Time to put Hall of Fame vote on shelf, overhaul system
Chipper Jones will be in Hall of Fame one day. But how does Fred McGriff get only 118 votes while Craig Biggio gets 388? (AJC photo)
Junk it. Fix it. At the very least, put all of this on a shelf for a while and let it breathe.
Maybe the whole system needs to be blown up. Maybe the voting populace needs to be redefined, or at least shrunk to a more workable size (enough to fit into small boardroom).
Maybe the powers of baseball and the Hall of Fame can issue some sort of declaration like, “This is what qualifies as cheating. That is what doesn’t.”
Or, “Frankly, we don’t care who did what.”
But right now the system stinks. It’s broken. When Craig Biggio gets more than three times as many votes as Fred McGriff, it’s totally broken. Something needs to change or everything needs to change. The only certainty is that whatever needs to be fixed won’t be done before 2014 ballots being mailed out.
So take a year off from elections. Maybe two years. Let it breathe — not like a fine wine, more like an old meat locker that needs disinfecting.
The only people who really would be upset about such a move would be those who are becoming eligible and obviously deserve to be honored, including Greg Maddux and Tom Glavine 2014 and John Smoltz in 2015.
They can wait. They’ll have their day. This is more important.
The results of this year’s Baseball Hall of Fame election were unveiled Wednesday. Nobody got in. The only winner was the U.S. postal service. Junk mail has had more impact than the 569 ballots that were mailed in.
Nobody can agree on Barry Bonds, who received 36.2 percent of the vote in his first year of eligibility, less than half the amount needed (75 percent). Nobody can agree on Roger Clemens, Mark McGwire, Sammy Sosa or anybody else associated with performance-enhancing drugs to varying degrees.
Nobody, inexplicably, can agree on guys like McGriff, Jack Morris or Tim Raines, all of whom were checked on my ballot, but not enough.
The thumbs down given to Barry Bonds, Rogers Clemens and other suspected steroids users was one thing the voters did right.
Too few (18.6 percent) again checked the box next to Dale Murphy, despite the consecutive MVP awards and the fact he was fueled on nothing stronger than milk and Froot Loops.
Murphy was typically classy Wednesday. He thanked family members, fans and some media members for support. He was grateful for this year’s voting “bump.” But even he cracked, “Maybe I should’ve retired after 1988 — I would’ve had a better chance. But I played through some injuries. I could’ve gone to the American League as a DH, but I wasn’t thinking about the Hall of Fame, I was thinking about winning.”
If the Veteran’s Committee ever votes Murphy in, he should get his own wing.
The top vote-getter this year was Craig Biggio. Craig … Biggio.
How many times did anybody watch Craig Biggio play and think, “Now there goes one of the all-time greats”? How is he named on 388 ballots and McGriff on 118?
We need more time to let the PED issue play out. We need clarity on the voting process and the criteria. It’s clear that 569 voters were on 569 different pages.
If the Cooperstown gatekeepers seek to take the vote away from the baseball writers association, I’m completely OK with that. The media’s job should be to provide coverage and perspective on news, not be the news. It’s why most major newspapers, including The Atlanta Journal-Constitution, no longer allow writers to vote in college football polls or season awards. The Hall of Fame has been an exception because it’s a post-career honor. Besides, what’s Dale Murphy going to buy my vote with — a cheeseburger and fries?
Between suspected steroids-users Bonds, Clemens, Sosa, McGwire and (to a lesser degree) Jeff Bagwell, Hall voters rejected winners of eight MVP awards, seven Cy Youngs and eight home run champions. Bonds (1), Sosa (8), McGwire (10) and Rafael Palmeiro (12) rank among career home run leaders.
Michael Weiner, the players union’s executive director, reacted as you would expect a shill would: “To ignore the historic accomplishments of Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens is hard to justify. To penalize players exonerated in legal proceedings … is simply unfair.”
Not really. If they cheated the game, all bets are off. That’s my opinion. Obviously some disagree. We need a uniform set of criteria. We need better than what have. And there should be no rush to get to the next vote.
By Jeff Schultz
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329 comments Add your comment
GB.s Hamburgers
January 9th, 2013
8:14 pm
Jeff, America is a dumbed down society. It looks like a pretty normal process with that in mind.
