Braves’ progress won’t matter until they can beat Phillies
Michael Bourn was doubled off first to end the Braves' loss to Philadelphia. (Jason Getz/AJC)
Once the confetti finally settled in the aftermath of the Braves’ four-hour, 11-inning, 28-run, 36-hit, is-that-really-Tim-Hudson-grabbing-a-bat marathon win over Philadelphia the night before, the Braves were left with one painful truth Thursday: The Phillies still own them.
This doesn’t mean the Braves won’t reach the postseason this year. It doesn’t even mean they can’t win the National League East Division. But Philadelphia didn’t leave town without reaffirming the pecking order.
We may see a blur of replays of Chipper Jones’ walk-off two-run blast that ended Game 2 of the series. We may remember the pyrotechnics of Wednesday’s 15-13 victory for several years. But it was the Phillies who bounced back to win Thursday’s game 4-0. That wrapped up yet another series win over the Braves — and ultimately, that’s really the big picture.
“Somebody said at the beginning of the series that this is a rivalry,” Jones said after the loss Thursday. “It’s not a rivalry until we beat them and beat them consistently, and we go back and forth — you know, we win the division one year, they win it the next. That’s not the case. They’re clearly on top. We’ve got a ways to go. Can we play with them? Yeah. Can we beat them? Yeah. We just have to go out and do it consistently.”
The Braves logically view Philadelphia as the team to beat in the East. Washington’s in first place? Yeah. That’s cute. Over the past five seasons, the Phillies have won five division titles, two pennants and a World Series. The Nationals have won bupkis.
The worst thing from the Braves’ standpoint is that no matter how strong they may think they are, there’s only one team that consistently buries them.
The Phillies had won eight consecutive meetings until Wednesday night’s marathon, so it’s now nine of 10. They have won nine of the past 13 series against the Braves. Since 2008, Philly’s record against Atlanta is 46-29. Over the past seven years, the Phillies have won five season series, the Braves (2009) won with one split (2007).
Not a rivalry.
Let’s not forgot the inglorious ending to last season. It was the Phillies who whacked the Braves on the head with a shovel and pushed them in the hole. They came to Turner Field at the end of September with the East already clinched and nothing to gain but the pleasure of tormenting Atlanta. So they did. They won Game 1 4-2; Game 2 7-1; and Game 3 4-3 in 13 innings. The Braves then sat slumped in their chair, looking at the television and watching St. Louis defeat Houston 8-0 to win the wild card.
These are not scars that will easily heal.
The Phillies are only a .500 team (13-13) through 26 games. Do the Braves view that as significant? No.
“Washington is good, the Mets are good, but until you knock the team off that won it the year before, and the year before that, it doesn’t matter what kind of start they got off to,” catcher David Ross said. “Until we beat them, they’re the team that holds the crown.”
On Thursday, the Braves received a great start from Randall Delgado (eight innings, two runs). But it didn’t matter because the day after making the Phillies’ pitching staff scream, “Uncle” with 15 runs and 19 hits, they made Joe Blanton look like Grover Cleveland Alexander (zero runs, three hits, all singles). The game lasted only two hours, two minutes.
The Braves looked tired and play tired. Didn’t the Phillies have the same turnaround as the Braves?
“Their catcher [Brian Schneider] told me their bus [departure] time from the stadium last night was 12:10 [a.m.],” Ross said. “The first pitch [Thursday] was 12:10, so the game was exactly 12 hours later.”
One team clearly responded better.
Ross again: “This is one hump we have to get over.”
Until the Braves get over the hump of Philadelphia, little else will matter. Because as great as Wednesday’s victory was, what matters most is that the Phillies came to town and won twice.
