If SEC expands, it needs to hook them Horns
The past week, whether it’s at work or out and about, I’ve been hearing college football fans talking about possible SEC expansion if the Big 10 kicks off the era of 16-team superconferences, and which teams ought to be added.
It’s the kind of subject that leads to spirited and enjoyable debate, with the candidates I’ve heard suggested ranging from the sublime to the ridiculous.
So here’s my take on all of this:
If the Big 10 adds more than one team, Commissioner Mike Slive has indicated the SEC will be proactive to protect its position. Which probably means going to at least 14 and possibly 16 teams.
But just adding teams isn’t what this is all about. The aim of expansion for the SEC will be widening its television footprint by moving into lucrative new markets. Why add teams (like, for instance, Georgia Tech or Louisville) in markets that the conference already dominates? Splitting up the money more ways only makes sense if there’s more money generated. And that’s only going to happen with a bigger TV audience. (Someone mentioned that Louisville would bolster the SEC in terms of basketball, but that’s basically irrelevent to the discussion. Conference expansion is all about football.)
The Longhorns belong in the SEC. (University of Texas Athletics)
The best way for the SEC to add audience would be to invade the state of Texas. A lot of folks think the Big 12 will start to crumble if the Big 10 takes several of its northern teams, and the University of Texas is the jewel everyone wants. Texas in the Big 10 (as rumored early this year) is a bad fit, and while some think the Longhorns might go to the PAC 10, the SEC seems like a much more natural home for them.
According to former SEC Commissioner Harvey Schiller, Texas would have joined the conference back in 1992 had the Texas Legislature not insisted that Texas A&M must be taken, too. At the time, the SEC wasn’t interested in the Aggies. But if the SEC was going to 16 teams, adding Texas and Texas A&M would work just fine this time around. And if the Lone Star politicians didn’t get involved this time, adding Texas and Oklahoma to the SEC would be even better. Oklahoma isn’t a major TV market, but the Sooners are a marquee team.
And if Texas does decide to bolt to the PAC 10 and doesn’t take A&M with it, adding the Aggies and the Sooners to the SEC would work, too.
So that takes care of two of the four teams needed to reach 16. For the other two, some fans think locking up the state of Florida by taking Florida State and Miami away from the ACC (which probably will end up feasting on whatever’s left of the Big East after the Big 10 is through with it) would make sense. The University of Florida likely wouldn’t be thrilled about both of its in-state rivals being added to the conference, but I doubt they could veto both of them.
So if you just take one, the Seminoles are the better choice, both geographically and in terms of fan support. Miami fans don’t travel well and the U doesn’t even draw well at home (though perhaps they’d put a few more folks in the seats if they had SEC competition on a regular basis). Last time we went through all this, FSU opted to dominate (for a while) the weaker ACC rather than joining the SEC, but that would be less likely in today’s TV-oriented college football landscape.
As for South Florida, a school I’ve heard several fans mention, forget it: not ready for prime time.
For the fourth team, a lot of fans on both sides of the border would like to see the Clemson Tigers in the SEC, and admittedly they’d be a good fit in terms of football culture, location and natural rivalries. But they wouldn’t add much to the conference’s TV appeal.
Virginia Tech, on the other hand, might be more inclined to bolt the ACC, where it hasn’t been all that long, and the Hokies would give the SEC access to the Washington-Baltimore area TV market. So I like that move, unless the politicians in the Old Dominion state throw a spanner in the works by insisting the University of Virginia must be taken, too. The Cavaliers aren’t a good fit for the SEC, so in that case Clemson would be the better choice.
So there’s your menu for selecting four new teams: Texas, Texas A&M or Oklahoma, Florida State or Miami, and Virginia Tech or Clemson. Add those to the SEC and it doesn’t matter what any other conference does.
Would this lineup make it tougher for UGA to win an SEC title? Undoubtedly. But it would make it tougher for Florida, Tennessee, Alabama and LSU, too. And whichever team came out on top from such a conference would have a pretty good claim to being the best team in the country.
