Hawks plagued with too many issues, from owners to Joe
Whether it's Larry Drew or another coach, Hawks have problems that can't easily be fixed.
In many ways, the Hawks are no different than other organizations. They end the season with a loss and for several weeks plot their makeover.
Maybe they need a new coach. Maybe they need a new general manager. Maybe a star player who can be the rose one minute and the thorns the next needs to be traded. Or maybe a dysfunctional ownership group comes to the realization, “This isn’t working. Let’s go back to selling cellphone towers and newsletters. We’re outta here.”
But in at least one way, the Hawks so often are different from other organizations: No matter what decisions we logically think they can make this summer, it’s difficult not to come away with the belief that they’re still going to be in trouble when next season opens.
Most franchises give you hope. The Hawks give you hangovers.
The Braves missed the playoffs and did little this past winter to improve themselves, but one could reasonably believe they wouldn’t be subjected to a similar string of injuries and improbable slumps again. The Falcons were one-and-drummed in the playoffs again, but they have since filled two needs with a Pro Bowl cornerback and two offensive linemen in the draft. They are sufficient teases.
The Hawks just finished a season that was part impressive: 40-26, mostly without Al Horford. Also part depressingly reaffirming: They won their playoff opener against Boston, only to inexcusably lay an egg at home in Game 2 when Rajon Rondo was suspended, look catatonic in Game 4 and ultimately had too many brain lapses against a veteran team, losing the series.
The spin from franchise officials will be: “Next year, we’ll be healthy. Next year will be different.” Really?
The Atlanta Spirit tried to sell the team, had a deal fall through, then tried to convince everybody they were suddenly reborn and committed. Even if we bought that as truth (work with me here), the owners couldn’t make it through the playoffs without another goof. Michael Gearon Jr. called out Kevin Garnett and referees before a potential elimination game in Boston, and then blamed the Journal-Constitution for reporting the comments. Garnett’s response included 28 points, 14 rebounds, five blocks and this verbal knockout: “I want to say thank you to the [Hawks] owner for giving me some extra gas. My only advice to him is next time he opens his mouth, actually know what he’s talking about — X’s and O’s versus checkbooks and bottom lines.”
Success and failure in every business always starts at the top, so an ownership change could only help. But the Hawks aren’t an enticing product. Think of them as a house with several cracks in the foundation. Most potential buyers say, “No thanks. I’ll bid on the place down the street.”
General manager Rick Sund doesn’t love it here. If we needed reminding of that, his contract is up but he doesn’t know if he wants to come back. If Sund (also among the lowest paid) leaves, it’s difficult imagining that an established GM would want this job because of the ownership’s reputation and the inherited roster issues.
Coach Larry Drew, one of the lowest-paid coaches in the NBA, is waiting to see if the team brings him back. The guess here is that the option in his contract will be picked up, but he won’t get an extension. It’s the cheapest, safest route for ownership.
The core of this roster never has won more than one round of playoffs and, regardless of who the owner, general manager and coach are next season, there are two major issues: Joe Johnson and Josh Smith.
Johnson reaffirmed in the playoffs that $20 million a year doesn’t buy heart or courage. His playoff shooting percentage: 37 percent, a career-low as a starter. He had games of 11, 9 and 15. He complained about not getting enough touches and double-teams. Rondo, Garnett and Paul Pierce stepped up at key moments for Boston. Stars do that. Johnson disappears.
Smith was the team’s best player this season. He helped bring the Hawks back late in Game 6. But when the Hawks trailed by a point with 10 seconds left and a play set up for Johnson broke down, Smith forced a 20-foot jumper and we slapped our foreheads again.
Where is the hope?
Drew was asked about his future Friday. But he looked like a man who cared more about his next two aspirin.
“It’s not something right now I’m going to worry about,” he said. “It’s been a long season. I just want to take a step back.”
If he returns, the view may not get better. This isn’t a simple makeover.
By Jeff Schultz
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224 comments Add your comment
Drex
May 11th, 2012
4:09 pm
The hawks are consistent at one thing… making misery for their fans!
Drex
May 11th, 2012
4:09 pm
First!
UGABugKiller
May 11th, 2012
4:09 pm
The wrong team died!
mike
May 11th, 2012
4:11 pm
This squad with a healthy Al and Zaza will be a team to reckon with next year.
Also, need to get rid of dead weight (Collins, Dampier, Stackhouse, Vlad). I liked what I saw out of Ivan Johnson, Pargo, and Willie Green.
Re sign Josh, try to move Marvin and replace Kirk with a cheaper backup and we are all good.
Kelly
May 11th, 2012
4:13 pm
*sigh* Yep.
Jimmy The Geek
May 11th, 2012
4:14 pm
But if you ask some of these clowns, they’ll tell you the Hawks are the best franchise in town weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
No.
Harry Hawk
May 11th, 2012
4:16 pm
I don’t expect anything more from these Hawks. As constituted, this group is spent.
B
May 11th, 2012
4:22 pm
the problem is JOkE johnson. the guy is not clutch at all in big games. He’s paid twice as much as he’s worth. Where was he the past two game? Missing shots and getting them blocked. Smith is a joke too. Nice shot at the end. Don’t drive and get fouled. Throw up a shot that he makes 1/4 of the time. As for the braves, they will choke again in sept or the playoffs if they sneak in. And the falcons will lose in the playoffs too. That’s if they can even get in. They still aren’t better than the saints.
Jtb
May 11th, 2012
4:22 pm
Jeff,
Can you think of a similar situation where a successful team (5 straight playoff appearances) where both the fans and the players dislike each other? I’m getting the player angle froms Joes comments about it’ll be loud at Phillips but who knows which team will be cheered and Al raving about the Celtics home court advantage.
scott
May 11th, 2012
4:24 pm
Please, blow it up and start over. It’s the same old crap as last year; Josh continues to whine and hoists up stupid shots, JJ continues to prove he is the worst max-salary player in NBA history (you can prove it with his stats, no doubt) and the ownership continues to do one stupid thing after another–way to go, Gearson!! I would rather have NO basketball than watch this version of NBA basketball. It’s embarassing.
Just The Facts
May 11th, 2012
4:28 pm
The reality is Atlanta sports teams are built for REGULAR SEASON SUCCESS NOT POST SEASON SUCCESS. That is why we supposedly stink as fans. Maybe it’s the bill of goods we get sold on a regular basis. One of our franchises or all should be re-named as The Atlanta Tease. Think about it…we never finish strong. The ONE Championship we have was one by a 1-0 score which we can thank the Braves for.
Horsetoothedjackass
May 11th, 2012
4:34 pm
Two words: Joe Johnson. No one player has screwed up sports in a town like him. He caused the ownership rift that was a distracting soap opera for far too many years. You can blame the Thrashers being sold and relocated to Winnipeg on him as well since that also traces back to the trade that landed him here in the first place. Maybe if the Hawks didn’t re-sign him, they would have the money to fix the broken stuff inside of Philips Arena……
BubbaDaBaller
May 11th, 2012
4:37 pm
It isn’t over until we say its over! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Nooooooooo! When the going gets tough…the tough get going…Whose with me?????
Sage of Bluesland
May 11th, 2012
4:37 pm
Indeed, it ALL starts at the top. With this inept and uncaring ownership, I’m amazed there are any fans at Phillips. If they actually believe this organization truly cares about winning titles, then they are poor, misguided, and delusional sheep. Nothing more.
Stop subsidizing this utter incompetence and gain some self-respect back, for once.
Not another dollar into their undeserving pockets. Wake up, Atlanta. The only–and I mean only–way this group will listen is if you cut their funds.
(and if they decide to move, then all the better; get this wretched product out of town)
Deja Vu
May 11th, 2012
4:38 pm
The coaching situation can be summed up in one sequence from Game 5. With 10 seconds left we let our most inept passer take the ball inbounds against pressure. There was NO second guessing here. As soon as I saw it I looked at the guy next to me (I was at Phillips) and said…this is a HORRIBLE idea. He agreed. And as day follows night…turnover. Josh Smith is a turnover waiting to happen whenever he has the ball with time to think. Because he DOESN’T think. Truth hurts. This man needs to be dealt and he needs to be dealt NOW. And the coach who puts him in that situation? He needs to go.
Contract News May 11, 2012 — Contract Future
May 11th, 2012
4:38 pm
[...] contracts. Nine players are free agents, leaving only the …Sources: Blazers eye Hawks GMESPNHawks plagued with too many issues, from owners to JoeAtlanta Journal Constitution [...]
Honestly
May 11th, 2012
4:38 pm
The reward for supporting the Hawks is death by a thousand cuts. Everybody is good-the GM, coach, and players, but no one is very good. Games are lost on lousy basketball plays, in clutch situations, where a very good coach or player would simply take over and will the team to victory. Look at last night’s finsih as Exhibit A. It’s unimaginable that a playoff caliber team can be so lousy at such a critical time – over and over again while the Celtics try to lose the game. If the team members wonder why fans don’t clamor over them like they think players in other cities enjoy, the fact is they aren’t competing well for entertainment dollars. Plus, those hypothetical fans in those hypothetical cities might just demand more from them, other than regular season wins over those terrible Eastern Conference cellar dwellers.
Jesse
May 11th, 2012
4:44 pm
Have to trade Josh. It’ll be awful when he’s 29 and an All Star all the time, but if they can get a player and a high draft pick they need to do it. There needs to be more heart on this team, and more basketball intelligence.
PMC
May 11th, 2012
4:48 pm
nice article jeff. Essentially the teams in this city have rendered the regular season completely meningless.
The Hawks give you 10 minutes of excitement and 40 years of misery.
There is really no amount that they could cut tickets and make it worth the trip to Phillips to see them rehash this thing yet again another time.
At this point…. selling them to Winnepeg might be the best option.
PMC
May 11th, 2012
4:50 pm
This is the result of absolutely horrific ownership and management from years ago.
This is Billy Knights Opus. His baby.
Mike Clark
May 11th, 2012
4:51 pm
Steve Belken is smarter than the Atlanta Spirit! The Hawks are too cheap and when they spend; boy do they screw it up. Use the available amnesty move and go rid of Joe Johnson. Let him be some one else’s headache. He is way overpaid. Cut loose Marvin Williams and try to rebuild around Al Hordord and Josh Smith. Maybe see if you can fleece the Magic with a trade for Dwight Howard, that includes Joe Johnson.
PMC
May 11th, 2012
4:52 pm
The Falcons season begins in January. The jury is out until then.
gunga din
May 11th, 2012
4:55 pm
just another bunch of whiny, overpaid, tattooed thugs. could have done just as good with half the salary payout.
P
May 11th, 2012
4:57 pm
Joe Johnson and those owners needs to go, and yes Josh does put up alot of bad shots! but who doesnt? without him u lose 20 games off your record and u dont make the playoffs we lose Joe Johnson and we may add 5 games to our win total its as simple as that, just take the hit dump Joe Johnson and his contract and sign a cheaper guards that gives u better results bc he’s not worth it
Honestly
May 11th, 2012
5:03 pm
It’s hard to place blame and get mad at anyone, since everyone contributes in their own ways. It takes cash to run a team, which the owners don’t appear to have. It takes fans apparently willing to spend their money in amounts in excess of that being presently spent. It takes intestinal fortitude to decline to offer a huge contract to a good role player but not a franchise player because that contract is going to dictate how the franchise fares over the next several years. All in all, the outlook isn’t pretty. So much potential wasted, that’s the heartbreaker.
Lamar
May 11th, 2012
5:05 pm
Enter your comments here
Lamar
May 11th, 2012
5:06 pm
The Smith family got out and so should the Atlanta Sprit owners.
Lowcountry Bulldawg
May 11th, 2012
5:07 pm
Ownership should have made the tough call and not have resigned JJ. We all new it then and it has been reaffirmed since. It was a publicity move that was to “show” the fanbase they care about winning. Well it has backfired in a way that will hamstring the franchise for a decade. Nice job.
jgsbirds
May 11th, 2012
5:10 pm
i really liked this years team a lot. i did expect them to beat the celtics this series. they are the better team. they just aren’t the smarter team. when push came to shove the celtics were allowed to play that ‘tenacious’ defense without having too many fouls called while the hawks continued to play pretty good defense and when they tried to ‘playoff’ up the defense–the officials gave the celtics the close calls.
i never dreamed the hawks would get any calls in this series any way–but for kevin garnett picking up his first foul midway through the first qtr is a joke! he’s a great defender no doubt–but there’s no freaking way he’s that physical and only has one foul during the entire game. he fouled teague twice on drives to the basket not to mention the stuff he was allowed to get away with on dampier, josh and horford.
no doubt the foul at the end of the game on horford was flagrant…especially after they had already called one on teague vs rondo that was debatable. and i haven’t even mentioned the in bounds play that the foul occurred before the ball was thrown in. espn didn’t even mention that either but after rondo was ejected espn actually took the time to go back and show a previous questionable out of bounds play that the hawks were awarded possession. god forbid the hawks actually get a call at home–it boils down to the powers that be really don’t want atlanta in it.
this team was good enough to get into the ecf..unfortunately it won’t be this year–hopefully the breaks will go our way in the future…no matter what though–i’ll still be rooting for them win or lose and all of the “so -called” celtic fans will probably be rooting for someone else by that time.
go hawks!
