Braves, Wren whiff on Greinke — and this is getting old
Zack Greinke: On his way to Angels. (AP)
Frank Wren: Looking for help. (Curtis Compton)
(UPDATED: 9:10 p.m.)
The first pitcher they went after (Ryan Dempster) said no. He prefers Los Angeles.
The second pitcher they went after (Zack Greinke) was traded to Los Angeles (no, not that L.A. team, the other L.A. team).
The Braves are trying to get better before Tuesday’s trade deadline. We think. But this journey is turning into some weird nightmare, or at least a Randy Newman retrospective. (“I Love L.A.!”)
Remember when the Braves used to get what they want? Remember when 90-plus-win seasons and playoff games seemed as plentiful as potato chips?
General manager Frank Wren said Friday night that he didn’t believe the Braves were close to a trade for a starting pitcher of significance. No kidding. I’m not sure how many are left.
When Wren was asked if he was balking at parting with a coveted prospect like Julio Teheran for a rental player like Greinke, he responded: “I really don’t want to go there. We’ve had a sense for what [teams] are looking for with all these big guys. Some may be a little cost prohibitive.”
And there it is.
At some point, maybe it will be about this season, not next year or the one after that. But right now it’s not looking that way.
The Braves still have a few days until Tuesday’s 4 p.m. deadline to fix their starting rotation, which has been dropping engine parts for the past several miles. But if they don’t succeed, it will be because Frank “You’ll Get My Prospects When You Pry Them From My Cold Dead Hands” Wren is focused on tomorrow, not today. Again.
Try to explain that to the players in the clubhouse. They believe the team needs a boost to catch Washington in the East (or survive a six-team wild-card cage match with all limbs intact.)
Even Tim Hudson, the current No. 1 starter, said of the team’s attempts to get a starting pitcher: “Everybody’s encouraged by it. It’s an area that’s been inconsistent for us all year. We’re here to win. There’s no reason to take it personally – unless I’m being bumped out of a job.”
It’s obvious where Chipper Jones stands. This is his last season. He wants another shot at the World Series.
When word circulated the other day that Florida had exploded another dumb-bomb and traded Hanley Ramirez to the Dodgers, signaling a housecleaning, Jones was sitting on the Braves’ team bus in Miami. On walked Wren. Jones began his mock throat-clearing and in a humorous hoarse tone said, “Josh Johnson!”
Wren smiled. But he didn’t make a move.
Wren satisfied the Cubs in a potential trade for Dempster, so we can’t put that one on him. (Dempster still hasn’t been traded to the Dodgers, so there’s at least some possibility he could change his stance.) But Wren generally has been resistant to parting with top young pitchers Teheran and Randall Delgado for a potential rental player.
The Brewers traded Greinke to the Angels (for shortstop Jean Segura and two prospects) because Wren wouldn’t give up enough for a pitcher who potentially could lead them to a World Series. The Marlins are asking for the moon and the sun for Johnson, as they should. He’s not only good, he’s signed through next season. He might be worth more than even Greinke. Great players don’t come for cheap.
Sports Illustrated’s Tom Verducci reaffirmed the upside for teams that acquire starting pitchers at the deadline. He noted that over the past five years, contenders have traded for 19 starting pitchers in July. Those pitchers accumulated a record of 94-45. Nine pitched in the postseason. That includes Edwin Jackson, who went 6-3 (including playoffs) with St. Louis last year following a trade and helped the Cardinals to the World Series. Verducci referenced other recent “sudden-impact” pitchers at the deadline: Cliff Lee (Texas, Philadelphia), Roy Oswalt (Philadelphia), Ted Lilly (L.A. Dodgers), C.C. Sabathia (Milwaukee) and Joe Blanton (Philadelphia).
Friday did not pass without the Braves making a move. They signed 41-year-old Miguel Batista, who was just released by the New York Mets, to a minor-league contract.
