Braves, Wren whiff on Greinke — and this is getting old
Zack Greinke: On his way to Angels. (AP)
Frank Wren: Looking for help. (Curtis Compton)
(UPDATED: 9:10 p.m.)
The first pitcher they went after (Ryan Dempster) said no. He prefers Los Angeles.
The second pitcher they went after (Zack Greinke) was traded to Los Angeles (no, not that L.A. team, the other L.A. team).
The Braves are trying to get better before Tuesday’s trade deadline. We think. But this journey is turning into some weird nightmare, or at least a Randy Newman retrospective. (“I Love L.A.!”)
Remember when the Braves used to get what they want? Remember when 90-plus-win seasons and playoff games seemed as plentiful as potato chips?
General manager Frank Wren said Friday night that he didn’t believe the Braves were close to a trade for a starting pitcher of significance. No kidding. I’m not sure how many are left.
When Wren was asked if he was balking at parting with a coveted prospect like Julio Teheran for a rental player like Greinke, he responded: “I really don’t want to go there. We’ve had a sense for what [teams] are looking for with all these big guys. Some may be a little cost prohibitive.”
And there it is.
At some point, maybe it will be about this season, not next year or the one after that. But right now it’s not looking that way.
The Braves still have a few days until Tuesday’s 4 p.m. deadline to fix their starting rotation, which has been dropping engine parts for the past several miles. But if they don’t succeed, it will be because Frank “You’ll Get My Prospects When You Pry Them From My Cold Dead Hands” Wren is focused on tomorrow, not today. Again.
Try to explain that to the players in the clubhouse. They believe the team needs a boost to catch Washington in the East (or survive a six-team wild-card cage match with all limbs intact.)
Even Tim Hudson, the current No. 1 starter, said of the team’s attempts to get a starting pitcher: “Everybody’s encouraged by it. It’s an area that’s been inconsistent for us all year. We’re here to win. There’s no reason to take it personally – unless I’m being bumped out of a job.”
It’s obvious where Chipper Jones stands. This is his last season. He wants another shot at the World Series.
When word circulated the other day that Florida had exploded another dumb-bomb and traded Hanley Ramirez to the Dodgers, signaling a housecleaning, Jones was sitting on the Braves’ team bus in Miami. On walked Wren. Jones began his mock throat-clearing and in a humorous hoarse tone said, “Josh Johnson!”
Wren smiled. But he didn’t make a move.
Wren satisfied the Cubs in a potential trade for Dempster, so we can’t put that one on him. (Dempster still hasn’t been traded to the Dodgers, so there’s at least some possibility he could change his stance.) But Wren generally has been resistant to parting with top young pitchers Teheran and Randall Delgado for a potential rental player.
The Brewers traded Greinke to the Angels (for shortstop Jean Segura and two prospects) because Wren wouldn’t give up enough for a pitcher who potentially could lead them to a World Series. The Marlins are asking for the moon and the sun for Johnson, as they should. He’s not only good, he’s signed through next season. He might be worth more than even Greinke. Great players don’t come for cheap.
Sports Illustrated’s Tom Verducci reaffirmed the upside for teams that acquire starting pitchers at the deadline. He noted that over the past five years, contenders have traded for 19 starting pitchers in July. Those pitchers accumulated a record of 94-45. Nine pitched in the postseason. That includes Edwin Jackson, who went 6-3 (including playoffs) with St. Louis last year following a trade and helped the Cardinals to the World Series. Verducci referenced other recent “sudden-impact” pitchers at the deadline: Cliff Lee (Texas, Philadelphia), Roy Oswalt (Philadelphia), Ted Lilly (L.A. Dodgers), C.C. Sabathia (Milwaukee) and Joe Blanton (Philadelphia).
Friday did not pass without the Braves making a move. They signed 41-year-old Miguel Batista, who was just released by the New York Mets, to a minor-league contract.
Wren doesn’t necessarily see Batista being called up and becoming a factor for the Braves down the stretch. But you never know. It was worth a shot. Batista comes cheap. And isn’t that what’s most important of all?
