Braves convinced everything can’t go wrong again
Fredi Gonzalez address team before Braves' first full-squad workout of spring. (Jason Getz/AJC)
LAKE BUENA VISTA, Fla. – They’re all here, a rare thing in these panic-and-detonate times in pro sports. Late-season collapses generally are followed by somebody in the front office looping wire around several big toes, running it to a wooden box that reads, “Acme TNT,” and pushing down on the plunger.
Not with the Braves. There was no kaboom in the winter.
On the first day of full-squad workouts in spring training Saturday, almost every player from a year ago, save the anchor, Derek Lowe, was there: Dan Uggla, who was hitting .173 on July 4; Jason Heyward, who messed up his shoulder and then everything inside his head; Martin Prado, who struggled and added staph infection to his list of career ailments; Brian McCann, who went into a slump and, for the first time in his life, couldn’t locate a solution; Jair Jurrjens, who followed a 12-3 first half with a 1-3 second half and a season-ending knee injury.
The Braves took the rare soul-cleansing approach to failure: They stepped back, took a breath, lit some candles, opened the chakras, serentized and moved on.
I know. It doesn’t play well on blogs, fan message boards and sports talk radio. So does that make it wrong?
Funny. Through all of those improbable, dramatic, oh-my-God-I-can’t-believe-that-just-happened finishes in the 1990s, nobody ever proclaimed, “Ah, phooey. The Braves got lucky. They need big changes.”
Some perspective from Chipper Jones: “Should the Cardinals have even been in the playoffs? No. Should we have been in the playoffs? Yeah. Should the Rangers have won the World Series. Yeah. But none of that happened. I think if you look back over the last 20 years, we had our share of games where we snatched victory from the jaws of defeat — back in the heyday. Maybe it’s somebody’s way of getting us back.”
Pause.
“Did anybody say Francisco Cabrera?”
Jones smiled, recalling an exchange he had with Texas’s Michael Young last October.
“I talked to him via text before the World Series, and I said, ‘Y’all are going to kill these guys,’” he said, referring to St. Louis.
Oops.
Official closure to the 10-20, catastrophic end of last season came Saturday with the team’s first full-squad workout. Manager Fredi Gonzalez was surprisingly secretive about his pre-practice talk. But the elements weren’t expected to include great revelations. The focus is not on the final 30 games of 2011, but the 162 in 2012. The expectation is that the Braves will pay closer to attention to offensive fundamentals: bunting, hitting behind runners, making the most of situational at-bats like what to do when there’s a runner in scoring position with less than two outs (the plan: don’t hit a pop-up).
“I think he [Gonzalez] will pay a little more attention to detail of what guys are doing fundamentally,” Jones said before Gonzalez’s speech.
The Braves had so much go wrong at various points last season. Yet, they missed the playoffs by only one game. If Uggla starts better, McCann finishes better, Heyward or Prado have even average seasons, Jurrjens or Tommy Hanson stay healthy — do they not win at least one more game?
Yes, it’s a game of ifs. The emotional side of you screams: “The Braves blew it. Somebody needs to pay. Somebody other than just hitting coach Larry Parrish.”
The Boston Red Sox had a collapse that paralleled the Braves’. Seven minutes after the season, it looked like a hurricane blew through the front office. But do we know that Boston is now back on the rails?
“One year [earlier], we won the wild card by one game,” Prado said. “We clinched on the last day, but people don’t remember that. It’s easier to remember the bad things.”
There are obvious questions. Can Heyward, with weight loss, a new swing and a new coach, return to the form of his rookie season? Can Jurrjens, Hanson and Tim Hudson stay healthy? What will Gonzalez do this time if the team begins to circle the drain?
Gonzalez said he has felt “a good vibe” since camp opened. Pitchers and catchers reported, but most of the players on the roster walked in with them.
“That gives you a good feeling,” he said. “The way we finished last year, they were itching to get going. Stop looking in the rearview mirror. It’s time to look forward.”
Their expectation is that the odds are in their favor, and a few more things go right.
By Jeff Schultz
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121 comments Add your comment
alphonzo
February 25th, 2012
6:33 pm
i m MO reddy 4 da braves 2 whoop da ass this year. not da payroll of da othateams BUT MUCH betta team if dey all clickin. les see da big man n right play like da star he really is hele ya
Denver Brave
February 25th, 2012
6:41 pm
??? yeah! me, too!
Dawgdad (The Original)
February 25th, 2012
6:45 pm
Every new day dawns with promise, so there is always Hope.
bulldogbubba
February 25th, 2012
6:47 pm
Just PLAYBALL!!!!!
Sonny Clusters
February 25th, 2012
7:03 pm
We was worried about you.
Sonny Clusters
February 25th, 2012
7:30 pm
If it’s behind them why does Fredi keep talking about it? We want him to know it is not behind us and we remember his part in it. Now, having said that we was wondering if Chipper is saying, “Uh, I think he will pay a little more attention to detail of what guys are doing fundamentally” if that means Chipper picked up on all the bad base running and inability to hit behind runners and missing the cutoff man? We was wondering if a little stretching would pay off before the games and if situational bunting will take place even when the situation is all wrong like it did last year? One good thing about the spring and that’s the birds singing and all the spitting and scratching and adjusting is just getting started. We hope that as spring training continues we’ll be reading some comments from somebody besides the Buck Commander. Sunscreen is for sissies and so is complaining about sunburn when you don’t use sunscreen.
