FSU to Big 12? School has inflated idea of self-worth
Jimbo Fisher and Florida State might think brand is worth more than it really is. (AP photo)
There is only one thing that throws me about this Florida State-to-the-Big-12 rumor that has been growing and mutating over the past several days: Do school officials consider themselves some kind of super power? Because I believe time machines are not applicable here.
In the last six years, Florida State has played in the Emerald Bowl, the Music City Bowl, the Champs Sports Bowl, the Gator Bowl, the Chick-fil-A Bowl and the Champs Sports Bowl again.
They have played in one BCS bowl (Orange) in the last eight seasons (and lost). They haven’t won any BCS bowl game since the national title 12 years ago.
They haven’t won the ACC since 2005. They have played in only one ACC championship game in the last six seasons.
Before a school starts making financial demands and threatening to change conferences, shouldn’t it at least have to win the ACC Atlantic Division more frequently than Boston College?
This, of course, is all about money. The problem is that Florida State is living in its super power past. It’s frustrated that the ACC is not the SEC. Every conference is frustrated that it’s not the SEC. But, sorry, when a conference wins six straight national championships, the result is not going to be a level playing field, least of all when it comes to television revenue.
The ACC and ESPN recently announced a 15-year, $3.6 billion contract. That averages out to $17.1 million per school per year, which certainly seems good. But the fact that the deal is back-loaded — it will take nine years before schools see a $17.1 million take – has some members grumbling, particularly Florida State, whose athletic department is facing a $2.4 million shortfall.
Andy Haggard, an FSU trustee, mouthed off to Warchant.com. He complained that the ACC surrendered its third-their television rights to ESPN for football but not basketball, seeming evidence that the conference was favoring the North Carolina-based schools for basketball reasons.
There was a problem with that statement: It wasn’t true. The school had to issue an apology Saturday night. This goes back to my theory that many members of a school’s Board of Trustees are little more than more than big-money boosters who get to go to meetings and, it follows, talk too much.
Seminoles coach Jimbo Fisher also said, “…I think you always have to look out there to see what’s best for Florida State. If that [jumping to the Big 12] is what’s best for Florida State, then that’s what we need to do.”
This from a coach who last season finished behind Clemson and Wake Forest. I’m not sure what Fisher believes the Florida State brand is worth right now, but I doubt the school can do better than what it has right now. Leverage comes with winning something.
By Jeff Schultz
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454 comments Add your comment
Dave Pippin
May 14th, 2012
11:31 pm
FSU sells tickets and gets ratings when playing teams that have ever actually won something, ever. ACC ain’t (other than Mia) it. I spent this weekend with Jimbo, Gene Deckerhoff and many big money boosters in Orlando. Cant in conscience comment on PAC 12 move, but I will tell you that FSU IS back and that’s what the haters are scared of. Oh, by the way the GT fan; you ain’t won shit since 1990 and that was only half !
Who REALLY Cares?
May 14th, 2012
11:37 pm
Honestly, unless you’re an FSU alumni and/or fan or an ACC fan, what does it matter where the Seminoles play in terms of conference affiliation? If I don’t have a dog in the fight (and I don’t) then I don’t give a rip.
FSU president lays out pros/cons of Big 12 move – Palm Beach Post | Amazing News
May 14th, 2012
11:44 pm
[...] Atlanta Journal Constitution [...]
Delbert D.
May 14th, 2012
11:45 pm
Tod – I am aware of that ranking. FSU is one of the “best value schools” in the country,and a “Budget Ivy” school by Fiske Guide to Getting Into the Right College.. The USN&WR info is here:
http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges
The breakdown of areas is 22.5% Undergraduate Academic Reputation, 20% Retention, 20% Faculty Resources, 15% Student Selectivity, 10% Financial Resources, 7.5% Graduation Performance, and 5% Alumni Giving Rate. Some of areas have further breakdown by percentage.
So, 77.5% of the ranking is from objective data provided by the universities. The 22.5% subjective part is the Undergraduate Academic Reputation. The evaluations were provided by presidents, provosts and deans of admission for the universities, and 1787 public high school and 600 independent school counselors in the country.
There are other rankings by Forbes, which has different criteria entirely, and the Princeton Review, and others, including Playboy. The USN&WR ranking is widely accepted. There is a world ranking of universities (not by USN&WR), but I won’t get into that.
I’ve condensed a few pages of info into this post, so please look at it yourself for further depth.
By the way, I’ve attended eight colleges and universities. Long story about that, including war and peace
Delbert D.