Wren doesn’t necessarily see Batista being called up and becoming a factor for the Braves down the stretch. But you never know. It was worth a shot. Batista comes cheap. And isn’t that what’s most important of all?
By Jeff Schultz
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445 comments Add your comment
Bob Showfety
July 28th, 2012
11:40 am
Could it be that the Braves just don’t have any real prospects to offer for a front-line pitcher?
B MONEY
July 28th, 2012
11:41 am
FOR ALL YOU WREN HATERS, GET OVER IT THE MAN IS DOING A GOOD JOB IF YOU NEW BASEBALL
74bravesjersey
July 28th, 2012
11:42 am
Just like angels Trumbo & Trout, arizona’s Goldscmidt, etc… we have another young Thumper or 2 that are hungry to get the call, to perform, just like simmons, give them a shot(Mejia, Durango,Gattis if he’s well) you never know. Simmons has gone beyond defensive wiz & has blown everybodies socks off. Some of the dead weight has gotten pretty lame. O’l Francisco sure looked alot better down in Miami, mabey turnin’ the corner w/ some plate Discipline. Uggla, you gotta get you’re zone back w/ better plate discipline, quit bein’ a easy out for those pitchers. Look for you’re pitch, not there’s. That’s where it lies fellas, mental toughness & a approach not to give in to their sucker pitch. Ugg’s, quit being suckered, kow you’re zone, when you we’re w/ florida, you raked against us pretty handidly. Clear you’re mind, look for you’re pitch.
Don
July 28th, 2012
11:43 am
I am VERY happy that we did not “get” Grienke. He is a rental that might be only for two months. We can bid on him after the season. If he would have signed an extension prior to completing the trade that would have been different.
I have a fair amount of confidence in Medlen being a starter.
Overall, GREAT job by Wren not doing this trade.
74bravesjersey
July 28th, 2012
11:44 am
Dang forgot the ‘n’ in know you’re zone, got in a rush here.
Worthless Wren & Haven't got a clue Fredi
July 28th, 2012
11:45 am
Wren and Fredi do the best imitation of Mutt & Jeff I know – neither one can do anything constructive without falling all over themselves…….Wish they both were run out of town.
Wish BMoney knew how to spell......
July 28th, 2012
11:47 am
BMoney – it is obvious, you mean “KNEW” or maybe you are just ignorant and didn’t know……..
B MONEY
July 28th, 2012
11:48 am
GO BRAVES , MEDLAN IS THE MAN
Supes
July 28th, 2012
11:49 am
As usual a LOT of ignorance going on here…Jeff is right about one thing…DOING NOTHING is not going to benefit this team.
Has Wren acquired an ace pitcher or impact player? No
Has Wren of Fredo moved Kris Medlen to the starting rotation (and putting Delgado in the pen not AAA)? No
As currently constructed our starting 5, are they able to win a WS? If you think (yes) I have some ocean side property to sell near KC, MO
So how is WREN doing NOTHING benefiting the Braves (Yes you wise a&& prospect huggers that are glad we haven’t landed a SP or impact player as of right now)
One last point, I’m so fraking tired of reading (well we don’t wanna give up 2 prospects for a 2 month rental)…DUDE where did you see that it was a GUARANTEED 2 month rental? Where? Something could have been worked out as to have him sign a 5-6 year extension here you know! Did Wren even TRY to work on this deal? I guess we’ll never know…all I know is that the Angels just “got that much closer to a post season run” and the Braves…well we got a 41 year old scrap pile reject to add to our pen…
74bravesjersey
July 28th, 2012
11:49 am
Hey Boy’s, just keep playin w/ the swag, let last year be last year but not forgotten only to be reminded of to why you want each atbat each pitch to be clutch, & not crumble. Make em’ count, to mean somethin’ to ya. Find’in success when everybody else say’s you can’t do it.
Ralph
July 28th, 2012
11:51 am
Put Medlen in the rotation and call up Buddy Carlyle to replace him in the pen.
