FSU to Big 12? School has inflated idea of self-worth
Jimbo Fisher and Florida State might think brand is worth more than it really is. (AP photo)
There is only one thing that throws me about this Florida State-to-the-Big-12 rumor that has been growing and mutating over the past several days: Do school officials consider themselves some kind of super power? Because I believe time machines are not applicable here.
In the last six years, Florida State has played in the Emerald Bowl, the Music City Bowl, the Champs Sports Bowl, the Gator Bowl, the Chick-fil-A Bowl and the Champs Sports Bowl again.
They have played in one BCS bowl (Orange) in the last eight seasons (and lost). They haven’t won any BCS bowl game since the national title 12 years ago.
They haven’t won the ACC since 2005. They have played in only one ACC championship game in the last six seasons.
Before a school starts making financial demands and threatening to change conferences, shouldn’t it at least have to win the ACC Atlantic Division more frequently than Boston College?
This, of course, is all about money. The problem is that Florida State is living in its super power past. It’s frustrated that the ACC is not the SEC. Every conference is frustrated that it’s not the SEC. But, sorry, when a conference wins six straight national championships, the result is not going to be a level playing field, least of all when it comes to television revenue.
The ACC and ESPN recently announced a 15-year, $3.6 billion contract. That averages out to $17.1 million per school per year, which certainly seems good. But the fact that the deal is back-loaded — it will take nine years before schools see a $17.1 million take – has some members grumbling, particularly Florida State, whose athletic department is facing a $2.4 million shortfall.
Andy Haggard, an FSU trustee, mouthed off to Warchant.com. He complained that the ACC surrendered its third-their television rights to ESPN for football but not basketball, seeming evidence that the conference was favoring the North Carolina-based schools for basketball reasons.
There was a problem with that statement: It wasn’t true. The school had to issue an apology Saturday night. This goes back to my theory that many members of a school’s Board of Trustees are little more than more than big-money boosters who get to go to meetings and, it follows, talk too much.
Seminoles coach Jimbo Fisher also said, “…I think you always have to look out there to see what’s best for Florida State. If that [jumping to the Big 12] is what’s best for Florida State, then that’s what we need to do.”
This from a coach who last season finished behind Clemson and Wake Forest. I’m not sure what Fisher believes the Florida State brand is worth right now, but I doubt the school can do better than what it has right now. Leverage comes with winning something.
By Jeff Schultz
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454 comments Add your comment
GT
May 14th, 2012
3:39 pm
Talk is cheap today!
George Stein
May 14th, 2012
3:41 pm
This is from FSU’s own president. The reasons he presents for staying in the ACC are pretty compelling.
http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/7929292/statement-florida-state-president-eric-barron-acc-alignment
Eldrick
May 14th, 2012
3:41 pm
Paul Johnson’s high school offense doesn’t even work in the ACC. Fact.
Beast from the East
May 14th, 2012
3:52 pm
SEC,
Nah. I still have the memories of the previous 7 in a row. I suspect we’ll be back to our annual drubbing of the Semis this year. Have fun watching those epic battles against Duke, Wake, BC and the like!
Tod
May 14th, 2012
3:55 pm
There is one fact everyone is missing. FSU did not just elect to go to the ACC. We were an independent when the whole idea of the BCS came up surely to get left out of the NC game or any major bowl if we did not join a BCS Conference. The coaches, faculty, students, boosters and fans all expected twice now to be invited to the SEC and instead they invited teams they knew would not be competitive with Bama, LSU, UF, etc… It gets old to hear SEC fans say we couldn’t stand the heat in their kitchen when it would seem they are to chicken to take a chance on FSU.
Paddy
May 14th, 2012
3:57 pm
It must be the negotiator for the ACC in that tv deal. The ACC has better football numbers than the Big 12. One thing to remember is that 2/3 of the population lives East of the Mississippi. If they want to go let’em go. They are good again but not great! It may be a tough road for them out West!
George Stein
May 14th, 2012
3:57 pm
Uh, the SEC invited FSU, Tod.
