Hall of Fame: Murphy thumbs up, juicers thumbs down

There's too much smoke about steroid use.

There's too much smoke around Bagwell

Murphy will get my vote -- but he won't get in.

Murphy will get my vote -- but he's a longshot.

I was going to hold off on this blog for a few weeks until I actually had the 2012 Hall of Fame ballot in my hand and started checking off names for the next class to be enshrined in Cooperstown, N.Y. (a trip that, by the way, remains on my bucket list). But after listing the candidates Wednesday and finding myself debating the merits of Dale Murphy (clean) and Mark McGwire (dirty) on Facebook and Twitter, I figured I might as well get this out of the way now.

So, following are the 27 players on the ballot. Voters can select anywhere from zero to 10 players for enshrinement. Some voters are really silly about this, like they won’t vote a guy in the first time because they don’t think he’s a “first ballot” Hall of Famer, but they’ll vote for him after. Seems kind of stupid to me. If a guy belongs in, I don’t see the point in waiting. Anyway, I’m voting for seven. (Prediction: Only Barry Larkin and Jack Morris get the required 75 percent of the vote to make it in.)

As always, those who’ve admitted or were suspected of using steroids and/or performance enhancing drugs generally are going to be rejected by voters. (By the way: Barry Bonds will be on the ballot next year.) So with that, here are my thoughts on the candidates. And yes, I’m voting for Murphy.

(Listed alphabetically.)

• Jeff Bagwell: No. He has a Hall of Fame credentials (449 homers, 1,529 RBI, .297 average, MVP). But he was well short of induction last year with only 41.7 percent of the vote, at least in part because he has been suspected of using PEDs. Sports Illustrated’s Tom Verducci summarized the Bagwell debate nicely when he wrote: “Bagwell was an admitted Andro user who hired a competitive bodybuilder to make him as big as he could be, who claimed, [Mark] McGwire-like, that Andro “doesn’t help you hit home runs,” who went from a prospect with “no pop” to massively changing his body and outhomering all but six big leaguers in the 13 seasons before steroid penalties (Ken Griffey Jr. and five connected to steroids: Bonds, [Sammy] Sosa, Rafael Palmeiro, McGwire and Juan Gonzalez), and who condones the use of steroids — but said, “I never used.” Yeah. I’m going to need a few more years on this one.

• Jeromy Burnitz: No. But he played for eight teams, including the Indians, Cubs and Pirates. At the very least, I think we owe him a beer.

• Vinny Castilla: No. Castilla was hitting 40 homers a year in Colorado. He hit 12 and 22 in his two seasons in Atlanta, batting .254. Chipper Jones will never forget those two season. He watched them from left field.

• Juan Gonzalez:  No. Has been linked to steroids and HGH. He was named in the Mitchell Report, which detailed how he was found with a bag at the airport loaded syringes and steroids. Most meaningless statistic of all: his 434 homers.

• Brian Jordan: No. One of my all-time favorite athletes (in two sports). It would’ve been fun to see what he could’ve done if he just played one. Had a terrific career (15 seasons, .282, 184 homers, 821 RBIs) but not Cooperstown material.

• Barry Larkin: Yes. I can’t believe he didn’t get in last year (received 62.1 percent of the votes) but he’ll get in this year. A 12-time All-Star, three-time Gold Glove, nine-time Silver Slugger at shortstop with Cincinnati. Finished with 2,340 hits. Slam dunk.

• Javy Lopez:  No. The former Braves catcher doesn’t have the career numbers, and for those with suspicious minds, his 43-homer season in 2003 (a contract year) jumps way off the page.

• Edgar Martinez: No. A strong case can be made that Martinez has HOF credentials: .312, 2,247 hits, 309 HR, 1,261 RBIs. But I don’t like the fact that for most of his career — 6,218 of 8,672 plate appearances — he was a designated hitter. DH is a half-player in my book.

• Don Mattingly: Yes. Over 2,000 hits, nine Gold Gloves, seven All-Star Games. One MVP. A great ambassador for baseball. A thousand times, yes.

• Fred McGriff: Yes. Even if he didn’t hit 493 home runs, I think the fact that the Atlanta-Fulton Stadium press box caught on fire the day the Braves traded for him, cementing their 1995 World Series championship, is reason enough to put him in the Hall.

• Mark McGwire: No. He only finally admitted steroid use, not because of regret or shame but because he wanted to come back to coach and try to salvage his legacy. And by the way, I’m not sure he would’ve been a HOF player without steroids.

