Vince Dooley: Joy from Georgia’s rise, pain from son’s firing
Vince Dooley's joy for Georgia's resurgence took a hit with his son's firing. (Brant Sanderlin/AJC)
On Sunday, when everybody associated with Georgia football was still basking in the afterglow of the season’s 10th victory and the anticipation of a dramatic flip at the top in the BCS standings, the Dooleys of Athens received a phone call from their son, Derek.
“I knew it was going to happen,” Vince Dooley said. “I felt for sure it was going to happen. Then on Sunday when he contacted us and told us, it was difficult. You hurt for your family. You hurt for your son.”
Seldom do the extreme highs and lows of competitive athletics collide like this.
Dooley hired Mark Richt and watched him win two SEC championships in his first five seasons. He saw the program slip back for a couple of seasons and Richt try to navigate through “crises” while four other SEC schools won six national championships and so many called for the coach’s head. Now the Bulldogs are more than relevant again. A second consecutive SEC title game berth awaits, a No. 3 national ranking provides a tease for something even greater and Richt has been listed as a national coach-of-the-year candidate.
“Coaching has always been about surviving a series of crises,” Dooley said Tuesday. “In Mark’s case, he had a charmed life. He didn’t have a lot of criticism until a couple of years ago. So I’m very pleased to see how he’s responded to that. He needed to right the ship and get back to the high standards again, and he’s done that. That doesn’t mean he won’t have another series of crises to deal with again one day. He will. Because once you get up there, you’ll always have crises.”
Derek Dooley told Vince that coaching the final game would be a distraction for the team. (Brant Sanderlin/AJC)
Tennessee allowed Derek Dooley three years of crises, then they fired him. It didn’t matter that the program was in a crises when the younger Dooley was hired. Lane Kiffin had bolted, and the school pointed to a burning building and told Dooley, “Fix it. Fast.” That was too great a feat for any coach to accomplish, let alone one making the leap from Louisiana Tech to the SEC, his genes notwithstanding.
But Vince Dooley understands the reality of coaching today: A man doesn’t go 4-19 in the SEC at programs like Tennessee and survive.
“I knew the situation,” he said. “They came very close in some big ballgames that unfortunately they didn’t win. I know [Tennessee athletic director] Dave Hart personally. He anguished over this. But in light of the situation I understand the decision. Frank Beamer at Virginia Tech in his first six seasons had 24 wins and 40 losses. In his sixth year he won two games. But until this season he was one of the winningest coaches in football. Coaches don’t get that
kind of time any more.”
Dooley said he had only one question for his son: Why was he not going to coach Tennessee’s final game at Kentucky?
“Derek said he requested that because he felt he would be distraction,” Dooley said. “He said all of the speculation about his job was a distraction before the Vanderbilt game and he felt that hurt the team (a 41-18 loss), so he didn’t want that to happen again. Once he said that, I admired his decision. I felt it was important to get that out because it’s not like they didn’t want him around.”
Barbara Dooley has taken firing the hardest, Vince said. (Hyosub Shin/AJC)
Anybody close to Georgia football knows how much Vince and Barbara wanted their son to succeed. Dad would catch Tennessee’s game on television in press boxes around the SEC while traveling with the Bulldogs. Mom attended games in Knoxville, dressed in orange. When the schools met, Barbara never was conflicted.
“That’s my baby, and I’m pulling for Tennessee. If the Georgia people don’t understand that, then I just don’t get it,” she once said.
Barbara politely declined to speak Tuesday.
“It’s been difficult, especially on my wife, who takes things harder than I do,” Vince said. “That’s her baby. I told her it will take a while for the pain to go away. She’s hurting more than [Derek]. He’s handling it better than she is.”
Three more victories would heal a lot of wounds. Georgia has three games left: It’s a local rival (Georgia Tech), the SEC championship (Alabama) and a bowl game (in the Utopian experience of two more wins, it’s the BCS Championship game in Miami).
Dooley has been down this road before. He knows Richt is concerned that players’ minds might be on matters not related to the Georgia Tech game. That’s a danger, regardless of what the fans, the alumni, the media and the oddsmakers say.
