Hall of Fame: Murphy thumbs up, juicers thumbs down
There's too much smoke around Bagwell
Murphy will get my vote -- but he's a longshot.
I was going to hold off on this blog for a few weeks until I actually had the 2012 Hall of Fame ballot in my hand and started checking off names for the next class to be enshrined in Cooperstown, N.Y. (a trip that, by the way, remains on my bucket list). But after listing the candidates Wednesday and finding myself debating the merits of Dale Murphy (clean) and Mark McGwire (dirty) on Facebook and Twitter, I figured I might as well get this out of the way now.
So, following are the 27 players on the ballot. Voters can select anywhere from zero to 10 players for enshrinement. Some voters are really silly about this, like they won’t vote a guy in the first time because they don’t think he’s a “first ballot” Hall of Famer, but they’ll vote for him after. Seems kind of stupid to me. If a guy belongs in, I don’t see the point in waiting. Anyway, I’m voting for seven. (Prediction: Only Barry Larkin and Jack Morris get the required 75 percent of the vote to make it in.)
As always, those who’ve admitted or were suspected of using steroids and/or performance enhancing drugs generally are going to be rejected by voters. (By the way: Barry Bonds will be on the ballot next year.) So with that, here are my thoughts on the candidates. And yes, I’m voting for Murphy.
(Listed alphabetically.)
• Jeff Bagwell: No. He has a Hall of Fame credentials (449 homers, 1,529 RBI, .297 average, MVP). But he was well short of induction last year with only 41.7 percent of the vote, at least in part because he has been suspected of using PEDs. Sports Illustrated’s Tom Verducci summarized the Bagwell debate nicely when he wrote: “Bagwell was an admitted Andro user who hired a competitive bodybuilder to make him as big as he could be, who claimed, [Mark] McGwire-like, that Andro “doesn’t help you hit home runs,” who went from a prospect with “no pop” to massively changing his body and outhomering all but six big leaguers in the 13 seasons before steroid penalties (Ken Griffey Jr. and five connected to steroids: Bonds, [Sammy] Sosa, Rafael Palmeiro, McGwire and Juan Gonzalez), and who condones the use of steroids — but said, “I never used.” Yeah. I’m going to need a few more years on this one.
• Jeromy Burnitz: No. But he played for eight teams, including the Indians, Cubs and Pirates. At the very least, I think we owe him a beer.
• Vinny Castilla: No. Castilla was hitting 40 homers a year in Colorado. He hit 12 and 22 in his two seasons in Atlanta, batting .254. Chipper Jones will never forget those two season. He watched them from left field.
• Juan Gonzalez: No. Has been linked to steroids and HGH. He was named in the Mitchell Report, which detailed how he was found with a bag at the airport loaded syringes and steroids. Most meaningless statistic of all: his 434 homers.
• Brian Jordan: No. One of my all-time favorite athletes (in two sports). It would’ve been fun to see what he could’ve done if he just played one. Had a terrific career (15 seasons, .282, 184 homers, 821 RBIs) but not Cooperstown material.
• Barry Larkin: Yes. I can’t believe he didn’t get in last year (received 62.1 percent of the votes) but he’ll get in this year. A 12-time All-Star, three-time Gold Glove, nine-time Silver Slugger at shortstop with Cincinnati. Finished with 2,340 hits. Slam dunk.
• Javy Lopez: No. The former Braves catcher doesn’t have the career numbers, and for those with suspicious minds, his 43-homer season in 2003 (a contract year) jumps way off the page.
• Edgar Martinez: No. A strong case can be made that Martinez has HOF credentials: .312, 2,247 hits, 309 HR, 1,261 RBIs. But I don’t like the fact that for most of his career — 6,218 of 8,672 plate appearances — he was a designated hitter. DH is a half-player in my book.
• Don Mattingly: Yes. Over 2,000 hits, nine Gold Gloves, seven All-Star Games. One MVP. A great ambassador for baseball. A thousand times, yes.
