Braves, Wren whiff on Greinke — and this is getting old
Zack Greinke: On his way to Angels. (AP)
Frank Wren: Looking for help. (Curtis Compton)
(UPDATED: 9:10 p.m.)
The first pitcher they went after (Ryan Dempster) said no. He prefers Los Angeles.
The second pitcher they went after (Zack Greinke) was traded to Los Angeles (no, not that L.A. team, the other L.A. team).
The Braves are trying to get better before Tuesday’s trade deadline. We think. But this journey is turning into some weird nightmare, or at least a Randy Newman retrospective. (“I Love L.A.!”)
Remember when the Braves used to get what they want? Remember when 90-plus-win seasons and playoff games seemed as plentiful as potato chips?
General manager Frank Wren said Friday night that he didn’t believe the Braves were close to a trade for a starting pitcher of significance. No kidding. I’m not sure how many are left.
When Wren was asked if he was balking at parting with a coveted prospect like Julio Teheran for a rental player like Greinke, he responded: “I really don’t want to go there. We’ve had a sense for what [teams] are looking for with all these big guys. Some may be a little cost prohibitive.”
And there it is.
At some point, maybe it will be about this season, not next year or the one after that. But right now it’s not looking that way.
The Braves still have a few days until Tuesday’s 4 p.m. deadline to fix their starting rotation, which has been dropping engine parts for the past several miles. But if they don’t succeed, it will be because Frank “You’ll Get My Prospects When You Pry Them From My Cold Dead Hands” Wren is focused on tomorrow, not today. Again.
Try to explain that to the players in the clubhouse. They believe the team needs a boost to catch Washington in the East (or survive a six-team wild-card cage match with all limbs intact.)
Even Tim Hudson, the current No. 1 starter, said of the team’s attempts to get a starting pitcher: “Everybody’s encouraged by it. It’s an area that’s been inconsistent for us all year. We’re here to win. There’s no reason to take it personally – unless I’m being bumped out of a job.”
It’s obvious where Chipper Jones stands. This is his last season. He wants another shot at the World Series.
When word circulated the other day that Florida had exploded another dumb-bomb and traded Hanley Ramirez to the Dodgers, signaling a housecleaning, Jones was sitting on the Braves’ team bus in Miami. On walked Wren. Jones began his mock throat-clearing and in a humorous hoarse tone said, “Josh Johnson!”
Wren smiled. But he didn’t make a move.
Wren satisfied the Cubs in a potential trade for Dempster, so we can’t put that one on him. (Dempster still hasn’t been traded to the Dodgers, so there’s at least some possibility he could change his stance.) But Wren generally has been resistant to parting with top young pitchers Teheran and Randall Delgado for a potential rental player.
The Brewers traded Greinke to the Angels (for shortstop Jean Segura and two prospects) because Wren wouldn’t give up enough for a pitcher who potentially could lead them to a World Series. The Marlins are asking for the moon and the sun for Johnson, as they should. He’s not only good, he’s signed through next season. He might be worth more than even Greinke. Great players don’t come for cheap.
Sports Illustrated’s Tom Verducci reaffirmed the upside for teams that acquire starting pitchers at the deadline. He noted that over the past five years, contenders have traded for 19 starting pitchers in July. Those pitchers accumulated a record of 94-45. Nine pitched in the postseason. That includes Edwin Jackson, who went 6-3 (including playoffs) with St. Louis last year following a trade and helped the Cardinals to the World Series. Verducci referenced other recent “sudden-impact” pitchers at the deadline: Cliff Lee (Texas, Philadelphia), Roy Oswalt (Philadelphia), Ted Lilly (L.A. Dodgers), C.C. Sabathia (Milwaukee) and Joe Blanton (Philadelphia).
Friday did not pass without the Braves making a move. They signed 41-year-old Miguel Batista, who was just released by the New York Mets, to a minor-league contract.
Wren doesn’t necessarily see Batista being called up and becoming a factor for the Braves down the stretch. But you never know. It was worth a shot. Batista comes cheap. And isn’t that what’s most important of all?