Bill
February 25th, 2012
7:52 pm
Thanks Jeff for info..keep up the good job..I believe J-Hey will be ok with new coach, good attitude and no pain. I still worry about the other ifs. How about something on Freeman.
bulldogbubba
February 25th, 2012
7:53 pm
Clusters – Wouldn’t we be better off with Prado at 3rd and Constanza lying the outfield? He can definitly run faster than Chip. We need speed.
bulldogbubba
February 25th, 2012
7:55 pm
meant “playing”the outfield. “lying the outfield might be for Heyward.
Robert
February 25th, 2012
8:04 pm
“looping wire around several big toes, running it to a wooden box that reads, “Acme TNT,and pushing down on the plunger.”
For years I have struggled to find the perfect image that conveyed what Bobby Cox did to a team’s chances. Now I have it
Now that Cox is no longer managing the team, it is indeed possible that everything wont go wrong
"Chef" Tim Dix
February 25th, 2012
8:06 pm
Bill: Here’s something on Freeman: Of all that has been said about the collapse and the players to blame, there was one who did not falter, good ol’ double F.
Penciling him in for the next 20y or so.
"Chef" Tim Dix
February 25th, 2012
8:14 pm
KK cooked at my table the other night. He flipped me a shrimp and I drilled him with it in the throat. To his credit, he kept cooking.
P B Orr
February 25th, 2012
8:18 pm
Jeff, just outstanding writing.
Train Wreck Bystander
February 25th, 2012
8:45 pm
And if this bunch who “deserved another chance” fails to deliver this year, the bloodletting will more than make up for this past winter’s lack of managerial discontent.
No pressure.
Trapper John
February 25th, 2012
8:46 pm
Everything can go wrong again. His name is “Fruiti Gonzales”. In so far over his head, he couldn’t see the sun if standing on a solar flare. “You know….”
DetroitBraves
February 25th, 2012
8:52 pm
Of course the Braves had some bad luck last year and several things that went wrong may well not go wrong again. However, Chipper is a year older, several pitchers are still not necessarily enjoying great health and Fredi is still calling the shots. It is not a matter of luck that Fredi is still the manager. That’s design. Not a very intelligent design at that.
Felix
February 25th, 2012
8:57 pm
Beware of Murphy’s law Braves.
Greg
February 25th, 2012
9:02 pm
I don’t know about you guys, but I am pumped! And I think the Braves are, too. I just hope they settle down a bit before the season starts and don’t come out over-playing. I’m usually looking at what’s going to go bad/wrong, but this season, I’m thinking if only two out of the three of Heyward, Uggla, and Prado hit the way they should, we’re right there this year with the pitching we have. Right there.
Sonny Clusters
February 25th, 2012
9:04 pm
Yes, Constanza looks to be faster than Chipper but we would want to see them in an all-out race to first base in order to be sure. We don’t think we have seen Chipper run all-out to first base in so long that we may not remember whether he is as fast as Constanza, who always runs as hard as he can. Now, somebody’s going to say we’re being hard on the Beaver again – we mean the Chipper – and that we are mean and not a good fan but we know one thing and that is we just witnessed an EPIC Collapse and so far we’ve read about fishing and sunburn and tomorrow we’re probably going to read about the Daytona 500 and we was wondering if these Braves really do intend to act like nothing happened in September and not work like crazy to make sure it can never happen again? If we was Fredi we’d be looking over our shoulder even though he has pledged never to look back. We would also sleep with one eye open. It probably doesn’t matter which one.
Trapper John
February 25th, 2012
9:32 pm
Chipper is talking about the guys bamming two and three run homers again! I assume he counts himself as part of that equation. Player/Manager anyone?????
Furman Bitcher
February 25th, 2012
9:45 pm
Braves make playoffs or Freddi is going home to East Cobb
phil
February 25th, 2012
9:52 pm
Braves aren’t going anywhere but backwards…
Fire FG!!
Sonny Clusters
February 25th, 2012
10:13 pm
Chipper and LaRoche was out in the woods deer hunting and after a time they realized they were lost. It was getting dark and cold and they didn’t have their pajamas. Remembering that the Buck Commanders’ distress signal is to fire three times into the air Chipper decided that’s what he’d do. One, two, three shots. Nothing happened. He shot three more times. Still nothing happened. He was getting upset by now but still he shot three more times – and nothing happened. Chipper knew the next three shots would be critical because he only had three more arrows.
Tomahawk Choke
February 25th, 2012
10:19 pm
The problem is that two teams in your division, Miami and Washington, got better. They already gave the Braves fits and now will give them even more. I don’t see any more wins than last year. Unless, all goes right… “not all goes wrong” as you say. Braves are a real long shot.
DetroitBraves
February 25th, 2012
10:34 pm
You know, Tomahawk Choke that’s a good point. I don’t think Washington and Miami are going to pass the Braves in the standings necessarily but the division is so tough it’s going to be hard for the second place team to get the wild card. The second place team could even be the second best team in the league and it may not be good enough.
Jeff Schultz
February 25th, 2012
10:39 pm
Sonny — Worry? About me?
DetroitBraves
February 25th, 2012
10:39 pm
Part of what has to go right for the Braves is when Fredi employs strategies that have been shown over and over again to make scoring runs less likely that they end up scoring anyway. Of course, sometimes this will happen. But over 162 games it seems to me a poor way to conduct business. Kind of the baseball equivalent of hitting on 19.