TrueHawkFan
May 11th, 2012
5:11 pm
Enough.
The truth is that Josh Smith is our best option. He causes turnovers and whines a lot, but he makes good things happen. Joe Johnson is a top tier second option; however, due to his contract, he cannot be traded. Marvin is a top 3 pick that comes off the bench. Al Horford is undersized for what the Hawks are trying to do. Larry Drew did not know to argue that the Hawks should have gotten two shots when the Celts fouled while we were inbounding (an experienced coach would have picked that up quickly and pressed the issue).
To make an impact for the future, the following players should be traded to win NOW. M. Williams, Stackhouse, Dampier, Hingrich, and ZaZa should go. Get younger developing players. Build around J. Smith, Horford, McGrady, and J. Johnson (only because he is untradeable).
Don’t give up on the Hawks yet. They were only 1 game and 10 seconds from going to the Eastern Conference Finals (we would have swept the 76ers).
THF (TrueHawksFan).
Bravesfan79
May 11th, 2012
5:12 pm
Ive supported Josh the whole season, but that shot last night was just pathetic! I dont want to “blow up” the team, i say we trade Josh Smith for a player like Chandler. Someone whos intense on defense, and has enough basketball IQ not to throw up stupid shots with the season on the line!
shawn
May 11th, 2012
5:15 pm
I remember that Pete Babcock, the Hawks Gm back in 90’s traded the whole team and he said: ” we need to take it to next level and get through second round of playoff and that is why we are going with young players to rebuild”…. My friends, it was 13 years ago and Hawks are still rebuilding..This ownership is a joke..Please leave ATL and bring someone like Arther Blank who knows how to win….
Trojan
May 11th, 2012
5:17 pm
JJ is literally paid more than twice what he is owed.
beone
May 11th, 2012
5:17 pm
There is no hope unless there are changes. Change will at least create hope.
KBP
May 11th, 2012
5:18 pm
Joe is not the caliber of player that Kobe is, that D Wade is, but name another 2 guard that is clearly better. Rip Hamilton? Danilo Gallinari? Ray Allen? His contract is the ASG’s fault. He should not have to apologize for not being an all-time great regardless of what his contract is. ASG chose to pay him as if he is Batman but he is more Robin. Let’s stop blaming him for ASG’s decision. Jeff, to question a man’s heart is a serious charge. Would you question his heart if he was a 12 million per year player?
If Marvin had been drafted late in the first round, no one would be killing him the way he gets killed now. His draft position set an expectation that his skill does not match. Not his fault, again see ASG. This was a good year for a team that is flawed considerably. With Chris Kaman and a coach that can use a real center, this is a much better team. Teague, Joe, Josh, Al, Kaman. Then Marvin, Zsa Zsa, Ivan and fill in the rest. Amnesty Joe? Ok, then trade Josh and Marvin and start over with Al and Teague. I’d rather try to get Kaman compete from there.
Bravesfan79
May 11th, 2012
5:19 pm
If we dont trade Josh, then what we need is a coach like Pat Riley who will GET IN HIS AZZ when he takes stupid shots! Ive liked Drew most of the season as coach, but the last few games were pathetic coaching. Why have your lowest basketball IQ player making the inbounds pass with the game on the line in game 5? Why have your worst free throw shooter (smith) in the game when you know your gonna get fouled (game 5)?
As i learned from working the streets of atlanta and neworleans for almost 10 years, any grown man who goes by “smoove, smooth, dbone, tbone, wishbone… etc.. ” is usually on the edge of mental retardation when it comes to IQ points, and is likely to make poor choices.
Trojan
May 11th, 2012
5:21 pm
By signing JJ to the max only guaranteed that the Hawks at best would be average and at worse, a declining team that is stapped by salary cap, whose star player is a person who boggs down every offensive possession. ISO Joe does not work.
Ben
May 11th, 2012
5:21 pm
We need to stop blaming Joe for his max contract, any of us would have taken the money, even if you knew you wasn’t worth it. No Joe is not a superstar, but I think to much blame is put on him. Head Coach is your problem, no heart from the head coach. Larry Drew is not a get-in-your face coach, like Doc Rivers. These Hawks team needs a real coach that really knows how to coach player and not just a team. Second, the owners could and have never care. We have when into three straight seasons needing a center, haven’t gotten one yet. Well there are a couple our there in FA this year. I give you two Roy Hibbet and Chris Kaman. Get us a head coach Hubie Brown and a center. Season Ticket holder 25 years
Honestly
May 11th, 2012
5:22 pm
Low-C, publicity is exactly what they were looking for. Patronizing the fan base is the reality. The Braves finally blossomed when two people, Bobby Cox and John Schuerholz, started honestly approaching the business of building a professional sports franchise. Unfortunately, we’re backsliding with the present GM and feel-gooders, but I digress. Sometimes the unpopular move is the right move, and it pays dividends on and off the court or field. We are fed too much BS about the current players and team, when it is rather obvious that those espousing the BS are either lying or incompetent. The Hawks do not have the franchise player around whom the team is built. And, they make up for it by refusing to play team basketball, which would only enhance their individual performances. The product looks like a rudderless ship.
Neki
May 11th, 2012
5:42 pm
First of all, to the people who is saying that Hawks needs to be sold or moved to another city, that wont happen because if that does, Atlanta would be looked down even more then before.
Jeff, you are actually right about that you wrote and its gets worst because there is teams in the East that can still bring in ppl and have cap space (imagine Pacers with Dragic as PG), you still have Bulls and Heat, Knicks is going to get Lin back and they are going to be better as well. Then you got the C’s ,Magic, 76ers and even a team like the Bucks can sneak in next year.
ASG needs to leave this organization and sell to somebody that care about this team and about winning. Without that, we will always be like this.
Jay Dubu
May 11th, 2012
5:54 pm
Joe Johnson is not the reason the Hawks “Are who we thought they were!”, it’s the Ownership and the GM (Front Office). They have made repeatedly bad decisions for the 6+ years in everything from who to draft to who to hire as coach.
How many of us would tell our employer, “No, don’t pay me the maximum amount of money that you can because I’m not worth it”, so don’t blame Joe Johnson for the mistakes of the Suits. It’s the job of the Suits to make decisions that will drive the organization in the right direction. Not only did they draft Marvin Williams 2 rounds too early (that’s right, 2 rounds…that means he should have been a college free agent), but they went and signed him to a nice big contract after the initial one expired.
It’s like buying a million dollar race house and asking me, a non jockey, to ride it in the Kentucky Derby. The Hawks house needs to be cleaned starting at the top.
mountain_jim
May 11th, 2012
6:01 pm
Well I said before the last game that MC using Dled’s recording to write that article was going to fire up Garnett, and it did big-time.
So in my opinion the AJC does share the blame in spreading that news-worthy ‘motivation material’ from idiot Gearon’s mouth.
A beat-writer who actually liked the team and wanted to keep working for another week or so could have sat on that news until after the elimination game. imho.
I stated in the blog reporting those comments that it was going to make winning the game more difficult, and Garnett proved that accurate.
Ref’s still cheated the Hawks in those last 30 seconds – repeatedly.
trade smith
May 11th, 2012
6:01 pm
I have been a josh smith supporter the whole time and i still like him but we cant take the next step with him. He is not going to change. I dont even know if this is possible or not but Greg Monroe would be nice. Dont want Gasol because he is aging. Demarcus cousins would be nice too but i know it isnt possible because of salary. Gotta mention Howard just because he wants to leave orlando. Bottom line is as much as i hate to say it, smith needs to go.
R. Stroz
May 11th, 2012
6:01 pm
Nothing will get better until the ASG is gone….forever…every lousy one of them….Levenson…Gearon Jr…..Seydel. The fans of Atlanta understand this loud and clear.
doc
May 11th, 2012
6:02 pm
jeff ypi ate kidding right? gearon blamed the press for his awkward comments at a very open social functin? it isnt like you set up hidden mics in their office or homes.
i feel sorry for anyone having to deal with these guys fans and me included as a season ticket holder. it is time to reassess the future is right.
KBP
May 11th, 2012
6:05 pm
Ben, Is Hibbert an unrestricted FA? With him we could challenge the Heat and Bulls and anyone else in the East. It’s going to take a team with a low post game to beat Miami 4 out of 7 games. Hibbert or Caman would give us that chance.
Eb
May 11th, 2012
6:07 pm
Nothing will change until ASG sells team. Until then, expect more idiotic decisions and sideways results.
You all are idiots
May 11th, 2012
6:14 pm
So everyone on this blog is telling me that you would rather blow up the team, and have a chance to make a championship run in maybe 5 years, rather than stick with our building blocks for 2-3 more years and make the playoffs? The only team I can remember who successfully “rebuilt” their franchise from the ground up was the Sonics, who are now the Thunder. They drafted great, got real lucky, and have a good chance at making the championship this year. They operated perfectly as a rebuilding franchise, but got real lucky and I don’t see the luck going Atlanta’s way. As a fan, I would rather hope every year in our guys and making a push to the conference finals than sell the farm and start over. I have been there are Steve Smith was gone, and Isiah Rider arrived. A terrible team is no fun to cheer for, no matter what the future holds.
Thought Jeff?
Manny
May 11th, 2012
6:19 pm
I don’t know what game many of you saw, but if you think that Josh Smith is the problem with this team, you need your head examined. I love the whole lines like “Josh is a great defender and rebounder. Oh, and he can get in the lane and drive, but he’s immature.” What?! I mean, if you got someone that is a good rebounder and defender, plus an offensive threat; then that’s a good player. You don’t trade that guy , just because he tried a bad shot in the playoffs, silly!
Here’s what works on the Hawks team: Jeff Teague works. All Horford works. Josh Smith works. And your bench players in Willie Green, Zaza and Pargo works.
Everyone else can kick rocks. Joe Johnson melted completely down this series. He has absolutely no heart. He has the ability to knock your lights out, but he didn’t want to compete in a battle of wills. It’s like he’ll rather lose than look bad.
Now about Marvin. Marvin showed a lot this series. I think he’s pretty good. He’s trade bait. If we can somehow package him like “Take Joe Johnson’s big contract and get a Forward for Free.” Joe Johnson needs to go. We need a real superstar. I mean, we honestly have no business getting beat by the tired, old Celtics.
Felix
May 11th, 2012
6:30 pm
It’s hopeless when you have bad ownership, a so so coach, and so many clueless players.
Has Marvin Williams been traded yet?
bgtodd01
May 11th, 2012
6:41 pm
Use amnesty clause on Joe’s contract to get out from under it with no salary cap implications and no luxury tax implications. He’ll still get paid, but if he signs elsewhere, the amount he gets from another team will subtract from what the Hawks owe him. That would free up $20+ million under the cap. Trade Josh for high draft picks if you can (i.e. 10 ten pick and early 2nd round pick). Trade Marvin if you can, with his ability he should be driving the lane constantly to either score or get fouled. With draft picks or in the trades, pick up a true big 7+ foot center and move Al to the PF spot.
bgtodd01
May 11th, 2012
6:43 pm
meant trade Josh for top ten pick and early 2nd round
D-Man
May 11th, 2012
6:44 pm
“The spin from franchise officials will be: “Next year, we’ll be healthy. Next year will be different.” Really?”
and this is what the national media (and some local) seem to leave out when discussing the fans here in Atlanta. If you were going to have a bad and disjointed group of fans, it makes sense that you’d find them near teams like the ones that play here. Disappointment teasers every single year. Why should we be stupid and give our all support for a team that has ALWAYS been like this. It’s been 30 years for me, nearly my whole life and this is all I’ve seen? No history, no heart, embarrassing exit after exit. Bad ownership here, bad GM there, paid wrong guy, traded wrong guy here, drafted ANOTHER forward really here, drafted the wrong forward there, from the signing Isaiah Rider, to overpaying Jon Koncak, to trading Dominique Wilkins for (and I still can’t believe this one) for freaking Danny @#%$&*$%& Manning are our history. That’s it, that’s all so excuse me Stephen A. or Rob Parkwood or what ever your names are if I don’t feel like jumping up and down yelling we’re #1 right now…
Waffle House or Bust
May 11th, 2012
6:52 pm
I’m so sick of excuses. We will be healthy next year has nothing to do with Drew having no control over Josh Smith or Joe Johnson is not a team leader like he is paid to be. Change sometimes is good for everyone involved. Trade Smith because dude is going to walk after 2013 anyway. Get a coach in here that has no connection to Hawks system (should have done that when Woody was let go). Maybe we can win with 3 out of 5 of these starters and a coach that makes them buy into his style. Say goodbye to Josh and Marvin. Hate that we are stuck paying all that money to Johnson when he would be a number two guy at best on any other team.
