Time to put Hall of Fame vote on shelf, overhaul system
Chipper Jones will be in Hall of Fame one day. But how does Fred McGriff get only 118 votes while Craig Biggio gets 388? (AJC photo)
Junk it. Fix it. At the very least, put all of this on a shelf for a while and let it breathe.
Maybe the whole system needs to be blown up. Maybe the voting populace needs to be redefined, or at least shrunk to a more workable size (enough to fit into small boardroom).
Maybe the powers of baseball and the Hall of Fame can issue some sort of declaration like, “This is what qualifies as cheating. That is what doesn’t.”
Or, “Frankly, we don’t care who did what.”
But right now the system stinks. It’s broken. When Craig Biggio gets more than three times as many votes as Fred McGriff, it’s totally broken. Something needs to change or everything needs to change. The only certainty is that whatever needs to be fixed won’t be done before 2014 ballots being mailed out.
So take a year off from elections. Maybe two years. Let it breathe — not like a fine wine, more like an old meat locker that needs disinfecting.
The only people who really would be upset about such a move would be those who are becoming eligible and obviously deserve to be honored, including Greg Maddux and Tom Glavine 2014 and John Smoltz in 2015.
They can wait. They’ll have their day. This is more important.
The results of this year’s Baseball Hall of Fame election were unveiled Wednesday. Nobody got in. The only winner was the U.S. postal service. Junk mail has had more impact than the 569 ballots that were mailed in.
Nobody can agree on Barry Bonds, who received 36.2 percent of the vote in his first year of eligibility, less than half the amount needed (75 percent). Nobody can agree on Roger Clemens, Mark McGwire, Sammy Sosa or anybody else associated with performance-enhancing drugs to varying degrees.
Nobody, inexplicably, can agree on guys like McGriff, Jack Morris or Tim Raines, all of whom were checked on my ballot, but not enough.
The thumbs down given to Barry Bonds, Rogers Clemens and other suspected steroids users was one thing the voters did right.
Too few (18.6 percent) again checked the box next to Dale Murphy, despite the consecutive MVP awards and the fact he was fueled on nothing stronger than milk and Froot Loops.
Murphy was typically classy Wednesday. He thanked family members, fans and some media members for support. He was grateful for this year’s voting “bump.” But even he cracked, “Maybe I should’ve retired after 1988 — I would’ve had a better chance. But I played through some injuries. I could’ve gone to the American League as a DH, but I wasn’t thinking about the Hall of Fame, I was thinking about winning.”
If the Veteran’s Committee ever votes Murphy in, he should get his own wing.
The top vote-getter this year was Craig Biggio. Craig … Biggio.
How many times did anybody watch Craig Biggio play and think, “Now there goes one of the all-time greats”? How is he named on 388 ballots and McGriff on 118?
We need more time to let the PED issue play out. We need clarity on the voting process and the criteria. It’s clear that 569 voters were on 569 different pages.
If the Cooperstown gatekeepers seek to take the vote away from the baseball writers association, I’m completely OK with that. The media’s job should be to provide coverage and perspective on news, not be the news. It’s why most major newspapers, including The Atlanta Journal-Constitution, no longer allow writers to vote in college football polls or season awards. The Hall of Fame has been an exception because it’s a post-career honor. Besides, what’s Dale Murphy going to buy my vote with — a cheeseburger and fries?
Between suspected steroids-users Bonds, Clemens, Sosa, McGwire and (to a lesser degree) Jeff Bagwell, Hall voters rejected winners of eight MVP awards, seven Cy Youngs and eight home run champions. Bonds (1), Sosa (8), McGwire (10) and Rafael Palmeiro (12) rank among career home run leaders.
Michael Weiner, the players union’s executive director, reacted as you would expect a shill would: “To ignore the historic accomplishments of Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens is hard to justify. To penalize players exonerated in legal proceedings … is simply unfair.”
Not really. If they cheated the game, all bets are off. That’s my opinion. Obviously some disagree. We need a uniform set of criteria. We need better than what have. And there should be no rush to get to the next vote.
By Jeff Schultz
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329 comments Add your comment
Hillbilly D
January 10th, 2013
1:12 pm
Jeff, whoever watched Tim Freaking Raines and thought ““now there goes one of the all-time greats”?
Me. .294 lifetime BA, 385 lifetime OBP, 808 SBs, and the guy changed the tone of the game every time he got to 1B. He was also a good defensive player, other than his arm.
