Is raiding the ACC still a possibility for the SEC?
I was talking conference expansion yesterday with a Georgia fan who posited that the ACC upping its exit fee to $20 million pretty much kills any chance of the SEC getting Virginia Tech or FSU or Clemson.
Looks like we’ll end up with West Virginia or Missouri, he said, noting that he didn’t view Texas A&M and Missouri/West Virginia as adding much luster to the SEC, though the conference did enter this expansion mess in a stronger position than any other league, in terms of football (which is what’s driving all this change).
A couple of thoughts about all that. First, the only ACC team that’s made any noise at all about studying possible realignment is FSU, and while their president obviously was among those voting unanimously to increase the exit fee, that doesn’t necessarily mean Florida State might not still find it worth its while to pay the $20 million in order to join the SEC. I can’t really see any of the other ACC schools, like Clemson, paying that fee, though.
Whether or not there was a rumored “gentlemen’s agreement” in the past for the SEC not to add teams in states where a conference member already resides — and there’ve been reports there never was any such agreement — FSU would certainly add to the SEC’s TV star power, even if it wouldn’t bring in a new television market. And it would counter the addition of Texas A&M geographically.
But while Missouri might not seem all that sexy a choice from a fan point of view, it would bring the St. Louis and Kansas City TV markets with it, and that would also be pretty attractive to the SEC. Auburn could move over to the SEC East to balance the divisons, thereby also assuring the Deep South’s Oldest Rivalry with Georgia continues to be an every-year affair.
West Virginia? Aside from being competitive on the football field, the SEC adding a program that the ACC didn’t want, and which brings very little in terms of TV reach, would justifiably seem like an also-ran choice.
Really, I think most of the SEC would have preferred to keep the status quo, but that has become impossible in the face of all the other changes going on.
So, best-case scenario, to me, is adding Texas A&M and FSU or Missouri.
Feel free to share your own views on SEC expansion.
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657 comments Add your comment
bitter hershaldontavious-cesar walker
September 20th, 2011
2:38 pm
bring i boise st———– and utah st ——and SMU———and—-GT——thats my 4
Aurelius
September 20th, 2011
2:38 pm
Notre Dame to the ACC is handicapped by the NBC-ND football nerwork. Probably will not happen.
VT and UVa are joined at the hip by the Virginia legislature. Both or none. Virginia’s oldest rival is North Carolina. VT and UVa are in the ACC, period.
West Virginia has made inquiries to the ACC office. Not sure if they have called the SEC.
UConn would be a great addition to the ACC. They are next door neighbors to ESPN and have a huge TV market.
Rutgers is across the river from NY State and NYC. Again a huge TV market.
Missouri is a geographic fit for the SEC with Missouri bordering Arkansas, Tennessee and Kentucky. Look at a map!
And Missouri would boost the academic image of the SEC.
Texas A&M has already been extended the invite by the SEC. So we are looking for team 14. First get team 14.
Then we can look at 15 and 16. But are 15 & 16 really needed? The SEC has the top football product in the nation. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.
GT Joe
September 20th, 2011
2:38 pm
Truedawg: hate to burst your bubble about the SEC. But with ND and Penn State, the ACC would be the most desirable conference in america for recruits. The Golden Dome? Happy Valley? Miami, FSU, Clemson? Pitt? Who wouldn’t want to play at these places?
The ACC would be a conference with NATIONAL following, unlike the SEC’s regional following. And it IS regional. Go outside the South, nobody cares about the SEC.
Tigerfan91
September 20th, 2011
2:39 pm
Missouri fought for the Confederacy and border three SEC states. I’d consider that “the South”
James
September 20th, 2011
2:40 pm
West Virginia would be a good fit for the SEC – both academically and as yet another place where cousins marry each other.
duronimo
September 20th, 2011
2:40 pm
What I can’t figure out is why Texas & Oklahoma would want to be part of the PAC. There are no natural rivals and they are a long way from the West Coast. There are the makings of a great conference in the middle of the country … but wait …. I guess Texas messed that up.
GeoffDawg
September 20th, 2011
2:41 pm
GT Joe, that’s easy to say since you’ve not been invited. Let’s not forget that after Dodd laid that that egg by leaving the conference, tech later tried to get back in. Feel free to delude yourself but do you really think the typical tech fan would prefer to play Maryland and NCSt. on a weekly basis over Florida and Tennessee? That’s foolish.
Beyond that, this talk about cultural fits is a coward’s way of congratulating yourself for being perennially second best. “Well, we can’t compete but at least we fit together…” Tell you a secret chum, Georgia and Florida don’t have a whole lot in common with Miss St. and Arkansas other than a passionate fanbase that loves to compete.
Chris
September 20th, 2011
2:42 pm
Penn State isn’t leaving the Big Ten. Stop reading Fox Sports columnists.
