FSU to Big 12? School has inflated idea of self-worth
Jimbo Fisher and Florida State might think brand is worth more than it really is. (AP photo)
There is only one thing that throws me about this Florida State-to-the-Big-12 rumor that has been growing and mutating over the past several days: Do school officials consider themselves some kind of super power? Because I believe time machines are not applicable here.
In the last six years, Florida State has played in the Emerald Bowl, the Music City Bowl, the Champs Sports Bowl, the Gator Bowl, the Chick-fil-A Bowl and the Champs Sports Bowl again.
They have played in one BCS bowl (Orange) in the last eight seasons (and lost). They haven’t won any BCS bowl game since the national title 12 years ago.
They haven’t won the ACC since 2005. They have played in only one ACC championship game in the last six seasons.
Before a school starts making financial demands and threatening to change conferences, shouldn’t it at least have to win the ACC Atlantic Division more frequently than Boston College?
This, of course, is all about money. The problem is that Florida State is living in its super power past. It’s frustrated that the ACC is not the SEC. Every conference is frustrated that it’s not the SEC. But, sorry, when a conference wins six straight national championships, the result is not going to be a level playing field, least of all when it comes to television revenue.
The ACC and ESPN recently announced a 15-year, $3.6 billion contract. That averages out to $17.1 million per school per year, which certainly seems good. But the fact that the deal is back-loaded — it will take nine years before schools see a $17.1 million take – has some members grumbling, particularly Florida State, whose athletic department is facing a $2.4 million shortfall.
Andy Haggard, an FSU trustee, mouthed off to Warchant.com. He complained that the ACC surrendered its third-their television rights to ESPN for football but not basketball, seeming evidence that the conference was favoring the North Carolina-based schools for basketball reasons.
There was a problem with that statement: It wasn’t true. The school had to issue an apology Saturday night. This goes back to my theory that many members of a school’s Board of Trustees are little more than more than big-money boosters who get to go to meetings and, it follows, talk too much.
Seminoles coach Jimbo Fisher also said, “…I think you always have to look out there to see what’s best for Florida State. If that [jumping to the Big 12] is what’s best for Florida State, then that’s what we need to do.”
This from a coach who last season finished behind Clemson and Wake Forest. I’m not sure what Fisher believes the Florida State brand is worth right now, but I doubt the school can do better than what it has right now. Leverage comes with winning something.
By Jeff Schultz
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454 comments Add your comment
George Stein
May 15th, 2012
3:00 pm
Your a Moron – I guess you forgot about 14 years in a row in the top 5.
Ha. I’m pretty sure the moron is the one who doesn’t know the difference between your and you’re.
5150 UOAD
May 15th, 2012
3:00 pm
LMAFO…………RICHT was there for ALL those MNCs’ and Heisman Winners you Mo Ron. Without RICHT you would not have had all the tope 5 Finishes and MNC games. Go do some RESEARCH and get back to me. WHAT years were those 14 in a Row?
Don Green
May 15th, 2012
3:06 pm
I believe the Big 12 is going to go “all in” to make a power push to try to become the 2nd most powerful conference to the SEC. I think they would love to add FSU, Clemson, Georgia Tech, and Miami. And I think they are going all out to try to add Notre Dame as well.
None of it might happen of course but I don’t think it will be because they don’t try. The long term vision would be a 16 team superconference with essentially 4 scheduling pods:
1. Texas, Texas Tech, TCU, Baylor
2. Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas, Kansas State
3. FSU, Clemson, Georgia Tech, Miami
4. Notre Dame, Iowa State, West Virigina, Boston College
Other potential candidates are Louisville, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Maryland, Virginia Tech, South Florida, Central Florida, and BYU.
Again, not saying this has even a 10% chance of success, just think the Big12 will attempt to make a bold move. They didn’t go all the way East to pick up West Virginia to leave them hanging out there on their own.
Both the Texas and Oklahoma athletic departments are two of the shrewdish, most profitable business operations in college football.
