What’s worse: Saints’ ‘BountyGate’ or Patriots’ ‘Spygate’?
Gregg Williams messed with players' livelihoods.
Bill Belichick was hammered for taping signals.
The Falcons are about to get some very good news. Their primary competition in the NFC South, the New Orleans Saints, are expected to get slapped by NFL commissioner Roger Goodell for a “bounty” program by former defensive coordinator Gregg Williams.
We can’t be sure yet what the penalties will be, but the Saints are expected to lose some high draft picks. Williams, now with the St. Louis Rams, likely will be suspended for several games, possibly the entire season. Both parties also will get fined — which is sort of like Goodell collecting his own bounty.
My initial thought when I heard about the bounty program actually was not one of surprise, but maybe a little disgust. I don’t condone it. I just don’t believe it’s that uncommon. We celebrate football players for hard hits all the way down to the youth level. So we shouldn’t be surprised that a coach or a player is being rewarded for it — whether it’s a pizza in Pop Warner or $10,000 in the NFL.
Loading ...I might have more on the New Orleans situation in a blog later. But for now, here’s my question (which I openly admit stealing from my pal, Tim Cowlishaw, of the Dallas Morning News). In your mind, is Williams’ bounty program with the Saints worse than the New England Patriots’ “Spygate” scandal?
Both are a form of cheating. Goodell found the Patriots in violation of league rules for filming the sideline hand signals of the New York Jets in 2007. He fined Bill Belichick $500,000 (the largest fine ever against a coach), the team $250,000 and took away a first-round draft pick.
Bounties are cheating on another level — a dirtier level. If a player feels extra motivation to take a cheapshot at the opposing quarterback because he’ll be rewarded for it — and that quarterback is then carted off the field — the offending team certainly has gained an illegal edge. A case can be made that what Williams and the New Orleans Saints did actually is worse because now we’re not just talking about winning a game, we’re talking about endangering an athlete’s livelihood.
That’s why most believe Goodell will hit the Saints and Williams hard.
What are your thoughts on this? Is “Bountygate” worse than “Spygate,” and do you consider the Saints cheaters?
I’ve also posted a poll on the topic. I look forward to your thoughts on this.
By Jeff Schultz
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
190 comments Add your comment
Grayson Scott
March 6th, 2012
5:37 am
Spygate is worse for the integrity of the game. Period. Numerous teams have been using a bounty system for a long, long time. But other than the Broncos, when they had Bellicheat Jr. as their coach are known to have blatantly cheated via videotaping. Case Closed!
Buckeye
March 6th, 2012
6:40 am
Hey dogs
Sounds like Hashbrowns-gate is getting disrespected!!!!!
Scott B
March 6th, 2012
7:00 am
The Falcons–
DAT Who!
Bud Wiser
March 6th, 2012
7:16 am
Oh come on Jeff, this is no big deal because it’s the Saints, man!
The Saints ….. darlings of the national media, ESPN in particular.
The Saints … everyon’e love story after Katrina, how they rebuilt and revitalized the very heart of New Orleans (now when was that, 25-30 years ago?).
Now let me say this – I’d trade straight up for 50% of a Drew Brees against 100% of Matty Frights, not to mention the off-the-field community and family guy you’d get as well.
Sean Payton is shoulder-deep in this as well, and should be equally reprimanded by Goodell, but he probably won’t. The NoFunLeague has its scapegoat in Williams, and the soner this is swept under their golden carpet, the better.
The same train of thought and logic that led to the dismisal of the late Joe Paterno at Penn State for the actions of his subordinates is here.
Watch and see.
All bluster, little action.
Road Scholar
March 6th, 2012
7:29 am
Whoever devised the plan for bountygate for each team should be outright fired. Anyone accepting the payout should be suspended for a year, regardless of position. We’re talking integrity of the game here.
Mike Jordan
March 6th, 2012
7:34 am
One aspect of this entire issue that is not being discussed enough is the failure of the Saints were told to investigate the existence of a bounty program and shut it down if it existed. Their failure to carry out this enforcement of policy and league rules demonstrates their belief in their invulnerability and superiority. These delusional beliefs have been evident since Payton and Brees arrived.
Fred C. Die Hard WHO DAT!!!!