The only real thing to take from your comment is that conference strength is cyclical.
Dan
May 14th, 2012
3:58 pm
Let em’ go. Their academics will fit right in with WVU and Texas Tech!! LOL
Tod
May 14th, 2012
3:59 pm
Please name me an SEC expansion school that has at least won the SEC in the last 20 years???
Sara
May 14th, 2012
4:03 pm
There is simply no ACC team that is a bigger television draw than FSU. Even when great, Clemson, Miami and VaTech just don’t even compare. Say what you want about FSU’s record over the last decade, but conference membership is mostly about the money and the fact is FSU has the biggest financial power of any team in the conference. Who could fault them for seeing if there’s a better deal to be had than the terrible one just negotiated by the ACC?
Besides, by your logic, why the hell did the SEC want Texas A&M?
SEC (see everyone cheats)
May 14th, 2012
4:03 pm
@Dan FSU is ranked higher academically than OU as well.
Columbus
May 14th, 2012
4:06 pm
I think Schultz has the wrong perspectiive on this one and FSU has plenty of leverage. I am a UGA fan, of course. Thats my 2 cents.
Dan
May 14th, 2012
4:07 pm
Ya, can’t wait to watch FSU vs. Kansas, FSU vs. Baylor, FSU vs. Iowa St.!! Ya, go ahead and go already!!
Tod
May 14th, 2012
4:08 pm
Gene the SEC has never “officially invited FSU to the SEC. Was the SEC interested yes but an official invitation has never been extended and in fact UF worked behind the scenes not wanting an instate school in the conference and has for years. UF even dropped UM from its schedule years ago.
ramblingbuzz
May 14th, 2012
4:10 pm
I’m…………totally confused!! Can we reach a consensus here?
February 1981
May 14th, 2012
4:11 pm
Can someone remind me again when was uga’s last national championship win? I think I wasn’t born yet.
Matt
May 14th, 2012
4:12 pm
Jeff, I usually enjoy your columns but your argument here is weak at best. It’s not performance that dictates this issue, it’s demand. While FSU’s program has been down, it still delivers a national audience (see ratings for their bowl games), and major state for ratings, and history. This is what made Texas A&M desirable to the SEC and Nebraska to the Big 10 despite similar performance issues.
Vulture
May 14th, 2012
4:12 pm
“fact is FSU has the biggest financial power of any team in the conference.”
Biggest financial power? ($2.4 million shortfall)
Who could fault them for seeing if there’s a better deal to be had than the terrible one just negotiated by the ACC?
The argument is if there is a better deal to be had.
Bama Mike
May 14th, 2012
4:14 pm
FSU has had quality recruiting classes under Jimbo. Recruiting has never been a weakness as he was one of Saban’s best of if not the best recruiter on his staff at LSU. Question is can he coach them up. He has had a couple of really ugly losses each season which puts doubt in the minds of Seminoles. FSU a lot like Bama fans 8-4 and 9-3 not going to cut it when the expectations are 10+
ramblingbuzz
May 14th, 2012
4:15 pm
Schultzie….Did you read the link from George Stein? Perhaps all this jabber is premature.
Mike
May 14th, 2012
4:19 pm
FSU owned Florida (and the SEC) for many years until Bowden decided to overstay his welcome and ruin what was without question one of the top 3 programs in the country. Only when FSU fell from grace did UF gain some prestige. Don’t believe me? Look back at history — when both programs fielded strong teams it was the Noles that typically came out on top. With Jimbo at the helm, the Noles are back to their winning ways against the Gators and will soon be back at the top of the national polls.
GTBob
May 14th, 2012
4:19 pm
Ya, can’t wait to watch FSU vs. Kansas, FSU vs. Baylor, FSU vs. Iowa St.!! Ya, go ahead and go already!!
Which is basically what it would be. All of the Texas teams are going to get lumped in together in a division and there is a decent chance Oklahoma and Oklahoma St get put into that division as well. So you are looking at the following:
Big 12 Texas Division: Texas, Texas Tech, TCU, Baylor, Oklahoma, Ok State
Big 12 Other Division: FSU, WVU, Iowa St, Kansas, Kansas St, Unnamed team (Maybe Louisville)
Doesn’t that sound like a fun division?