Hillbilly D
January 9th, 2013
8:15 pm
True, Morris’ ERA was a bit on the high side but remember he pitched his entire career against the DH, in the AL, which also tended to have smaller ball parks. That’s probably worth .15-.40 points on his ERA, depending on whose analysis you believe.
The thing I remember about him was that he was a big game pitcher.
Paddy O
January 9th, 2013
8:17 pm
For Mr. blabber mouths edification – biggio had 668 doubles – about 300 more than Dale Murphy; he also scored over 1800 runs – which is 600 more than Mr. Murphy; Murphy had less than 100 MORE RBI than Biggio – and Biggio was a lead off guy most of his life; Murphy’s job was to drive guys in. To feign support for Murphy and denigrate a genuine HOF career like Biggio indicates a fellow either braindead or drunk. Or, utterly biased. If biased, in the long line of work.
Paddy O
January 9th, 2013
8:18 pm
big game a lot – but in 92 with Toronto at a still rather young age of 37 (although with a ton of innings on his arm)- he got shelled in the WS twice – the Jay’s won inspite of him. Morris was a great pitcher. Just not HOF to me. Schilling is borderline. Might get in.
JSS
January 9th, 2013
8:19 pm
@ Hillbilly…
I was lucky enough to get him everyday from Detroit while in college in Michigan (we were 40 miles away) and I actually got a Detroit News subscription just to read him… Tremendous!
Paddy O
January 9th, 2013
8:20 pm
Mr. Dithers – Biggio also is #6 – that is RIGHT – #6 ALLTIME in doubles; with over 1800 runs scored. He did his job.
Mr. Dithers
January 9th, 2013
8:22 pm
I hear you, Jeff, but if it were that easy to hang around and get to 3000 hits, a lot more players would have done it. Biggio not only means longevity, but consistency, adaptability, reliability and good health. And all with the Astros. Something to be said for that.
Joey M
January 9th, 2013
8:22 pm
@Najeh Davenpoop
You tried to make the argument that Tyler Pastornicky and Paul Janish would be professional players if we still had 8 teams per league. Sorry, they wouldn’t. Everybody’s numbers would be different. May starting pitchers would not be pitching. The players today would be facing the best of the best. Everybody’s numbers would suffer. We still have players from Cuba that are not allowed to play. Are you really going to tell me that if we add the Cuban players that the players playing today would not be as good as they are today? That stats across the board would suffer?
Black and Hispanic players should have been in MLB, NFL, and NBA from day 1. Anything that eliminates a person because of the color of their skin is wrong. Just like telling somebody that they need Affirmative Action to get a job because that person cannot get that job on their own merit. One day, race will not count. I look forward to that day.
Hillbilly D
January 9th, 2013
8:25 pm
I’ve seen Nolan Ryan shelled, too. Every pitcher gets hammered from time to time. Morris has 38 more wins than Shilling and 563 more innings pitched in 2 fewer years than Schilling’s career.
Paddy O
January 9th, 2013
8:26 pm
say what you will – of all the guys mentioned by Mr. schultz – only 1 guy has definitive HOF #ers – BIGGIO. 3000 hits; over 1800 runs and #6 alltime in doubles. If Schultz did not consider Biggio great at any point in his career, his head was just too far up his bowels.
Paddy O
January 9th, 2013
8:30 pm
Only thing that gets Schilling borderline is his spectacular work during the post season. as indicated, borderline. other stat geeks indicate Schilling has the best K to walk ratio in the history of baseball. but, that would not get him in. at least with a 3.46 ERA he pitched consistently good. 3.9 is awful for consideration of the HOF.
Ken Stallings
January 9th, 2013
8:32 pm
In my firm view, it is well beyond disgraceful that the BBWAA failed to elect any player from this excellent lineup to the Hall of Fame. I completely agree with keeping the steroid tainted players like Bonds, Clemens, and McGwire out. However, that leaves a half dozen players on the ballot who should have been elected: Fred McGriff, Tim Raines, Craig Biggio, Jack Morris, and Mike Piazza. I’m also going to add Dale Murphy to that list but he should not even have been on this ballot because he should have been elected years ago.
There is nothing other than sheer arrogance to describe what is going on here. The BBWAA voters have turned stingy into stupid.