• Fred McGriff: Yes. Even if he didn’t hit 493 home runs, I think the fact that the Atlanta-Fulton Stadium press box caught on fire the day the Braves traded for him, cementing their 1995 World Series championship, is reason enough to put him in the Hall.
• Mark McGwire: No. He only finally admitted steroid use, not because of regret or shame but because he wanted to come back to coach and try to salvage his legacy. And by the way, I’m not sure he would’ve been a HOF player without steroids.
• Jack Morris: Yes. He also should be in already (received 53.5 percent of the vote last year). Beat John Smoltz (barely) in the greatest pitching match-up most have ever seen (1991 World Series). Won 254 games, finished with 2,478 strikeouts, 175 complete games.
• Bill Mueller: No. I’ve heard of him.
• Terry Mulholland: No. Ex-Brave. Can’t knock a guy who has a 20-year career. Just doesn’t mean he gets a bronze plaque.
• Dale Murphy: Yes. Murphy won’t get in but I’m voting for him anyway — again. I’ve heard the arguments about him not having the career numbers. But when you win consecutive MVP awards, there’s an acknowledgement that you were one of the best players in the game. Five Gold Gloves, four Silver Slugger Awards, seven All-Star selections, 398 homers — and he mostly played on crummy teams. And yes, he should get points for not juicing and representing the game the right way.
• Phil Nevin: No. Suddenly became Hercules in 2001 with 41 homers in 2001. Go figure.
• Rafael Palmeiro: No. I went to those Congressional steroid hearings in Washington D.C. The only difference between McGwire and Palmeiro is Palmeiro lied. (McGwire wasn’t interested in answering questions at all.) Palmeiro even pointed his finger at the panel for impact!
• Brad Radke: No. Did he room with Bill Mueller?
• Tim Raines: Yes. He was one of those players who always scared me. He played 23 seasons and had career averages of .294 with 57 stolen bases and 93 runs. He had six straight seasons of 70-plus steals and the 808 in his career rank fifth all time. For some reason, he has been kept out.
• Tim Salmon: No. But he did hit 299 homers and captains the All-Fish team with Mike Carp, Mudcat Grant and, of course, Catfish Hunter. (Feel free to add more down below.)
• Ruben Sierra: No. He’s on the ballot for the first time. He had a long (20 year) and solid career. He goes into the Hall of Very Good.
• Lee Smith: Yes. But it’s close. Some never considered a dominant closer, just a very good one. But he led the National League in saves four times and his 478 saves rank third in history. Isn’t that worth something?
• Alan Trammell: No. Another Hall of Very Good member. Over 2,000 hits, four Gold Gloves and a World Series MVP won’t be enough.
• Larry Walker: No. Much like my aversion to career designate hitters (Martinez), I’m predisposed to giving the stink eye to guys who build career numbers in the thin air of Colorado. Walker hit 258 homers and batted .334 in 10 years with the Rockies. He hit 125 homers and batted .282 in eight seasons in Montreal and St. Louis. Thumbs down.
• Bernie Williams: No. Another very good player, but that’s it. If his vote total becomes inflated, it’s because he played for the Yankees.
• Tony Womack: No. A bad way to end a career, via Wikipedia: “He received a non-roster invitation to spring training with the Washington Nationals for the 2007 season, but was released on March 8.”
• Eric Young: No. Played for 15 seasons. And that’s all I’ve got to say about that.
By Jeff Schultz
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169 comments Add your comment
Stuart
December 1st, 2011
12:26 pm
I would vote for Murphy under the same premise you have. I would go with Jack Morris and Don Mattingly with Larkin and Smith just missing out.
Homo the Brave
December 1st, 2011
12:32 pm
I would vote YES on Alan Trammell. He had the unfortunate situation of playing SS in the shadows of two AL guys named Yount and Ripken. If both of those guys had played in the NL with Ozzie Smith, Ozzie may not be in the HOF today.