Marco Pillow Throwerder
July 28th, 2012
11:54 am
Ugg’s sucks!
Marco Pillow Throwerder
July 28th, 2012
11:56 am
Braves need a A 2b right now. We all see it but Fredi or Wren dont care.
Ralph
July 28th, 2012
11:56 am
Venters looked real shaky last nite, he was lucky to get out of their with his scalp! still throwing a lot of balls in the dirt, he scares the hell out of me.
Ralph
July 28th, 2012
12:01 pm
How about trying to get Reed Johnson from the Cubs.
Tom(Independent Viet Vet USAF)
July 28th, 2012
12:02 pm
This is meant as a serious suggestion – Send Dan Uggla to McCann’s dad and brother for hitting guidance. It seems to work for Mac? Or is that too insulting a thought for the Braves hitting coaches? We have Uggla for the next 4 yrs, try something unconventional if necessary?
BravesWin
July 28th, 2012
12:03 pm
I have to agree with the sentiment that a big move would be useless with our current manager.
Marco Pillow Throwerder
July 28th, 2012
12:03 pm
Id just make Venters throw strikes if I were a hitter. Hed walk you a lot.
Ralph
July 28th, 2012
12:11 pm
I’m just glad that Matt Garza is out of action until after the Deadline, otherwise Wren would probably give up Delgado for his sorry ass.
Ozzie
July 28th, 2012
12:11 pm
Here is the bottom line on Braves pitching – its 5-6 inning starts and pray the pen can hold the lead or stop the bleeding.
Playoff teams and certainly WS contenders don’t operate that way.
If Wren thinks beating teams with 5.5 inning starts will last all summer, into Sept & the post season he is likely pouring bourbon on his Cheerios every day.
Teams that win the WS have multiple 210-220/yr inning starters who pitch multiple complete games a year, regularly pitch 7-8 innings and can pitch great on 3 days rest.
None of those attributes exist with the Braves rotation.
Having said that unless Greinke, Hudson and Sheets could pitch every game in a series and almost every game in September (to avoid a collapse) this team is two starters not one short of a legitimate playoff rotation.
Couple that with the yoyo offense and you just don’t have a team that is one player away from contending. It is a nice mirage and at times looks very real but it still a mirage.
Wren should be making trades for next year (unless he could have gotten Dempster and Greinke) like getting Justin Upton so you have a LF in 2013.
Getting a CF prospect who is ready for 2013 and or keeping close tabs on BJ Upton (the latter bc Bourn is too expensive looking even now, image the off season).
Get some quality 3B prospects in case you can trade Uggla and move Prado back to his proper spot 2B.
Heck if the Braves had a clear objective few on the realities of the rotation they would trade Bourn now to a WS contender and reap an excellent bounty.
Far fetched? Put it this way if the Braves were in another 6-8 game losing streak (Chipper goes down again and we will see one) and in third place drifting lower Wren would trade Bourn just like he traded Tex when the wheels came off. Tex was a far better player & an RBI guy yet Wren dropped him like a bag of dirt (for nothing) after they were swept by the Phillies in late July.
Shooting the wad on one pitcher is a desperation move to cover up the fact Wren should have made 2-3 moves in the off seaon to prepare for a legitimate playoff run and avoid another embarrassing collapse.
JS promised change in 2012 an they did nothing so I say play with the hand you wanted bc discount trades and DFA dumpster diving rarely results in miracles.
Peter R.
July 28th, 2012
12:12 pm
Well, I completely disagree. The Braves have a nice chance to build on their youth movement and get something going with a moderately sized payroll. A guy who can win 12 or 13 games while getting paid the league minimum is a big plus in my opinion. I would rather the Braves set themselves up to be competitive over 3 or 4 seasons rather than just have one run. Here we are today and we’re only 4 games back when every major sports news source every where predicted the Braves would be 4th overall. I think the Angels gave up way too much to get Greinke. The Braves made the right call. If they only get bullpen and bench help, then I’ll understand because starting pitching at this trade deadline is at an all time high in demand. I don’t want to see another former Braves prospect winning 12 games before the all star break. Sorry, but I have to agree with Wren on this one.