Still@theBAR
September 20th, 2011
2:42 pm
GATOR MIKE
i said ND like 3 hours ago and the ACC and Notre Dame have already talked according to some. Notre Dame would never NEVER lower it’s Academic standards to be in the SEC. It is the ACC or Big10 only.
Chris
September 20th, 2011
2:42 pm
Geography apparently is an elective on the Plains.
Dawg Tired
September 20th, 2011
2:44 pm
How ironic. The ACC steals Pitt and Syracuse from the Big East, all the folks in the ACC part of the country brag, celebrate and sing praises for this “great accomplishment” without one word about how this might be the wrong way to do business. Then, on the same day, they up their own exit fee to a staggering $20,000,000! So they do really understand that teams getting taken away from their own conference is a bad thing while it is apparently a good thing for them to steal teams from someone else’s conference. Unbelievable.
GeoffDawg
September 20th, 2011
2:45 pm
GT Joe, having a good run in the 70’s doesn’t make them a storied program. And when’s the last time they did anything of note?
I actually can’t believe though that you put another team above tech. I’ll have to check ESPN to see if the Cubs just won the World Series.
GT Joe
September 20th, 2011
2:45 pm
Geoff, you sure like ancient history. Just like all UGA and SEC fans.
Wake up, it’s 2011. No one cares about Tech leaving the SEC in 1960 whatever.
With ND and Penn State (and PSU would love to join the ACC, it’s not a midwest school, geographically and culturally), the ACC is king of college football and basketball.
SEC is becoming regional and irrelevant. Pac-12 and ACC are leaving them.
not going anywhere
September 20th, 2011
2:45 pm
The ACC wont be “raided” by the SEC because the SEC really cant offer anything that makes it worth leaving to any of the member schools. I know its hard for SEC fans to understand, but ACC members are not dying to get into your conference. We may not currently be the best football conference, but our schools are a solid group of academically similar schools who have members with numerous national championships in the two most important sports. As everyone knows, we are also a superpower in basketball and this sport brings in a lot of money to ESPN. By getting PITT and Syracuse, the ACC made sure that the league would be assured a spot at the table as one of the mega conferences. WVU got rejected by the SEC and ACC…sucks for them. I hope we can add Notre Dame, Penn State, and/or UConn. That would tie things ups nicely.
Delbert D.
September 20th, 2011
2:46 pm
Let’s think about basketball for a minute. The NCAA owns the TV rights to the NCAA Tournament. They share a portion of that money among Div 1 schools. They keep the rest (as the do with merchandising rights to school jerseys, players’ likenesses (EA Sports game). When the NCAA suddenly experiences an exodus of 64 schools in the 4 soon-to-be superconferences, those schools will cut out the NCAA middleman and directly receive the TV revenues for their participation in the new Superconference Collegiate Basketball Tournament. That’s $771 million in TV revenue directly, not shared with the behemoth that the NCAA has become and split into small shares.
Florida Gator
September 20th, 2011
2:47 pm
While program quality matters, the SEC is more interested in TV markets. That’s why Missouri (the Kansas City and St. Louis markets) is more likely than better programs at FSU and WVU.
Chris
September 20th, 2011
2:47 pm
‘PSU would love to join the ACC’
Because anyone, ever, has said that before today. Stop dreaming.
GeoffDawg
September 20th, 2011
2:47 pm
And GT Joe, Uconn went to the BCS because the Big East is an AQ conference. It’s still Big East and now partially ACC football, so it doesn’t mean much. How’d they do in that game BTW?
ramblingbuzz
September 20th, 2011
2:48 pm
Dawg Tired – What’s ironic is that you would bash the ACC when the SEC/TxAM has been in the works for quite a while. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.
GT Joe
September 20th, 2011
2:48 pm
Pitt not a storied program? 9 time national champions Pitt? Come on.
Obnoxious
September 20th, 2011
2:49 pm
Please, folks, try to remember that an individual is not an ‘alumni,’ but rather an alumnus if male or an alumna if female. If you can’t remember the distinctions, just call yourself an ‘alum,’ a perfectly acceptable abbreviation. An individual calling himself an alumni just reinforces the stereotypical image of southern ignorance.
USMC
September 20th, 2011
2:51 pm
I am not saying that Missouri wouldn’t fit into SEC well, but GT AND Clemmons would be a MUCH better fit.jmo
Delbert D.
September 20th, 2011
2:52 pm
Read the previous posts before you chime in. CBS sports has announced that West Virginia has been rejected by both the SEC and ACC.
Chris
September 20th, 2011
2:53 pm
We should forget what happened with Tech in 1960, but national championships from the 20s and 30s are relevant. Understood.
Delbert D.
