If SEC expands, it needs to hook them Horns
The past week, whether it’s at work or out and about, I’ve been hearing college football fans talking about possible SEC expansion if the Big 10 kicks off the era of 16-team superconferences, and which teams ought to be added.
It’s the kind of subject that leads to spirited and enjoyable debate, with the candidates I’ve heard suggested ranging from the sublime to the ridiculous.
So here’s my take on all of this:
If the Big 10 adds more than one team, Commissioner Mike Slive has indicated the SEC will be proactive to protect its position. Which probably means going to at least 14 and possibly 16 teams.
But just adding teams isn’t what this is all about. The aim of expansion for the SEC will be widening its television footprint by moving into lucrative new markets. Why add teams (like, for instance, Georgia Tech or Louisville) in markets that the conference already dominates? Splitting up the money more ways only makes sense if there’s more money generated. And that’s only going to happen with a bigger TV audience. (Someone mentioned that Louisville would bolster the SEC in terms of basketball, but that’s basically irrelevent to the discussion. Conference expansion is all about football.)
The Longhorns belong in the SEC. (University of Texas Athletics)
The best way for the SEC to add audience would be to invade the state of Texas. A lot of folks think the Big 12 will start to crumble if the Big 10 takes several of its northern teams, and the University of Texas is the jewel everyone wants. Texas in the Big 10 (as rumored early this year) is a bad fit, and while some think the Longhorns might go to the PAC 10, the SEC seems like a much more natural home for them.
According to former SEC Commissioner Harvey Schiller, Texas would have joined the conference back in 1992 had the Texas Legislature not insisted that Texas A&M must be taken, too. At the time, the SEC wasn’t interested in the Aggies. But if the SEC was going to 16 teams, adding Texas and Texas A&M would work just fine this time around. And if the Lone Star politicians didn’t get involved this time, adding Texas and Oklahoma to the SEC would be even better. Oklahoma isn’t a major TV market, but the Sooners are a marquee team.
And if Texas does decide to bolt to the PAC 10 and doesn’t take A&M with it, adding the Aggies and the Sooners to the SEC would work, too.
So that takes care of two of the four teams needed to reach 16. For the other two, some fans think locking up the state of Florida by taking Florida State and Miami away from the ACC (which probably will end up feasting on whatever’s left of the Big East after the Big 10 is through with it) would make sense. The University of Florida likely wouldn’t be thrilled about both of its in-state rivals being added to the conference, but I doubt they could veto both of them.
So if you just take one, the Seminoles are the better choice, both geographically and in terms of fan support. Miami fans don’t travel well and the U doesn’t even draw well at home (though perhaps they’d put a few more folks in the seats if they had SEC competition on a regular basis). Last time we went through all this, FSU opted to dominate (for a while) the weaker ACC rather than joining the SEC, but that would be less likely in today’s TV-oriented college football landscape.
As for South Florida, a school I’ve heard several fans mention, forget it: not ready for prime time.
For the fourth team, a lot of fans on both sides of the border would like to see the Clemson Tigers in the SEC, and admittedly they’d be a good fit in terms of football culture, location and natural rivalries. But they wouldn’t add much to the conference’s TV appeal.
Virginia Tech, on the other hand, might be more inclined to bolt the ACC, where it hasn’t been all that long, and the Hokies would give the SEC access to the Washington-Baltimore area TV market. So I like that move, unless the politicians in the Old Dominion state throw a spanner in the works by insisting the University of Virginia must be taken, too. The Cavaliers aren’t a good fit for the SEC, so in that case Clemson would be the better choice.
So there’s your menu for selecting four new teams: Texas, Texas A&M or Oklahoma, Florida State or Miami, and Virginia Tech or Clemson. Add those to the SEC and it doesn’t matter what any other conference does.
Would this lineup make it tougher for UGA to win an SEC title? Undoubtedly. But it would make it tougher for Florida, Tennessee, Alabama and LSU, too. And whichever team came out on top from such a conference would have a pretty good claim to being the best team in the country.
Feel free to share your own SEC wish list. …
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240 comments Add your comment
GT Fan
April 30th, 2010
4:35 pm
Not surprising that a UGA homer wouldn’t want GT in the SEC. Probably because all the idiot UGA fans see the writing on the wall that GT is a team on the rise and UGA is a team on the decline. Richt has no control over his program and is finally doing what he should have done 5 years ago to players who have disciplinary problems. Too little, too late in my opinion. I don’t believe Tech will win 7 in a row against UGA but I also don’t believe we will see UGA win 7 in a row any time soon either. It would be great to have both teams in the SEC east which would make the rivalry mean so much more each year.