Feel free to share your own SEC wish list. …
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240 comments Add your comment
Big Bob
April 29th, 2010
9:44 pm
How can Texas be in the SEC? They are in the Southwest, not the Southeast.
Top Dawg
April 29th, 2010
9:52 pm
Add Duke, Wake Forest, Georgia tech and Wofford.
bob
April 29th, 2010
10:27 pm
Texas & Oklahoma are their on major conference, why dilute?
DaveDawg 96
April 29th, 2010
10:51 pm
NO WAY the SEC does the crazy WAC thing and expands to 16.
NO WAY Texas and A&M are allowed to leave behind the other Texas schools. (We’ll have a “new” SWC a.k.a. “Texas League” before that happens.)
NO WAY Virginia Tech is allowed to bolt without Virginia, not after the Cavs stuck out their necks to get the Hokies in the ACC.
NO WAY the SEC has any interest in Louisville, Miami, Memphis or any other school with little tradition and/or a poor following.
This leaves us taking Florida State and Clemson. And if Arkansas bolts for the Big 12 / new SWC, the SEC adds Georgia Tech as well.
FSU is added to the SEC West. Their permanent East opponent is Florida.
Clemson is added to the SEC East. Their permanent West opponent is LSU (replacing Florida).
If Arkansas leaves, Vandy is shifted to the West and Georgia Tech is added to the East. Vandy and Tech become permanent East-West foes. South Carolina loses Arkansas but picks up Ole Miss (Vandy’s former crossover foe). Two pretty compelling annual match-ups.
That is the LOGICAL scenario for SEC expansion. Anything beyond this not realistic — the SEC is not going to diminish its brand with lesser teams.
Enough said.
The Ghost of Wally Butts
April 29th, 2010
10:54 pm
Here is the new 16-Team, 4-Division, SEC:
The New SEC North: UT, UVA, VT, KY
The New SEC East: UGA, SC, Clemson, Ga Tech
The New SEC South: FLA, FSU, Miami, Auburn
The New SEC West: AL, MS, ARK, LSU
Footnotes: Miss St. and Vandy and Bobby Pig-Sooey Arkansas can go join Division 1-AA (I said 1-AA, not the politically correct term)
I’d love to have Texas, but hell, the Republic of Texas already thinks it’s independent of the entire US anyway. Always has.
Can you imagine the money pouring in from the “SEC Divisional Playoffs”?
Can you imagine the enhanced meaning of the UGA-Tech game given the division crown on the line? Holy God.
DaveDawg 96
April 29th, 2010
10:54 pm
NO WAY the SEC does the crazy WAC thing and expands to 16.
NO WAY Texas and A&M are allowed to leave behind the other Texas schools. (We’ll have a “new” SWC a.k.a. “Texas League” before that happens.)
NO WAY Virginia Tech is allowed to bolt without Virginia, not after the Cavs stuck out their necks to get the Hokies in the ACC.
NO WAY the SEC has any interest in Louisville, Miami, Memphis or any other school with little tradition and/or a poor following.
This leaves us taking Florida State and Clemson. And if Arkansas bolts for the Big 12 / new SWC, the SEC adds Georgia Tech as well.
FSU is added to the SEC West. Their permanent East opponent is Florida.
Clemson is added to the SEC East. Their permanent West opponent is LSU (replacing Florida).
If Arkansas leaves, Vandy is shifted to the West and Georgia Tech is added to the East. Vandy and Tech become permanent East-West foes. South Carolina loses Arkansas but picks up Ole Miss (Vandy’s former crossover foe). Two pretty compelling annual match-ups.
That is the LOGICAL scenario for SEC expansion. Anything beyond this is not realistic — the SEC is not going to diminish its brand with lesser teams.
Enough said.
Dawg 39
April 29th, 2010
11:40 pm
Again: The week before the SEC Championship Game. All Conference Games with SEC Title implications. Ala vs Auburn. Ole Miss vs MSU., FSU vs UF, USC vs.Clemson, & UGA vs GT.
Realignment adding FSU, Clemson, & GT. Let them replace Ky.,Vandy. & ARK. if necessary.