March 6th, 2012
7:58 am
If My Saints was Intentionally trying to injure other players then that is the referee job to penalize the in the game.I believe the Media as always blows things out of proportion.The Saints won every game fair and square. All you other die hard fans would feel the same!!! As for you HATERS you Teams just could not be this great!!! If you don’t want you QB hit then tell your ofensiveline to block.All players get paid to do a job wheter its with stickers or Cash. These our Men !! GLADIATORS of the modern era. It is still called TACKLE football not flag.So i think All Haters take a chill pill. We as PROUD WHO DAT FANS knows it does not matter if the nfl fines us or take away our draft picks.The SAINTS and THE WHO DAT NATION will still DOMINATE !!!
tfalcon
March 6th, 2012
8:16 am
Yea u guys gonna dominate,ur working out randy moss today are u wondering why if not its because colton,meachem will be gone and thier looking for a cheap replacement which is cool.But down play this all u want the loss of Nicks from wanting his payday is going to hurt ur O line play,which in turn will hurt ur run ,pass play plan and simple.
For any of u fans that dont admit that then u are so blind,We will
be glad to see just how dominat u guys will be
papa rider
March 6th, 2012
8:39 am
I think Williams should be borrowed from football for life. Football is already a tough sport where players can have carreer ending injuries. I think the Commissioner should make an example out of Williams. If it is proven that others in the Saints organization were aware of the practice and did nothing to stop it, they should also be borrowed. There should also be suspension of player who collected the bounty for several games..
I'm Gumby, Dammit
March 6th, 2012
8:43 am
I couldn’t help but notice that Seen this B4 hasn’t joined in the conservation. He’s probably busy cleaning Payton’s soiled laundry.
saintsation777
March 6th, 2012
9:00 am
Now even though the bounties were disgusting and stupid especially for a sorry defense as my Saints have been the last 3 years, I can’t remember seeing any QB or WR taken off the field at all. Especially Atlanta who had all their players on the field when they lost 5 of 6 during that span. The offense had nothing to do with that disgusting Greg Williams when they poured it on you all and other teams. SOund like petty jealousy to me. When Vick was caught with dogs I supported him and felt sorry for you people at the time.
Samuel L. Jackson
March 6th, 2012
9:08 am
Honestly some of the posts on here made me laugh. Have you seen the Saints defense play the last 2 seasons? Anybody on the Saints defensive unit who collected a “bounty” should immediately issue a refund! The Saints D was awful!!
Furthermore, lets see some proof of guys carted off injured due to late hits by the Saints. Other than Favre in the NFC title game (which if you watched the whole play and not Favre being hit Bobby McCray was pushed into Favre’s legs by a lineman) who was injured?
The Saints were regularly flagged for late hits in the 2011 season, most of which were horrible calls. Several of the calls were later recinded by the NFL officiating committee and fines were not issued. I know this is a Falcons website so I get it, but I am a bit confused about the national media making this out to be like the Saints were crippling players (they weren’t) and the hits they are showing on ESPN were all legal hits and didn’t draw flags. I could understand if the Saints defenders were diving at players knees or head hunting in the secondary, but again the Saints have been wretched defensively. The Saints were probably more afraid of opposing offenses than the other way around ha ha
Larry
March 6th, 2012
9:11 am
Does the word “Battery” or “Assault”bring any fear into the conversation. If you intend to hurt someone and succeed isn;t thst illegal buy not only NFL rules , but local and country wide law. Could the offenders be arrested? I think some DA’s may be already looking at films and woundweing if this is punishable by law.
globeflyer
March 6th, 2012
9:20 am
Bountygate…..not even close.
Ken Stallings
March 6th, 2012
10:00 am
Perhaps the quality of football at all levels, and the integrity, would be improved by changing the mindset of what constitutes a good tackle. The bonuses (whether pizza or $10,000) should be for a form tackle — you know, when you hit the guy square, wrap him up, and put him on the ground. That type of tackle is less likely to be broke, and less likely to cause injury.
The kill shots used to get on the ESPN highlights, but ESPN stopped showing them because they recognized they were generally poor tackles and often caused injury to one or both players.
Looking at the epidemic of poor tackling up and down football today, it seems a lot of it is the encroachment of going for the glamour hit where the defender stands tall over the guy he just knocked to the ground. Looks nice for the papers and the video highlight shows. But, too often the offensive player gets knocked back a bit, but still on his feet running. Or, in the effort to deliver the kill shot the defender whiffs and the offensive player blows right past for 20 more yards, or a TD.