By Jeff Schultz
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445 comments Add your comment
Sheriff
July 28th, 2012
9:02 am
We may not have been able to get Greinke even though we really did need him ( Plus he actually wanted to come to Atlanta ) but we have got to bring in someone who can contribute right away in our rotation. I have been overwelmigly surprised by Ben Sheets productivity thus far. Not sure if anyone saw that coming. Delgado and Company just aren’t pitching like they are ready for the big leagues quite yet and if we are going to make a run at anything other than exiting the Wildcard Series, we need a frontline guy. Frank Wren is constantly in the media talking about how he wants to do go after this position and that position but most of the time, it turns into nothing because it cost too much, or we get some scrub that has been released by another team. The media needs to pounce on Frank Wren if we want him to be pressured to complete this team. It’s bad enough that we can’t fill up the seats at the stadium, but we need a Rotation that is feared like it used to be. This is obviously just my opinion but let me know what you think.
Thanks.
PMc
July 28th, 2012
9:05 am
If Teheran is so good he can’t be traded why isn’t he pitching NOW???
Sheriff
July 28th, 2012
9:08 am
I couldn’t agree more PMc. We have so many of these “Golden, Untouchable” Prospects, yet they either haven’t shown that they are Great or haven’t had the chance to show it. To me, until it is proven that they can live up to all the hype given to them by the media and scouts, they are just another Minor league player.
74bravesjersey
July 28th, 2012
9:08 am
Alright then; Tons & Tons of frustration mounted here. What to do, work within ourselves suppose? Alright uncle Frank, you feel snake bitten, well, please move medlen to the rotation, then look for bullpen help which would come much cheaper, see, be creative in the looking process. If plan A’ isn’t workin’ have plans B’ to Z’ in the ondeck circle. C’mon man, get with it, if it’s w/ a budget, then get creative intelligently, cause, it’s obvious Meds needs to come to the rotation, then find a couple of sturdy bullpen pieces(not 41 yr.old Bautista-has been), & looks like Durbin’s really stepped up his game to be that void of Med’s spot. Call up Mejia, Durango if you can’t get a decent righthanded bat. Mejia’s hitting what? 275 avg. 21 Hr’s. Get him to learn to play OF as well, let Prado cover 3B/2ndBase. Let Chipper(&his Dad-McCanns Bro.& Dad) help Uggla quit lookin’ awefully ugly up there since Walk & Fletch can’t help em’. All in All get creative.
the truth...
July 28th, 2012
9:08 am
@nninWithTheDawgs
Uggla and Bourne not producing? You’re right on half of that………..and dead wrong on the other…
Bourne is a super producer…so much that his free agent price may be so high we can’t re-sign him…
Uggla is a different story…I didn’t like the trade then and still don’t like it. I would rather have kept Infante and Dunn and done without Uggla’s 40 home runs he has hit in the 2 years he’s been here….about half of them have been with no one on and had no bearing on the win-loss outcome.
Dr. Phil
July 28th, 2012
9:13 am
I like this team. They are mismanaged on the field and in the front office, yet they continue to win more than they lose. They certainly will not get far in post season, even if they make it to the wild card. There are too many pieces missing, and Wren’s head is buried in the sand up to his buttocks. As long as Wren is calling the shots, the Braves will be stuck on “pretty good team.”
Hugh Jass
July 28th, 2012
9:13 am
The Braves would be morons to trade Teheran and Delgado. I am actually glad that Dempster turned them down and we still have Delgado. A rental player is not worth our top prospects.
Uncle Tom
July 28th, 2012
9:18 am
The real problem is here LIBERTY MEDIA. Come on Ted, come back!
74bravesjersey
July 28th, 2012
9:23 am
It is kinda cool though that we we’re able to take it to Mr. 6 yr.144mil. dollar Braves beater Hamels after he gots his big signin’ out of the way. That felt good. McCanns just unloaded upon Mr. 144mil-invincible. Just hope to keep rollin’. See, Chipper & the clubhouse see what we see,the need of creativity, reinforcements that can stir things up. Only wish’n. We did see the move for Bourne last year, Awesome, & hope to afford to keep ‘em. Be smartly creative.
reckingball
July 28th, 2012
9:29 am
The Angels trade their #1, #4, and #9 prospects for Greinke(who reportedly has head problems), and will want $20million(plus) a year to sign a long term contract.
