Hello, Saints: NFL violence not same as premeditated assault
Gregg Williams admits, "It was a terrible mistake, and we knew it was wrong when we were doing it." Too late. (AP photo)
During his NFL career, Doug Plank suffered multiple concussions — they didn’t really count them back then — five knee surgeries and a spinal concussion that left his left leg partially numb in retirement. He might have played longer than eight seasons, but, as he said, “I made 100 tackles per season. That’s like 800 train wrecks.”
This is what Doug Plank, one of the tougher men ever to play football, the guy for whom the Chicago Bears’ famous “46 defense” was named, thinks of the New Orleans Saints reportedly putting bounties on players.
“I can’t believe a coach, a team or an organization would stand behind that policy,” he said. “For a coach to even address something like that with players, like, ‘This is a person we can remove from the game,’ that puts you on pretty thin ice. If this is true, when you make a decision [on discipline], you have to understand that actions like that affect all the people in this business. It needs to be something that says, ‘This will not be accepted.’”
When the NFL disclosed Friday, in alarming detail and transparency, that the New Orleans Saints maintained a “bounty” program for three seasons, involving “22 to 27 defensive players” and “at least one assistant coach,” I was initially underwhelmed. We celebrate violence in football, at all levels. The bigger hit, the better.
But there’s a difference between rewarding an athlete for an unscripted play and a premeditated assault. Yes, football is a brutal and physical game. Players generally fall into one of three categories: 1) A little crazy; 2) A lot crazy; 3) Waived. But that doesn’t excuse New Orleans defensive coordinator Gregg Williams for basically pinning a poster to a locker-room wall, reading, “WANTED: Kurt Warner. Maimed. Reward: $10,000.”
Doug Plank, former Georgia Force coach, knows about legalized NFL violence. (AJC photo)
Warner and Brett Favre were two of the players identified in the report as targets. Allegations were initially investigated in 2010 but were denied and couldn’t be proved. New information led to the investigation being reopened in 2011.
The NFL’s statement reads like a federal indictment, with bullet points on “payments for cart-offs,” funding practices and the damning actions of general manager Mickey Loomis.
If there is a line between the NFL being controlled or barbaric, the Saints crossed it. Williams and coach Sean Payton should be suspended for a season. Loomis, who may have lied to both his owner and the NFL, should be out of a job. The team should, and will, lose draft picks. The punishment needs to hurt.
Former Georgia defensive end and Cincinnati Bengals linebacker David Pollack goes even further.
“If it’s true that [Williams] paid for Warner and Favre’s injuries for late hits, we need to talk about permanent bans,” he said.
Those trivializing this as some boys-will-be-boys offense are missing the point. This goes beyond cheating, like “Spygate.” We’re talking about people’s careers and lives.
It’s significant that even Williams admitted, “It was a terrible mistake, and we knew it was wrong while we were doing it.”
Suddenly, he doesn’t seem so tough.
Plank, former Georgia Force coach and now the Arena league coach in Philadelphia, played for defensive coordinator Buddy Ryan in Chicago. Ryan was alleged to have put bounties on Dallas quarterback Troy Aikman and kicker Luis Zendejas when he coached the Eagles. But Plank said he wasn’t aware of any coach-run bounty system in Chicago, and when he played (1975-82) players didn’t make enough to fund such a system.
“When I played, you got rewarded for the big hit or big play of the game,” he said. “At Ohio State, it was called the ‘Jack Tatum Hit of the Game.’ In Chicago if you made a big play I think they gave you a dinner for two. But that was after the fact. What we’re talking about in New Orleans is more in advance. Buddy didn’t stand in front of a room while we were watching film and say, ‘This guy has to go down.’”
Williams did as much. He admits it.
Commissioner Roger Goodell will swing a sledgehammer. Bounty rules, he said, ensure “player safety and competitive integrity.”
Everything else is window dressing.
By Jeff Schultz
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175 comments Add your comment
Roger Goodell
March 6th, 2012
7:33 pm
Now I finally have a reason to turn Cinderella’s carriage back into a pumpkin. I’m sick of that city anyway, but I appreciate all the drunks and whores buying all those jerseys. Business is booming!
whodatJackieJ
March 6th, 2012
7:38 pm
Yes it is
ROZEMAN13
March 6th, 2012
7:38 pm
Should hold Payton and Williams down then let Farve ” pork em’ both.