Dooley, who hired Richt, happy that the coach has "righted the ship" at Georgia. (Joey Ivansco/AJC)
“Back in 1980 when we were undefeated before the Georgia Tech game, I had a player from the 1927 team talk to the players how they were in the same situation and ended up losing to Georgia Tech in the final game,” Dooley said. “It can happen — it has happened. You have people see that Tech maybe doesn’t have the direction Georgia does and you find yourself looking beyond this week, and that rubs off on players. As a coach, that worries you.”
With Vince Dooley, you always get a story. If it’s not about the Georgia team that went 9-0 in 1927 before losing to Tech 12-0, it’s about Charley Trippi coming back from World War II in 1945. Trippi was invoked when Dooley was asked about the Dogs’ early-season struggles with injuries and suspensions, even after four players returned.
“When Charley Trippi came out of the military, all the players expected he was going to be some Superman, and when he came back the rest of the team just sort of watched him,” he said. “They played LSU, and they just annihilated Trippi. It took a while for that team to respond to crisis. But they eventually did, and so did this team. I know it was devastating playing South Carolina and laying an egg there, and then playing poorly at Kentucky, although I did that plenty of times. But going down and beating Florida was big, and now here they are. I’m really pleased for the whole program and particularly for Mark, since [hiring him] was one of my last decisions.”
He’ll try to focus on that and let time heal everything else.
By Jeff Schultz
Kick bit and pull up a blog . . .
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• Short takes: Ryan awful, defense great, win important
• Georgia’s new reality: From on the brink to BCS title possibility
• Upsets launch Georgia into BCS title picture (updated game column)
• Short takes: Murray wakes up the offense
• Weekend Predictions: Dogs, Jackets, Falcons and the lust triangles
• Falcons’ flaws aren’t worse than any other NFL team
• College hoop kings provide rare thrills for Atlanta
• Falcons’ startling admission: Ray Edwards was a blunder
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467 comments Add your comment
BILLY JACK
November 20th, 2012
5:50 pm
GT Bob-after saturday I hope yall have enough players to play FSU.I pray Mark Richt will really run up the score sat-it will put you techies back in your holes.He is too much of a christian to beat you like you need it.
Ed
November 20th, 2012
5:53 pm
It’s common to claim that coaches don’t get as much time these days as they used to, but I’m not sure 4-19 over your first 23 SEC games would have bought you any more time in Vince Dooley’s day. Johnny Griffith got shown the door at UGA after three seasons with a better conference record than Derek Dooley’s: 6-12-1. And that was back in 1963.
I wish things had turned out better for the younger Dooley, but if he was my kid and I knew he was financially set for life at age 44…you couldn’t wipe the smile off my face.
Tools Everywhere
November 20th, 2012
5:53 pm
I would bet not 3% of the people on these blogs are UGA alums….We have better things to do.
GTBob
November 20th, 2012
5:54 pm
No Bob..He will not be fired because because there is no money to pay him off.You’ve stated this yourself.
I have stated that as a contributing reason. Even if you personally wrote a 10 million dollar check to the GT athletic department today he wouldn’t be fired though. The guys isn’t doing as bad as UGA fans think he is doing. They are used to having teams overloaded with talent who are guaranteed to have 10-11 wins every year. It isn’t like that at GT. You have to have a little perspective.
dawgster
November 20th, 2012
5:56 pm
@GT Bob…I really don’t understand you man. I mean do you really have that much hate for UGA…I mean I don’t have any love for GT, but I don”t bash the program or their coaches everyday, every comment, and whatever blog you can get on…Really is that all your life amounts to?…I sure hope not..Its one thing to have civil discusstions and disagreements on who is better than who…but regardless of the year, the season, or who we played or didn’t play, you somehow find a way to hurl insults…yes some may be deserved…every fanbase has some that only throughout the negatives…but I just don’t understand individuals such as you that spend so much time on here being as negative as possible…and most of the time you really don’t have anything concrete to bring to the discussion….
Just puzzled by what makes someone like you appear to be tick!!!!…Maybe its just a little game you play to rile up anyone you can…but surely you must have more to you than what you display on the AJC blogs….Doesn’t if bother you that no one or very few give you any respect….It should, but maybe thats not how you are wired….Of course there are a few here, so you are not alone, but you would be in my top ten one of the best haters…..I really feel bad for you, even after I said all these things…I really hope you are better than what you make out to be on here…and yes I expect I’ll receive some type of insult back from you, so have at it….Notice I did’nt say one negative thing about Tech…I could, but what does that really say about me or others that do that….Just a thought…
Rick James
November 20th, 2012
5:56 pm
@GTBob
So because we play in the ACC there is nothing CPJ can do that would be considered an accomplishment? Is that what you are getting at?
