Braves’ progress won’t matter until they can beat Phillies
Michael Bourn was doubled off first to end the Braves' loss to Philadelphia. (Jason Getz/AJC)
Once the confetti finally settled in the aftermath of the Braves’ four-hour, 11-inning, 28-run, 36-hit, is-that-really-Tim-Hudson-grabbing-a-bat marathon win over Philadelphia the night before, the Braves were left with one painful truth Thursday: The Phillies still own them.
This doesn’t mean the Braves won’t reach the postseason this year. It doesn’t even mean they can’t win the National League East Division. But Philadelphia didn’t leave town without reaffirming the pecking order.
We may see a blur of replays of Chipper Jones’ walk-off two-run blast that ended Game 2 of the series. We may remember the pyrotechnics of Wednesday’s 15-13 victory for several years. But it was the Phillies who bounced back to win Thursday’s game 4-0. That wrapped up yet another series win over the Braves — and ultimately, that’s really the big picture.
“Somebody said at the beginning of the series that this is a rivalry,” Jones said after the loss Thursday. “It’s not a rivalry until we beat them and beat them consistently, and we go back and forth — you know, we win the division one year, they win it the next. That’s not the case. They’re clearly on top. We’ve got a ways to go. Can we play with them? Yeah. Can we beat them? Yeah. We just have to go out and do it consistently.”
The Braves logically view Philadelphia as the team to beat in the East. Washington’s in first place? Yeah. That’s cute. Over the past five seasons, the Phillies have won five division titles, two pennants and a World Series. The Nationals have won bupkis.
The worst thing from the Braves’ standpoint is that no matter how strong they may think they are, there’s only one team that consistently buries them.
The Phillies had won eight consecutive meetings until Wednesday night’s marathon, so it’s now nine of 10. They have won nine of the past 13 series against the Braves. Since 2008, Philly’s record against Atlanta is 46-29. Over the past seven years, the Phillies have won five season series, the Braves (2009) won with one split (2007).
Not a rivalry.
Let’s not forgot the inglorious ending to last season. It was the Phillies who whacked the Braves on the head with a shovel and pushed them in the hole. They came to Turner Field at the end of September with the East already clinched and nothing to gain but the pleasure of tormenting Atlanta. So they did. They won Game 1 4-2; Game 2 7-1; and Game 3 4-3 in 13 innings. The Braves then sat slumped in their chair, looking at the television and watching St. Louis defeat Houston 8-0 to win the wild card.
These are not scars that will easily heal.
The Phillies are only a .500 team (13-13) through 26 games. Do the Braves view that as significant? No.
“Washington is good, the Mets are good, but until you knock the team off that won it the year before, and the year before that, it doesn’t matter what kind of start they got off to,” catcher David Ross said. “Until we beat them, they’re the team that holds the crown.”
On Thursday, the Braves received a great start from Randall Delgado (eight innings, two runs). But it didn’t matter because the day after making the Phillies’ pitching staff scream, “Uncle” with 15 runs and 19 hits, they made Joe Blanton look like Grover Cleveland Alexander (zero runs, three hits, all singles). The game lasted only two hours, two minutes.
The Braves looked tired and play tired. Didn’t the Phillies have the same turnaround as the Braves?
“Their catcher [Brian Schneider] told me their bus [departure] time from the stadium last night was 12:10 [a.m.],” Ross said. “The first pitch [Thursday] was 12:10, so the game was exactly 12 hours later.”
One team clearly responded better.
Ross again: “This is one hump we have to get over.”
Until the Braves get over the hump of Philadelphia, little else will matter. Because as great as Wednesday’s victory was, what matters most is that the Phillies came to town and won twice.
By Jeff Schultz
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135 comments Add your comment
Gman
May 3rd, 2012
4:21 pm
Last night’s dramatics aside. Phils take 2 of 3 and Braves lose first series since opener w Mets. Need to win division games!
VABravesFan
May 3rd, 2012
4:23 pm
That’s right – but still a few games with the Phils to go – we can get it turned around.
Dubvee
May 3rd, 2012
4:25 pm
Could it be my very first first?
Dubvee
May 3rd, 2012
4:25 pm
Not close
cloudodust
May 3rd, 2012
4:31 pm
JS : You are correct. Let’s not forget the Nats and the rest of the East but the Phillies, by all means. I want to see another Division Banner out in center. Growing tired of playing for a wild card.
beone
May 3rd, 2012
4:39 pm
Frankly, this year is getting ready for the future. If we do well, great but I don’t expect us to win the NL crown. Now use Chipper’s $ wisely, allow the youngsters to mature another year, the Phillies get a year older and next year and for the following few years, we could be really really good. Can be, let’s hope we will be!
eastbound and down
May 3rd, 2012
4:44 pm
the phillies of today are trying to replicate the braves of the 1990s-early 2000s. strong starting pitiching and timely hitting. but, they are the 2nd oldest team in the majors. we will see how this progresses.
JSS
May 3rd, 2012
4:47 pm
Grover Cleveland Alexander sighting!!! Man, we keep that dude’s name alive!!!
Stinger 2
May 3rd, 2012
4:56 pm
The Braves have to play each division rival 16 or 18 times The bad news is that our record is 3-6 now against the Mets and Phillies combined. The good news is we have plenty or games and time to turn this record around. .
1eyedJack
May 3rd, 2012
5:00 pm
“The Braves logically view Philadelphia as the team to beat in the East. Washington’s in first place? Yeah. That’s cute. Over the past five seasons, the Phillies have won five division titles, two pennants and a World Series. The Nationals have won bupkis.”
The Nats have been a real thorn in the Braves the last couple of years. They need to beat the snot out of them fellas.
Matt
May 3rd, 2012
5:08 pm
Last night was great, but today erased the euphoria. The Braves need to stop making mediocre pitchers look like All-Stars.
