Happy Hour: Herschel vs. Knowshon
I thought we’d head into the weekend with one of those imponderable but nevertheless fun discussions that come up so often over a few beers, matching up two great teams from different eras and arguing about who would win.
Part of the problem in doing this, of course, is that modern era players are much bigger and faster than those from decades ago. So the 1942 national champion Georgia team probably would get killed by an average team from today, despite having Frank Sinkwich and Charley Trippi in the backfield.
Even the 1980 national championship Dogs technically would be at a weight and speed disadvantage against a 21st century team. But then they did have Herschel and a helluva defense, which might be the equalizer.
In this game for the ages, I’d put them up against the 2007 Dogs, a team that lost a couple of games (one badly) but finished the season as a juggernaut.
Think about the possibilities: The 1980 SEC and national champs with Walker, Buck Belue, Lindsay Scott, Jimmy Payne, Eddie Weaver, Scott Woerner and company against a team that didn’t win its division but finished No. 2 in the nation, thanks to Matthew Stafford, Knowshon Moreno, Mohamed Massaquoi, Marcus Howard, Jeff Owens, Kelin Johnson and others.
The first inclination would be to favor the 2007 team just because you’d figure that even with Herschel, Vince Dooley’s 1980 offense couldn’t keep up with Mark Richt’s 2007 scoring machine. But then I start wondering whether the 2007 defense really could stop Walker. And whether that stout 1980 defense might not be able to shut down Stafford.
It would be a great game either way. Who do you think would win?
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187 comments Add your comment
Gravy Train
June 28th, 2009
1:14 am
Bill,
I thought you said you’ve never been drunk a day in your life. Well you could’ve been drunk to entertain such an argument when beer is involved.
There is no comparison for the H-Bomb, and it’s certainly unfair to Knowshon or any other Georgia running back to make such comparisons. Number 34 is retired for great reasons, for he aspired to be one of the greatest ever.
Whopper Dawg
June 28th, 2009
2:35 am
1980 wins – why?
Heart, discipline, execution.
Erik Russel vs Willie (The Mistake) Martinez?
Can you imagine Herschel running against a WM defense? Laughable. And Standford on his back against Russell’s D and Moreno needing his blows? Come on.
Give me a break
gary
June 28th, 2009
6:21 am
The 2002 team with Greene and Pollack was much better than the 07 team, and would have fared better against the 80 team, but in the end Buck and Herschel would prevail.
Danny Floyd
June 28th, 2009
6:32 am
Maybe close but ‘80 would take the game. A repete of THE PLAY that knocked off the Gators that year would make for a classic ending!
Marietta Dawg
June 28th, 2009
7:41 am
Let’s see . . . Who is more overmatched: Knowshon vs. Herschel or Martinez vs. Erk? Nice try at making a little controversy where none exists. The two teams do not compare. You cannot compare pretenders with champions.
Dawg Days
June 28th, 2009
7:48 am
Who cares about which is better, Ogletree is a Bulldog, now that’s real news. He will star at safety as true freshman, a real stud.
Shut up ... Mutt
June 28th, 2009
7:56 am
ShutUpMutt – So you think that GIT could stop Herschel? Here’s a little history lesson for you. 38-20, 44-7, 38-18. Sound familiar? Those are the scores of the three years that Herschel played against you.
yellow fuzz
June 28th, 2009
8:24 am
Herschel was great back in his day. But in NO WAY would he be considered a great college back today. In fact, he’d be recruited as a defensive end today. And the last time I saw him in person, he’d be better suited for the offensive line.
AC
June 28th, 2009
9:49 am
Mark, ND was bigger on the lines in the 80’s with a bunch of fat people. They were not the athletes of today. I have not contradicted myself at all. The bigs today are athletes with speed. That is what is meant by team speed. It’s not the skilled positions, it is also the speed of the line.
It does not matter when talking with someone like you. 20 years from now when the OL is averaging 400 pound linemen that all run a 4.4 you still will believe the 80’s team wins.
Ask anyone who has PLAYED football and they will tell you the same. Modern day football players are bigger and faster.
AC
June 28th, 2009
9:52 am
All American in the 80’s doesn’t mean “fecal matter” either.
AC
June 28th, 2009
9:53 am
Speaking of all the players from the 80’s who played in the NFL and played in Super Bowls. They all say the same thing on TV when interviewed. The GAME is faster.
meansonny
June 28th, 2009
9:53 am
We did have a defense in 2007. Remember this blog was about 1980 versus 2007.
2007 UGA was ranked 18th in the nation in scoring defense.
After the Tennessee game… we came out as one of the tougher defenses against each weeks respective teams.