Sean Payton
January 10th, 2013
1:18 pm
You cant compare someone at 18-21 with 34-40.
Everyone gets bigger. At 18 I was 180 lbs with no muscles. At 28 i am 221
I didnt take steroids. I worked out everyday.
Buddy Steroidz Selig
January 10th, 2013
1:19 pm
“My fellow gullible MLB fans,
I want to give you my stance on the reportedly use of steroids under my watch as Commissioner. There were some minor leaguers playing around with steroids but I quickly banned those nobodys. You people really think that Mark McGwire & Barry Bonds used steroids. I’ll have you know that both suffer from a new disease called “pumpkin growth”. This doctoral term was coined by Dr. Detroit due to the swelling of a MLB players head in year 10 of their careers. It only effects a few players but surprisingly usually the better players. I have my team of overpaid employees and doctors looking into reversing the effects of this disease while I speak. The medical doctors throughout America will falsely tell you that this enlarged cranium is due to steroids usage. I stringently tested MLB players in the off season for steroids. There was no need to test them during the season since they were too bust traveling. It was about logistics people. I’m the man in MLB. Donald Fehr and the owners trust me blindly and support my actions. I’m the fox guarding the henhouse but no one cares. I’m with Brent Musberger though,that Auburn chick dating the Bama qb is hot.”
Brown
January 10th, 2013
1:19 pm
Seems to me the BBWAA is a group afraid to think for themselves- turning in blank ballots, inability to vote people in their first year, inability to elect a Single Freaking Player in 2013! These guys need to man up and vote for who think deserves to get in rather than worrying about voting differently from their peers. Have some backbone.
Hillbilly D
January 10th, 2013
1:22 pm
I didnt take steroids. I worked out everyday.
Did your head double in size? That’s usually the dead give-away for PED use.
Rick Petty
January 10th, 2013
1:25 pm
My uncle Richard Petty Nascar King & HOFer cheated by using illegal parts,fixing races,and wrecking potential winners but he’s in the Nascar HOF. That cheating Dale Earnhardt (RIP) wrecked Rusty Wallace every race to increase his chances to win races and he’s in the HOF. I guess MLB has higher standards ?
Hillbilly D
January 10th, 2013
1:29 pm
Richard Petty’s nephews are Tim, Ritchie and Mark. Just sayin’.
Trey Atkins
January 10th, 2013
1:29 pm
If Barry Bonds daughter married Sammy Sosa’s son and had a baby you could call Guiness book of world records for the new largest headed baby ever !
Rick Petty
January 10th, 2013
1:30 pm
I’m a nephew by marriage. I assumed the Petty name for monetary benefits.
dh
January 10th, 2013
1:33 pm
Couldn’t agree more. Murphy and McGriff should be there. Let’s hope the Veterans Committee is smarter than the baseball writers.
Rick Petty
January 10th, 2013
1:35 pm
Hey Sean, yeah your now 221 with no muscles…
Luke
January 10th, 2013
1:36 pm
I agree with Sean. I was 18 and had a 30 inch waist. Now I’m 45 with a 47 inch waist. We all get bigger.
Chill
January 10th, 2013
1:38 pm
I’m sorry. I hear the name Craig Biggio I don’t think HOF. I think very good for a very long time. In my book you have to be GREAT for substantial amount of time to even merit consideration. Now if I say the name Derek Jeter, there’s nothing to think about. That how it should be with the HOF. If we have to sit down to think, discuss & debate then that player shouldn’t go in. I’m a die hard braves fan that Loves Murph & McGriff and respects the hell out of Biggio but they are not HOF worthy in my book. I guess they will just have to settle for being HOF People.
Hillbilly D
January 10th, 2013
1:43 pm
I’m a nephew by marriage.
So you’re from the Owens side?
blue
January 10th, 2013
1:45 pm
Just the fact that Biggio didn’t get in on the first ballot indicates that the system is broken. Who knows? Maybe Maddox, Glavine and Smoltz won’t get in on the first ballot? What a joke.
Hillbilly D
January 10th, 2013
1:51 pm
Just the fact that Biggio didn’t get in on the first ballot indicates that the system is broken.
There have only been 39 first ballot guys (excluding the original 5) in the history of the Hall of Fame. Biggio will get in, in 2-4 years, probably.
