Needed reminder: Jason Heyward isn’t a finished product
Jason Heyward says this isn't the first time in his baseball life he has had to come back from failure. (Jason Getz/AJC)
LAKE BUENA VISTA, Fla. – This is what we do, and by “we,” I mean everybody – fans, media, ex-athletes who now clutch microphones, the occasional bitter coach or scout, certainly that anonymous subculture that exists behind wacky screen names and disseminates wonderful new damning statistics that were invented, like, seven minutes earlier.
In Year 1, we embraced and celebrated.
“Hitting a home run on Opening Day — that was awesome,” Jason Heyward recalled Wednesday.
In Year 2, we questioned and trashed.
“Unfortunately I got hurt and I can’t control that,” he added moments later. “And as far as fans, media, whatever — I can’t control that, either.”
Why do we do this?
Jason Heyward is 22 years old. Sometimes, it’s easy to forget that. Were you a finished product and ready for public consumption/dissection at 22? We watch and hear about athletes from the time they’re in high school now, and something in our brain says, “OK, I’ve known this kid for five years. He should be ready.”
Heyward was runner-up for the National League’s Rookie of the Year award in 2010. He hit .277 with 18 homers and 72 RBIs. His first major league at-bat: a three-run homer. He was projected as the Braves’ next great star. He was forecast as Atlanta’s next great sports icon. Young, athletic, good looking, Atlanta native, African American — marketing nirvana for the home franchise.
Everybody started erecting the scaffolding for the elevated stage a little too soon — because that’s what we do.
So when a few things started to go wrong last season – the slow start, the shoulder injury, the messed-up swing as a result of changes prompted by the injury, the drop in production that led some fans to scream, “We want more Jose Constanza!” – Heyward faced public criticism for the first time. When Chipper Jones said Heyward needed to learn what injuries he can play through, some concluded he was throwing Heyward under the bus. (He wasn’t.)
Fred McGriff's early pains were lower profile. (Jason Getz/AJC).
The spotlight can be overwhelming for a young athlete when so much is expected so soon. Former Brave Fred McGriff has been in camp this week and worked with Heyward, watching him in the cage and counseling him. McGriff said he had it easier when he broke into the majors with Toronto.
“When I came up, I played with Lloyd Moseby, George Bell, all those older guys,” he said. “They hit me eighth in the order, so I had a lot less pressure on me. If I did well, great. If I didn’t, that was OK, too. I could ease into it.”
Heyward says he’s fine. He also wants to correct a few misconceptions: This isn’t the first time in his baseball life that something has gone wrong. It’s just the first time on such a grand stage. So the obvious question: How does he respond?
“All of us got here by doing what we know how to do, whether it’s mentally, physically, what have you,” Heyward said. “You want to stay as close to that as possible. Keep having fun, keep trying to get better. I’m 22 years old, and I didn’t get here this quickly by not making adjustments, by not learning on the fly, by not handling pressure situations, by not knowing how fans or media might take things. I’ve done a lot of things the right way, and that’s why I am who I am and part of the reason why I’ve been successful.”
He has had a lot of people in his ear. Probably too many. As general manager Frank Wren said, “From the time you have an 0-fer, somebody’s got a reason why. It could be as simple as, ‘The pitcher’s better than me today.’ Sometimes we try to make it way too complicated. Sometimes you just have to take a deep breath and go after it again.”
Heyward will do that. Depending on how this season goes, he’ll be viewed as either the next Clemente or the next Francoeur. Because unfortunately, that’s what we do.
By Jeff Schultz
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103 comments Add your comment
Zach
February 29th, 2012
1:56 pm
Just let him play and he should be alright.
Dawgdad (The Original)
February 29th, 2012
2:05 pm
Too many opinions can be overwhelming to a young guy, but he should listen closely to the Crime Dog, he should have way more standing that some of the other wanna bees that are giving advice.
Herschel Talker
February 29th, 2012
2:16 pm
Schultzie:
Maybe we can put Crime Dog on the roster to pinch hit. At 48, I bet he’s still better than that clown Matt Diaz.
HT
reckingball
February 29th, 2012
2:26 pm
He will have a lot more success this year.
DetroitBraves
February 29th, 2012
2:28 pm
Just to be clear, the sabermetrics crowd has never given up on Jason Heyward. He posted a 2.2 WAR (damning statistics be damned) even in his supposed bad year last year and posted a .375 on-base percentage in September when the rest of the team forgot where first base was. I’ll keep believeing 2012 is a comeback year until it’s not.
Ted M
February 29th, 2012
2:28 pm
“Unfortunately I got hurt and I can’t control that,” he added moments later.
Actually he CAN control that…stop sliding head first. Especially in meaningless situations.
tmc
February 29th, 2012
2:34 pm
This goes for EVERY baseball player (including J. Heyward):
Spring training means NOTHING.
Pre-spring training means less than that.
show me in regular season play before i believe anything.