September 20th, 2011
2:53 pm
“The NCAA today is in many ways a classic cartel. Efforts to reform it—most notably by the three Knight Commissions over the course of 20 years—have, while making changes around the edges, been largely fruitless. The time has come for a major overhaul. And whether the powers that be like it or not, big changes are coming. Threats loom on multiple fronts: in Congress, the courts, breakaway athletic conferences, student rebellion, and public disgust. Swaddled in gauzy clichés, the NCAA presides over a vast, teetering glory.”
Atlantic Magazine, October 2011
GT Joe
September 20th, 2011
2:53 pm
Penn State has been rumored to have interest in the ACC for years. Especially when they moved to the Big 10.
FYI, alumni bases for PSU and ND are concentrated on the east coast, MD, DC, VA, NY/NJ, and FL.
It is the most logical move for both.
GeoffDawg
September 20th, 2011
2:54 pm
GT Joe – ancient history? You’re the one spouting off about Pitt improving your football. I’ll ask you again, when’s the last time they did anything of note? And don’t mention anything about the BCS. The BCS being forced to include the Big East champ is a joke.
Half Century Dawg
September 20th, 2011
2:55 pm
GT Joe, why would Penn State leave the Big 10 for the ACC?
Delbert D.
September 20th, 2011
2:56 pm
UConn is not in the ACC. Not yet.
Rojer
September 20th, 2011
2:57 pm
Dont think Pitt and Syr diminish ACC football. Pitt is generally solid and Syr has a good tradition and significant success in the 90s. More recent history has been poor but they have definitely made strides since 5 years ago and would be surprised at all to see them at a bowl level (not saying much) almost immediately.
Also, SEC football hasnt been that great for the past couple years. There are bad programs in the SEC and has been like ACC basketball recently… top heavy and generally overrated.
SEC cant last long with an odd number of teams and I doubt they get an ACC team in the short term. ACC and Big Ten will wait on ND. Would have said Clemson and FSU last week but that ship has sailed. The NC teams are not in the discussion and UVA and VT have left the dock too. So my guess is WVU for the SEC.
Big Dirty Dawg
September 20th, 2011
2:57 pm
Tech fans just dont get it!! Especially at the Bar!! Ramble Ramble Blah Blah is all they post!!
GeoffDawg
September 20th, 2011
2:58 pm
BTW – the AP lists them only twice. Just about any program that’s been around for awhile can rattle off a plethora of national titles from various publications. It’s hard to give much credence to titles outside of the modern era. Heck, it’s been hard to give much credence to titles in the modern era either. That’s more of a playoff topic though.
Jeff
September 20th, 2011
2:58 pm
FSU REALLY!? Why would the SEC want FSU? The only thing they have going for them is really name recognition. Other than that they don’t bring anything to the SEC! They would only add to the recruiting competition in Florida. Do you really think SEC schools besides the Gators want to have more competition for recruiting the rich state of Florida! Do you think they would want to have to try to steal recruits from two monster programs in state? Florida already holds and brings a very big viewing market in the state! The SEC would be better off helping pay off VT’s exit fee, and bring them in. They have the same name recognition, and bring in a great new big market!
GT Joe
September 20th, 2011
2:58 pm
Half Century: PSU sees itself as an East coast team, not a midwest team. Joining the ACC gets them better recruiting footholds in the south, down to FL. The east coast markets are growing, the south is growing, the midwest is dead. PSU has a rival in the ACC (Pitt), and now ACC basketball is THE powerhouse.
Gator Mike
September 20th, 2011
2:59 pm
Still @ the Bar, excuse me for not noting that you first brought up ND.
The academic group I addressed is the Association of American Universities. The criteria is stif in demanding academic and research excellence. The membership is limited. UF and Vandy are members. Every school in the Big 10 (with 12 teams) is a member except Nebraska which recently lost its membership. ND is not a qualifying member of the group. The ACC schools in the group are Duke, UVA, UNC and GT(as of April 2010.
We all know that most football & basketball players at most schools (regardless of the universities academic prowess)are not scholars – UF included. Thus, I do not believe all of the academic hogwash being tossed out there about ND and the ACC. If you want to talk academics, it looks like the Big 10 may be tops, but they also have a lot of academic midgets on their teams.
Is the bar still open?? I need a drink.
Delbert D.
September 20th, 2011
2:59 pm
This except is under the heading, “Picayune Rules”
“The publicized cases have become convoluted soap operas. At the start of the 2010 football season, A. J. Green, a wide receiver at Georgia, confessed that he’d sold his own jersey from the Independence Bowl the year before, to raise cash for a spring-break vacation. The NCAA sentenced Green to a four-game suspension for violating his amateur status with the illicit profit generated by selling the shirt off his own back. While he served the suspension, the Georgia Bulldogs store continued legally selling replicas of Green’s No. 8 jersey for $39.95 and up.”
Nothing new to us, but it’s now a national issue.