Jeff Schultz
February 25th, 2012
10:39 pm
Thanks Bill
Jeff Schultz
February 25th, 2012
10:40 pm
“Chef” Tim — You’re correct on Freeman, and he’ll be even better this season.
DetroitBraves
February 25th, 2012
10:45 pm
Jeff, most projection systems have Freeman being very similar to last year. Much agreement between ZiPs, PECOTA, etc. This isn’t really bad news (and I happen to like Freeman just fine) because he had an unsustainable .339 BABIP last year, so ending up with similar numbers probably means real improvement. Which is to say you may be right, even though in the end it may not necessarily look like it.
ATLcracker
February 25th, 2012
11:07 pm
A lot of people I talk to are unhappy with the BABIP stat. Can anyone explain why home runs are excluded? Also shouldn’t there be some kind of correction factor for how hard the balls are hit? Line drive percentage maybe? Slugging percentage on balls put in play SPBAB.?
Caseyatthebat
February 25th, 2012
11:24 pm
Jeff, I enjoy your column a great deal and I thank you for your work. But sometimes I think that the Atlanta fraternity of sports writers is on the Brave payroll pronouncing what is becoming a tired litany of dribble. I’m a Brave fan and I don’t care about ONE game. They blew TWENTY! I’m a Brave fan and I don’t care that for four months they were one of the four best teams. In the end they ran out of the money. By the way, those four months were four of the most boring baseball I’ve seen. I’m a Brave fan and Red Sox rationalization means nothing to me. It’s interesting to me that no one mentions the fact that they remained about seven games behind the Phillies throughout. I remember when our stated goal at the beginning of a season was to win the World Series. Now we hope to get a playoff birth. 2010 was a Luke warm finish (even though the playoff birth) and 2011 was cold, cold, cold. Management is tiptoeing through 2012 hoping for lightning to strike until 2013 when they’ll have the money to finally acquire what they really need……..a big hitter. And Sonny Clusters, Chipper can be 60 and if he maintains the numbers he has he can play for me anytime. Check his numbers against all other third basemen. The only time Prado should be at third is when Chipper isn’t. His numbers aren’t the equal of Chipper’s. A number of baseball greats have played at 40.
DetroitBraves
February 25th, 2012
11:39 pm
@ATLcracker, quickly BABIP often excludes homers because they are hit out of the field of play – therefore the defense does not have an opportunity to turn them into outs. BABIP to a great extent provides some semblance of luck, good or bad, on the part of the hitter. But you are correct that some players BABIP will be higher or lower than another. There should be regression, and there is a league average, but the regression towards average isn’t necessarily towards the league mean. As you’ve noted, line drives are more likely to be hits than grounders or fly balls. That is measured by line drive %. Freeman’s was 23% last year. Players with more speed also tend to have higher BABIP, such as Ichiro, given the number of infield hits they are likely to get. But get this – Albert Pujols has only posted a BABIP as high as Freeman’s last year twice in his career, and only once has he surpassed Freeman’s line drive %. So again, I love to be wrong but it isn’t likely Freeman’s numbers from last year are sustainable without real improvement.
JAFO
February 25th, 2012
11:54 pm
Until “Dear John” makes good on his commitment to “repair our weaknessess”, my STH renewal remains in a state of disrepair.
Stinger2
February 26th, 2012
4:45 am
Sonny Clusters: Like everyone, you have a right to your opinion about Chipper, Freddi and the Braves in general.
However, if you are really a Braves fan, it would be
refreshing to hear some new comments instead of those you have posted since last year.
Everyone has heard you by now Sonny. We know how you feel. At least, find something new about the Braves to complain about.
Disgusted
February 26th, 2012
6:59 am
Can you count on the same productivity out of Venters and Kimbrell that you got for five months of the season before they tired out?
And you have to account that there will be some injury and fall off by guys who did have good yrs.
Heyward should be better, Mc Cann hopefully will have a better second half and I would gladly take Uggla’s numbers again (would like 20 more opints on OBP) assuming that he maintains it more consistently over the course of the season.
Will Freeman maintain his rookie success–that is a wait and see and they are going with a rookie at short who we do not know about yet.
The keys are the healthy of JJ, Hudson and Hanson. If that does not work out we are going with a bunch of unproven kids in a division that is tougher now—You have three lineups in Miami, Washington and Philly that are not easy to pitch through.
Until they prove me wrong, I say 4th place and 83 wins. The division will be so competitive that first thru 4th might be a less than 10 game difference. I say 92 wins the division, 90 wins finished second and 87 wins gets u third with 4th at 83.
It could be the other way around but do not sell me the rose colored glasses sun isin the sky get over September after what happened.
I am going to Boo them as they take the field when I go to my 1st game in April till they win again if ever. Yes—I am still bitter about it and they can win 5 WS in a row and I will NEVER forgive what happened.
Disgusted
February 26th, 2012
7:00 am
Stinger 2—Why should the poster post new sunny side up comments after what happened in September?
Who owes the Braves anything? Its up to them to show that they are better than what they did down the stretch.
bulldogbubba
February 26th, 2012
7:22 am
I like Sonny’s deer stories, its almost like being there. We honestly won’t know if the EPIC FAILURE is forgotten until we break camp.Are you gonna play the hit and run or are you gonna play hit for the fence style of game.
Bob the Blogger
February 26th, 2012
7:24 am
Chipper is the first person I’ve ever heard say “sunscreen is for sissies” while he’s standing there with a sunburn. He’s gonna love getting those skin cancers burned off for the rest of his life.
Mitchell
February 26th, 2012
8:33 am
Oh, that’s reassuring.