Tumbledown
May 3rd, 2012
5:11 pm
The Phillies and Cardinals have been the class of the NL for the past six seasons. The Braves have nine games this month with these two teams. They gotta take at least four or five of these games to show that they can compete with the Big Boys and for the long haul. These two teams are supremely confident against the Braves. It took a superhuman effort for the Braves to get even one victory against the Phillies. I am not confident that the Braves really have what it takes.
Maestro
May 3rd, 2012
5:13 pm
Indeed the Philadelphia has the Braves number for some reason. By allowing them to win two out of three without Howard and Utley in their lineup, the Braves are allowing the Phillies to embolden themselves of being the big brother who slaps the little brother around. Should have taken care of business especially today. It would have sent a message that it is a new day.
No. 1 Braves Fan
May 3rd, 2012
5:19 pm
No need to panic Jeff. You will only stir up the naysayers. Don`t we have 15 or 16 games left to play agains the Phillies?
Delgado throws 8 strong innings but overshadowed by Blanton in Braves’ 4-0 … – Washington Post - Bowie TX Rocks
May 3rd, 2012
5:21 pm
[...] Atlanta Journal Constitution [...]
ACE
May 3rd, 2012
5:30 pm
This should have been called GIVE AWAY DAY instead of get away day. A pitiful performance. That is the difference between the Phils and Braves. The Phils lose a heart breaker with their best pitcher on the mound and rebound the next day to take the series.
NickGranite
May 3rd, 2012
5:38 pm
Phillies angle aside which I agree with completely, we have all seen repeatedly the mail-ins on getaway day. Seems almost everyone had a party to get to by the extreme lack of patience shown at the plate. Delgado got cheated and I would sure have hated to have been a paying customer today.
danny
May 3rd, 2012
5:44 pm
I am shocked that an AJC columist writes a panic article within the first month of the season.
Gene
May 3rd, 2012
6:08 pm
I remember seeing Roger Clemens pitch against the Braves when he was at Houston. I think it was a playoff game. The Braves’ hitters were intimidated and seemed afraid that Roger would throw at them. They remain so against the Phillies, and Howard and Uttley weren’t even there. Jeff has not written a panic article. His point is true.
Joey
May 3rd, 2012
6:30 pm
“I want to see another Division Banner out in center.”
*****************************************
Not me, cloudodust. I’d like to get one of these “real” banners or pennants – a NL or better yet, a WS.
rich
May 3rd, 2012
6:36 pm
Blanton threw less than 90 pitches, I believe. Braves hitters were in a hurry to get out of town. At least Jeff is telling it like it is. Braves announcers, SImpson and Caray and company made it sound like ‘who cares’. Simpson said something to the effect that yeah, it’s a loss, but they saved the bullpen – that could help them in Colorado. If the whole point of today was save the bullpen….then why didnt they just forfeit….oh, wait – it looked like they did
Dean
May 3rd, 2012
7:01 pm
It should also be remembered that the past several years the Braves owned the series in April and May and got whacked in the series that really mattered later in the year. Here is to hoping that it turns the other way this year. We have to stay healthy and keep improving. If so, we should be able to play much better in September this year.
Also have to realize that after the loss last night for Philly they had more of an edge for today. It happens all the time. Two tired teams, one had an edge that got them over the hump. The Braves just played tired.
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater
May 3rd, 2012
7:06 pm
Good call JS- a pathetic outing today. i’m sure they were still hungover from last night, but when has stopped anyone from getting back on their game the next day??
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater
May 3rd, 2012
7:08 pm
JS- would you compare the phillies owning the braves to the saints owning the falcons?? i mean phillies were w/o a few of their key players and the saints will be w/o some of theirs- will anything change this year??
Delbert D.
May 3rd, 2012
7:24 pm
It’s not like they were swept, Jeff.
iTiSi
May 3rd, 2012
7:25 pm
Finally, an AJC sportswriter who doesn’t “paint a rosy picture” no matter what the circumstances or his allegiance. JS went with his conscience and laid it all out there for everyone to read. Some people have difficulty facing facts and realism, but it’s right there for all to see. I have reached the conclusion after taking last night and today into consideration that the Braves rely on 60% luck and 40% skill. That explains some of the wins and a few winning streaks hear and there. It has to be the other way around. Also, when the “main spoke in the wheel” is weak or broken, it just will not work. That “spoke” is the top dog in the dugout who makes all the decisions.
PMC
May 3rd, 2012
7:25 pm
If they play like they did today Oil Can Boyd could beat them.
Absolutely pathetic effort. Yeah it’s a long season. They played like they were ridiculously hungover and wanted to be in bed not at the park.
iTiSi
May 3rd, 2012
7:28 pm
Should be “here” toward the end, not “hear”. Where did that come from?
1991 braves
May 3rd, 2012
7:34 pm
Braves are pretenders this year, just like they have been the past 4 or 5 years. They have a terrible manager, they have very inconsistent starting rotation. You never know what you are going to get from Hanson, Beachy, Minor, and Hudson is coming off of back surgery. Hanson is probably the biggest head case of the starting rotation now. This guy was a number 1 prospect, and he has been dreadful since his rookie season. And to make matters even worse, the bullpen is very inconsistent this year. O’flarity has given up as many runs this year 7, as he did after 72 innings last year. Batters are hitting over .300 against him. Venters and Kimbrell both have inflated E.R.A.s compared to last year. Both are over .250 and last year they were both under .200. And even Medlen is inconsistent after coming off of surgery. Too many question marks in the pitching to win consistently this year. As far as competing against the Phils, there is no way this team has the maturity or the talent to play with the Phils. Not to mention the Phils have a superior manager. Keep in mind the phils dominated the braves with their 2 best players on the bench the whole series. Wait till next year braves fans, starting to sound alot like UGA football.