By Jeff Schultz
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445 comments Add your comment
chris
July 28th, 2012
2:26 pm
did you write this article before the texeira trade also?
coo coo bird fan
July 28th, 2012
2:31 pm
To the idiot who says the Braves have NO superstars…. Its clear u are an idiot so I’ll make this easy for you….. Brian McCann, Freddie Freeman, Dan Uggla, Jason Heyward, Michael Bourn, Craig Kimbrell, Tim Hudson, and of late Ben Sheets. Find another blog to regurgitate your nonsense and I’m outta here like McCann against the Phills.
Klaus
July 28th, 2012
2:35 pm
He has been GM for five years and he is no closer to a legitimate post season run now then when he took over. He has a built in excuse called Liberty (which is partly to blame) but his eye for talent is hit or miss.
Sheets was a coin flip and a cheap one. His starts look great but not the done by the 6th inning bit. Sooner or later the pen will not be able to hold the line esp since the rest of the starters (apart from every third Hudson start) are in the same boat.
Bottom line Wren has air cover in Liberty and it allows him to vacillate between being short sighted & cheap to over paying and or jumping the gun. He dodged 100mm mistakes bc he cannot afford to offer that kind of money. If he could be would have at least one 100mm mess.
How long can he be GM on a team that watches games on TV in Oct?
bvilebaron
July 28th, 2012
3:00 pm
J-MAN:
Thanks for confirming the contents of my earlier post. As the old saying goes, if the shoe fits, wear it. Of course, you can look at those contracts now and criticize them, but where were you when they were made. I bet you were one of those guys who wanted to keep Vazquez and not re-up Hudson at the time. C’mon ‘fess up!
A couple of other thoughts for you. Jurrjens had little or no value this past offseason coming off an injury and a miserable second half last year. The Lowe, Chipper and probably Jurrjens and Diaz money will come off the books this winter.
yaktheripper
July 28th, 2012
3:11 pm
I haven’t read all your comments but the majority of them sound like spoiled crybabies. “Wren sucks….waaaaaa” just like the tool that wrote this article. Okay so we didn’t get Dempster, not for lack of trying. We didn’t get Grienke, not for lack of trying. Who do we get now? What would you do? Oh yeah, “trade Uggla”…who wants Uggla folks? Do you? Thought not. Who do you replace Uggla with? Prado? Nice…who replaces Prado. Oh, no answer. THIS is a playoff team but NOT a World Series team, and besides a stunning Felix Hernandez type impact player at this point, there’s no one available to make this a World Series team. So why trade YOUNG, CONTROLLABLE, talent for an arm that might or might not get as another 5 W’s along the way? I was suspect of Wren initally too folks..that was his FIRST year, the man is doing a pretty decent job and hasn’t strip mined our farm out of panic. You’d think Schultz..a “sportswriter” would balance these options and weigh logic, but no…he’s moans, groans, and cries like the rest of you big baby Braves fans. Get a grip people. We’re doing good not great and it’s probably not our year no matter how epic it would be for Chipper to go out on.
pepper
July 28th, 2012
3:14 pm
I am completely comfortable with Braves not making another “mark teixeira” type deal where we give up multiple prospects for a rental. If we still had harrison, andrus and feliz, then we would not be in a pickle in 2012. At some point, sanity has to set in. Delgado for Dempster, for example, would be a disaster. For the Braves, it is mandatory that we have some inexpensive, homegrown talent to make up much of the roster, with a few judicious free agents to fill in. Dempster would leave and then we’d be back in same situation we are in now, minus Delgado. I just do not understand this “let the future go hang” attitude.
jeff
July 28th, 2012
3:22 pm
Wow. a lot of haters. anyone around for tex deal few years back? Why waste talent on a rental. sheets has been spectacular. we can fight for greinke in off-season with Larry Wayne and Lowe off books. who do we get over uggla? scutaro just traded for recent first rounder. Starters have underperformed but no one to blame but them. thank you Frank wren for not depleting our system. grow up braves fans
MitchC
July 28th, 2012
3:27 pm
Jeff, thank you for this. This team is pathetic, especially after The Collapse last season.