I would also vote YES for Edgar Martinez. You may think much of a player who was a career DH, but he was the best DH in history.
I vote NO on Don Mattingly. He was a very good firstbaseman, but his numbers are almost identical to Wally Joyner’s. So the question is whether you think Wally Joyner is HOF material. I think the answer will be NO.
Mr. Dawg
December 1st, 2011
12:35 pm
Clear back when Pete Rose was banned from MLB and the Hall of Fame for violating baseball’s code of ethics in spite of mind boggling hitting numbers, I drew the opinion that the way Dale Murphy’ represented baseball was enough to push him and his so-called “boderline” career on the field into the Hall of Fame. As future players who hold records and have better numbers than him continue to be voted down for Hall of Fame induction because of steroid use I say the argument for Murph grows stronger.
Vince
December 1st, 2011
12:40 pm
Neither Murphy nor Mattingly belong in the HOF. Both very good players, but their stats don’t measure up. It’s not just excelling for a few key years, it’s also excelling for the duration. Murphy batted .265 for his career, with 1266 RBIs. compare those totals to others in the HOF and they’re lackluster. Mattingly had 222 HRs and 1099 RBIs for his career…as a first baseman. Hardly HOF caliber. Yeah, they’re great guys and good ambassadors for the game…but that doesn’t mean you’re HOF worthy.
Hetch Hetchy
December 1st, 2011
12:41 pm
Murphy has a .265 career average. If he had hit 500 homeruns, maybe he could be discussed a little for the HOF. However, his 398 is far, far behind that number.
2010 BCS CHAMPS
December 1st, 2011
12:50 pm
“Murphy thumbs up, juicers thumbs down”
Damn straight!
2010 BCS CHAMPS
December 1st, 2011
12:51 pm
I’ve argued with idiot Cub fans about how they think Greg Maddox will go into the HOF wearing a Cub uniform.
Phil the Pill
December 1st, 2011
12:52 pm
Dale Murphy should be voted in if for no other reason being that Andre Dawson is in and Murphy was always better than Andre. These guys had the same kind of career.
gator32301
December 1st, 2011
12:56 pm
Also – you ding Edgar Martinez for being a “part-time player” but vote for Lee Smith, who basically pitched an 3 innings a week – almost exclusively with his team already ahead.
Barry
December 1st, 2011
12:58 pm
At the time Andro was simply another supplement,like taking vitamins or drinking a powerade.Its only been considered a controlled substance the past few years.
coldcocky
December 1st, 2011
1:01 pm
More for the All-Fish Team: Sid Bream, Randy Bass, Kevin Bass, Chico Salmon…
Sonny Clusters
December 1st, 2011
1:04 pm
Juicing and baseball just don’t mix. One time when we was little and playing ball we played a team from Cobb County and all of ‘em had facial hair and some of their mommas. We was pretty sure they were juicing and once or twice we’d see ‘em get in a rage and turn red faced and something would come out of their ears. We liked to stay close to home after that.
NANA
December 1st, 2011
1:17 pm
No way should any juicers ever get in! ever, ever, ever. Cheaters should never win. It would set a horrible example to children coming up! NO NO NO!!
ATLcracker
December 1st, 2011
1:34 pm
All Fish Alex Gonzalez gets in three ways: Nickname Sea Bass, Team Marlins, his play- Crappie.
j
December 1st, 2011
1:37 pm
Murphy deserves to be in the HOF. Great player and class act. Of course, I’m biased. He was my rec. league basketball coach 20 years ago. Great guy.
James
December 1st, 2011
1:39 pm
It really baffles me that Ty Cobb is in the hall of fame yet Dale Murphy and Pete Rose cant get in.Yes I know what he did on the field and off.I can only assume that character was not a factor when Cobb went in as it is now.Such a shame.
