Happy Hour: Herschel vs. Knowshon
I thought we’d head into the weekend with one of those imponderable but nevertheless fun discussions that come up so often over a few beers, matching up two great teams from different eras and arguing about who would win.
Part of the problem in doing this, of course, is that modern era players are much bigger and faster than those from decades ago. So the 1942 national champion Georgia team probably would get killed by an average team from today, despite having Frank Sinkwich and Charley Trippi in the backfield.
Even the 1980 national championship Dogs technically would be at a weight and speed disadvantage against a 21st century team. But then they did have Herschel and a helluva defense, which might be the equalizer.
In this game for the ages, I’d put them up against the 2007 Dogs, a team that lost a couple of games (one badly) but finished the season as a juggernaut.
Think about the possibilities: The 1980 SEC and national champs with Walker, Buck Belue, Lindsay Scott, Jimmy Payne, Eddie Weaver, Scott Woerner and company against a team that didn’t win its division but finished No. 2 in the nation, thanks to Matthew Stafford, Knowshon Moreno, Mohamed Massaquoi, Marcus Howard, Jeff Owens, Kelin Johnson and others.
The first inclination would be to favor the 2007 team just because you’d figure that even with Herschel, Vince Dooley’s 1980 offense couldn’t keep up with Mark Richt’s 2007 scoring machine. But then I start wondering whether the 2007 defense really could stop Walker. And whether that stout 1980 defense might not be able to shut down Stafford.
It would be a great game either way. Who do you think would win?
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
187 comments Add your comment
Kevin
June 27th, 2009
6:21 am
I am a GT man. 1977-81. Season ticket holder since and always UGA away games. THWG! But…Hershel is the best UGA player ever and it isn’t even close. Absolute domination when EVERYONE knew he was getting the ball. HW is the best college player I have ever seen; only Bo Jackson is even in his range. 1980 and Vince knew how to win. They would find a way. Moreno? lol
gary
June 27th, 2009
7:18 am
No doubt the 80 team wins this game. They had Belue at the helm and he had the heart of a champion beating in his chest. The offensive line opened big holes for Herschel, and the defense bent but DID NOT BREAK. Also had great place kicker in Butler, and Scott WOerner was MUCH better than any one of the defensive backs we had on defense in 07. Moreno was avery good player, but we have a tradition of great backs at UGA. the 2002 team would have been abetter match up!! Another point the Dawgs under Dooley KNEW HOW TO AND DID BEAT THE GATORS REGULARLY!!!!!!!!
Frank Lane
June 27th, 2009
7:36 am
1980 team destroys 2007. Not even close.
Red Dawg
June 27th, 2009
8:20 am
ERK is the BIG difference! 2007’s talent+ ERK style D.2007 wins all day,every day.
Yeller Skeeters Are Peter-Eaters
June 27th, 2009
8:29 am
Who cares? They are both gone, and I personally don’t give a frog’s fat a$$ what they do once they leave UGA. Look forward, not behind, because there will NEVER be another Herschel, and Moreno couldn’t wash Herschel’s jock. You never saw HW removing himself from the game every time UGA got inside the red zone, either.
Cuz
June 27th, 2009
8:35 am
There goes Herschel, there goes Herschel……..
Tull
June 27th, 2009
8:38 am
Herschel and company win without a doubt. That team’s defense would have shut down Knowshon and left Stafford running for his life.
Cuz
June 27th, 2009
8:39 am
I forget what game, I saw Herschel carry four defenders into the endzone from the five yard line. One DB had jumped on him at the ten. He powered his way end, shook them off like a dog shakes himself after a bath. And handed the ball to the nearest ref. Herschel never spiked the ball in the endzone.
meansonny
June 27th, 2009
8:53 am
I love the ‘80 team. But lets ask the question this way.
2007 UGA versus 1980 Tennessee
2007 UGA versus 1980 Clemson
2007 UGA versus 1980 Mississippi
2007 UGA versus 1980 South Carolina
2007 UGA versus 1980 Florida
2007 UGA versus 1980 Notre Dame
As great as the 1980 Dawgs were… they were in a lot of close games against average athletes the way we made them back in 1980.
This is a team sport. Herschel didn’t run up the score on any competition. He was the sole option. And the opposing teams knew it. Herschel scored anyway. But those 6 opponents listed above were beaten by 1 score or less.
meansonny
June 27th, 2009
8:57 am
I’d like to see the lineups another way.
1980 starters (weight, height, recorded 40 time, bench, squat, and vertical) listed against the 2007 starters (weight, height, recorded 40, bench, squat, and vertical).