Beating
March 6th, 2012
7:42 pm
Favre took a serious beating in that NFC Championship game. You know, if they can be paid to deliver the big hit, then maybe they can be paid by opposing QB’s to lie down. Sam Baker must have been paid to be an usher to the QB.
ViningDawg
March 6th, 2012
7:52 pm
I am impressed by David Pollock… He makes a definitive statement and uses logic and his experience to firm that statement. ESPN should use his voice on this story!
Paddy
March 6th, 2012
7:54 pm
Bomb Iran……….it might have taken 5 days for Jeff S. to write this worthwhile article. It would have taken Furman Bisher 25 to write this story.
Sautee Dawg
March 6th, 2012
8:04 pm
Simple Solution
Get Benson, Loomis, Payton and Williams and line them up on the line of scrimmage (without pads) and let linebackers for all the other NFL teams take turns tackling them.
Just about tell by the smirk on Payton’s face during games he’s a piece of crap.
Sid
March 6th, 2012
8:06 pm
Matt Ryan’s Dad
March 6th, 2012
1:02 pm
Along with suspensions, fines and draft picks being taken away, is it to much to ask Goodell to allow us Falcon’s fans to pee on the Saints logo?
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Post of the Day!
Sautee Dawg
March 6th, 2012
8:07 pm
The Golden Boy (Drew Brees) couldn’t have known about this bounty could he?
Sid
March 6th, 2012
8:10 pm
Mountain Man
March 6th, 2012
1:50 pm
Strip N.O. of their franchise tag. Force them to negotiate and pay Brees what he’s worth, thereby leaving much less money in which to sign the rest of their free agents. Ban Williams from the game. Suspend Peyton for the year. Take away this years 2nd rounder and next years 1st rounder.
That should do it.
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Is that where they are brewing all that beer Mountain Man cause you sound like you are swimmin’ in the vat.
5150 UOAD
March 6th, 2012
8:10 pm
Sautee Dwag and you don’t think Grantham has the Kill the QB attitude and mentality? You saw him Choke Sign a FG kicker and almost get in a Fist Fight with the Vandy coach. I will not believe Grantham doesn’t push the guys to TEAR the HEAD OFF the opposing teams players that have the ball. You just like it when your team is doing it but not when it is being done to them. We are called FANatics for a reason.
Sid
March 6th, 2012
8:12 pm
Sautee Dawg
March 6th, 2012
8:07 pm
The Golden Boy (Drew Brees) couldn’t have known about this bounty could he?
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Only if he looked at the “Wanted” posters on the wall.
Sid
March 6th, 2012
8:19 pm
Jeff, quite a swing from your earlier article. I mean it’s like we went from Dancing with the Stars to
Steve Irwin pulling the barb of a stingray out of his heart. Anyway, write on.
StatesBurr
March 6th, 2012
8:47 pm
Excellent article Jeff.
New Orleans, a city who can organize a convoy of buses to a football game, however could not evacuate their people during Katrina.
Sid
March 6th, 2012
8:54 pm
5150 UOAD
March 6th, 2012
3:02 pm
Butkus said it and it is true. If you want the game to be safer and less violent just eliminate the helmets or face masks.
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Here is your post from Jeff’s previous article:
5150 UOAD
March 5th, 2012
1:19 pm
If you don’t want to get fed to the LIONS in the Coliseum then don’t be a Christian Martyr.
If you don’t want to get shot by Drug Dealers then do be a Cop.
If you want to make average money, use your education, and not risk bodily harm then don’t get rich, risk injury, and live for the roar of the crowd by playing football.
Not trying to inflict injury during a football game while winning is like not trying to kill the enemy and still win the war.
it is FOOTBALL not powder puff of lil league. the NFL keeps SCORE. This ain’t everybody wins and gets a trophy crap. The Players assume the risk because of the benefit of the money. They went to college and could be using their education to work earning money in some other industry.
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Hogwash and double speak dude. Make up your mind. You ride high on your know it all turd wagon but dwell 3 feet up a bull’s ass.
Sid
March 6th, 2012
8:58 pm
5150 UOAD
March 5th, 2012
10:50 pm
Supersize that order, mutt………..You know SuperS NEVER posts on ANY blog but the TECH BLOG. You are trying to STEAL his man and be a but and people on this Blog don’t know that name and you are just childish.
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That’s right …..defend your boyfriend with all of your……….er uh……lol,,,,,,,,,,snicker………might!
