Does an expanded SEC without a Texas school make sense?

sec logoI’ve said before here that I don’t think the SEC should consider adding teams unless it expands its geographic (read: television) footprint — specifically, into the state of Texas.

It only makes sense to add teams in states where the SEC already has members if you’re filling out a 16-team league that has expanded the conference’s borders. Sure, a Clemson or Florida State would be a good match in terms of tradition and on-field product for the existing SEC membership, but the conference wouldn’t gain much in terms of market reach by adding them, although the Seminoles are a big-name program with a national profile.

However, if Texas and Texas A&M really do join a mass exodus of six programs from the Big 12 to the PAC 10, as has been rumored — and that’s a mighty big if, I think, where the Longhorns and Aggies are concerned — Mike Slive and the SEC presidents are going to be under increasing pressure to react.

(I still think that if it’s apparent the Big 12 is falling apart, Texas and/or Texas A&M might find the financial setup of the SEC, where teams can sell their own ancillary media rights to supplement the CBS/ESPN deal, more attractive than the sort of league-takes-all arrangement they’ll likely see in the PAC.)

If the Texas schools do go to the PAC, though, might the SEC still expand its geographic reach by peeling Virginia Tech away from the ACC? Does the new, richer TV deal the ACC recently signed mean it will be more difficult to lure the Hokies or Clemson or FSU into the SEC? If so, where else might the conference look?

Finally, does the SEC even need to expand, no matter what other conferences do? A good case can be made that standing pat with the 12 teams it has now be the safest move in the midst of all the ensuing turmoil as the Big 12 (and probably Big East) get dismembered.

One thing you can be sure of: The SEC will be looking to its financial bottom line in whatever it does. And that’s a good thing for Georgia.

This is going to get really interesting.

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toph

June 4th, 2010
10:52 am

I’m glad UGA is in the SEC and doesn’t have to worry about it’s conference falling apart around them. If we could add a few quality teams, then let’s expand a bit.

FayetteDawg

June 4th, 2010
11:01 am

I’m all for grabbing up Texas and A&M… They’re not exactly in the southeast, but tradition-driven programs that take pride in the game nonetheless. And let’s be honest–the state of Texas IS football. They have high school stadiums that put college stadiums around the country to shame. Tradition, pride, love for the game–those are SEC qualities that Texas and A&M would only bolster.

uga_b

June 4th, 2010
11:04 am

I would look hard at taking OU and Texas just to keep that rivalry alive. Add in Texas A&M and you need one more. FSU/Clemson/Miami/Virginia Tech would all be great options.

I would think real hard about dropping Kentucky and taking FSU & VT.

Sugar Hill Dawg

June 4th, 2010
11:24 am

IF the SEC feels the need to expand, then adding Texas and A&M would be no-brainers. (The obvious question – do they want to “Go East Young Man?”) Adding VA Tech (contiguous to Tennessee and Kentucky – makes sense) and UVA (I assume they’re a matched set, sorta like the Aggies and the ‘Horns) would make geographic/TV sense. (I recall a couple of years ago someone offered to play the UT – VA Tech match-up at Bristol – 166,000 or more in attendance. That would be a great neutral site matchup along the lines of Jax.) Question: Does the conference split into two eight team divisions (annual games vs division, rotate the other division on a four on, four off). If so, add the UGA – GA Tech game – no room for out of conference games/trips. (No more PAC 10, Big 12 trips to Tempe, Boulder, etc.)

Starring Kam Fong as Chin Ho

June 4th, 2010
11:38 am

These decisions are above my pay grade. Just play ball

Ed

June 4th, 2010
11:49 am

The powers-that-be are going to mess up college football beyond all recognition if they aren’t careful. Getting rid of ties was the first bad move. Some of the most famous games in history were ties or efforts to avoid ties – Michigan State-Notre Dame in ‘66, The Choke at Doak, ‘84 Orange Bowl, Pat “Tie”, etc. Now we have overtimes where the least exhausted wins by basketball scores. Then, we lost, to a large degree, conference tie-ins to major bowls. The Cotton Bowl, maybe the most storied bowl in college football, became an also-ran. We created something called the BCS, which basically narrows the potential national championship contenders to half of D-1, giving us a 2-loss champion in ‘07. Now we’re talking the break-up of a great conference and putting Texas in the SEC, or the Pac 10, or the Big 10, where in any scenario it would be a fish out of water. Leave the damn game alone for once.