Ozzie
July 28th, 2012
12:13 pm
few – view, typo
bustersonly
July 28th, 2012
12:14 pm
Please Mr Wren, don’t be making “Changes for Change Sake” just get rid of Uggla, he is the only thing that is hurting us right now.
the truth...
July 28th, 2012
12:19 pm
Greinke….Braves or Angels?
The Angels, who spent $317.5 million this offseason on Pujols and Wilson and are currently sporting a franchise-record $151 million payroll, are buoyed by a huge new television contract that gives them a reasonable shot of retaining Greinke beyond this season.
Do you get it yet?
Marco Pillow Throwerder
July 28th, 2012
12:20 pm
Im glad that didnt get Ryan Dumpster but surprised since Wren searches in DUMPSTERS for pitching.
chris
July 28th, 2012
12:20 pm
If we cant get an arm get some bats..at least we can score 15 runs to keep up with pitching staff we have…..JJ needs to go- we’ve given him another shot and he’s showed hes just not got same stuff and location as a few years back…put Medlen in there and see what he can do…cant put Grienke or Dempster in there for sure
Marco Pillow Throwerder
July 28th, 2012
12:23 pm
Braves will have McCann,Bourn,Chipper money to spend next year. At least Chippers 16 million to get a pitcher.
Sweet, Old Buck
July 28th, 2012
12:23 pm
Come on, Jeff! The Brewers wanted a young shortstop. They, first, asked Texas for Profar. He was off limits. The Angels gave them what they wanted – a shortstop who was their top rated prospect.
Marco Pillow Throwerder
July 28th, 2012
12:25 pm
How can Uggla be this bad? Hes the worst hitter in MLB thats a starter. Just release him. Please play somebody else ar 2b. I beg you…
JoeFan
July 28th, 2012
12:30 pm
Don’t have a problem with not selling out for Greinke. Wren can fix the rotation by inserting Medlen for JJ and if Hanson doesn’t improve replacing him with Delgado. Strengthen the bench and bullpen and the Braves will stay in the hunt for a playoff spot. Also want hurt if Uggla begins to hit. The time to restructure this team is in the offseason when Wren should have the monetary and player flexibility to rebuild the roster.
Keith
July 28th, 2012
12:45 pm
Jeff,
I usually agree with you, but this time I’m undecided.
Let’s say this offer was presented to Wren:
Greinke for the rest of the year
FOR
Delgado + Teheran
Would you have done it?
Keith
July 28th, 2012
12:46 pm
While knowing that you will have to pay $20 MIL per year at a minimum to pick him up long-term. Wed don’t currently have a player we’re paying 20 MIL per.
I don’t think that would have been a smart trade.
Now if it would have been
Greinke for
Delgado….Absolutely!!!
Greinke for Teheran – Yep!!!
But not both.
I still am hoping they will be able to get a starter, and I’m ok with dempster but would prefer Johnson. However, johnson will be both of those guys + probably another prospect from the reports.
GO BRAVES!!
Ultimatum
July 28th, 2012
1:01 pm
Don’t blame Wren, blame the awful Liberty Media ownership. If the Braves don’t make a significant move, Atlantans should call their cable provider and demand a package that does not include Liberty channels. They don’t care about Atlanta, evidenced by the fact that they never invest in winning.
Liberty: make a deal or get out of Atlanta!!!
nobobfan
July 28th, 2012
1:01 pm
To summarize the literati: we have a looser manager & a guy with Pop Pie arms stinks, and a fellow named Medlin should start if we can’t get Grinky.
All caught up on past few days? Good.