Sid
March 6th, 2012
9:02 pm
I’m delighted for the penalties soon to come the Saints way and the muzzling effect it has had on the A hole peeshwank NO bloggers who live to infest.
5150 UOAD
March 6th, 2012
9:10 pm
SID I want the game to be violent because that is how it is played now days. Now if you want to stop the violence then i told you ways to do it. I would still watch. You are using double speak too. you are wanting the players that are the most violent but didn’t get flagged for it to now be punished for doing what at its heart the game is: Violent Human Crashes. Ronny Lott would owe the NFL more than he would make in a year if he still played in the WussFL.
DawgNole
March 6th, 2012
9:45 pm
Sid, I think you might have something there with your 5150-Supersize “boyfriend” thing.
DawgNole
March 6th, 2012
9:47 pm
cajungirl: “BTW, New Orleans is only stinky because all of the visitors from around the country visit and decided to vomit and relieve themselves in the street.”
____________________
Probably because the street smells like a toilet.
Jeff Schultz
March 6th, 2012
9:57 pm
Thanks all for the comments. Just checking back in. Was out tonight.
Jeff Schultz
March 6th, 2012
10:00 pm
Bill — Yeah, Plank and Mark Harmon look a little alike. Not sure if you know but Harmon played football too — QB at UCLA.
Jeff Schultz
March 6th, 2012
10:03 pm
Choke — Spygate was cheating. But I don’t understand argument that this isn’t cheating. How is an illegal act to take out a team’s opposing star not cheating?
Truefalcon
March 6th, 2012
10:06 pm
Read the SI article ! The hammer is coming and I can’t think a better team than the aints.
After the Farve hit and the aints yellein “pay me my money” will be their undoing.
The GM knew, lied and did nothing to stop the program. Loomis did stop the system after being instructed to and AFTER the NFL stated it’s investigation.
Clearly the saints organization thought it was above the rest of the NFL. I think they will find out much much differently.
Jeff Schultz
March 6th, 2012
10:06 pm
Eddie “Knuckles” Cicotte — (off topic) I’ve heard nothing of DH’s “imminent” arrival in NL. Personally would rather see DH taken out of AL. I’m old-school in that way.
John Giovanelli
March 6th, 2012
10:14 pm
The Saints hired Mike Storms, a guy I knew since grade school in NJ. He is a martial arts expert who taught the Saints players how to utilize the arts on the field. Where is there room for debate regarding the intent of the players?
Jeff
March 6th, 2012
10:23 pm
Saints, and their fans, SUX.
md
March 6th, 2012
10:29 pm
Only a matter of time before the courts step in like they did/do in the NHL…….premeditated intent is assault.
BooBoo
March 6th, 2012
11:50 pm
Off with their heads! They need the death penalty for one year. Forfiet all 16 game. Lose their 1st round draft choice (last), and pick last in every round. Peyton should be banned from the NFL, as too Greg Williams.
hind tit
March 6th, 2012
11:55 pm
The more these guys get paid the stupider they get. The NFL needs to stop drafting players that don’t graduate from college. What we have this day and time is players with thug mentality. All you have to do is read the sports page everyday and see that the a lot of the players and even the coaches are thugs which proves their not to smart. Get rid of the low lives and the game will get it’s integrity back.
tom
March 7th, 2012
5:14 am
Fire the GM. Suspend Payton and Williams for a season. Fine the Saints in a big way and take away significant draft picks for three years. Who Dat you say.
Shug
March 7th, 2012
6:56 am
Could one of you geniuses tell me the difference between: (1) Go hit that guy as hard as you can and knock his block off, and (2) Go hit that guy as hard as you can and knock his block off and I’ll give you $100.
This story is nothing more than an opportunity for self-righteous sanctimonious people to mouth off about how morally superior they are.
Admiral Obvious
March 7th, 2012
7:08 am
A scummy team for a scummy city
big stink from New Orleans
March 7th, 2012
7:31 am
Couldn’t stand Payton or Williams before, now this? Kick em out for a year…make them work in a trauma unit.
Bud Wiser
March 7th, 2012
7:53 am
NFL will do nothing to Saints worth mentioning, mark my words.
ESPN slobbers all over New Orleans, their commentators leaving a slug-like trail, visible from the International Space Station from Bristol to NO.