As a group, these voters should be ashamed of themselves. They as a group have created the most degree of controversy surrounding the Hall of Fame in its entire existence. Their conduct has brought shame upon the Hall of Fame.
Bud Selig should do two things immediately.
First, he should set up a committee of living Hall of Fame veterans to review the candidacy of all passed over players on this ballot and allow them to vote an unlimited number in. Included with that instruction should be strict direction that the steroid tainted players are not eligible for selection by this committee.
Second, Selig should strip the BBWAA of their privilege of voting for the Hall of Fame and that should be a permanent loss of the privilege.
Paddy O
January 9th, 2013
8:32 pm
Morris had 3800 IP; Schilling only 3200. so, the career is not too much different. also, schilling appeared in 569 games, morris 549, a little more than half a season. as stated, to me schilling is borderline.
Paddy O
January 9th, 2013
8:34 pm
I’d agree on Piazza too. Greatest slugging catcher of all time.
William
January 9th, 2013
8:34 pm
Bonds, Sosa, McGwire, should never and will never be included in the all time great players of baseball.
mid – level ability cheaters who used PID to excel.
They’re all like a 70 year old who pops a couple of V’s to brag to his buddies how he banged the stripper for a whole hour ….. Funny to watch but don’t belong in the John Holms HOF …
Paddy O
January 9th, 2013
8:34 pm
I’d agree on Piazza too. Greatest slugging catcher of all time.
JSS
January 9th, 2013
8:34 pm
Morris’s first years in Detroit were played with some of the worst outfields and corner players in baseball history… And people forget that in 1982, check his ERA, he came and had 33 decisions, that was huge, he pitched deep in games… Morris is an enigma like Carlton (not comparing them talent wise, personality)…
Jeff
January 9th, 2013
8:35 pm
Do a search on google of the top players of the 80’s (or similar) – it is near impossible to find one that does not include Dale Murphy.
For someone who grew up in the 80’s, Murph was easily seen as not just a “very good” or “great” player but clearly one of the few best. It would have been a joke to say Rice or Gwynn or Boggs were greater (given Murph’s HR/RBI production). Just look at the value of each one’s rookie cards at the time throughout the decade.
Murph will constantly be overshadowed by how minimal his stats looked compared to the Steroid Generation that came the next decade but just compare his stats from 1980 – 1987 versus any other player. This is NOT just a few years. And, yes Murphy was as much the top player (or 2nd or 3rd) in baseball for 5+ years as Koufax may have been the top pitcher for only 5 or so years.
Longetivity should be a factor in voting in a candidate but it should not be a must. Murphy played game after game for many years and just simply wore his body out without modern medical wonders to help him. Just like some cars are designed for high performance but short mileage and others for low speeds but long mileage, players like Murph had a high peak performance but short lifespan while others like Biggio were a medium performance but long lifespan.
The Hall of FAME – Murphy was indeed famous – I challenge you to ask anyone over 30 or so who has a slight wit of what baseball is and they will know who he is.
Paddy O
January 9th, 2013
8:37 pm
schilling played with some lousy Philly teams. for me, Morris is below the borderline. but, I watched him throw.
Hillbilly D
January 9th, 2013
8:37 pm
Piazza was basically a first baseman playing behind the plate. His defense wasn’t good.
Bud Selig can’t do anything about the Hall of Fame (that’s probably a good thing). The Baseball Hall of Fame is a separate entity, independent of MLB.
Paddy O
January 9th, 2013
8:38 pm
Jeff – if you offered to trade me Murphy for Rice i’d laugh my butt off. Rice was far, far better player.
JSS
January 9th, 2013
8:38 pm
As much I detest Barry Bonds when anybody calls him a “mid-level talent” that is just crazy talk…
Paddy O
January 9th, 2013
8:43 pm
5 + years, yes – but the drop off from that peak was precipitous. Rice had 8 excellent years, from 75 – 86, with very good years inbetween – and those peak years were better than Murphy’s peak years; Murphy’s peak was 5 great years in 6 years; with little prior and very good years after. Not sustained excellence. and, IMO, Rice was close to borderline. Make Murphy far below borderline. Heck, Dwight evans I’d rate higher than Murphy.
