Fan talk: Looking at Georgia-LSU from both sides

big bulldog head logoEarlier this week a Bulldog friend of mine who lives in Baton Rouge reported that Tiger fandom was sounding a bit cocky about Saturday’s game with Georgia. But wanting to introduce some genuine Cajun flavor into the proceedings, I went to my favorite LSU fan, Louis Mayeux, for his view of the SEC Championship.

“While I’m confident that my LSU Tigers will beat Georgia in the SEC Championship game Saturday,” he said, “one memorable bit of history reminds me that nothing is certain in college football. In the 2001 SEC Championship, an 8-3 LSU team found itself in the same underdog’s role as Georgia this year, with No. 2 Tennessee in LSU’s present overwhelming favorite’s spot. The Volunteers were expected to win handily and head to the BCS championship game. But rising young coach Nick Saban’s Tigers upset Philip Fulmer’s Vols. The memory of that great win, which marked the beginning of LSU’s recent rise to college football prominence, should keep Tiger fans from overconfidence.”

Of course, Louis said, “LSU defensive coach John Chavis, who had that same role with Tennessee in 2001, is probably telling his great defense about that game as a cautionary tale.”

Noting that Chavis has been telling folks all year that his Tigers — led by Mo Claiborne, Tyrann Matheiu, Sam Montgomery and sleek sack master Barkevious Mingo — are the most talented group he’s ever had, Louis declared: “I’ve been watching LSU football since about 1957, and this is the best team I’ve ever seen.”

Having already beaten nationally ranked Oregon, West Virginia, Alabama and Arkansas, wins over the Dogs in Atlanta and in the BCS game would see this Tiger team finish 14-0 and lay claim to being among the all-time best college teams ever.

But, Louis allowed, “although LSU has tremendous depth, size and speed, Georgia is a ‘quality opponent,’ as LSU coach Les Miles would say. The Dawgs have a shot if they can get something close to the running attack that Alabama produced against the Tigers in a 9-6 loss. Trent Richardson broke loose for some strong gains for the Crimson Tide in that game, and if Georgia freshman running back Isaiah Crowell has a strong performance, Georgia quarterback Aaron Murray will feel less pressure passing. Murray appears more dependable than the Tide’s A.J. McCarron. Georgia looks to have more offensive balance than Alabama and Arkansas. But to have a chance at winning, Georgia must do an adequate job protecting Murray and avoid turnovers.”

LSU Tigers logoNo argument there. And I really can’t dispute Louis’ assessment that “LSU looks to have a big edge, with its ball-hawking, big-play defense” and that the Tigers’ depth at running back and offensive line “will be a big challenge for the fine Georgia defensive line.”

As for Jordan Jefferson, now solidly established as the No. 1 LSU quarterback, Louis noted he “has greatly improved as a passer, but could get flustered into making mistakes if Georgia can get a strong pass rush. Jefferson’s running ability is an added challenge for the Dogs.”

And, he noted, LSU also boasts special-team strength, an area that tends to either be a strength or a disaster for Georgia.

Louis doesn’t think predictions that LSU will get a place in the BCS title game no matter what happens Saturday will impact his team’s play against Georgia. “I expect the Tigers to bring their best effort,” he said. “This team is too competitive and deep not to.”

Louis’ take on the game is pretty reasonable. Of course, these are college kids we’re talking about so anything can happen. But let’s be honest: If Georgia wins this game, it will be the biggest upset of the year.

That said, I think Mark Richt’s Dogs are fully capable of winning this game if they play up to their full potential. But in order for that to happen the defense must control the No. 1-ranked Tigers’ run game and force Jefferson to go to the air under pressure. Georgia can’t afford any turnovers (that’s frequently how LSU starts one of its quick scoring spurts) and the Dogs must win the takeaway battle. Offensively, Mike Bobo has to call probably the best game of his career (he’s shown recently against Auburn and Georgia Tech that he has it in him), the line must somehow keep Murray on his feet, and Georgia’s QB has to be on target against LSU’s sticky-fingered secondary. He won’t get away with any ill-advised throws against this group.

In other words, it’s going to take a nearly perfect day for UGA and probably even then a bit of luck or some sort of meltdown on LSU’s part. But that sort of turn of events isn’t a rarity in college football.