Chill
January 10th, 2013
2:00 pm
Greg Maddux, Tom Glavine & Frank Thomas. 3 Guys that should walk/stroll/moonwalk into the HOF without discussion and that’s how it should be.
beebee
January 10th, 2013
2:00 pm
Fred McGriff? Hall of Fame?
BWAAAAAAA HAAAAAAAAAAAA HAAA HAA BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAAA!
Brown
January 10th, 2013
2:01 pm
I think Biggio is worthy: 3,000 hits, 15th most runs scored all-time, 18th most times on-base all-time. Lots of stolen bases with high success rate, 4 golden gloves, 5 silver slugger, .363 OBP for his career.
Yeah, maybe he wasn’t flashy or cocky like a lot of ’superstar’ players, but he played the game 100% all the time, and played a 20 years consistently at a high level offensively, defensively and on the bases.
LawDawg
January 10th, 2013
2:10 pm
TRIVIA TIME: Who was the first player to fail a steroid test when they got the new testing rules in?
It is exactly who you think, a true slugger…oh, wait, it was actually Alex Sanchez who had 5 career home runs (or so).
My point is: Everyone was juicing, so why would we not put the best juicers in the hall of fame, the same way the best spitballers and bat-corkers are in the hall?
JSS
January 10th, 2013
2:12 pm
It is always great when Hillbilly D shows up on a blog, the Blog IQ gains 25 points every time… And it doesn’t take 16 paragraphs to get it done!
LawDawg
January 10th, 2013
2:14 pm
DP – you suck at analogies. The peak years for a power hitter are 26-30 (particularly power hitters). So…your point is that Barry Bonds had better years at 26-30 than 20-25. Impressive. He started juicing in 1998 after a potentially-career-ending injury. I freely admit that he was on the stuff when he hit 73. You know what else? I don’t give even the faintest hint of a damn about that. Alex Sanchez never hit 73 home runs. Neither did any of the other juicers.
Why exactly do you care so much about someone taking steroids? Is it so that you can feel better than a hulking multimillionaire who plays games for a living? If so, that is pretty sad.
Is it that you care about the “integrity of the game?” That is pretty sad, too. Stop elevating this to the level of myth and legend. It’s a freaking kids game where you hit a ball with a stick, not space travel.
LawDawg
January 10th, 2013
2:17 pm
“Just the fact that Biggio didn’t get in on the first ballot indicates that the system is broken. ”
HAHAHAHAHA!!! Seriously, Craig Biggio not getting in is a travesty?!? Are you kidding me? I guess you are a big fan of HBP.
LawDawg
January 10th, 2013
2:23 pm
Craig Biggio
career .281 hitter, .796 OPS
last all-star game was 10 years before he retired.
Led the league in runs twice, stolen bases once (a whopping 49), and doubles 3 times.
His only other bold stats are GP, HBP, and PA.
He only hit over .300 4 times
He averaged a whopping 14.5 HR/season and struck out nearly 1800 times.
Hall of Famer? Please.
LawDawg
January 10th, 2013
2:24 pm
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/biggicr01.shtml
And if anyone brings up WAR (a completely made up bunch of crap), you have already proven that you have no argument for him being a HOF.
DP
January 10th, 2013
2:26 pm
LawDawg, you either suck at reading or are intentionally avoiding the question. You can’t find any of the all time great hitters who didn’t become great until their 6th season other than Barroid Bonds. An earlier post of yours said he was HOF worthy before he started juicing, now you’re backtracking. And you’re saying that he started juicing in 1998 as if you somehow know that. The evidence suggests he started juicing about 1990-91 when he suddenly went from a 20 home run whiff machine to one of the best hitters in the league.
Yeah, it’s pretty sad to care about integrity, isn’t it? You’re a lawyer, does that mean anything you can get away with is OK, that you don’t need to adhere to the law or any code of professional ethics? Oh wait, bad analogy again, right?
jfreak13713
January 10th, 2013
2:26 pm
Release all the TEST RESULTS and anyone found to have cheated should be excluded from Hall of Fame forever. I know past generations had their ways of getting an advantage or race played a roll in them putting up the kinds of numbers they may not have if all races were allowed to play. Too bad! Can’t fix that problem and its an unnkown how Ruth would have hit a black pitcher or a black hitter would have hit a white pitcher. Frankly I’m tire of everything be based in race. If you cheated you are a bum and should be banned from the Hall of Fame. Right is right and wrong is wrong. There is NO GREY area.