And this is what Shultz and his legion of puppydog followers, want the Braves to do?
Sell the farm for a 2 month rental?
That would be a moronic move.
74bravesjersey
July 28th, 2012
9:31 am
Yes Liberty Media has the team in Bondage. Mabey some one from the brass can talk to them about increasing payroll, & tell them of the increase revenue & the advantages of having a world championship Baseball team could bring to their market. The Ceo’s secretary could answere the phone(Hello Liberty Media & owner of 2012, 13 World Champion Atlanta Braves, How may I take you’re Call?). Only wishin’ right?
John
July 28th, 2012
9:33 am
I think Liberty Media is ruining the Braves frankly. If Ted Turner still owned the Braves, you think he would sit still and let the Nationals run away with the division while not making an investment in the team! I think it is time Major League Baseball, are you listening Bud Selig force the corporate cheapo who is only concerned about profits and the bottom line to sell this team to a legitimate owner. And owner who is willing put a good product on the field, one that the fans of Atlanta can be proud of.
don
July 28th, 2012
9:41 am
Well, I’m no fan of Wren and have made that obvious many times in posts. However, if he has really learned from the Teixeira trade, the Drew trade, and a few others, I am sure glad he is GM rather than Schultz.
I suspect that many want to throw caution to the wind to “win one last one for Chipper”. Why? There is no legitimate reason to clean out the minors again just to try to bring a happy ending to the career of a 40 year old part time player.
steve
July 28th, 2012
9:53 am
wren is doing the right thing remember the TEX trade look how that back fired… Wren will make a trade to improve the braves i see them getting a right handed bat and a SP if the price is right. They will have money to sign FA after the season.
drew
July 28th, 2012
9:55 am
Yeah, the Braves suck, yada yada….Wren sucks, yada yada…it’s Chipper last year yada yada…so let’s do the desperate thing and trade away the future. Right…got Texiera?
Schultz does a good job pointing out the deadline trades that worked out…how about the ones that didn’t. It’s a crapshoot. Someone else already said it, but we don’t need to empty the pantry for a starter. Medlin is the guy we need to add to the rotation.
the truth...
July 28th, 2012
9:57 am
Jeff………….are you a moron? Have you lost touch with reality ?
Comparing the Braves to the Angels in the trade for Greinke is ….well, just absurd.
The Angels budget is almost $65 MILLION more than the Braves…..
They signed Pujols to a contract worth almost $300 MILLION…..
They have Trout the Rookie of the Year in the AL and maybe MVP….for peanuts…the MLB minimum…
They can AFFORD to give away a top prospect…..
AND MOST IMPORTANTLY they can actually affor do sign Greink to a long term deal…………
The Braves can not afford it………………..plain and simple………..
This article frankly make you look stupid Jeff….have you lost your mind?
the truth...
July 28th, 2012
10:03 am
Wow … the past 6-7 comments actually make sense and reinforce the logic of NOT giving away our young pitchers for a pipe dream….
Sorry Chipper, the bottom line is the Braves don’t have the resources to sign all the pieces it would take to PERHAPS be capable of going to the WS in your swan song year….
Remember even if they had the dough, and went all out with it to “strengthen” the team, it WOULD NOT GUARANTEE ANYTHING other than we could play the last of the 162 game 2012 season….
the truth...
July 28th, 2012
10:03 am
NO RENTALS
KEEP DELGADO
patrick
July 28th, 2012
10:10 am
After reading all these blogs… None of you deserve to be Braves fans go somewhere else. You aren’t in the front office and have no idea what’s going on. Uggla is struggling yes but he is also a leader and plays hard no matter what. Remember mortgaging the future for Mark Texiera yeah the rangers are still thanking us for that. So I would be a little catious giving up JT, Delgado Spruill and more for an ace we have a 50 50 chance of re signing. The Braves have a legit shot at catching the Nats and winning the N.L.
