What’s worse: Saints’ ‘BountyGate’ or Patriots’ ‘Spygate’?
Gregg Williams messed with players' livelihoods.
Bill Belichick was hammered for taping signals.
The Falcons are about to get some very good news. Their primary competition in the NFC South, the New Orleans Saints, are expected to get slapped by NFL commissioner Roger Goodell for a “bounty” program by former defensive coordinator Gregg Williams.
We can’t be sure yet what the penalties will be, but the Saints are expected to lose some high draft picks. Williams, now with the St. Louis Rams, likely will be suspended for several games, possibly the entire season. Both parties also will get fined — which is sort of like Goodell collecting his own bounty.
My initial thought when I heard about the bounty program actually was not one of surprise, but maybe a little disgust. I don’t condone it. I just don’t believe it’s that uncommon. We celebrate football players for hard hits all the way down to the youth level. So we shouldn’t be surprised that a coach or a player is being rewarded for it — whether it’s a pizza in Pop Warner or $10,000 in the NFL.
Loading ...I might have more on the New Orleans situation in a blog later. But for now, here’s my question (which I openly admit stealing from my pal, Tim Cowlishaw, of the Dallas Morning News). In your mind, is Williams’ bounty program with the Saints worse than the New England Patriots’ “Spygate” scandal?
Both are a form of cheating. Goodell found the Patriots in violation of league rules for filming the sideline hand signals of the New York Jets in 2007. He fined Bill Belichick $500,000 (the largest fine ever against a coach), the team $250,000 and took away a first-round draft pick.
Bounties are cheating on another level — a dirtier level. If a player feels extra motivation to take a cheapshot at the opposing quarterback because he’ll be rewarded for it — and that quarterback is then carted off the field — the offending team certainly has gained an illegal edge. A case can be made that what Williams and the New Orleans Saints did actually is worse because now we’re not just talking about winning a game, we’re talking about endangering an athlete’s livelihood.
That’s why most believe Goodell will hit the Saints and Williams hard.
What are your thoughts on this? Is “Bountygate” worse than “Spygate,” and do you consider the Saints cheaters?
I’ve also posted a poll on the topic. I look forward to your thoughts on this.
By Jeff Schultz
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190 comments Add your comment
OWB
March 5th, 2012
1:29 pm
Really? You start a blog of which one is worse? God you def are a san fran stupid liberal idiot.
doc hollywood
March 5th, 2012
1:33 pm
This is all about NFL PR. The league is all about money and they are worried about the soccer moms of the world not letting their little tykes play the game as it is perceived to be too dangerous. Every defenseman on every team is trying to take people out on every play. This amount of money here is pocket change to these guys and is way overhyped.
5150 UOAD
March 5th, 2012
1:34 pm
the other involves a deliberate, calculated, compensated and predetermination to maliciously injure or maim another human being.
LARRY
you just wrote the BEST definition of Football, Fighting & War I have ever read. Since you don’t like Football, Fighting & War please go watch Soccer, Basketball & Chess.
GT Alum
March 5th, 2012
1:35 pm
It’s not even close. Yes, football is a violent game, and players are going to get hurt playing it. But systematically trying to hurt opposing players is unnecessary and dangerous, and a coach having a system that enciurages players to injure opponents is far worse than just the cheating aspect. You’re not only affecting someone’s career, but their long and short-term health. How many concussions and other injuries that have long-term impacts might’ve been inflicted because of this system?
It will be interesting to see what penalties the league imposes, but there’s also been the mention of possible criminal charges, and that could be interesting as well. I don’t how likely a local DA would be to bring charges against the local sports team for something like this, but that would be a further deterrent.
Vacate the Aints’ Super Bowl win!
Jeff
March 5th, 2012
1:37 pm
SpyGate—- that was cheating. What the saints or (Aint’s) did was to have to pay extra for the players to actually or finally tackle somebody.
which is wrong too. Especially when they were already getting paid….
5150 UOAD
March 5th, 2012
1:37 pm
doc hollywood….these guys bet and lose more playing poker on the plane flights.
Danny O
March 5th, 2012
1:37 pm
The bounty stuff is definitely worse than videotaping the practice sessions of other teams. I’m no Patriot apologist, but they were simply trying to figure out what schemes and plays their opponents were working on, which could sway results come game time. Providing financial incentives to injure your competitors is on a different level entirely. Worst case scenario is that you end someone’s playing career, and possibly diminish their quality of life for good.