Shaun
February 29th, 2012
2:59 pm
Yes, “that anonymous subculture that exists behind wacky screen names and disseminates wonderful new damning statistics that were invented, like, seven minutes earlier” are among those who realize that Heyward has a very slim chance of becoming anything like the next Jeff Francoeur.
Also, that “subculture” are the ones who realized Francoeur should have been, at best, a part-time player at some point in the 2006 season and, at worst, should have been in the minors or sold high to some other franchise who didn’t realize Frenchy didn’t have the skills to play everyday in the majors (i.e., against right-handed pitching).
DetroitBraves
February 29th, 2012
3:01 pm
Heyward’s BABIP was only .260 last year, but around .330 the year before. It’s also true he hit too many ground balls last year. Whether that was injury, or mechanics, or injury due to mechanics or just plain chance – I have no idea. That’s what coaches are for I guess. But the data is the data. The good news is that while .330 may be a bit high, .260 is way too low and even with no change the Braves and Heyward should expect some bounce-back simply from regression.
Should also mention, that while the BABIP concept was formally introduced by Voros McCraken back in 1999, I have to admit that new sabermetrics can appear to be introduced frequently. I can see where this may be disconcerting. However, while we should maintain some healthy skepticism at the same time new ways of looking at the game shouldn’t be summarily dismissed.
Larry
February 29th, 2012
3:03 pm
Correction, Jeff. Jayson, nor his parents are grandparents, ever lived in Africa. He’s no more “African-American” than you or I so please stop being politically correct.
Like you and I, Jayson is an American.
Hillbilly D
February 29th, 2012
3:06 pm
Baseball is a game that rewards patience. The guy may turn out to be great or he may turn out to be a bust. He’s 22 years old, so it’s early to be putting him in either camp. My guess is that he’ll grow into a solid, above-average, though not spectacular player. Let’s wait and see.
Hillbilly D
February 29th, 2012
3:08 pm
Spring training means NOTHING.
I agree when you’re talking about established, veteran players. When it’s a guy fighting for a job, it can matter a great deal.
Dirty Dawg
February 29th, 2012
3:09 pm
Enter your comments here
DetroitBraves
February 29th, 2012
3:09 pm
Spring training can also matter a great deal when you’re talking about seeing if a previously injured player has recovered.
Kirk
February 29th, 2012
3:09 pm
@ tmc Are you serious? People and teams get ready in spring training. The rest of the year follows what does or doesn’t happen in spring training.
Big Crimson 75
February 29th, 2012
3:13 pm
Jay Hey is not a finished product…
Based on last year — I Hope not!
Shaun
February 29th, 2012
3:16 pm
Kudos to Jeff Schultz for writing this. Heyward got a bad rap last season from the media, fans, etc.
No one denied that he had a bad year. Many in the media and the fan base focused their attention on Heyward when other players who were at typical peak ages were having seasons just as bad or worse.
Many in the media and the fan base viewed it as Heyward being more talented than those other players, so he deserved the bulk of the attention and criticism. However, Heyward was 6-8 years away from what is typical peak age for a baseball player while these other guys were at what should have been their peaks and Heyward outperformed those other players.
The performances of Prado, McLouth earlier and Bourn later were more disappointing than that of a 21-year-old holding his own in the majors on a contending team, with a lot of hype surrounding him and injury problems.
Now, I’m not saying the media and fans would have been justified holding the same views about those others as Heyward, and that they should have expressed similar views about those other players just to even things out. Prado had injury issues of his own and never got going.
I’m saying let’s be realistic in our evaluation of Heyward. He had a season in which he was a league-average hitter, which is not good for a corner-outfielder, and he was solid defensively. Not what we Braves fans would have hoped for but nothing to be extremely alarmed about just yet, considering the injury problems, the hype carried over from 2010 and the fact that he was still 21 facing major league pitching.
DetroitBraves
February 29th, 2012
3:23 pm
@Shaun, I agree. Didn’t like the opening paragraph much because it was obviously another dig at the saber crowd even after saying yesterday he was going to let it go (is Schultz morphing into Murray Chass?). But all in all, good article. One that needed to be written. Agree whole-heartedly with the sentiment.
Shaun
February 29th, 2012
3:23 pm
We tend to overlook the role of bad luck in the Braves failure to make the playoffs rather easily in 2011. What if Prado doesn’t get hurt, what if Heyward doesn’t get hurt, what if Jurrjens and Hanson don’t get hurt, what if Dan Uggla is consistently good for the entire season?
I think we tend to overlook all the flukey and random things, and we want to look for someone to blame. I seriously doubt that any Braves players didn’t try reasonably hard to make themselves the best possible players in 2011. But sometimes flukey things happen and a team doesn’t play up to their talent level for a variety of reasons that no one can really control, and that team doesn’t win as a result.
blazerdawg
February 29th, 2012
3:33 pm
Thanks JS, did not really need the reminder.
tulsabravo
February 29th, 2012
3:37 pm
Hey Schultz, Do your homework! I think it’s fairly obvious what Heyward did last year to bring all his troubles upon himself…. He appeared in an ESPN Sportscenter commercial. Enough said.