Where have you gone Bill Stanfill?
April 30th, 2010
4:41 pm
I am not in favor of expanding the conference at all! However, if it does happen I say add Clem’s boy and Allbarn to the east side and FSU, UT & A&M to the west. Giving 8 per side and have 4 per “sub-division.” This would be only if the others went to 16 teams as well with similar formats. Now the playoffs could take the top 2 seeds from each division, or four per conference similar to the high school playoffs. Then we could get some true champions. Also this would give more interaction between all conferences not just geographic neighbors. (i.e. SEC vs ACC & Big LEast) My biggest caveat would be that the NCAA tells Notre Lame to join a conference for football or go Ivy. No Free Passes!!!
Camden Mark
April 30th, 2010
4:51 pm
It aint broke so don’t fix it.If they add teams I would probably grumble the least over V Tech and Clemson being they are kind of SECish at heart anyway.
Nothing but steers and queens (R Lee Ermey) in Texas (edited for the weenies at ajc) and we allready have plenty of cows and don’t want anymore of the other.
Chicagomaroon
April 30th, 2010
5:28 pm
Virginia Tech is currently thrilled to be in a very competitive football league and a FAR superior basketball conference. I don’t think there is any chance in convincing Virginia Tech to join the SEC, especially because of the hazing and ridicule that we Hokie fans have been unduly subjected to on the part of traditional SEC powers like the University of Tennesse. Most Virginia Tech fans I know have a hatred of the SEC as a conference in general because they feel the attitude of the conference (mostly fans) is snooty and inclusive. I’d have to agree. I feel like although there is more money, publicity, and better football in the SEC (as it is always either the top or near the top in football) to be gained, going to the SEC is not a logical move for a school that embraces the underdog role and doesn’t want to join the SEC “fraternity” of sorts that has been telling jokes at their expense for years now. Also, for those of you who think SEC and ACC football are black and white, just look at the previous years in the NFL Draft. Although the SEC has done very well, the ACC is not that far behind. We have just as deep of a league as the SEC as evidenced by our extremely high number of bowl bids, but there is no elite team in the ACC year in and year out, just very good teams. The top 4 in the SEC are always stronger than the top 4 in the ACC, and therein lies the real difference.
Old South
April 30th, 2010
8:40 pm
FSU, Miami, Texas would be great additions with maybe Virginia Tech or Oklahoma.
The last thing we need is dregs like Oklahoma State or Texas A&M? Why would we want to add the 4th and 5th best programs in the South Division of the Big XII? Whats next, adding Iowa State and Kansas State too?
If Texas or Oklahoma have to bring their doormat little brothers with them then we don’t need either of them.
Purple and Gold
April 30th, 2010
8:45 pm
We could invite East Carolina and Central Florida to go along with Texas A&M and Oklahoma State. I mean, hell if we are going to add weaklings we might as well go all out.
Or while we’re at it lets just raid the Big 12 of Baylor, Iowa State, A&M and Oklahoma State. It’s obvious they’ve all been a tremendous benefit the their conference that is about to implode.
37-21
April 30th, 2010
8:56 pm
This would be one bad ass conference:
Florida
Georgia
Kentucky
South Carolina
Tennessee
Vandy
Florida State
Miami
Alabama
Arkansas
Auburn
LSU
Ole Miss
Mississippi State
Texas
Texas Tech
Pros: Four additions that both add noticeable overall strength
Huge pickup of all major Texas TV markets
Addition of some great offensive teams (something we were perceived to lack the last few years)
Cons: We already have most of the Florida markets, so FSU and Miami won’t deliver that many TV sets that we don’t have
Texas and Texas Tech may not be excited about moving to a league that would add some L’s to their records
Texas Tech is a small market team (although they are ratings winners on TV, so not sure this is a big deal)
Another perspective
April 30th, 2010
9:54 pm
UGA doesn’t want someone like Texas or OU even if they are in the west. UGA does all they can to schedule 2nd tier bcs conference teams like the following: Colorado which has had 4 losing seasons in last 5 years, Arizona State when’s the last time these guys won anything, Oklahoma State which has never won its division and I don’t think even finished top 25 last year.
Georgia wants winnable, easy games against so so bcs conference teams like the teams mentioned above but they don’t want anything to do with the heavyweight teams from other conferences.
Think you’ll ever see Georgia schedule Texas or OU from the big 12, Ohio State, Michigan in a good year, or Penn State from the big 10, or perennial ACC power Virginia Tech, or USC in the pac 10. Nope. They’ll just keep playing the average teams rather than the big boys. What a crock!