Keith
July 28th, 2012
1:03 pm
Agree, Wren does a smashing job with the payroll he has to work with.
Go BRAVES!
Ken Jacobsen
July 28th, 2012
1:13 pm
I’m just thinking… wouldn’t it be more sensible to judge Wren’s moves for this team after 4:00 on Tuesday instead of today?
Don't give a dang.....
July 28th, 2012
1:21 pm
I don’t give a dang about make Chipper’s last year great……he has had a bunch of years to make it great and just hasn’t got the job done…..I hope when he is gone – HE IS GONE FOR GOOD!
bvilebaron
July 28th, 2012
1:24 pm
You really want to know what is getting old? Constant whining by your Mr. Schultz and the Wren bashers about how he has run this team. How about if we inject some objectivity and facts into this analysis, huh?
Wren basically stole Bourn at the deadline last year and he has been terrific this year in case you haven’t noticed. After they lost Beachy, who only happened to be leading the NL in ERA at the time, for the year, he goes out and signs Ben Sheetz, who has given up exactly 1 run in the first 18 innings he pitched.
He had a deal in place for Dempster (which I was not in favor of given what he was giving up and the fact that he is overrated) and it blew up because Dempster had a hissy fit about the deal being made public. Given the amount of money the Phillies, the NL East’s version of the Yankees, paid to re-up for Hamels, Wren probably concluded (rightfully IMHO) that the probably couldn’t afford him when he hits free agency this offseason and thus it made no sense to give up most likely prize prospect Teheran and more given what the Angels paid to rent Greinke for 2 months. Besides, if they truly feel they can afford him, the can get involved in the bidding this offseason.
Your comments about the old days with the Braves are also off the mark. The Braves currently are owned by Liberty Media, have a lousy TV contract, poor attendance and are no longer owned by Ted Turner in case you haven’t noticed. This is the way it is folks. Given all of that, it makes no sense to mortgage the future for a 2 month rental who does not GUARANTEE a playoff spot.
Finally, the trading deadline is Tuesday and this is Saturday folks. Wren made the Bourn deal on the last day last year which was wise since the price tag went down by then. Let’s see what does or does not happen between now and then before you start writing these childish articles.
J-MAN
July 28th, 2012
1:31 pm
Wren hasnt only done an average job at best with the pay roll
Were paying Lowe 10 mil not to pitch here
We are paying Uggla 12 mil to lead the league in strike outs and to be slightly above .200 as a Brave
Chipper while having a good season is making 14 million. A lot for a part time player.
Thats a good chunk of money right there. In fact if Prado, Bourn and Kimbrel havent been there to bail us out we wuld be in trouble.
Also Wren has stood pat when he needed to make a move during this off-season (Particularly trading Jurrjens when he had value, many people called for that move to be made including myself)
I think we should go for Edinson Volquez he has a 3.20 ERA he eats up innings and is top 10 in opponents batting avg. against.
the truth...
July 28th, 2012
1:32 pm
@Don’t give a dang…..
You are a complete MORON
J-MAN
July 28th, 2012
1:35 pm
I always thought Wren did his best job when it comes to trades such as the Javier Vazquez deals and the Bourn deal. I just dont understand why he is standing pat.
iopbrave
July 28th, 2012
1:42 pm
Braves TV contract sucks so they have no money to compete- doubtful that Liberty will spend any more money than they have, too. I believe the Liberty CEO’s annual pay is almost equal to the Braves annual payroll! 24 more years on the TV contract- they should tar and feather whomever made that deal.
We’ll continue to check out all the old washed-up, released players such as Batista since they are in a our budget.
Go Braves!
J-MAN
July 28th, 2012
1:56 pm
Liberty medis spends money 90 million aint nothing to blink at but we are wasting a good chunk of money on players that underperform.