George Stein
February 29th, 2012
3:39 pm
I won’t argue the first paragraph of this column except to say that I hope Heyward bounces back and many of the seven minute old metrics indicate he will.
itpdude
February 29th, 2012
3:49 pm
I agree with everything you wrote except for “African-American.” “African-American” denotes geography, not race.
George Stein
February 29th, 2012
3:52 pm
One problem, Shaun, is that the Braves moved Prado to LF, which diminishes his value. He was a 4 win player in 2010, but even if he repeated his 2010 offensive performance, he’d probably have only been a 3 win player last year. If he had played 2B last year and had his 2011 performance, he’s probably have been about a 3 win player, too.
PMC
February 29th, 2012
3:55 pm
We do this because we can’t go out there and do anything about it.
That, and because every couple of years the Braves are auditioning a new hot young outfielder and putting all the pressure on them to contribute in the lineup.
Francouer is a fantastic fielder, not good at the plate. We don’t really know what we have with Heyward yet, but the TEAM is already marketing him like a star why? Because the BRAVES ORGANIZATION has not spent enough money effort, or draft picks building quality outfield talent.
Sure, we have tons of pitching. What the crap was Nate McClouth? Jordan Schafer? I don’t even remember who was in left field when Francouer was here, some 2 million dollar journeyman I think.
We have one of if not the worst hittingt outfields in the league year in and year out. That’s not Jason Heywards fault, he’s only 22 and they have thrown him into it.
It’s the organizations fault for never bringing in the right talent.
WE HOPE Bourn is awesome, but we can’t expect it.
PMC
February 29th, 2012
3:57 pm
You can’t go year in and year out with hopes and dreams in the order just expecting things to happen.
The Braves don’t value the outfield, they’ve proven that.
Shaun
February 29th, 2012
4:01 pm
Yep, George. It was because of those 7-minute-old metrics that that anonymous subculture realized Francouer was Francoeur before everyone else realized it.
As far as the comparison to Clemente, I think Heyward is more like a Tim Salmon. He probably won’t hit for as much power but he may be a better all-around hitter, as far as hitting for average and getting on base and still having plus power. Also, he’s clearly more athletic than Salmon so he’ll be a better defender and better baserunner, barring some sort of major leg injury.
There is no perfect comp but I’d say Salmon with a little less power but more talent in almost all other aspects of the game.
PMC
February 29th, 2012
4:03 pm
The problem may well be that because we are so star starved in this city we expect “the next big thing” with every good player that comes along.
Maybe Heyward isn’t Barry Bonds. Happens every year with CFB recruiting here too.
Marco Polo
February 29th, 2012
4:05 pm
Just relax Jason. Study the pitchers and watch film. Don’t try to kill the ball. Just make contact.
George Stein
February 29th, 2012
4:06 pm
I expect Heyward to have a higher ceiling than Salmon because he can field his position exceptionally well. Salmon only had four years of 4+ fWAR, though I’d take the OBP in a nanosecond.
Devil's Advocate
February 29th, 2012
4:17 pm
LOL, stop sliding head first? Really? So if he jams his knee sliding feet first will your next piece of advice be to not slide at all?
Shaun
February 29th, 2012
4:26 pm
Oh, yeah. I think Heyward definitely has more upside because I think he has more hitting upside and he’s fairly close to Salmon in terms of power upside, plus Heyward is clearly better defensively and has more speed and baserunning ability. Salmon is a crude comparison, but the closest one I could find over the last 50 years.
PMC, Francoeur is not a fantastic fielder. He’s okay and he has a good arm. He’s not a great fielder.
In a sense we know what the Braves have with Heyward. They are sort of marketing him as a star because he’s a well-known name and the odds of him becoming a complete bust, like a Francoeur or (worse yet) a Komminsk, are pretty slim.
I can’t argue with you on draft picks in the sense that the Braves just never went over slot in the draft. As far as targeting outfielders in the draft, the major league draft is not like other sports’ drafts. You take the best available player that fits your budget because those players are at least 3-5 years from the majors. You can’t really look that far ahead to what your major league team will need by then.
I agree with what seems to be your overall point, that the Braves have had outfield issues for a while. I think the biggest mistake since 1991 was the David Justice trade. Justice didn’t seem to be valued appropriately. Aside from the Justice trade, I think a lot of that is just the luck of the draw: there wasn’t that available trade or that free agent that was worth their while in the outfield. Sheffield was about the only exception I can think of.
TexBravosFan
February 29th, 2012
4:29 pm
Everyone needs to calm down on Heyward. 22 years old. His skills didn’t just vanish, he had a bad year and was hurt. He just needs to develop and adjustment, no different than any other young stud player.