May 14th, 2012
11:48 pm
Tod – I think a post got lost, so I’ll try to repeat it. I am aware of that ranking. FSU is one of the “best value schools” in the country,and a “Budget Ivy” school by Fiske Guide to Getting Into the Right College.. The USN&WR info is here:
colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges
The breakdown of areas is 22.5% Undergraduate Academic Reputation, 20% Retention, 20% Faculty Resources, 15% Student Selectivity, 10% Financial Resources, 7.5% Graduation Performance, and 5% Alumni Giving Rate. Some of areas have further breakdown by percentage.
So, 77.5% of the ranking is from objective data provided by the universities. The 22.5% subjective part is the Undergraduate Academic Reputation. The evaluations were provided by presidents, provosts and deans of admission for the universities, and 1787 public high school and 600 independent school counselors in the country.
There are other rankings by Forbes, which has different criteria entirely, and the Princeton Review, and others, including Playboy. The USN&WR ranking is widely accepted. There is a world ranking of universities (not by USN&WR), but I won’t get into that.
I’ve condensed a few pages of info into this post, so please look at it yourself for further depth.
Delbert D.
May 14th, 2012
11:49 pm
Tod – My attempted posts are getting blocked, so bear with me…
Delbert D.
May 14th, 2012
11:51 pm
Tod – I’ll try to repeat it. I am aware of that ranking. FSU is one of the “best value schools” in the country,and a “Budget Ivy” school by “Fiske Guide to Getting Into the Right College.” The USN&WR info is from their web site. The link is causing my posts to be blocked, I think.
The breakdown of areas is 22.5% Undergraduate Academic Reputation, 20% Retention, 20% Faculty Resources, 15% Student Selectivity, 10% Financial Resources, 7.5% Graduation Performance, and 5% Alumni Giving Rate. Some of areas have further breakdown by percentage.
So, 77.5% of the ranking is from objective data provided by the universities. The 22.5% subjective part is the Undergraduate Academic Reputation. The evaluations were provided by presidents, provosts and deans of admission for the universities, and 1787 public high school and 600 independent school counselors in the country.
There are other rankings by Forbes, which has different criteria entirely, and the Princeton Review, and others, including Playboy. The USN&WR ranking is widely accepted. There is a world ranking of universities (not by USN&WR), but I won’t get into that.
I’ve condensed a few pages of info into this post, so please look at it yourself for further depth.
Delbert D.
May 14th, 2012
11:56 pm
The AJC doesn’t like web links or percent signs, apparently.
Tod – I’ll try to repeat it. I am aware of that ranking. FSU is one of the “best value schools” in the country,and a “Budget Ivy” school by “Fiske Guide to Getting Into the Right College.” The USN&WR info is from their web site. The link is causing my posts to be blocked, I think.
The national university category in summary is schools that offer undergrad, masters and doctoral programs, and do research. The next category is regional universities and colleges. There is also a liberal arts category for schools that do not offer a wide slate of degree programs.
The breakdown of areas by percent is 22.5 Undergraduate Academic Reputation, 20 Retention, 20 Faculty Resources, 15 Student Selectivity, 10 Financial Resources, 7.5 Graduation Performance, and 5 Alumni Giving Rate. Some of areas have further breakdown by percentage.
So, 77.5 percent of the ranking is from objective data provided by the universities. The 22.5 subjective part is the Undergraduate Academic Reputation. The evaluations were provided by presidents, provosts and deans of admission for the universities, and 1787 public high school and 600 independent school counselors in the country.
There are other rankings by Forbes, which has different criteria entirely, and the Princeton Review, and others, including Playboy. The USN&WR ranking is widely accepted. There is a world ranking of universities (not by USN&WR), but I won’t get into that.
I’ve condensed a few pages of info into this post, so please look at it yourself for further depth.
Tod
May 14th, 2012
11:58 pm
Delbert I had the same problem I think it was because I said a version of shizit lol
Delbert D.
May 14th, 2012
11:58 pm
5 more attempts got blocked. Google “us news and world report” and click on Education, and dig down. The ranking methodology is 5 pages.
Delbert D.
May 15th, 2012
12:03 am
The blog meister robot doesn’t percent signs, web links, ampersands, and who knows what. I tried to condense several pages of data and info int 3 short paragraphs, but no go. Anyway, I am aware of FSU’s ranking as a value school, and also a “budget Ivy League” designation by one source. Whether this post goes through or not, I’m outta here for tonight!
Paul in NH
May 15th, 2012
12:17 am
Tod
May 14th, 2012
5:42 pm
criticism of FSU’s schedule is pretty baseless when you look at who we have scheduled out of conference over the years. #1 We didn’t drop Miami probably costing us at least 3 national titles. Oklahoma home and home 2010/2011. 7 games vs LSU the 1st 6 at LSU the last a home game they cancelled, ND, OSU, USC, Pitt (when they had Marino and Dorsett), Nebraska, etc…. I could go on. Yes our 1st game is usually a warm up but so are most ranked teams.