Convinced. Weren’t they convinced this time last year that 2011 was “The Year”?
Wasn’t that the mantra, “This is Our Year”?
That old guy in Oakland, California who keeps telling everyone the world is coming to an end has more credibility at this point.
Mitchell
February 26th, 2012
8:44 am
Bobby Cox lost four World Series in nine years.
Why should it come as any surprise that “they’re all here” after missing the playoffs last year?
They won fourteen division titles in a row and barely made the playoffs one year out of the six since.
Give me a freakin’ briz-ache.
This is a loser organization with nothing but a bunch of hack reporters who do nothing but kiss @$$ for a living.
Joey
February 26th, 2012
8:46 am
“Everyone has heard you by now Sonny”
***************************************
And a bunch of us wait for the next Sonny-post, Stinger2. Just scroll past, if you must.
old fart
February 26th, 2012
8:48 am
The AJC should hire Sonny Clusters to write a column three times a week. If there’s a payroll issue at the AJC then either fire Dave O’Brien or let him write an entertainment column on his BS music.
dale morphy
February 26th, 2012
8:54 am
I am feeling very positive about the Braves’ ability to score more runs this year and about Gonzalez’s commitment to situational hitting. However, the elephants in the room are Jurrgens and Hanson. I hope I am wrong, but I think Hanson is done. His mechanics are absolutely unsustainable. He barely bends his back or rotates his hips through his delivery, and with a more-than-3/4 arm angle it creates too much torque on his arm and shoulder. As a fan, albeit without inside information, it appears nobody in the Braves organization has attempted to correct or improve his mechanics. As it stands, he has about one full season left before Tommy John or irrelevancy due to lack of velocity or poor location. On the flip side, Jurrgens seems to have great mechanics but bad lack: he can’t keep his power base healthy. It looks like it is a chronic and career shortening condition in that it happens year after year. I hope I’m wrong about these guys but I don’t think so.
Joey
February 26th, 2012
8:56 am
If Fredi hadn’t wore out the ‘pen last season, we woulda made the playoffs . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .and probably choked. But still, we make it instead of the Cards.
Last year, some guy on here started on Fredi on the day he was hired, asking, “why hire a manager with a losing record?”
I thought he was a jerk. After a season of Fredi-watching, I think he was ahead of the curve.
Lobosolo
February 26th, 2012
8:56 am
Robert, you and phil and Mitchell need to look up alexis before too long and get some of those binkies from him… we get it… you don’t like Bobby Cox… jealousy, maybe? Who knows, but your mama might want to know you’re spending too much time crying about yet something else on the internet and not minding your lessons… world doesn’t need anymore ignorant, stupid crybabies, you know… get back to work, Mr. Wah-Wah…
Joey
February 26th, 2012
9:07 am
Um, Dale, who, pray tell, is gonna knock the runners in? We have the same, exact hitters, who were dead last (or next to last) in hitting with RISP in all of MLB. We have the same, exact doofus manager setting the batting order.
I want to be optimistic about the hitting. Tell me how?
Mitchell
February 26th, 2012
9:10 am
If all we keep hearing in the final weeks of the season is Braves players making comments to the of, “Hey, we may be on the verge of missing the playoffs again in spite of being in first place for three months in a row but if you told us in March that we still had a chance in September, that would be awesome,” then nothing’s going to change.
You don’t hear the Yankees saying that and that’s probably the reason they’re not only in it in September, they’re winning in September.
But then again I suppose we ought not compare ourselves to the great Yankees, except for the fact that we were their equal if not their superior in baseball’s regular season for ther better part of a decade plus.
But we were all so spoiled in the first place, weren’t we? We Braves fans never really deserved to enjoy the kind of success we were fortunate to witness firsthand lo those many years. It was never truly meant to last.
It’s different nowadays. We only have an all star at every position. Perhaps if we’re really lucky the baseball gods will smile upon us in 2012 with the chance to see our Braves play meaningful games in September.
A boy can dream.
Joey
February 26th, 2012
9:10 am
Lobosolo = Bobby Cox
Slapped the old lady around lately, L?
Mitchell
February 26th, 2012
9:21 am
I wasn’t bashing Bobby Cox.
I was just stating a fact… Jack.
And as for Fredi wearing out the bullpen, that’s on Frank Wren.
I heard Mark Bowman in an interview in November say players were divulging to him that Larry Parrish “wasn’t working.”
That was apparently in April and since the media in Atlanta is so deferential to the Braves it wasn’t reported.
But surely Frank Wren had to know, didn’t he? I mean, I wouldn’t be surprised if he didn’t since, again, it wasn’t written about… by anybody… but the fact that he sat there and saw how badly the bullpen was being overworked due to the horrible offense and essentially did nothing about it, i.e. firing Mr. Parrish, tells me he’s either a complete wuss and ineffectual, an idiot or is not committed to doing everything in his power to help his team win games… or all of the above.
The Braves didn’t score enough runs, the starters don’t go deep enough into games… who’s going to be counted on to win games.
The bullpen.
Thank you. Good night.
DetroitBraves
February 26th, 2012
9:22 am
@Joey, the Braves offense was not only bad with runners in scoring position last year they were just plain bad. No matter what situation you look at they just didn’t get it done. But to answer your question, they did much better in 2010 with a lot of the same players. I’m not sure I buy it either, at least until I see it, but maybe there is your hope.