While I agree the Braves have had a poor outfield for a long time, it is hard to say they arne’t investing now–with Bourn in center, and Heyward RF, that is a solid outfield. The weak link is LF – Prado. He loses all his value in the outfield. Great as a 2b, not as an LF.
PMC
February 29th, 2012
4:42 pm
good points Shaun.
"Chef" Tim Dix
February 29th, 2012
4:53 pm
Sabermetrics is much like texting to me, in that I do neither.
You don’t homer in your debut as J-Hey did without the goods but swinging harder is not an adjustment. Also, Spartacus gave up the head first slide and dive early in his career and the kid needs to as well.
In regards to the saber guys there are many variables that, I guess could have a number attached to such as did my buddy the bartender gas so and so’s drinks last night. That’s the stuff I want to know…
cowdogit
February 29th, 2012
5:00 pm
Looks to me like the pitching staff has broken down before the season has even started. Leo Mazzone’s record speaks loud and clear with no division titles since he left.
GT Alum
February 29th, 2012
5:14 pm
Schultz, nice job of acting like the kind of arrogant jerk you claim “stat geeks” of being. If you paid attention, you’d notice the folks who are more into stats are usually the ones trying to shoot down the Heyward is a flop, Chipper should’ve retired 5 years ago claims that “fans” make based on their observations without any other support.
And if we are a bit dimissive sometimes, it’s because we get tired of trying to have intelligent discussions with people whose only basis for their argument is that’s my opinion.
tmc
February 29th, 2012
5:38 pm
Kirk- yup.
everything you hear about “how good Heyward looks…” or this spring is different… or whatever about how any player is going to do this year…
Is a complete waste of time.
I’ve seen players hit .600 in spring and absolutely suck once the season starts and vice-versa. IT MEANS NOTHING.
if you want to say it means something for a player making a team…. okay, whatever. But as to how it’s going to translate to the regular season? NO WAY.
A Father
February 29th, 2012
5:42 pm
Great athlete, Braves rushed him to majors, not one to accept coaching, will never hit a left handed pitcher.
Trade him first chance
bulldogbubba
February 29th, 2012
5:55 pm
Nice article Jeff. Hopefully he will come out of camp strong and we won’t have to debate whether Constanza or someone else should play.
abby normal
February 29th, 2012
5:56 pm
OK, so he’s not a finished product, but how long does it take to grasp the concept of hitting the ball up the middle? If he cannot do that left handers will wear him out again this year.
ohhhhYEAH
February 29th, 2012
6:17 pm
PMC
“Francoeur is a fantastic fielder, not good at the plate.”
Francoeurs career numbers in seven major league saesons: .270/.313/.433, 214 2B, 121 HR, 552RBI. The only thing NOT good is his K/BB ratio. And don’t throw any of that sabermetric crap at me, these numbers alone suggest he does just fine at the plate every year, minus the year he hit .239, but still managed to put up decent production with 71 RBI and 70 runs scored.
ohhhhYEAH
February 29th, 2012
6:19 pm
@ Shaun, you forgot to mention that JD Drew, the one year we had him, was also very good for Atlanta, even though we did give up Carpenter
cmc
February 29th, 2012
6:19 pm
Give the kid some slack…nice article Jeff and right on and maybe a fresh voice in Walker and Fletcher will help……hes got the talent to be a super star and I hope he’s wearing that “A” on his jersey for many years to come…we just got to be patient…J-Hey was not only player who struggled last year – the entire freaking braves lineup struggled hitting including the 60 million dollar man…r..
ohhhhYEAH
February 29th, 2012
6:21 pm
cmc
The “60 million dollar man” carried the entire team for about a month and a half. NO ONE was producing when he went on his tear. And it’s funny that the ones crying out for patience are the same ones booing him when he swings and misses at yet another slider buried in on his hands
George Stein
February 29th, 2012
6:25 pm
We gave up Wainwright, ohhhhYEAH, but your point remains the same.
ohhhhYEAH
February 29th, 2012
6:27 pm
Thats what I meant…….HAHA
George Stein
February 29th, 2012
6:27 pm
Also, I know we didn’t trade or sign him as a free agent, but there was that Andruw Jones guy who was nothing short of great in CF for a decade.
ohhhhYEAH
February 29th, 2012
6:28 pm
Enter your comments herei knew it was one of the two, i was just too lazy to look it up so i guessed!
George Stein
February 29th, 2012
6:28 pm
It sure would be nice to have Wainwright now, though. Sheesh. Drew was good for us that year, but Wainwright is terrific.
George Stein
February 29th, 2012
6:29 pm
Eh, not a big deal, man.
"Chef" Tim Dix
February 29th, 2012
6:40 pm
George Stein
What does SM say about A Jones numbers as an argument for the HOF?
I say his numbers say “in”.
LakeDawg
February 29th, 2012
6:40 pm
Very well said, Schultz.