LawDawg
January 10th, 2013
2:27 pm
Oh, and Biggio’s best power numbers came at ages 38 and 39. Just like Barry Bonds. Just saying.
LawDawg
January 10th, 2013
2:29 pm
“Right is right and wrong is wrong. There is NO GREY area.”
Get ready for a tough life, buddy.
Traditionalist
January 10th, 2013
2:37 pm
These melon-headed drug freaks are a shame to the sport. Yes the league looked the other way. Does that make it right – NO.
Stand up for something or fall for anything. Not everyone gets a trophy. Especially if you cheat.
Shultz, you are the worst kind of reporter. In a generation where ethics, morals and integrity are declining, your voice is perpetuating that fall. Shame on you just to see Bonds “The Injector” get a plaque.
These guys cheated. You are elected to the HOF based primarily on your numbers. PEDs change those numbers – period. Look at the pitiful excuse ARod is without PEDs. Just a normal hack, falling apart and only in the league becasue of his contract.
Come on people, stand up for the game. Stand for tradition. Stand for something. Don’t let your sorry excuses for ethics get in the way of the American pastime.
And you can tell Pete Rose to shut his mouth and put $20 on the Falcons to beat the spread….
LawDawg
January 10th, 2013
2:37 pm
DP – First, a lot of lawyers use cocaine as a performance enhancing drug. I don’t cry like a little Dale Murphy about them gaining an advantage.
Barry Bonds’ fifth year was .301-33-114, and an MVP at age 25, when lesser athletes are hanging out in AA. I guess we are calling that a bad year? Ok, then. Oh, right. Then he won MVP’s 2 out of the next 3 years (and finished second the other year). That was a pretty bad career. He physically did not look any different (certainly not steroid different) until he missed the end of 1999 with a career-threatening injury. 2000 on is steroid years.
Before that, all he did was win 3 MVPs, finish 2nd another year, and go 40-40. Other than that, your argument is sound.
LawDawg
January 10th, 2013
2:38 pm
DP – you are literally the only person who thinks he juiced in 1990. If you are going to argue from completely made up facts, I’m not sure what to do. He improved from age 24 to age 25. I watched all of his games those years. He did not suddenly become enormous, he just got better as does every athlete that age.
LawDawg
January 10th, 2013
2:41 pm
DP – Also, I’m not talking about integrity generally. I’m saying this is baseball, not something important. It is a freaking GAME and the people who put all this extra BS meaning behind it clearly have something missing in their lives, which is why people like you get amped up over this: You want to feel like you are not as beneath Barry Bonds (or “Barroid” HAHAHA!! How clever!! Like Steroid!!) as you actually are. Deal with it.
Paddy O
January 10th, 2013
2:50 pm
dnny – character is one of the key elements/criteria to be considered when casting the ballot. those who have the authority to cast a ballot make that determination independently. If you think taking PEDS (PERFORMANCE enhancing drugs) is equal to drinking legal alcohol – that would be an equivalency failure / comparision error on your part. The writers – who must have at least 10 years of membership in BBWAA – have far more inside information than the average fan. I have ZERO problem with those who cheated regarding PEDS being omitted. It is fairly obvious that steroids have a substantial impact on player ability – strength, hand eye coordination, and precise reaction time appears to be profoundly altered in the players favor – otherwise, how does Brady Anderson smack 50 HR’s? And Bonds go from 35 or so HR to the record 73 he slammed? If you want to morally relativistic, that is your choice. Thankfully, others are not so gullible.
JSS
January 10th, 2013
2:55 pm
@ LawDawg…
Like I said, he had the quickest bat through the zone (in the period you described), you’re wasting your time trying to explain to most. They just hate the man. Right or wrong, only Ali (67-71) has felt heat like that… He would have hit between 550-625 on the pace he was on, people forget that… He hit 46 home runs in 1993 for goodness sake… No apology for the steroids, but he was like Frank Robinson without the throwing arm…
Paddy O
January 10th, 2013
2:59 pm
lawdawg – you don’t know diddly. 3000 hits 1800 RUNS scored. 146 runs one year; over 200 hits one year. over 600 doubles. he was a great player. pretend what you wish.
LawDawg
January 10th, 2013
3:03 pm
Paddy – I’m not “pretending” anything. I’m stating his mediocre stats. If you want to come all over a .281 lifetime batting average with no power, be my guest, but don’t act like there is no counterargument.