As for Sonny Clusters, keep on keepin’ on. I don’t think Chipper is nearly as bad as Sonny does but I appreciate the wit, can at least sympathize with the sentiment, and am in total agreement that Fredi is inept. And really, who could argue with the notion that the Braves need more sunscreen and less cap tippin’?
Joey
February 26th, 2012
9:26 am
So a GM should keeping up with a manager’s own hitting coach, as well as monitoring innings pitched and appearances by the bullpen? Should we blame him when the men’s room is out of soap too?
So . . . . what’s the Manager’s job?
Joey
February 26th, 2012
9:28 am
Good points all, Motown, especially re the cap tippin!
G
February 26th, 2012
9:28 am
“Freeman will be better this year”… isn’t that what everyone said about Heyward last year? This team is mediocre. Pitching is not better, hole at third, hole in left, and too many “should be better” players…
C from Marietta
February 26th, 2012
9:38 am
Nothing like a blog to bring out the jerks.
Jeff Schultz
February 26th, 2012
10:08 am
DetroitBraves — I pay no attention to statistical projection books written by Fantasy geeks.
Jeff Schultz
February 26th, 2012
10:10 am
Caseyatthebat — I don’t care about 1 game or 20 games, I care about 162. The point of that line in the column was, if they win one more game then they’re in the postseason. And the Cardinals reaffirmed to everybody last season that all you need to do is get there, then see what happens.
Jeff Schultz
February 26th, 2012
10:11 am
Old Fart — “The AJC should hire Sonny Clusters to write a column three times a week.”
<< I totally agree.
abby normal
February 26th, 2012
10:17 am
Last year was last year. Lets move on! Lets quit speculating about Heyward’s new swing or whether or not the new guy can play short at the major league level. Just play the games and see what happens.
Ben
February 26th, 2012
10:23 am
Braves and sox both had collapses. red sox have a complete overhaul. Braves don’t. Let’s see which one works out best. My money is on the sox.
OWB
February 26th, 2012
10:27 am
Marlins and nats will both be better than last year. I don’t see them making the playoffs at all. JJ will have a .500 record. Hanson is a trainwreck now with the injury bug. They will be lucky to win 80 games.
reckingball
February 26th, 2012
10:50 am
I think that the Braves will win their division this year, and that they have a very good chance of going to the WS, and winning it also.
reckingball
February 26th, 2012
11:04 am
David O’Brien is one of the best writers that AJC has, if not the best.
IF the AJC were to hire Clusters, I would hope that he might find some fresh material, the ragging on Chipper Jones is getting a little repetitious.
Perhaps some more stories from his youth, when he was great.
GO Braves!!!!!
1eyedJack
February 26th, 2012
11:07 am
“…almost every player from a year ago, save the anchor, Derek Lowe, was there.”
Apt description of Derek Lowe. Weighed down by the “stone”. I wouldn’t want to take him fishing in my boat. Besides, he’d probably drink all my beer.
Sonny Clusters
February 26th, 2012
11:10 am
We was hurt by yet another comment from little Stinker2 about our not being a true fan. We was a fan with Stinker2 was still learning about the infield fly rule. Being a fan does Not mean being a cheerleader. Being a fan should allow us to have and express an opinion. We spent a lot of money on tickets and parking and concessions last season and we wasn’t always happy with what we saw. We was in the house for the Derek Lowe implosion and left early which we don’t like to do along with about 35,000 others. Stinker2 can spout his drivel and we won’t tell him to stop blogging or find another team to support just because we don’t agree with him but we are trying to be careful responding to him because he may be challenged or in a special school and we don’t want to hurt his feelings. The Braves need all the fans they can get right now whether they are “true” fans, “real” fans, or fans like us who want to see better baseball and less puffing about mythical championships.
Sonny Clusters
February 26th, 2012
11:17 am
We are getting controversial just like Jeff. We know that getting on Chipper isn’t very popular with true fans like the guy posting with the Tech handles. We almost went to Tech so that hurts our feelings some but we overlook that because he can relate to Chipper better than us and that is understandable if you ever heard uh, Chipper talk. When Chipper is chosen to be the voice of the team you pretty much have to accept that the voice is going to embarrass you a few times and accept that he talks one way and leads another. Still, he’s a 40-year old guy that calls himself Chipper and sits out with bad toenails and twisted thumbs not to mention Tim Lincecum and Roy Halladay. We aren’t a cheerleader but we are just as good a fan as anybody on here and we want to see better baseball and less hype about the storied history of the franchise. The story is not the one we’re being told. Credit the homeboy upstairs for a clever deception. Also, hold the homeboy accountable for his end-of-season letter. Reading that, we wonder how Fredi survives.
Sonny Clusters
February 26th, 2012
11:20 am
Jeff, thanks. We’ll write a column for you anytime you need us. Maybe while you are on vacation.
1eyedJack
February 26th, 2012
11:30 am
Sonny, how does it feel to go to game 162 knowing DLowe is on the bump? I’m always a bit leary of starting pitchers who sweat that much.
iTiSi
February 26th, 2012
11:36 am
I don’t recognize any of those faces facing the camera in the picture, other than FG. Anyone want to name all of them from left to right?
jeffrey d
February 26th, 2012
11:46 am
Thanks Jeff…great read
I know positivity has never been a strong point of blogs, but the Braves have a lot to look forward to. The 2011 Braves, collapse included, won 89 games. The 2012 Braves are essentially the same team minus Lowe, minus McLouth, and minus Proctor.