As B1 said go back to your church league softball teams!
Patrick
July 28th, 2012
10:16 am
Jeff,
I wanted to compliment you on writing a great article!
I know that in bigger markets, the media can have a big effect on what teams do.
I am glad to FINALLY see an Atlanta reporter but some SERIOUS heat on the team for their lack of a commitment to win and point out the fact that they need to spend money in order to take this team to the next level and also question the Front Office if they are even committed to doing that.
So, BRAVO for writing this Jeff. I hope that this does something to light a fire (even just a small one) with the front office.
I hope that you continue to write pieces like this. That bring heat, give due criticism and basically just tell the truth.
Keep up the Excellent work!
Jeff
July 28th, 2012
10:17 am
Braves Suck-
You’re a complete idiot, dude. All you’re doing is ranting about nothing. As if any anything you say has any substance at all. The funny thing is you are right about one thing- the braves dont have superstars…and actually they do not suck…at all. So you really look like a total moron posting that complete waste of space on this website. You are referencing absolutely nothing. Also funny….you mention management!!!! As if management even controls or has any influence whatsoever on whether or not the Braves sign superstars. I dont normally post stuff but you must be put in check for such idiotic, meaningless cr@p. Now go check on your fantasy team.
Marco Pillow Throwerder
July 28th, 2012
10:18 am
Liberty Media got 100 million in a lawsuit. They can afford to pay Josh Johnsons 9 million salary…
Time
July 28th, 2012
10:20 am
Another completely foolish column, filled with completely idiotic bloggers spouting nonsense.
You don’t trade the #1 prospect in baseball for a 2 month rental. Further, the Braves would be wise to avoid trading for a guy like Grienke, who they would feel pressured to resign to a mega-deal he doesn’t deserve. I can count on one finger the amount of pitcher mega-deals that have actually returned close to their contract value….CC. That’s it.
I think the pitching problems are greatly overblown. Especially by the dolts that write for this paper. If they do pursue a pitcher at all, it should be James Shields who has big game experience, strikes out a ton of guys, and fits the profile of a pitcher who would excel moving to the NL. And with a 7 million dollar salary next year, his arrival would not preclude the Braves from acquiring another impact player.
Which IMO, should be Justin Upton. If he’s truly on the market, I’d happily give up Julio and Delgado for him. Drop another 40 hr impact bat in the middle of this lineup and watch it really take off.
Marco Pillow Throwerder
July 28th, 2012
10:22 am
A little birdy told us he aint trading his hatchlings for a hawk.
Banned Poster
July 28th, 2012
10:25 am
Great article Jeff. Wren is sitting on his hands with these pitchers for three years now and they are not helping us and Teheran is going backwards. It is time to win now. Schurholtz made two bad moves when he gave up prospects and his last one he will never live down and for some reason that is stopping us from winning today. BS I call on that one. As for those of you who want Medlen in the rotation, that is fine, but the Braves are not going to win with 4 #3 starters. They need a top of the rotation guy and they need him NOW!
jek
July 28th, 2012
10:27 am
The real problem for Braves pitching is not that they did not make a deadline deal. It is that they went into the season in the first place with no improvement in the triple A level staff that caved at the end last year. And if the plan was to stick with the young “talent” that should have been ackowledged. My sense is that the talent was not that good, but I am not a big league GM. Also, the reason that Dumpster And Greinke don’t want to come is that they know that the Braves are a “cheap mode” team that would not make a real effort to bring them back for a longer term.Liberty- Frank- Freddie-hopeless!!
DawgDad
July 28th, 2012
10:33 am
Braves are in a position where no matter what Wren does he’ll be open to criticism. The “all-in” camp (which presumably would include Chipper and Bourn) doesn’t care about the prospects or how many years the Braves spend looking up at the rest of the league. It’s possible another Tex-trade could cost Wren his job, and he has to be VERY careful who he signs up for 1/5 of the payroll, if anybody.