(held Florida to their lowest total of the season. Florida ranked #3 in the nation in scoring offense)
(Held Kentucky to their lowest point total of the season. Kentucky ranked #15 in the nation in scoring offense)
(Held Hawaii to their lowest point total of the season. Hawaii ranked #1 in the nation in scoring offense).
The 1980 team could very well win the game. Look at the Notre Dame game… the unrecovered kickoff put the Bulldawgs in position to take control of the game. That could happen to the 2007 team (a few times over). But the 2007 team was the faster, more physical, and better equipped team by the end of their season.
This is a fantasy game. We’ll never really know.
But they didn’t make athletes back in 1980 like they do today.
And ask just about any coach… they want the best horses in the Derby.
AC
June 28th, 2009
10:00 am
For those who do not think Herschel would be a great back today, you are Crazy. He would be a game changer even today.
Mark
June 28th, 2009
11:13 am
AC…….I agree that todays players are bigger and faster but thats not the point. Yes I agree the game is faster…..not the point
Under your train of thought why would we even play the game….or any football game at any level….lets just award the win to the team that on paper is faster and bigger????????Matter of fact why would there even need to be a game….lets not even play it…just give the win to the bigger-faster team????
“The 80’s team is like a modern BIG 10 team?” SO the BIG 10 should just forfit to the SEC…cause there is no way they could win?
THE BIGGEST-FASTEST-MOST TALENTED TEAMS DON”T ALWAYS WIN!!!!!!!!
THATS WHY THE GAME IS PLAYED!
AC
June 28th, 2009
12:35 pm
All I am saying, is that it is not going to be easy for the 1980’s team to win. Everyone makes it out like they would win easily.
Let us remember, that the 80’s team, though talented, was EXTREMELY lucky. Some of the games could have went either way.
I believe that the modern team would be favored. Does it mean they could lose? Sure. That is why you play the game. That is why the Big 10 plays the game. Because there is always a chance.
My only point is that the 2007 team would more than likely win more than they would lose.
AC
June 28th, 2009
12:36 pm
Oh, and by the way, I think the Big 10 should forfeit.
nobody
June 28th, 2009
1:09 pm
Good as Moreno was, nobody can touch Hershel; truth is, I would take Robert Edwards over Moreno….no telling how good he would have been had he played offense his entire career and had he not gotten hurt at Tennessee….he was wearing them out before his injury….
TW
June 28th, 2009
2:46 pm
#34 had a defense and an offensive line.
#24 never had the privilege.
AC
June 28th, 2009
3:07 pm
As far as running backs, after Herschel, people seem to forget about Hampton who had to share time. He was a great college back as well as a great pro.
Frank Lane
June 28th, 2009
4:25 pm
The difference is deception. the 1980 team could line up and explain the play to you, exactly what they were going to do and why, then snap the ball and do exactly what they told they were. Deception was rarely if ever necessary.
I cannot remember when another Georgia team could do exactly what you knew they were going to do and make it work.
That70sGAdawg
June 28th, 2009
6:44 pm
Last years Willie Martinez defense stop Hershel ????
HA, HA, HA!!!!!
John
June 28th, 2009
8:08 pm
2007 team wins, but Herschel runs for a mile
Mark
June 28th, 2009
9:05 pm
Walker…Hearst….Hampton…..Edwards……NEVER DISPLAYED THE LOOK AT ME I’M THE GREATEST EVER ATTITUDE that MORENO did….didn’t care much for all that show boating….didn’t even win the east….TWO first round draft picks and we can’t even win the east? We shall see what this years “TEAM” will do without the two superstars!THe more I think about Stafford and Moreno the more I can’t think about what a waste of talent….do you think the two might have pissed off some of there own teammates? No team chemistry????Think Stafford would have stuck around if Cox was the starter???? CAN”T WAIT TILL OKLAST……GO DAWGS!!!!!
Dave In Tampa
June 28th, 2009
9:12 pm
I agree with the fact that the athletes are better trained now a days, but don’t you think that if HW had todays training technology he would take advantage of it as well? He was a work out fanatic. Imagine how much quicker and stronger he would have been with today’s technology. He was by far the best RB in College Football ever.
richtfan
June 28th, 2009
10:22 pm
i don’t know who would win or whatever, but i can say unequivocally that herschel is vastly superior to knowshon. herschel was bigger, stronger, faster and more durable than any back that has ever played the game without question. knowshon had the cutback ability, but that’s all he had over herschel.
Dewayne
June 29th, 2009
12:10 am
1980 wins hands down! Herschel Walker was and always will be the GREATEST DAWG ever! Knowshon did not stick around long enough for us to get a total look at what he had to offer. GO DAWGS, SIC EM, WOOF WOOF WOOF!