George Stein
February 29th, 2012
6:54 pm
That’s a good question, Chef. I want to say yes because he played a premium position at a remarkable level. His peak, from 1997 to 2006, was a run of sustained excellence in CF.
Not sure how into sabermetrics you are, but there is a metric they developed called WAR (wins above replacement). Generally 3 WAR per year is average, 5 WAR per year is All Star, and anything more is superstar. From 1998 to 2006, he was higher than 5, with five of those year more than 7. Plus, he did it in the steroid era, and I think we can all agree that his body type wasn’t really one that looked very juiced (unless the juice was cupcakes!). Plus, over the last 20 years, he is 13th in WAR. As a point comparison, Chipper is third, behind two known juicers, ARod and Bonds (which just shows how great he is).
I guess that’s a roundabout way of saying “yes.” But because of his precipitous decline, his greatness may be a little forgotten.
Stinger2
February 29th, 2012
7:17 pm
George: Would you please tell us the measure value of WAR`s
Thanks
George Stein
February 29th, 2012
7:23 pm
Not sure I understand your question, Stinger?
Four ply swat
February 29th, 2012
7:35 pm
let the kid play and develop. everyone wants instant great players. all of the greats ones took a minute to get adjusted the show. no injuries will equal nice numbers from Heyward.
JSS
February 29th, 2012
8:23 pm
It (Sabermatic overload victims), they are like sitting in on one of those war college classes where the bureaucrat to be officer fail to see big picture warfare dynamics regarding battlefield strategy… They are always overwhelmed looking for matrix dynamics… Sad!
Jack in Macon
February 29th, 2012
8:55 pm
Jason. Stop the head first slide!!!
Sonny Clusters
February 29th, 2012
8:58 pm
It was painful watching Heyward last season and it was brutal that he was placed back in the lineup and the team tanked. We are pulling for him to get straightened out and play some decent right field because the Braves outfield was one of the worst in baseball last year and Bourn helped it but we have to remember Bourn was out there in September and didn’t make much difference. Having McLouth and Jordan Schafer out there could have ruined center field for anybody but Bourn will rebound and give the Braves a good season in 2012. There are holes in this team and there will continue to be holes unless everybody takes it up a notch or more from what they did last year. Being such a championship team though for so many years should get them through. Hahaha! We was kidding about that just like Schuerholz has been kidding us for so long. He’s pretty slick but this Clusters is on to him.
DetroitBraves
February 29th, 2012
9:55 pm
This is a little bit dated but as of 2010 Andruw Jones would have been below the average Hall of Fame centerfielder according to Jay Jaffe’s Jaws system for evaluating Hall of Fame candidates. There were 3 players behind him in the Hall and 2 ahead of him not – though one is Junior Griffey, who will be, and the other is Jim Edmonds. Recently, there has been a refinement to the system that has cost a lot of players a bit on the defensive side. I don’t know specifically how Jones is seen now through the system but my intuition tells me that Jones a) won’t get in, b) is, however, worth the discussion, c) may not get the discussion, at least for a while, due to a potentially crowded ballot and his precipitous decline, and d) in the end keeping him out may not be the wrong decision.
Larry30
February 29th, 2012
9:57 pm
If only he had the production of Francouer this article wouldn’t have been written. For that matter how many braves exceeded Francouer’s numbers last year? And I don’t care that he played for the royals. It is a MLB team.
DetroitBraves
February 29th, 2012
10:02 pm
One more note on Andruw, his peak was above the average Hall of Famer – validating George Stein’s assessment. But his greatest stat is, not surprisingly, runs saved. According to the metric, he is the second greatest defensive centerfielder ever, trailing only Willie Mays. A lot of people think Willie Mays was pretty good.
DetroitBraves
February 29th, 2012
10:07 pm
We’ll see on Francouer, Larry30. His walk rate was about the same as ever, and his K rate was maybe even a tick up. He swung at pitches outside the zone at least as much as he ever has. Sounds like the same undisciplined Francouer to me. I may end up being wrong but I would rather Kansas City take that bet than Atlanta.
DetroitBraves
February 29th, 2012
10:16 pm
@George Stein, fWAR is the Fangraphs version, right? Isn’t it true that totalzone ratings are less kind to defense than UZR? If you believe, as Fangraphs does, that UZR is superior then Andruw’s fWAR prior to 2002 may be understated. Obviously, much of his value came from his defense.
George Stein
February 29th, 2012
10:29 pm
Yep, I used fWAR. You make a good point about the pre-2002 defensive metrics.
As a point of comparison, Derek Jeter – who is viewed a no doubt first ballot HoF – has been worth only two more fWAR and he played the entire 1996 season, which Andruw didn’t. I am not sure I disagree about your assessment of his likelihood of admission, but I believe he merits strong consideration and, ultimately, admission.