GT Alum
March 5th, 2012
1:39 pm
Soccer can be pretty violent, too, UOAD. Don’t you remember the head butt? And there’s violence both on and off the field in soccer. Baseball is probably less violent than soccer. Tennis and golf are really nonviolent sports.
Danny O
March 5th, 2012
1:39 pm
@OWB: How on earth did you get to political persuasion from this topic?
JJ12
March 5th, 2012
1:41 pm
AGAIN people, there was never any videtaping of other teams practices by the Pats, that was a rumor that spread that was later disproven.
5150 UOAD
March 5th, 2012
1:41 pm
If it happens after the start of a play and stops at the whistle with no penalty involved then it is FOOTBALL. If you don’t want to RISK this then don’t take at a minimum of $450,000.00 to play the game and go work at Xerox or something.
Danny O
March 5th, 2012
1:43 pm
The amounts don’t matter. Any financial incentives for (potentially) illegal play undermine the rules of the game. Furthermore, compensation that is not included in th player contract may violate the salary cap, which is key to the competitiveness and parity that helps the NFL stand out from other professional sports.
Najeh Davenpoop
March 5th, 2012
1:44 pm
“This is all about NFL PR. ”
Exactly.
Roger Goodell, the biggest phony in sports, cares deeply about NFL injuries… until it comes time to talk about 18 game seasons, which he fully supports.
Danny O
March 5th, 2012
1:44 pm
@JJ12: Well, whatever the Patriots did, it was not nearly as bad as paying players under the table to injure opponents.
Larry
March 5th, 2012
1:54 pm
5150 UOAD,
If you’re equating football with war you have some serious issues.
And I did play the game…and carried a gun too!
Danny O
March 5th, 2012
1:56 pm
The NFL is the poster child for successful professional sports. All of the other leagues would kill to have the sort of TV deals and mass appeal that the NFL has. What is the single biggest threat to the unprecedented success of the NFL right now? It’s devastating injury to the players, which cuts careers short (either by choice of the player or not) and is currently manifesting itself as a large class action lawsuit.
The league has every reason to make sure that injuries are kept to a minimum, and that when injuries occur they take place within the scope of the rules. If a team is encouraging illegal play through illegal payments, then the NFL would be crazy not to come down hard on the violators, because this issue is currently causing major PR and legal problems, and might wind up costing the owners a lot of money. Regardless of how you feel about hard hits, this is the reality and you have to expect the league to respond swiftly and sternly in order to protect the interest of the owners.
5150 UOAD
March 5th, 2012
1:57 pm
Larry Football has been equated with WAR for better than 100 years. Where the F have you been?
abby normal
March 5th, 2012
1:59 pm
BountyGate is far worse in my opinion. To have a policy in place that rewards players for intentionally injuring other players is unconscionable. There is no way to justify it. SpyGate was bad but it did not have the potential to end someones career. Goodell has the opportunity to sent a very strong message to the rest of the league and I think it should be a combination of heavy fines, loss of draft picks and the year-long suspension(without pay) of Williams, Loomis and Payton.
5150 UOAD
March 5th, 2012
2:01 pm
get rid of HELMETS and the injuries would go down eventually. The helmet has allowed players to play more reckless than ever before. Smaller motorcycle like shoulder pads and chest protectors too. Eliminate more SAFETY equipment and the players will not be a reckless.
Die Hard Falcon
March 5th, 2012
2:01 pm
NO question, the bounty program, the part about knockout hits and ending games/seasons, is WAY worse. This is someone’s health and livelihood. Cheap shots by a classless team. I echo many sentiments about them getting all the calls post katrina, it seemed like the Falcons were consistently getting screwed on calls especially when brees was going for the record last year, classless.
LawDawg–I would have to disagree, players aren’t always trying to injure someone when they hit them, some guys on some plays sure, but mostly they just want a solid, legal shot and stop them from scoring, I don’t think that the majority of players/teams are trying to injure someone, what goes around comes around.
Go Falcons!!!
Karl Childers
March 5th, 2012
2:10 pm
I’ll tell you what’s worst of all. Lazy journalists who insist on adding the word “gate” to other words as some kind of universal shorthand description for a scandal. Watergate was forty years ago. Give it a rest, dude.