By Jeff Schultz
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135 comments Add your comment
FSUBrave
May 4th, 2012
7:38 pm
the phils look alot like the 90s braves with a dominant rotation, and we look alot like teh phillies of the 90s…we’ve reversed roles with them….we are going to need another stud bopper before we can compete with them…if you look back over the last couple of years, the nationals have owned the braves also…the nats have the best chance to unseat them this year
Disgusted
May 4th, 2012
8:16 pm
I agree that the Phils look like the 90’s Braves, but the Braves are a tad better than those 90’s Phillie teams.
The Nats are the sleeper in the division and when the change of the guard in the NL East comes, the Nats are going to have a substantial run. And their owners have shown that they are not afraid to make the investment, first they invested in the system and now they will get a FA or a veteran player. They may not spend Phillie money, but they will be bigger players than us.
The Marlins are fools gold and the Mets, hey, its NY and they won’t be down forever but they really need to focus on the system.
Third place is about right for the Braves this yr with 83-85 W’s and that will take progress from the kid pitchers.
Tip Your Cap
May 4th, 2012
8:49 pm
Disgusted, I can certainly understand the cynical fans, because I’m one of them! And it’s not just too much youth on the pitching staff, it’s at first base, right field, shortstop, in the bullpen,and who’s going to be at third next year? On top of that, you have a second baseman playing left field… all of this designed to save the bucks. Many of these guys could pan out at some point, but to expect it all at once is blowing smoke up the fans’ posteriors. The more I watch, the more I see the Braves morphing into the Royals, or the Pirates, developmental teams for the rest of MLB. They hang on to the good young players they develop until they can make more money, then let them go, or at best “rent” a veteran for a year or two. Let’s see where Bourn winds up next year and who is in center for the Braves. Pretty sad.
UGAFurman
May 5th, 2012
1:19 am
WE just gained that game back we lost from the phils yesterday you jackwagons!
Rogers
May 5th, 2012
10:12 am
Jeff, good points. I would also say that based on past years, the Nationals also own the Braves. In fact, they owned the Braves the last few years of being the Expos.
DetroitBraves
May 5th, 2012
11:00 am
I wouldn’t mind the Braves spending more to give themselves a better chance to win, but they are 16th in the majors according to a USA Today report. About right in the middle, which is nearly one-to-one with their 15th ranked attendance in 2011. The Reds, Nats, and Rays are all below them – with each picked by several publications to contend. The Blue Jays and Rockies also have respectable rosters with lower salaries. I guess the point is that while it may well be easier to contend with a top 5 payroll, a 16th ranked payroll does not preclude you from being competitive. For example there’s, well, the Atlanta Braves.
P Rose
May 5th, 2012
11:22 am
Chipper: “Can we beat them? Yeah.”
Chipper, shut up!
As a leader (on the field), and as a hitter, we love ya. As a spokesman, not so much. These kinds of comments are why the rest of the league hates the Braves. It’s why the Phillies would play each game of a meaningless (to them) series, just to knock out the team with the big mouth.
BullDogMike
May 5th, 2012
11:33 am
Atlanta can’t keep counting on other teams to take out the Phillies for them. That’s all they have been doing now for five years. The talent is pretty even on both clubs. Phillies have more depth at starting pitching, and Braves have deeper pen. Other than that, it’s pretty even. Braves just have it in their heads that they are jinxed or something when they play each other. They need to play like they actually hate Phillies, maybe that would help…
TechRon
May 5th, 2012
1:14 pm
Jeff, you are correct. Braves are much improved but still a 2nd place team. Last years team had no class. This year’s edition is better, but still not good enough to stay with the Phils. Same awful ownership, Front office, field manager. What a lack of character to collapse like they did last September! They absolutely laid down in this Phillies series in games 1 and 3. I can believe that they will finish 2nd in the division, though. Gosh, do they need to get rid of Fredi Gonzalez!
Instant Dawgma
May 5th, 2012
1:28 pm
Wow, another game like Wednesday’s! Braves are becoming comeback kids. Wish they would start taking leads first and keep it.
it's true
May 5th, 2012
1:34 pm
Glad the Braves were on last night to watch instead of another Hawks debacle.