The Ultimate SEC
April 30th, 2010
12:12 am
East- Georgia, South Carolina, Clemson, Georgia Tech, Tennessee, Florida, Vanderbilt, Kentucky
West- LSU, Auburn, Alabama, Virginia Tech, Ole Miss, Miss. St., Arkansas, Texas
Revenuer
April 30th, 2010
12:18 am
You are on the right track with TV money. It’s about national markets. If you are touting Clemson or Georgia Tech, those markets are already covered. They don’t bring in revenue and wouldn’t add to the conference.
Mike Bobo Offense
April 30th, 2010
12:34 am
haha, like the SEC would take Ga tech in that little high school stadium
SteerPower
April 30th, 2010
1:04 am
Who wants to be in a league with so many ‘goobers’?
G
April 30th, 2010
1:08 am
For the SEC East, how ’bout the conference drop South Carolina and let them go back to the ACC and take Vandy with them. For replacements, pick up FSU and Miami. Expand markets by adding VT and Cincinnati.
For the SEC West, make Ole Miss and MSU merge into one like IUPU (Indiana University-Purdue University) and play on alternate sites, send Arkansas packing and add TX, TX A&M, OSU and OU.
SteerPower
April 30th, 2010
1:10 am
Almost ALL of those 13 title were done in your granpappies days and hardly anyone still alive that remembers or cares about those dubious,? mythical? titles….As soon as the back knifing, two faced turncoat Saban is gone in a couple years (and he will be gone cause he can’t be faithful to any school) Old bammie will be back to just one of the old dogs chasin rabbits, licking its testicles, and pooping on the front step.
Rob
April 30th, 2010
2:16 am
I would rather see the SEC remain at 12 teams, but I think they will go to at least 14 if the Big 10 does.
14 teams is workable. I would add FSU to the west and Clemson to the east. Play 6 games in your division, one permanent opponent in the other division, and one rotating opponent. You go a long time between playing opponents in the other division, but that is the trade-off of expansion.
I think 16 teams is too big. The only way 16 makes sense is if you can get Texas and Texas A&M (they have to come as a package due to state politics). I think that is unlikely.
The danger to the Big XII comes if either Texas/Texas A&M or Oklahoma/Oklahoma State decides the conference is going to collapse and jumps ship. I wouldn’t be suprised to see the Big XII make a preemptive move for Utah, BYU, TCU, and either Arkansas or Houston to make that less likely.
I wonder if the basketball schools in the ACC would be all the upset if they went back to an eight or nine team “basketball first” conference. As I recall, the four NC schools opposed expansion to begin with and Virginia only agreed due to state politics to get VT included the expansion.
Dallas
April 30th, 2010
2:20 am
There is NO way Texas politicians don’t get involved. Governor Rick has his hand in everything going on at A&M so the idea that Texas politics wouldn’t be involved is preposterous if you know anything about Texas.
If the SEC expands into Big XII territory, they will benefit most from A&M and Texas. Both schools compete in every sport (A&M football has struggled, but that’s a cyclical thing). Both schools travel. Both schools have higher academic standards than pretty much every school in the SEC and are in the top 10 in the US in endowments (and would be instantly at the top of the SEC). And MOST importantly, both schools have histories with SEC teams. A&M plays Arkansas every year and UT and Arkansas are hated rivals. A&M and LSU also had a pretty heated rivalry back in the 80’s. Also consider the Cotton Bowl being in Dallas, where both schools have played SEC teams numerous times.
OU has no logical connection to the SEC other than the occasional non-conference game or bowl game. OU has natural rivalries with teams like Nebraska, Okie State, Colorado, Kansas State… you know, Midwest teams. OU won’t happen.
From a purely SEC standpoint, you would benefit the most from adding 2 Texas teams, either Florida State or Miami, and Georgia Tech or Clemson. By doing so you’d have 2 rivals from Texas, Florida, either Georgia or SC, which have your biggest markets. Add that to the states you already have with 2 teams (Mississippi, Alabama, Tennessee) and you’ve got a very logical and lucrative expansion.