Lots of interest for huge potential TV markets in that proposal in Dallas, Houston, Ft. Worth, Austin, San Antonio, El Paso, Tulsa, Oklahoma City, Kansas City, Atlanta, Miami, Charleston, Jacksonville, Tampa, Chicago, New York, Pittshburgh, and Boston.
Ultimately, they might only be able to cherry pick a team or two and be done. A lot depends on how the BCS playoff negotiations go. The Big 12 could just as easily stay at 10 teams if they feel that gives their teams the best shot to be in a Final Four format.
LMFAO
May 15th, 2012
3:11 pm
George Stein – Don’t quit your day job of correcting grammar on message boards
5150 UOAD
May 15th, 2012
3:13 pm
LMFAO…………LIVING in the PAST MUCH. Damn you are just like the MUTT fans.
2001 #15
2002 #21
2003 #11
2004 #15
2005 #23
2006 Unranked
2007 Unranked
2008 #21
2009 Unranked
2010 #17
2011 #23
So AFTER Richt Left FSU the Criminoles have not NOT been in the Top 10 Once in the final poll and have not SNIFFED a National Championship. FSU and Missing In Action MI have done NOTHING in the ACC except run your mouths just like UGa in the SEC. STFU and stroke your sQueer. I mean Spear.
LMFAO
May 15th, 2012
3:15 pm
5150 since you dont know how to use a computer I will help you:
Year Record AP Rank Championships Bowl
1987 11–1 2nd Won Fiesta
1988 11–1 3rd Won Sugar
1989 10–2 3rd Won Fiesta
1990 10–2 4th Won Blockbuster
1991 11–2 4th Won Cotton
1992 11–1 2nd ACC champions Won Orange
1993 12–1 1st ACC champions, National champions Won Orange
1994 10–1–1 4th ACC champions Won Sugar
1995 10–2 4th ACC co-champions Won Orange
1996 11–1 3rd ACC champions Lost Sugar
1997 11–1 3rd ACC champions Won Sugar
1998 11–2 3rd ACC co-champions Lost Fiesta
1999 12–0 1st ACC champions, National champions Won Sugar
2000 11–2 5th ACC champions Lost Orange
Mark Richt took over the OC job after the 1993 National Championship win. Read and learn
he was the QB coach before that starting in 1990. He was not the reason for the run that has not been equaled by any program.
LMFAO
May 15th, 2012
3:17 pm
5150 – Go grab your cheetos and jerk off in your double wide
Don Green
May 15th, 2012
3:18 pm
909:
I understand your PAC idea and its not unreasonable. But I can’t see Texas and Oklahoma ever going in a separate direction. The administrations of the two schools are tighter than most people realize, particularly at the Trustee level. The big oil boosters from Houston, Dallas, Oklahoma City, and Tulsa are together on this and it includes Texas Tech and Oklhoma State.
If 4 schools go together to the PAC it would be Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, and Oklahoma State and they could have done that both in 2010 and 2011 if they had wanted to do so. Kansas and Kansas Sate are the two who would be left out of that deal along with the private schools like TCU and Baylor.
LMFAO
May 15th, 2012
3:18 pm
Oh by the way the poodles have 4 years of history and thats Herschel Walker
Dan
May 15th, 2012
3:20 pm
Lets start, with something that is pretty obvious. The Big 12 won’t even be around in 5 years.
So, start the arguing from there. I guess if Texas wants to add some more teams to have even more sucklings, maybe. Bad history there, bad karma there. Don’t see it keeping together.
JSS
May 15th, 2012
3:22 pm
Eight pages on this idiocy… D-1 revenue sports = corruption run by corruption funded by ESPN and CBS!
5150 UOAD
May 15th, 2012
3:24 pm
LMFAO…….WHAT has happened since RICHT left? You are SO living in the PAST. After 2001 whne RICHT left NOT ONCE has FSU finished the year in the TOP 10. LMMFAO at Fear the Squeer.