The joys of being a Hawks fan.
C
May 11th, 2012
6:54 pm
Until the Atlanta “Spirit” sells. I won’t even watch a game on TV. Crooks.
Sam
May 11th, 2012
6:56 pm
You guys can’t fool me! C’mon Joe, Josh, and Drew – stop trying to post on here under made-up user names. This team sucks and needs to be blown up. Horford is our only player who plays with ANY heart. Marvin showed up for ONE game all season. Josh doesn’t seem INTERESTED IN getting any better at anything other than jump shots. Joe, no one is BUYING that you are a star player. Drew, you may one day be a good coach, but not for THIS TEAM.
It all boils down to – ANYONE INTERESTED IN BUYING THIS TEAM??
Sam
May 11th, 2012
6:57 pm
anyone? anyone?
Erik
May 11th, 2012
7:03 pm
Manny,
You said it! J-Smoove and Al and Teague are what they should build the team around. Josh is going to take his WTF shots every now and then and sometimes they do go in. He needs a coach that can mold him into an even better player. He’s best in the open floor, driving, or on the block depending on who’s behind him. That’s his game…if a GREAT coach would teach him that, then he wouldn’t settle for those jumpers. I think Joe and Marvin need to dealt for sure while Marvin had his best year since being in the league…question is, will anybody take Joe’s contract? Probably not. Get Joe a personal coach that will turn him into a Ray Allen shooter that comes off of screens and back cuts and not play Iso-Joe (Mike Woodson is with the Knicks now, Joe).
So I say….clear the bench…Dampier, Vlad, Marvin, Green, Pargo…I’d keep T-Mac and Ivan. I’d go after a proven center like Hibbert, a 3-point specialist ala Mike Miller or Kyle Korver, and another defender with some nastiness and HEART…Tony Allen, Shawn Marion type.
But guess what ASG…you’ve gotta spend a little money to actually get players…crazy thought!
makai
May 11th, 2012
7:10 pm
Larry did a hell of a job this season and needs to be brought with a RAISE. Injuries are a part of the game–but to do as well as the Harks did with no center??? Joe Jackson was a dumb signing and needs to go.
jonkdawg
May 11th, 2012
7:44 pm
Joe Johnson is not the answer, he is supposed to a leader not follower but Josh is taking all the credit..he deserves it, we gotta trade Joe to somebody he does not fit in Altlanta any longer.
dirtyo11
May 11th, 2012
7:50 pm
Send Joe & Marvin to Orlando will make this trade because they need to get something for Howard before he leave FA. If Howard don’t workout after 1 yr & leave through FA, Hawks will have money to sign another top FA.
C- Howard
PF-Hordford
SF-Smith
SG-Trade Hinrich & 1st Rnd pick for Eric Gordon, Kevin Martin, Tyreke Evans, DeMar DeRozen, Evan Turner or Rodney Stuckey (yeah there are a lot of options out there)
PG- Teague
Bench: T-Mac, Ivan Johnson, ZaZa, Pargo & Willie Green
MJinATL
May 11th, 2012
7:51 pm
LD isn’t the problem, he was actually one of the best coaches we’ve ever had in Atlanta. Everyone said we were doomed once Horford went down, but he held this team together, so what if he’s cheap every great coach had to start somewhere. He uses the bench something Woodson didn’t do. Drew had the guts to bench Marvin Williams. The problem with the Hawks are the ownership, the GM (for handicapping the roster with JJ’s contract), and the players. I hope LD stays and gets a raise. We’ve needed a good coach like Mike Fratello for a while now.
kevkat
May 11th, 2012
8:01 pm
Let’s face it. Joe Johnson got what he wanted..millions of dollars. He doesn’t appear to even want to be in Atlanta. He wanted to be “the man” but is just not on the level of a Wade, Kobe, Lebron etc. And despite all his issues, we need Josh Smith.
DC
May 11th, 2012
8:07 pm
Manny and others who thinks Josh Smith works with this team is crazy! Josh sits at the other end of the floor and cries every time he thinks he gets fouled and he thinks he gets fould every play. He shoots more 16+ foot jump shots then any big man I know and he is the only person in the NBA who can get a technical foul while running his mouth out of bounds!!! Get rid of him and Johnson. The hawks are a joke. A team of misery.
No-Show Johnson
May 11th, 2012
8:31 pm
“It’s been a long season”
and this a quote when the season was shorter …..
and we really need to get one thing straight here, just because Joe gets paid “a lot” doesn’t mean he’s a star (so stop trying to force the ball to him like he is one and don’t think you have to just because HE thinks he is one!!!), it’s not the money that makes you a star … it’s ability. Frankly I don’t think the Hawks have a star. Joe has potential but it’ll never surface, Josh .. mmm no. Horford? Maybe at some point but not now. It’s jJust another thing they’ll have to live with. They can’t trade for a star player and considering how ownership drafts they’ll never be able to draft a future star player either.
Z-Ro
May 11th, 2012
8:31 pm
Joe wants all the money and 20% of the responsibility i watch him constantly post up smaller guys and abort prematurely… if he gets the ball up high he dribbles the ball down to 5 0r 6 seconds on the clock all the damn time and passes off so someone else has to take a rushed shot!! As much as we dog Marvin he does what is asked…they dont really run any offense for him at all! Josh is so hell bent on winning that he screws up sometimes BUT I ADMIRE THAT….HE’S A WARRIOR!!! Al is a worker but the 5 spot is not his to play HE’S A 4!!! Joe is 60% percent of the problem Drew is 10% Ownership is10% and our fans are 20% because we have no earthly idea how to support a team!!!
jlewis
May 11th, 2012
8:32 pm
Once again, Schultz and Bradley feed the meter with junk. JJ is not the reason the hawks are losing, anyone that watched the team this year knows it was filled with injuries the whole season, Josh and Joe held the team together. Why dont you guys do some real reporting, for instance:
1.) People say get a real superstar, no one wants to come to ATL, bad fans and ownership.
2.) Name a player comparable to Josh and Joe that you can sign or trade for less money.
3.) Address the fact that there is no other shooter on this team that can defend and shoot to take pressure off Joe. You never mention double and triple teams.
4.) Address the fact that LD was playing his bench against Boston’s starters.
Also, DWade hasnt won anything since shaq left, lebron left cleveland to get some help, kobe is playing with two great big men and got sweep out of the playoffs and denver is about to beat them. Melo and Amare, you know that story. This is still a young team thats pretty good, they need some toughness, because i remember just a few years ago, 10 wins was a stretch before JJ and Josh blossomed. Lets me realistic, you guys hate on Joe for his paycheck, thats not his fault, I’m sure in my mind, the AJC pay you guys to much.
FunkyBobbyJ
May 11th, 2012
8:35 pm
Ownership has to swallow their pride and take amnesty on JJ. He is a solid player, but not a top-tier player. Horford, Josh, and Teague are a good start and Marvin is overpaid, but okay off the bench. The freed-up salary from JJ ought to allow us to sign some solid players.
Z-Ro
May 11th, 2012
8:39 pm
Has anyone ever seen ANYONE wearing a Joe Johnson jersey???
Say It Aint So
May 11th, 2012
8:43 pm
Enter your comments here
jlewis
May 11th, 2012
8:43 pm
I’m just curious, why all the acrimony for a guy that doesnt cause any trouble, made one miss statement during his tenure here and no player that has played with him currently or that has left said anything bad about. Yes, I actually go to the games and have seen many Joe Johnson jerseys.
Jeff
May 11th, 2012
8:47 pm
I suggest to bring Joe in from the bench. Advise him that if he wants to start again,
to begin playing like he is getting paid.
JJ!
May 11th, 2012
8:47 pm
Joe J is tired of having to carry this team in the playoffs–the ATl owners better get another star next year and bump up JJ’s salary or he’s going to walk. He can make a lot more money somewhere else with a better team.
Z-Ro
May 11th, 2012
8:55 pm
im not talking about those shirt jersey thingys with home Depot on them im talking AUTHENTIC JERSEY….and im talking about out in society not at Phillips those are Joe’s relatives you idiot!! I see old Nique jerseys even laettner jerseys on the streets of Atlanta but NO #2 jerseys unless it has AUGMON on the back
KevinM
May 11th, 2012
9:00 pm
I’ve got a JJ tee, but haven’t worn it since the ‘09 season. I’m still a JJ fan, but as Sund said, we’ll go as far as Joe takes us…whoops! That wasn’t the best thing you could’ve said.
I wish Josh for Enes Kanter was a viable trade last year. We would have had a totally different look this past year. But for some reason, there is no desire to have a youth movement on this team. Except for Teague and a 28 YO rookie in Ivan, we’re older than Boston, and there’s no excuse for that.
If we’re going to bring in guys who are 1-D, why didn’t we bring in AI? At least he would have brought some punch to the bench and I know he would be more consistent than any other guy we had there.
I wish the ASG would give the majority of what the fans want: a fresh approach to trying to compete for a championship. With Sund here, there’s no interest in bringing in big name FAs. Sund hasn’t outbid anyone.
So taking FA of any value out of the picture, that leaves the draft and trades.
Sund has done an average job as a GM; he gave us Teague, and he gave us Ivan. The rest of the lineup can be purged while he lives off someone else’s decisions. I’ll be glad should he decide to leave for that great tradition of Portland.
Chippy
May 11th, 2012
9:00 pm
The hawks are not a bad team. Josh is a warrior and great defensive player. Hortford is a problem for a lot of teams combining good size and quickness. Johnson can light it up some nights. Teague has some real quicks. Drew is a much better coach than Woodson. They are just missing by a little. If could get Johnson to do less iso and Josh to quit shooting 16 footers and longer, I think they could really be dangerous.
I think they need a new coach.
Jt
May 11th, 2012
9:03 pm
It’s unfixable- there are some good parts- but it is apparent that they do not fit together. I love Joe- I wanted them to sign him knowing they had to overpay to get him. But he is not capable of being the guy who carries a team. It’s not in his DNA. Also, their overall best player is Josh and he drives EVERYBODY crazy. But, he is the only one that can dominate on both ends of the court. But he has to learn to post up and lay off the j’s. But you cannot get rid of him. Horford is the heart and soul of the team who has to play out of position and still makes a damn difference. But there is no room for change- marvin is unmovable, no one is going to take Joe’s contract and really what they need most is the type of player they “want and hope” Joe to be- and it ain;t happening
Wink
May 11th, 2012
9:19 pm
Welcome Philly to the Eastern Conference Finals!
Check the record the Hawks got their clock cleaned by Philly all season!
NBA did not want to see the Hawks advance…they made a bad call…a day later they could admit it….sounds like George Bush…no weapons of mass destruction…awe shucks my bad!
Can we just get another team to relocate here and play at Gwinette Center!
ASG your Luxury Tax dividend check is in the mail…no more expenses this year…your players have gone fishing!
Putting On The Foil
May 11th, 2012
9:21 pm
Ship ‘em to Winnepeg.
Wally
May 11th, 2012
9:26 pm
Offer a trade with the team with the number one draft pick. Offer any three players (Al Horford only protected player), one to go must be Joe. Take the young center from Kentucky and start over. I do like Josh Smith but he gives me ulcers.
Also, why Marvin in the game at the end when Heinrich would have been a better option. At least he offers a better chance of making a shot in the clutch than everyone but Horford.
Justin
May 11th, 2012
9:38 pm
Gloom, doom, despair. The Celtics were one of the best teams in the NBA after the All-star break. They had their entire roster almost the entire series. The Hawks were playing a decimated front line, and yes they missed some chances, but they played a solid series. They do need to replace the coach I think, and probably trade Josh Smith. We’ve known about JJ for a long time. But let’s not get too worked up. Whatch think?