• Jack Morris: Yes. He also should be in already (received 53.5 percent of the vote last year). Beat John Smoltz (barely) in the greatest pitching match-up most have ever seen (1991 World Series). Won 254 games, finished with 2,478 strikeouts, 175 complete games.

• Bill Mueller: No. I’ve heard of him.

• Terry Mulholland: No. Ex-Brave. Can’t knock a guy who has a 20-year career. Just doesn’t mean he gets a bronze plaque.

• Dale Murphy: Yes. Murphy won’t get in but I’m voting for him anyway — again. I’ve heard the arguments about him not having the career numbers. But when you win consecutive MVP awards, there’s an acknowledgement that you were one of the best players in the game. Five Gold Gloves, four Silver Slugger Awards, seven All-Star selections, 398 homers — and he mostly played on crummy teams.  And yes, he should get points for not juicing and representing the game the right way.

• Phil Nevin: No. Suddenly became Hercules in 2001 with 41 homers in 2001. Go figure.

• Rafael Palmeiro: No. I went to those Congressional steroid hearings in Washington D.C. The only difference between McGwire and Palmeiro is Palmeiro lied. (McGwire wasn’t interested in answering questions at all.) Palmeiro even pointed his finger at the panel for impact!

• Brad Radke: No. Did he room with Bill Mueller?

• Tim Raines: Yes. He was one of those players who always scared me. He played 23 seasons and had career averages of .294 with 57 stolen bases and 93  runs. He had six straight seasons of 70-plus steals and the 808 in his career rank fifth all time. For some reason, he has been kept out.

• Tim Salmon: No. But he did hit 299 homers and captains the All-Fish team with Mike Carp, Mudcat Grant and, of course, Catfish Hunter. (Feel free to add more down below.)

• Ruben Sierra: No. He’s on the ballot for the first time. He had a long (20 year) and solid career. He goes into the Hall of Very Good.

• Lee Smith: Yes. But it’s close. Some never considered a dominant closer, just a very good one. But he led the National League in saves four times and his 478 saves rank third in history. Isn’t that worth something?

• Alan Trammell: No. Another Hall of Very Good member. Over 2,000 hits, four Gold Gloves and a World Series MVP won’t be enough. 

• Larry Walker: No. Much like my aversion to career designate hitters (Martinez), I’m predisposed to giving the stink eye to guys who build career numbers in the thin air of Colorado. Walker hit 258 homers and batted .334 in 10 years with the Rockies. He hit 125 homers and batted .282 in eight seasons in Montreal and St. Louis. Thumbs down.

• Bernie Williams: No. Another very good player, but that’s it. If his vote total becomes inflated, it’s because he played for the Yankees.

• Tony Womack: No. A bad way to end a career, via Wikipedia: “He received a non-roster invitation to spring training with the Washington Nationals for the 2007 season, but was released on March 8.”

• Eric Young: No. Played for 15 seasons. And that’s all I’ve got to say about that.

By Jeff Schultz

Follow me on Twitter (@JeffSchultzAJC). Friend me on Facebook (Facebook.com/JeffSchultzAJC).

169 comments Add your comment

nelson

December 2nd, 2011
11:06 am

who cares .. in truth that passes that have not signed anybody. now the marlins just make a change with sd by bell and us nothing, holding nothing more than prospects so let’s come up with something?

John in PA

December 2nd, 2011
1:27 pm

Jeff, why did my favorite non-Brave, Will Clark, not get more support?
15 seasons, 2176 hits, 284 HRs, 1205 RBI, .303 BA, and .333 BA in 117 postseason ABs, and no suspicion of PEDs.

Nelson

December 2nd, 2011
1:36 pm

Dear Santa: What the Braves need for Christmas is an i-Left, an i-Short with two i-Bats, and if it is not too much to ask also an i-Owner!!!!

Tom

December 2nd, 2011
4:36 pm

i’m someone that that believes when you retire either you were hof’er or not, guys careers don’t get better with age like wine.