Wouldn’t watch the Hawks even if Braves weren’t on. More intelligent watching paint dry than watching an NBA game.
Braves will be there
May 5th, 2012
1:37 pm
When does the added wild card team go into effect? This year?
They're winning, quit complaining
May 5th, 2012
1:57 pm
“Huggy” Freeman had to stretch to wrap around Hinske last night.
Kelly
May 5th, 2012
2:47 pm
Headline is pure hyperbole, but I guess that’s the business you’re in. Chipper is right. Of course they need to beat them consistently. Obviously. That said, I’m heartened by what I’ve seen this year. It hasn’t been perfect. They’ve been a bit streaky. And when it comes to Philly, they’re probably over-matched talent-wise. They’re improving and their youth is evident. However, their progress is also evident. Glad that athletes don’t think about things on those hyperbolic terms. Otherwise, the Braves should just pack up their gear and go fishing.
D-Man
May 5th, 2012
2:51 pm
We’ll get the Phillies soon enough. It’s wayyyyyyy to early to write off our ability to beat the Phillies. They’re not getting any younger or healthier. If not for that marathon very exciting thriller in game 2 leaving the whole team gassed (and fans), we may have beaten them game 3. It’s just May AND just the 1st meeting with the Phils, don’t panic yet. We owned the Mets forever and no one, not the national media, the ajc, or ESPN hesitated to call them our rivalry and soon enough they passed us and went to the World Series. Why not us? I don’t think the Braves are intimidated by them, they’re due for a downswing and we’ll be right there. All we have to do is keep that bullpen fresh for the late part of the season (unlike last year) and we’ll be okay. All the Bravos have to do is keep swinging, hitting, and most importantly keep scoring better like they have been and the world is ours…
GO BRAVES!!!
Kelly
May 5th, 2012
3:15 pm
@Braves will be there: Yes, it does.
Disgusted
May 5th, 2012
3:21 pm
Tip Your Cap—I think the Braves seriously want to give Francisco the opportunity for the third base job next year, and there are times he does show some skill at the plate. Is he the answer, that no one really knows right now.
The catching spot will be a concern when Mc Cann gets paid after next yr. CF, I do not expect to retain Bourn either.
We have a better system and a payroll not quite as cheap as KC and Pittsburgh, so I don’t know if it will be that bad. But for the forseeable future (5 yrs say) I see them as a middle of the pack team that would be better of corpoate stiffs would make the investment in the team.
But these people could care les about baseball, so do not expect treats.
If anything Liberty Media will throw us a few tricks we might like. The Braves have been relevant in the Liberty Media era in spite of ownership. Not great, but still relevant, could be better.
And Heyward is just going to have to get better. This last year plus its just not good enough. I hope he can be what he was cracked up to be, but now I am saying “show me”.
Disgusted
May 5th, 2012
3:22 pm
I mean LM will throw us a few tricks we might NOT like. Typo.
Disgusted
May 5th, 2012
3:24 pm
I predict that payroll goes down by 10 to 15 mil next yr given that Chipper and Bourn;s deals are up and Lowe is totally off the books afterr this yr.
Don’t be surprised if they choose not to spend the outgoing money. Hey, its their team and they have the right to do it their way.
Kentucky Derby party starts early on infield – Atlanta Journal Constitution | The Time of Press
May 5th, 2012
3:37 pm
[...] Braves’ progress won’t matter until they can beat Phillies [...]
Wreckmaniac
May 5th, 2012
3:38 pm
Jeff, great point. I was waiting for someone to bring this up. The Phils come to our field and win 2 of 3. Nuff said. We all know the NL East is chasing the Phllies. This is nothing but a “how many days until the Phils are in first place” watch. With Ryan Howard and Utley out, Joe Blanton throws a 9 inning shutout ?