Wink
May 11th, 2012
9:42 pm
Question: Why is Joe Johnson not on the Olympic Team?…oh he has not been invited YET!!!! hmmmmmmmmmm?
Question: Why can’t Josh make an ALL STAR TEAM?…oh he has not been voted in or invited…not a league favorite!!!! hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?
Question: Why will we see this same SCRIPT play out next season …. same cast of characters return…same result….ASG Insanity!!!!! yeahhhhhhhhhhhhh!
Question: Why will the Highlight Factory marketing slogan…be replaced with…Walking Wounded Returns-Pursuit of ECF, part VI… produced by Grady ER…message approved by ASG???????????????
Question: Why do I have this belly bulge?…because the beer goes down better at a sports bar than the Highlight Factory@Phillips Arena…first time in 20 years not one penney spent there!
Not proud of that, but it is what it is Man!
tjhook
May 11th, 2012
9:43 pm
I agree with Chippy: The Hawks need a new coach. LD sold us on the idea that he could tighten this group up and the truth is he doesn’t run a program that is strong enough to do it. Joe and Josh run this team and just get input from Larry Drew. Can him and get Eric Mussleman!
Walt Frazier
May 11th, 2012
9:54 pm
Who cares ??? It’s the f-ing Hawks.
Z-Ro
May 11th, 2012
10:14 pm
Hawks cant get any coach or player with any concerns about winning we have to play the hand we’re dealt! maybe sincne Woodson is such a Joe Johnson fan send him to Ny for Melo along with Marvin
cdog
May 11th, 2012
10:17 pm
they need a coach and general anager or combination who has won and want to win a championship. mike woodson won 55 games and was stupidly let go. im going to see will larry drew be let go. the team wasnt this pathetic and inconsstent like it is now under drew
Matt the Brave
May 11th, 2012
10:18 pm
To me, they should have let Joe Johnson walk and built around Horford and Smith. Also for me, everyone except those two are expendable. But who would want to come to Atlanta knowing that you’d likely only be here for two years?
dawgforlife
May 11th, 2012
10:20 pm
whoever is traded and whoever stays, the solution is running everything through Teague. As soon as we get the rebound, it should be outletted to Teague, up the floor Tiny Archibald fast. We need to run the other team into the ground. Instead, we walk it up the floor with Joe or Josh and isolate half court. If they could not get on board with running everything through Teague, they should be gone. Jeff Teague and his speed..that is the ticket…but, it will never happen as long as prima donnas will not even let our point guard bring the ball up the court.
dawgforlife
May 11th, 2012
10:22 pm
uh whomever…
Larry Bird
May 11th, 2012
10:22 pm
Im a Celtic fan. And the hawks have some good players. They would be wise to move Joe Johnson., a nitwit. Their owner is in the same boat. Good no nonsense coach would help. Teams win ffrom the ownership down. All on the same page. Clearly the hawks dont have this, I think they are a younger, more altheletic team with good players, facing an older team whose best is behind them, The Hawks arent a good match up. Boy, would Horford look good in Green (sorry). A big key was the hawks losing game 2. Home court changed. Veteran teams dont get rattled by losing game 1. If the Celtics can get by the 76ers, they will beat the Heat. Then they will get smoked by the Lakers. Hang in there and pressure to get a new owner and a good GM. It all starts there.
RA
May 11th, 2012
10:28 pm
Schultz or should I say #%?!. Leave it to you to show us that light at the end of the tunnel that turns out to be a freight train. No where in your article did I see any mention of the OFFICIATING MISTAKE THAT COSTS THE HAWKS THE GAME!!! I’m sorry, even the NBA admitted that the refs missed that call, and instead of calling for a public effigy burning of the referees or, and here’s an idea, asking what the NBA should do to make travesties like this right, you line up with all the other pundits and rip the home team for all you’re worth, and that ain’t much. OUR TEAM GOT HOSED SCHULTZ! That means that the Hawks and the ten real fans that they have got cheated too. Is there one journalist on the ajc that dares speak to that? One thing’s for sure, it sure as hell isn’t you.
RA
May 11th, 2012
10:34 pm
Oh, and while your buddy Kevin Garnette is giving out thanks, he needs to be sure and include the basketball gods for making sure that we were without Al and Za Za for the first two games, and he should also thank the refs that managed to miss all those grabs and pulls and fouls that he made throughout the playoffs. Well, I guess when you’re that old you gotta do something to keep guys in front of you. He also needs to thank commissioner David Stern who, apparently, hasn’t put any rules on the books about how to make up for the fact that officials blew a call that ended a series.
Atl21
May 11th, 2012
10:55 pm
Right now everyone is upset with the HAWKS. But take a deep breath and THINK, people are saying trade Josh, Marvin, JJ. Release Stack, Kirk, Twin, Damp, Vald. Fire LD, and Sund. Those are all great fantasy ideas! First with trade we need a willing partner to give us better or equal. We have to reload with better or equal players. The same applies for HC and GM! Who ever has all the answers to the questions please inform us! Also I am tired of all of the ATL teams haters. If you are from another city, why are you here?
Larry Bird
May 11th, 2012
11:00 pm
Atl21, I thought I would give a fair analysis from Boston, rather than being a yahoo and talking trash. sorry to infringe on your newspaper. Now, whats your problem?
Harpie
May 11th, 2012
11:23 pm
Larry Drew is the biggest problem -he’s the problem that allows the other problems to happen, No real coach would let Josh get away with the stupid crap he does, or let Joe mope around the court like a spoiled child when things aren’t going his way.Drew SUCKS.l
DWatie
May 11th, 2012
11:26 pm
These guys (Hawks organization and especially the Atlanta Spirit Group) are so bad they almost make Barack Obama seem competent in comparison. Maybe, they should come out in favor of gay marriage to distract from their horrible playoff performance?
heartofdarkness
May 11th, 2012
11:40 pm
Let it go, Jake. It’s Chinatown.
Milkson Wafer
May 11th, 2012
11:50 pm
Here is what the hawks need to do…they need to amnesty Joe Johnson…big waste of money, trade Marvin Williams and Josh Smith , and get rid of the dead weight….the Hawks have never had a legitimate bench since I started watching them back in 1986.
Ted
May 11th, 2012
11:52 pm
The coach sets the tone, and it is a bad one. Fire Drew.
Hilltopper
May 11th, 2012
11:55 pm
Maybe someone can talk Ted Turner into buying this sorry excuse of a team. Maybe he could fund it properly and pay the bucks to thoses who produce. Does any sane person think another team would pay $20M for JJ?
No Mas $$$ for the ASG
May 11th, 2012
11:58 pm
You could not have written a better storyline than this. The ASG dumped the Thrashers and kept their true love, the Hawks. It really wouldn’t matter if it was a tiddlywinks team with this ownership group. This is their legacy and it could not be more entertaining to watch…..from a distance.
day old fries
May 12th, 2012
12:09 am
Infiltrate.
Destroy.
Rebuild.
Jim
May 12th, 2012
12:15 am
Joe Johnson is a piece of poop. Josh Smith is the best player on the Hawks but can’t exist with JJ because of the coach. JJ can’t be traded because nobody in their right mind would want his contract. I believe the only answer here is to get a coach that makes the Hawks “Smiths” team, tell Johnson to get on board, and pray you can get something for Marvin Williams,WHO MUST GO!!!
The Monger
May 12th, 2012
12:23 am
ROFL!! Stay classy J-Smoove!! You want to play in a better basketball market?? Oh Lord, just wait till Boston or New York fans hound you incessently for your idiotic turnovers and ridiculous jumpshots during clutch time!! You think it will be better in a “better” basketball market. Obviously Josh Smith is as athletic and talented a basketball player as their is in the NBA, but he is inconsistent, prone to emotion and taking plays off, and terrible at recognizing his strengths. I wouldnt even mind 3 or 4 jumpers a game if he was feeling it, but not 10. Also, he is unstoppable at times taking it hard to the rim, faking bigger guys out with spin moves, and crashing the boards, yet 60 percent of the game he is either standing at the 3 point line doing nothing, or trying to be a point guard leading the fast break (which ultimately he turns it over 80 percent of those occasions). So why does he not realize this, and play into his game?? Needless to say, he is part of the reason for the Hawks problem, you helped lose Game 6 single-handedly with your stupid technical in the 4th quarter, and that terrible jumpshot in the 2nd to last possession, not to mention a few more of those terrible jumpshots earlier in the game. Look, Josh Smith, the reason Hawks fans aren’t as crazed as Boston’s or Chicago’s is because they have winners and attitudes that are different than you and your Hawks teammates, they are champions and they breath, eat, and sleep every second for basketball, they train their bodies and minds to win. The Hawks organization has been full of nothing but Losers and loser mentalities for years, such as this Hawks core for the last 4 years. You guys are just collecting your paychecks and laughing all the way to the bank. Joe Johnson is the most unclutch guy in the NBA, he dissapears in the playoffs. Josh Smith makes stupid decisions. Teague only shows up half the games. They have a delusional coach, owners, and GM who think this team actually has heart, talent, and chemistry, of which they have none of those in reality. This team is composed of whiny, selfish, inconsistent premadonas and a terrible coach, that is outmatched nightly. Combine that with the worst GM in the NBA and the worst ownership and you wonder why Hawks fans dont want to show up, and hate the Hawks organization? After 45+ years of this patheticness of pro basketball in Atlanta with these same type of loser minded teams that anybody shows up at all….me and my 4 friends no longer step foot in Phillips until new ownership, a new coach, and a team with more heart and effort shows up….which may be awhile…
Iceman 865
May 12th, 2012
12:24 am
ROFL!! Stay classy J-Smoove!! You want to play in a better basketball market?? Oh Lord, just wait till Boston or New York fans hound you incessently for your idiotic turnovers and ridiculous jumpshots during clutch time!! You think it will be better in a “better” basketball market. Obviously Josh Smith is as athletic and talented a basketball player as their is in the NBA, but he is inconsistent, prone to emotion and taking plays off, and terrible at recognizing his strengths. I wouldnt even mind 3 or 4 jumpers a game if he was feeling it, but not 10. Also, he is unstoppable at times taking it hard to the rim, faking bigger guys out with spin moves, and crashing the boards, yet 60 percent of the game he is either standing at the 3 point line doing nothing, or trying to be a point guard leading the fast break (which ultimately he turns it over 80 percent of those occasions). So why does he not realize this, and play into his game?? Needless to say, he is part of the reason for the Hawks problem, you helped lose Game 6 single-handedly with your stupid technical in the 4th quarter, and that terrible jumpshot in the 2nd to last possession, not to mention a few more of those terrible jumpshots earlier in the game. Look, Josh Smith, the reason Hawks fans aren’t as crazed as Boston’s or Chicago’s is because they have winners and attitudes that are different than you and your Hawks teammates, they are champions and they breath, eat, and sleep every second for basketball, they train their bodies and minds to win. The Hawks organization has been full of nothing but Losers and loser mentalities for years, such as this Hawks core for the last 4 years. You guys are just collecting your paychecks and laughing all the way to the bank. Joe Johnson is the most unclutch guy in the NBA, he dissapears in the playoffs. Josh Smith makes stupid decisions. Teague only shows up half the games. They have a delusional coach, owners, and GM who think this team actually has heart, talent, and chemistry, of which they have none of those in reality. This team is composed of whiny, selfish, inconsistent premadonas and a terrible coach, that is outmatched nightly. Combine that with the worst GM in the NBA and the worst ownership and you wonder why Hawks fans dont want to show up, and hate the Hawks organization? After 45+ years of this patheticness of pro basketball in Atlanta with these same type of loser minded teams that anybody shows up at all….me and my 4 friends no longer step foot in Phillips until new ownership, a new coach, and a team with more heart and effort shows up….which may be awhile…
Eb
May 12th, 2012
12:26 am
@Mountain Jim- head back to the hills pal because you’re banjo has more sense than you. Get it through your thick head that If Gearon hadn’t opened his big mouth the AJC- who’s in the news reporting business- would have had nothing to write about.
Ed Stone
May 12th, 2012
12:29 am
Just wondering, do you guys actually watch the games you write about? Josh Smith needs to go #1. Somebody must have told him along the line that he can shoot. He has no business taking jump shots yet they let him fire away. Rick Sund is not the problem but I wouldn’t blame him for walking. This ownership group is always going to go the cheap route on a coach. No disrespect to Drew but we all know why he has the job, it’s all about dollars. For those trashing Joe Johnson, you should thank the Lord we have him. Don’t blame Rick Sund that we have Marvin Williams and not Chris Paul. We passed on Luol Deng and took Josh Childress. Duh! I wouldn’t blame Sund for walking. On another note, why would a free agent want to come to a major league market and have to deal with “bush league” reporters. Has anyone noticed athletes move to Atlanta “after” they retire?