Delbert D.
May 3rd, 2012
7:40 pm
Lets turn to more interesting stuff, like the pending collapse of Tom Benson’s empire. To be in New Orleans in possession of over $1 billion strongly suggests something, given that city’s sordid history of organized crime. Who really sponsored that bounty idea? Who would profit? Are there still some remaining tentacles from the Carlos Marcello family? Back in the ’60s, the FBI said he (Marcello, not Benson) was just a tomato grower, but surely they don’t believe that now. I’m not a real conspiracy theorist like Mel Gibson in that movie; I’m just playing with this for fun.
dawg4u
May 3rd, 2012
7:59 pm
I have to agree with JS on this article because once again we become the Phil’s favorite whipping boys. Halladay has been average this season so far (we did get to him), and Lee is on the DL and the other regulars of last year are performing poorly and we still lose two out of three at home to a team that had been struggling. This coupled with the fact that Howard and Utley are still disabled and it makes you wonder why we are so owned by them. We get shut out by Blanton of all starters after getting to Halladay last night. We also have more trouble with Kendrick than any other team and he is a fifth starter for them. However, other than that at least we are still ahead of them in the standings albeit it’s only May!
LakeDawg
May 3rd, 2012
8:16 pm
You are correct, Jeff. However, I like the comments by Chipper and Ross. No denial there, just a resolve to change the dynamics of the relationship with the Phillies.
Nativebird
May 3rd, 2012
8:31 pm
So correct. The sole question for this franchise in the foreseeable future-is simply two words: Jason Heyward.
P B Orr
May 3rd, 2012
8:51 pm
It’s barely May. We need not pee ourselves just yet.
D-bo
May 3rd, 2012
9:06 pm
Surprised and shocked you haven’t given your take on concussions
In light of juniors death.
What’s going on?
Tom G
May 3rd, 2012
9:16 pm
Don’t forget Chipper and McCann(the two best bats on the team) were sitting out today!! In my opinion that was huge! Also Henski(RF) was sitting and although not a regular, was red-hot at the plate while JHeyward was getting better.
GB
May 3rd, 2012
9:52 pm
The Phillies in addition to not having Utley and Howard als set their best hitter this year – Ruiz, who had a lot of RBIs yesterday – I don’t remember exactly, but it seemed like everytime I looked he was getting a hit
iTiSi
May 3rd, 2012
9:55 pm
The big question is WHY was Chipper and McCann sitting out today? That all comes back to the manager!
Billy Django
May 3rd, 2012
10:01 pm
First?
mace224
May 3rd, 2012
10:10 pm
Francisco, Hernandez, Delgado. Is this the Miami Marlins?
BobDawg
May 3rd, 2012
10:12 pm
JEFF, I read the Philly newspapers a lot and from the area during my youth…. They have deep,deep pockets at $180 Million payroll and sell out each game. Great Cable regional network and Comcast is based there. They have bought their pitching staff and can replenish as well as Boston or the Yankees… We are competitive but geez, Jeff.. you know what is going on and the Braves are at a huge disadvantage as the Phils can acquire a Cliff Lee whenever they want to…We have to rest Chipper when we go Night/Day game next day,. McCann the same way…Ruiz sat out today’s game also….
UGA Proud
May 3rd, 2012
10:16 pm
If we’re lucky, the Braves will finish third in the division. Otherwise, it’s the cellar. Even my brother, a die-hard Braves fan some 1,000 miles away, has started a Fire Frank Wren campaign. It’s a sad thing to see 40-year-old Chipper attempt to carry the team. Meantime, McWhiff is worthless in a pinch. If the game’s on the line, the guy couldn’t make contact with a beach ball.
mace224
May 3rd, 2012
10:17 pm
Fredi, Juan Francisco is not the answer at third base.
Joe Adcock
May 3rd, 2012
10:29 pm
@mace224. Might as well be. Going nowhere fast. Going down that nowhere road. I thought Delgado pitched a good ball game against a provenly great baseball team. Braves are still pretender want-to-bes. What else is new?
gcs
May 3rd, 2012
11:19 pm
@Schultz
You haven’t written a thing about the Hawks since their belly flop in Game 2.
Still think Larry Drew deserves a raise?
Will Robinson
May 4th, 2012
12:11 am
Face it, at this point in the season the Phillies are clearly the better team.
GLE
May 4th, 2012
1:22 am
the Brave are a jeckle/Hyde team. You never know which one is going to show up. they seem to lack the discipline to play consistantly and are willing to accept excuses for poor play. Thay can play with anybody on any given night. But clearly don’t come to the ballpark every nite.
Gritsfalcon
May 4th, 2012
1:30 am
Jeff Schultz–I read my mind! I couldn’t have said it any better!
BBQ is good with Onions Mix in
May 4th, 2012
4:36 am
Look good out there after the great come back n tv folks kissy butt rosey sayin this will start a winnin streak….suprise suprise like hemmoriods flarin they reverse to the 1972 braves no hittin just Pitchin at times…and now we go to Play at Coors field so much for that folks and next we ride to st,louis the team we help get in wildcard n win world series the fans will be there to show atlanta fans that they can find there Ball park always with near sold out busch staduim….Maybe cards will honor atlanta with fake world series rings to them!
BBQ is good with Onions Mix in
May 4th, 2012
4:39 am
after we done in colorado n st;louis and chicago (who still lookin for a world series) and the beat down in coors n busch stadium we wake up and be 18-16 after cubs series in a week…!
longtimefan
May 4th, 2012
6:17 am
As predicted, let us lose one series(to Phillies no less) and the negative comments start. UGA Proud, it sounds like you WANT the Braves to lose. The hitting has clearly exceeded expectation, leading the NL in runs scored. Cut the young pitchers a little slack. Most are only in second or third full year; it takes time for a pitcher to mature and be consistent.