For what it’s worth, I’m a Big XII guy and I think that if we lose Mizzou to the Big 10 and can somehow get rid of Iowa State, then look for us to add TCU, try to pry Arkansas from the SEC (which I think would be likely given their Southwest Conference past), and consider Colorado State, UTEP, Houston, maybe Tulsa.
braves70
April 30th, 2010
2:24 am
I plotted out four 16 team conferences:
SEC: current (12), additions (4): Texas, Texas A&M, Florida State, and Clemson
Big 10: current (11) additions (5): Missouri,Nebraska,Notre Dame,Pittsburgh, and Rutgers.
Pac 10: current (10) additions (6): Oklahoma,Oklahoma State,Colorado,BYU,Utah,UNLV or Boise State
ACC/Big East merger: ACC (10): Miami, Georgia Tech,Duke,NC State, North Carolina,Wake Forrest,Virginia,VA Tech,Maryland,BC and Big East (6): Syracuse,Connecticut,West Virginia,Cincinnati,Louisville,South Florida
You also would have other conferences which would not be part of the 64 team playoff system like: a revival of the old Southwest Conference with TX Tech, Baylor, SMU, TCU, Houston, Rice, UTEP, Tulsa, Kansas, Kansas State, Tulane, LA Tech.
The Big 12 would cease to exist and a special Catholic league could be setup for Basketball only schools: St. John’s, Seton Hall, Providence, Georgetown, Villanova, LaSalle,DePaul,Marquette,Xavier,Dayton,St. Louis,Duquesne.
B-Nasty
April 30th, 2010
3:55 am
Here’s my dream teams to get crushed under SEC competition.
Texas (loses around 4 wins a year)
Oklahoma ( also, loses around 4 wins a year)
Clemson ( loses around 6 wins a year)
University of Virginia ( loses almost all in conference wins)
What do you guys think about that?
TommyJack
April 30th, 2010
6:59 am
Texas would be a coup.
Maddog
April 30th, 2010
7:10 am
In addition to adding teams, why not consider dropping Arkansas. They have absolutely NO television market and it’s a long, long drive. Losing the hogs would allow the SEC to gain another true southern team.
James T. Kirk
April 30th, 2010
8:02 am
The last thing the SEC would want to happen is to have ACC teams join and take over the conference, which would happen if any did decide to leave the most competitive conference in the world and join that joke of a conference.
Seriously Exaggerated Conference
NashDawg
April 30th, 2010
8:28 am
TCU…Horned Frogs
shat
April 30th, 2010
9:20 am
Oklahoma isn’t a TV Market but Auburn is?
dawgs01
April 30th, 2010
9:37 am
james t kirk stop smoking crack
J T Guy
April 30th, 2010
9:44 am
UT, TA&M, OU, OkState. Texas gets their three biggest draws from their current conference. TA&M gets to go where UT goes. OU gets to get as big a piece of the pie as UT and still gets to recruit from Texas and OkState gets to go where OU goes.
Move Bamma and Auburn to the east and only have revolving games (unless LSU gripes Too much) between devisions because Ole Miss and Miss St will still have each other and Arkansas won’t really care so long as they have UT and TA&M back.
So, you play 7 divisional games, 2 revolving games against the other side and 3 non-conference games (12 a year of course).
The furthest UT or OU would have to drive would be Mss St. yearly and only one away game to the east besides that
It would be like the NFL only on Saturdays!
Delbert D.
April 30th, 2010
10:08 am
Getting the traditional rivalries in-conference frees up an out-of-conference game for 6 teams: Ga./Ga. Tech, Clemson/SC, Fla/FSU
how2fish
April 30th, 2010
10:28 am
James T. Kirk…the ACC champs are already in the SEC ..and don’t forget it!
Otto
April 30th, 2010
10:31 am
Dallas, OU could happen. I put them in the big 10 if they grab 3 teams, OU, Nebraska, and Mizzou.
However OU gave up the Nebraska yearly matchup when they joined the Big12. Recruiting Texas is the key for OU’s success. If Texas goes Big12, OU may as well. However I hope the SEC would only take 2 and that would be Tx, and Tx A&M due to politics as said.