5150 UOAD
May 15th, 2012
3:27 pm
JSS so true. ESPN pushes their SCHOOLS that make them money to be ranked and on TV to make ESPN and the SEC more money. Education and College has Nothing to do with FOOTBALL anymore.
5150 UOAD
May 15th, 2012
3:34 pm
Love this! Too bad Coach lost his job.
http://video.staged.com/dtglobal59/tennessee_football_coach_fired_for_making_obama_so
5150 UOAD
May 15th, 2012
3:36 pm
http://video.staged.com/dtglobal59/tennessee_football_coach_fired_for_making_obama_so
Kmac
May 15th, 2012
3:41 pm
@ 5150 UOAD
Your statements provide proof of the fool u are regarding FSU. But punk you too will bow down in the fall. The old argument that they have talent every year is not applicable now. They have beyond talent now u red neck and the depth to back it up. Just need to see how the O line does. I bet your team cant move the ball on them chump! What are u going to say when they win at least 11 games this year? Count on it. When your momma had u she created you she brought someone in this world that is not athletic at all. U probably never played a down in your life hillbilly.
Don Green
May 15th, 2012
3:44 pm
Dan:
The Big 12 has shrewedly negotiated the exact same TV deal split 10 ways as it had before split 12 ways when Missouri and Texas A&M left. Hence the Big 12 schools ae rolling in cash, they aren’t going anywhere. After the SEC, they have the 2nd highest payout. And ESPN is paying Texas $300 million over 20 years ($15 million a year) for the Longhorn Network which nobody carries, but they don’t care because they are guaranteed the money. Oklahoma is about to anounce a similar deal.
The Texas and Oklahoma economies are booming with oil and gas revenue and other economic development. They will be the big winners from a California economy going in the dumper. Demographics and population growth shifting to the Texas,and Oklahoma which means TV sets and diposable income in two states with extremely low tax rates.
SqueerFanHere
May 15th, 2012
3:51 pm
Don you are so right! The Big 12 is just such a GREAT conference and destination for FSU!
GTBob
May 15th, 2012
3:57 pm
Hence the Big 12 schools ae rolling in cash, they aren’t going anywhere. After the SEC, they have the 2nd highest payout.
Their contract hasn’t even been announced yet, and the SEC does not have the highest TV payout right now.
5150 UOAD
May 15th, 2012
3:58 pm
Kmac……I have heard it before from Fear the Sqeers. You mullet headed Sunday Christians in Tallahassee will crap your pants again this year.
5150 UOAD
May 15th, 2012
4:03 pm
Kmac you actually read you comment before you hit Submit Comment?
” When your momma had u she created you she brought someone in this world that is not athletic at all.”
WTF was that?
A Hillbilly is very different from a Redneck. I guess that FSU T-shirt and Cap doesn’t mean you have a Degree from The Florida Girls College.
Don Green
May 15th, 2012
4:08 pm
GTBob:
I realize all new contracts have not been announced yet. My point was in terms of all sports, all contracts as of the end of 2011, the SEC schools had the highest average revenue with the Big 12 being 2nd, and the Big 10 being 3rd, and the PAC being 4th.
The Big 12 contract was not reduced going forward even though the contracted by two schools, hence per school, each one is taking money that previously had gone to A&M and Missouri and splitting it. Plus they charged exit fees to Colorado, Nebraska, Texas A&M, and Missouri which gave some windfall profits. It gave them enough cash to help West Virginia with its buyout fees and they have the money to pay perspective new schools buyout fees as well, if they choose to do so.
I remain skeptical, still think the Big 12 will either pick up several teams and renogiate with 16 teams or so or decide its not worth it and just continue to split the gold mine 10 ways and leave it alone. Again, a lot depends on the criteria for the Final Four concept to replace the BCS and the easiest way to get two of your conference schools in that final sceario, which is a huge payout for a conference..
DawgNole
May 15th, 2012
4:10 pm
5150 UOAD
May 15th, 2012
12:22 pm
HAHAHAHHAH FSU can’t even hang with a weak Gator team.