Take those stats and ship them off to Las Vegas. Vegas is never “right on”. But they give you a good impression of how things might go. Odds would probably lean towards 2007.
If 1980 was going to win… 2007 would have to be coughing the ball up with mistakes and shooting themselves in the foot. Could very well happen. But if the game was played in January, I believe the 2007 team would efficiently protect the ball and win by 10+.
FRED
June 27th, 2009
9:03 am
Enter your comments here
FRED
June 27th, 2009
9:04 am
HERSCHEL WAS ONE OF A KIND PERIOD END OF DISCUSSION
AltamahaDawg
June 27th, 2009
9:27 am
How about the 1979 team Vs the 2008 team???????? Now we would have to form actual thoughts.
Cuz
June 27th, 2009
9:33 am
Well since the 1979 team beat every SEC team but one, Auburn. I would have to give it to the 1979 team because the 2008 team lost two SEC games. And the 1979 team beat Florida and Tech.
doug
June 27th, 2009
9:41 am
This so easy its stupid. Any team from 2000 to 2008 would destroy the 1980 team. These guys today are so much bigger faster and stronger its insane. There is not an OL on the 80 team that could block Jeff Owens or Gino. Even though Richt teams dont have a lot of heart, they would wreck any team Dooley put up against them. I hate these comparisons. Ali vs Marciano. Please!!
AltamahaDawg
June 27th, 2009
10:01 am
Good job Cuz. Although they did play 2 SEC games less. And they did lose to SC,not yet SEC. And that goose egg they put up against Va. at home wasnt a highlight. I guess its fair to ask if 1979 UGA had to play 2008 Florida…..
I suppose expanding the debate would be decade of 70’s VS decade of 00’s.
or Blog VS decade of the 70’s. That would be B rutal.
Brian
June 27th, 2009
10:11 am
Are you kidding me? Is this a discussion? Knowshon and Moreno won an Outback Bowl or something like that! No comparison.
UGASlobberknocker
June 27th, 2009
10:24 am
Does anyone know if WSB will still be the flagship station for UGA under the new agreement with ISP?
dawgfanatic24-7
June 27th, 2009
10:26 am
The 1980 dawgs put us on the map. 3 conference championships and one national. No dispute we loved the ‘07 dawgs but teams are remembered by championships. 1980 dawgs would win. They didn’t know how to lose.
John
June 27th, 2009
11:28 am
The answer is in the question. The 1980 team against anyone? As much as I love March Richt, none of this teams can hold a candle to that 1980 team. For that to change, Richt will have to post an undefeated run and a national title. It’s the intangibles that win it, and that stout defense. Couple that with Herschel and a ball control offense? No competition.
shards
June 27th, 2009
11:39 am
The only current D team player from UGA that would hit any 1980 player and make him know his name by the end of the game is R. Curran. Last year’s corners, and safeties would have been embarassed by H. Walker, as he would have shed them after trying to tackle him with a shoulder, like in the tech game. That says it all. The 1980 D was leather tough physically and mentally. The 2008 D was neither.
Stafford would have thrown 4 pics because Hoague and Hipp, Kelly, SCOTT WOERNER and et al, would have shown him coverages that MS could not fathom. MS would have been QUICKLY frustrated and then he would have thrown a bunch of pics ………like he did under some pressure in the U of T game, when he had to then tackle their safety, otherwise THAT PIC would have been a TD for U of T.
1980 Dawgs win a hard fought close game and maybe on Butler’s 4 -field goals. HW would have two TDS and 235 yds vs. 212 for KM and maybe one td. 2008 3- pics and 2 fumbles ( kevin’s resulting FGs ) would allow 1980 team the victory.
superDawg
June 27th, 2009
11:42 am
eBUZZ YOU MIGHT GET ME TO RELAX ON gt FOR A SECOND,OK SECOND IS UP.
Ozzfest
June 27th, 2009
11:43 am
LET ME CLARIFY THIS……….KNOWSHON IS GREAT. HERSCHEL IS THE GREATEST. CASE CLOSED.
heeldawg
June 27th, 2009
11:45 am
As one who saw every home game (and many road games) that was played for both of these squads, the 1980 team would win without question. This was a team with solid defense, a never-say-die mentality, and the best football player of any era in its backfield. Herschel did things I’ve never seen before or since. For you latecomers who have only seen Walker on film, you wouldn;t even begin to make the argument for the 2007 team if you’d seen the man in person. It was an experience.
Truth be known
June 27th, 2009
1:07 pm
It sucks that you have to live in the past and go back to 1980 to talk about a national championship team. Is it just me or was that 29 freaking years ago? Man, that is pathetic.