Camden Mark
April 30th, 2010
10:06 pm
A P we could always go the florida route and play the likes of Charelston Southern, Citedal ,Troy and such.
Works good for them
I will admit our sched this year is pretty weak
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Belvedere
May 1st, 2010
3:27 am
UNC isn’t going anywhere without Duke and NC State. Virginia and Va. Tech aren’t going anywhere unless they are packaged. Texas, A&M, and Texas Tech are pretty well hitched together, just as Oklahoma and Okie State are. West Virginia and Louisville have marginal regional appeal, and Clemson, Florida State, and Miami are already in SEC-saturated areas. There is no solution that is a home run here. However, when it comes down to apples and bananas, Clemson and FSU fit, and Texas and A&M fit. Just calling the shots before they fall, but I see Notre Dame spurning the Big (11)ten, Missouri accepting their invite, Colorado leaving for the Pac 10, Utah and BYU being added to the Pac 10, and TCU and SMU joining the Big XII. We’ll have five 12-team superconferences and a few also-rans. The SEC and ACC as we know will be the same, and all this speculation will be like a cow’s opinion, a moo point.
Jason
May 1st, 2010
6:06 am
so if Texas and Oklahoma went to the SEC,then I think we can pretty skip the the nat. champ game and go ahead and put the winner of the sec the Nat. Champs or at least start some sort of 32 team play off bracket
Hook em horns
Jason
May 1st, 2010
6:27 am
bama barley beat an injured texas
SCTally1
May 1st, 2010
8:36 am
I am all for the SEC taking Clemson in. They have a great fan following and have an impressive history with a National Championship. South Carolina is a small state with little national appeal and we do not need their 2 schools. Lets get rid of the COOTS. They bring nothing to the conference but arrogance and mediocrity.
Tomasina
May 1st, 2010
9:11 am
Texas would never even consider joining a conference like the SEC with its high player arrest record, including UGA, where it’s gotten to be a rite of passage to be locked up for DUI, public drunkenness, underage drinking, driving without a license, or assaulting women.
Not in a million years would a grand school like Texas allow itself to be associated with a party/joke of a school like UGA.
Dawg'em out!
May 1st, 2010
11:13 am
horns won join the sec, they dont want to be a avg team. thats why they’ll say in the big12 and be the elite team in that conf.
Hmmmmmmmm!
May 1st, 2010
11:13 am
If Gray had the talents of Hines Ward he would already be playing WR.
What a silly, self centered comment. Not concerned about what’s in it for Gray,
but what about us Dawgs? What will we do?
Rikki Tikki Tava
May 1st, 2010
11:53 am
Bama CRUSHED UF…The Texas puddings that wimped out ‘casue they were getting hit so hard, got hurt DURING the game. That’s what happens in the SEC.
aggie2010
May 1st, 2010
12:55 pm
i understand that A&M might not be the most attractive with football in the past decade, although i believe its improving, but you cannot deny that as a sports school it still will bring in money. A&M has been ranked among the top 15 sports programs in the directors cup annually. Being the only big 12 school to win a game in the NCAA tournament for the past 5 years, golf national championship, mens and womens track national championships, along with highly competitve athletes in many other areas… i think we go under the radar as a good school to have in a conference, but thats just my opinion.
SaudiHorn
May 1st, 2010
2:17 pm
Texas has had a standing offer from both the Big 10/11 and the Pac 10 since the mid 1990’s. Nothing has changed. If the Big XII falls apart then yes, they will look for a new conference. But to be honest Nebraska could easily be replaced (biggest television market is Omaha) and so could Colorado (they don’t deliver the Denver television market now). But, if they both leave and so does Missouri and then the SEC puts an attractive offer out to OU then yes, Texas will move, and I promise you the SEC, Big 10 and Pac 10 would be thrilled to have them. Texas doesn’t have to make the first move, it will have options then, it has options now. I like the SEC idea but I really believe that Texas/OU/TxTech/TxA&M/Colorado and Utah are all headed to a new division in the Pac 10. They will be added to Arizona and Arizona State and the other 8 teams will be in the other division. Just my thoughts….
Tdawg
May 1st, 2010
8:11 pm
Don’t want Texas or Oklahoma even though they both have a great history. Georgia Tech and Clemson has to be two teams. I would think that Florida State would also be a good fit. Why not offer North Carolina, great basketball history also and that would give us the state of North Carolina if we could pry then away from the ACC. If not then I would pick Miami over the rest. North Carolina, Clemson to the east and Fla. State, Ga Tech to the west. Miami would be seated in the east if Carolina opted not to join.