Ron Mexico

June 4th, 2010
11:53 am

Agreed Chin Ho

Dawg 39

June 4th, 2010
11:55 am

Is the Big Ten (little 11) looking at GT ? The Atlanta/GT TV market seems to be of interest to them.

PMC

June 4th, 2010
12:06 pm

if it makes $ it makes sense. The only reason anyone is doing anything is to make more $ for the conference so that’s the only reason any kind of expansion is going to make sense.

All these people yammering on about Academics are sadly mistaken.

Old Dawg

June 4th, 2010
12:09 pm

Adding schools from Texas to the SEC would be a logistical and financial nightmare. Always remember, if you bring in schools from other areas of the country you have to figure in the costs of sending non-revenue sports for away games. Travel costs are killing athletic department budgets, regardless of the division, size of schools etc.

Football pays the freight for the majority of athletic programs, which would mean that fans would have to spend more money to attend games. There would be increases in TV revenue with Texas schools, but there other costs related would eat those dollars quickly.

FWIW

June 4th, 2010
12:15 pm

Texas A&M currently has very serious financial issues.

I rank it a very high probability that they move to the SEC.

Arkansas really wants to pickup that rivalry game again, even more so now that they play that game at Jerry World. SEC’s gotta just love that.
SEC doesnt need all of Texas TV market, just a toehold will suffice.

Frankly, I really dont think Clemson or FSU would go to SEC.

Even Bobby Bowden didnt like the prosepct of playing AU & Bama every year. Clemson is an ACC charter member and used to “own” the ACC. Dont think they’d want to move either. Miami could use the money, but Florida despises Miami more than FSU. Miami doesnt view themselves as a “southern” school. So, dont think Miami goes to SEC.

WV or NCState seem the most likely candidates.

That’d make 14 teams, and 2 new states. Not too shabby.

L-Dawg

June 4th, 2010
12:26 pm

The State of Texas simply isn’t in the SOUTH EASTERN UNITED STATES. Why on Earth would they play in the South Eastern Conference?

They need to stay out West.

war-hawg

June 4th, 2010
12:29 pm

agree with the fwiw guy

longtime a&m friends are saying its already a done deal for a&m to join the sec. state of texas knows a&m is in big money trouble and has already agreed to clear the way for them to go to the sec. a&m is in a situation so desparate that they will definitely leave the big12 for the sec.

a pac10 big12 wont happen. major travel issues have already surfaced in teh recent past so that wont happen. think big12 replaces a&m with a texas-based school, like tcu, smu, houston, or utep. that way more big12 money money stays in the state of texas.

however, same a&m friends have said recruiting gold-mine
memphis has come up for discussion more than once. just so you know.
in texas are

Spike

June 4th, 2010
12:30 pm

Da “U”? Please, no!!

Portland Dawg

June 4th, 2010
12:31 pm

Texas is a lot closer to being in the southeast than they are the pacific coast L-Dawg.

YoungDawg

June 4th, 2010
12:43 pm

If the PAC 10 expansion or a merger of the PAC 10 & Big 12 is indeed underway then Slive should offer Texas, Texas A&M, Oklahoma & Ok St to join the SEC! Here’s why:

1. TX & OU will have to bring the other school due to politics.
2. A big plus to this is that realigning the SEC divisions is easy. You put those 4 in the West with AK, LSU, Ole Miss & Miss St then move Bama & Auburn to the SEC East.
3. You play 7 division games & 2 cross over games a year. Another plus is this alignment keeps all the traditional rivalries intact.
4. The SEC east school will have GA & FL as their main recruiting bases & the West would have TX & LA.

Sounds like a good move to me!

Bill your right adding FSU & Clemson are great fits &make sense but that only strengthens what you already have plus adding schools in the current states makes realignment way more complicated.