Mike
December 1st, 2011
1:39 pm
The voters should not have to be the arbiter of whether a guy used PED’s or not. The truth is no one will ever really know who did and who didn’t (with a few obvious exceptions). Many players believe at least half of the league was using during the late ’90’s. So you either vote everyone in (if they have the numbers) or you vote no one it. Otherwise, too many players will be victims of innuendos and rumors. See Bagwell, Jeff. And Bagwell was considered a prospect with projected power down the road even though he didn’t hit a ton of homers in the minors. Go look at his doubles totals. Those doubles often turn into homers as guys mature and grow.
phil
December 1st, 2011
1:47 pm
Fire FG!
Dale dominated the 1980s and belongs in the hall but will never make it due to the usual bias against players from down our way, not that there have ever been many that deserved it.
Chipper is already being talked about with doubt when the question of whether he belongs should never even be ASKED.
phil
December 1st, 2011
1:48 pm
j
December 1st, 2011
1:37 pm
Murphy deserves to be in the HOF. Great player and class act. Of course, I’m biased. He was my rec. league basketball coach 20 years ago. Great guy.
**********
And I once saw him live at a game at old Fulton County…..
Carol Dunaway
December 1st, 2011
1:57 pm
Have watched Dale Murphy play since he started with the Braves and I must say that as an avid baseball fan, Murph is among the finest people and one of the finest baseball players ever. Have met the man in person and seen the sense of fair play and honesty that he exemplifies ; I would love for my grandson to follow in his foosteps. Murph deserves the HoF!!!
Mark
December 1st, 2011
2:02 pm
If Aaron and Mays weren’t first balloters, no one will be. In my opinion, the writers should not be doing this – too much personal animosity shown and too rigid in their “principles.” Let former baseball executives, managers, etc, who know the game and can make some sound, objective choices. There are some legitimate first-timers who should be voted first-timers to set them apart from any other HOFer.
Hillbilly D
December 1st, 2011
2:40 pm
I will preface my remarks by saying that I agree with the criteria set by the late baseball writer Joe Falls. He said that he always asked himself one question, “Was this guy a dominant player, in his era, at his position, for a sustained period?”.
Here’s the ones I would vote for:
Barry Larkin Pretty much self-explanatory.
Jack Morris The guy was a horse. A top of the line pitcher in his time and a big game pitcher to boot. He wanted the ball when the game was on the line and he wanted to finish what he started.
Dale Murphy His numbers are borderline but I’d put him in on the intangibles. The guy was one of the top players in the NL during the ’80s, on some pretty horrid teams. He was a 5 tool guy and could do it all. His numbers are nearly identical to Gary Carter’s. If Carter is in, Murphy goes in, too, in my book.
Tim Raines Another gamer. Didn’t hit for power but did everything else. His base stealing and base running made up for his lack of pop. Saw him go 1st to home one night in old Atlanta Stadium and I’ve never seen another human being moving as fast as he was, when he rounded 3rd base. To top off all that, he was a fierce competitor.
Lee Smith When he retired, he was the all-time Saves leader. He came before the era of the 3 out closer. I’ve seen him pitch many a 5 and 6 out save. If you had trouble brewing in the 8th, or even the 7th sometimes, Big Lee was coming in and you weren’t going to see anybody else up in the bullpen, from there ’til the end.
Borderline guys: Mattingly and McGriff. Not sure if I would vote for them or not but wouldn’t be upset if they get in.
No way guys: Bagwell, McGuire, Palmiero for obvious reasons. Edgar Martinez. He’s by all accounts a great guy and he put up some big numbers but like Jeff, I don’t think half a player gets in.
Rowsdower
December 1st, 2011
2:49 pm
@JoeDawg
Steroids do not help you hit home runs. What they do is heal you faster which allows you to perform at peak levels throughout the season rather than fading in August and September like mortals do during a 162 game season.
They also allow you to workout much harder than you should be able to during the season. This makes them stronger which means those warning track fly balls are suddenly landing in a bay somewhere.