——————————————————————————————————————-
Comparing his winning percentage to Bobby Dodd’s is nothing to brag about playing in the ACC.Do you think that would get him a job interview at a school in real major conference? This is Paul Johnson’s last coaching job on this level.He’s mid-major or FCS coaching material.
BILLY JACK
November 20th, 2012
5:56 pm
GT Bob- I hate to admit it but I enjoy your post most of the time-at least your not like the other nerds who say Tech is gonna beat Georgia-you are much more of a realist.
Patched Tire On I-95 in Jacksonville
November 20th, 2012
5:57 pm
Wow another comment talking about posters being alums
I think thats about 1 million of those now
Talk about original and a lack of use of a brain cell
GTBob
November 20th, 2012
5:57 pm
GT Bob-after saturday I hope yall have enough players to play FSU.I pray Mark Richt will really run up the score sat-it will put you techies back in your holes.He is too much of a christian to beat you like you need it.
If UGA is capable of it then I welcome it. Pound us into oblivion. I want to see broken bones on every play, hundreds of points, ambulances on the field every 5 minutes, etc. Don’t let up like a bunch of pansies. I want some serious punishment.
Tools Everywhere
November 20th, 2012
5:57 pm
@GT Bob,
Speaking of no life. You’ve been at it for 5+ hours on a UGA article……..
dawgster
November 20th, 2012
5:58 pm
sorry above should say “what makes someone like you tick”….
bulldogbull
November 20th, 2012
6:00 pm
LOL…Derek was a smart lawyer…signed a contract he shouldn’t have gotten and walks away with $5,000,000.00 for doing a lousy job. What’s there to feel sorry for? 99% of Americans would love such ‘heartache’…lol. I can think of at least a million things worth a moment of sorry more deserving than Derek’s situation. Let’s face it, he outfoxed whoever signed him to that deal and screwed TN in the process.
BILLY JACK
November 20th, 2012
6:00 pm
Hey Tools I am actually a UGA grad class of 85 I enjoy stopping by and duel with GT Bob from time to time-I understand his hatred for UGA and me and my friends hate them more-the world is as it should be.
Tools Everywhere
November 20th, 2012
6:02 pm
Hey Billy like I said, 3%……..
BILLY JACK
November 20th, 2012
6:04 pm
I like your passion Bob I remember in 2002 people around me were screaming for more points in Athens the score was 51-7 but we wanted more but Mark Richt wouldnt do it.Maybe saturday he will if enough Georgia people will e mail him-please Dawgnatio send the email somewhere in the 70s would be nice.
Rick James
November 20th, 2012
6:10 pm
@GTBob
have stated that as a contributing reason. Even if you personally wrote a 10 million dollar check to the GT athletic department today he wouldn’t be fired though. The guys isn’t doing as bad as UGA fans think he is doing. They are used to having teams overloaded with talent who are guaranteed to have 10-11 wins every year. It isn’t like that at GT. You have to have a little perspective.
—————————————————————————————————————————-
OK..Tech fans have lower expectaions than Georgia fans and are fine with Paul Johnson’s performance.That’s interesting considering how you slam Mark Right and Georgia for underachiving.
Rick James
November 20th, 2012
6:13 pm
Paul Johnson just did a radio intervew on 680 the fan.Now I understand more why he’s such a poor recruiter.He has the personality of a doorknob
GTBob
November 20th, 2012
6:17 pm
dawgster, I am not going to insult you, there was nothing derogatory in your post so I really have no reason to fire back. I used to be fairly normal on here and didn’t even post about UGA much. Then several dog fans wanted to continually trash the GT blogs, even right after losses which is about the most classless thing I can think of. I eventually had enough and I started firing back with a pretty extreme amount of hatred. It has gone on for a few years now and I doubt it will stop any time soon. Its partially fueled by hatred and partially fueled by entertainment. I do still have my own rules though. I don’t attack anyone here personally, I try to stay as civil as I can, and I don’t really pile on UGA fans after a loss. So there you go. There is a small insight into the brain of GTBob.