If it somehow happens at the Georgia Dome Saturday, there’s no doubt we’ll be calling this a game for the ages.

With that, let’s let some more Dawg fans in on the discussion via the Junkyard Mail. …

Rontavius Smith writes: Hey Bill, I personally believe that my Dawgs have more than a fighting chance. It just seems to me that since the media says UGA has no chance, everyone just follows that direction. What’s your take on it? Do you think that all the disrespect to the UGA team will be used by the players to propel them past LSU and throw the world into shock?

I’ve been extremely impressed with what I’ve seen of LSU this season so I don’t think you can write the consensus expectation of a Tiger win off to media hype. Like I said above, though, the Dogs certainly are capable of pulling it off. Would that be enough to win them the respect they crave? Probably not. I’m not even sure a win over LSU would get Georgia into the Top 10 of the polls at this point.

Andrew Smith writes: Hey Bill, a wise man once told me a football game hinges on two things. Can you run the ball? Can you stop the run? I think the LSU game will be no different. If we can control the line of scrimmage then we will be more balanced and most likely not turn it over. I’m not that concerned with LSU’s offense but more with how they have forced turnovers and made teams one-dimensional on offense. How about you? Do you think our O-line will show up for the entire game or be hit or miss like other games during this season?

I think your wise man is on the mark. The question is, even if our O-line plays its best, will it be enough against LSU’s terrific pass rush?

dchesh45 writes: I think it’s going to come down to the Dawgs’ offense. I think their D will make plays and keep the Dawgs in the game. However, if the O can’t capitalize, the Tigers will wear them down. Special teams will also be clutch. [Blair] Walsh and [Drew] Butler have to be relaxed and need to just forget about the regular season. If the D shows up, Murray plays like he’s been, and Crowell/Thomas/Harton/Malcome provide some sort of run game to keep us from being one-dimensional, the Dawgs have a legit chance of the unthinkable. Let’s get out there and GATA Dawgs!!! Sic em!

Woof!

Jeff Myers writes: A UGA win will include our best special teams game of the season. Not just punting and field goal kicking, but coverage teams as well. Our defense must continue its formula for success. We may not shut down the run, but we must stop it enough to force long passing downs. Look for LSU to pound the ball, like they have all year, to tire UGA out. Our offense must be patient, and creative. Bobo had some great play calls against Tech, and a similar plan will be needed. Also, LSU will stuff our run game at times, and we can not get frustrated, we have to run and run creatively. And [Georgia must] win the turnover battle. This will be the best team we have played this year, they will make plays, and we may face adversity. The team must stay positive, and play with the heart of an SEC champion.

That’s actually the one thing that makes me most optimistic, Jeff. This has been Richt’s most resilient team and they’ve shown a lot of heart this season.

Keith Miller writes: Bill, I love the blog. I have a question that I’d love for all SEC fans to think about. First I’d like to say I love my Dawgs. Next I think LSU and Bama have been the best we have this year. But Bama lost, just like South Carolina. Why do we have a SEC championship game? To have a clear “best of the SEC.” We all say, coaches and fans alike, “we want to win the SEC, that’s our biggest goal.” Have we let the BCS nullify our champion? … How can we send any team that didn’t win its division and conference to represent us in a title game? I hated that our Dawgs didn’t go in ’07, but if they had played better early on … well we all know. My point is this: Champions are made of hard work and luck, and most of all a will to win in the games that matter most. What game is bigger than the SEC championship game? GO DAWGS, beat LSU!!

It’s a quirky system that doesn’t always see the best two teams in the BCS championship game, but think of it this way: If Georgia somehow wins, the SEC will probably get three teams into the BCS bowls — the Dawgs in the Sugar and LSU and Bama in the title game. From a conference standpoint, that would be pretty awesome.

Finally, Paula Bechtler writes: Hi Bill! I assume the Dawg Walk will take place Saturday inside the SEC Fan Fest at the Georgia World Congress Center — is that right? Do you know what time? Go Dawgs!