Scott Brantley
May 4th, 2012
6:55 am
Losing series in division is flat-out unacceptable!
DetroitBraves
May 4th, 2012
7:08 am
I don’t like Fredi Gonzalez much, as Jeff S. certainly knows, but it’s not unusual to sit your starting catcher in a day game following a night game, nor it is unusual to sit your 40-year-old third baseman with bad knees. Personally, I appreciate Fredi seeing the broader picture in this case. It’s something he did not do last year so much when he extended the young relievers early on. I would like them to have won the game but don’t have much complaint with Fredi’s decisions in this case.
MitchC
May 4th, 2012
7:48 am
Jeff, even before the infamy of what happened at the end of last year, I dont think anyone expected the Braves to win the East.
Bottom line: The Phillies are better, talent wise than us. We dont have Roy Halliday, or Cole Hamels. In the years that we won fourteen straight division titles, we always had guys like Tom Glavine, Greg Maddux, and John Smoltz. Guys like that are the reason teams win divisions.
A realistic goal for the Braves would be the wild card. With out team, we should certainly be able to get that. however, after what happened at the end of last season, the fact that some of our key players are old, and the fact that Chipper, even though this is his last year, is always injury prone, we can take nothing for granted.
My hope for the 2012 Braves is 90 odd plus wins, and the wild card. Anything else would be gravy, in my view, and, while I wouldnt expect it to happen, as we know, with the Marlins two WS wins, when teams get into postseason, anything can happen. Do you think the Mralins will give back their two World Series banners, just because they gained entry as the wild card. They earned the banners, once they got there.
trademark
May 4th, 2012
7:52 am
I agree Mr. Schultz. That is all.
SimpleDawg
May 4th, 2012
8:02 am
That was the shortest @#^%!&+ MLB game I’ve ever attended. The hometown nine had nothing for Blanton. Nothing.
As Mammy said, “Just mules in horse clothing.”
NORRIS CHUCK
May 4th, 2012
8:04 am
Bottom line,
The Phillies are better than the Braves….even without Utley and Howard, their lineup from top to bottom is better period.
They have guys that hack and make contact with pitches, making pitchers work for a complete inning. Sooner or later a guys going to make that fat pitch and they make them pay.
And as for the Braves pitching, that staff is and has been overrated for some time now.
Blackberry Cobbler
May 4th, 2012
8:12 am
The Phils took 2 out of 3 without their best players.
Nuff said.
Another thing, it doesn’t help much when you have Chipper and McCann both sitting out of the lineup at the same time. That’s some real manager skills there Freddi.
DetroitBraves
May 4th, 2012
8:25 am
We’ll have to wait and see what versions of Utley and Howard the Phillies get when and if they make it back. But as of this moment, the Braves have both a better record and, more importantly, a better run differential than the Phillies. Yes, small samples and all but at least a larger sample than 3 games. Admittedly, it’s frustrating to lose to a banged-up Phillies team (remember, Cliff Lee is on the DL as well) but I’m not sure the sky is falling just yet.
Atticus
May 4th, 2012
8:35 am
Fredi sucks. Same BS. You don’t rest your two best hitters on the same freaking day! Mac is young he can do a night/day back to back. My gosh its a joke how this guy manages. No sense of urgency. You just won a huge game….take the momentum and at least keep your most consistent hitter in the lineup, you can rest him the first game is Colorado. They were lifeless at the plate. It really makes me sick. I am a native Atlantan and love the Braves but its hard to root for a team that is managed by a hat tipper. And if I have to listen to Chip Caray much longer……he says it must’ve been the late night before that cause our bats to sleep. Considering we played two different players and the Phillies didn’t seem to be affected…..please get a better announcer than that guy.
Call It Like It Is
May 4th, 2012
8:35 am
If your a Braves fan, fine go enjoy the games and root your team on. However these guys are average at best and will choke at the end of the year as they do every year. Just the way it is.
Blackberry Cobbler
May 4th, 2012
8:36 am
As usual, Detriot Brave, the problem is the Braves organization never ever sees the sky falling until the crap hits them in the eye.
furmanuga
May 4th, 2012
8:58 am
You guys have a pro baseball team that has consistently been a challenger for the postseason for over 20 years and you bash the team like this. Go root for Philly or some other front runner team and just stop commenting on the Braves. As always, they will give us a season where they are competitive and will be in the thick of things throughout the season. How many other franchises can say they’ve done that for this long a period of time. Atlanta fans are the absolute worst!
ajc sports fan
May 4th, 2012
9:06 am
Good job Jeff..I agree! Braves just not on Phillies level yet.
Highlands
May 4th, 2012
9:23 am
The Phillies have the second-highest payroll in MLB (174 million) and are almost 60M ahead of the second-highest NL team. It is difficult to compete with the economics of the game (Billy Beane and the A’s haven’t done much lately, have they?). That being said, let’s admit that these were bad losses and that the Braves have no excuse for that BS “hangover” loss. One win on a Wednesday night is NOT the World Series, gentleman: start showing up to work EVERY DAY.
meh
May 4th, 2012
9:28 am
so what you’re sayin Schultzy is that when the Phils starting spending and Braves quit spending the Phils started wolly bopping the snot outta the Braves.
bvilebaron
May 4th, 2012
9:28 am
1991 Braves:
I realize that the bottom line is that the Braves lost 2 out of 3 to the Phillies and 9 out of the last 10 dating back to last year. However, you and I must have watched a different series the last 3 days if you feel the Phillies “dominated” the Braves. The lost the first game 4-2 and the last game 4-0 (with 2 runs tacked on in the 9th). Either of those games could have gone either way. Oh and last i checked the Braves were still ahead of the Phillies in the standings. Still a long way to go folks.