____________________
Maybe you should ask the gators how we hung with them the past two years–since you obviously don’t know.
Dan
May 15th, 2012
4:14 pm
Where Texas is involved, there is nothing shared fairly, or squarely. If we all haven’t learned that over the last 20 years, shame on us. They can keep using smoke and mirrors, but everything is tilted their way, you can count on it.
As for rolling in cash, doesn’t matter. If 11 guys are rolling in 20 million, and one other member is rolling in 30, 40, 50 million (who knows), there are going to be unhappy campers amongst the other 11 members.
Oh, it might squelch their squabbling for a year or two, but, eventually, someone will say, WTF???
Dan
May 15th, 2012
4:15 pm
Always remember this……….
How do you Univ of Texas is lying????
Their lips are moving!!!
SqueerFanHere
May 15th, 2012
4:17 pm
Still, you can’t help but note the rich irony here. It was the ACC, after all, that started this Roseanne Barr-esque off-key game of musical chairs by rudely raiding the Big East of Miami, Virginia Tech and Boston College. The formation of a “Super Conference” flopped because Miami and Florida State stopped winning national titles in football. That’s right, FSU, the reason the ACC has become a conference you might consider leaving is your fault.
My advice: Get better in football and hope Miami does too. That would jack up the TV rights and makes more sense than dialing U-Haul or calling “at Kansas State” an important league game.
It never hurts to explore the possibility of significantly improving yourself financially, as long as Florida State realizes that it is a major reason the ACC’s TV package is less lucrative than the SEC, Big 12, etc. Let’s face it, if the Seminoles and the Miami Hurricanes were the dominant programs they once were, the ACC wouldn’t be in the predicament it is in.
The Ghost of Wyatt Sexton
May 15th, 2012
4:18 pm
I love hearing Semiholes run their mouths about past accomplishments under Booby Bowden. Yeah, you ran up great records against weak-sister ACC competition. I don’t care how good your program is, when you win your conference for 12 consecutive years, then your conference competition is no dang good. But let’s see how the ACC has done against the rest of the country in BCS games: 2-13, with only 1 at large bid. That’s a .133 winning percentage. That is hands down the worst record of any major conference. FSU made 6 of those BCS appearances, and posted a sterling record of 1-5. Nice. Stick to the Almost Collegiate Conference. Seriously.
The Big 12
May 15th, 2012
4:25 pm
I love the arrogance of FSU’s president comparing the academics of the ACC and the Big 12. Listen, FSU offers a circus course as part of its “academic” curriculum. Seriously. No thanks, Clown School. The Big 12 doesn’t need Circus U.
909
May 15th, 2012
4:25 pm
What FORBES magazine says about he new ACC contract:
LINK: http://www.forbes.com/sites/chrissmith/2012/05/09/did-acc-teams-get-ripped-off-with-new-espn-tv-contract/
Kmac
May 15th, 2012
4:28 pm
@ 5150 Uoad
All I am trying to convey is that you dont know anything about FSU. When they win 11 games you will be shocked for sure. Earlier my mind must have been on your mother when I was typing. Oops! my bad red neck. I want to hear you ignorant comments when Jimbo whens 11.
SqueerFanHere
May 15th, 2012
4:35 pm
Not many non-koolaid fans know much about FSU since they fell off the radar.
GooberNole
May 15th, 2012
4:39 pm
Who wants to add a program that is facing a $2.5 million athletic department budget deficit because it can’t sell enough football tickets? The Greece of college football!
SqueerFanHere
May 15th, 2012
4:45 pm
Teddy Greenstein, Chicago Tribune
Short answer: No. And, actually, if Florida State officials continue to chirp and try to spread misinformation about the ACC’s new media-rights deal with ESPN, I think the league should send the Seminoles to bed without dinner.
When will these schools learn that conference affiliation is about more than a money grab? OK, so the Big 12’s TV deal nets its schools perhaps $3 million a year more. And FSU trustees board chairman Andy Haggard thinks that parts of the new ACC deal favor the basketball-focused “North Carolina schools.”