Bill@TPA

December 5th, 2011
11:36 am

This is the kind of thing that makes me wish I could stop caring about the Hall of Fame entirely. You point out that Don Mattingly and Trammell have basically the same credentials (the differences are that Trammell played a more important position and was robbed of an MVP he deserved, while Mattingly was given one he didn’t, and oh yeah, that Trammell was just a much, much better player), yet vote for Mattingly but not Trammell. Most of the rest of it is based on whether you have a positive personal memory of the player, with cherry-picked statistics as a (really, really lame) post facto attempt to justify the pick. Edgar Martinez can’t make it in because he’s a “half player,” yet Lee Smith, who racked up those gaudy save totals by pitching 40-60 innings a year toward the end of his career, is worthy.
And of course the baseless suspicion about Bagwell is just disgusting, but I’m too fed up with that nonsense to even get into it.
So, overall, well done…

Lukehart80

December 5th, 2011
12:22 pm

If Edgar is only “half a player” because he didn’t play the field, shouldn’t Jack Morris only be half a player because he didn’t bat?

If you’re willing to turn steroids into a black and white issue, you should have far higher standards for whom you accuse of using.

You might be a fine journalist, but your arguments here are largely based on very weak logic and I think it’s a shame you have any say in which players are inducted into the Hall of Fame.

terence

December 5th, 2011
12:47 pm

This ballot is a crime against humanity. Not one shred of evidence linking Bagwell to PEDs ever. Not one. Get bent.

terence

December 5th, 2011
12:52 pm

Also, Smith gets a vote as a “non-dominant” closer but the DH is “half a position”? What kind of logic is that?

[...] innocent. And a year ago The Common Man took their ideology and placed it on the writers. This year Jeff Schultz has started the trend again and TCM was all over [...]

Robert

December 7th, 2011
10:35 am

Well the veteran’s committee just made one of the most pathetic slections of all time.

Ron Santo was a very good baseball player. He belongs in the Cubws Hall of Fame for sure. But he was not Cooperstown material. And to this the fact that he got voted in almost a year to the day after he died, highlighting the fact that this was a pity vote – and you get one of the most pathetic selections of all time

The standard ploy for anyone campaigning for the Hall of Fame is to take the stance that they deserve it because some aspect of their career stat line compares favorably to a guy who already has a plaque

I propose the opposite stance. Try this. If your guy’s contribution to offense doesnt exceed that of Dick Allen, then why are you even bothering to apply? (For pitchers, make that Ron Guidry)

Ron frickin Santo – Who do we get next year? Keith Hernandez and Rico Carty?

Robert

December 7th, 2011
10:40 am

“If Pete Rose isn’t in the HOF then nobody should be. Shut the place down.”

No. Rose broke the one and only absolute commandment that the game makes to its players

Rose certainly had a HOF caliber playing career.

Rose’s real crime was that he did something that hurt the entire institution of baseball by doing something that keeps himself out of the HOF

Of the 7 billion or so human beings on Earth, the abolsute last ten in line for consideration for election into Cooperstown should be the 8 Black Sox, Pete Rose, and Bobby Cox

Robert

December 7th, 2011
10:52 am

By the way, I am reading a good book about Sandy Koufax. One little snippet really jumped out at me last night. The book is divided into chapters detailing his life story alternating with chapters that give an inning by inning account of his September 1965 perfect game. In one of these it is mentioned that playing in that game was a guy who had was spending some time during the day on the phone with his wife who had given birth to a son far away a couple of days previously. (I believe the player was Maury Wills, but I am not positive without the book in hand)

Anyway – the anecdote includes a comment from the author that ‘leaving the team in the middle of a tight pennant race was unthinkable’

What a CONCEPT! – Maybe someone could run this by a certain deer hunting 3rd baseman we all know

Robert

December 7th, 2011
11:00 am

“In my opinion, if Duke Snyder is a hall of famer, then Dale Murphy is as well. The Duke hit 9 more home runs and 77 more RBI’s then Dale, and had 1 more all star appearance (8 vs. 7). However, on most other categories, Dale has him beat”

The primary factor that should determine whether an eligible (as in, has his 10 years) guy who played offense belongs in the HOF should be – did he contribute to his teams’ offensive production during his regular season career to a degree that was in the truly exceptional class

The rest of the stuff (All-Stars, Gold Gloves, postseaon, individual moments of glory, the guy’s character and reputation) can enhance or detract from a HOF case, but cannot be the foundation of it.

Duke Snider had a career adjusted OPS of 140.