Buckhead Dawg

June 4th, 2010
12:45 pm

Teams should play as many other teams in their own conference as possible, thereby when you have a conference champion it has real meaning…they’ve beaten most of the conference. Larger conferences = more teams within the conference not playing each other. Stupid.

12 team conferences are big enough. Perfect actually. Leave it as is and let’s play ball.

deWahoo

June 4th, 2010
12:50 pm

As an ACC and SEC fan with loyalties to UVA and UGA, I find all the expansion talk pretty interesting. I keep thinking that if the SEC felt compelled to expand that an interesting scenario might be to invite Texas A&M, Florida St., Va Tech, and WVU to join.

chazzo

June 4th, 2010
12:55 pm

Urban Meyer already has a tummy ache with 12 teams, and Saban would have to sign 40 more players to scholarship than he already does.

chazzo

June 4th, 2010
1:02 pm

Also, with UT changing coaches every year, it’s kind of like we have an additional team already.

Luther Campbell

June 4th, 2010
1:03 pm

Watch out you crackers, the U is coming back! We invented swagger and we’ll play anybody in any conference!!

FWIW

June 4th, 2010
1:04 pm

warhog

Good point but I disagree on part of it.

Agree, TAM is definitely going to the SEC.

Colorado is also definitley going to the pac10 for the same reason.

Colorado also has a very serious money issue just like TAM,
so they are definitely leaving the Big12 for the Pac10.

Now the Big12 is only 10.

That would leave:
TX, TXTECH, OK, OKST, BAYLOR, IOWAST, KAN, KST, NEB, and MIZZ.

If Nebraska & Mizzou see TAM and Colorado jump ship,
they will go beggin to the Big10 for inclusion.
The President of Mizzou is practically begging the Big10 right now.

So, if NEB and MIZZOU leave, your down to 8.

If you’re TX, TXTECH, OK, and OKST,
you’re DEFINITELY GOING TO THE PAC10.

There would be nothng left of the Big12.
BAYLOR, IOWAST, KAN, and KANST end up somewhere else,
maybe in the Mountain West.

So, Pac10 would add TX, TXTECH, OK, OKST, Colorado from the Big12,
and add Utah for the 16th team.

Based on TAM and Colorado desparately needing to change,
I think a Pac10 Big12 merger looks likely.

Kevin

June 4th, 2010
1:16 pm

I think if you add Texas and A&M you have to add two teams to the East. FSU and GT? FSU and Clemson? VA and VTech? A&M goes where Texas goes per the Texas Legislature, so it’s a package deal.

BigTex

June 4th, 2010
1:17 pm

I have lived in this SEC-land for a decade after leaving Texas…and I can tell y’all…Texas is not part of the Southeastern U.S. We’re Texas…and we’re western. I love the Pac-16 idea….two time zones and travel included.

After the Southwest Conf. dissolved into the Big-8, The University of Texas never formed any real rivalries….kept beating the invincible Nebraska and rolling over the rest (with exceptions….)

Call that marriage quits like Al and Tipper….

Archie

June 4th, 2010
1:22 pm

They don’t have the tradition of success or the name brand recognition of Texas and Texas A&M, but Texas Tech has enough political influence in the state legislature to block UT and A&M from leaving them behind. They’re easy to forget about because we don’t hear about them as often, but Texas Tech is a huge university with 30,000 students and tons of alumni in that state. It would be extremely difficult for Texas and A&M to break away from Tech if that’s what they want to do. Any conference trying to lure those two schools would need to be aware of the political battle they’re asking them to take on.

ant banks

June 4th, 2010
1:22 pm

i don’t know why uga fans WANT texas or texas a&m in the SEC. We already have a hard time with fla, ala, tenn, lsu now you want to bring in TEXAS and A&M?

Delusional Dawg

June 4th, 2010
1:22 pm

Texas is going nowhere. Besides, the last thing UGA needs is another team in the conference dominating them.