The real issue seems to be mismanagement. Florida State has a $2.4 million budget shortfall in its athletic department. The solution is not to try to run to another conference, which would kill rivalries and force all of its athletes to take long, unnecessary flights.
The answer is to get your house in order.
Kmac
May 15th, 2012
4:46 pm
@ SqueerFanHere
I guarantee your mother knows about them
SqueerFanHere
May 15th, 2012
4:49 pm
Kmac
May 15th, 2012
4:46 pm
@ SqueerFanHere
“I guarantee your mother knows about them”
That’s why I am squeer!
GTBob
May 15th, 2012
4:53 pm
My point was in terms of all sports, all contracts as of the end of 2011, the SEC schools had the highest average revenue with the Big 12 being 2nd, and the Big 10 being 3rd, and the PAC being 4th.
If you are talking about just in 2011 then you might be right. None of us have access to the inner details of the contract so its hard to say for sure. If you are talking about all of the current TV contracts for each conference then you are wrong. The Big 10 is 1st, followed by the Pac 12, then the SEC, then the Big 12, then the ACC (old contract).
Don Green
May 15th, 2012
4:59 pm
Dan:
Tier I and Tier II rights are split evenly among all Big 12 teams. That was not the case before 2011. Thus Iowa State gets the same amount of revenue sharing as Texas. Its Tier III rights in which Big 12 schools are allowed to make as much as they can. Its called the free enterprise system and it is appealing to any school that isn’t afraid of its own shadow and thinks they can come up with a creative way to market themselves and make money. If you don’t like that concept, enjoy whatever socialistic, redistribute the wealth conference you want to enjoy.
Dan
May 15th, 2012
5:09 pm
@Don, I have no problem with it at all. I’m just tellin’ ya what’s happened in the past.
4 universities have run like hell from Texas. There will be more in the future. That’s all.
And you can tell me all about the contracts and whatever, when UT is in the picture, trust is just a
concept!! LOL
Dan
May 15th, 2012
5:10 pm
Now, you’ll tell me, why each university “really” ran, and how each university is “regretting” it.
LOL
Joe
May 15th, 2012
5:26 pm
Funny….you could give the same points for UGA except you could include a losing season in there
Don Green
May 15th, 2012
5:40 pm
Dan:
I don’t think anybody regrets leaving but nobody left in the Big 12 is crying any tears over any defections:
Colorado: poor sports program that was always more in line with the PAC, afraid that Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma and Oklahoma State were going to go there as a package without them. These guys could not compete.
Nebraska: better fit with the Big 10 and really struggled against the quicker, more athletic teams from the south division. Oklahoma and Texas basically whipped up on them on the field and in the board room.
Texas A&M: were looking for a way to energize their fan base and finally get out from under the shadow of Texas. Were getting killed in recruiting and believe the SEC card would be a refreshing one they could play to attract more recruits and they are probably right. Probably a smart move by them.
Missouri: they started the whole mess by first trying to get the Big10 to take them, they said no. Then the Texas and Oklahoma schools were going to go to the PAC without them. Looking for a stable situation. SEC will bring stability for them but they won’t be very competitive. Is really a basketball school.
It takes a special kind of team to want to compete with the recruiting, facilities, and money resources that Texas and Oklahoma bring to the table and the one’s that have really stepped up their programs like Texas Tech and Oklahoma State and Baylor have taken advantage while Texas had a couple of off years and their programs are in so much better shape as a result.
The Big 12 is a tough football conference. Not as tough as the SEC but still some pretty stout, under rated programs in the middle of a recruiting and population and economic development growth hot bed.
Bottom line, its like everything else in life, its about money, ego, and power. There is money to be made as both West Virginia and TCU ae going to find out. Both will be just as competitive if not moreso than A&M and Missouri.