George Stein
February 29th, 2012
10:33 pm
I was happy to see Frenchy have a nice season last year. At least he merited inclusion on a big league roster. And he absolutely mashed against lefties. He would be a solid addition to a team that could platoon him if they could accept the contract.
DetroitBraves
February 29th, 2012
10:53 pm
You know, Francouer has always been playable against left-handed starters. That’s a really good point. My assessment of him was as an everyday player, which he was last year and will likely be again this year. As an everyday player I believe he will disappoint.
phil
February 29th, 2012
11:20 pm
Wayward is a bust.
This year will erase the doubt and end all this idle chatter about an improved swing.
If he hits even.250, it will be on par with the 1980 miracle on ice.
Larry30
February 29th, 2012
11:22 pm
Everybody has been putting Francouer down as an everyday player for years. All he does is drive in runs wherever he goes and plays a great right field. I guess if his name was Uggla it would be ok if he batted .230.
Loyal Fan
February 29th, 2012
11:38 pm
And you wonder why they say Atlanta has the worst fans. Give it time, and stop trying to give your dumb opinions out. Hershel Talker, no one wants to hear your debbie downer comments.
Loyal Fan
February 29th, 2012
11:40 pm
We should freeze frame this message board, and skip to 3 months into the season, when Heyward is playing like he did his rookie year. We will have the same naysayers being complete hypocrites as of today’s board.
SilentCC
March 1st, 2012
12:25 am
Mr. Schultz — (just to change the subject a bit, but still somewhat related) Sometime, you might think about doing a study and column series on baseball injuries. Seems to me that there is a problem with the game of baseball itself in that it’s requirements of motion and the relatively little time in executing those motions on the field contribute GREATLY to baseball related injuries. Almost all other sports’ motion requirements help keep the player in shape because the motions are repeated on a regular basis throughout the game or activity.
Tennis players are always running and swinging, therefore the sport itself keeps them in shape. Football players are using their entire bodies on most every play, therefore they are keeping in shape just by playing. Basketball requires constant running and direction changes plus jumping. Swimming and skiing require a constant use of the arms and legs.
BUT — Baseball. There is nothing in the game of baseball itself that encourages, or contributes to, reinforcing conditioning. Batters swing the bat only every third inning or so. A ball hit to the playing field only involves two, maybe three players, and that for only a few brief seconds. Guys who reach base are standing around for minutes before anything might happen.
The only baseball players that do anything repetitively and for a length of time are pitchers.
So, the apparent softness and vulnerability of baseball players just might be countered by better and more intense and consistent weight and motion training. It’s for sure they’re not going to get it from being on the field.
And of course — I can be totally shot out of the water if in fact training for baseball players is already intense and adequate and they are doing all right things, and I just don’t know it.
But I WOULD like to see a writer ask the questions, and do an in-depth exploration of baseball injuries and their occurrences and prevention.
tim scott
March 1st, 2012
6:44 am
Janis Heyward will fold like a cheap tent at the first sign of a boo boo
Trojan
March 1st, 2012
7:58 am
He was rushed. Great thoughts Jeff. Go Heyward. If Heyward plays good the Braves will be great.
Shug
March 1st, 2012
8:01 am
Wouldn’t it be simpler to just bring Frenchy back? That guy is marketable, his not being an “African American” notwithstanding.
DePort
March 1st, 2012
8:23 am
Too many people think their opinion is fact these days … Why cant we go back to just enjoying the game of baseball… Stop picking out every flaw of every player and lets just enjoy the game… Every day I read these negative posts written by all you baseball professionals and it just makes me sick to think how negative everyone has gotten… I just wanna go back to being a kid and loving the game for what it is suppose to be… FUN!
Tell It Like It Is
March 1st, 2012
8:58 am
I like Jason but I believe that he would be better served in a market that is not his home. Francouer comes to mind. He never recovered from the decline in his sophomore season. Local fans and the press are a terrible influence when your mom and dad are around to hear the crap from yahoos who could not make the little league team. There is more involved than just learning how to hit left handers up the middle.
A Father
March 1st, 2012
9:01 am
Francouer is a huge liability in right field, he is very slow getting to fly balls. In the first games of his last time in Atlanta, the first week 5 balls were not caught that have to be at the professional level.
Francouer is now in the American League where he belongs with small right field pards to play in, arm strength is very good but to many balls drop in.
I wish Francouer good luck, but since MLB stopped the ability to take illegal performance enhancing drugs, he abilities continue to tank.
Francouer should have move to the position of a pitcher, I really think that he would have been tremendous MLB player if he had done so.
Brian Friel
March 1st, 2012
9:02 am
Jason Heyward suffered from the sophmore jinks. He’s way to talented, and too smart a ball player and competitor, not to meet his seasonal goals. Injuries play a huge roll in the long baseball season, and if the Braves can stay healthy they will challenge for the divisional crown, or at least the wildcard spot.
Brian Friel
March 1st, 2012
9:03 am
A Father, you are totally right. Fracouer has a really strong arm.