Paddy O
January 9th, 2013
8:44 pm
2 MVP years will get you famous.
Paddy O
January 9th, 2013
8:46 pm
I’d probably trade Fred LYnn for Murphy, but I’d have to think really, really hard.
Paddy O
January 9th, 2013
8:47 pm
plus, murphy is a well established great human. it is worth a lot.
Paddy O
January 9th, 2013
8:48 pm
BTW, in almost 3000 games played, Barry Bonds DOES NOT HAVE 3000 hits. He is a steroid baby.
JSS
January 9th, 2013
8:49 pm
I got to live in 5 of the great baseball towns in America in 1970s (Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Boston, New York City, and Chicago), in the 80s (Detroit, Boston, and Philadelphia)… I saw Clemente, Aaron, Frank Robinson, and Rose… I saw Gibson, Carlton, Palmer, and Jenkins multiple times… You guys are way too tough on Bonds, as young player he had the quickest bat in the zone I ever saw and that was faster than Aaron who was the gold standard… No juice can give you that, that is from Olympus…
wooooo
January 9th, 2013
8:50 pm
Just because Schultz doesn’t like the outcome doesn’t mean we need to blow the whole thing up.
Really?
January 9th, 2013
8:53 pm
Geez, who woke up on the wrong side of the bed?
I wouldn’t have voted any of this group in (maybe Dale). Just because no one is deemed worthy we have to junk the whole system? I think not.
Wish we could have done the same with the Presidential election honestly.
drew
January 9th, 2013
8:54 pm
You really are a non-stop complainer Jeff….the BEST statement I’ve heard about voting is not every great player goes to the Hall of Fame. There’s good, great, and then Hall of Fame. Dale Murphy peaked a few years…McGriff also.
Hillbilly D
January 9th, 2013
8:55 pm
JSS
To me that’s the sad part of the Bonds story. He was probably a Hall of Famer, without the juice. He has to live with his choices, though.
Not So Casual Observer
January 9th, 2013
8:58 pm
N. D…poop,
Truly sad the minorities are so intent on making RACE an issue in most everything.
The MLB players of any era have only those against whom they competed as a measuring stick. Babe Ruth was a truly remarkable athlete for his time and for ALL TIME. As far as I know he is one of only 2 players to hit at least 30 home runs in a year and steal home at least 10 times in his career. Lou Gehrig is the other.
Until the steroid era only ten players hit 50 or more home runs in one year; Ruth, Mantle, Maris, Kiner, Mays, Foster, Mize, Wilson, Fox and Greenburg. So, D. poop, only two minorities in the 35-40 years after Jackie Robinson were able to make the grade (given 50 as the grade). Now there are 25-35 and I do not care because most are cheaters after the first 10. What does this say? Likely nothing, just like your posts.
Ruth, by the way, hit 714 career home runs and spent the first years of his career in the “dead ball” era and as a pitcher.
Baseball, more than any sport, has relied on statistics to measure the greatness of players for over 100 years. GREATNESS as a measure kept the list of elected members empty for this year. So what?
In my view, using steroids taints the careers of those who are obviously guilty, despite the pleas of the union shill. OJ Simpson was found “Not Guilty” by the jury but that by no means makes him innocent. Same goes for the cheaters and Pete Rose. Never elect any of them.
I will close with a paraphrase from a Ted Williams interview. The writer attempted to diminish the “Splinter’s” career by suggesting he would have a difficult time with the relief pitchers and hard throwers of the years after Ted’s retirement. He finally asked, “What do you think you would hit against these pitchers of today?” Ted replied, “Probably about .325″. The writer asked “Only .325? But you were a .343 life-time hitter, why so much lower?” Well, Ted replied, “I am 73 years old.”
Paddy O
January 9th, 2013
8:58 pm
hmmm. our intrepidly pathetic reporter glibly states that biggio was NEVER great – over 200 hits in a season? NOT great? REALLY? He scored 146 runs one season – NOT great? REALLY? Perhaps Mr. Schultz is not doing his due diligence and is simply either padding his resume or waiting for retirement. hmmm.
Paddy O
January 9th, 2013
9:01 pm
JSS – without the power bonds got from his magic medicine, he was an excellent hitter – lousy, absolutely lousy defensive OF. His pre steroid hits never came close to 200. He lounged around 150 or so most years. After he got juiced, his gargantuan walk total really prevented him from getting hits – and, did not do much to help SF win the WS. Not much at all.