ScaredyDawg

June 4th, 2010
1:26 pm

I love how this blogger doesn’t even mention the prospect of GT being invited to join the SEC. I understand that the SEC already owns the ATL TV market so from that standpoint GT doesn’t add much, but from an academic and atheltics standpoint GT would be a great fit.

Additionally, the Big 10 is rumored to have interest in expanding into the SE and GT has been mentioned as a target as the ATL market is attractive and GT is a great academic (AAU member) and athletic fit. I would imagine if the Big 10 shows serious interest in GT, the SEC would likely to invite GT just to protect the ATL market from Big 10 infiltration.

Just something to consider. Bill King probably didn’t mention it because he is scared of GT.

FWIW

June 4th, 2010
1:30 pm

Kevin:

TAM AD has already publicly stated he will oppose adding TAM to Pac10.

And, there have already been reports that TAM officials
have met with Mike Slive.

Better go back and read what warhog wrote.

Texas is Staying

June 4th, 2010
1:31 pm

Anyone who thinks TX A&M is going to the SEC without UT is oblivious to politics. The State Legislature won’t allow one to go without the other.

DawgFan

June 4th, 2010
1:31 pm

If the SEC is to expand, and they do go after VaTech, then it only makes sense to try and grab a North Carolina school also. How do you have a Virginia team in the SEC and not an NC team? Either NC State or the Tar Heels would probably be good additions, but there’s also that pesky East Carolina to consider.
I really can’t see Texas and Texas A&M breaking up. Where goes one, so goes the other.

Red

June 4th, 2010
1:32 pm

Bring Texas and say TCU in. If TCU is all they say they are, they would come into a premier conference and play with the big boys. That would resolve their whole crying about the BCS as well. Maybe Texas Tech? Miami would add another market.

We could go the basketball route and pull in UNC and Duke since both bring in a HUGE national presence in basketball.

Texas is Staying

June 4th, 2010
1:33 pm

There is NO WAY UNC is leaving the ACC because of baseketball.

bill lumberg

June 4th, 2010
1:39 pm

Texas is going to Pac-10 or Independent.

The time for Texas to join the SEC was 20 yrs ago. The Texas program was down at the time. Texas was not the pretty girl at the dance back then.

20 yrs ago the leadership at Texas was more “southern” in terms of athletics and academics.

Today, U of Texas leadership is very “liberal”. Austin is the Lone Star state version of San Francisco. This mindset alone will not go for joining the SEC.

20 yrs ago they were forced by state politics to take Tex A&M wherever they went.

Texas forced to take A&M as a package deal at the time. So, Texas went elsewhere (Big 12).

The SEC had its shot at Texas and missed the boat.

Look for the possibility of Texas A&M breaking away from big brother Texas’ shadow this time and seeking SEC membership.

The PAC-10 is not a great fit for Texas A&M. The travel to west coast for non-revenue sports would be very costly (to which Texas can afford and A&M cannot).

If successful, I think A&M will bring Texas Christian with them.

Two SEC West teams shift from the west shift to east (Ala & Auburn).

LSU & Arkansas should be very happy with this set-up since they will be the new dominant players in the West.

Arkansas just renewed their long rivalry with Texas A&M. Game to be played at Jerry Jones World in Dallas.

Clemson and FSU are not going to be invited unless Florida and SC are talked into it.

Neither school brings anything to the table (and tailgating and hot-coeds do not count).

Ga. Tech burned SEC bridges long ago so you can forget the Blue and Gold.

Everything will depend on Texas….Texas was once just another girl at the high school dance.

This is 20 yrs later and that girl now has 34DD implants, botox, and wears a size 0 skinny jeans. i.e. ..everyone wants Texas and she has her pick of dance partners.

JB

June 4th, 2010
1:39 pm

If given the choice Texas and OK are going to pick the Pac 10. In the current enviroment, where you have to go undefeated to win a National Championship the chances of any team making it through the SEC would be slim to none. The NC games would be between the Big 10 and Pac 10 every year. In the Pac the only school that has had a consistent team is USC who appears headed down hill. They go to the Pac and a three horse race rather than the SEC which is wide open most years.

