If SEC expands, it needs to hook them Horns
The past week, whether it’s at work or out and about, I’ve been hearing college football fans talking about possible SEC expansion if the Big 10 kicks off the era of 16-team superconferences, and which teams ought to be added.
It’s the kind of subject that leads to spirited and enjoyable debate, with the candidates I’ve heard suggested ranging from the sublime to the ridiculous.
So here’s my take on all of this:
If the Big 10 adds more than one team, Commissioner Mike Slive has indicated the SEC will be proactive to protect its position. Which probably means going to at least 14 and possibly 16 teams.
But just adding teams isn’t what this is all about. The aim of expansion for the SEC will be widening its television footprint by moving into lucrative new markets. Why add teams (like, for instance, Georgia Tech or Louisville) in markets that the conference already dominates? Splitting up the money more ways only makes sense if there’s more money generated. And that’s only going to happen with a bigger TV audience. (Someone mentioned that Louisville would bolster the SEC in terms of basketball, but that’s basically irrelevent to the discussion. Conference expansion is all about football.)
The Longhorns belong in the SEC. (University of Texas Athletics)
The best way for the SEC to add audience would be to invade the state of Texas. A lot of folks think the Big 12 will start to crumble if the Big 10 takes several of its northern teams, and the University of Texas is the jewel everyone wants. Texas in the Big 10 (as rumored early this year) is a bad fit, and while some think the Longhorns might go to the PAC 10, the SEC seems like a much more natural home for them.
According to former SEC Commissioner Harvey Schiller, Texas would have joined the conference back in 1992 had the Texas Legislature not insisted that Texas A&M must be taken, too. At the time, the SEC wasn’t interested in the Aggies. But if the SEC was going to 16 teams, adding Texas and Texas A&M would work just fine this time around. And if the Lone Star politicians didn’t get involved this time, adding Texas and Oklahoma to the SEC would be even better. Oklahoma isn’t a major TV market, but the Sooners are a marquee team.
And if Texas does decide to bolt to the PAC 10 and doesn’t take A&M with it, adding the Aggies and the Sooners to the SEC would work, too.
So that takes care of two of the four teams needed to reach 16. For the other two, some fans think locking up the state of Florida by taking Florida State and Miami away from the ACC (which probably will end up feasting on whatever’s left of the Big East after the Big 10 is through with it) would make sense. The University of Florida likely wouldn’t be thrilled about both of its in-state rivals being added to the conference, but I doubt they could veto both of them.
So if you just take one, the Seminoles are the better choice, both geographically and in terms of fan support. Miami fans don’t travel well and the U doesn’t even draw well at home (though perhaps they’d put a few more folks in the seats if they had SEC competition on a regular basis). Last time we went through all this, FSU opted to dominate (for a while) the weaker ACC rather than joining the SEC, but that would be less likely in today’s TV-oriented college football landscape.
As for South Florida, a school I’ve heard several fans mention, forget it: not ready for prime time.
For the fourth team, a lot of fans on both sides of the border would like to see the Clemson Tigers in the SEC, and admittedly they’d be a good fit in terms of football culture, location and natural rivalries. But they wouldn’t add much to the conference’s TV appeal.
Virginia Tech, on the other hand, might be more inclined to bolt the ACC, where it hasn’t been all that long, and the Hokies would give the SEC access to the Washington-Baltimore area TV market. So I like that move, unless the politicians in the Old Dominion state throw a spanner in the works by insisting the University of Virginia must be taken, too. The Cavaliers aren’t a good fit for the SEC, so in that case Clemson would be the better choice.
So there’s your menu for selecting four new teams: Texas, Texas A&M or Oklahoma, Florida State or Miami, and Virginia Tech or Clemson. Add those to the SEC and it doesn’t matter what any other conference does.
Would this lineup make it tougher for UGA to win an SEC title? Undoubtedly. But it would make it tougher for Florida, Tennessee, Alabama and LSU, too. And whichever team came out on top from such a conference would have a pretty good claim to being the best team in the country.
Feel free to share your own SEC wish list. …
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240 comments Add your comment
patrick
April 29th, 2010
2:15 pm
Soooo let’s make the sec harder? Then a undefeated pac ten team and an undefeAted b ig ten team (which is easer to do in a weAker conference) would play in the NC even tho a better team has one loss playing in the sec. Yeah see how smart that is.
Delbert D.
April 29th, 2010
2:19 pm
Florida, FSU, Miami, SF, CF, FI, FA. Needs one more school for a Southern Division of some conference. Lowers reliance on foreign oil. Ultimately, Obama runs everything (or is it Rahm Emmanuel?)
Delbert D.
April 29th, 2010
2:25 pm
J40 – Good point. Optimistically, some would rather go to Hawaii rather than attend a home game. More alumni from those schools would likely make the trip than La. Tech or Idaho folks.