There’s simply no way Bonds, McGwire and Sosa have the HR totals they had without steroids. There is no way in hell Bonds passes Hank if he’s not juicing.
The same thing applies to the Roger Clemens’ of the world. The steroids allowed them to recover quicker which made them more effective. I’ve been pitching for 30 years. After that first start of the season, you’re running at about 90% with a steady decline as the season goes on.
None of those douchebags should be in the HoF.
Hillbilly D
December 1st, 2011
3:04 pm
I’ve argued with idiot Cub fans about how they think Greg Maddox will go into the HOF wearing a Cub uniform.
Actually, the Hall of Fame chooses the uniform and the player has no say in the matter. Andre Dawson went in as an Expo, even though he preferred to go in as a Cub.
rivercard
December 1st, 2011
3:09 pm
Don’t see how you can vote against Bagwell based on him taking what was at the time a legal and popular supplement(Andro). If you have knowledge of his taking something illegal -fine. Otherwise not a very principled position.
Based on today’s somewhat watered down criteria Raines, Morris, Larkin and Smith should be slam dunks. Murphy, Mcgriff , Martinez and Trammell – on the fence.
Nativebird
December 1st, 2011
3:11 pm
If the DH is 1/2 a ball player (and I agree that he is), than a relief pitcher is 1/2 of a 1/2 of a ball player (at least in the American Leaque). And then that makes a closer a 1/2 of a 1/2 of a 1/2 of a ball player. NO WAY a guy like Dennis Eckersley or Catfish Hunter should get the same bronze plaque that Nolan Ryan got. just No way. Period.
Hillbilly D
December 1st, 2011
3:21 pm
Eckersly was a starter about half of his career. A pretty good but not great one. Catfish Hunter was a starter, not a closer.
Nativebird
December 1st, 2011
3:38 pm
My bad Hillbilly D, I meant to say Goose Gossage, not Catfish. and Eckersly by and large was known for his career as a reflief pitcher. Never the less, it still holds……they’re not ball players, not even full pitchers. So get’em a different Hall.
Hillbilly D
December 1st, 2011
3:49 pm
Nativebird
You’re right about Eckersly. He was a pretty good starter but he never would’ve been considered for the Hall on that part of his career.
SEC Fact Finder
December 1st, 2011
4:43 pm
I was fortunate to be working in Baseball during the Dale Murphy era( well part of it) and the common thing in our opposing dugout during spring training games was after he learned to hit the curve ball to not throw him anything over the plate and to keep everything really really low. He still found ways to hit those low pitches. Dale had very little in front of him and very little behind him. If he had just “good” players on his teams he would have gotten a great deal more pitches.
When Dale came up he could run, hit, and field. Not the best or even close to it all three but he was “the talent” on a some poor teams. Still won two MVP’s on sheer talent alone.
He would get my vote and I saw up close and personal the sterioids during my time with the Oakland A’s while in Huntsville AA ball with Mc, Canseco and many many others.
Zing
December 1st, 2011
4:54 pm
JS:
Pretty much agree, except for Larry Walker. Do you think his BA was inflated as much as 30 points by playing half his games at CO? That would still put him at hitting .300 for that long, long period of time. That’s awfully good. (And I don’t think .030 is actually reasonable, given that he was more of a contact hitter than a homerun guy). You’d need to look up what the league averaged there, seems to me, during that period.
I remember seeing Walker play– at his peak, he was the best pure (non-juiced) hitter in the game. It was virtually impossible to get him out. Very similar to Tony Gwynn. (And very similar numbers as well… hmmm….)
Disagree on that one. Otherwise… yuppers.
rugburn
December 1st, 2011
5:00 pm
i’ve always hated that knucksie had to wait to get in and nolan ryan didn’t…check the records. very close. knucksie played on some really bad teams while ryan chased the money to better teams. 7 no-hitters? awesome! that’s 7 games…..
living in the past
December 1st, 2011
5:07 pm
aah, the good ole days….when you could take $25 to the Launching Pad, get into the game, sit anywhere you wanted, eat and drink to your heart’s content and watch baseball while listening to Pete, Skip and Ernie on your radio……
unfortunately, I don’t think Murph will make it until the folks who grew up in that era get enough votes to put him in. (if it ever happens…) too bad.