Oklahoma is a major media grab, not becuase of the OKC TV market but because OU is one of the elite programs. OU will turn TV sets on coast to coast.
I am the dog
April 30th, 2010
10:58 am
Texas makes more cash than any SEC team….why would they travel 12 hours min to GA to play. You are a lost ball in high weeds. Better pick Tenn Tech and La Tech. Ga loses enough with out a Texas size butt whooping added on every year.
shannon
April 30th, 2010
11:21 am
Texas and Oklahoma to the WEST for a new TV market, name recognition.
Screw FSU-no added market.
Miami (huge south florida population to add to TV), and Va Tech (huge market). Miami would have more fans as the competition woulg go up, as well as more money pumped into their program to build better facilities.
shannon
April 30th, 2010
11:27 am
SEC WEST:
Texas
Bama
Ole Miss
Miss State
SEC North
Oklahoma
Arkansas
KY
Tennessee
SEC South
Miami
Florida
LSU
Auburn
SEC East
Va Tech
UGA
SC
Vandy
Play an SEC semi-final game in two rotating arenas around the SEC
Play the SEC Titile game in Atlanta.
Who cares if we ever win national title again??? Winning the SEC would be a big enough deal.
To hell with the rest of the nation
RxDawg
April 30th, 2010
11:31 am
Just curious, why would UVA not be a “good fit”. It’s a southern state. It has good history. The only thing I’d see as odd is that the SEC would skip the state of NC and go to Virginia. Which is why (if this silly 16 team thing has to happen) I think NC, Duke, Va Tech, and UVA would be great additions.
dawgfanatic24-7
April 30th, 2010
12:03 pm
The s-e-c needs to think about national championships. If we load our conference with all the best teams then many good teams will have 2 losses.Even the s-e-c champion. Then these teams in weaker conferences (that don’t even have a conference championship game) will go undefeated and play in the biggest game of the year. Not smart if you ask me considering how tough our conference already is.
ScoutDawg
April 30th, 2010
12:05 pm
I wish someone would take Kim Z’s glass Krack pipe away from her, him, or she-it. Nothing from “its’ mouth” is logical or reasonable. On the other hand sometimes after a long day of work that shiznit is somewhat amusing.
ScoutDawg
April 30th, 2010
12:20 pm
If the big 10, notice the lowercaps, goes to 16 then I say add 2 and only 2 teams. The SEC will then have the cachet of saying we don’t need your weak 16 teams and still will win 7 out of the next 10 National Championships. For the two exta teams I say fight hard, with the SEC’s BILLIONS of tv dollars to get VT/Clempson for the east, and Oklahoma for the west. Texas is a Diva who wouldn’t like to get violated by a random, weaker for the year SEC team, as happens to someone every year; ask Florida. I like the idea of Clempson, as that always was a fun rivalry for UGA- even though comatose kim,z says they are scary for us, yeah right. However, I think for the east VT would be a hell of an addition, constantly solid, well coached team.
ScoutDawg
April 30th, 2010
12:23 pm
I think a 2 loss SEC team from a super conference like that will still get the nod to a BCS champ game over a lot of 1 loss weak conference teams.
ButlerDawg
April 30th, 2010
12:31 pm
Bill,
Change your sig picture. You are scaring the children!
Ed
April 30th, 2010
1:04 pm
If the SEC had a chance to grab Texas AND Texas A&M (which was a national power in the 90s) back in ‘92 and didn’t, then it is run by a bunch of idiots. Think how much more colorful and exciting the already great SEC would be with a little Texas flavor added to the mix. By now rivalries would have formed between Texas, A&M and SEC teams. That’s a headscratcher.
Ed
April 30th, 2010
1:08 pm
I have to wonder what decades or century-old rivalries would teams like Texas and Texas A&M have to give up to move to the SEC, though. Oklahoma? TTU? On the flip side, the SEC teams would have to give up yearly rivalries as well. There are only so many games in a season. Georgia already lost Clemson around the time the SEC expanded – would Tech be next?