Great Falconi
March 5th, 2012
2:22 pm
The Patriots’ spying is worse than what the Saints were doing. Most teams don’t do what the Saints have been doing, but defensive players have been pooling money together for years for bounties/bonuses. I don’t like cheating, so Belichick wins this one.
rivercard
March 5th, 2012
2:25 pm
Spygate was cheating – worse in my book.
Unless someone confesses to making an illegal hit that they would not have otherwise made due to bounty, I will side with LawDawg and 5150. This is much ado about nothing and something chicken hawk sportswriters can get all self-righteous about.
That being said it is against the rules and the coaches being involved was idiotic. Loomis and coaches have some rough times ahead.
IlliniBrave
March 5th, 2012
2:27 pm
My obsessive hatred for the Saints now has an object! Thank you, all the d-bags down in NOLA for giving us a justification for despising your team.
rivercard
March 5th, 2012
2:28 pm
Schultz or anyone on the board -
Please explain the success of Peter King to me. Other than access to info , he has 0.00% insight into the game of football and his writing is dreadful and boring.
Boom Dizzle
March 5th, 2012
2:33 pm
Bounty Gate is without a doubt worse. Spygate is simply cheating with film. Bounty Gate you are messing with people’s lives potentially. You already are getting paid to hit people, why the extra incentive to be a d-bag?
TheAntiMe
March 5th, 2012
2:35 pm
I don’t believe this bounty business for a minute. After all, the whole team must be pretty tight with the Man upstairs (and no I don’t mean Roger Goodell) since they are Saints. If this is true then New Orleans should be forced to change the name of the team from the Saints to the Drunken Goons.
Donte
March 5th, 2012
2:40 pm
Spygate was just a miscalculated attempt to LEGALLY tape signals by going around or wording rules differently. Bountygate was paying players to INTENTIONALLY injure other players, no matter what the cost. Bountygate was worse. But the Patriots and the Saints are still 2 of my favorite teams, and 2 of the best teams.
CAPT-ATL
March 5th, 2012
2:47 pm
Rivercard, it is about who you know, not what you know. Heck, Obama is the President. That proves the point in itself, but I agree, PK lacks the talent to capture a reader or paint a story. As a Falcon fan, it is my duty to dig (just as as Saint’s fan, your duty is to dig at playoff records and the Vick scandal). A wise woman once said…. “Bounty, the quicker picker upper. Rest her soul, but Nancy Walker was a prophet. I’d be lying if I said this has not made the offseason more enjoyable.
mutiger
March 5th, 2012
3:00 pm
IMO, Bountygate is worse because it violates any and all beliefs in sportsmanship. As much as I hate the Patriots and question the full legitimacy of their titles because of Spygate, all teams try to decipher their opponents signals during the game. The Patriots just took it the next step and stole them before the game (for the record, I’m not defending them). Both the Patriots and Saints were cheating to gain an advantage (stealing signals vs. injuring star players), but the Saints’ method threatened (and in some cases, ended) the careers of players. That is inexcusable. Kurt Warner, Troy Aikman, and (to some extent) Brett Favre, all lost their careers to Gregg Williams’ defenses. There is even a good chance that the hit that knocked Peyton out this season (’06 vs the Redskins) can be traced to these bounties. Williams should be banned for life.
Najeh Davenpoop
March 5th, 2012
3:05 pm
“Please explain the success of Peter King to me. Other than access to info , he has 0.00% insight into the game of football and his writing is dreadful and boring.”
You may enjoy these. They put up a new one every week.
heartofdarkness
March 5th, 2012
3:06 pm
My feeling is, if the object of the game is to injure players, arm the players and even things up for the smaller guys.
bali
March 5th, 2012
3:06 pm
take off the skirts and let em play ball…..sure other teams are doing the same,saints just got the fine..tired of 7 on 7 drills being passed off as football…maybe the falcons need to get some bounty action going
chewyandrw
March 5th, 2012
3:08 pm
SpyGate is far worse. If you look at what the Saints did it in the time frame of which it was done, it was 99% clean, hard hits. Its not like he (Williams) was asking the players to do Three Stooges moves or take brass knuckles on the field with them. This happens more often than people think on all levels.
kimmer
March 5th, 2012
3:13 pm
Lets see….what is a worse form of cheating…..
a) Incentivizing players for knocking out an opponent while subject to the rules of the game on the field (unnecessary roughness, late hit, illegal block, etc, etc.) and off the field (fines, suspensions) that are intended to protect players. Never mind that a players can and do the exact same thing with no incentive.
or….
b) Surreptitiously stealing signals so that you know what play your opponent is about to run.