Snake Doc
March 1st, 2012
9:04 am
Wait a minute… Everyone from GM to Manager to the Towel Washer including everyone at Al Jazeera Constipation told us all that this guy was the next Hank Aaron, Willie Mays, Joe DiMaggio and Babe Ruth all rolled into one. Now he needs work, he’s an unfinished product?
Here’s an idea, before you self proclaimed all knowing, all seeing, savants pronounce anyone the next anything let their careers play out. Than determine what their place in history will be!
You idiots are not king makers, you are not all knowing you are not all seeing you are all just Baghdad Bob’s wannabes pretending to be the voice of all great knowledge that has anything to do with sports trying to dupe an unknowing public into thinking you are smarter than the average Joe.
Snake Doc
March 1st, 2012
9:08 am
@SilentCC – Remember what John Kruk said about being an athlete. “I’m not an athlete I’m a ballplayer!”
bvilebaron
March 1st, 2012
9:19 am
If you want proof that the Braves have some of the worst fans I offer Phil and Tim Scott. That’s right guys, Heyward is “washed up” at an age when most players haven’t even had a sniff of the bigs. Get real.
Don
March 1st, 2012
9:21 am
Truth is, major league pitching adjusted to Heyward; and thus far, he has not shown the ability (or perhaps the necessary understanding) to adjust back. The first and most important essential is for him to concentrate on making solid contact and make this his only priority – forgetting about the long ball and letting it take care of itself. Will he do so and make the necessary adjustments to be productive against major league pitching????? Who knows. But unless he does, he will not hit well enough to be a corner major leage outfielder – or even well enough to really be a fourth or fifth outfielder. And he may not be motivated to do this if the Braves continue the Bobby Cox policy of continuing to play a player whether of not he is making necessary adjustments.
Snake Doc
March 1st, 2012
9:45 am
@Don – You hit the nail on the head!
Joey
March 1st, 2012
9:50 am
And when Fred started his career, there were no sports blogs . . .
DetroitBraves
March 1st, 2012
10:31 am
The comment about Francouer transitioning to pitching made me think of an interview I heard with Schurholtz several years ago. The interviewer was talking about pitchers and he basically said something along the lines of (paraphrasing) “you can find a truck driver that can throw 96 mph but that doesn’t mean he will be a good pitcher” to which John Schurholtz replied ‘if you can find me a truck driver that throws 96 mph I’ll sign him”.
A long those lines, anybody remember Tony Pena Jr. who played a little for the Braves a few years back? Strong arm at short. Apparently he came into a game for KC a few years ago in one of those position players mops up a blow out roles and flashed a high 90s fastball with a slider. He never could hit so KC sent him back down after seeing that to see if he could be a real pitcher. Anybody know how that’s working out? I guess I could google it.
Biff Pocoroba Fan Club
March 1st, 2012
11:33 am
The next Francouer wouldn’t be such a bad thing. He has turned into a good everyday outfielder. Last season French batted .285 with 20 HR and 87 RBI. I am sure anyone would take a season like that from Heyward in a second.
Sonny Clusters
March 1st, 2012
11:37 am
We see where Celine Dion has gone on the disabled list over in the American League. We was also reading about a UGA coed putting hash browns in her pants. With all this going on it is no wonder Jason Heyward “isn’t a finished product.” We remember when he was crushing balls into the parking lot during spring training and everybody said not to park your car out by the wall. Some major league scout said, why don’t we throw him some pitches he can’t handle standing off the plate like that? And, lo and behold, last season Jason couldn’t hit the ball out of the park anymore. He did cut down on the gopher population at second base, though.
Brave Hokie
March 1st, 2012
12:39 pm
JH is the next Jermaine Dye ~ under-achieve w/that scarlet B-R-A-V-E-S on his chest, and will be borderline HOF’er once we give up and trade him.
“Crule fate ~ why do you mock me?”
Shaun
March 1st, 2012
1:26 pm
Francoeur’s problem wasn’t that the pitchers adjusted to him. Francoeur’s problem was that he actually never had the skills to play everyday in the majors but the Braves apparently didn’t recognize it or they couldn’t find anyone any better. In Francoeur’s best season, he was a league average hitter. In his other full seasons with the Braves he wasn’t close to league average and he displayed no skills that indicated he would ever be much more than a decent platoon option. Yet, because he racked up RBI (mostly because of the strength of the rest of the Braves’ lineup) some thought he was more productive than he actually was. People confuse RBI with production. But RBI, even RBI on an individual level, is a team stat. If a mediocre or poor player is in the right situation, he’ll rack up RBI anyway.
This is what bothers me about the anti-sabermetric crowd. (And I’m not an ardent saberist. I just want a better understanding of the game and don’t think things should be labeled. Sabermetrics has made most of us smarter, or should have. And that’s all I care about.) The anti-sabermetric crowd will criticize the 7-minute old stat, yet they’ll use RBI to judge a hitter’s production. If the old stat can be very misleading, perhaps there is a need for a new stat or at least more weight given to a better old stat.