SteerPower

June 4th, 2010
1:39 pm

TAM DOES NOT have financial issues….only the Athletic Department is struggling financially….TAM has some of the deepest financial pockets of any University in America. And, TAM athletics has a large group of rabid fans…I suspect the Aggies will get their athletic financial house in order and also greatly improve their performance on the field….with an endowment of over $6,500,000,000, do you really think that the powers at TAM is going to let the athletic department fail? There’s no one anywhere (and, that includes everyone in the SEC) that has more fan support and pride than the Aggies….so, don’t let the temporary setback in finances tarnish the image of the Aggies….Can’t stand TAM but they are a better educational institution than about 90% of everyone in the Mint Julep/Magnolia league to the Southeast.

Tyrone Biggums

June 4th, 2010
1:41 pm

“We could go the basketball route and pull in UNC and Duke since both bring in a HUGE national presence in basketball.”
—–
C’mon be serious…you think an elite school like Duke is going to want to be in the SEC? The majority of SEC schools aren’t even ranked in the top 100 academically.

Maddawg

June 4th, 2010
1:43 pm

The Cotton Bowl “most storied” in college football history? (as a previous poster has stated). I DON’T THINK SO! NOT BY A LONG SHOT. It’s not even close to being the most storied. That distinction belongs solely to the Rose Bowl.

Spike

June 4th, 2010
1:47 pm

Miami is not a big a market as some of you know it alls claim. They are the biggest fair weather band wagon fans in the world. They may draw 30,000 thousand to a home game with a decent opponent. Maybe 30,000. If Da U is not winning every game their “fans” drop them like a bad habit. Don’t believe me? Watch a game on TV and see how many are in the seats.

FWIW

June 4th, 2010
1:52 pm

SteerPower

Thats what I meant. Their AA has HUGE money problems.

The school and its endowment are rock solid.

Cool your horns.

Go Jackets

June 4th, 2010
1:52 pm

I love how this blowhard almost purposely avoids talking about GT to the SEC. I do not want GT in the SEC because I prefer to align myself with institutions such as Duke, UNC, Wake, and UVA, rather than the academic powerhouses UT, Miss State, LSU, and Georgia, but the fact that this guy won’t even mention that GT is a likely, if not probable, SEC expansion candidate is laughable.

But apparently Clemson is? What does Clemson bring to the SEC table? South Carolina is a small state, with basically no TV market. Further, Clemson hasn’t even won an ACC title in, hell I don’t even know how long it has been. I do know that they have lost at least 4 in a row to Tech.

BigTex

June 4th, 2010
1:54 pm

Bill lumberg, i hope you’re correct. TAMU has been screwing up my thanksgiving plans all my adult life. Good Riddance….

Stanford would love Rice to be added….not likely

war-hawg

June 4th, 2010
1:54 pm

a&m ar enot attached at the hip. state legislature just doesnt want to see a&m sports go down the drain.

state is already clearing the way for a&m to leave big12 for sec.

bank on it.

Unforgiving

June 4th, 2010
2:27 pm

Would all this matter if we had a playoff scheme.

SEC

June 4th, 2010
2:40 pm

Go Jackets: “…. I prefer to align myself with institutions such as Duke, UNC, Wake, and UVA, rather than the academic powerhouses UT, Miss State, LSU, and Georgia……”

And that’s why you get called sissy and nerd, Techie . . .

Bill F

June 4th, 2010
2:41 pm

SEC should be worried

Glenn

June 4th, 2010
2:48 pm

Yeah I would see Texas , A&M , WVU , & VT coming over to the SEC & the ACC picking up a Syracuse type. They wanted Syracuse instead of VT anyway .

UGAKEV

June 4th, 2010
2:49 pm

we should keep the twelve teams and give a team like vanderbilt to the ACC for a Florida state or Virginia tech. Vanderbilt should want to play in a less competitive league where they might get a few more conference wins.

puppydawg

June 4th, 2010
2:52 pm

The SEC is just fine as it is. However, if the powers that be decide that expansion is the way to go, I will support their decision as long as they say hell no to the rambling wretch.