Anybody with half a brain would say b)
Bounty hunting may be unseemly, dirty, unsportsmanlike or whatever but it doesn’t give one team a tactical advantage which spying most certainly does.
5150 UOAD
March 5th, 2012
3:15 pm
Like RAY LEWIS doesn’t play to HURT players.
These are the Sweetest players on Defense in the modern era and they NEVER tried to HURT anybody.
Doug Atkins (DE) 1953-1969 Elvin Bethea (DE) 1968-1983 Junious (Buck) Buchanan (DT) 1963-1975 Willie Davis (DE) 1958-1969 Fred Dean (DE) 1975-1985 Richard Dent 1983-1997 Chris Doleman (DE, LB) 1985-1999 Art Donovan (DT) 1950-1961 Carl Eller (DE) 1964-1979 Len Ford (DE) 1948-1958 Joe Greene (DT) 1969-1981 Dan Hampton (DT-DE) 1979-1990 David (Deacon) Jones (DE) 1961-1974 Henry Jordan (DT) 1957-1969 Cortez Kennedy (DT) 1990-2000 Bob Lilly (DT) 1961-1974 Howie Long (DE) 1981-1993 Gino Marchetti (DE) 1952-1964, 1966 Leo Nomellini (DT) 1950-1963 Merlin Olsen (DT) 1962-1976 Alan Page (DT) 1967-1981 John Randle 1990-2003 Andy Robustelli (DE) 1951-1964 Lee Roy Selmon (DE) 1976-1984 Bruce Smith 1985-2003 Ernie Stautner (DT) 1950-1963 Arnie Weinmeister (DT) 1948-1953 Randy White (DT) 1975-1988 Reggie White (DT-DE) 1985-1998, 2000 Bill Willis (MG) 1946-1953 Jack Youngblood (DE) 1971-1984 Chuck Bednarik (C-LB) 1949-1962 Bobby Bell (also DE) 1963-1974 Nick Buoniconti 1962-1974, 1976 Dick Butkus 1965-1973 Harry Carson 1976-1988 George Connor (also DT, OT) 1948-1955 Chris Doleman (DE, LB) 1985-1999 Bill George 1952-1966 Jack Ham 1971-1982 Chris Hanburger 1965-1978 Ted Hendricks 1969-1983 Sam Huff 1956-1967, 1969 Rickey Jackson LB (also DE) 1981-1995 Jack Lambert 1974-1984 Willie Lanier 1967-1977 Ray Nitschke 1958-1972 Les Richter 1954-1962 Joe Schmidt 1953-1965 Mike Singletary 1981-1992 Lawrence Taylor 1981-1993 Derrick Thomas 1989-1999 Andre Tippett 1982-1993 Dave Wilcox 1964-1974 Herb Adderley (CB) 1961-1972 Lem Barney (CB) 1967-1977 Mel Blount (CB) 1970-1983 Willie Brown (CB) 1963-1978 Jack Butler (CB) 1951-59 Jack Christiansen (S) 1951-1958 Darrell Green (CB) 1983-2002 Mike Haynes (CB) 1976-1989 Ken Houston (S) 1967-1980 Jimmy Johnson (CB) 1961-1976 Paul Krause (S) 1964-1979 Dick (Night Train) Lane (CB) 1952-1965 Yale Lary (S) 1952-1953, 1956-1964 Dick LeBeau (CB) 1959-1972 Ronnie Lott (CB-S) 1981-1994 Mel Renfro (S-CB) 1964-1977 Deion Sanders (CB-KR-PR) 1989-2000, 2004-2005 Emmitt Thomas (CB) 1966-1978 Emlen Tunnell (S) 1948-1961 Roger Wehrli 1969-1982 Larry Wilson (S) 1960-1972 Willie Wood (S) 1960-1971 Rod Woodson 1987-2003
They are ALL in the hall of Fame for playing Sweet and not trying to KILL the QBs, RBs & WRs during the game
Lighten Up Francis and leave your Skirt at home.