Josh Smith for 3
May 12th, 2012
12:31 am
The Hawks management is easily the most frustrating aspect of all Atlanta sports. The owners signed Joe to that ridiculous contract and now can’t do anything but try to peddle him away to the most foolish taker. Golden State apparently offered Monta Ellis for Josh Smith earlier this season, but the Hawks just tried to trade them JJ instead. We wouldn’t have wanted that trade this season, but it is proof that the Hawks could add very strong talent to their roster in return for a guy who doesn’t even want to play in Atlanta anymore. Unfortunately, I think we’re all betting on the Hawks screwing themselves out of any improvement.
najeh dappenfart
May 12th, 2012
12:34 am
Next yr brothers!
aldog
May 12th, 2012
12:38 am
No you don”t blow up the team. Heard Al Horford in an interview say the coach wanted him and Josh to push the ball up court up the court at every oppurtunity. Right idea wrong people. You need a new coach and a decent center. Keep Joe, Josh, Al ,Marvin and Teague add a center. Off the bench Zsa Zsa, Ivan, Green and Pargo. Dump every one else. You need an established and expierenced coach that can keep Josh on the low post and keep him from bringing the ball up the court. Give it to the guard and run the floor. Same thing for Al. Can’t blame Joe he keeps getting doubled and tripled teamed at lot. Please shut up about his contract, you offer me the money and I’m going to take it in a heartbeat. A good coach will not allow him to dribble so much get him better shots off screens. He’s a better shooter when he goes quickly. This will be Teagues 2nd year. He needs to run at every oppurtunity and the whole team needs to run with him. This is a very athletic team and they are not playing to there strength.With the right coach (smart and tough minded) this team is of championship caliber. He will just need to impose his will on the players and if they don’t respond then you can BLOW THEM STRAIGHT TO HE####%^^**%****%$%$$$$ UP
Dongle
May 12th, 2012
12:45 am
Here’s my assessment:
1. The Spirit are completely clueless and must have gotten their money through inheritance. No other way to explain it.
2. Joe Johnson is simply a weakminded pusty who got pushed around as a kid. This guy is basically worthless and contributes nothing beyond showing up for games.
3. Marvin Williams: only the Spirit could have made the same mistake twice on the same guy. This guy should be playing in Europe for $200k a year.
4. Josh Smith excels at nothing. His ball handling is atrocious and his shooting is even worse. If not for our illustrious owners, he might be in Europe with his pal Marvin. I wouldn’t get up out of my chair to open the door for this guy to discuss a contract.
Atlanta Spirit: PLEASE JUST GO AWAY!
May 12th, 2012
12:58 am
Bravo Mr. Schultz! This is definitely your best piece in the past year.
If an ownership group actually TRIED to buy both pro hockey and pro basketball franchises and run them straight into the ground, then they could hardly do it better than the Atlanta Spirit. Don’t these guys know when to quit? Have they no shame?
I’m PROUD to say we did not attend a single Hawks game this season! This ownership group ripped my 3 young boys’ hearts out when they repeatedly LIED about the Thrashers being for sale and then (once their legal hurdles were overcome) they promptly shipped the team my boys LOVED off to Canada without apology.
For the past 4 years, we attended at least a dozen Thrashers and a dozen Hawks games each season…Which is neither convenient nor inexpensive for a family of 5. But we are fools for this franchise no more. This ownership group will never see another DIME from our family…And sadly enough, that’s the ONLY WAY TO GET RID OF THEM. They clearly won’t leave of their own volition.
We love living in the Atlanta area…But I’m absolutely ASHAMED to bring my sons up in a city that is this PATHETIC in the world of Pro Sports. We’ve started putting our support and dollar$ behind the local high school and college teams. And while they may never win a championship title, at least I take comfort in knowing that I’m no longer one of the suckers paying Sleepy Joe Johnson’s ridiculous salary. This is also a concept my young boys fully understand…
Bluestreak
May 12th, 2012
1:10 am
The Crying Owner needs to take himself and all his slack-jawed buddies and go away. Gearon is an IDIOT. I don’t care that he grew up watching the games with PaPa. So did I. If he loves the team and Atlanta so much, he needs to find a real owner and sell, sell, SELL!!!!
Gearon, Peskowitz and Ted Turner’s mooch need to all GO AWAY!!! The most hated people in Atlanta since Sherman. In fact, I’d rather have him owning the team then these goofs.
You wonder why the NHL helped sell the team to ANYONE just to get rid of these fools. Why else go from a top 10 tv market in the US to a city the size of Columbus, GA?
Watch out fans. If Stern gets tired of these FOOLS, he’ll find anyone to sell this team to and move them to Seattle.
mike sr.
May 12th, 2012
1:49 am
how dare you? Mike has grown up with loving this franchise! Its a learning experience.
Coach
May 12th, 2012
2:08 am
People want to blame J.J. it is not his fault that this management gave him that kind of money. He is a very good player not worth being the highest paid but again it is not his fault. This management team should sell, they have bundled every move. There is still hope for this club. An unexpected Star in the draFT -SHED SOME HIGH PAID DEAD WEIGHT TO GET A PLAYER. THIS MANGEMENT TEAM IS BROKE and need to get new part owners at least to bring some $$$ into organization and then spend it wisely. We could have used Crawford.
Peachtree John
May 12th, 2012
2:13 am
Well, it’s nice to have all the Hawks problems solved. Now, all we need is to have a group from this column buy the team and put the solutions in place. We will live happily everafter.
Gritsfalcon
May 12th, 2012
2:43 am
Braves got here in 1966. Falcons too. Hawks in ‘69? So that is 46 + 46 + 44 (years) = (nevermind the Flames, Thrashers and Atlanta Chiefs-remember them?) =136 years (total) of professional sports. And only ONE championship (Thank you ‘95 Braves!) Says it all doesn’t it?
hasan
May 12th, 2012
3:25 am
I’m from New Jersey, and I’ve rooted for Atlanta this entire year. My issue is this people are sitting here saying trade Josh Smith. Do people not realize that if it weren’t for him the Hawks, wouldn’t be this far?
I remember one game when he had around 28 points and there wasn’t another player that was even in double figures. There was plenty of games this year where he was the leading scorer and nobody else did virtually nothing. Yeah the jump shots get a little aggravating at times but this season he seemed to be the only player playing with passion. Also do you notice that for a big man he make passes that Jeff Teague can’t seem to make? So not only is he their best overall defender, he’s their best rebounder, scorer, and best passer. How many times have we seen Teague have costly turnover after turnover? Teague drives into the paint against 5 opposing players and either force a stupid shot up against a big man or he just turns the ball over. I’m not going to even speak on Joe Johnson. So complain about Josh, all you want but just remember this. The Hawks was a fourth seed this year and that was mostly due to Smith. With this roster they really should have been more like the 8th seed. Look at the Knicks. Smith was the reason the Hawks was seeded so high. Imagine this year without Smith and then imagine this year with just Joe Johnson and Teague. Then you Hawks fans would have really been going crazy.
Hawksd
May 12th, 2012
3:56 am
Im with you jgsbirds!
Josh has a point with hawks fans. True loyalty is missing. If you are a fan then you must deal with the rollercoaster. Sure, at some point you want to see the hawks take “the next step”.
Im a fan, im sticking to them.
Lil' Barry Bailout (Revised Downward)
May 12th, 2012
5:53 am
The Hawks are plagued with a lack of talent and a coach hired for his bargain-basement salary rather than his effectiveness.
Nahila
May 12th, 2012
6:01 am
Joe Johnson’s contract was and is the headache that will plague the Hawks until the contract expires or he is traded, no player can even begin to earn the money in that contract and Joe Johnson is a good player. Pro teams had better rein in these MEGA contracts and realize that they need to reduce their overhead and spread their roster money by building a solid 15 man roster. The Hawks had a great season this year when you consider the injuries. But for the Hawks to really improve, they need to hire the best point guard coach ( as a special assistant) in pro basketball to work off season with Teague and any other roster point guard. That is the best way to get this team to the championship level. Teague improved this year but a vastly improved Teague ( he has more talent that an be developed) would be the best investment. You can evaluate your options, but if it were me, I would extend The contracts of Zaza and Smith, evaluate Marvin Williams to see if more development of his game can be accomplished, if not trade him this off season and go after another big man to develop a front line of Horford, Zaza, and Smiith to go with Johnson and Teague, then bring in that new big center for backup or start and a strong 3 point shooter paying off the bench for meaningful minutes, and a backup point guard to spell Teague. Rookie Johnson had a good year and should be developed as a good backup rotating payer on the front line again next season with meaningful minutes. I know that is what Sund thought he had this season, but losing Horford changed all that. Please allow Twin to now retire and develop or trade for a young Center.
yodaddybrother
May 12th, 2012
6:31 am
We can’t amnesty Joe Johnson because if some team claims him off waivers for say 9 million dollars…..the Atlanta Hawks will be stuck with paying the rest of his contract and the other team would have Joe Johnson without even paying him.
The Hawks are too cheap (I would be too) to go that route.
The best case scenario for the Hawks would be to amnesty Joe Johnson…have him completely clear the waivers (fat chance), resign him at a much lower rate (8 – 10 mill)….resign Josh Smith and then have room to get quality free agents at backup center and starting SF.
It’s risky..because if someone picks up Joe for say 6 million we’d be stuck paying this fool 14 million to play for someone else and the other team would have a complete steal.
The difference between him and say Gilbert Arenas or Rashard Lewis….is that those guys aren’t even good players so it’s likely and expected that they would clear waivers and the team be completely free of them paying anything.
Basically Joe Johnson needs to play the role that he played for the Phoenix Suns which was basically a spot up shooter. Play him like a Ray Allen, JJ Redick, Rip Hamilton type of player which is exactly what he is. ISO JOE as a play needs to be in the garbage bin.
Either post him up, or run him off a series of screens where he can catch and shoot.
yodaddybrother
May 12th, 2012
6:46 am
Since it is unlikely we can get rid of him…we have to utilize his talents. One thing he does very well is shoot the basketball and is DEADLY if left open. Also if we can get some mid range curls (like that play Boston runs for Ray Allen) that guy would be unstoppable.
Basically we need a new offense and head coach.
A coach that will draw plays having Josh Smith on whichever block he’s most comfortable, Al Horford in his mid range sweet spot or running pick and roll with Teague and Marvin and Joe Johnson somewhere spotted up at the three point line.
We don’t need the play where Jeff Teague gets the inbound immediately passes to Joe Johnson, he dribbles up the court looking silly for 20 seconds and then desperately passes the ball to Josh Smith at the 3 point line to force up a BS shot because he cleared out for Iso Joe play.
A competent coach would immediately get that play out of the playbook FOREVER
Paddy
May 12th, 2012
7:05 am
Mountain_jim……….that is not how the news reporting business works,you should know that! And stop blaming the referees, you sould like a HS kid!
Paddy
May 12th, 2012
7:12 am
I don’t think the the ASG can continue to call it a re-building process after 12 years. I believe most of us understand the situation. Though there are a few folks that still buy tickets, not many, but a few!
realist
May 12th, 2012
7:13 am
You forgot another key: The worst group of reporters covering the team in the history of newspapers. Between you, Bradley, and Cunningham, we get a team of idiots whose only focus is to try to damage the team and insult everyone and try to keep fans away from the best team in town. Always looking for the quick smart ass comment, nothing in the way of sports analysis like real newspapers in places like DC and Boston.. We all know the AJC is withering and will someday die, but for me it can’t come fast enough. My junior high newspaper was way better.
Road Scholar
May 12th, 2012
8:34 am
The Hawks need to “hire” some officials like Boston did! Kevin Garnett getting his FIRST foul well into the 4th quarter and the call on Horford at the end was 2-3 seconds LATE. The ball was not inbounded, so there would have been 2 foul shots instead of inbounding it from the side…which screwed the play they called from the baseline during a time out! Granted Horford missed one free throw, but…
I will never attend another NBA game…ever! And I used to attend them before.
Paddy
May 12th, 2012
8:39 am
realist……guess you never read newspapers from Philly, Chicago & NY? The newspaper business may be dying, as you suggest, but so is the NBA.
KBP
May 12th, 2012
9:14 am
Other than Kobe and D Wade, what 2 guard is clearly better than JJ? I am amazed that so many people think JJ is just an average player. Amnesty him and get who? Trade him, Marvin, and Hinrich to Chicago for Noah and Rip Hamilton? If Joe is in Chicago, then the Bulls are the team to beat in the East. Let’s keep JJ,Josh,Teague,Al,Marvin, Green, Ivan, Zsa Zsa and sign Chris Kaman, and whomever else to fill the roster. We could compete with anybody in the east with Kaman at center.