———-
Good to see someone with a background in ancient history on the blog.
FSU last played LSU over 20 years ago. Dan Marino left Pitt 30 years ago and Dorsett was 5 years before that.
Only time I hear about Fsu...
May 15th, 2012
12:24 am
is when they get some rediculous top 10 rank in the preseason college rankings. Then go tumbling down the rankings and never be heard of again until next year when some idiots think they are a top 10 team. And then the cycle repeats, over and over and over again…
Paul in NH
May 15th, 2012
12:25 am
“Under Bowden the Noles never had NCAA violations the coaches actually knew about.”
It’s those major academic fraud cases the coaches claimed they didn’t know about that were the problem
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/07/sports/ncaafootball/07ncaa.html?_r=2&scp=12&sq=bowden%20victories%20cheat&st=cse
Paul in NH
May 15th, 2012
12:28 am
Tod
May 14th, 2012
7:52 pm
UF 2009 Charleston Southern and Troy
2010 Miami (OH) and USF
2011 Fla Atlantic and UAB
Thats 3 straight years of no bodies
—–
9/6/2009 USF 17 FSU 7 (In Tallahassee)
Tod
May 15th, 2012
12:40 am
Paul good to meet someone with short term memory loss figure it out dude. My point was we have never been afraid to play anyone anytime anywhere moron. I guess OU two years in a row out of conference means nothing to you.
Paul in NH
May 15th, 2012
12:40 am
A comment from FSU’s President about the reasons for leaving the ACC
7. The faculty are adamantly opposed to joining a league that is academically weaker — and in fact, many of them resent the fact that a 2% ($2.4M) deficit in the athletics budget receives so much attention from concerned Seminoles, but the loss of 25% of the academic budget (105M) gets none when it is the most critical concern of this University in terms of its successful future.
The fact that we have a Trustee of a major American University (Andy Haggard) more concerned about a $2.4M short fall in the athletic budget than a $105M cut in the academic budget says it all about how corrosive sports programs can be to the mission of a University.
Paul in NH
May 15th, 2012
12:43 am
Wow Tod – nice insults “dude”.
Then again, what can I expect from someone who calls a team that beat FSU at Doak “no bodies”
Tod
May 15th, 2012
12:47 am
LMFAO Paul you posted a link to an article that only supports my position that the coaches had nothing to do with the violations you dumb arse. The biggest mistake the NCAA ever made was making these athletes live all over the city with no hope of the coaches being able to keep track of them. They are 18 year old kids that make mistakes at EVERY school athletes or not but I am sure you were a teenage angel.
Tod
May 15th, 2012
12:48 am
A bulls fan my sister went there
Tod
May 15th, 2012
12:54 am
And lastly before I go to bed I understand the shortfalls in funds academically and athletically but where would some of the schools be financially without successful athletic programs?
marmaduke from madison
May 15th, 2012
1:57 am
strawboyPaul
I'm Just Saying
May 15th, 2012
1:59 am
Wow Jeff that was amazing…what is next out of you??? Perhaps you will discover that fire is hot, or that water is clear. Do they really pay you for such depth of observation?
College Football Capsules: FSU president lays out pros, cons of Big 12 move – Brownsville Herald | Amazing News
May 15th, 2012
2:06 am
[...] Atlanta Journal Constitution [...]
Sloan
May 15th, 2012
6:41 am
This is a case of buyer’s remorse, albeit a few years later than you typically see. FSU could have and should have joined the SEC instead of the ACC way back when. Now that they would like to have a mulligan on that decision, I doubt seriously that UF would agree to it. So FSU talks about joining the Big 12 so they can play powerhouse programs like Kansas, Kansas State, and West VA instead of Clemson, Miami, and Virginia. Really?
Florida State president says Big 12 move not so simple – Tulsa World | Amazing News
May 15th, 2012
7:00 am
[...] Atlanta Journal Constitution [...]
How?
May 15th, 2012
7:14 am
Fsu and acc = weak
Taylor Wooten
May 15th, 2012
7:55 am
it would be a good move for fsu to go to the big 12.
enuff said
Rodster
May 15th, 2012
8:17 am
Well said Jeff. The Crimi-noles have not been relevant as a top football program since…well it’s hard to remember when.
Kaleb
May 15th, 2012
8:32 am
“School has inflated idea of self worth”. At first I thought this was about UGA. Then I remembered Jeff is paid to spin everything about UGA in a good way.