Sara
May 14th, 2012
4:19 pm
The departure of FSU would hurt the ACC financially more than the loss of any other team. That is the biggest financial power. Also, didn’t Texas have to negotiate some sort of revenue-sharing deal with the other Big XII schools to keep Oklahoma from bolting to the Pac-10? With that sort of $ in play and the potential for renegotiation of TV rights if the conference expands with new teams, a Big XII TV deal could be a lot sweeter than the bad deal the ACC just negotiated. But my personal hunch is that this is all a ploy to garner an SEC invitation. Publicly flirt with the Big XII, make your availability known, hopefully get the invitation they really want.
George Stein
May 14th, 2012
4:22 pm
If you really want a comprehensive history lesson, Tod, see this link.
http://jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/051301/col_6160687.html
Gary
May 14th, 2012
4:22 pm
You guys just dont get it. This is a story in the eyes of Jeff Schulltz only. There is no fan outcry here in Tallahassee for FSU to leave and no way do we want to be a part of the Big Joke 12. This story is based on 2 disgruntled guys talking about a tv deal that Jeff has turned into FSU bashing to justify his paycheck and give him something to write about and you guys something to blog about. There is no news here, trust me.
SEC (see everyone cheats)
May 14th, 2012
4:26 pm
@Gaytor from the East..don’t think you will be beating anyone good soon including FSU
Matt
May 14th, 2012
4:26 pm
FSU to the SEC will never happen. UF would be the biggest loser if FSU joins the SEC. Just like they chickened out of playing Miami (FL) on an annual basis back in the mid-80’s, UF will do whatever it takes to keep FSU out of the SEC.
Beast from the East
May 14th, 2012
4:27 pm
Mike,
When has FSU ever “owned” UF? I admit that Bowden did get the best of UF in the 90’s but was the record any different that what UF enjoyed over the Semis in the 2000’s?
1990-1999 FSU was 7-4-1 against UF
2000-2009 UF was 7-3 against FSU
Coach Dadgumit
May 14th, 2012
4:28 pm
If those kicks hadn’t gone “wide right” or was it “wide left” ? We’d be the Notre Dame of North FLorida dadgumit! Oh,oh,oh noooooooooo…
Kevin
May 14th, 2012
4:30 pm
Bobby Bowden didn’t want to have to play an SEc schedule. I believe his qoute in 1991 was something along the lines of “Why would I want to have to go to Tuscaloosa one week, athens the next, and then play somebody like Aunburn or LSU if you get in this champ. game they are talking about Dad gum we’re trying to win national titles here and that just makes it dang hard. We play Fla and miami every year as it is. That’s enough”
So, if the noles wouldn’t have been pu**ies back in the day they wouldn’t have this problem. They received an invite and turned it down before S.Car did. So suck it FSU.
Buckeye
May 14th, 2012
4:32 pm
Beast,
Urban is well, thank you. He, his wife and several Buckeyes attended a Special Olympic event this weekend and afterwards watched his son play in a doubleheader.
Mike
May 14th, 2012
4:33 pm
Beast, in the past 25 years FSU is 15-11 against the Gators (a significant but not overwhelming stat). However, when BOTH teams fielded ranked teams, the Noles won an even larger share of games.
Dan
May 14th, 2012
4:33 pm
@Gary, I hope you are right. I’m not afraid to admit it either, the ACC is better with FSU in it.
I hope they stay.
My comments were geared towards some of the ACC bashers, and to some of the ‘nole fans who
already have left. (in their minds).
Lots for FSU to consider, I admit. However, is 2 or 3 million a year, going to make that big of a difference, if you have an in house spending problem???
How about FSU going to the Big 12 and not being able to compete?? Everyone assumes. Playing Texas, Oklahoma, TT, Ok St., WVU and TCU every year. What if they start going 5-7 and 6-6, no bowl game??