Atlantic Magazine, October 2011
SEC_Fan
September 20th, 2011
3:00 pm
The SEC has no need to expand. TAMU wants in, and I have no problem with that. If any other quality programs want in, then they should be given the proper consideration. Missouri is now making noise about coming to the SEC, but I don’t see the value in adding Missouri. I’ve spent time there and I know that CFB is insignificant in MO. What’s the value in picking up television coverage in a state that has no interest in CFB?
All of this talk about 4 super-conferences is a pipe dream. It’s not going to happen. Let the loser conferences brag about their academic prowess and scramble around to try to make themselves competitive. The SEC is the premiere CFB conference, and they don’t need to add anyone to maintain that position. One more school to balance the addition of TAMU makes sense — but not Missouri.
Chris
September 20th, 2011
3:00 pm
They wouldn’t. Take geography out of it (and it’s a minimal argument anyway now that Nebraska is in the conference), and there’s no logic at all.
The markets that PSU alums would be in, the ACC already has. It would really only be a name. And what would PSU give up? Participation in a very lucrative conference with a very successful network. They originally wanted to be in the Big East before they joined the Big Ten. Any ACC rumors are, and have always been unsubstantiated.
ahsoisee
September 20th, 2011
3:01 pm
Personally, I would like to see a swap of Miami to the SEC and South Carolina to the ACC. This would group the distance of the Southern ACC teams a little closer.
I am opposed to bringing teams in that are not geographically part of the Atlantic Coastal States. Pittsburgh and Syracuse are good geographical fits for the ACC. I would not be opposed to bringing UCF into the ACC, as this would continue to give us presence for recruiting in Florida. The University of Central Florida appear to be serious in their attempt to become a strong D1 team.
I do not want any team that is not on the Eastern Coastal areas to be allowed into the ACC, this includes Texas, Oklahoma, etal. As money tightens in the future, travel expenses will become more important to all schools.
With the addition of Pittsburg and Syracuse, we should have a strong presence of competition in the Northern part of the ACC and the distance is not prohibitive for them. Also, we would have a strong grouping of teams in the Southern half with the North Carolina teams, S.C, Georgia, and Florida teams.
Since there are few games between the two halves of the conference, travel distance would be kept at a minimum and traditional competition at a maximum. If the playoffs were always in Charlotte, then the playoff game would also be manageable.
Other possibilities of emerging football programs are Connecticut, Rutgers, and Navy if they can keep good coaches. Even though Navy will probably never be able to recruit the caliber of players similar to the other schools, they do bring a presence to all stadiums for those who have served in the Navy.
The Old Man
ramblingbuzz
September 20th, 2011
3:03 pm
This is a pretty good thread even if it is on a dog blawg.
AM
September 20th, 2011
3:04 pm
Better Fit ECU. NC+VA Market and ability to upgrade to 75, 80 K stadium. Football and Baseball tradition nuff said
GT Joe
September 20th, 2011
3:05 pm
Chris, PSU is huge in the NY NJ market, which the ACC doesn’t have.
GT Joe
September 20th, 2011
3:06 pm
Ok Geoff, Pitt has done nothing recently. Neither has ND, but everyone wants them (except for idiot SEC folks).
USMC
September 20th, 2011
3:07 pm
As a UGA fan/SEC member school, I hope that the SEC remembers the old slogan:
“Pigs get fat and Hogs get slaughtered.”
Chris
September 20th, 2011
3:08 pm
Rutgers takes care of the NY NJ market by itself, and is by far the more logical choice. PSU is, by all accounts, happy in the Big Ten. Rutgers wants into the ACC. Ass UConn, and that’s a fantastic conference.
GT Joe
September 20th, 2011
3:09 pm
Rutgers is good at nothing. Thats the problem with rutgers.
GeoffDawg
September 20th, 2011
3:10 pm
GT Joe, that goes back to the bottom-line of this entire conversation – money. Notre Dame commands a lot of it. Pitt does not. They come from an attractive TV market but not one that places much emphasis on college sports.
Chris
September 20th, 2011
3:10 pm
ECU? Really? For who, the Big East?
I lived in Greenville for two years. It’s not a fit in a major conference.
Delbert D.
September 20th, 2011
3:10 pm
Remember th A.J. Green situation? This is unbelievable:
“At an April hearing in a U.S. District Court in California, Gregory Curtner, a representative for the NCAA, stunned O’Bannon’s lawyers by saying: “There is no document, there is no substance, that the NCAA ever takes from the student-athletes their rights of publicity or their rights of likeness. They are at all times owned by the student-athlete.” Jon King says this is “like telling someone they have the winning lottery ticket, but by the way, it can only be cashed in on Mars.” The court denied for a second time an NCAA motion to dismiss the O’Bannon complaint.”
Same source I’ve been quoting.
Chantacleer
September 20th, 2011
3:11 pm
Is raiding the SEC still a possibility for the ACC ?