I put the question to UGA sports info guru Claude Felton, who reports: “No Dawg Walk this week, I’m afraid. Due to team entry locations, security and logistical issues, SEC guidelines do not provide for any special walks for either participating team.” However, pep rallies for fans of both schools are planned between 1:30 and 2:30 p.m. Saturday at the SEC FanFare in the Georgia World Congress Center. Admission to the FanFare (which runs 1-6 p.m. Friday and 9 a.m. to 4 p.m. Saturday) costs $10 for adults. Kids under age 12 can get in free on Friday and for $5 Saturday. By the way, gates to the Georgia Dome open at 2 p.m. Saturday. Also Saturday, Scott Woerner continues his string of public appearances promoting the “1980 Dawgs” DVD set. He’ll be greeting fans and signing autographs across from Centennial Olympic Park at the corner of Marietta Street and Centennial Olympic Park Drive from 5 to 9 p.m. Friday and 10 a.m. to 3 p.m. Saturday.

Geaux Dawgs!

Got a question for the Junkyard Blawg? Send it to junkyardblawg@gmail.com.

Find me on Facebook.

Follow me on Twitter.

— Bill King, Junkyard Blawg

321 comments Add your comment

old dog

December 2nd, 2011
10:56 am

AltamahaDawg,
Ain’t no doubt he is injured now…..but you must not have been watching the whole season. I.C. cannot (or will not; I ain’t sure which) take much contact!! Of course Dawg fans want a victory, and Boo AT least will take a lick. You can study any other team you want…..its an established fact that they all know (from study, etc.) if they pop I.C., he ain’t stayin’! Not doggin’ the kid, just statin’ the obvious! We gotta have running figured PROMINENTLY, and you can’t plan on I.C. with LSU’s defense….period! So, lets let Boo, Figgins, and others figure into the fact that we will have to have a respectable run-game and make it happen! (Plan an SEC game around the freshman this year and see whatcha get!!) We can beat them with a good ground game, though!!

Joey

December 2nd, 2011
10:57 am

So Bill, your friend Louis is telling us that we have a chance?

Yeaaaah!

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=dumb+and+dumber+quote+so+you‘re+saying+there’s+chance&mid=3888C83404DCF8A80DA83888C83404DCF8A80DA8&view=detail&FORM=VIRE2#

Dave

December 2nd, 2011
10:57 am

What is the rumor about Crowell? I haven’t heard anything. This is all news to me.

ChicagoDAWG

December 2nd, 2011
10:58 am

If your going to be the RB everyone wants you to become this is the type game you can get “Herchel Walker status”. Otherwise you may begin to fall into the category of the other overrated RB from Columbus. (ie Jasper Sanks)

KentuckyDawg

December 2nd, 2011
11:00 am

This year’s Georgia Bulldogs are for real, with more HEART than any team in the land. With or without Crowell we will win tomorrow and for years to come. Let’s talk up our players and couches. To hell with LSU!!!

KentuckyDawg

December 2nd, 2011
11:00 am

This year’s Georgia Bulldogs are for real, with more HEART than any team in the land. With or without Crowell we will win tomorrow and for years to come. Let’s talk up our players and couches. To h*ll with LSU!!!

Joey

December 2nd, 2011
11:06 am

“The Dawgs have a shot if they can get something close to the running attack that Alabama produced against the Tigers in a 9-6 loss”
************************************************
What, 96 yds is a “running attack?”

The whole thing on offense depends on whether Bobo/Richt show Chavis some new stuff. He’s had our number for quite a while.

If we start hurting LSU with short passes to our tight ends, then we may run the ball some with success – between the tackles because LSU is too fast to go outside – ask Bama.

Macon Dawg

December 2nd, 2011
11:07 am

What is the rumor about Crowell, still nursing the injury, or dicipline issue?

Learn to spell

December 2nd, 2011
11:10 am

Not a chance in H311 will Georgia win!!!

Joshua

December 2nd, 2011
11:13 am

The key to Georgia having a chance will be sustaining drives. LSU is a defense that has been real consistent all year. They have not had any real spectacular games like Georgia with many negative rushing yards. However, they consistently give up around 85-100. They only give up about 150-200 passing yards. They give up some yardage, but not a whole lot. They make their living off of forcing turnovers, and keeping people out of the end zone. they have a little bend, but they never break. Their offense is big and strong, and since Jefferson is back, they don’t throw much. They don’t worry about scoring. They just beat you in the ground and wear you down, so they can take over late in the game. If Georgia can sustain drives and keep the defense off of the field as much as possible, we will be able to hang with them. LSU also does a lot of damage with a short field, so Drew Butler could come up big. Another plus for Georgia is that we will be the first team that LSU has played that has multiple big physical receivers that like to take the ball, instead of catching it in space. This could be a game of rock em sock em robots, and the winner will be the last one standing.