LawDawg
January 10th, 2013
3:04 pm
All of your stats are counting stats also. Long career =/= great career. 150 hits, 90 runs, and 30 doubles average per year does not impress me.
LawDawg
January 10th, 2013
3:04 pm
JSS – right on.
LawDawg
January 10th, 2013
3:06 pm
Wait…did you seriously just argue that steroids improve hand-eye coordination?
Brown
January 10th, 2013
3:06 pm
Impressing LawDawg is not one of the criteria
JSS
January 10th, 2013
3:16 pm
I generally stay out of the Biggio argument, but he was a jewel… His defense is forgotten, you won’t get his versatility in the field again… And he played 12 seasons in a power graveyard (the Astrodome)… Only once after age 33 did he not have more 555 plate appearances… Think about that for a moment…
Train Wreck Bystander
January 10th, 2013
3:39 pm
I believe the veteran’s committee will eventually do right by Murph.
varoadrunner
January 10th, 2013
3:45 pm
If you CHEAT you are disqualified! Simple and Sweet.
Bonds is the worst of them all – from a skinny, talented kid to THE HULK. No way!
The HOF is meant for people like Chipper, Jeter, Glavine, Maddux, Ripken, Ford, Berra etc.
On Rose…….He belongs in the HOF AS A PLAYER and of course not a manager. Our All Time leader in hits deserves to be in. He was a favorite of mine and I modeled my play by his.
Nuff from me
LawDawg
January 10th, 2013
3:53 pm
“Impressing LawDawg is not one of the criteria”
Ha! Maybe it should be. I am not easily impressed. Look, Biggio was a very good player and he always seemed to be a good clubhouse guy. I’m not crapping on Biggio.
I think the HOF has become WAY too inclusive. I would not even consider McGriff, Murphy, Biggio, and many other HOFers. Jim Rice? Nope. Blyleven? Nope. Lee Smith and Jack Morris? Hell no.
Being merely good is not what Cooperstown should stand for. Oh well, Connie Mack killed that chance in the 40s anyway.
DP
January 10th, 2013
4:09 pm
LawDawg, I’m off on Barroid by 1 year, it was his 5th year at age 25 when he broke out, not his 6th year at 26. Here were his batting averages, home runs and OPS in his first 4 seasons:
1986: .223, 16 and .746
1987: .261, 25 and .821
1988: .283, 24 and .859
1989: .248, 19 and .777
OK numbers, nothing to suggest a Hall of Fame caliber player. Then suddenly in 1990 he puts up an MVP season and never had an OPS of less than .924 for the rest of his career.
Look at any other great hitter in baseball history you like and find me one other than Barroid that took until his 5th season to become great.
DP
January 10th, 2013
4:17 pm
LawDog, at least we agree on something. The HOF shouldn’t be a Lifetime Achievement Award for players who pile up a lot of hits or wins because they play for 20 years. Biggio had a career OPS of .796.
LawDawg
January 10th, 2013
4:19 pm
Relevant metric is 25 years old, not seasons in majors. But let’s play:
Craig Biggio (your boy): Did not have more than 13 HR or an OPS above .747 until his 6th season, at age 27. Did not hit .300 until his 7th season, at 28.
Jeff Bagwell: Did not have more than 20 homers until his fifth season, at age 26.
Allen Trammel: 6th season, at 25, was his first good season.
That is just from a quick review of the stats of the 2013 HOF voting. So, your argument sucks.
DP
January 10th, 2013
4:31 pm
Where did Craig Biggio become my boy? I don’t think he should be in. And the relevant comparison group for Barroid since you proclaim him the greatest hitter of all time should be made up of guys like these:
Ted Williams (age 20-23): OPS of 1.045, 1.036, 1.287, 1.147
Joe Dimaggio (age (21-24): OPS of .928, 1.085, .967, 1.119
Stan Musial (age 21-25 with one year in WWII): .888, .988, .990, 1.021
Albert Pujols (age 21-24): 1.013, .955, 1.106, 1.072
Hank Aaron (age 20-23): .769, .906, .923, .978
JSS
January 10th, 2013
4:32 pm
@ DP…
Well you may not consider him great (or “juiced”), Jose Bautista, then regular types Jimmie Foxx, Harmon Killebrew, and in slight way Hank Greenberg…
The thing about Bonds, he only spent one season in low A at 20, then went straight to AAA, and was plopped down in the Majors at 22 (114 minor league games)… By comparison, Chipper Jones played 413 minor league games between being drafted and being called up…