Spanky Tillman
May 4th, 2012
9:41 am
Joe Blanton the Phillies 5th starter made the Braves offense look anemic. No excuse for not scoring one damn run in a 9 inning game. Same old loser Braves looking up to their daddy Phillies who own them…
Spanky Tillman
May 4th, 2012
9:43 am
Chipper got a day off today why did he need a day off yesterday ?
Sonny Jackson
May 4th, 2012
9:44 am
Oh no, the Braves lost a couple of games… fire everyone, even the ushers!!
You people crack me up… it must be incredible to work with perfect people like you.
Braves fan since '66
May 4th, 2012
9:58 am
JS – I agree with you 100% about the Braves appearing tired. As I watched the game, I had the distinct feeling that they just wanted to get past the early afternoon game as soon as possible and get out of town, with or without a win. They made Blanton look like Greg Maddux, by swinging repeatedly at pitches early in the count and not making him work. He only threw 88 pitches in 9 innings, which I would bet is a personal best for him, and he also appeared to be aided by an ump with a more than generous strike zone. No excuses though — the Bravos made him look much better than he really is. Very disappointing as they failed to compete in a game that would have set the tone for the rest of the season series and meant a two-game swing in the early season standings. Games like this will come back to haunt them later in the season. Home field advantage??? Hardly, with a 3-4 homestand. At this point, I’d rather see them away from Turner Field….
Brave Hokie
May 4th, 2012
10:20 am
It is easy: the Phillies have ‘male’ genitala, forthemostpart, the Braves do not… {period}
coach13
May 4th, 2012
10:35 am
The Braves are unfortuantely getting a taste of their own medicine. THey dominated the 90’s with starting pitching, and even more so when they had 3 future HOF as their 1,2, and 3. THe Braves are a better club top to bottom but if they can’t get past Halladay, Hamels, and Lee (Blanton is a #2 on almost every other club) it won’t matter.
THere is becoming a little bit of the Fla/UGA psyche going on too. It’s getting to be more in their heads than the talent on the field.
Tweeters & Woofers
May 4th, 2012
10:36 am
Phillies better than Braves and they are missing their 2 best hitters Utley & Howard. Wait, that’s right the Braves wanted to make it fair yeseterday and sat Chipper & McCann (their 2 best hitters)… Can we get a manager ? Hello ?
Tweeters & Woofers
May 4th, 2012
10:38 am
Yeseterday is Southern for yesterday.
Tweeters & Woofers
May 4th, 2012
10:39 am
Chipper & McCann at 40% is better than Francisco & Ross at 100 %….
Dumb Dawgs
May 4th, 2012
10:42 am
The greatest closer in baseball history is done for the season.
Tweeters & Woofers
May 4th, 2012
10:43 am
Braves should act like they’ve been there. If they went out and got smashed drinking because they barely won a slugfest then they deserve to be the 4th best. Grow up.
Tweeters & Woofers
May 4th, 2012
10:44 am
Dennis Eckersley got hurt ? Or was it Trevor Hoffman ?
Don
May 4th, 2012
10:47 am
ignore it — Ignore It – IGNORE IT:
pretend – Pretend – PRETEND.
Why do the Braves and the WRITERS – IGNORE their MOST SIGNIFICANT PROBLEM – PRETEND that it does NOT EXIST.
Everyone in baseball knows that Pitching is the “Name Of The Game” – the most significant and determining factor in winning.
Yet the fact that in the 6 or 7 years since Leo left as Pitching Coach — of all the large number of different Starting Pitchers the Braves have had – almost ALL OF THEM (who have been in the rotation for any length of time) have ended up being INJURED.
Just this season, we have FOUR of the FIVE Starters from last year coming off injuries (counting Medlen who was a Starter when he was injured). Problem is that (unlike position players) injured Pitchers many times (perhaps most times) do NOT return to their former effectiveness.
True the Braves have a wealth of ADDITIONAL young Pitching talent – which with our existing Starters from last season – should have guaranted the Braves being competitive for years to come.
IS THIS SITUATION GOING TO BE ALLOWED TO CONTINUE UNTIL ALL OF THIS IS DESTROYED???
WHY DO THE WRITTERS IGNORE THIS PROBLEM AND REFUSE TO ADDRESS IT???
Don
May 4th, 2012
10:51 am
Blanton threw only 88 pitches in nine innings. UNBELIEVABLE. This was not a star pitcher, this was Blanton. I thought we had a new hitting coach who was going to teach and demand a winning approach to hitting – This certainly does NOT INDICATE that.
DawgDad
May 4th, 2012
11:36 am
The Braves roster is populated with players who do SOMETHING well enough to entice Management to embrace them as a solution, overlooking (at least according to their rhetoric) the obvious glaring downsides.
Basstringerfish
May 4th, 2012
11:37 am
I didn’t even read the article. The headline was enough for me.
I like where we are and where we are going, but just like the Giants and Pirates back in the day, until you beat the guy on top of the hill, nothing else matters. We play them 15 more times…
Bill Dent
May 4th, 2012
11:54 am
The Braves simply “mailed in” the afternoon game . No other way to put it.They get efforts like the 15 to 13 game with comebacks maybe twice a season. The rest of the time I know that if they are three runs back in the sixth inning I can go to bed early. Check it out. Most of the time watching this team is like watching grass grow.
Tip Your Cap
May 4th, 2012
11:56 am
Bob Dawg has it right. The problem can be summed up in one word: Money. As in payroll, which equals veterans and depth. There is a slim margin of error when you are competing with a team that has twice your payroll. Consider the salaries of the Braves starters. Take out Chipper and Uggla and what have you got for big dollar salaries? The Phillies can lose Lee, Howard and Utley for weeks at a time and still compete because they have the depth on the bench, or they go out and get it. The Braves will not compete at a high level on a regular basis until they get back to where they used to be in terms of relative salary numbers. And as for the revenue, if they invest and make a commitment, the fans will come. Right now, the fans are too jaded and skeptical of the results, which have become too predictable.