The Collapse and the fact that it’s Chipper’;s last season, should signify that it’s time for Wren to show some.. guts, and do something big. I think the situation of how much we traded away to get Mark Texira, for essentially a rental, still haunts this team, and scares them into not making moves.
If the Braves miss the playoffs this season, both Wren and Fredi G should be shown the door. With Chipper gone, and other contracts up, its time for a housecleaning unlike one we’ve ever done here before, even worse than 2002 and 2003 when we lost Glavine, Maddux, and Millwood in two straight offseasons.
J-MAN
July 28th, 2012
3:32 pm
I actually did want to keep Vazquez and I admitted that we were better off trading him to the Yankees getting Vizcaino and everything. But Jurrjens had trade value and was mentioned in Colorado, Baltimore and Boston as potential destinations. But the point is we can look at those contracts now and criticize them, because at the end of the day you have to be held accountable either way. Either you become a genius or your a fool. Its the world of Sports all deals are subject to scrutiny. And the fact is that Wren has made questionable moves.
the truth...
July 28th, 2012
3:42 pm
J-MAN….
do who’s the genius and who’s the fool?
Don’t think for a minute Big Frank wouldn’t have traded JJ this past winter if he could have…… fact is he is damaged goods and no one will pick up his contract much less trade you anything for him.
Yep Wren is not batting 1000 for his moves………..but if he trades our young arms for a 60 day rental he will be batting zero on that one………..
The Sheets deal is an A+ for sure….and getting Janish to replace Simmons wasn’t bad either…
Yep the Lowe deal sucked big time, and personally I think the Uggla trade and signing was a huge mistake….all that said we won’t gain anything by going the Rental Route….
And lest anyone forget…..we will not get rid of JJ’s or Uggla’s contract by DFA-ing them…we are stuck with the contracts like it or not……..
If Big Frank could trade Uggla i’d be all in on that one…..he is just too inconsistent….
NO RENTALS BIG FRANK
Stinger2
July 28th, 2012
3:43 pm
Jeff: After all the comments on this blog, do you see the same drift as I do?
That being FW is doing the right thing in regards to not making deals that will hurt in team in the future. Also, he still has time to make a trade or take some other action to get a starter.
Stinger2
July 28th, 2012
3:43 pm
Jeff: After all the comments on this blog, do you see the same drift as I do?
That being FW is doing the right thing in regards to not making deals that will hurt in team in the future. Also, he still has time to make a trade or take some other action to get a starter.
J-MAN
July 28th, 2012
3:46 pm
Well all Im saying is that Frank Wren has had some questionable moves, we can agree on that and I feel that he still needs to make a trade. I think Edinson Volezquez would be the best deal possible. And truth he wouldnt be a rental. But Wren had several offers for Jurrjens this past offseason, he just didnt like the offers and he over valued Jurrjens.
longtimefan
July 28th, 2012
3:47 pm
Actually the majority of Wrens moves have been pretty good. The only one I would call a bust was Kawakami. Please show me ONE GM in sports who has been playing the game for any length of time and is batting 1.000. Look at all the high priced players who are underperforming or are outright busts-some GM not named Frank Wren signed them. It’s not as easy as some think.
Stumpknocker
July 28th, 2012
3:51 pm
……Remember when Ted Turner owned this team and money was no object………..Now they’re just a tax rite-off for Liberty Media…….nuff said.
longtimefan
July 28th, 2012
3:53 pm
Truth is, I like our starting rotation fine with Hudson, Hanson, Sheets, Minor and maybe Medlen. Our offense is near the top of the NL and bullpen is solid with best closer in baseball. If starts hitting like he has shown he can we may win the division outright rather than the WC. I believe that is a realistic appraisal.
the truth...
July 28th, 2012
3:54 pm
NO RENTALS
BIG FRANK
NO RENTALS
Belcher
July 28th, 2012
4:08 pm
Did Wren grt rid of Adam Wainwright? If so. Wren should be long gone!!!!!!!!!