Delbert D.
April 29th, 2010
2:34 pm
J40 – The other thing is that our current President is a former Hawaiian, and there are large numbers of people living in Ala Moana Park, adjacent to Waikiki. The economy is in a desperate situation over there.
kevin
April 29th, 2010
2:34 pm
The Big 10 has 2 less teams than the SEC, the Big 12 and the ACC. Why on earth would the SEC expand if the Big 10 does? Moreover, there is no need to add the likes of Texas or any other competitive team the nation’s toughest conference. The SEC should remain exactly as it is.
how2fish
April 29th, 2010
2:35 pm
Sam agreed it should be those teams we have a history with.
kevin
April 29th, 2010
2:37 pm
btw, Kim Z, if GT joined the SEC, they would be viewed as equals to the likes of Miss St., KY and Vandy. Your conference is an absolute joke.
J40
April 29th, 2010
2:38 pm
Kevin, the Big 10 has 11 teams.
kevin
April 29th, 2010
2:43 pm
You’re right J40–sorry about that. Even so, no reason for the most dominate conference in football to make itself more competitive.
NebraskaMan
April 29th, 2010
2:43 pm
All you idiots that think Texas will join the SEC are dreaming. If anything, the Big 12 will draw Ark out of the SEC and add 3 more teams. The Big 12 isn’t going anywhere.
Delbert D.
April 29th, 2010
2:45 pm
“equals to the likes of Miss St., KY and Vandy”
That begs the question, “What are those schools doing in the SEC?”
Jim n Buckhead
April 29th, 2010
2:46 pm
I’d say Texas, FSU, VA Tech and Clemson
Spike
April 29th, 2010
2:50 pm
Kevin, do you want to answer Delbert or do you want me to?
Delbert D.
April 29th, 2010
2:53 pm
The hypothetical SEC. I know why they are in the current SEC.
CLEVON LITTLE
April 29th, 2010
2:59 pm
Interesting…..
kevin
April 29th, 2010
2:59 pm
Take it, Spike
AceDawg
April 29th, 2010
3:02 pm
If the mega conferences come, however, we just need to add a playoff to determine the national champion so that the increasing difficulty of schedule in many conferences doesn’t further reward a team with zero or fewer losses and a weak resume.
I’d say Texas would be best, then Clemson, then FSU, then Va Tech – Oklahoma is OK but I think they should stay Midwest. Texas A&M has no appeal to me. Miami is NO SEC SCHOOL and would be a shame to add to the SEC due to its lack of football culture. Vandy and then Miss St would be the best to drop.
St. Bernard
April 29th, 2010
3:03 pm
add Texas, Oklahoma, Virginia Tech, and Louisville and there’s no need for a playoff debate. The SEC plays USC for the championship year end and year out.
Spike
April 29th, 2010
3:04 pm
Kevin, Delbert threw me a curve when he asked about the hypothetical SEC. I didn’t know there was one, and I’m not sure I’m man enough to answer that one. It’s all yours. Sorry.
KR
April 29th, 2010
3:04 pm
NebraskaMan, I can hear the desperation in you writing. Texas fans would love to come to the SEC and it makes sense with teams like Arkansas, LSU, Alabama and Ole Miss. Nebraska is just starting to make the B12 North much more relevant in that conferance, so the timing would suck. I wouldn’t want to be part of the Big Ten either….LOL about chest bumping over UGA losing to OSU last year considering we were so good.
UGADAWGZ
April 29th, 2010
3:05 pm
expanding would be stupid.Even if other conferences expand we will still be the dominate conference
Just a fan
April 29th, 2010
3:06 pm
Here is a solution to all of college footballs problems 1. Go to 10 conferences 12 teams each and independents must join a conference 2. All conferences must have a conference championship game the winner of each conference would get an automatic entry into college football playoff which consist of 16 teams 3. that would leave four at large spots to go to the highest seeded teams not to win their conference i.e. (UF losing to bama in SEC title game would get a spot). 4. To make this happen a panel of ex coaches/players would need to be formed to vote on the top 25 no current coaches and no media and no computers 5. This wouldn’t mean the end of bowl games you would still use the bowl sites to play the playoffs just make the games regional and rotate the championship game like they do now and still have the other bowl games that we currently do and just play those games opposite of the playoff format, and one last thing cut the current season back down to 11 games, by doing that you only end up playing 3 more games than we currently do if your team makes it to the championship game.
Delbert D.
April 29th, 2010
3:07 pm
AceDawg –
“If the mega conferences come, however, we just need to add a playoff to determine the national champion so that the increasing difficulty of schedule in many conferences doesn’t further reward a team with zero or fewer losses and a weak resume.”