Bazooka Joe
May 15th, 2012
8:57 am
I dont want to hear any whining from FSU fans…. you had your chance – twice actually. In the early 90’s you chickened out – yes chickened out (call it like it is), and once aTm was coming over you could have had the slot that Mizzou took. So, you are stuck with the ACC…. you get what you deserve.
Gator Mike
May 15th, 2012
9:32 am
FSU had a chance to go to the SEC when the league expanded to 12 teams in the 90s. In fact, FSU would have been picked before Arky and SoCar. Bowden and FSU declined. Too bad, but so be it.
It will be interesting to see where this goes for the Noles because I believe they will not sit idle this time.
GADAWG99
May 15th, 2012
9:43 am
If FSU is all that and the bag of Doritos they think they are, then don’t go to the Big12 with only 10, why not step up and play with the big boys in the SEC? Oh wait, they aren’t all that after all, are they?
Alex
May 15th, 2012
9:48 am
Why dont yall try looking up the viewer ratings of fsu and the rest of the acc. Wonder what the acc would do losing 17% of its viewers?
Wet Willie...keep on smiling
May 15th, 2012
10:01 am
Paying 20 million to get out seems a bit much in this economy. The ACC needs all teams to take a step forward to increase the payout for all the teams. Getting to the NC game will sure help with recruiting but that will not fix the finance situation. The AD at FSU is on the clock if he can’t make more than he spends so that is the place to start. Rule #1 never think things can’t get worse!!!!! Rule #2…read rule #1.
The FSU Admin would be wise to shut the chatter and keep within the walls at FSU This trial ballon they sent crashed and burned for oh so many reasons.
georgiasouthernalum
May 15th, 2012
10:08 am
Georgia Tech and FSU should play every year like UGA and Fla. it would be a money game. Along with Clemson that way you can sell out. ND would be another school that would bring a lot of fans not Pitt or that other orange school.
Alphare
May 15th, 2012
10:11 am
$2.4mill is pocket money for a university. To leave for that reason is laughable. Improving your winning percentage and gaining more pride for fans would immediately fix that problem.
With Miami/FSU/VT/Clemsons/GT etc, ACC is a good football conference, it just hasn’t worked yet. I think coaching is the biggest problem with ACC now.
909
May 15th, 2012
10:40 am
I’ll state the glaringly obvious:
the ACC is NOW in trouble, and this new ESPN-TV deal is a disaster and proves bad news is coming for the ACC.
FACTS:
1. The $$$ is back-loaded into the latter part of a 15 year contract. No team in the ACC will see anywhere near $17 Million until the LAST 5 years of the contract. So, the ACC bascially got ZERO added dolalrs from adding Cuse & Pitt. Thats REALLY BAD.
2. The ACC kept the Tier 3 rights for B-Ball, but gave the Tier 3 rights for football to ESPN.
Thats great for “B-Ball first” schools like Duke & UNC, but a complete slap in the face to “football-first” schools like VT, FSU, Clemson, etc. This is why FSU’s Board of Trustees Andy Haggard exploded in the media over this issue in the new ACC contract and has gone on a tirade over the need for FSU to leave the ACC. And, he’s absolutely right on being pissed off.
3. The ACC rushed this deal with ESPN because it was the only and best deal the ACC could get…because the ACC front office (and ESPN) already know FSU, and 3 other schools are “unofficially” being courted by the BIG12, and are likely to leave the ACC. The ACC giving Tier 3 “football” rights to ESPN was the ACC giving the finger to FSU, and 3 other schools. FSU has already made it clear behind closed doors, that they will insist on Miami being included. So, this isnt an FSU-only scenario. Its a multi-team move, like the PAC12 offering 6 schools at once.
4. ACC commish, John Swofford, is completely in the pocket of UNC & Duke,
and this new contract makes it blatantly obvious for everyone to see.
5. The ACC didnt go to a $20 Million exit for no reason at all. Despite the “unanimous” vote for the exit fee, their is real bitterness brewing in the ACC, between the “football” & “b-ball” schools.
The ACC front office knows defections are coming.
5. The new upcoming Big12 contract is likely to generate $20 Million for just (10) teams !!!
Adding 6 more teams from the ACC and possibly ND would make a NEW BIG12 TV contract worth closer to $30 Million per team per year, which is what the SEC’s new contract with aTm and MIzzou is likely to see.
6. Anyone who looks at a map of the BIG12 and doesnt see an “eastward” expansion coming is just blind. Aside from WV & Iowa St, the BIG12 is states of Texas, OK, KS. The BIG 12 NEEDS an eastward expansion to match the East-West TV “footprint” of the SEC. The BIG12 got WV because the BIG12 needed a “foothold” in ACC country, and wanted to keep the SEC from getting WV. The BIG12 getting WV wasnt some randomn act of desperartion. It was a strategic first-step in an eastern expansion into ACC territory.