LakeDawg
July 28th, 2012
4:10 pm
Not convinced that Dempster is anything more than a mediocre player having a good year. It’s conveniently overlooked that We picked up Sheetz, who’s now 3-0. As for Greinke and Johnson, I wouldn’t mortgage the future for them.
J-MAN
July 28th, 2012
4:11 pm
Well Im not saying Wren is a BAD GM but he isnt a good 1 either. Derek Lowe was a bust along with KK, not trading Jurrjens when he had value was a bad decision, And giving Uggla a big contract has turned out to be a bad decision.
J-MAN
July 28th, 2012
4:14 pm
@ Belcher nope that was Schulholtz. In fact Schulholtz had a terrible time with trades in his last 7 years as GM. The Tex deal, the JD Drew deal, Trading Milwood for Johnny Estrada wasnt a popular 1.
the truth...
July 28th, 2012
4:18 pm
Adam Wainwright was a Big John Schuerholz deal and along with Jason Marquis they were traded for J.D. Drew and Eli Marrero….
yep Big John knew how to give the farm away I’d say….that was only a couple of years before the Texeira blunder………..
the truth...
July 28th, 2012
4:20 pm
Looks like some sanity is returning to the Braves Management….Fredi just announced that Medlen will start Tuesday barring some trade in the interim…..
The insanity continues though as JJ is being moved to the pen……..can you imagine? I think JJ needs to spend the month of August at Gwinnett pitching every other day in the pen there….
kerryb
July 28th, 2012
4:25 pm
I’ll say it again for Jeff Schultz and all of these arm chair GM’s. I would not trade my top one or two pitching prospects for a 2 month rental of Zack Greinke. Anyone that thinks we should have needs to come to their senses.
J-MAN
July 28th, 2012
4:25 pm
Moving Medlen back to the rotation is a good move but the Braves still need another starter. Hanson and Minor are very inconsistant. We also need another bull-pen arm and another right handed bat to come off the bench
J-MAN
July 28th, 2012
4:26 pm
Kerry B you gotta be lobosolo because he is the only 1 that refers to people here as “Arm Chairs”
kerryb
July 28th, 2012
4:27 pm
Learn from the past. It would be nice to have Matt Harrison who was an All Star this year in our rotation. Guess why that won’t happen? It was because John Scherholtz got trade happy with our top prospects.
The Braves Blog » Blog Archive » Braves, Wren whiff on Greinke — and this is getting old | Jeff Schultz
July 28th, 2012
4:40 pm
[...] the rest: http://blogs.ajc.com/jeff-schultz-blog/2012/07/27/live-braves-finally-make-a-move-wait-miguel-batist…. [Comments [...]
Hillbilly D
July 28th, 2012
5:09 pm
If Ben Sheets puts up 2-3 more wins in a row, we’ll be seeing columns about how smart Wren is.
MLS
July 28th, 2012
5:27 pm
Until Atlanta has a owner other than a corporation/Company they will never be competetive again. These corporations care only about one thing and one thing only “THE BOTTOM LINE P&L’s”. That sucks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The replace Vick project has worked out just fine
July 28th, 2012
5:59 pm
Enter your comments here
Jeff Schultz is a Professional
July 28th, 2012
6:02 pm
Jeff,
Did you hear about the Saints building a statue insulting the Falcons?
Please address this issue.
Falcons 62 - Saints 7
July 28th, 2012
6:04 pm
September 16, 1973
Alex
July 28th, 2012
6:14 pm
Come on Jeff, this is all rhetoric without any facts. Check out Greinke’s stats in September/ postseason, and his home road splits. This guy wasnt worth our future. I truly believe next year we will make a big move if necessary, as we will have a lot better read on how these young pitchers are cashing in on their potential. Ask the nationals if they are upset that their GM did the right thing by waiting and assembling the crew of players they have now…
Alex
July 28th, 2012
6:14 pm
Come on Jeff, this is all rhetoric without any facts. Check out Greinke’s stats in September/ postseason, and his home road splits. This guy wasnt worth our future. I truly believe next year we will make a big move if necessary, as we will have a lot better read on how these young pitchers are cashing in on their potential. Ask the nationals if they are upset that their GM did the right thing by waiting and assembling the crew of players they have now…
Jack in Macon
July 28th, 2012
6:18 pm
Jeff, you are wrong! I want a Braves team that can complete year-in and year-out with Washington who probably will be the elite team in the Division for awhile. With the Braves payroll, we have to develop our own talent. One pitcher will not make enough of a difference to win the World Series.