It’s possible the Brewers just liked the Angels prospects better than what Atlanta had to offer, the Dempster trade falling through was a blessing in disguise, and I still think there are pitchers out there who could help. The Braves have other needs that might be more pressing and should not be ignored, say, a big right-handed bat.
The players on the roster need to produce – Minor, Delgado, Medlen, and Teheran between them need to hold down the fourth and fifth spots in the rotation and be ready to step up if one of the “Big 3″ falters or goes down. Uggla and Paul Janish need to stop competing for the Mendoza batting title. The bench needs to get some timely hits, and the bullpen needs to hold up.
Cecil34
July 28th, 2012
10:43 am
Word has gotten out throughout the MLB that this organization is wanting to operate on the cheap with no true commitment to winning aything, just staying competitive, (Liberty Media) so no one of substance wants to come here.
They know that there will be no blockbuster contracts coming out of this organization, therefore no one wants to come here to perform for 2.5 months, just to move on after the season.
That, coupled with perhaps some misgivings concerning the coaching staff, has put the death knell on any trades of significance.
Bobbymahlon
July 28th, 2012
10:47 am
74bravesjersey: At this moment Mejia is batting .307,74RBIs,21homers with 7 stolen bases.
Bobbymahlon
July 28th, 2012
10:51 am
Mejia was a left fielder before he grew, but he can’t be worse than the water buffalo in left. He also could give Freeman a break against some of these tough left handers.
lee
July 28th, 2012
10:57 am
Forget the pitchers. Trade for Hunter Pence, move Prado to second and Ugs to the bench or AAA.
Stinger2
July 28th, 2012
11:01 am
The Braves GM has made both mistakes and correct decisions…like we all do.
At this point concerning a move to improve the club with about 60 plus games to play, he has not made a mistake. The Braves will not be in a position to sign Grenike to a 100M contract which it will take to get him as a non 2 month rental. With Dempster, who wants him? Also a probable rental and given his attitude.
Give Wren until the deadline to make the right decision before you pass judgment on his non-action as of this a:m.
Ralph
July 28th, 2012
11:02 am
Jeff – Help me out on this, does Wren consider Teheran to have more trade value than Delgado, I don’t get it, he was willing to give up Delgado for Dempster but wouldn’t give up Teheran for Greinke. Teheran is going backward, has an terrible year compared to last year. I know he is still young but he ain’t getting younger. Delgado shows great promise and should be taken completely off the table.
74bravesjersey
July 28th, 2012
11:04 am
@Bobbymahlon; Thanks for the heads up about Mejia. Could Wren & Gonzo have the fourthrite to give Mejia a shot, since he’s paid his dues in the minors to bring him up before he wastes away?
Ralph
July 28th, 2012
11:05 am
Get Uggla out of the line-up, put Prado on 2B and get a big bat left fielder and we will be ok with the pitching we have once Simmons returns.
Deadline Dopes
July 28th, 2012
11:08 am
To give up multiple PITCHING prospects for a player that is not going to sign long term makes little sense. How did you think we got so lean in starters? By trading away players like Matt Harrison, Neftali Feliz. Those players have been contributing to the Rangers’ success for years now. If that’s not enough Evis Andrus certainly could have helped this team as well.
I’m not saying never to trade prospects. But be smart about it. This team has to realize that it will not be able to spend big dollars on big names. So they have to win with their kids before they become FA’s. The only way to do that is to stock up on prospects, hopefully SOME of them will work out.
Also, giving up the farm for greinke, does that make us WS contenders? I think not, unless you can clone him 3 times. Bringing greinke in would move presumably JJ out of the rotation; but you still have MINOR, DELGADO, and HANSON. All of those are woefully inconsistent. And Sheets? Seriously, bionic man? If he can keep this up, great. But I doubt he can; and when he falters, then what?
Deadline Dopes
July 28th, 2012
11:10 am
Also, why is Medlen pitching long relief still? Can Martinez not handle it? On a team that is hurting for STARTING pitching, why is Kris still wasting away in the bullpen?