EGM
March 6th, 2012
10:05 am
Spying is by far the worse. Spying hurts the fairnes and integrity of the game.
Freddie Blassie
March 6th, 2012
10:06 am
Oh my! Football players trying to knock other players out of the game? Why it’s barbaric! It makes me want to see the opposing teams hugging each other and sorting out their feelings about each other.
The only bounties being paid are to all the parasites living off the game and changing the rules to impair defenses because the focus groups tell them they’d like more scoring. Cannot even think about hitting a quarterback! A ballcarrier was thinking about running out of bounds and you tackled him?! Fifteen yards! A mean defender bumped a receiver when he was 5.43 yards from the line of scrimmage.
You people are candies. Rules are changed so that you cannot bump pass receivers after they are five yards past the line so they have an advantage, but pass rushers get to the quarterback and tackle him hard. What do we do? Let’s change the rules so that linemen can hold. The pass rushers are still tackling the quarterback! What now? Penalties for hitting the passer with a helmet or tackling him too hard.
Bounties have been around forever. Actually putting the guy out of the game is very tough to do and collecting on a bounty is damned impossible.
Simon and Garfunkel are the rules committee.
Cannonball Butler
March 6th, 2012
10:10 am
It’s only a scandal because it was made public. It won’t stop other teams because it has gone on for years and you can not stop it completely. If players take it out of the locker room to another venue does that mean it goes away? The only scandal is that the Coach/GM may have been openly encouraging this. With or without their approval it happened and will continue to happen.
One could even argue whether or not it is cheating. If someone is hit hard and gets injured does that mean a bounty was on someone? Face it-these players are paid by owners, to do what they were doing. Unless a player is flagged for a penalty how is it dirty?
Football is a tough sport. People get hit and fans, and the media, glory in the hits. It is the closest thing we have to blood sport.
Jimbo
March 6th, 2012
10:31 am
They should strike off the Superbowl win, take the tropy and rings away from all the players. Fire the coaches. Hang the owner by a noose in the French Quarter. Implode the Superdome. – I bet anything that the Falcons have a similar program in their defensive team rooms, so they should suffer the same consequences – Oh, I’m sorry, no Superbowl win, rings, or trophies to take away…
Sid
March 6th, 2012
11:01 am
Not much of an article here and it seems you know it “I might have more on the New Orleans situation in a blog later”. I’m delighted for the penalties soon to come the Saints way and the muzzling effect it has had on the A hole peeshwank NO bloggers who live to infest.
Sid
March 6th, 2012
11:08 am
If you think Bobby McCray’s hit on Kurt Warner was not meant to maim or injure you are an idiot. McCray was thinking bounty when he hit him……………….the cheapest shot I have ever seen on the field.
Cannonball Butler
March 6th, 2012
11:15 am
I believe Warner called that a clean hit.
Sid
March 6th, 2012
11:18 am
Jimbo
March 6th, 2012
10:31 am
They should strike off the Superbowl win, take the tropy and rings away from all the players. Fire the coaches. Hang the owner by a noose in the French Quarter. Implode the Superdome. –
************************************************
It’s gonna be fun………….We’re just gonna laugh our butts off. Enjoy Jimbo.
Conspiracy Theory
March 6th, 2012
11:31 am
The really interesting thing will be when policing agencies (local police, state SBI, FBI) start to investigate this. Looks like a conspiracy to injure/maim others, a felony in most jurisdictions. Some folks are going to jail over this…The time when governments would look the other way just because it is a sport is over. Reference: Penn State.
Sid
March 6th, 2012
11:55 am
Cannonball Butler
March 6th, 2012
11:15 am
I believe Warner called that a clean hit.
************************************************
Warner didn’t call it “clean”, he called it legal.
Sid
March 6th, 2012
12:04 pm
Conspiracy Theory
March 6th, 2012
11:31 am
The really interesting thing will be when policing agencies (local police, state SBI, FBI) start to investigate this. Looks like a conspiracy to injure/maim others, a felony in most jurisdictions. Some folks are going to jail over this…The time when governments would look the other way just because it is a sport is over. Reference: Penn State.
*************************************************
Is this Mel Gibson?
The correlation with Penn State is weak.
Rest in Peace JoePa.