Coach BoBo
June 29th, 2009
8:02 am
Yawn
chazzo
June 29th, 2009
8:56 am
Question is, do they beat Tebow and the Gators?
chazzo
June 29th, 2009
9:03 am
The 80s dogs never faced a team with an equivalent receiver corp. With all due respect to Sanchez and Hogue… Not that Sanford is as good as Marino, but they did lose against Pitt… and Penn State? with talented quarter backs. AC is also absolutely right about the lines of today compared with twenty or thirty years ago. I don’t think it would depend on which Herschell showed up, it would depend on which personality the 2007 team showed up with… the manic one that beat the snot out of overrated Hawaii and partied in the Jax endzone or the depressive one that played Tennessee.
chazzo
June 29th, 2009
9:05 am
Shoot… what about special teams?
Otto
June 29th, 2009
11:12 am
Chazzo Erk was also not calling the shots for the ‘81 and ‘82 bowls.
chazzo
June 29th, 2009
12:37 pm
Good call, Otto. Erk is a big x-factor in this comparison. What a great coach. I try to lay off Willie, but the Richt and the dogs could use some of that venom from an Erk Russell or Mickey Andrews type guy. Head butting players… blood running down his face. Glorious!
chazzo
June 29th, 2009
12:50 pm
South Carolina did in the Dooley in 85 by stacking the line and pooching kickoffs. The dawgs never got any momentum off kick returns and couldn’t run with line backers standing right behind the line. Did Dooley alter his gameplan? Heck no. It was like he would rather lose than have another coach force him to adjust. And, perhaps there was nothing to adjust to. That was the Todd Williams/Dukes/can’t play a black QB/Jackson/Johnson years. I do have a strange admiration for that kind of stubbornness (not the black QB thing). One thing I will give ol’ Vince. It creates an attitude in the players to make them go out there like that. Here’s the gameplan. Are you man enough to win? I think that would build a great deal of confidence. Sometimes a trick play (see onside kick vs. UF) says the only way we can score is to be shifty because we aren’t as good as you. Love Richt, but I think he could learn from stubborn ol’ Vince down in the red zone sometimes. “Man up and get it done or be losers. What will it be?” Of course, what do I know, I played basketball for a crappy little high school in central FL.
Otto
June 29th, 2009
1:21 pm
Chazzo UGA needs that guy on the sideline even if not at DC. I would love to see Pollack back as DL coach. Kirby Smart who is a UGA grad is DC over at Bama. We should see if it was injuries or CWM this fall.
The red zone was also much better with CMR calling the shots before Bobo. The past fews have seemed to have a couple of plays that get called all to often. UGA has plenty of weapons Bobo needs to learn to mix it up more.
You mention special teams the defense would rarely get good starting field position. All 3 parts of the game needed improvement last year.
Coach D
June 29th, 2009
3:43 pm
The 1980 team might not be big, but the did not, repeat did not, lack talent. There were lots of NFL talent on that team. I hear what people are saying about the size and speed of the game, and I’m not underestimating that. But that’s like saying the teams in the 90’s couldn’t hang with today’s Dawgs and it’s just not true. Hines Ward, Matt Stincomb, Rob Edwards, Champ Bailey are as good or better than anyone who has played for UGA in this decade. Terry Hoage, Garrison Hearst, Rodney Hampton, Guy McEntrye, Freddie Gilbert, Herschel were all great in college AND the NFL and would stomp a mudhole in most of these kids today because these kids are soft. Raw Talent does triumph over a team that just has heart and little talent. But if a team with just Raw Talent and no heart plays a team with Talent and Heart( which past Bulldog teams plenty of both), the team with just Raw Talent loses.
Natureboy809
June 30th, 2009
10:21 am
Wow at some of the idiots in this thread. The game has changed SO much since 1980. The 2007 team would win by 50+. Herschel would still be the best player on the field, but the 1980 team’s BIGGEST offensive lineman weighed in at 265 lbs. They would lose the battle in the trenches so bad that not even IMO the greatest player in CFB history, Herschel Walker, would be able to do anything. On the other side of the ball, with 300+ lb road graters blowing 250 lb DTs off of the ball, Knowshon would probably get 6 yards before contact on every snap. It would literally look like a HS team playing against the 2007 team.
chazzo
June 30th, 2009
5:58 pm
I actually think it was Vandy that did that to the dawgs in 85. I just remember black uniforms. One thing I will say over and over is I like what I am hearing from the players this season… All work ethic and team… very refreshing. And, only a couple of ‘em in the doghouse and none in the jailhouse.