George Allen
July 28th, 2012
11:11 am
Unfair write-up on Frank Wren…might have been fair if Nats were pursuing Greinke and got him, but emptying the farm system for two months of a pitcher is not the answer. (IMO)
panamajack
July 28th, 2012
11:14 am
If I were Fredi/Frank I would try to trade Uggla for any prospect, if they can’t find any takers (which I doubt) they should approach Danny Boy and tell him “say look, we are giving you two choices, you can either willingly go to AAA and get your sh*t together or ride the bench the rest of the year, you are hurting our chances of making the play-offs” end of conversation.
George T.
July 28th, 2012
11:16 am
Bobby and John for Frank and Fredi……how is that working out?
Jack Dennis TN
July 28th, 2012
11:17 am
Pitcher, hell! They need a RH hitter. Still. When Pastornicky is used as a PH, you know you’ve got severe bench problems.
panamajack
July 28th, 2012
11:20 am
If I were Fredi/Frank I would first try to trade Uggly for any prospect, that having failed I would approach Danny Boy and tell him, we are giving you two choices, you can either willingly go to AAA and get your sh*t together or you can ride the bench the rest of the season as a pinch hitter.
Frank is an EMBARASSMENT!!!
July 28th, 2012
11:22 am
Frank Wren is an embarrassment to the city of Atlanta – He can’t get anything done – He is Useless…..I don’t give a crap about getting Chipper some kind of win……I care about winning period….All I have heard from this blog for the last couple of years – is the future – is the future – The Future is NOW…..Frank Wren is about as useful as tits on a boar hog…….
Marco Pillow Throwerder
July 28th, 2012
11:22 am
Braves have Chippers money next year to sign any pitcher so the last 7 blogs are idiocy…
Ken Stallings
July 28th, 2012
11:23 am
Jeff,
You so clearly graduated from the emotional school of journalism! So often the theme of your columns (such as this one) center of themes of people being incompetent, or foolish. The world doesn’t work that way!
Frank Wren doesn’t operate in a vacuum. The reason the Braves under Ted Turner’s ownership got those players is because Turner was willing to spend the money, even to incur a temporary loss, to win! Liberty Media doesn’t think that way. Wren has a budget and he will be fired if he exceeds it. It is a simple reality. Most everyone sees it, and I know you see it also. So, stop patronizing us and write columns that accurately reflect this truth!
Given this financial reality, and the consequence that the Braves are truly no longer a player on that $100 million/five year contract for a free agent field, it is vital to draft and groom a strong farm system. Wren is intelligent to understand this, and in this respect, he is showing a keener insight to reality than did the vaunted John Scheurholtz who traded the farm for Mark Texeria thinking the Braves could leverage Georgia connections for a hometown discount.
Texeria instead made it very clear that in any long-term contract his mantra was “Show me the money!” The Braves traded him to Anaheim just to hope to salvage something of value for him when he predictably packed his bags for the mega-money in the Bronx. A better balanced column would have at least made passing reference to this factor!
I congratulate Wren for understanding his situation. Perhaps you can write columns that better reflect that you understand this situation — which again I am confident that you do. In the course of doing this, you better reveal that you understand your readers are not fools either, but rather people who see the reality also!
panamajack
July 28th, 2012
11:23 am
Tell Uggla, AAA or the bench, the choice is yours!
bustersonly
July 28th, 2012
11:29 am
Maybe Uggla would be willing to go to Gwinette to get his stuff together and come back with the September roster expansion, wouldn’t hurt to ask him.
Bobbymahlon
July 28th, 2012
11:31 am
74bravesjersey: Would hope so.
Ralph
July 28th, 2012
11:34 am
Yeah maybe they could hire B/Mac’s brother and Chipper’s dad to go to Gwinett with him for a little professional coaching.
danny
July 28th, 2012
11:34 am
If you folks can’t see the bigg picture here then I wonder where you’ve been.Schultz you are a friggin idiot. I love reading all the writers for AJC but you are just plain dumb. Sick of your negative comments and sick of you.