Really?
May 12th, 2012
9:42 am
Just remember… if you blow it up, it is not necessarily the case it will be better and then there is the wait… last blow up, we win 13 games in a full season. Then, if I remember correctly, we doubled that the next season (or the season after). That’s what a blow up did last.. and this is what we ended up with. Still want a blow up?
Howard
May 12th, 2012
9:51 am
There is only one way for this team to succeed. Get rid of Joe Johnson. Every year in the playoffs he disappears when stars are supposed to step up. During the season Josh became the star and we did well. In the playoffs Joe was made the star again and we looked bad. Trade him even if you have to eat half his salary. This is addition by subtraction.
GT
May 12th, 2012
9:58 am
I think Larry Drew is a pretty good coach. I think Josh Smith is uncoachable, which allows opponents to sucker him into 30 footers while they double team Johnson. Smith doesn’t think of Al Hortford or Teague as his outlet pass, maybe Drew doesn’t either, but Drew knows his problems. He articulates exactly what is not happening, lazy starts, no aggressive moves to the baskets, too much perimeter shooting, yet ,especially Smith, they keep doing the same thing. I truly believe it is a few of the players starting with Josh Smith. He is just not smart enough to understand what is suppose to happen. Watch Paul Pierce and you see a player one with his coach, who can execute what Rivers puts on a grease board. Pierce came out of Kansas playing for Roy Williams. Was good coming into college and got better because of coaching in college. There is a lot more about winning than talent, Roy Williams teaches that, Josh never has learned that lesson. This is very much to me the problem with these kids coming directly into the pros.
Al Horford and Jeff Teague are those kind of players that understand what a winner is suppose to look and act like. Johnson comes out of that soft west coast basketball. He plays very much like a California kid, got skills but no aggressiveness, laid back no leadership. Look at kids like Carlos Boozer smart, physical and compare them to Johnson. Boozer is tough and coach-able, Johnson is going though awkward motions not really in the game. I would trade Smith, for someone like Joakim Noah. Put a team together that kicks Johnson around and makes him play, let the team lead the leader.
cpsman_atlanta
May 12th, 2012
10:02 am
ATLANTA SPIRIT GROUP = BIGGEST OWNERSHIP FAILURE EVER!!!
Paddy
May 12th, 2012
10:02 am
Howard….ASG won’t eat 1/2of JJ salary. Even if they could eat some of it, it is too much of a monster for ANY team to be interested in someone elses aging super star! The Hawks are stuck with that terrible contract till it runs out. By then you will be able to have hand gernade practice at Phillips and not hit anyone!
Paddy
May 12th, 2012
10:08 am
GT…….well said. But Joakim Noah? You can’t build a team around a major head case!
GT
May 12th, 2012
10:57 am
Noak was a reaching I admit, but the idea of higher coached and basketball IQ still stands. Players making 10s of millions of dollars that never reach a maturity level of an adult, more less the level of a leader is killing this team. We have mature people just not the ones getting paid or being allowed to lead.
falCANS
May 12th, 2012
11:05 am
Uf your still asking to trade Smoove your an idiot!!! We wouldn’t have won 20 games without Josh. This IA y were the worst sports city cuz our fans are unappreciative. And fickle. Great season Hawks sorry the refs were against yall all series
Paddy
May 12th, 2012
11:15 am
falCANS…..pls tell us all how we can be more appreciative and less fickled toward the ASG? Your ans should be very interesting!
And quit blaming the ref’s. Sounds like something a kid would write in his/her school newspaper. That remark has been around as long as there has been sports teams. It is called the “rub of the green”! Yes, ref’s make mistakes. But sure as h_ll they don’t care who wins! They get paid either way.
Hunkerdown
May 12th, 2012
11:33 am
JJ’s play was disappointing to say the least. I agree that the future of this team is in jeopardy.
Fats O
May 12th, 2012
11:45 am
TEAMS do not get that many technical fouls in a critical playoff game. That is one reason The Hawks in Alt have NEVER beaten the Celtics. NO discipline will kill ya EVERYTIME
Sid
May 12th, 2012
11:52 am
Falcons Fans: Don’t waste your time blogging with Ledbetter, the writer protects and supports the trolls and may actually be a troll himself. Move somewhere else to speak freely and not be deleted by God himself. Hitler’s own SS had more freedom to speak.
Thank you for allowing me to interrupt your Hawks obsequies.
Robdawg
May 12th, 2012
11:53 am
The Hawks have to be realistic about what’s available. There are only a half dozen teams with similar salary situations that would be willing and able to deal with our JJ and JS issue. These would be teams with parts that match our salary issues and that are also fed up with players and want to unlaod them. This would be the Lakers, Memphis, Miami, Orlando, New York, Toronto and Utah. From the Lakers, we could get Pau Gasol, Idiot boy – M Be Stupid, Josh McRoberts and Steve Blake. If Memphis loses to the Clippers in round 1, they will probably be ready to deal – Zack Randolf and/or Rudy Gay. If Miami loses to Indiana, we could probably expect them to be willing to unload anyone other than Labron. That would include D Wade and Chris Bosh. Orlando is in trouble. We could maybe get big Dwight and JJ Reddick. They would make us take Turkaglu to get rd of his contract. Toronto has some interesting pieces that would help the Hawks. This would be Calderon, Barganini and Amir Johnson. Utah would have to include two of three parts: Jefferson, Harris and Milsap. New York would have to include you know who and that might be our best option offered. Of course, we do not have to trade both to the same team. We could trade them seperately and get the players above individually. By trading them together, we could take advantage of Josh being in the trade and get a little more. Sounds like if we could maybe get some combo of Pau Gasol, Zack Randolf, JJ Reddick and maybe Rudy Gay, we could be ok next year. This would give us a much smarter team and players that actually pass the ball. We can find scorers. We need SMART players at the end of the game that will protect the ball and NOT turn it over. NO settling for jump shots. If we do not get a coach to control the inmates nothing will ever change. LD is not the answer. The man in Lexington has shown recently that he knows how to handle young guys with discipline issues. He would be choice #1.
joe white
May 12th, 2012
12:44 pm
The biggest issue with the hawks is our owners, coach and joe johnson please find a team and trade him pick up a good two guard and big man and we good
O'Brien
May 12th, 2012
1:08 pm
http://blogs.ajc.com/jeff-schultz-blog/2012/05/11/hawks-plagued-with-too-many-issues-from-owners-to-joe/?cxntfid=blogs_jeff_schultz_blog/
chuck
May 12th, 2012
1:30 pm
The reality is we are stuck with the NBA version of the Wizard of OZ. Johnson is both Tin Man (no heart) and the Cowardly Lion No courage). Smith is the Scarecrow (no brain). The core of the team other than Horford is all Cowardly Lions.
The best two players on the team by far are both PF and neither should be playing anywhere near big minutes at another position. I have nothing against Josh Smith BUT he is the one that needs to go. The best thing that could happen to Josh is to get traded to a team with some veteran leadership. What do you think Garnett would have done to Josh if he threw up that absurd shot for the Celtics like he did tonight with 9 seconds left? Smith needs a head coach and a teammate enforcer that will tie him to the basket and not let him get away.
What could we expect to receive for Josh Smith? We need to hopefully get a small forward and a legitimate center thru a trade for Josh and the draft. Play Marvin off the bench The additions HAVE to be willing to play in the paint unlike this bunch of gutless jump shooters.
Poncho
May 12th, 2012
1:52 pm
Wait… WHO bombed Pearl Harbor?!
Mister.Earl
May 12th, 2012
2:16 pm
Ever notice how the Atlanta Hawks players do not communicate on the court?
The verbal skills of Joe Johnson need serious work if he to ever lead, or represent the franchise in any capacity. Too many reluctant players alongside the volatile Josh Smith is a recipe for chaos.
It is what it is.
al
May 12th, 2012
2:20 pm
Italy bombed Pearl harbor, or was it North Korea?
Grandmaster JeJe
May 12th, 2012
4:07 pm
When did Gearon blame the AJC? Please provide a link.
And MC has been less than impressive
Paddy
May 12th, 2012
5:43 pm
al…..you are right, Italy bombed Pearl Harbor, while Claire Chanault’s Flying Tigers flew cover. I remember it like it was yesterday!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
bigcalidawg
May 12th, 2012
6:09 pm
We are completely hamstrung by JJ’s contract.
I see our nucleus as Smoove, Teague, Horford, ZaZa, T-Mac, Pargo, and Ian….stuck wit the contract…..can’t make any changes, unless we luck out via draft
mock1
May 12th, 2012
7:00 pm
Now is the time to blow this team up!!! It is what it is,Joe Johnson,Josh Smith& especially Marvin Williams has to go & now is the time!!! Try to build around Al Hartford & Jeff Teague,we need players that can score in the post to fill in with these two YOUNG players.Rebuild mode needs to be in effect like
Najeh Davenpoop
May 12th, 2012
8:50 pm
“But if you ask some of these clowns, they’ll tell you the Hawks are the best franchise in town weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!”
Did the Falcons or Braves advance in the playoffs in the last five years?
No?
Then yeah, the Hawks are the best team in Atlanta.
Says more about the Falcons and Braves than the Hawks, but it is what it is. Until those teams beat someone in the playoffs, they haven’t passed the Hawks yet.
Teezo
May 12th, 2012
8:55 pm
I just sit back and think about 2005 when the Hawks could have built a championship contender…Drafted Smith and Childress (should have been Iggy or Deng) and traded for JJ…The next season we draft Williams instead of Paul or DWillz…I think right now in 2012 our core could be JJ JSmith CPaul and Iggy/Deng not JJ JSmith Williams and Horford…My point is that ownership and management has to look at themselves before thinking about moving players b/c clearly they don’t know talent…
vjmaxx
May 12th, 2012
9:33 pm
My wishes for the Hawks:
1 – Get a power Center that can score somehow / move Halford to forward
2 – Make Josh watch Labron James’ game film!!!!! Josh could dominate if he put his mind and heart to it
3 – Stop making Joe go 1 on 1 at the end of games (it forces the other 4 to just stand around and watch; no back picks away from the ball). If you did #1 you wouldn’t put the pressure on Joe – (great open shooter)
4 – Attack the basket – take the ball to the rim strong!!! (Josh, Joe, Jeff) watch game film; you’ll see what I mean…..
5 – Start playing a consistant uptempo game – they should be running teams out the gym!!!
6 – Fine a bonafide leader who will get in someone’s az if they’re not giving it their all on the court!!!!
Atlanta Spirit: PLEASE JUST GO AWAY!
May 12th, 2012
9:35 pm
Sports Illustrated snapped this AMAZING photo of Joe Johnson during Game 4 of the playoffs…Or was it game 6? Doesn’t really matter…I’ve seen him do this same move during the playoffs for the past 4 seasons!
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/gallery/featured/GAL1169477/7/19/index.htm
boxxiethebull
May 12th, 2012
10:19 pm
We have a chance to change our team for the better…but we wont…we need Arthur Blank in basketball… new gm? Sunds’ not bad but how about Larry Brown as gm/coach…Kenny the jet as coach?…jeff van gundy?….Jerry Sloan as gm/coach?!….but gearon would never pay for him….jj is a good scorer, but not a good leader…hawks need a leader….trade jj out west(we dont wanna see him all year long), and turn the team over to Horford/Smith and Teague and ZAZA and Green and Pargo and Ivan and mabey McGrady and get em some help….man, im trying to be a fan but you just wont lemme….
Pink Pony
May 12th, 2012
10:47 pm
ASG and Joe Johnson = horse crap
Pink Pony
May 12th, 2012
10:49 pm
I love Geron was fined $35k -that little botch will have to ask his daddy for a loan
Pink Pony
May 12th, 2012
10:54 pm
ASG = JERKS
New Orleans 'Inhales'
May 13th, 2012
3:05 am
If Atlanta Spirit sells the team — for real — that would be the best offseason move of all….
Jesus Freakin Christ
May 13th, 2012
6:56 am
Asante Samuel WAS a Pro Bowl player. Today his value is a 7th round pick. Samuel is crap. Falcons will continue to suck.
Jesus Freakin Christ
May 13th, 2012
6:58 am
The Hawks overachieved with their injuries. Fans in every city think their team is better than they really are. Remember, no one is better than me.
Zeke!