SR
May 4th, 2012
12:13 pm
Well said, well written Mr. Schultz.
Chris
May 4th, 2012
12:50 pm
DawgDad and other hit it right on the money. The TV minions and Chuck Turnoff act as if they’re covering a championship caliber team while splitting with the Pirates and losing a series against a struggling Philly team. Very mediocre…….no way around it.
Heisenberg
May 4th, 2012
2:03 pm
I am a bit concerned the past week against teams struggling offensively (Pitt/Philly) coming into the series, and they used Braves pitching to break out. It used to be Braves hitters making journeymen pitchers look like future HOFers. Now the pitching staff has shown they too can make mediocre offensive teams look like murderers row. Need to stop playing to the level of the competetion and bring the intensity every day. Sometimes I wonder if the Braves are channelling their inner Atlanta Hawks.
Here it is....
May 4th, 2012
2:06 pm
Bobby is too soft on these players…Shoot I mean Fredi….Lets face it..Booby Cox is still in control…and that is the problem. But we’ll hang tight and see what happens…..
cdog
May 4th, 2012
3:37 pm
old school, right on mr. shultz! and beat the whole national league east. it” a reflection on the manager and the losing attitude and lack of competitiveness displayed by him and most of the players.
jfreak13713
May 4th, 2012
3:41 pm
Braves starting pitching will due them in at some point. Don’t get me wrong their starting pitching is good but its just not great nor do they have even one dominate starter. They are all pitchers who rely on control and movement and that will win during regular season but post seasons is different. Hope I’m wrong but I am not impressed with their starting pitching to this point. Maybe Hudson changes my mind??
JeanE
May 4th, 2012
4:37 pm
Agreed but too early this season to freak about it YET. I do wish he’s played MattE D against Blanton, even though he’s a righty, MattE hit him last time they played. But NOOO, Fredi sticks to the whole “Diaz can’t hit righties” philosophy. Fat Juan didn’t do jack against Blanton. Why are they so afraid to let Martin play 3rd sometimes, afraid he’ll miss it so much he won’t be happy going back to LF???? These Bravos definitely are hot/cold and very streaky but they seem to really enjoy eachother so I’m willing to see how it goes. Get them Rockies!! And let MattE play against Father Time, Jamie Moyer!!!
Roja
May 4th, 2012
5:01 pm
Looks like we may not have to beat the Phillies. Not many .500 teams make it to the post season (except in the NBA and NFL)
Roja
May 4th, 2012
5:07 pm
Blanton had to step up…. Halliday certainly can’t handle us this year. He was 107-0 with 4 runs of support but couldn’t hold the Bravos even though he had a 6 run lead. By the way, how many World Series Rings do Lee and Halliday have between them?? One less than Chipper
Disgusted
May 4th, 2012
5:46 pm
We might have got to Halliday in the second game of the series, but Tommy Hanson was no great shkes in that game and Tommy Hanson is not what he is cracked up to be.
When has he won a big signifigant game that was a season defining game.
It was Derek Lowe who saved the WC spot in 2010 and where was Tommy H down the stretch in 2011? Oh, right, on the DL.
Great pitcher Hanson is not, when he accomplishes half of what Halliday has accomplished then he can be mentioned in the ballpark with the game’s accomplishers.
I am disappointed in what Hanson has become after that nice rookie yr. Guess when he does get it together, Liberty will be too cheep to pay him so we have to go to other undeveloped kids.
Bad cycle, bad ownership, bad manager and perpetual mediocrity.
Disgusted
May 4th, 2012
5:53 pm
“Take out Chipper and Uggla and what have you got for big dollar salaries? The Phillies can lose Lee, Howard and Utley for weeks at a time and still compete because they have the depth on the bench, or they go out and get it. The Braves will not compete at a high level on a regular basis until they get back to where they used to be in terms of relative salary numbers. And as for the revenue, if they invest and make a commitment, the fans will come. Right now, the fans are too jaded and skeptical of the results, which have become too predictable.”
Tip your cap—under this ownership there is mistrust that the Braves will invest and make the commitment they used to. There is a trust gulf between the fans and this ownership.
And that is part of the cynicisim fans like myself have. And this particular team is relying too much on young pitchers like Delgado and Minor who might be good someday but are in their learning stages. I am disappointed in them, and when they do get good, guess what–they probably go elsewhere to get paid.
And when Chipper and Lowe’s money come off the books at the end of this yr do you really trust this ownership to replace that with above average quality talent. The price is going up.
Looking at this off season, the more I see of Liberty Media the less I trust them. And that TV deal makes things worse, even for a new owner is this team an attractive investment?
Baseball is damed in Atlanta until the TV deal is up
dawg4u
May 4th, 2012
7:03 pm
Confucius say – “It is better to pee yourself in September than in May.”
extremus
May 4th, 2012
7:11 pm
Maybe this should be a “natural rivalry” series since most of the Braves ownership are very likely Rockies fans.
Skeezix
May 4th, 2012
7:15 pm
Losing this series at home was very disappointing-especially the way the Fillies have thumbed their noses at the Braves at the end of the last two seasons. It shows that we haven’t turned the corner yet. Most disconcerting was the poor performance by the Braves pitchers–starters and relievers.
Anybody else think Tommy was tipping his pitches in the first game? It seemed like the Fillies batters knew when that curve ball was coming and just waited on it.
Skeezix
May 4th, 2012
7:19 pm
AJC please get rid of that annoying Meebo junk at the bottom of the screen!