ChicagoDAWG

December 2nd, 2011
11:15 am

Don’t quote me…. but I heard Crowell is not really hurt, but just soft………….

Cuz

December 2nd, 2011
11:16 am

Don’t worry about internet rumors regarding Crow-ell. If we rely on one player to win this game for us, we have lost already.

CHDawg

December 2nd, 2011
11:17 am

LSU does have a great team this year (the best ever imo), and they are correctly favored over our Dawgs, but one thing I have learned from reading these blogs–predictions are a waste of server memory; you are getting into God’s business there. It is hard to add to what has been said, except that Murray is a real key for me. If he is on, as he usually is, and we can protect him, I think we score a lot of points. If he gets consistently pounded, hurried, or he is injured, it could get ugly. The one thing that hasn’t been talked about much is who rises to the occasion in the big game. This is the kind of game that can bring a whole new level of play out of some players, so we will see how they respond. There is a point where a Walker or a Tebow becomes a legend, and games like tomorrow’s are often the catalyst. So we will see who steps up and who doesn’t–be they Dawgs or Tigers. Go Dawgs.

Dave

December 2nd, 2011
11:20 am

OK…last time…rumors about Crowell….anyone with any news?

CHDawg

December 2nd, 2011
11:24 am

One other point about Crowell. The Dawgs can play well with or without him. If he is healthy and ready, then obviously we are better. The problem is the distraction of everybody talking about his attitude and availability. There are a lot of great athletes on UGA and giving Crowell 30% of the press is distracting. Let him fade into the background and we will see what he can do. I don’t care if he loafs on his windsprints. That is something for the staff and team to work on–if he can go out and do his job while running hard and not fumbling, then he has time to work on being perfect everywhere else. If he has a bad attitude and it shows up tomorrow on the field, then let’s get some of the other TBs in there. Bottom line is the attention distracts–let the team and staff deal with it.

ARdawg

December 2nd, 2011
11:25 am

Good post Joshua

They are extremely physical. It’s their bread and butter. Live by physicality, die by physicality. It is just as tiring to run all over the field hitting people as it is to be hit. My point here is, they can be worn down also. The question is can we man up? I think so. We have depth enough to go with this team for 4 quarters. Keeping our offense on the field wears that defense down. Be patient, let the offensive opportunities develop but don’t shy away from a big play opp

mars

December 2nd, 2011
11:26 am

At best, Mark Richt has proven himself to be an underachiever. Kirby Smart will one day go to be HC at a University and provide them with multiple national championships, while Mark Richt will grow complacent after the smoke clears, and provide a passable effort at best that includes zero national championships. That ship sailed when Stafford and Moreno left town after falling victim to our coaches poor decisions. And let’s not forget our spurning of Cam Newton. Richt and Bobo determined that he would never be a capable quarterback, and passed on him.
Of course Richt rose to the occasion with his job on the line. The talent has always been here, and he is a capable coach…when the notion takes him. Don’t let the warm fuzzies this underachiever has given us prevent us from acquiring a workaholic coach intent on continued success, and an actual challenge to Nick Saban, which Richt will never be. He’s a good man and I wish him well wherever he goes, as long as he goes.

Class of '98

December 2nd, 2011
11:27 am

Oklahoma State losing to Iowa State was a much bigger upset than UGA beating LSU. The point spread was more than double.

GO DAWGS

1+2=1+2

December 2nd, 2011
11:30 am

If USC can beat Oregon and jump into the top ten, then Georgia ranked 14th, beating the #1 team, should easily jump into the top ten.

Joey

December 2nd, 2011
11:32 am

If Ogletree and Co can stuff LSU’s running game and force Jefferson to pass, we can keep it close.

BMDPD

December 2nd, 2011
11:32 am

Dave, the rumor was a bad attitude rumor at practice. That’s all.

LouisianaDawg

December 2nd, 2011
11:34 am

Throw the ball. I read that UGA averages 71 plays per game. We should toss it 45 times. That is the only way to open up the running game. Quick scores will keep our D on the field. LSU offense is not a quick strike. They run up the score with defense scoring off turnovers and special teams. It may sound odd, but we need to keep there defense on the sideline.