Plus, Prado has proved pre-staph infection that he’s an above-average hitter, I highly doubt Uggla will still hit under .200 for half a season, and Heyward seems to have made the necessary adjustments. Oh, plus we’ve got 3 young stud pitchers who are Major League ready.
1eyedJack
February 26th, 2012
11:49 am
jeffrey d, you left out Linebrink, Sherril, and Conrad.
jeffrey d
February 26th, 2012
11:51 am
Jack – well Sherrill and Linebrink weren’t that bad (especially Sherrill), but I was never a big Conrad fan
jek
February 26th, 2012
11:53 am
Hope? Promise? Spring?–Forget it already!–The Braves have no pitching and no power hitters-and are managed by guys name Wren and Freddie.!!
Gene
February 26th, 2012
11:54 am
Chipper lost me when he refused to look up for a kid’s photo outside the Braves dugout.It wasn’t like Jones was zoned out on the game cause he noticed the ladies. Then he pulled up on the foul that led to the tailspin against Houston. Then he hurt his toe, and his oblique, and got flu-like symptoms. Then he got painful sunburn.
Sonny Clusters
February 26th, 2012
11:56 am
1eyedJack, we was sitting in good seats, too. Lowe was sweating when he got to the park. We was sweating through 2 1/3 innings that he pitched. The 9 hits wasn’t so bad considering he was tossing BP out there but the 6 runs was something they couldn’t overcome. It was a big crowd, too. Everybody around us was saying Fredi didn’t want to win or know how to win. We would have started Homer the Brave instead of Lowe but Fredi reminded us of the year before when Lowe was strong at the end. We thought Fredi didn’t like to look back but he was looking back last year. We’re going to be looking back at September and wondering if Fredi learned anything he could do different besides coming to the park early. If we was Fredi we’d call Tony LaRussa and ask him about how he willed the Cards to the WS championship. We are taking some heat getting on Chipper but he was a big part of it and he is the one constant now of the years and years without a championship and we mean a championship that would be recognized around the league like a pennant or a World Series. Those participation awards out in the outfield are a joke and they should come down before the season begins. Let’s follow Fredi’s advice and stop looking back. The only thing that counts is can you win the pennant this year with virtually no additions of any significance to the team?
1eyedJack
February 26th, 2012
12:06 pm
jeffrey d, I got the feeling when Linebrink came out of the bullpen as I do when the baby gets ahold of a hammer.
Sonny Clusters
February 26th, 2012
12:08 pm
If the Braves have put last year behind them and aren’t looking back because the future is all that counts . . . we was wondering why don’t they put all those fake championships behind them, too, and take down those silly little flags for being “Wild Card Champions” and anything less than a NL pennant? It would seem to us that if we only look forward we acknowledge that it has been many years since the Braves won a championship and the storied history is not so storied as they’d have us think. Going forward, they can forget last year if they like but don’t be selective about what you remember and what you forget. As for us, we won’t be forgetting and we won’t be forgiving the deceptions. We heard a Braves exec make a speech a few days ago and he said spending more money was losing more money and they would concentrate on exciting the fans with promotions and lower concessions prices. He actually said that. They can Bark in the Park all they like but playing dog baseball like they did with Lowe cannot be tolerated going forward.
reckingball
February 26th, 2012
12:09 pm
When a person drinks a lot of beer, they will sweat a lot.
Larry
February 26th, 2012
12:20 pm
“I think if you look back over the last 20 years, we had our share of games where we snatched victory from the jaws of defeat — back in the heyday. Maybe it’s somebody’s way of getting us back.”
“I talked to him via text before the World Series, and I said, ‘Y’all are going to kill these guys,’” he said, referring to St. Louis”
Just how much more overwhelming and convincing evidence do the members of the pork rind goober club need to validate Chipper is one of the dumbest and worst leaders in a clubhouse?
Every time he opens his mouth mammoth amounts of stupid pours out!
jeffrey d
February 26th, 2012
12:22 pm
The Braves have no pitching and no power hitters-and are managed by guys name Wren and Freddie.!!
Well first off, Freddie Freeman isn’t managing the team, Fredi Gonzalez is. And Wren has done a lot with a little…not to mention he’s fleeced some other GMs on trades (see an aging Renteria for Jurrjens and a prospect, or Bourn for Reeses Cup and some other non-important prospects)
Second, the Braves were 3rd in the league in homers last year, and by my count there’s nine capable guys that can fill out the rotation. Hanson, Hudson, Jurrjens, Minor, Beachy, Teheran, Vizcaino, Delgado, and Medlen.
You can mope and be miserable if you want, by I’d rather look forward to seeing pre-injury Hanson and Jurrjens and much more this year
1eyedJack
February 26th, 2012
12:22 pm
Well, DLowe did spend time in the Red Sox organization, which is known for having a fun clubhouse. Budweiser, has been known to have a stimulating effect. I’ve known of a couple of championship softball teams fueled solely on beer and pork rinds.
Larry
February 26th, 2012
12:25 pm
reckingball
February 26th, 2012
10:50 am
I think that the Braves will win their division this year, and that they have a very good chance of going to the WS, and winning it also.
These same kind of dolts that think the Braves can win a WS under fuiti will be the same dolts that re-elect the community organizer in November claiming he’s doing a good job.
Larry
February 26th, 2012
12:26 pm
jeffrey d,
Fredi Gonzalez is managing the team? Since when?
jeffrey d
February 26th, 2012
12:29 pm
Last February
jeffrey d
February 26th, 2012
12:30 pm
These same kind of dolts that think the Braves can win a WS under fuiti
What’s fuiti? The name of Turner Field’s new dome roof?