And then you’re gonna talk about how great a 2007 team was that lost 2 games, Let’s examine that 2007 team that everyone thinks is so great because they won their last 5 games. They should have lost to Vandy and if not for Vandy fumbling the ball as they’re about to put the game away the dawgs surely lose that one.
Then they, beat a Florida team that lost 3 other games and whose star player Tebow was obviously playing injured with the shoulder injury, then you beat an Auburn team that wasn’t very good, same with an awful Tech team, then you beat an overwhelmed Hawaii team from a pansy conference that had no business being in a bcs bowl game to begin with.
This is a team that lost at home to a Carolina team that didn’t go bowling and that got the living hell beat out of them by a average Tenneessee team. Speaking of that great teams either go undefeated or lose one close game on their way to a title.
A 2 loss team including one of the losses by a blowout margin is not a great team. What’s wrong with you folks? What kind of koolaid do you guys drink that makes you think the 2 loss 2007 team was such a bunch of worldbeaters?
Pi$$onaDAWG
June 27th, 2009
1:26 pm
Walker’s Team couldn’t win. After Hershel runs for close to 3 thousand yards in the first half, and gets close to the Tech 222-0 Cumberland score by himself he will have to rest. KNOW SHOW will get the ball to the 20 and need a rest and Matt will do all the passing to MO MASS and now Mo Mass can catch right? WALKER MY DAWG would pat knowshow on the butt and ask him if he ever met Bill Bates or played against “BO”.
shane#1
June 27th, 2009
1:41 pm
Twentyfirst century football is a completely different game! Possibly the 1980 team would have stood a chance against the 2007 team had they had access to modern training methods and coaching, but no way Dooley’s three yards and a cloud of dust offense wins today. They just didn’t score enough points. As for the 1980 defense, Nando, Trenton, and the Big Cheese would have pushed those undersized linemen right off the field. Knowshon would have had a field day, along with Thomas Brown! Then the D backs would have been left standing in their tracks by Sean Bailey and Mo-Mass. They would be just too slow. As a matter of fact, who would have covered Durham at 6′5″? Some 5′8″ corner? Yeah football is different today. The Old Ball Coach changed SEC football forever. Today’s game is speed, speed, and more speed. As Bear Bryant once said,”when you go to the track, always bet on the jockey with the fastest horse!” The 1980 tean had heart and was a great team, FOR IT’S TIME! BTW, I am old school and love a tough D. I used to argue football with Buck about using the pass to open up the running game and winning with the D and that sort of thing, but this old cat has changed his spots. Buck was right. Look at the scoring averages of UF and LSU when they won their BCSCGs. Want to win the BCS, then average over 40 pts a game.
Dawgtime
June 27th, 2009
2:08 pm
Apples to oranges. In the 1980’s, college football was built around running the ball and defending the run. Recall the split 60 defense with the rover. Today’s game is based on passing the ball. Players today are bigger, faster, and stronger. In terms of Knowshon vs Herschel, Knowshon is a great running back. Herschel is the greatest running back that ever played college football. If he had played his senior year, he would still hold most of the rushing records. Notice most of the runner that are ahead of him played four years. He changed the game. 6′2 225 with 4.3 speed. After him came him backs like Bo Jackson. If the two teams played, the modern team would have a huge advantage because of the size factor.
wp
June 27th, 2009
2:33 pm
You’re kidding right. The 80’s DAWG defense would chew up Stafford and Morino. Hershal & Co. would destroy the 2008 Defense.
Phil McCrotch
June 27th, 2009
2:40 pm
Let’s Be Honest says…. I doubt whether GT will EVER have the longest winning streak in the UGA/GT rivalry. 7 straight. BWAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!
ok, let’s be honest. Tech actually does have the longest winning streak at 8 in a row. Most everyone knows that except you.
Still laughing dumbass?
Phil McCrotch
June 27th, 2009
2:41 pm
By the way- 1980 team. no contest
Dawgtime
June 27th, 2009
3:02 pm
The thing that separated the two great backs was size and speed. Herschel was bigger and much faster. 4.5 to a sub 4.3. Both were warriors. Hello AJC, the number 1 HS player in state and the number 1 DB in the nation just committed to UGA. Where are the headlines? Oh he said no to at least 50 schools including GT and Florida. Smart kid. Welcome to the nation.
Michael Adams Sucks and so does Paul Johnson
June 27th, 2009
4:04 pm
Herschel and company dominates. Period.
KJ
June 27th, 2009
4:30 pm
“After Hershel runs for close to 3 thousand yards in the first half, and gets close to the Tech 222-0 Cumberland score by himself he will have to rest”
Well, Herschel might be able to do that, if UGA forced a small college that disbanded their football team a year earlier to send over 11 intramural frisbee players under the threat of lawsuit. But UGA has too much class to do such a thing.