6. ESPN…DOES NOT…want a BIG12 expansion into ACC territory for one simple reason: $$$$.
If the BIG12 expands, ESPN or whoever elsee will have to pay LOTS & LOTS more dollars for the TV rights. Right now ESPN is getting the current ACC for dirt-cheap pricing. ESPN would rather pay $17 Million a year versus $30 Million per year. So, seeing ALL the ESPN pundits blasting ANY idea of the BIG12 getting FSU or more ACC teams is simply a self-serving PR effort.
All the chips will start to fall when the new BCS playoff format is solidified this Summer.
Then, the fireworks will begin.
Taxi Smith
May 15th, 2012
10:45 am
Would have preferred them in the SEC. Made more sense that Missouri!
Jim
May 15th, 2012
10:57 am
If they think the UNC tyranny is bad in the ACC they are going to love getting the Texas treatment. They would be better served to stay put and demand change in the ACC office makeup.
Louis
May 15th, 2012
11:04 am
Perhaps the following stats will indicate the value of FSU’s worth. Since joining the conference in 1991, FSU has won 12 conference football titles, 2 national football championships, 1 conference basketball championship, 5 conference baseball championships, 2 national outdoor national track & field championships and 21 consecutive appearances in the CWS I know that since 2005 FSU football floundered while BB was enjoying on the job retirement, but Jimbo has the program headed in the right direction. We need more income from our conference affiliation and we have got to look out for ourselves.
Dan
May 15th, 2012
11:08 am
@909, you should really keep up to date on things. 1. Almost all of the conferences are back loaded. 2. nothing changed about tier 3 rights that helped the Carolina schools.
These two facts have been out there for a day now.
Besides, what I’ve heard, is that with the new BCS playoff format or whatever you want to call it, Notre Dame will be forced to go to a conference, or they’ll be locked out of any playoff berth by the 4 or 5 big conferences. No special treatment for them this time.
Notre Dame and UCONN to the ACC to make 16.
Texas, TT, Okie, Okie St to the Big 10 to make 16.
Big 12 may not even be here in a couple years.
LogicalMX
May 15th, 2012
11:14 am
every fsu grad I know claims they “could have gone to Florida” if they wanted, which is a bunch of BS. fla state is second tier school, light years behind florida. Now, their athletic dept is broke and begging the state for money to pay their excessive expenses from all these high salaries and benefits.
they better keep quiet and stay in the ACC—that’s the best they can do.
UGA Insider
May 15th, 2012
11:15 am
The FSU brand is terrible at best! The school rarely sells out a home game, and is 2-4 vs The Wake. This school had a nice run but the best is behind it…. The ACC is ready for them to leave because their academics stink as well.
Jonesy
May 15th, 2012
11:15 am
It would completely destroy the baseball program which is one of the nation’s best.
GTBob
May 15th, 2012
11:19 am
The more I read from FSU fans, the more I am hoping the ACC just doesn’t waste time and just kicks them out of the conference. When your board of trustees is easily influenced by a West Virginia message board then you probably shouldn’t be in the ACC.
UGA Insider
May 15th, 2012
11:21 am
Kaleb, UGA is not running a $2.4 million debt as FSU. UGA is one of the largest, most profitable athletic department’s in the country. FSU is not on UGA’s level on anything at all. Academics or athletics. Also, Tallahassee sux azz!
Mike
May 15th, 2012
11:22 am
FSU is too big a pu**y to join a man’s conference, like the SEC. They say they want a football conference? Why didn’t they petition to join the SEC instead of A&M and Mo? Would have made way more geographic sense. FSU needs to join hands with Boise State and pray on baby conferences so they can whine to the big boys.
IL Jacket
May 15th, 2012
11:31 am
Let them go! They are a poor academic fit in the ACC and the conference academic rankings will rise after FSU leaves. The only real loss is their baseball team which is usually pretty good. Leonard Hamilton-time to parlay your success into a job where you will be appreciated, see Frank Haith.
Ray Goof's Hat
May 15th, 2012
11:39 am
You Noles should listen to your patriarch, Bobby Bowden. As an Alabama boy, he knew all about the SEC and he didn’t want any part of it. He told the AJC on Aug. 3, 1990, while the SEC was interested in adding FSU, “I like to win games, and I can’t think of a tougher place to do that than the SEC.” Listen to Bobby, and be content in the ACC. Stay in the shallow end where you belong.