Cdpridg
November 20th, 2012
6:17 pm
Did Johnson tell any tech fans to punch UGA fans in the face? Not only does he not have a personality…he has no cooth. He should be heading up Fort Valley St.
Hillbilly D
November 20th, 2012
6:17 pm
Big time coaches are hired to be fired. They’re well compensated for their trouble.
GTBob
November 20th, 2012
6:19 pm
That’s interesting considering how you slam Mark Right and Georgia for underachiving.
Its different expectations. GT has a much lower ceiling on the talent that they can get and the kind of team they can actually field. UGA and GT are not on equal grounds at all. Even as much as you want them to be.
LakeDawg
November 20th, 2012
6:30 pm
Vince is a class act. Always has been. Adams is an a$$.
Nole Girl
November 20th, 2012
6:33 pm
Gotta support my fellow ACC– Rick James GT Co National Champs 1990. And when was the last time UGA won a national championship… yep that’s right one in 1980~~
North ave. faithful
November 20th, 2012
6:33 pm
As aggravating as GTBob can be at times i have to say that in the game of verbal debate, he has a high winning percentage.
jerry
November 20th, 2012
6:34 pm
Derek took his influence and his 17-20 La. Tech record and parlayed it into several million dollars at the expense of the Tennessee fans who were sold out by the athletic department. Vince, if you’re going to feel sorry for anyone, feel for the Tennessee fans that suffered through three years of DD’s unqualified self. You did say you knew the Tennessee AD personally, didn’t you? hmmm.
jc_dawgs
November 20th, 2012
6:38 pm
Make no mistake about it….Georgia Tech is not our friend. If the Dawgs dont focus on this game this Saturday…then Tech will ruin this party. There is nothing that they want more right now than to ruin this dream that’s growing within all of us. Go get’m Dawgs…play the game this Saturday and play it well!
RJ
November 20th, 2012
6:40 pm
Dawgster you are talking to someone who has bluntly stated if he could he wouldn’t hesitate to push a button that would eliminate UGA and Athens. With every win UGA has over Tech his hate deepens. Like you I pull for Georgia but I do not hate Tech. I know it to be a fine University that shouldn’t be compared to UGA based solely on Football. I get this and so does most of the civilized world. I admit if the shoe was on the other foot I may feel differently about Tech but we have too much to be thankful for than to allow a football game have that kind of impact on our lives.
Rick James
November 20th, 2012
6:40 pm
@GTBob
Its different expectations. GT has a much lower ceiling on the talent that they can get and the kind of team they can actually field. UGA and GT are not on equal grounds at all. Even as much as you want them to be.
—————————————————————————————————————————-
Translation— You make excuses for the team you support and slam the teams you dont like.
Cdpridg
November 20th, 2012
6:44 pm
Actually, North Ave in order to win a verbal debate you have to present facts. Bob fails to do so. Honestly is incapable for the simple fact of the GT in front of his name. He has lost before he even signs on. At this point as far as I am concerned I enjoy toying with him…like I would a 5th grader.
Put in Timeout by Ken Suguira,Filtered by Mark Bradley, Banned by Bill King, Chip Towers & only slightly loved by Jeff Schultz.
November 20th, 2012
7:00 pm
JEFF can we tell JOKES YET?
Do you know why they call UGa female coeds Bowling Balls?
Cause it takes at least 3 fingers to fill them and they will always end up thrown in the gutter by some drunk before the night is over. LOL
Rick James
November 20th, 2012
7:04 pm
@Nole Girl
Gotta support my fellow ACC– Rick James GT Co National Champs 1990. And when was the last time UGA won a national championship… yep that’s right one in 1980~~
—————————————————————————————————————————
Co National Champions?? Sharing a championship is like than sharing a woman.Its a thrill but nothing to brag about..The UGA title was unanimous..If you want to talk recent tell what your champion did in the Orange Bowl last year..
North ave. faithful
November 20th, 2012
7:06 pm
Clean it up 5150, yea i recognize you.
AsianDawg
November 20th, 2012
7:08 pm
I tink i go to wong schoo.
Dawg89
November 20th, 2012
7:09 pm
GTBob is Jeff Schultz. Who else has that much time to spend on an AJC article.