Saints are the ‘darlings’ of the NFL….. didn’t they rebuild New Orleans single-handedly after Katrina (what was it 40-45 years ago now?), give them the heart, the hope, the change?
Nothing of consequence.
Nothing.
Joe Paterno shoved out at Penn State for acts committed by subordinates, and frankly I find little difference in level of sub-human activity between acts of sodomy or attempting to maim or cripple another human, possibly for life. One leaves an emotional scar that perhaps can be healed; the other can leave a physical scar that may last the rest of the victim’s life, or bring that life to a premature conclusion.
It’s all about the dough, all about the show.
The NFL will do nothing.
dcb
March 7th, 2012
7:58 am
I’m not sure about this “reward” thing – because as Plank differentiated in this article “…“If it’s true that [Williams] paid for Warner and Favre’s injuries for late hits, we need to talk about permanent bans…” There is a big difference between legit hits, and LATE hits. I can’t see how anyone would be penalized for legit hits – no matter how hard. Just as I can’t see how anyone this past season could be fined by the league for hits that weren’t flagged by officials. But it happened.
just facts
March 7th, 2012
7:59 am
shug… your question using a comparison is so ignorant that I don’t think anyone else knows how to respond except to ask you and hope that you are not serious. tell me that you are just trying to “stir the pot” a little more. if not, then I guess we all know that you are just clueless.
I just went back and read your post again and anyone that uses a phrase like “knock their block off” can’t be taken too seriously. you do realize that we are talking about football and not “rock’em sock’em robots”?
Jimmy Crack
March 7th, 2012
8:04 am
It is interesting how many actions have consequences for others, like Williams’ actions and the consequences for the innocent bystanding St. Louis Rams. They just hired a (previously) highly coveted defensive coordinator and now they may have no choice but to release him under a potential NFL authorized ban on Williams. This would leave their team without a DC, which don’t grow on trees, and they will have to make due with either Williams assistant (who they did not directly hire as he was enlisted by Williams) or they will have to find one who presently does not have a job (good luck). This will be tremendously unfair to the Rams franchise.
This adds to the reasoning for Williams, if he is released by the Rams due to NFL punishment, to get a lifetime ban from the National Football League.
Jimmy Crack
March 7th, 2012
8:08 am
I’ll try…
Shug, what specifically does “knock his block off” mean to you?
Sid
March 7th, 2012
8:39 am
This is gonna be fun…………….where will Peyton go? The Colts had no choice………..it’s “bizness”. They better hope Luck is the stud as advertised………..QB flops aren’t new.
D man
March 7th, 2012
8:43 am
Looks like the tide has turned in the NFC South. Saints will be back where they belong real soon. Loserville who dats…
saintsation777
March 7th, 2012
8:57 am
Boy I never thought as a Saint fan that I would put down other teams but obviously Atlanta along with your insane local sportwriters are jealous of our success that you all will never have. Our defense was sorry, pathetic, couldn’t tackle, and never had anyone carted off the field far as I remember. You all just jealous people in need of serious help especially your local sportswriters who ty and fan the flames. When Vick went down for dog scandals I supported you people and him. Now, I just support Vick. Thats why you all will never win a playoff game in the forseeable future. LOL
tfalcon
March 7th, 2012
9:11 am
@Jeff S can we have a vote to kick Choke’s A$$ off the AJC Blog. He such a classless Taint troll never has anything with any kind of substance
to say only BULLSHI!!.He is the only one on here that I would really like to stick a football up his backside
tfalcon
March 7th, 2012
9:17 am
@taintsnation I think all should be punished for there role in bountys
IM just going to be sooooooooooo glad to see the taints punishment FIRST
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
TD has no clue!
March 7th, 2012
9:21 am
Who Dat say I gonna take yo knees out. Sean Payton dats who!
cybo
March 7th, 2012
9:32 am
Take away the Saints Championship and give to the Falcons.
I know it was just a thought GEEZ
cybo
March 7th, 2012
9:37 am
Ideal Punishment
Have coach Payton run his office with Matt ” popcorn arm” Ryan
Little"D"dean
March 7th, 2012
9:37 am
Just to clear it up. I’m not the Dean who was sparring with 5150. I am the dean who was FIRST.
Sheffield
March 7th, 2012
9:41 am
Like I keep saying…No Hammer! The league LOVES the Saints…They been fixing it for them since Katrina!
cybo
March 7th, 2012
9:41 am
sorry meant offense