VT Rules, FSU drools
May 16th, 2012
6:12 am
A $2.4M shortfall. If you wouldn’t pay coaches more than Fortune 500 CEO’s you wouldn’t find yourself in such a pickle.
VT Rules, FSU drools
May 16th, 2012
6:35 am
Having worked @ Callaway Gardens where the FSU circus performed, if I was a parent of a child who wanted a Circus degree, I’d ask for my money back.
VT Rules, FSU drools
May 16th, 2012
6:46 am
Money is the root of ALL evil. Households have to live with their means, why not Uncle Sam, Wall Street and yes, colleges. The mentality is that if we don’t buy (in our infalted ego) the best leaders our business will perish. These people who make the big, big dollars are the ruin of this country. The only jobs they ‘create’ are the souls that build their yachts and super-fast sports cares. JP Morgan looses $2B in an ill-advised scheme and the CEO still has his job. Unbelievable. If you are $2.4M in the hole, scurrying off to another conference will only increase your expenses, so where’s the benefit? WIth no results with your new coach, time to look for a renegade. I will gladly coach your team for $150,000 a year, no contract. When my team wins the BCS National championship, then you can pay me a $3M bonus.
Fsugrad
May 16th, 2012
9:05 am
Hey black red,
Let me remind you that it has only been recent years ( since the Hope scholarship) that UGA became a decent school, academically. Back in my day at FSU you could be dumb as a rock and still get into Georgia. Also, I graduated from FSU and I would like to compare bank accounts since I founded a now multi- million dollar company….yes, not everyone would agree with your warped perception of FSU’s academics.
Brian
May 16th, 2012
9:19 am
Bark about the SEC and Dawgs all you want but they put butts in seats whether they are winning or losing. Go find you a seat in Athens on any Saturday. Athens is the classic city and has an awesome campus and a loyal following. Bandwagon riders like in Tallahassee fall off and they are seeing that with non sellouts. Tradition of UGA and SEC tradition is what makes billions. Bring FSU to the SEC and watch Vandy pound on them!
LMFAO
May 16th, 2012
1:06 pm
Hey Brian yes we would be very scared of the SEC considering that when Spurrier was kicking your butts every year we were drilling them year after year. I guess you forgot:
SPURRIER 5-9-1
ALL TIME vs. FSU
Stumpknocker
May 16th, 2012
3:13 pm
……It”s been a while, but didn’t Fla St try to join the SEC ? There were several objecting votes of which Ga was one.
Benjamin
May 16th, 2012
3:34 pm
Contrary to the belief of many uninformed people, FSU/Miami’s lack of success hasn’t anything to do with the paltry TV deal (nor has the utter suck-ness of the rest of the conference minus VT). Bad timing is what made that bad deal. It’s unfortunate and the ACC has done everything they can to fix it (or at least made generally good moves in that direction). There is no way to fix it as long as ESPN holds our rights though and that is 15 years from ending. FSU simply cannot afford to lag behind Florida and the rest of the SEC for 15 years. Cannot. End of story. Unless the move to the Big-12 now they will be Pitt and Syracuse next decade. Struggling to even keep a coach even though they are a storied program (and how many of you even know how glorious Pittsburgh’s past is?). Forever relegated to has been status. Movement has nothing to do with a lack of respect for ACC programs. I’d love to remain in a conference with all of them not called Pitt, Syracuse (lack of history) or BC/Wake Forest (parasites that bring nothing to the table).
Go Jackets
May 16th, 2012
4:19 pm
One thing that would help the ACC is to go to real geographic divisions. The “ACC South” division could be UM, FSU, GT, Clemson, UNC, NC State, and Wake. That division would be at least as compelling as the current SEC East. The “ACC North” division could be Duke and all the schools from Virginia and up, including Syracuse and Pitt. I would also get rid of the ACC Championship game in Charlotte (talk about North Carolina bias – Wake is the only NC school that has ever even played in the game). Let’s just do the championship at the home stadium of the division winner with the better record – like the Pac 12 just did. The Oregon stadium looked out of control for that game.