Mariage Parfait Gueze
January 9th, 2013
9:02 pm
How many votes did Tony G get?
Paddy O
January 9th, 2013
9:02 pm
wooo- yeah, that would like taking advice from your toddler on your monthly budget.
Jeff Schultz
January 9th, 2013
9:03 pm
George — “What a crock!!! Stop the hall voting because juicers didn’t get in? …”
<<< Is that what you got out of this?
JSS
January 9th, 2013
9:04 pm
Paddy O…
Dewey Evans should be in because I believe defense is an actual part of the game…
What I truly hate about the Hall of Fame is that it was devolved into either the Hitter’s HOF or the Winning Pitcher’s HOF…
HALL OF SHAME
January 9th, 2013
9:04 pm
MR SCHULTZ SHOULD BE THE ONE BLOWN UP, NOT THE HALL OF FAME…NO ONE ON DRUGS SHOULD BE IN…THE PLAYERS BEING SELECTED NOW ARE GENERALLY SUB PAR ANYWAY…..SCHELTZEEE SHOULD WRITE ABOUT SOMETHING HE KNOWS….HMMMMM..???…
Jeff
January 9th, 2013
9:05 pm
I agree that Biggio should be in – but his longetivity is the reason for it (similar to Ripken).
Both Biggio and Murphy were 7-time all-stars but Murphy won 2 MVP’s as well as Sports Illustrated Sportsman of the Year in 1987. Biggio was maybe player of the week a few times but never was thought as the top player in baseball.
Biggio also only hit over .300 4 times and his run totals were largely assisted by having Bagwell driving him in. Ultimately, Biggio’s high career #’s came from many good seasons with really no seasons where he was clearly seen as the best player in the game.
Longetivity is a rarity in baseball that players like Biggio should be rewarded for. However, on the other hand, players like Murphy should not be penalized entirely because their careers were not long.
Hillbilly D
January 9th, 2013
9:06 pm
I believe defense is an actual part of the game…
The Wizard is the only player to go in for defense, in a long time.
Jim
January 9th, 2013
9:10 pm
Mike Schimdt of Phillie had it right today. Sosa and the other guys all made a butt load of money in their career, playing “dirty” and now they will pay a price. End of story. The HOF may not be perfect in its selection process but it is far from broken. I do not look up to any sports figure as a role model as part of selection and/or awards. However, using steroids or HGH – CHEATING and I for one, do have a problem with that. Evidently, most of the selectors did too.
JSS
January 9th, 2013
9:12 pm
Oh that is all that guy got out of what Davenpoop said? The well was poisoned, you took away more than half of the players on the Earth and you expect people not to understand that it was not the best that was to be offered! It is human performance… It would be like I as a fan of track and field arguing that track distance races were better before the people in East Africa and the Rift Valley in Sub-Saharan Africa were finally allowed to train and compete… There is NO WAY that the difference cannot be seen!
tree rollins
January 9th, 2013
9:12 pm
The vote went exactly as it should have. The steroid guys completely rigged all their stats. Of the other guys, Biggio most closely fits the mold of longetivity and consistency, along with Morris. Murphy didn’t do it for long enough. Get over it!
tree rollins
January 9th, 2013
9:15 pm
Tim Raines was good on a team that had great players like Andre Dawson. Glavine and Maddox will get in – Rico Carty and McGriff will not (nor will Andrew Jones).
JSS
January 9th, 2013
9:15 pm
What the heck is 9:06? Long time since one of those slipped in…
GT Alum
January 9th, 2013
9:16 pm
Najeh -
Your assertion that players before 1957 didn’t have to play against Latin players is not exactly true. There were Latin players (primarily Cubans) in MLB since the early 1900s, and a number of Latinos were playing in MLB by the 30s and 40s. The distinction is that they had light skin, while Latino players that looked black were segregated in the Negro Leagues.
JSS
January 9th, 2013
9:20 pm
Hillbilly…
What are they going to do when Omar Vizquel comes up? SMH
T-Bone
January 9th, 2013
9:20 pm
Fans should get a vote. Retired players should get a vote. BB writers should get a vote. They should count a third each.