So, Gary, to you, seem like you have your head on straight. I freely admit, I want FSU to stay in the ACC!!!
But, if they’re gonna go, go, we’ll survive.
Good day to you sir!
Buckeye
May 14th, 2012
4:35 pm
Must admit – I do enjoy watching SEC!SEC! football – particularly Vandy and the Gamecocks.
Must admit – I do NOT watch ACC football. I’d rather root fot whoever is playing the dogs.
Carl
May 14th, 2012
4:36 pm
Kevin,
I have no idea where you got that from. Bobby wanted in the SEC in the worst way. As for the SEC schedule, Bama only played 2 teams in the top 25 last year, they were 1-1 against one of those teams (LSU).
Tod
May 14th, 2012
4:41 pm
Gene you put me through all of that reading (didn’t learn anything new) just to confirm what I said before. An “official”
invitation was never extended, the SEC was interested and UF didn’t want us in the same conference as them.
Carl
May 14th, 2012
4:41 pm
Dan,
If it were only $2-3M I would be in agreement with you. But, the Big 12 contract with FSU in it will likely be $5 – 8M more than the ACC. On top of that FSU would retain Tier 3 rights, which could easily be over $10M per year. That could be $30 – $35M combined. With the current whacky conference alignment of the ACC travel expenses wouldn’t be much more in the Big 12, especially if GT, UM, and Clemson were to follow.
Tod
May 14th, 2012
4:41 pm
Sorry meant George
SawThat1nce
May 14th, 2012
4:42 pm
I don’t know why I read, or why I am commenting, about any of this, as I don’t care about any of this.
George Stein
May 14th, 2012
4:42 pm
I didn’t force you to do anything.
Who cares if it wasn’t official? FSU was being recruited.
Vulture
May 14th, 2012
4:43 pm
I could not imagine being an FSU fan and wanting to join the Big 12. Your own president has already stated that additional travel expenses would exceed 2.9 million. There not one benefit that I can think of in being a big 12 member.
George Stein
May 14th, 2012
4:44 pm
On top of that FSU would retain Tier 3 rights, which could easily be over $10M per year.
This is laughable.
George Stein
May 14th, 2012
4:45 pm
It’s the idea of something new, Vulture. That’s it.
If you analyze this rationally, it’s difficult to make a move make sense.
GTBob
May 14th, 2012
4:46 pm
With the current whacky conference alignment of the ACC travel expenses wouldn’t be much more in the Big 12, especially if GT, UM, and Clemson were to follow.
The FSU president said today that the estimated travel increases would be more then 2.9 million. Also, you need to learn more about Tier 3 rights if you think FSU would make 10 million more then in the ACC.
Tod
May 14th, 2012
4:49 pm
George I am not going to debate you. They were never officially or unofficially invited to the SEC. One presentation was made by the SEC (no invite) but the SEC was so arrogant they didn’t pursue FSU the way the ACC did. If I was wrong I would admit it but I guess you still want to stand by your original statement.
Tod
May 14th, 2012
4:51 pm
Personally I hope they stay in the ACC but for selfish reasons. I like to go to a few away games and joining the Big 12 would make that impossible
George Stein
May 14th, 2012
4:52 pm
I’m not debating here, Tod, because there’s nothing to debate. If FSU wanted to join the SEC 20 years ago, they could have. I’m not making any judgments on the merits of the decision. End of discussion.
Mr.Football
May 14th, 2012
4:52 pm
Jeff…Worry about Ga and Ga tech.Fsu has a better fan base and will win the national championship before this too teams (ga schools)…back to you jeff!
Beast from the East
May 14th, 2012
4:53 pm
Mike,
So 15-11 is “owning”? By your logic, UF currently “owns” FSU, as they’re 7-2 over the last 9 games. I would call it a pretty close rivalry over the past 20 years.
Labyrinth
May 14th, 2012
5:01 pm
William Satterwhite @ 2:14 p.m. “… and if they believe moving on to become the eastern outpost flunkies for Texas and Oklahoma is a solution, they’ll have another thing coming.”
It’s “another think coming”, William.