May 13th, 2012
8:33 am
Hire Isiah Thomas as coach and GM—get a couple of new players and the Hawks will be back!!! Zeke knows his stuff.
Chuck
May 13th, 2012
9:59 am
Keep Larry Drew, do whatever we need to do to move Joe Johnson; there has to be some team that needs a perimeter scorer as their 2nd or 3rd “star” player, and Joe is wasting everybody’s time here, including his own.
Wash the clothes now
May 13th, 2012
10:03 am
Ah to Buball baller It was Japs who did pearl harbor u dumb bell…..and as for Hawks same ole song that why since atlanta sprit group leaves atlanta sales team never see a world championship Banner ever…why simple GM who is Hired by the Marx brothers the city of atlanta mayor who said thrashers who cares…..let them go we keep hawks so we can get money under me desk for free tickets….Only way win is that Pizza guy trys again buy team and arena too…Other wise they go 52-30 again and get Sir charles to fuss and espn to Gaged and a early exit n raise ticket prices for Us great Fans again!
Wash the clothes now
May 13th, 2012
10:16 am
First we have idiots who not know Pearl harbor was HIT BY Japs now…..Hawks new slogan for 2012-13 season….This is are year rise up atlanta Fans,,,,be new hit by 790 the Fan Kincade n friends n ASG alike…and to show it Atlanta sprit group will raise price of tickets to show they care…and Mindless idiots will show up again see NBA action even if other team playin..well hawks will have some there sittin on thorns n gettin mild case of rash after see price of food!….Never aless a great season follow 1st round exit and a new slogan,,,,,,See u in seattle in 2013-14 season will show!
Week
May 13th, 2012
10:23 am
Why not have some guts and publish something like this before the season ends. As predictable as an Atlanta sports teams’ future outcome in the playoffs. This kind of writing is like a broken record…may as well republish the same the next year with new names/teams.
Al
May 13th, 2012
12:56 pm
Come on people, cant you see that being sarcastic about Pearl Harbor being bombed by Italy or North Korea is just that, sarcasm.Of corse the Japs did the bombing, and they paid for it by being bombed on a bigger scale.
Will
May 13th, 2012
1:39 pm
Trade Josh Smith for piston big man Monroe. Draft a good “6 8″ to “6 10″ swingman at no. 17, who plays hard and understands team concept, and make sure you are active in free agents, early.
If this team could somehow get Monroe as the hawks new center, they immediately move up to another level.
Delbert D.
May 13th, 2012
1:54 pm
@Al “Of corse the Japs did the bombing, and they paid for it by being bombed on a bigger scale.”
Fixing the Hawks should not require an effort on the scale of the Manhattan Project. One dedicated owner is probably the answer.
dub366
May 13th, 2012
2:52 pm
i was all in for Larry Drew for the next Hawks coach,but after this season i don’t have no respect for him. when he let Joe Johnson iso with 4 min left in the game an almost lose it when he hasn’t done nothing all night long. what do the other players on the team think when LD calling a play for him JJ. he is over pay for his talent he a differ basketball player now what kind i don’t no he not an allstar player which should have went to josh smith. i’m not crazy about what Josh do at time but he give you effort at both end of the floor. you lose Josh the hawks are threw. what happen to 9 to 5(I. Johnson) in the playoff . now you going to lose your bench behind this. player that need to go J johnson , hingrich, M william,Collin. coach LD need to go bring someone in with balls to stand up to the players.
JM
May 13th, 2012
4:07 pm
Will,
You are a dumb azz! Monroe is a PF! The Hawks need another PF like they need a whole their head. Dump MW and free up cap space. Forget the past, the Hawks have made numerous stupid choices, but the focus must be the future.
Fire Sund, LD, and dump MW!
l jones
May 13th, 2012
4:35 pm
If Gearon can’t or won’t do anything else for Hawks’ fans, at least he can put his silver spoon in his mouth and shut up. I heard him actually cry on the radio after he and the rest of the Spirit Group sold the Thrashers, completing their long, painful screwing of Atlanta’s hockey fans. He made me want to puke. Why can’t these born-rich, imcompetent brats buy expensive toys that don’t affect the economy of all of metro Atlanta?
rally
May 13th, 2012
4:36 pm
Adolph Hitler couldn’t fix these Hawks even if he tried. There that bad….well wait a second he could. Just throw them in the gas chamber and start over. How about roasting and toasting for a change. Let some heads roll in all of Atlanta’s Sports franchises. I wish someone would please take down who ever is in control of alot of it. I mean the media never goes straight to the ownership….why is that??? Bought and paid for shills that control the gates. Your gatekeepers and th
at’s all the people in journalism is now. Gatekeepers to keep the truth hidden from the sheeple.
l jones
May 13th, 2012
4:37 pm
I mean “incompetent.” Sorry, Mike.
hawk21
May 13th, 2012
4:43 pm
I have a idea that may solve some concern. 3 team trade Atl, LAL,Orl. Josh to Orl, Howard to LAL, then Byrum to ATL!!!
Pink Pony
May 13th, 2012
6:15 pm
Just saw a piece on ESPN calling Gearon an idiot. LOL.
phil
May 13th, 2012
6:24 pm
A pathetic, moribund bunch.
Sad.
Fire and release everyone!!
Big Ray
May 13th, 2012
7:21 pm
Yep.
The one thing that needs to go above all others is the one that is most likely to stay – Mike Gearon and his band of retards.
Joe Johnson with a max contract was a mistake from the very first thought of letting him do it. We should have let him go to New York, where they would have dysfunctionalized themselves anyway, and then Joe could get the New York style heat from the fans that he so richly deserves. Instead, he’s the one guy in the entire organization who is laughing his way through all of this, regardless of publicly whining about how many shots he gets to miss…er, I mean…take.
Josh is who he is. Forcing a bad jumper at the wrong time was something he had started to get away from, but guess what? The Playoffs bring out all of your bad habits, as well as your good ones. One of Josh’s bad habits (the bad jumper timing) is attached to another one – competing with Joe for shots and “save the team” moments.
Likely, we’ll end up keeping one of the two. Give us Josh. Joe needs to go.
Sund will hopefully retire back to the west coast. Drew needs to go work behind somebody else’s head coach. Is Dwayne Casey still available?
Here’s what’s going to suck, though. Josh will want out, and we’ll trade him. We’ll get peanuts and bad contracts, and single ply toilet paper in return. We’ll still have Joe because no one will want him after that horrid playoff appearance. Soon enough, Horford will want out as well….
tyger
May 13th, 2012
7:28 pm
Off-season issues are many:
1. Rick Sund – not impressed, aloof; hamstrung by ownership; did not advance team.
2. Larry Drew – impressive; clever; resilient; good first/second year coaching job.
3. JJohnson – $21M limits flexibility; but good, not great, outside presence.
4. AHorford – Allstar C-F is future; do we move him to PF permanently now?
5. JSmith – Time to part ways with gifted F while value high, not champion-smart.
6. ZPachulia – Starting C alongside Horford or do you trade him now for value?
7. MWilliams – Inconsistent, available, but absent JSmith, does he rise? Good Game 6.
8. JTeague – Improved, but worst PG in playoffs, weak link. Desperately need upgrade.
9. KHinrich – Overall dissapointment, did not provide needed vet leadership in backct.
10. TMac – When given opportunity, still playmaker, minus Josh then what?
11. WGreen – Athletic but streaky scorer, LD seems to favor him.
12. IJohnson – Good rookie season for 28 yr. old, suspect character issues benched him.
13. JCollins – Good depth at center, 7′0, 15 yr. vet can still play, good value.
14. EDampier – Even better depth at center, 7′0, 15 yr. vet can still play, good value.
15. VRadmanovic – Early season success, streaky shooter, injuries derailed campaign.
16. JPargo – Early season success, but horrid playoffs, injuries affecting him???
1. Where does Horford play next season C or PF?
2. If PF, trade Josh for best player available or Top 5 pick.
3. Move ZaZa to starting C position, contract expires next season.
4. Keep or Trade Marvin? Probably can get a late lottery pick – 15/16.
5. With 2/3 1st rd picks target: 1. 6′11, PF, Perry Jones, Baylor 2. 6′9, G/F, Quincy Miller, Baylor 3. 7′0, C, Fab Melo, Syracuse
6. Acquire Free Agent veteran point guard – Jason Kidd, Jason Terry, Chauncey Billups…
2012-2013 Hawks
JTerry JTeague JPargo
JJohnson WGreen _______
TMcGrady QMiller IJohnson
AHorford PJones JCollins
ZPachulia FMelo EDampier
Disgusted
May 13th, 2012
7:59 pm
I wish this franchise and ownership would leave–then maybe we would have a chance at an NHL team again.
Gearon Jr is such as excuse making joke.
Sund is not that bad a basketball guy, and Drew is a pretty good coach, and I wish them well–elsewhere.
I really want this team to fail as long as these ownership people are around. Levinson is the worst but you do not hear much of him–after what happened with the team I cared most about, I could care less.
I would have fun with them gong back to 26 wins. It would be a laughing joke.
And Joe Johnson is just not a likable guy. Marvin Williams is someone no one wants.
Not a bad team, but I hate the front of the jersey because of thw owners. Feel the same about the arena too.
Disgusted
May 13th, 2012
8:00 pm
Joe Johnson is a two time mistake. Do U get it Gearon, we don;t like him.
Disgusted
May 13th, 2012
8:41 pm
Jeff—Truth be told is that there is nothing that can be done about the ownership or Joe for the next few yrs.
The ownership got what they wanted and they are staying and as for Joe, with that max contract he is fossilized here until the 2016-17 season whether we like it ot not. (I think he is under contract until then)
Disgusted
May 13th, 2012
8:45 pm
tyger–Rick Sund has not really advanced the team but has not really done anything to hurt the situation either.
I can take or leave him–who bette rwould we get?
I agree with you on Larry Drew. He did better than a good number of fans give him credit for.
Harpie
May 13th, 2012
11:34 pm
How in the world can anybody think that Drew is a good coach?! He is an IDIOT, and the worst coach EVER. He’s what’s wrong with the Hawks!!! Why do you think they keep doing the same old stupid stuff over and over and over? Because their idiot coach does nothing to teach them to do the right things, and does nothing to help them correct their mistakes. Drew SUCKS!
OldTimer
May 13th, 2012
11:42 pm
The Hawks need new ownership. If you stop going to the games then this will happen. It’s really that simple.
Tennis Rodman
May 14th, 2012
6:45 am
ESPN is killing Gearon for his comments on KG. Fire ASG.
Greg M
May 14th, 2012
7:39 am
Stop downing the Hawks, Falcons and Braves! At least Georgia have a professional team in basketball, football and baseball. If all teams move away like the Thrashers did, we all will be disappointed. It could be worse, ask the Pittburgh Pirates and Chicago Cubs!
Greg M
May 14th, 2012
7:43 am
@Tennis, why? Just because Garnett had a good game 6 doesn’t mean he is not a dirty player. Look back at the film, game 5 and 6 and see how many times ATL got a call going to the basket compared to when Boston did, especially Pierce. Look at the last play of Game 6, our player was clearly fouled, not to mention the missed call on the inbound play.
The Man
May 14th, 2012
7:54 am
Very easy to see the problems, too difficult to do anything about it. Marvin Williams is basically a spot up shooter who can’t shoot. THe main problem is Joe Johnson. He is no more than a third option on a good team. Might be better to amnesty him and get moving on. SHoot, if the hawks can trade Joe Johnson for a low first round pick, or even a second, I’d jump on it. Addition by subtraction…
Admirable SnAckBar
May 14th, 2012
7:58 am
trade Josh for Love.
Hog Wild Boars
May 14th, 2012
8:12 am
Ant player making $24 million per year like JJ better be the best player and scorer. He’s the 3rd best behind J.Smith & Horford. There’s your reason for losing.
Hog Wild Boars
May 14th, 2012
8:13 am
Garnett commits illegal picks every play on offense and its not called.
Hog Wild Boars
May 14th, 2012
8:15 am
I saw Josh Smith drive the lane twice in game 6. He had a dunk and two free throws (drew a foul). Then he never drove the lane again. All while Rondo,Pierce,and Garnett owned the paint & lanes on offense.
Peter
May 14th, 2012
8:36 am
The Hawks didn’t have a clue wasting all the additional money on Joe Johnson, is just the tip of the iceberg…..Marvin, and Sheldon Williams both busts, and how many other good players did they draft then trade ?
A 6″9″ center is not going to cut it these days ion the NBA either.
Al Horford should be able to play power forward…..what do you do with Josh then ?
Ever since the Hawks organization ripped me off in business….. I won’t spend a dime at their stadium.