You got it right on the nose. No more strength of schedule stuff, if the conference-to-conference playoffs are fixed, and not based on seeding.
kevin
April 29th, 2010
3:09 pm
My only point regarding GT, was that Tech, year in and year out, is about as good as the Vandys, KY and Miss States of the world and would finish 6-6. Every conference has some weaker teams (as they should). That our conference has them says nothing about our conference whatsoever. Not sure about this hypothetical bit and its implications according to Delbert.
Delbert D.
April 29th, 2010
3:09 pm
“If SEC expands, it needs to hook them Horns”
Bills blog is about a hypothetical SEC, expanded to include Texas as the teaser.
Saint Simons
April 29th, 2010
3:09 pm
sec should add Troy , Tenn. Tech, La Tech and Fla A&m !!!!!!!!
kevin
April 29th, 2010
3:09 pm
that should have read, “will finish 6-6 if they played in the SEC”
kevin
April 29th, 2010
3:10 pm
St. Simons,
Even with those additions, the SEC would still be stronger than the ACC.
DC DAWG
April 29th, 2010
3:11 pm
stupidest idea EVER! i would do this UNLESS tere was a PLAYOFF STSTEM. Otherwise you can forget SEC domianting. Ala, Texas, Fla, Lsu, uga, Tenn, Auburn all in the same conference? Thats totally crazy under the current crappy BCS system.
Also, look what expansion did to ACC. it ruined it. It also ruined Big East basketball. More eyeballs may lead to more revenue, but it may also dilute it and you could lose money.
A
Delbert D.
April 29th, 2010
3:15 pm
kevin – If Texas is added to the current mix, that is 13 teams. Following the Big-10 (11) expansion idea, that would or could lead to 16 teams in the SEC. Factoring in media coverage, travel, and strength of the conference, would it be better to keep these teams that don’t win championships or replace them with contenders? Miss. State, Kentucky and Vanderbilt…are they valued as in-conference opponents that can regularly be beaten? Would schools that produce more NFL players be more valuable? Think about the rest of the country looking at the SEC.
robodawg
April 29th, 2010
3:23 pm
I like 12 teams, but if you added two, I’d say Texas and VaTech. If adding two more teams, A&M and NC State wouldn’t be bad choices. North Carolina is an untapped SEC market, and of its two best football programs, UNC would be more likely to stay put for basketball — but a move could be a good opportunity for NC State. I don’t see what we get from adding Clemson — it’d be about like adding GT and would hurt the Dawgs more than anyone. I’d also choose Miami over FSU, since we’ve got the northern Florida market covered already.
Will Dawg
April 29th, 2010
3:23 pm
NebraskaMan you can have Ark. We’ll add FSU, Virginia Tech and Clemson and win National Titles STILL.
Delbert D.
April 29th, 2010
3:24 pm
I’m assuming that these 16-team conferences would be that basis of an NCAA playoff system. A lot of political crap would need to be shoveled out of the way first. The East and West (or North and South) division winners make the playoffs and face each other. Alabama vs. Florida. Texas vs. Georgia, whatever. Won-loss doesn’t matter as long as you win your division (and tiebreakers, of course).
Sanford Drive
April 29th, 2010
3:28 pm
If that happened, I hope we wouldn’t lose any traditional rivalry games, like Auburn (assuming they were placed in the West and we remained in the East).
Delbert D.
April 29th, 2010
3:33 pm
With playoffs beginning with conference championships, a 3-loss SEC team could meet in the NCAA Championship game with an undefeated Big-16 team and win the championship. It pretty much dictates either 4 or 8 16-team conferences to avoid byes or play-ins.
Ferndolin
April 29th, 2010
3:39 pm
This is crazy. Does money have to decide everything? B.S.!! Leave it alone.
Rutted Pasture
April 29th, 2010
3:42 pm
No way University of Texas goes to the SEC or any other conference for that matter. This is the school that was close to inking a deal with the Pac 10 before the Big 8 expansion was organized in the 90’s. There is some support by some influential boosters and admins for a move to the SEC but the Pac 10 friendly higher ups will fight tooth and nail to not allow UT to go to the SEC.
I think five or so years down the road a second wave of schools like Nebraska will go to the Big Ten and then UT will be humbled and realistic enough to do the logical thing and go to the SEC when whats left of the Big Twelve totally falls apart.
Delbert D.
April 29th, 2010
3:45 pm
Ferndolin – Money is deciding everything now. The BCS.
Delbert D.
April 29th, 2010
3:50 pm
It would be a pretty big cultural change to focus everything on winning the sub-conference instead of trying to get that 6th win to get into the Arm & Hammer Bowl.