Tango Sierra
March 6th, 2012
12:04 pm
Todd Grantham makes Williams look like a piker by comparison. If you’re looking for sleaze, look at UGA.
trademark
March 6th, 2012
12:48 pm
The Saints Trolls are the only ones stupid enough in the entire world to try to defend this….congrats, you have redefined the term brainless.
5150 UOAD
March 6th, 2012
12:52 pm
trademark……….not so. As long as it is a LEGAL Hit with no penalty flag then it is GOOD FOOTBALL. Please don’t think ALL Defensive players are not trying to take the other guy out. IT IS THE GAME.
Sid
March 6th, 2012
12:55 pm
……………….and the hits just keep on playing. Brees is mad about the franchise tag, he might be there this year but guess what………..if he won’t sign it he would be worth the 2 first round draft choices.
***********************************************************************
trademark
March 6th, 2012
12:48 pm
The Saints Trolls are the only ones stupid enough in the entire world to try to defend this….congrats, you have redefined the term brainless.
High Five trademark, couldn’t have put have been said better.
Sid
March 6th, 2012
1:01 pm
There we go, a legal cheap shot.
tardawg
March 6th, 2012
1:17 pm
DP you ought to be working for the NFL you got the right ideas, we were discussing this at work and not only should williams be banned from the NFL I can’t imagine a college would want him he might be get to be a high school coach but programs I’ve been around wouldn’t hire him to coach our pop Warner programs.
5150 UOAD
March 6th, 2012
1:17 pm
SID go pull up your skirt and pull down your panties and sit while you pee you lil girl.
Sid
March 6th, 2012
1:19 pm
A legal cheap shot took out Ovie’s knee. Yeah, good football.
5150 UOAD
March 6th, 2012
1:32 pm
SID it is FOOTBALL not powder puff of lil league. the NFL keeps SCORE. This ain’t everybody wins and gets a trophy crap. You are not playing the game so don’t worry about it. The Players assume the risk because of the benefit of the money. They went to college and could be using their education to work earning money in some other industry.
Sid
March 6th, 2012
1:35 pm
5150 UOAD
March 6th, 2012
1:17 pm
SID go pull up your skirt and pull down your panties and sit while you pee you lil girl.
*************************************************
Wow, an intellectual butt whuppin’. You seem to have that sittin’ down to pee all figured out.
Here are some of your awesome comments:
5150 UOAD
November 23rd, 2011
7:08 pm
Have a happy Thanksgiving Ken.
5150 UOAD
November 23rd, 2011
8:08 pm
Jabster………….Sorry but I don’t care what a bowl is ranked. I want to go to a bowl in a town I want to visit. I like Nashville. Don’t care much for Orlando, Miami, or Jacksonville.
5150 UOAD
November 23rd, 2011
9:33 pm
Sorry Spike I would not travel to El Paso. I would stay in Atlanta before heading to Texas for that bowl game.
5150 UOAD
November 24th, 2011
10:10 am
Super Committee……………….why did you marry a Tech girl? You wanted a Lady? You wanted a Lady with Brains? I bet you wanted a lady with Classy. Most of all I bet you wanted a lady and not some drunk chick that has given more rides than a MARTA Bus
5150 UOAD
November 24th, 2011
10:17 am
If Tech’s Defense plays like a UGA Coed on a Friday night at a Frat house we will be in trouble.
I know both teams can score. It really comes down to who can hold on to the ball.
5150 UOAD
November 24th, 2011
10:19 am
Same to you Supersize. I guess I will watch the Lions game later
***********************************************
Intellectually I feel so overmatched, please oh please don’t pick on me. MORON
Sid
March 6th, 2012
1:38 pm
A cheap shot, legal or not, is still a cheap shot.
Sid
March 6th, 2012
1:39 pm
5150 UOAD
March 6th, 2012
1:32 pm
You are not playing the game so don’t worry about it.
******************************************************
OMG, I didn’t know you were a real football player. WOW!!!!!
Patriots are real saints compared to the Aints
March 6th, 2012
1:46 pm
Don’t trust a man with three “G’s” in Greg(g) (Willams)….Pats at
hechler & Koch
March 18th, 2012
12:30 am
hey sid stfu u troll im not even a saints fan and even i KNOW bountygate and spygate were both overblown by media and idiot fans like you! spygate and bounty gate have been going on since the mid 80’s you imbecile little punk