FSUBrave
May 4th, 2012
7:38 pm
the phils look alot like the 90s braves with a dominant rotation, and we look alot like teh phillies of the 90s…we’ve reversed roles with them….we are going to need another stud bopper before we can compete with them…if you look back over the last couple of years, the nationals have owned the braves also…the nats have the best chance to unseat them this year
Disgusted
May 4th, 2012
8:16 pm
I agree that the Phils look like the 90’s Braves, but the Braves are a tad better than those 90’s Phillie teams.
The Nats are the sleeper in the division and when the change of the guard in the NL East comes, the Nats are going to have a substantial run. And their owners have shown that they are not afraid to make the investment, first they invested in the system and now they will get a FA or a veteran player. They may not spend Phillie money, but they will be bigger players than us.
The Marlins are fools gold and the Mets, hey, its NY and they won’t be down forever but they really need to focus on the system.
Third place is about right for the Braves this yr with 83-85 W’s and that will take progress from the kid pitchers.
Tip Your Cap
May 4th, 2012
8:49 pm
Disgusted, I can certainly understand the cynical fans, because I’m one of them! And it’s not just too much youth on the pitching staff, it’s at first base, right field, shortstop, in the bullpen,and who’s going to be at third next year? On top of that, you have a second baseman playing left field… all of this designed to save the bucks. Many of these guys could pan out at some point, but to expect it all at once is blowing smoke up the fans’ posteriors. The more I watch, the more I see the Braves morphing into the Royals, or the Pirates, developmental teams for the rest of MLB. They hang on to the good young players they develop until they can make more money, then let them go, or at best “rent” a veteran for a year or two. Let’s see where Bourn winds up next year and who is in center for the Braves. Pretty sad.
UGAFurman
May 5th, 2012
1:19 am
WE just gained that game back we lost from the phils yesterday you jackwagons!
Rogers
May 5th, 2012
10:12 am
Jeff, good points. I would also say that based on past years, the Nationals also own the Braves. In fact, they owned the Braves the last few years of being the Expos.
DetroitBraves
May 5th, 2012
11:00 am
I wouldn’t mind the Braves spending more to give themselves a better chance to win, but they are 16th in the majors according to a USA Today report. About right in the middle, which is nearly one-to-one with their 15th ranked attendance in 2011. The Reds, Nats, and Rays are all below them – with each picked by several publications to contend. The Blue Jays and Rockies also have respectable rosters with lower salaries. I guess the point is that while it may well be easier to contend with a top 5 payroll, a 16th ranked payroll does not preclude you from being competitive. For example there’s, well, the Atlanta Braves.
P Rose
May 5th, 2012
11:22 am
Chipper: “Can we beat them? Yeah.”
Chipper, shut up!
As a leader (on the field), and as a hitter, we love ya. As a spokesman, not so much. These kinds of comments are why the rest of the league hates the Braves. It’s why the Phillies would play each game of a meaningless (to them) series, just to knock out the team with the big mouth.
BullDogMike
May 5th, 2012
11:33 am
Atlanta can’t keep counting on other teams to take out the Phillies for them. That’s all they have been doing now for five years. The talent is pretty even on both clubs. Phillies have more depth at starting pitching, and Braves have deeper pen. Other than that, it’s pretty even. Braves just have it in their heads that they are jinxed or something when they play each other. They need to play like they actually hate Phillies, maybe that would help…
TechRon
May 5th, 2012
1:14 pm
Jeff, you are correct. Braves are much improved but still a 2nd place team. Last years team had no class. This year’s edition is better, but still not good enough to stay with the Phils. Same awful ownership, Front office, field manager. What a lack of character to collapse like they did last September! They absolutely laid down in this Phillies series in games 1 and 3. I can believe that they will finish 2nd in the division, though. Gosh, do they need to get rid of Fredi Gonzalez!
Instant Dawgma
May 5th, 2012
1:28 pm
Wow, another game like Wednesday’s! Braves are becoming comeback kids. Wish they would start taking leads first and keep it.
it's true
May 5th, 2012
1:34 pm
Glad the Braves were on last night to watch instead of another Hawks debacle.
Wouldn’t watch the Hawks even if Braves weren’t on. More intelligent watching paint dry than watching an NBA game.
Braves will be there
May 5th, 2012
1:37 pm
When does the added wild card team go into effect? This year?
They're winning, quit complaining
May 5th, 2012
1:57 pm
“Huggy” Freeman had to stretch to wrap around Hinske last night.
Kelly
May 5th, 2012
2:47 pm
Headline is pure hyperbole, but I guess that’s the business you’re in. Chipper is right. Of course they need to beat them consistently. Obviously. That said, I’m heartened by what I’ve seen this year. It hasn’t been perfect. They’ve been a bit streaky. And when it comes to Philly, they’re probably over-matched talent-wise. They’re improving and their youth is evident. However, their progress is also evident. Glad that athletes don’t think about things on those hyperbolic terms. Otherwise, the Braves should just pack up their gear and go fishing.
D-Man
May 5th, 2012
2:51 pm
We’ll get the Phillies soon enough. It’s wayyyyyyy to early to write off our ability to beat the Phillies. They’re not getting any younger or healthier. If not for that marathon very exciting thriller in game 2 leaving the whole team gassed (and fans), we may have beaten them game 3. It’s just May AND just the 1st meeting with the Phils, don’t panic yet. We owned the Mets forever and no one, not the national media, the ajc, or ESPN hesitated to call them our rivalry and soon enough they passed us and went to the World Series. Why not us? I don’t think the Braves are intimidated by them, they’re due for a downswing and we’ll be right there. All we have to do is keep that bullpen fresh for the late part of the season (unlike last year) and we’ll be okay. All the Bravos have to do is keep swinging, hitting, and most importantly keep scoring better like they have been and the world is ours…
GO BRAVES!!!
Kelly
May 5th, 2012
3:15 pm
@Braves will be there: Yes, it does.