Lowe 10 mil not to pitch here
Uggla 13 million
Chipper 14 million great player but 14 mil is too much to pay a part time player
Jurrjens 6 million
Matt Diaz 2.5 million
Keith
July 28th, 2012
2:09 pm
Re:bvilebaron
Exactly! With the Sheets signing and if he can land one more starter, Wren will be up for GM of the year!! Mark my words. Not sure if he’ll get it, but you watch, he’ll be at the top of the list if that happens.
GO BRAVES
Biggun
July 28th, 2012
2:11 pm
A trade for the sake of a trade makes about as much sense as hiring a newspaper columnist to be the general manager of the team. Im sure Mr. Wren sees the big picture better then we, the fans, do.
jt
July 28th, 2012
2:12 pm
Hell Jeff, I predicted this Wren jerk, would not get a quality pitcher 45 days ago. He get everyone pumped up, and then Nothing. As far at the bench hitter, I guess he considers Bautista for that. I also predicted that as well, after all we have Hinske don’t we?
These guys are not willing to part with the money it takes to get someone like Greinke, or that jerk from the Cubs. Same Ole S@@t different year.
SAL
July 28th, 2012
2:12 pm
This team has not been consistent enough to convince me overpaying for a rental player makes sense. Hovering around 10 games over .500 is not getting it done. If you are a wildcard team it is a one game play in. I think Wren is correct in not panicing like many are encouraging him to do. Sheets has been a big surprise so Braves have added a solid starter. Perhaps Medlin moving to the rotation and another solid reliever to take his place will suffice. Remember the current dry spell in post season is due to the Shurholtz panic give away to Texas. In Shurholtz’s defense though at least he went after an everyday player not a guy who plays once every 5 days.
Ozzie
July 28th, 2012
2:13 pm
The Braves payroll is 87mm. Not 90 or 95mm. The Braves payroll in 2000 was 92mm more or less.
So 12 years of inflation and the Braves payroll is at best the same as it was 12 years ago or 5mm less.
Now the book keeping is all over the place here but these #s are in the ballpark.
Under corporate ownership of AOL/TW and Liberty the Braves payroll has stagnated. They are in a purgatory.
Either go young and lop payroll down to 65mm or go all in at 100-110mm but sitting in this vomit inducing”almost” range has to stop. 87mm is just enough to make you believe you can win it all but it turns out not to be the case.
At least with 65mm you have a fat profit margin which can accrue for a few years (offering opps to spike payroll when the kids prove ready/worthy of a run) and you give young players a chance to actually develop with contained expectations.
Fencing sitting payrolls are painful to watch. You make bad decisions, you rush or expect to much from prospects, you cannot afford even one bad contract and you look the fool come the hot stove season being rejected by every player worth a darn and or missing out time and again b/c you cannot afford to add that extra 2-5mm to a deal.
Ozzie
July 28th, 2012
2:15 pm
Run on sentence there at the end… too quick to post…
longtimefan
July 28th, 2012
2:21 pm
Many of you judge Wren retrospectively on deals as if all other GMs hit home runs on every free agent signing and trade acquisition. Wren has done a good job working within the financial confines set by ownership. The naysayers give no credit to Wren for signing Sheets who has given up one run in 3 starts and has cost the club no prospects and is likely playing for near minimum salary. The Bourne acquisition for 1 and1/2 years at all-star caliber play was a steal. Lowe was serviceable and an innings eater when the Braves were desperate for SP and won something like 15 games 2 years running. He inherited a GM position several years ago needing 3-4 SP with limited options. He has not mortgaged the Farm and has held on to the Future-Heyward, Freeman, Simmons, Prado and the many young arms. I believe FW has done a good job. Beachy will be back sometime next year and the young arms will shake out to provide a couple of solid starters. It is so easy to criticize someones actions after the fact. I remember several years ago many of the same “experts” here calling for Wren to sign Jason Bay for north of 100M. How’s that working out for the Mets? I’m glad the career baseball guys are taking care of business instead of the armchair critics.