ARdawg

December 2nd, 2011
11:34 am

Good post Joshua

They are extremely physical. It’s their bread and butter. Live by physicality, die by physicality. It is just as tiring to run all over the field hitting people as it is to be hit. My point here is, they can be worn down also. The question is can we man up? I think so. We have depth enough to go with this team for 4 quarters. Keeping our offense on the field wears that defense down. Be patient, let the offensive opportunities develop but don’t shy away from a big play opportunity

JDawg1785

December 2nd, 2011
11:36 am

Bill, your friend Louis is right. This is not only the best LSU team ever, but maybe even one of the best college football teams ever. The way LSU has taken care of business this season is impressive, to say the least. They have a great team this season, but so did the New England Patriots in 2008. Who on earth picked the Giants to win that Super Bowl?

I’m not too convinced that the Dawgs will win this game, but crazier things have happened. Will be cheering my heart out regardless. GEAUX DAWGS!

ARdawg

December 2nd, 2011
11:36 am

Bill King

Guy, your filters make it much too tough to posts.

|ll|ill|lilli|||lil|

December 2nd, 2011
11:36 am

You delusional UGA fans never cease to amaze me. I’m no fan of the corndog-scented team from Satan’s Crotch, LA…..but you have to admit that UGA doesn’t have a chance in hell. THey backed into the SEC champ game because face it….the SEC East was CRAP this year. Quality win over Coastal Carolina?

ARdawg

December 2nd, 2011
11:38 am

More hatred from the peanut gallery of Tech haterz and posers

GATA

December 2nd, 2011
11:38 am

We lost to the only two “quality” teams we played. We arrived at the Dome based on an extremely weak conference schedule against at least three teams in a rebuilding phase. No way we would be here had we played Bama or LSU or were Florida, Auburn, and Tennessee up to par. Crowell can’t handle the defenese he’s seen to date; no way he even attempts to hold up against LSU. Murray will be running for his life, I’m afraid. Maybe I’m just too doubtful but that’s the way I see it.

ChicagoDAWG

December 2nd, 2011
11:38 am

Thanks BMDPD, and @Mars that statement you just made needs to be put on a bulletin board. I hope we as Dawg fans let this temporary high, blind us from what is really going on. We continue to lose top in state recruits, as well as the rest of the SEC is racking up NC’s. Again…. we have to stop settling for MEDOCRICY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! message me @ hirekirbysmart.com

S/O to Russ

December 2nd, 2011
11:39 am

The best interim mascot the Dawg nation could ask for..Congrats on your 1st complete season Big Dawg!

TampaDawg

December 2nd, 2011
11:43 am

@mars=lifetime dawg “And let’s not forget our spurning of Cam Newton. Richt and Bobo determined that he would never be a capable quarterback, and passed on him.”

Let’s also not forget that MOST teams saw him as a tight end

http://msn.foxsports.com/collegefootball/story/Cam-Newton-from-high-energy-kid-to-Auburn-Heisman-winning-quarterback-010911

And as aptly pointed out in the story, sCam went to UF FIRST, not Auburn, not Miss State, UF and was kicked from the school altogether for theft and cheating academically. And that’s tough to do at UF, getting kicked out anyway.

HENRY

December 2nd, 2011
11:46 am

LSU 36
GA 17

Vince Drooley

December 2nd, 2011
11:47 am

The SECC is the “Who Cares” Bowl. LSU is going to the NC game regardless of the outcome and Georgia will, as usual, watch another SEC team bring home the crystal ball. It’s hard being a Georgia fan when all of your biggest opponents are winning the crystal and all you can do is sit back and watch and yell “Wait til next year.”

sting'um

December 2nd, 2011
11:48 am

KJ

December 2nd, 2011
11:49 am

|ll|ill|lilli|||lil|… is that Elvish? Yeah, obvious NATS troll.

SEC East >>>> Entire All Cupcakes Conference

ARdawg

December 2nd, 2011
11:49 am

Who is Tech playing this weekend? Anybody?