Why don’t you spend you energy and talent taking on Liberty Media and convincing them to sell the Braves to a group from Atlanta that wants to invest in the team and up the payroll about 50%. If that happens then you have something to hold over Wren.
splendid splinter
July 28th, 2012
6:19 pm
@longtimefan – you got it right pal. Most of the guys who blog on this page are crack pots who want to trade the entire team after every hiccup. And while Delgado has a lot of potential and worth keeping, has anyone looked at his record? I don’t think 4-9 is going to get anyone to the HOF. Maybe he’ll be great next year but maybe he will stink it up next year. Then everyone will be yelling that we should have traded him when we had the chance. And what team is it exactly that wants a .213 hitting 2nd baseman in a trade? Hey – hindsight is 20-20.
danny
July 28th, 2012
6:47 pm
I would have no problem with them giving the marlins Delgado, Tehran and another top prospect or two for Josh Johnson. No problem at all
the truth...
July 28th, 2012
6:54 pm
@splendid splinter
You really should not use that username………..there was only one “Splendid Splinter” and he, Ted Williams was one of a kind….
That out of the way, check Glavine, Smoltz and Maddox and their first few years….then tell me how bad Delgado and Minor look to you………….I think these numbers should make us all think again when we think we’re so wise….
Glavine
1987 2 W 4 L 5.54 era
1988 7 W 17 L 4.56 era
Smoltz
1987 2 W 7 L 5.58 era
Maddox
1986 2 W 4 L 5.52 era
1987 6 w 14 L 5.61
the truth...
July 28th, 2012
6:56 pm
Danny…you are delusional……….Johnson has been injured more than healthy and you want to give away the farm for him……..
take a deep breath and read the stats above on the Big 3 and their early years…..
Tom(Independent Viet Vet USAF)
July 28th, 2012
6:57 pm
IF Chipper or Mac wants it, the DH is waiting in the American League. Red Sox and Yankees would pay big money for either of those two? What do you guys think?
danny
July 28th, 2012
6:59 pm
Mac should definitely be traded. Sorry Guys. He plays catcher and is already wearing down. Can’t see. Knees hurt. Trade him to an AL team in off-season and bring up Bethancourt.
PHIL
July 29th, 2012
5:48 am
DO PEOPLE NOT UNDERSTAND THAT A TOP YOUNG PITCHER FOR A RENTAL PITCHER, NO MATTER WHO IT IS, IS A DUMB DEAL . COX MADE HIS LONG CONSECUTIVE DIVISION TITLES ON THE BACKS OF PITCHERS. LIVE TO WIN THE LONG WAR NOT A SHORT TERM GOOD FEELING VICTORY. WE ARE IN THE HINT WITH WHAT WE HAVE AND CAN WIN BUT TRADING YOUR FUTURE FOR A POSSIBLE TITLE IS NOT SMART AND WOULD IN NO WAY GUARENTEE A TITLE.
LawDawg
July 30th, 2012
10:17 am
I’d gladly part with some players for Johnson, since he is signed for an extra year and may be convinced to sign with the Braves long-term. It would be interesting to know what the Marlins want.
BradB
July 31st, 2012
5:51 pm
Chipper shouldn’t have joked around with Wren, he should have put a ball on a tee in the clubhouse with Josh Johnson written in permanent marker on it, and knocked the life out of it into Frank Wren’s forehead so he would know what was needed for this team of ours to make a legitimate push to win a championship and couldnt look at a mirror without seeing it. Go Braves, notice there is no Win in Wren.