George Stein
February 26th, 2012
12:37 pm
Good lord. More emphasis on bunting? How does Fredi plan on teaching situational hitting? Why, instead, doesn’t he just get them to hit?
Calling them fantasy geeks is remarkably immature, Jeff. The projections offer a lot of insight, which I’d think a sportswriter would want. Also, the use of a loaded term like geek to dismiss the point is borderline unprofessional. Why not debate with facts?
DetroitBraves
February 26th, 2012
12:49 pm
Jeff Schultz, you are in a unique position to help take the conversation forward. The so-called fantasy geeks you speak of are very much adept at modeling, at dealing with distributions, which like it or not baseball numbers have to adhere to just as much as clinical trials or actuarial projections. Furthermore, there is not one single major league ball club that doesn’t employ advanced inferential analysis, though some take advantage better than others. Taking your stance is just resigning oneself to living behind the curve. I like your writing. I appreciate your humor. But George Stein is right, that was borderline unprofessional and given your position somewhat irresponsible.
1eyedJack
February 26th, 2012
12:54 pm
Speaking of beer and sweating a lot, I bet the Babe smelled ripe after 9 innings in them flannels.
Dennis
February 26th, 2012
12:56 pm
Do people here have the right to criticize? Yes as long as AJC allows them to post. Do some criticize to see their name in print? Yes. Do some criticize for the sake of being ornery? Yes. It really boils down to the “half full-half empty” analysis. To some here the glass is always half empty while others see the glass as half full. Mr. Clusters is a half empty guy…nothing wrong with that..it is what he is. Nothing short of a $200M payroll and a World Series will make him happy.
Sonny Clusters
February 26th, 2012
1:05 pm
Dennis we was never half empty when we was paying full price for our tickets. We just asked for better baseball and more accountability and here you was putting words in our mouth about $200 million payroll and a World Series. And somebody said we was not a good fan and somebody else said we thought Prado should play third base ahead of uh, Chipper and we never said that. We are on record for playing the Henry Grady statue at third base for better defense. Jeff could probably help with that since the AJC left downtown for Dunwoody and didn’t take the statue with them. As for being ornery, we eat lots of roughage and have no problems of that sort. Have a nice day.
DetroitBraves
February 26th, 2012
1:05 pm
@Dennis, I agree with you. In the end all any of us want for this club is to see them win. We can argue about how best for them to go about that, or how good we think they will be without resorting to calling each other stupid, or idiots….or fantasy geeks. We should be on the same side more or less. Seems like we could disagree without insulting.
George Stein
February 26th, 2012
1:06 pm
2011 Fantasy Geek Projection for Freddie Freeman: .282/.335.446
Actual: .286/?350/.459
Yeah, they offer no value.
Steve
February 26th, 2012
1:25 pm
Yea George, predicting the future is easy!
reckingball
February 26th, 2012
1:48 pm
Larry@12:25…..Yeah, he has my vote.
Have you taken your meds today?
DetroitBraves
February 26th, 2012
2:03 pm
Modeling isn’t fortune telling. Since no model explains all of the variability it follows that at the individual level there will likely be at least some divergence, occasionally much divergence, between what’s observed and what’s expected. This doesn’t invalidate the model. By incorporating more data while alleviating our personal biases we will find much greater concordance. And what exactly is the alternative? Taking Fredi’s comparison of Gilmartin to Glavine seriously? To each their own I guess.
Bill
February 26th, 2012
2:46 pm
“Chef” must agree on Freeman…super player and person. Thanks!
George Stein
February 26th, 2012
3:00 pm
Of course it isn’t perfect, Detroit. But as you say, it’s better than the alternatives and more data is always preferable to less.
tim scott
February 26th, 2012
3:21 pm
one would hope murphy’s law won’t happen again. however I would bet hard money that the first time janice heyward gets a boo boo she’ll be done. he is a bum and a pansy to boot real nice article back to form, doesn’t change his whimpy side.
Disgusted
February 26th, 2012
3:22 pm
“I pay no attention to statistical projection books written by Fantasy geeks”
Jeff–Thank God, the only thing good that has come out of the sabermetric perversion of baseball statistics is that some one is paying more attention to OBP.
Stats like WHIP, and OPS do have some real performance based meaning to it.
We had reliable enough data for yrs that was easy to understand, and it was sufficient.
The dumbest stat is WAR, Wins above replacement of what??? Wins above replacement of the ikes of what projected typical AAA player. Jose Constanza? Chris Thorman??? Buddy Carlysle???
Its a ficticious stat like VORP, BAIP and the other junk out there. FIP and some of this other stuff, these geeks forget that there is more than strikeouts to get batters out.
In the end, bottom line is who won the game?
Would guys like Greg Maddux, Tom Glavine, Dave Mc Nally and Mike Cuellar even get a shot in today;s game. Specialization of pitchers stinks. .
DetroitBraves
February 26th, 2012
3:59 pm
Greg Maddux is the 8th greatest pitcher in the history of baseball according to WAR. Yeah, I think he would get a shot. The replacement level is theoretical. He is sufficiently untalented as to make him readily available to any and all major league teams by definition. I believe I’ve read that a team made up of only replacement level players would win about 26 games of 162. But his level isn’t really that important, the level chosen being one of interpretative convenience, the importance instead owed to providing a standardized construct. Again, every major league team employs these more advanced methods. Google some of the long-time writers for BP, Fangraphs, etc. and see who they work for today. You’ll have to forgive baseball, and in fact the greater scientific community, if they don’t wallow in less satisfactory measures so that people unable or unwilling to understand don’t feel left behind. If you’re not adapting you’re obsolete. Oh, and good try on OPS. That’s sooooo 1998.