Macon Dawg
November 20th, 2012
7:12 pm
I haven’t read all the post but it just befuddles me how people love to point out UGA’s weak schedule. UGA did NOT make the conference schedule, the SEC did. It is true that UGA has not had to play some of the toughest teams in the conference but you don’t see anyone mention that BAMA did not have to play the 3 best teams in the East, either. BAMA could have and probably should have lost both of the toughest games they played. LSU gave the game away and TAM beat BAMA in Tuscaloosa. I am not slamming BAMA’s schedule because UGA gets their chance to hash it out in the Dome. Sure UGA laid an egg in Columbia. The Gamecocks have a very good team and they were more prepared that night. I give them that. But as in golf…….it is not how you drive, it is how you arive that matters. I guess you all would like to take the Green Jacket away from Bubba because he shanked his drive in the woods on the final hole. He laid an egg on that one so I guess he is a loser becuase of that one shot, right? Time will tell concerning the Dawgs. They may get upset by Tech. They may get blown out by BAMA. Should UGA prevail in both of those games and move on to Miami it won’t be because Dawg fans got them there it will be because the POLLS put them there. Like it or not that is how it is. And SHOULD that happen, it will be funny to read how (all of a sudden) BAMA really wasn’t that good after all. All season long (until the loss to TAM) they were the cream of the crop all across the country, not just in Tuscaloosa. BAMA has a darn good team and should UGA upset them it will be because UGA earned it in spite of one very poor night in Columbia. Good luck UGA. Good luck BAMA and may the team that wins go on to win the N.C.
Deion Sanders
November 20th, 2012
7:12 pm
Hey Nole Girl, do U have any Free Shoes? Can you take my final exam? Better yet, can you help me study?
Put in Timeout by Ken Suguira,Filtered by Mark Bradley, Banned by Bill King, Chip Towers & only slightly loved by Jeff Schultz.
November 20th, 2012
7:13 pm
North ave. faithful……………I asked and if he takes it down OK…….But we all have an million of the GT vs UGa jokes.
ARdawg
November 20th, 2012
7:50 pm
I will be the first to admit, GTBob used to be a great Techie to discuss the finer points of football and was for a number of years. Somewhere however, his breaker flipped and actual football discussion was no more. Since then it is all vitriol for the University of Georgia and all things SEC. He needs psychological help. He’s damaged. Bobby, I state this as a friend
Dacusville Bill
November 20th, 2012
7:58 pm
Fire Pitiful Paul, Hire Mr Dooley from Tenn. Tom?
Bitter dawgs fan
November 20th, 2012
8:12 pm
Dooly never had a chance dealing with the –BLUE TICK NATION
—-LOOSERS—CHEW SOME MORE—backie—-sleep with a realitive
and get used too years—yes years of getting beat by —-VANDY
—Blahahahahahahahahah
Techster
November 20th, 2012
8:12 pm
What? We have gone a whole day without a dog being arrested?
Bitter dawgs fan
November 20th, 2012
8:22 pm
Vince Dooly is ten fold a better Dawg than DR Pepper Adams
———-1980 will never be forgotten———-
———Coach Dooly a LEGEND
Bitter dawgs fan
November 20th, 2012
8:25 pm
tOO ALL 14TH STREET FLUNKIES AND BAMMA TRAILER TRAMPS
——1980———12-0—— UNDEFEATED NATIONAL CHAMPS
Beast from the East
November 20th, 2012
8:33 pm
Dooley was a bad hire to begin with. How could any sane person think that hiring a coach from a second tier program with a losing record was going to compete in the SEC? Vandy has won more conference games THIS YEAR THAN DOOLEY WON IN HIS ENTIRE 3 YEAR STINT! The guy is walking away with $5,000,000…not counting what he’s already made. Feel sorry for him? Heck no! He just won the dang lottery!
Put in Timeout by Ken Suguira,Filtered by Mark Bradley, Banned by Bill King, Chip Towers & only slightly loved by Jeff Schultz.
November 20th, 2012
8:33 pm
Apparently the White House referred to Christmas Trees as “Holiday Trees” for the first time this year which prompted CBS presenter, Ben Stein, to present this piece which I would like to share with you. I think it applies just as much to many countries as it does to America . . .
The following was written by Ben Stein and recited by him on CBS Sunday Morning Commentary.