Parade of Knuckleheads
May 14th, 2012
9:34 am
It would be great to see new ownership for the Hawks
PMC
May 14th, 2012
10:01 am
Mark you have essentially laid out why in this article it is fairly crazy for anyone who enjoys sports in this town to EVER go into Phillips Arena for any reason.
That the ASG owns the building is enough of a reason for me to never darken it’s doors no matter whom is performing there.
As far as I’m concerned it’s rustier than the Omni. Done with the building until they sell.
Trade
May 14th, 2012
11:41 am
Roster Moves:
Teams:
Hawks
Lakers
Raptors
Rockets
Hawks trade w/ Lakers
Hawks get: Gasol
Laker get: Josh & Marvin
Hawks trade w/Raptors
Hawks get: DeRozan
Raptors get: Zsa-Zsa
Hawks trade w/Rockets
Hawks get: Kevin Martin & Dalembert
Rockets get: Joe
Hawks Projected Lineup:
PG: Jeff Teague
SG: Kevin Martin
SF: DeRozan
PF: Al Horford
C: Pau Gasol
Mike
May 14th, 2012
11:46 am
Jeff, This Hawks team doesnt lay down like the teams under Woodson. That’s why there is cause for hope if healthy. Chicago was flat better than them last year, but Drew managed to find a solid point guard in Teague. That was after dismissing Orlando in six. Get a healthy lineup of Teague, JJ, Smith, Horford, and Williams/Hinrich and you have a lineup that should be 3rd in the East next year, provided Boston doesnt sign Howard this offseason.
Now you look at this series. This is a very successful and veteran Boston club. The Hawks played the whole series without backup center Pachulia. They played the first 3 games without Horford, their 3rd leading scorer. They played the end of game 2 and all of game 3 without their second leading scorer in Smith. All this and they still had a chance to win the series. In fact, if the owner didnt shoot his mouth off at Garnett, the Hawks take this series in 7. No way the Celts beat the Hawks without an inspired Garnett in game 6.
Mike
May 14th, 2012
11:53 am
The biggest problem with the Hawks is they dont have that one reliable star on the team. They paid JJ like he is one, but he isnt. He’s just another very good player on a roster of very good players. Like I said, I think they are 3rd best in the East if healthy. Problem is, without a true elite player, I have no idea how they beat a healthy Miami or Chicago. It means more 2nd round knockouts.
They could get rid of everyone around JJ, but unless you get Kobe for it, there isnt any point. They are pretty much stuck riding out JJ’s contract.
Hog Wild Boars
May 14th, 2012
12:56 pm
JJ should refund the Hawks about half his salary. He got paid to be a 30/10 man and became a 10/5 man. Awful.
tyger
May 14th, 2012
1:39 pm
Josh Smith trade options:
He wants a major city and MAX contract…
He wants to play with Superboy…
He wants publicity…
Sounds alot like Brooklyn to me…
I wouldnt worry so much about the market…
If the LA/NO/HOU fiasco taught us anything…
It is that “Ole’ NBA Magic” is all powerful…
And if the Grand Wizard wants it, he gets it…
So, if Stern blesses Superboy/Smoove to NJ…
They will get a Top 5 pick…and whatever else…
They need to make it happen…
I wouldnt even worry about straight up trades…
They’ll just throw names, teams, picks, in a hat…
And work it out on the back-end…
So, dont be surprised if its a 4 team/12 player deal…
leon
May 14th, 2012
6:53 pm
Some of guys call yourself fans. The hawks were screwed by the nba. You need to go back and watch game 2 and game 6 again. I blame the hawks for folding, but I blame the nba and officials for using a popularity contest to pick who plays in the finals.
Boston didn’t beat the hawks, poor marketability did. They need to stop being nice and start being mad with the way they are looked at by the league office and do something about it.
They are good, but they will never get a call if they don’t have a image that can be sold nationally by the nba. This is why David Stern screwed them. Basketball is not enough, this is still entertainment.
Disgusted
May 14th, 2012
7:06 pm
You are a whiner Leon.
Admit it, you got beat by a better team with better seasoned playoff veterans.
Go Celtics Go.
JOSH SMITH FOR 3!
May 14th, 2012
9:46 pm
I won’t even miss you fair weather fans.
bad refs!
May 14th, 2012
10:58 pm
the hawks are a lot better than boston–they got hosed big time by the celtic-loving refs who want higher tv ratings. larry drew needs to protest.
Buddy Grizzard
May 15th, 2012
1:46 am
From the beat blog:
“If Philly beats Boston – Man, this was our year for the ECF or even beyond – esp. with Bosh maybe out awhile!”
What makes you think ATL would have a snowball’s chance against PHI?
Hawk 7
May 15th, 2012
11:15 am
trade joe and josh to the knicks for melo and some cash. Then, get dwight for 1 year before he goes to LA.
Atlanta Spirit: PLEASE JUST GO AWAY!
May 15th, 2012
1:34 pm
As Atlanta Hawks fans, please tell us when we EVER got any “fair weather” with this franchise!?!
O'Brien
May 15th, 2012
3:15 pm
Look at what OKC did in the draft in a 3 year span.
2007: Kevin Durant (#2), Carl Landry (#31), Glen “big Baby” Davis (#35).
2008: Russell Westbrook (4th), Serge Ilbaka (24th).
2009: James Harden
.
Look what the ASG did in the draft over a 4 year span;
2004: Josh Childress (#6), Josh Smith (#17).
2005: Marvin Williams (#2), Salim Stoudemire (#31)
2006: Shelden Williams (#5)
2007: Al Horford (#3), Acie Law (#11)
No wonder they have been to the WCF, and have another chance to get back this year (maybe get to the NBA finals). Meanwhile, all we have to show for it is 3 appearances in the second round, where we got swept twice.
Ownership is the biggest problem. They do all the hiring.
ryan
May 15th, 2012
4:43 pm
The Hawks were screwed by the officials and Hawks fans are screwed by the ASG so what can we do to have this changed and have a owner like the Clippers have or the Nets Atlanta has had bad owners long enough with Braves and Hawks Atlanta needs to RISE UP AN HAVE YOUR VOICE HEARD !
tyger
May 15th, 2012
6:33 pm
PG Playoff Efficiency – as of May 15, 2012
Name PPG Eff
Rondo 15.0 +24.7
Paul 20.4 +23.4
Westbrook 23.2 +22.8
Parker 23.2 +20.3
Lawson 19.0 +19.0
Wade 22.3 +18.7
Holiday 16.9 +17.0
Kidd 11.5 +17.0
Conley 14.1 +15.7
Nelson 15.6 +15.2
Teague 14.0 +14.3
Chalmers 10.5 +12.8
Collison 9.0 +12.8
Sessions 10.5 +8.8
Harris 13.0 +8.3
ForrestTucker
May 16th, 2012
4:21 pm
Marvin showed a heck of a lot in this series. Marvin showed why he was drafted the #1 player in the entire draft by the Hawks. Marvin came to life and helped the Hawks win a couple of games in their series against Boston. The hawks could have beaten the celtics had they believed they were the better team, which they were. The regular season records showed who was the better team: Hawks 40-26, Celtics 39-27. THE HAWKS WERE ONE GAME BETTER THAN THE CELTICS DURING THE REGULAR YEAR, BUT THE HAWKS DOUBTED THEIR ABILITY. THE HAWKS SHOULD WATCH THE OKLAHOMA CITY THUNDER PLAY THE ENTIRE POST SEASON AND WATCH WHAT A TEAM LOOKS LIKE WHEN THEY HAVE CONFIDENCE. THEY BEAT OPPONENTS BY DOUBLE-DIGITS EVERY NIGHT. The Hawks could have scorced the Celtics by 20 points in each of their games and the Hawks should have swept the Celtics 4 straight, but the Hawks thought the Celtics were the better team, so the hawks showed a complete lack of confidence and played as though they were defeated before the bell even sounded at the opening tipoff.
JosephCollier
May 16th, 2012
4:24 pm
Marvin Williams shot the ball as good as “Pistol” Pete Maravich during the Celtics series. Marvin discovered why he was a high draft pick in his draft. Marvin also deserves to have his salary DOUBLED when the NBA season begins again this fall.
JackieGleason
May 17th, 2012
11:29 am
I was go glad to see Kobe Bryant lose last night. Both he and LaBron are great players–but they are not as good as Kevin Durant. Kevin Durant and the Thunder play the absolute BEST BRAND OF BASKETBALL I HAVE EVER SEEN. The only other team I saw in the last 30 years that was better was Magics laker SHOWTIME teams of the 80s with Kareem, Worthy and Magic. Other than that, the Thunder has shown me the most exciting brand of basketball I have ever seen in the association. I CANT WAIT UNTIL THE THUNDER ARE CROWNED CHAMPIONS OF THE BASKETBALL WORLD.
PaulWinchester
May 17th, 2012
2:36 pm
I agree “Great One”: I believe that Kevin Durant has gotten CHEATED out of the MVP for 3 straight seasons as he has been the scoring champion for 3 consecutive years. Durant is a team player and spent all summer long improving his jump shot. Now Durant is lethal from inside the half-court marker. Durant is as good a shooter as “Pistol” Pete Maravich was. But because Durant is only 23, Durant will win probably maybe 5 or 6 mvps before his career is over. KEVIN DURANT SHOULD HAVE BEEN THE MVP THIS YEAR. DURANT IS BETTER THAN LABRON EVER WILL BE. LABRON IS A SPOILED BRAT WHO HIDES WHEN CRUNCH TIME COMES BECAUSE HE IS AFRAID TO TAKE THE SHOT.
JJRodriguez
May 17th, 2012
3:08 pm
Kobe is great, Durant is great and so is LaBron. In fact the NBA is so good right now that you have at least 10 players in the league that are as good as Michael Jordan: Kevin Durant; Kobe Bryant; LaBron James, Carmello Anthony; Paul Pierce; Kevin Garnett; Ray Allen, Dirk Norwinski, Tim Duncan and Manu Ginobli. These 10 players are every bit as good as Jordan was and all should be future hall of famers some day.
BrianHansen
May 17th, 2012
3:53 pm
The Hawks are VERY CLOSE to winning a title. They have 4 guys on their team who will be future HOFers. MARVIN WILLIAMS, JOSH SMITH, AL HORFORD AND JOE JOHNSON. Joe Johnson is the second best closer in the league behind Kobe Bryant; Al Horford has been playing as good as a young Wilt Chamberlain, Josh Smith has been impacting each game as good as LaBron James; and Marvin Williams has been shooting the ball as good as Pistol Pete Maravich. I am pleased with the progress that the Hawks have been making since Mike Woodsen first coached them into the playoffs with a losing record of 37-45. GO HAWKS.
JackWilson
May 18th, 2012
11:59 am
The Miami Heat are done, through, finished, stick a fork in it. I couldnt be happier to see coach Eric Spolster and D-Wade fighting in a confrontation on the sideline; watching LaBron CHOKE at the end of games being undecided and refusing to take the last shots. My question is HOW ARE THE HEAT GOING TO WIN NOT 1, NOT 2, NOT 3, NOT 6, NOT 7 CHAMPIONSHIPS WHEN THEY CANT EVEN WIN 1. I hate the heat and I love watching them lose. The Heat are the most hated franchise in the NBA. I couldnt be happier.
Ken Strickland
May 19th, 2012
10:10 am
http://www.peachtreehoops.com/2012/5/12/3015954/atlanta-hawks-2012-season-review
Here’s something for those who insist on believing Jamal Crawford could have done more for the team than TMac, Pargo, and WGreen did combined.
Ken Strickland
May 19th, 2012
10:25 am
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1188053-atlanta-hawks-must-keep-core-players-intact
Here’s a must read for all of you TRADE FANATICS who insist we need to break this team up and start over.
Ken Strickland
May 19th, 2012
10:31 am
http://www.ajc.com/sports/atlanta-hawks/coach-gm-among-hawks-1436328.html
This is just a good informative read.
JackWilson
May 21st, 2012
12:06 pm
Jamal Crawford always went FLAT in the playoffs when he was here in atlanta. The only series in which Jamal was right was the most recent orlando series where we beat them the last time we faced the magic. Other than that, Jamal’s jumper was cold and he couldnt find his rhythm and all he did was turn the ball over and make a fool of himself. He had no choice but to leave town because jamal was easily replaced by tmac, stackhouse, and several others on the end of the bench. you add up all those players points and it still doesnt come up to jamals 20 ppg. Jamal was in it only for the money, just like joe johnson is and thats why the hawks will never have a championship contender as long as they get the wrong type of players