Dale Murphy had a career adjusted OPS of 121

This is on a scale where 100 represents an average ballplayer and every 10 points is supposed to represent a standard deviation

So, I dont know what stats you are referring to when you claim that there were many where Murphy exceeded Snider, but it’s plainly obvious that as regards the most important thing that determines whether a guy does or doesnt belong in the HOF, that Murphy isnt even in the same area code with Snider

Robert

December 7th, 2011
11:03 am

“In my opinion, if Duke Snyder is a hall of famer, then Dale Murphy is as well. The Duke hit 9 more home runs and 77 more RBI’s then Dale, and had 1 more all star appearance (8 vs. 7). However, on most other categories, Dale has him beat”

Duke Snider had a career adjusted OPS of 140

Dale Murphy had a career adjusted OPS of 121

Sustained excellence in contribution to offensive production has to be THE primary factor to consider in deciding whether an everyday player merits HOF induction

I dont know what stats you are referring to when you claim Murphy outachieves Snider, but in the one area that ought to be most important to the HOF, Dale Murphy (while two standard deviations above an average big leaguer) isnt even in the same area code as Duke Snider

Robert

December 7th, 2011
11:31 am

On page 3 there’s a guy whose says about Murphy that he is borderline but he’d vote him in on intangibles. This same guy says no to Mattingly

Well, my friend – Mattingly had the better career adjusted OPS and higher per season WAR than Murphy – Mattingly had an MVP, 6 AS’s and 9GG, to 2,7,and 5 for Murphy.

Bottom line – among Yankees fans it’s Mattingly to whom they;d give the nod based on intangibles while being perfectly ok with denying Murphy

The Dodgers fans will holler for Steve Garvey

Togers fans will nominate Norm Cash

And so on

Every franchise has this guy – Not only has the HOF set a bad precedent recently by inducting these guys in droves in recent years, but it started with the wrong guys – (Cash I can see, but Rice and Santo? Please)

Now – I WILL say this – There’s a point to be made that if Santo and Rice, then Murphy

But if Murphy – then Mattingly and Garvey

And it justs becomes too many guys

It’s the Hall of Fame, people, not the Hall of very good players who were heroes and role models to a generation of kids from a particular corner of the country who collected all their ballcards and think he was the specialest guy ever especially since there’s a story about how he once coached some dude’s middle school tiddlywinks team

Robert

December 7th, 2011
11:53 am

“Chipper is already being talked about with doubt”

The thing I have ever seen doubted about Chipper is whether he will be first ballot

“Sandy Koufax is in the Hall of Fame, and he only had six strong years himself”

Dale Murphy had a run of six years where he was arguably the second best player in the National League. Koufax six season run is one of the three or four best such runs by a pitcher EVER. There’s a difference

“It really baffles me that Ty Cobb is in the hall of fame yet Dale Murphy …. cant get in”

If you dont see the difference between Ty Cobb and Dale Murphy, I suggest you try switching to watching some game other than baseball

What I guarantee you is that if the same people that are writing these bits of antiwisdom were reading say a Yankees fan blog where the name Mattingly was substituted for Murphy, they’d be scoffing at the authors as biased homers.

A lot of people really liked Dale Murphy. And Murphy was a pretty good player. We get it.

Look at Murphy’s comps on baseball-reference.com.

One clear HOFer. One awful HOF selection. And several guys whose fans, like Murphy’s, keeping whining about their favorite guy isnt in Cooperstown

Robert

December 7th, 2011
12:24 pm

Someone asked why it is that the fans dont get to vote for the HOF.

Now, my first reaction was to think – scroll thru this blog and you’ll see why

Because would you give a guy a vote who thinks Tony Gwynn and Larry Walker had very similar career numbers? Or to a guy who cant tell Dale Murphy from Ty Cobb?

But then, you know what – give the fans the vote and what would happen if about 30 million idiots would work to cancel each other out. Two wrongs would prevent a wrong (i.e. – the Yankees fans for Mattingly and nay to Murphy and the Braves fans for Murphy but denying Mattingly would cancel – and neither would get in, which is the correct outcome)

Give the fans the vote and keep a 75% cutoff, and I guarantee you only the real elite guys would even stand a chance in Hades.

Robert

December 7th, 2011
12:29 pm

“BARRY LARKIN: Great hitting shortstop with defense and basestealing. He easily meets the SS standard”

The HOF standard? As in played in the majors for ten years and isnt banned from the game? Hello Blauser and Belliard

There is no other standard. The HOF never set parameters.

MM

December 8th, 2011
12:19 am

Two more for the list:

Skip Caray: Yes!!!

Tim McCarver: NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!