My confession:
I am a Jew, and every single one of my ancestors was Jewish. And it does not bother me even a little bit when people call those beautiful lit up, bejewelled trees, Christmas trees. I don’t feel threatened. I don’t feel discriminated against. That’s what they are, Christmas trees.
It doesn’t bother me a bit when people say, “Merry Christmas” to me. I don’t think they are slighting me or getting ready to put me in a ghetto. In fact, I kind of like it. It shows that we are all brothers and sisters celebrating this happy time of year. It doesn’t bother me at all that there is a manger scene on display at a key intersection near my beach house in Malibu. If people want a crib, it’s just as fine with me as is the Menorah a few hundred yards away.
I don’t like getting pushed around for being a Jew, and I don’t think Christians like getting pushed around for being Christians. I think people who believe in God are sick and tired of getting pushed around, period. I have no idea where the concept came from, that America is an explicitly atheist country. I can’t find it in the Constitution and I don’t like it being shoved down my throat.
Or maybe I can put it another way: where did the idea come from that we should worship celebrities and we aren’t allowed to worship God? I guess that’s a sign that I’m getting old, too. But there are a lot of us who are wondering where these celebrities came from and where the America we knew went to.
In light of the many jokes we send to one another for a laugh, this is a little different: This is not intended to be a joke; it’s not funny, it’s intended to get you thinking.
Billy Graham’s daughter was interviewed on the Early Show and Jane Clayson asked her: “How could God let something like this happen?” (regarding Hurricane Katrina). Anne Graham gave an extremely profound and insightful response. She said: “I believe God is deeply saddened by this, just as we are, but for years we’ve been telling God to get out of our schools, to get out of our government and to get out of our lives. And being the gentleman He is, I believe He has calmly backed out. How can we expect God to give us His blessing and His protection if we demand He leave us alone?”
In light of recent events… terrorists attack, school shootings, etc. I think it started when Madeleine Murray O’Hare (she was murdered, her body found a few years ago) complained she didn’t want prayer in our schools, and we said OK. Then someone said you better not read the Bible in school. The Bible says thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, and love your neighbour as yourself. And we said OK.
Then Dr. Benjamin Spock said we shouldn’t spank our children when they misbehave, because their little personalities would be warped and we might damage their self-esteem (Dr. Spock’s son committed suicide). We said an expert should know what he’s talking about. And we said okay.
Now we’re asking ourselves why our children have no conscience, why they don’t know right from wrong, and why it doesn’t bother them to kill strangers, their classmates, and themselves.
Probably, if we think about it long and hard enough, we can figure it out. I think it has a great deal to do with ‘WE REAP WHAT WE SOW.’
Funny how simple it is for people to trash God and then wonder why the world’s going to hell. Funny how we believe what the newspapers say, but question what the Bible says. Funny how you can send ‘jokes’ through e-mail and they spread like wildfire, but when you start sending messages regarding the Lord, people think twice about sharing. Funny how lewd, crude, vulgar and obscene articles pass freely through cyberspace, but public discussion of God is suppressed in the school and workplace.
Are you laughing yet?
Funny how when you forward this message, you will not send it to many on your address list because you’re not sure what they believe, or what they will think of you for sending it.
Funny how we can be more worried about what other people think of us than what God thinks of us.
Pass it on if you think it has merit.
If not, then just discard it…. no one will know you did. But if you discard this thought process, don’t sit back and complain about what bad shape the world is in.
My Best Regards, Honestly and respectfully,
Ben Stein
AMERICA BLESS GOD………Please.
you can't fix stupid or Democrats or bulldogs
November 20th, 2012
8:34 pm
Derek will not be out of coaching long.
Jeff McDowell
November 20th, 2012
8:36 pm
Derek Dooley is a good man and did the best he could with the talent he had..He will be a head coach again and be a winner..
Put in Timeout by Ken Suguira,Filtered by Mark Bradley, Banned by Bill King, Chip Towers & only slightly loved by Jeff Schultz.
November 20th, 2012
8:42 pm
———-1980 will never be forgotten———-
=================================
How could it be forgotten?
They make a new VCR tape or CD or DVD every 3 years to relive it.
Groundhogday
November 20th, 2012
8:43 pm
I’ve actually been wondering what kind of AD Derek Dooley would make….
Patched Tire On I-95 in Jacksonville
November 20th, 2012
9:00 pm
Put in Timeout
Nice post at 8:33 pm
I totally agree