Colin
March 5th, 2012
3:34 pm
Spygate took on a life of its own, that strayed far from reality. People wanted to believe that the Patriots were aware of team’s gameplans and Tom Brady knew every defensive play before the snap. The reality is that teams can videotape/steal opponents hand signals from designated places in the stadium like the pressbox. The Patriots were doing it from the sideline instead. An infraction worth punishment, yes, but not to the extent that some media sensationalism portrayed it to be. If you focus on the facts, then I don’t know how you could consider intentionally trying to hurt another player in the fraternity of the NFL anything short of repulsing. Bountygate gets my vote.
Von
March 5th, 2012
3:38 pm
To the Falcons and they’re fans, the NFL coming down hard on the Saints is the only way you can beat them. Why isn’t anyone talking about the guy who leaked the story in the first place? That’s what I want to know.
Whatever
March 5th, 2012
3:59 pm
Don’t see how this benefits the Falcons or hurts the Saints if the Rams coach is suspended for few games. So they lose a #1 pick? We gave ours away voluntarily.
Patrick Romano WAR DAMN EAGLE
March 5th, 2012
4:05 pm
Kudos, Larry has it right,
Jeff, Come ON MAN!
One involves a camera while the other involves a deliberate, calculated, compensated and predetermination to maliciously injure or maim another human being. This is like asking if a perjury or forgery is more serious than a rape or aggregated battery!
Come on, man!
BiggDawgK
March 5th, 2012
4:18 pm
What a surprise that 5150 the poster who thinks death and rape are something to make fun of would be in favor of bountys. He is the perfect spokesman for ga text and coach chop block.
Pamela
March 5th, 2012
4:21 pm
You know it really doesn’t matter if the Saints lose their 1st draft pick..big deal! We are still going to beat the pants off the FAILCANTS…I have seen first hand the FAILCANTS doing that to all of the teams they have tried to play. It’s so sad and sorry how you FAILCANTS fans are really so excited thinking that you have one up on the World Champions Saints…this has YET to be proven, then you must understand that we still will beat the brakes off of your sorry team EVERYTIME we play you all next season! GEAUX SAINTS!!!
WHO DAT???
rivercard
March 5th, 2012
4:29 pm
Najeh- Thanks. I needed a good laugh.
Matt the Brave
March 5th, 2012
4:30 pm
But was it worse than Watergate, or Monicagate, or Iraqgate, or Obamagate? Ug. Please please please stop using -gate for every scandal. It’s just lazy reporting.
Peter
March 5th, 2012
4:31 pm
Bountygate, and the fact the Saints players and coaches have totally disrespected the league, each player on the other teams, and their family’s.
David
March 5th, 2012
4:32 pm
Did not take long for the no class Taints fans to show up on the blog and start spewing their garbage. Ever been to a Falcons/ Saints game in the Georgia Dome? Saints fans are by far the worst, most low class fans by a long shot. I am among a good many people I know that will not go to a Falcons/ Saints game. Way to many thugs in the stands, just not a safe or fun family environment. How do they get tickets? Must be able to exchange for tickets and transportation with food stamps in NO I guess.
BiggDawgK
March 5th, 2012
4:38 pm
Pamela
Obviously you are already drunk just like most of the trash that calls themselves taint’s fans. The nfl handed your thugs a free championship because it made a good story and everyone pitys y’all. I find it strange that all the trash in that cespool of new orleans are happy that they live off the handouts of everyone else. You still are too stupid to see or too ashamed to admit that the taint’s didn’t earn anything at all. LOL LOL LOL LOL It was a gift and instead of thanking the nfl the taint’s spit in their masters face.
I’m sure Goodell is an understanding guy who won’t be angry and vindictive after the taint’s made him look like a chump for allowing them to cheat. The taint’s are finished.
hush child
March 5th, 2012
4:41 pm
to bad they got caught…damn!
KNOW YOUR SPORT
March 5th, 2012
4:42 pm
5150 UOAD, FYI ED” TO TALL” JONES IS NOT IN THE HALL OF FAME.
Danny O
March 5th, 2012
4:42 pm
David: Please get out of Atlanta. We don’t want or need you repping our town. It is because of people like you that Atlanta is consistently mocked for having such poor fans. If you’re too scared to go to a Falcons game because of the visiting spectators than you’re not a real fan. Real fans show up and get loud to support their team.