Anyway, lots of ignorance in this blog. It doesn’t matter how the ‘80 team fared against ‘80 competition, it matters how they WOULD fare against a team that likely has a significant size/speed advantage. If you still think that doesn’t matter, go back and watch the film from the Sugar Bowl vs Hawaii, and pay attention to what happened on the lines.
FloridaDawg
June 27th, 2009
4:46 pm
Walker controls the game and Erk’s defense does it’s job.
‘80 team 28….’07 team… 16.
Cuz
June 27th, 2009
4:48 pm
Mr. McCrotch you are definitely correct on the win streak. And when that streak was broken by UGA we ordered rings. Okay we did not order rings. But we retired Theron Sapp’s jersey. Good football player but retiring a jersey just for a touchdown sounds as silly as ordering rings for a three point win. IMHO. Have a good weekend.
No way the 2007 defense stops Herschel. The guy would still be the biggest, strongest back that the 2007 defense would face. Moreno jumped over a player. Herschel would jump over the entire defensive line, meet a linebacker in mid air and slam him backward into the end zone. Where he would find the nearest ref and hand him the ball. Very polite young man.
Cuz
June 27th, 2009
4:50 pm
Don’t forget Altamaha, I lived the 1979 season. The year of the Blunderdawgs. They were just blunderfull.
AC
June 27th, 2009
5:15 pm
What are you drinking?
Walker was fast and IS the greatest running back far superior to Knowshon and L. Scott was fast, but the modern game is decided by team speed. One player can no longer beat you. Look at the teams that UGA has faced that were one dimensional. Unless the 80’s team runs some form of Paul Johnson’s offense, they don’t win. Period.
meansonny
June 27th, 2009
5:28 pm
The 2007 team was very flawed. But they did improve.
And they finished the season as strong as anyone in the country.
By season’s end… they were without a doubt without flaws (outside of any character flaws that rolled over into the summer).
If the game was played in January 2008. The 2007 team would win.
It was posted earlier… A national championship team needs to score about 40 points per game today.
Sorry Buck… but 1980 wasn’t your year to be leading the Dawg Nation to 40 points per game.
The 2007 Dawgs averaged 38 points per game the last 6 games of the season. This included victories over Auburn (#6 nationally in scoring defense) & GT (#21 nationally in scoring defense)
And no… Herschel couldn’t jump the defensive line. Kade Weston is 6′5″. Jeff Owens is 6′3″. Add Geno. These athletes are 300 pounds.
They will be lining up against a very undersized offensive line.
shane#1
June 27th, 2009
5:51 pm
KJ, just my point. I think some of these guys are thinking about the 2008 team. You know, the one without the Big Cheese, Nando, Sturdivant, Jeff Owens, Marcus Howard, Thomas Brown, a healthy Battle, and Washington. Oh, and Brannen Southerland for half a season. That 2007 team, at least after Howard was fully recovered and Boling and Sturdivant had found their sealegs, would have beaten any UGA team from anytime, and dam near any other team.
Mark
June 27th, 2009
6:01 pm
AC and meansonny? Listen to this and verify if you like…..THE ND TEAM UGA played in the SUgar bowl was faster and bigger….on average they outweighed our offense and defensive lines by FORTY POUNDS per man! YOU CAN”T MEASURE HEART and THE SHEER WILLPOWER of a TEAM to win by ht and wt and charted fourty times….plus look at the data….the DB and LB were about the same as far as ht and wt……guess we should take curran out as a linebacker cause he is so small….?
icedawg
June 27th, 2009
6:41 pm
no contest 1980
meansonny
June 27th, 2009
6:50 pm
I believe in sheer willpower.
But I also believe in athletes.
Size is most important in the trenches. For Herschel, who would be the best player in the game, to be truly effective… he needs help in the trenches.
I’m guessing that the defensive lineman of ‘07 will outweigh the OL of ‘80 by an average of 60 pounds. And that’s mostly muscle.
I’m guessing that the Marcus Howard will have as much speed on the edge as the ‘80 team saw all season.
I’m also guessing that the ‘80 UGA team’s defense didn’t see an offensive line that averaged 305 pounds.
Nor did they face an arm as strong as Stafford all season.
What QB from their ‘80 season had a stronger arm than Stafford?
What team that they faced averaged 38 points per game down the stretch?
The ‘80 team most definitely could have won in that situation. But it would require sloppy play by the ‘07 team to accomplish the victory.