If expansion helps eliminate these meaningless scrimmages against directional schools and I-AA teams, I’m all for it.
Lunch links: Injuries at Texas, Texas Tech | The Fan 690
April 30th, 2010
1:34 pm
[...] the SEC wants to expand, it needs Texas, Texas A&M and Oklahoma to become members, writes Bill King of the Atlanta [...]
Herbie
April 30th, 2010
1:45 pm
Big 10 expansion into the Big XII will take Nebraska first before anyone else. Remember, Big 10 expansion is all about football, ratings, and relevancy–the only likely expansion target that can provide all that for the Big 10 is Nebraska. Nebraska is the 4th most valuable football property (only behind Penn State, Notre Dame, and Texas per Forbes), gets better average TV ratings than all other teams being mentioned (including Notre Dame), and depending on who you use, Nebraska ranks ahead of Missouri in academics.
So talk of Nebraska sticking around the Big XII when they can go to an easier conference, be treated as an equal partner, double television revenue overnight, and get out of the craptacular Big XII television contract is not going to happen. And Nebraska won’t be going to the SEC any time either–while the SEC would love to have the program to increase its television portfolio and revenues, it just doesn’t make geographical sense.
Also, no team in their right mind will leave the SEC, including Arkansas. TV money is too great, and no school wants to deal with the headcases in Austin that have their slimy hands into anything that happens in the Big XII, including the lack of a Big XII network.
OU and/or aTm would be a good fit for the SEC, would boost ratings…but Texas has a habit of being a homewrecker. They helped kill the SWC (though T. Tech were the ones that ratted on the other schools for a lighter penalty…), they’re killing the Big XII right now (which is why it’s a question of when and not if Nebraska accepts a Big 10 invite), and they’ll bring their backroom shenanigans wherever they go.
If anything, let Texas inflict themselves on the Pac-10–let the SEC take OU and aTm and get stronger as a result.
Rodney Holloway
April 30th, 2010
1:48 pm
I just don’t think the SEC should be adding academiclly weaker schools like Texas. There is already a perception problem.
South Georgia UGA Hick
April 30th, 2010
2:20 pm
I think UGA should drop out of the SEC and get
in the Big Ten. Haven’t been beaten by a big team
in a bowl in years. Would be ranked ahead of
Ohio STate in the BCS annually and play for
more national championships.
ryan
April 30th, 2010
2:54 pm
Texas won’t go without Texas A&M. It’s been shown before. And OU won’t go without OSU. So if they want the state of Texas market they’d need to take all 4 of these teams because I doubt Texas wants to leave OU either.
ryan
April 30th, 2010
2:58 pm
Texas A&M used to be long time rivals with LSU and Arkansas. So they’d fit great. But like I said, without taking all 4 Big 12 teams, OU OSU UT and A&M, the SEC won’t get one.
DJones
April 30th, 2010
3:01 pm
So Rodney…Texas is now an academically weeker school? How do you figure?
DJones
April 30th, 2010
3:02 pm
Weaker…my bad
a playoff is imminent.
April 30th, 2010
3:25 pm
i am in favor of expansion because it will then create its own playoff system.
U
April 30th, 2010
3:34 pm
Enter your comments here
Texas Horns
April 30th, 2010
3:35 pm
Texas in the SEC? UT would be winning that title almost every year. But, Texas will not move—too much money in the Big 12.
TXDawg
April 30th, 2010
4:16 pm
Man it would make my day if Texas joined the SEC but the next best team to pick out of Texas would be TCU (not A&M). With Arkansas removed maybe the SEC could entice Vandy to leave too and the conference could look something like this:
SEC East – UGA, UF, UT, SC, KY, FSU, Clem, Miami
SEC West – AL, AU, LSU, UT, TCU, MS, MS St, TX A&M
As for the Red River Shoot-Out Texas and OU can still be played like UGA and GA Tech is played even though they are in different conferences. The tradition doesn’t have to die.
Texas and TCU would definitely bolster the Dallas (North Texas) TV market for the SEC.