Camden Mark
May 2nd, 2010
11:10 am
BYU Utah TCU and AFA already form the nucleus of the up and coming MWC,3rd or 4th best in the nation.They are far better than the PAC 10 now as indicated in the head to head record,so why in the hell would they want to go join a 2nd rate con like that.
Chris
May 2nd, 2010
2:15 pm
Geography shouldnt be a factor in adding TX teams, they have to travel either the 15 hrs to IA St or 17 hrs to Boulder to play colorado. So it doesnt matter if they travel to Knoxville or Boulder, its about the same distance. Adding UT and/or OU to any conference would make it the premier conference in the nation, and adding them to the sec would ensure that the conference wins the NC every year. Adding A&M/ OSU would just hedge the conferences bets in case of a down year from any of the other 6 powerhouses in the conference. Not to mention adding UT/A&M would include the Houston/ Dallas TV market and some of the best traditions in college football. If the Big 12 braks up like it probably will the sec would be stupid not to pick up OU, UT and A&M.
wardenerd
May 2nd, 2010
5:49 pm
Texas will not leave the protection of Texas officials and come to the SEC. The SWC and BIG 8 were notorious for favoring the front runner hoping for a national title and Texas allowed only one non Texas school into the SWC and everyone knows how many times they got screwed. Ever see an Arkansas official work a Texas-Arkansas game….me thinks not.
wardenerd
May 2nd, 2010
5:51 pm
Wait a minute all you dog fans talk bad about Tech( weak team, empty stadium, able to read and write) and now you want them in the SEC? What beating up on Ky, Vandy and Miss State isn’t good enough for you Dog Fans?
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GaDawg
May 3rd, 2010
9:08 am
I agree with you Bill on hookin’ the horns as long as A&M doesn’t have to be a package deal. I think that Va. Tech would be a good pick up to broaden the footprint in the NE market. What do you think?
GaDawg
May 3rd, 2010
9:48 am
GT Fan
April 30th, 2010
4:35 pm
Tech made the decision to drop out of the SEC to become an independent, like Notre Dame, back in the 1960’s. You can thank Coach Bobby Dodd for that. It was a bad decision for Georgia Tech. The way things stand now, UGA has its share of the Atlanta TV market which means that Tech would not have anything, worthwhile, to contribute to an expanding SEC.
Hey Bill, who do you think would provide the best expansion footprint Clemson, or Virginia Tech?
FWIW
May 3rd, 2010
12:13 pm
First:
Any talk of Texas leaving the Big 12 for the SEC is simply “crazy talk” from a fool. TX isnt gonna play second fiddle to ANYONE, when it comes to THEIR money and controlling THEIR OWN DESTINY. TX & OK DICTATE how Big 12 money is allocated. OK & TX OWN the “cash register” in the BIg 12. No way in Hell TX joins the SEC, nor The Big 10 or Pac 10.
So forget TX.
Second:
As someone has blogged recently, a 16 conference (any conference) opens up the option of having a “divisional playoff” scenario within each conference. Dont know the viability of that, but adds a new dimension worth a consideration.
Third:
No way is Florida gonna allow SEC to add FSU,
without DEMANDING that GT be added as well.
Florida is not going to allow THEIR IN-STATE rival (FSU) to be added to SEC, without REQUIRING UGA to add THEIR IN-STATE rival (GT).
Every SEC school…KNOWS…they have a large alumni base
in the Atlanta area that would LOVE to see THEIR team regularly
play in Atlanta. They will want to add GT to the SEC.
So, a 14 team SEC would likely include GT and FSU.
A 16 team SEC would add Clemson for sure,
and either Miami, Louisville, or NCSt(a long shot).
Clemson, VT, Florida State? Why raid the cesspool?
May 3rd, 2010
2:27 pm
Why on earth would the SEC raid the sewers? Oh, shoot I forgot half the SEC teams are worse. LOL.
Tomasina is a goofball
May 3rd, 2010
2:33 pm
Tomasina Tomasina Tomasina, like no Texas player has ever been arrested. Please send some of what you’re smoking, it must be some good stuff.
T3
May 3rd, 2010
4:40 pm
Every current Big 10 school is also a member of the AAU,
and thats a HUUUUUUUGE institutional consideration for
Big 10 expanison. Afterall, its the school Presidents,
not the ADs that have the FINAL approval.