Disgusted
May 5th, 2012
3:21 pm
Tip Your Cap—I think the Braves seriously want to give Francisco the opportunity for the third base job next year, and there are times he does show some skill at the plate. Is he the answer, that no one really knows right now.
The catching spot will be a concern when Mc Cann gets paid after next yr. CF, I do not expect to retain Bourn either.
We have a better system and a payroll not quite as cheap as KC and Pittsburgh, so I don’t know if it will be that bad. But for the forseeable future (5 yrs say) I see them as a middle of the pack team that would be better of corpoate stiffs would make the investment in the team.
But these people could care les about baseball, so do not expect treats.
If anything Liberty Media will throw us a few tricks we might like. The Braves have been relevant in the Liberty Media era in spite of ownership. Not great, but still relevant, could be better.
And Heyward is just going to have to get better. This last year plus its just not good enough. I hope he can be what he was cracked up to be, but now I am saying “show me”.
Disgusted
May 5th, 2012
3:22 pm
I mean LM will throw us a few tricks we might NOT like. Typo.
Disgusted
May 5th, 2012
3:24 pm
I predict that payroll goes down by 10 to 15 mil next yr given that Chipper and Bourn;s deals are up and Lowe is totally off the books afterr this yr.
Don’t be surprised if they choose not to spend the outgoing money. Hey, its their team and they have the right to do it their way.
Kentucky Derby party starts early on infield – Atlanta Journal Constitution | The Time of Press
May 5th, 2012
3:37 pm
[...] Braves’ progress won’t matter until they can beat Phillies [...]
Wreckmaniac
May 5th, 2012
3:38 pm
Jeff, great point. I was waiting for someone to bring this up. The Phils come to our field and win 2 of 3. Nuff said. We all know the NL East is chasing the Phllies. This is nothing but a “how many days until the Phils are in first place” watch. With Ryan Howard and Utley out, Joe Blanton throws a 9 inning shutout ?
I never knew Blanton could pitch. The Phils will go on a 30 win out of 40 game stretch sooner or later and make this a wild card race once again for the Braves. And I’ll be happy with it as long as the Braves are the wild card winner.
Eldrick
May 5th, 2012
4:40 pm
No need to play anyoother games. Just forfeit them then.
74bravesjersey
May 5th, 2012
6:54 pm
I want to tip my cap to ya jeff; I also got a urge to tip a cow also. Nobody here likes to lay down for the fillies(female horses), It was like our boys were too tuckered the next day, yet da fightin’ fills dug down just a little bit deeper than we did. BUT! we did make up that game last night. That was a hard fought game as well. Hope they got somethin’ left in the tank tonight. For the rest of the road trip for that matter.
hop
May 5th, 2012
9:59 pm
the braves not only are behind of the phillies ,but also may behind washington as well.
the braves do not have enough money to compete with either team.
it will be another flop as last year and the braves will be sitting home during the play-offs
LetsPlayTwo
May 6th, 2012
12:16 am
Balance of youth and veterans. FF’s enthusiasm is contagious. JH taking things seriously again. DU playing like himself. MP is a pro’s pro and will be a perennial all star. MB setting the table consistently. Bullpen showing it’s not flawless but still the best in MLB. CJ and BMc will show leadership and this team is resilient. Rest CJ as much as possible. His leadership and the respect he has earned is as valuable in the clubhouse and dugout as it is in the field.
JS…don’t be such a rabble rouser!!
Roja
May 6th, 2012
8:01 pm
Unless they change the Playoff format to include 12 teams from each league, the Phillies won’t be in the post season
TERRIBLE ARTICLE
May 7th, 2012
9:05 am
This is such an awful article. They just came off winning…what 5? 6? series and we lose 2 of 3 to the phillies and its over. Get real. The philliies dont own this team and we were partially banged up pitching wise, but they are moving in the right direction and we probably need to watch out for the Nats rather than the phillies. Offense looks great. Pitching looks so-so but has a lot of room to improve as the season goes, and this team is hungry. I watched probably 150 games last year and this team is completely differnt. They have a will to win that we didnt have last year and the kids all want Chipper to go out on top
chalkdawg4
May 7th, 2012
10:05 am
Jeff – I guess you have been on vacation or something. Article still posted looks pretty dumb right now after our sweep of the Rockies. I’m starting to believe in this team. I we can go 6-3 or 7-2 on this difficult road trip I may officially be on board. Liking what I see. Dare I say “In Wren we Trust”. Go Bravos!!!
Michael G.
May 7th, 2012
10:59 am
Did the paper get rid of the columnists? Not that that would be a bad thing, just curious.
Silly Schultzy
May 7th, 2012
11:36 am
The Brave’s just Beat Up Roy Halladay.I guess beating one of the best pitchers in baseball doesn’t count!
Phillies #3
May 7th, 2012
11:39 am
The Brave’s might be a 2nd place team but the Phillies are no better than a 3rd place team!……….so shut the #@%& Up!
Kelly
May 7th, 2012
11:53 am
P Rose – Who cares what other teams around the league think of the Braves? I doubt you can back that statement up, but it’s not like the Braves are trying to date another team. They’re trying to compete and defeat them.
Marc Schneider
May 9th, 2012
9:42 am
It’s a silly article. The Red Sox beat the hell out of the Yankees last year and, yet, the Yankees won the division. It doesn’t particularly matter what the Braves do against the Phillies; it matters what they do overall. If the Phillies win the season series but the Braves make the playoffs and the Phillies don’t, what does it matter?
Auburn Fan
May 14th, 2012
3:23 pm
Did you really have to even write this article? We get it.
Atlanta teams always seem to run into a better team in the playoffs. How many times did the Braves lose the World Series?
The Falcons lost to the Super Bowl winner 3 years in a row!
Lobosolo
May 14th, 2012
6:27 pm
…. and your columns won’t matter until you learn to write as well as the Braves play ball….