ARdawg

December 2nd, 2011
11:51 am

Oh that’s right, they are not playing this weekend. That’s Clemson and VT. Who does Tech get in the Belk Bowl? ECU or Coastal Carolina?

|ll|ill|lilli|||lil|

December 2nd, 2011
11:52 am

Elvish has left the building

Dave

December 2nd, 2011
11:52 am

Unbelievable, UGA has a turnaround from 0-2, wins 10 straight games, gets to the SEC Championship Game and some of the navel lint people on here are STILL not happy. You people are a really bad rash on any fan base.

Red Stick

December 2nd, 2011
11:54 am

ARdawg

December 2nd, 2011
10:45 am

“LSU isn’t the greatest team in college football history. They are beatable and will be beaten at some point. It just as well be here and now. They are not invincible.”

I think any reasonable Tiger fan would acknowledge that we are not invincible. The Dawgs are very capable of winning. Yet if LSU plays like it has then the Tigers will win hands down. LSU is just that good.

I think any fan base would be confident if their team was 12-0. There have been many Dawg fans on the blogs this week just as confident in many posts as we are. I think that’s just human nature.

If the Tigers somehow win the next 2 games it’s arguable that LSU may not be one of the greatest teams of all time. However there would be no disputing with the schedule and off the field issues, this would be one of the great seasons by any college team.

That said, LSU has to win tomorrow first and that is not a given. Contrary to what some UGA fans have posted, I would be very surprised if LSU is not ready to play tomorrow. This team is hungry and doubt they think they can win this game by not playing at an exceptional level.

I expect it to be a close game.

Geaux Tigers
Go SEC

RM

December 2nd, 2011
11:54 am

Dogs will have a chance if:
1. They fire the quarterback
2. They fire the coach

ChicagoDAWG

December 2nd, 2011
11:55 am

Although several Dawg fans are elated about playing in this game saturday, and having a fighters chance. Their are several fans that are a little discouraged because they know CMR will be back another year. Me being one of them. Great guy, but I’m just sick of other schools gathering NC”s while we say “wait til next year”

Grinch

December 2nd, 2011
11:56 am

Some of the morons on this blog wouldn’t be happy until UGA wins the National Championship every year and then the first game we lost, you want the coach’s head. I wish you would go away and support some other team….really, I do…..

Grinch

December 2nd, 2011
11:59 am

RM…..here’s your sign…..IDIOT

Bad Leroy Brown

December 2nd, 2011
12:03 pm

Well said Red Stick.

I hope it’s a good game and everyone knows LSU is an exceptional team.

You have definitely earned the highest respect this year!

Hopefully we can earn some too.

Go Dawgs!!!

ARdawg

December 2nd, 2011
12:03 pm

Red Stick

Thank you for the well thought out and insightful post.

I have no doubt and you will find few Georgia fans who believe only for a second that LSU doesn’t come to play and win. The NC is important but so is the SECC. Your guys are good and it is an exceptional team. Most UGA fans will give you all the kudos in the world. You’ve earned them. Few outside the state of Georgia believe the Bulldogs have a chance. We’ve been here before, LSU and UGA. We think we have more than a shot of knocking you guys off. Georgia expects a hard fought slugfest. We’re up for it. Good luck to you and your guys and regardless, enjoy the game and whip Bama for the second time.

ChicagoDAWG

December 2nd, 2011
12:04 pm

That is an unrealistic expectation to win NC’s every year. On the contrary to ask for just one NC during the time 4 other schools have won one and and about to be 2 schools have won 2 NC’s. All during the tenure of our current coach. That is just an observation…………………..

Relentless Pursuit

December 2nd, 2011
12:06 pm

I just hope the team and coaches are more prepared than the first game.

Cuz is 100% right, depending on a single player is a trip to nowhere. I very skeptical that the offensive line can control the line of scrimmage against LSU. There’s a very slim chance of winning this one, LSU is much better this year than in 2005.

Regardless, it’s still better than being South Carolina. Their constant whining about losing the East reminds me of those horns during the World Cup…annoying.

I like Georgia’s prospects next season.. Competitive in the East again.

Joey

December 2nd, 2011
12:06 pm

Red Stick, if this LSU team does win out, it will have to be recognized as one of the top teams ever. I can’t recall any team in the past 30+ years beating so many teams that are still highly ranked.

Your ‘07 team didn’t impress me that much, but this one sure has.

ARdawg

December 2nd, 2011
12:08 pm

Red Stick

Make no mistake, we aim to give your boys something to take to bama 8)