The following schools are also AAU members:
Missouri (Big 12)
Nebraksa (Big 12)
Iowa State (Big 12)
Kansas (Big 12)
Pitt (Big East)
Syracuse (Big East)
Colorado (Big 12)
So, it is HIGHLY LIKELY that Big 10 expansion will come from this roster. Of course, all this assumes Notre Dame rejects the Big 10 again.
Another HUUUUUUUUUUGE factor often overlooked is: TIME.
Or more accurately: Time Zones.
The Big 10 is actually split between Eastern & Central time zones.
This matters A LOT when youre talking TV audience and TV money.
“TV market share” and Time Zones strongly correlate.
(7) Teams in Eastern Time zone are:
OhioSt
Michigan
Michigan State
Penn State
Indiana
Purdue
Illinois
(4) Teams in Central Time zone are:
Northwestern
Wisconsin
Minnesota
Iowa
So, adding 3 Central Time zone teams (Mizzou, Nebraska, Iowa State) would result in a “balance” of 7 teams in each time zone.
Now the Big 10 can offer MORE games in the NEXT time zone for TV.
Think of it as…”controlling the game clock.”
I consdier the addition of Mizzou, Nebraska,
and IowaSt as STONE-COLD LOCKS for the Big 10.
The addition of these three would be 14 teams.
If the Big 10 wanted to go to 16, they could likely add one team in each time zone. Perhaps, add Pitt in the East, and Kansas to the West.
If the Big 10 went to 18 teams, in addition to Pitt & Kansas, they would likely also add Syracuse in the East, and Kansas State in the West.
With 14, 16, or 18 teams, now the Big 10 would have football to offer fans all the way from mid-day in the Eastern time zone, until later in the night in the Central time zone.
The SEC has a time zone advantage with 5 teams in the Eastern and 7 teams in the Central. This is an advantage for the SEC when it comes to TV money. The SEC currently has more games to offer across a
longer/wider range of time.
The Big 10 knows this. Its the same reason the PAC10 wants to pick up teams in the Mountain time zone, like Colorado, Utah, etc.
The ACC has a BIG disadvantage in this manner as all teams play in Eastern time zone. No way to realy “extend” the clock.
Count on the Big10…”going West.”
T3
May 3rd, 2010
4:45 pm
By the way…
FSU and GT are both in the Eastern time zone,
where the SEC “currently” only has 5 teams.
Wont surprise me at all if SEC tries to add both.
James T. Kirk
May 4th, 2010
8:23 am
The ACC will expand before the Seriously Envious Conference, and we will land Texas, Oklahoma, LSU and UF. My sources have creditable evidence this is in the works
LHardingDawg
May 4th, 2010
3:58 pm
“Another Perspective” at 9.54 is an idiot.
Bev0
May 6th, 2010
11:00 am
I don’t think Texas will head for the SEC, though it would obviously be an exciting move for us. I just don’t think the geography of the thing works, and, personally, I don’t like the idea of a 16 team conference. They’re just…cumbersome.
It’s gonna be interestin’, fer sure…
Landon Belanger
May 9th, 2010
6:13 pm
I would absolutely love for Oklahoma and Texas to join the SEC. I am a Sooner Fan and as long as Oklahoma and Texas still have their rivalry, I’ll be more than glad for this expansion. The conference would do nothing but dominate.
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2:48 pm
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gulfvol
May 10th, 2010
5:40 pm
Texas makes perfect sense –elite team in both football and basketball. brings the dallas, houston, and ausitn tv markets. author is correct in that louisville, west, va, clemson, ga tech bring little to the table in terms of expansion. a better choice than FSU would be North Carolina! elite bb team and brings the raleigh durham chapel hill tv market. what market does fsu bring? fallback option for North Carolina would be Maryland to get the dc market. i dont see the hokies bringing the dc market and uva is not a good fit. so to sum up
1.Texas
2.North Carolina
3.Maryland
4.TCU
TExas and TCU join SEC west and North Carolina and Maryland join the SEC east
sec should boot vandy and replace with Rice.
SoonerInKorea
June 11th, 2010
2:05 am
Hi Dawgs, This is kind of strange, but there are reports all over the place about Oklahoma going to the SEC now. Our former QB and current QBs coach Josh Heupel got a text during his independence bowl hall of honor (lol) dinner, from our RBs coach saying that “we are going to the SEC”, but we have to bring another school with us. I have no Idea who that school would be, but I’d like it to be Texas. I’d still like to have each of those two schools in opposite divisions if that happens though. Anyway, that’s my two cents, and good luck with the 2010 season.