FortyNine49
April 29th, 2010
3:53 pm
Everyone who says something “will never happen” are speaking from the status quo. As it stands now, that is correct – Texas would never go anywhere. But suppose the Big Ten does pull Missouri and perhaps Nebraska, too. Then suppose the SEC says to Texas: “Either you come to the SEC, or we’ll invite Oklahoma and Oklahoma State. You think Texas is going to stand pat and watch the other stronger Big XII teams leave? Never mind the scenarios above – yes it could be the SEC grabs teams from the ACC – but the point is that if Texas wakes up one morning and sees the Big XII teams leaving…they are going to feel like they missed the boat.
back in the day
April 29th, 2010
3:54 pm
For the SEC to add TX and TX A & M is fabulous. To discuss Tech in this conversation is like putting Adam Sandler in the ring with Norton, Ali and Tyson and Joe Frazier and George Foreman and saying “what a group of fighters.” Ali & Co, and Tyson in their day were rough customers.
Sandler? He is nice like tech is um, ah, downtown?
AAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
76-Dawg
April 29th, 2010
3:58 pm
Expanding the SEC will make a great conference but unless the BIG- 10 adds some respectable teams, all that will do is allow them to limp into the national title game even easier than they do now.It is very frustrating for the BIG-10 champion to play in the national championship game when everyone associated with the SEC knows that as many as 3 or 4 teams in the SEC could beat them.
What happened to all the A&M criticism???
April 29th, 2010
3:59 pm
We were told that “A&M is not a major power,” back during the Weedeater Bowl in Shreveport. Right?? Can you all recall all of that crap?? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm?? “What is a Texas A&M” we were askked. AAAAAHAHAHAHAH
Well, um they are being looked at for entry into THE CLUB, along with Texas. See? This school has historically been BIG BOY BALL ………….unlike Tech. Money, power, oil and prestige drive this discussion. Um, ah did I say MONEY????? Money talks and GUN smoke from tech walks.
I mean, techies like to say “NASA, NASA” well, obama is canning NASA so, so much for that proud declaration going forward. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHHA
Delbert D.
April 29th, 2010
4:03 pm
76-Dawg – That would be the great dilemma of a playoff system. You’d want to be in a weak conference to advance to the regional playoff, but you’d want to be in a strong conference for the media contracts and recruiting.
38 Yardline Dawg
April 29th, 2010
4:06 pm
Get Notre Dame!!!!
38 Yardline Dawg
April 29th, 2010
4:07 pm
(Boy would I like to see the Dawgs beat Notre Dame over and over and over)
38 Yardline Dawg
April 29th, 2010
4:08 pm
Delbert, I think the BCS changed it’s name to BC$
Delbert D.
April 29th, 2010
4:11 pm
BC$ plus accommodation for Notre Dame.
BAMA STAN
April 29th, 2010
4:16 pm
13 NATIONAL TITLES – 22 SEC TITLES!!!
Nick – 1:24 post states that in my plan – UGA/AU and AL/TN would not play every year.
Re-read my post!!!
Auburn moving to the EAST means that UGA/AU will play every year.
UGA picks up Texas A&M as the permanent SEC West opponent.
Alabama/Tennessee rivalry will be sacrificed.
However – Tennessee picks up Texas as a permanent West opponent – battle of UT’s.
Alabama picks up Auburn as the SEC EAST permanent opponent – keeping the IRON Bowl intact. Most Alabama fans would rather keep Auburn as the annual rivalry over Tennessee.
The split I suggest is based on geography – Auburn moving to the SEC East makes the best sense.
A 14 team conference is just too big – if you want to try to play each team within a reasonable amount of time and can stomach a 10 game conference schedule. That only leaves 2 OOC games. For UGA – that would mean a warm-up game and end the season with GT.
Otto
April 29th, 2010
4:20 pm
FourtyNine49, Agreed and what if Oklahoma in addition to Nebraska, and Mizzou make the Big10 14 teams. Colorado has been open to Pac10 expansion, Regents that are on the board now and were elected but not yet in office at the time they went to the Big12 would vote for the PAC10.
Texas will never go for revenue being split equal? The revenue sharing structure of the Big12 may result in the downfall of the conf. leaving Texas with little choice but to join another conf. IMO Texas and Tx A&M still go as a package but a SEC at 14 teams with both Texas schools, the Big 10 at 14 with OU, Neb, and Mizzou, the Pac10 with Colorado and who ever they get from the WAC or MWC would make an interesting landscape. 14 teams with 1 team on rotation and 1 permanent rival from the other side would be workable.
I have said it before the Big10/SEC gain little form BigEast or ACC schools. The Northeast schools (Syracuse, Rutgers, Pitt) do not carry the TV ratings Nebraska or OU would grab. The SEC needs to expand in land area if the Big10 expands, Texas gains more TV sets. If Colorado and Nebraska reach contracts to move watch the Big12 dominos fall.