Francoeur is not close to Heyward in skills. And, Don, we don’t know whether Heyward refused to make adjustments or whether he was worried about the long ball. It’s quite possible, I would argue likely, that Heyward’s 2011 season was a result of injury and the fact that he’s about 5-6 years from what is typical peak age for baseball players, and had little or nothing to do with some sort of unwillingness to adjust or a poor approach. I’ll let others make those assumptions and I’ll still to what was likely the case with Heyward.
Shaun
March 1st, 2012
1:43 pm
Biff Pocoroba Fan Club, .285 with 20 HR and 87 RBI doesn’t tell the full story.
.285/.329/.476 tells us more of a full story of Jeff Francoeur’s 2011 season. That is merely okay offense from a corner-outfielder. Sure, it’s better than Heyward’s 2011 season but a) Heyward has displayed better tools and skills and b) Francoeur was 27 and Heyward was 21.
We’re seeing Francouer’s peak, and it’s not all that good if your likely peak is somewhere around .285/.329/.476 and you’re a corner-outfielder. But Heyward putting up an all-star type season at age 20 and a league average season at age 21, while playing in the majors, is a good sign for the future. Sure, his 2011 didn’t help the Braves in 2011. But that performance at that age, along with his major league performance in 2010, along with the tools and skills he’s displayed throughout his pro career is a great sign going forward and is a sign that he’s no Francoeur.
Shaun
March 1st, 2012
1:46 pm
It’s easy to write about Heyward because, for a variety of reason, I think he is the most incorrectly evaluated (by most fans) players the Braves have had in recent memory.
I think a big reason for this is because Jeff Francoeur was incorrectly evaluated and Heyward plays the same position and is also a local product.
Mark's for the Braves
March 1st, 2012
1:51 pm
I think Heyward is the key to our season. He must produce as he did as a rookie for us to have a good shot at the NL East or the wild card.
Stinger2
March 1st, 2012
1:57 pm
Clusters: Do you think Schuerholtz cares if you are “on him”? Did you forget to say something negative about Chipper and Freddi this time? Come up with something new and constructive if you can.
Also, this is the second time you have mentioned the UGA
soccer player who made a mistake that has taken a toll on her and her family`s life. Why not offer a prayer instead of a wise comment?
Sonny Clusters
March 1st, 2012
2:02 pm
Stinger2 you need to find a hobby that doesn’t include us. If you want to match wits you should know you are overmatched from the start. You post your drivel and leave us alone to post as we see fit. As far as we’re concerned, we will ignore you from here on out.
p.s. the manager’s name is spelled F-r-e-d-i . A big fan like you should know that.
DetroitBraves
March 1st, 2012
2:21 pm
@Shaun, to back up your point the average line for a right-fielder with at least 450 PAs last year was .273/.352/.463. Given how important that middle number is it is fairly safe to say Francouer was no better than average, if that.
Shaun
March 1st, 2012
2:23 pm
Yep, DetroitBraves. And OBP and SLG aren’t exactly 7-minute old statistics. They are just more telling than other old statistics, like RBI.
Stinger2
March 1st, 2012
2:28 pm
Clusters: I would also ignore you if you would stop your never ending and uncalled for bashing of the Braves. However, as a true fan, I feel its important that other Braves fans know you for what you are…that is someone who craves attention. You do get it by incorporating your patented wit with your same old negative repeats of how bad Fredi, Chipper and the Braves organization is.
George Stein
March 1st, 2012
3:07 pm
One way to think about Heyward in a more proper context is to consider that he’s only eight months older than our first round pick last year, Sean Gilmartin. Anyone expecting him to dominate the big leagues this year?
Another? Anthony Rendon, who went sixth overall to the Nats last year in one of the most loaded drafts in history, is ten months younger than Heyward. He’s probably going to be in the minors for two full seasons, barring a September call-up … in 2013.
Barring injuries, Heyward will be fine.
Mark. (another one)
March 1st, 2012
8:31 pm
I’m looking forward to Heyward and Freemen becoming the core of the Braves offense. These guys have hit, hit with power and played exceptional defense at each level and both were ROY runner ups. With some strong OBP hitters in front of them, they will plate a lot of runs.
Both of these guys have been consistently playing against older, more mature players. I expect more progress as they mature, unlike say Costanza who’s 28.
Gary Kaplan
March 6th, 2012
8:42 am
Its not all Jason’s fault, the kid was built up by the media to be a superstar. The media cant wait for athletes to develop into superstars they want to create these larger than life stories and make comparisons of kids like Heyward to the likes of true hall of famers. My complaint is more with the media than Heyward, yep he still has to go out there and hit catch and run and he has the potential to be a hall of famer some day but lets let him do it his way and let the media just call the the game dont create hype!