Sonny Clusters
February 26th, 2012
4:21 pm
Jeff must be having a good time at Spring Training and we hope he is. If we was there we’d take him out for a big seafood meal and then we’d stop by Dairy Queen for some dessert. Going to the Dairy Queen with a Clusters is like walking into Buckingham Palace with the Queen. People are always nice to you and you can get extra nuts or cherries on anything you order for no charge.
Larry
February 26th, 2012
4:25 pm
reckingball
February 26th, 2012
1:48 pm
Larry@12:25…..Yeah, he has my vote.
Have you taken your meds today?
Why am I not surprised…stupid is as stupid does!
cowdogit
February 26th, 2012
4:40 pm
Chipper’s wife screamed when she saw a mouse in the kitchen, Chipper said hold on dear I’am getting my shotgun.
reckingball
February 26th, 2012
4:43 pm
Glad to see that you are taking your prescriptions, Larry.
GO BRAVES!
Mets R Best
February 26th, 2012
4:49 pm
Hey Braves fans! Your worst nightmare…you have to play the Mighty New York Metropolitans 6 times in April.
reckingball
February 26th, 2012
4:55 pm
Mets 6 times in Apr., great news.
Mets R Best
February 26th, 2012
5:08 pm
Yeah, 6 easy wins for the Mets.
Dumbfounded again ?
February 26th, 2012
5:18 pm
“Chef” Tim Dix
February 25th, 2012
8:06 pm
Bill: Here’s something on Freeman: Of all that has been said about the collapse and the players to blame, there was one who did not falter, good ol’ double F.
Penciling him in for the next 20y or so.
Huh, He made the last out of the season ?
George Stein
February 26th, 2012
5:23 pm
Freeman’s September stat line: .226/.305/.366
Stinger2
February 26th, 2012
5:38 pm
George: I respect most of your comments on the AJC blogs.
No disrespect on the one you made about RBI`s not being a useful measure of productivity a couple of days ago. However, I just did not understand why you have this opinion. Can you amplify? Thanks.
DetroitBraves
February 26th, 2012
5:47 pm
You know, I was probably a bit harsh with @disgusted earlier. Though we disagree on the value of advanced metrics, and @disgusted correct me if I’m wrong, I think we agree that we are confused as to why Fredi is still calling the shots for the Braves. There is bound to be disagreement but there is much common ground out here too.
I wonder if Fredi would tip his cap to us bloggers.
George Stein
February 26th, 2012
5:50 pm
Sure, Stinger2. The skill required to get a hit with a guy on third is no different than it is if the bases are empty. Another way to think of it is say Bourne singles to lead off the inning, then Prado doubles to the right field corner and Bourne, because of his superior speed, scores from first. Identical scenario, except that it’s McCann that leads off the inning with a single, then Uggla doubles to the right field corner (let’s pretend he hits to all fields) but McCann only gets to third. Is the hit by Prado any different than the one by Uggla?
Essentially, you are assigning credit to a player for something that he had nothing to do with (in the case above, the hit to start the inning).
George Stein
February 26th, 2012
6:01 pm
My prior comment is why I’m so frustrated having to hear people – especially those within the organization – talk about situational hitting. Why don’t our players just hit rather than hit situationally.
Stinger2
February 26th, 2012
6:08 pm
Thanks George. I understand your example and the point you made.
George Stein
February 26th, 2012
6:10 pm
Sure thing, Stinger.
Jipper Chones
February 28th, 2012
3:06 pm
Every winter I swear I will maintain my Braves cynicism going into Spring. I won’t entertain a fool’s hope again. But every February, my mind takes the bait, traces out the ways it could work, sees how different it might be.
But not this year. This ship is sunk. The young talent is nice and Wren is a decent baseball mind, and even the payroll is enough to get it done. However, Chipper’s old, worn out, and prone to running his mouth too much. Heyward’s an attitude problem waiting to hatch (mark my words). And Mike Minor? STFU, dude. Our trio of Boras clients is enough to take the starch out of any collar. The stadium’s in the damn ghetto, the crowds at Turner are stale, small, and lifeless come rain or come shine, winning or losing. Kimbrel’s and Venters’ arms are ripe for Birmingham. And Fredi Gonzalez is a dunderheaded, smiling, arrogant (with no good reason for arrogance) clown.
Oh, AND the Fish and Nationals are way to good for the Wild Card to come out of the East. Fuhgettaboutit. This year, let’s admit up front the Braves are dookie soup.
Braves will be better off with a more aggressive mindset | Jeff Schultz
February 28th, 2012
6:12 pm
[...] • Braves convinced everything can’t go wrong again [...]
AlanFalcon
February 29th, 2012
8:31 am
alphonso, you need to go back to school.
LUCK
February 29th, 2012
10:49 am
The Brave’s out to keep in mind that Lightning does strike twice sometimes and that convicted crack dealers can win the Lottery twice………it’s happened!
Feel it
March 2nd, 2012
5:12 pm
I am really enjoying the information of this site keep it up
My Braves’ camp wrap (and finally, your questions) | Jeff Schultz
March 4th, 2012
1:39 pm
[...] – Braves convinced everything can’t go wrong again [...]