AC
June 27th, 2009
8:58 pm
Mark. Come on. ND was bigger in the trenches and faster in the skill positions. However, in today’s game the big men are not only bigger, they are fast. I am telling you that ND’s team did not have the athletes we have today along the line. That is the bottom line. Any football analyst would tell you that. That is what separates the SEC from every other conference in today’s game. The men in the trenches.
Listen, I love the 80’s team and they were a far better team in their era. But they would be a good Big 10 team today. Good skill positions, solid on the lines, but do not have the COMBINATION of SIZE and SPEED of today’s SEC team in the trenches. The only reason they would be good is because of Herschel.
Mister T
June 27th, 2009
9:25 pm
I’a a Tech fan and even I think this is weak. The title of the blog is no contest, but even I remember the 1980 dawgs. The beat 2007 and trounce 2008 versions.
THWg!
ShutUpMutt
June 27th, 2009
9:50 pm
No way 1980 wins. Have you seen bodybuilding competitions in the 80s compared to today? Same thing with football. 21st century football is bigger, faster, tougher… you name it. Herschel couldn’t run over today’s football players like he did back in 80.
Mark
June 27th, 2009
10:22 pm
Stafford had the strongest arm ever…..I’ll agree …but who cares!….guess what…he never even won the east…enough said! Give me a leader any day…not someone thats waiting around for draft day.
We had to average 38 points down the stretch cause we had no DEFENSE! By the way the season starts with the first game…not the stretch….
I LOVE OUR “O” NOW!!!! I JUST WISH THE “D” had the soul of the old days!
Guy by the name of Guy Mycantire(sp) (Guard) played in the 80’s…undersized….played in three,,,four super bowls with SF Niners…SIZE AND SPEED ON PAPER DON”T MEAN FECAL MATTER!
AC you contradict yourself….you say ND was bigger and faster….my point exactly!
“THE only reson they would be good is becuase of Herschel” …..DO you realize how many players from the 1980-1983 era beacame All AMericans…All SEC….PROs?
Marcus Howard….who does he play for now? I can name 5 NFL Hall of famers…that Herschel made look like boys amoung men….one was a guy by the name of bates that played for Dallas for what…10 years…all pro…Had a drink with him one night…..any era.. college or pro’s….Walker! HEART and LEADERSHIP!!!!
If our modern day Defense could match the Offense we would be in the NC picture year in year out…..we need less of the players that use UGA as stepping stone for the pros and more guys that bleed UGA!
shane#1
June 27th, 2009
10:30 pm
DB and LB may have been about the same as far as ht and wt but what about speed? I would wager that the LBs in 2007 were as fast as the dbs in 1980. Don’t forget that Howard ran a 4.45 at the pro combines in 2008. Howard was a 245 lb DE! 250 or 260 was OG weight in 1980! Just what OT from 1980 would keep Howeard out of the backfield? Also remember that HW’s main strengths were straight ahead power and speed. Herschel could NOT cut back against the grain. Owens, Atkins and Washington could deny him the middle and with Curran and Gamble on the outside, along with Battle, who was healthy that year. Just where would Herschel run? You guys keep talking about heart, did Thomas Brown not have heart? How about Kelin Johnson winning the starting safety job at 185 lbs, did he not have heart? Does Renee Curran not have heart? Sorry boys, but there is no way Belue and Scott win that game, so the UGA of 2007 has a relatively slow, undersized D and Herschel to beat. A Herschel with an O line that can’t block the D. The closest modern team that I can think of that would compare to the 1980 team would be Wake Forest with Herschel in the backfield. Wake is a smart, well coached team with a lot of heart. Wakes’s problem is that they are too small and too slow to ever get within sniffing distance of a BCS title.
ShutUpMutt
June 28th, 2009
12:09 am
You people are crazy if you think the 1980 team could beat the 2008 team. The bar has been raised significantly in the past 28 years. The players in the 80s couldn’t stand up to the ones today. Herschel is a great player, but not compared to today’s defenses. NO WAY.
Let me also add (as a tech fan) that GT could stop Herschel and all of his personalities just like we stopped Knowshon.
See you b!tches next year.
Tonto
June 28th, 2009
1:12 am
Take it from an unbiased(Clemson Tiger) observer: Knowshon Moreno was great, but……
Hershel Walker was the greatest football player I ever saw in person. You can say what you want about Moreno, and I would add a ditto from me, but Hershel was the best. Add him to any team, especially the UGA team of circa 1980, and …. they could beat, then and now, any team UGA produced.
Munson: “My God,… he’s only a freshman!!! ” (Vs. Tennessee, 1st Game)
Incidentally, Hershell never scored against Clemson. Never.