I never knew Blanton could pitch. The Phils will go on a 30 win out of 40 game stretch sooner or later and make this a wild card race once again for the Braves. And I’ll be happy with it as long as the Braves are the wild card winner.
Eldrick
May 5th, 2012
4:40 pm
No need to play anyoother games. Just forfeit them then.
74bravesjersey
May 5th, 2012
6:54 pm
I want to tip my cap to ya jeff; I also got a urge to tip a cow also. Nobody here likes to lay down for the fillies(female horses), It was like our boys were too tuckered the next day, yet da fightin’ fills dug down just a little bit deeper than we did. BUT! we did make up that game last night. That was a hard fought game as well. Hope they got somethin’ left in the tank tonight. For the rest of the road trip for that matter.
hop
May 5th, 2012
9:59 pm
the braves not only are behind of the phillies ,but also may behind washington as well.
the braves do not have enough money to compete with either team.
it will be another flop as last year and the braves will be sitting home during the play-offs
LetsPlayTwo
May 6th, 2012
12:16 am
Balance of youth and veterans. FF’s enthusiasm is contagious. JH taking things seriously again. DU playing like himself. MP is a pro’s pro and will be a perennial all star. MB setting the table consistently. Bullpen showing it’s not flawless but still the best in MLB. CJ and BMc will show leadership and this team is resilient. Rest CJ as much as possible. His leadership and the respect he has earned is as valuable in the clubhouse and dugout as it is in the field.
JS…don’t be such a rabble rouser!!
Roja
May 6th, 2012
8:01 pm
Unless they change the Playoff format to include 12 teams from each league, the Phillies won’t be in the post season
TERRIBLE ARTICLE
May 7th, 2012
9:05 am
This is such an awful article. They just came off winning…what 5? 6? series and we lose 2 of 3 to the phillies and its over. Get real. The philliies dont own this team and we were partially banged up pitching wise, but they are moving in the right direction and we probably need to watch out for the Nats rather than the phillies. Offense looks great. Pitching looks so-so but has a lot of room to improve as the season goes, and this team is hungry. I watched probably 150 games last year and this team is completely differnt. They have a will to win that we didnt have last year and the kids all want Chipper to go out on top
chalkdawg4
May 7th, 2012
10:05 am
Jeff – I guess you have been on vacation or something. Article still posted looks pretty dumb right now after our sweep of the Rockies. I’m starting to believe in this team. I we can go 6-3 or 7-2 on this difficult road trip I may officially be on board. Liking what I see. Dare I say “In Wren we Trust”. Go Bravos!!!
Michael G.
May 7th, 2012
10:59 am
Did the paper get rid of the columnists? Not that that would be a bad thing, just curious.
Silly Schultzy
May 7th, 2012
11:36 am
The Brave’s just Beat Up Roy Halladay.I guess beating one of the best pitchers in baseball doesn’t count!
Phillies #3
May 7th, 2012
11:39 am
The Brave’s might be a 2nd place team but the Phillies are no better than a 3rd place team!……….so shut the #@%& Up!
Kelly
May 7th, 2012
11:53 am
P Rose – Who cares what other teams around the league think of the Braves? I doubt you can back that statement up, but it’s not like the Braves are trying to date another team. They’re trying to compete and defeat them.
Marc Schneider
May 9th, 2012
9:42 am
It’s a silly article. The Red Sox beat the hell out of the Yankees last year and, yet, the Yankees won the division. It doesn’t particularly matter what the Braves do against the Phillies; it matters what they do overall. If the Phillies win the season series but the Braves make the playoffs and the Phillies don’t, what does it matter?
Auburn Fan
May 14th, 2012
3:23 pm
Did you really have to even write this article? We get it.
Atlanta teams always seem to run into a better team in the playoffs. How many times did the Braves lose the World Series?
The Falcons lost to the Super Bowl winner 3 years in a row!
Lobosolo
May 14th, 2012
6:27 pm
…. and your columns won’t matter until you learn to write as well as the Braves play ball….