Mitchell
December 1st, 2011
5:13 pm
I’ve never heard of Phil Nevin in my entire life.
Who the hell is Phil Nevin?
By the way, Brian Jordan? Is that a joke?
Anyway, seems like he’s been retired longer than five years. He’ll make the broadcasters wing of the Hall of Fame that’s for sure.
I can rest easy at night knowing that.
Mitchell
December 1st, 2011
5:19 pm
Fred McGriff and Dale Murphy are Hall of Famers.
And I don’t mean, “They’re Hall of Famers in my book, wink.”
They are Hall of Famers. Period.
If they don’t make the Hall of Fame within the next two years I’m burning the quaint, lakeside hamlet of Cooperstown, NY to the ground.
I’m not going to do that. That was a joke.
MitchC
December 1st, 2011
5:30 pm
Jeff, I agree with most of your list.
As for Murph: While he did win two MVP’s. He unfortunately has two things against him. One.. on the bubble career numbers of a 265 batting average lifetime, and “only” 398 homers. That, and his injuries and decline the last few years of his career.
If you’ve read Tom Glavine’s book, you know that Glav said he feels Murph is probably on the bubble, but “should” get in.
I dont think Murph will get in. Not only because of his numbers, but also because, except for 1982 and 1983, the Braves flat out stunk when he played for them. It took Knucksie until his sixth try to get in, and he won more games than Tom Seaver.
The Braves that will be in the Hall. Maddux and Glavine definitely. Smoltz. I dont see how he doesnt,. being the only guy with 200 wins and 150 saves. If Eck got in, he definitely should. Chipper.. I dont think he will get to 500 homers. but.. he will have 450, and a 300 lifetime average. I’d say hes in too.
I dont think the Steroid guys should get in either. Hank and Babe and Willie Mays all hit more than 650 homers, and were clean. Bonds, Sosa, McGwire. No to all. If they didnt do it honestly, they dont deserve it.
I’ll be very surprised if Murph gets in, unless by the Veteran’s Committee one day. I had hoped he would play long enough to hit 500 homers, but, with his raw numbers, and the bad teams he played for, I have to say no.
fish oil
December 1st, 2011
5:42 pm
I’d vote for Ralph Garr and Bonito Santiago.
vermont 39
December 1st, 2011
6:51 pm
i am a Dale Murphy fan…unfortunately, he is the best candidate for the Hall of Almost Fame… I am also NOT a fan of Kirby Puckett or Don Drysdale being in the Hall of Fame…great moments…not careers…Mattingly is borderline for the same reason.
taxman
December 1st, 2011
6:52 pm
It wouldn’t surprise me if nobody went in this year. McGriff is so-so and so is Larkin but the rest of the group I don’t know. Dale Murphy won’t make it either.
Dick Large
December 1st, 2011
8:09 pm
All Fish Team: Gentleman George Haddock was a pitcher in the 1890’s.
SG
December 1st, 2011
8:25 pm
As much as Morris is one of all of my serious all-time favorites, he never won the Cy, but he did win a couple of WS including that infamous Game 7 —- and didn’t he have 3 no-hitters? One of the fiercest competitors I’ve ever seen in any sport. Vote him in. Oh yeh, Dale too!
Wes
December 1st, 2011
8:33 pm
Love the ballot. One of the few writers I actually agree with. If Mattingly used steroids to recover from his degenerative back condition there is no telling the numbers he would have put up.
Raines TRULY belongs in the Hall. He was the best, and most feared, player on his team and two of those teammates are already in (Carter and Dawson). Morris big game ability truly deserves notice. Not 100% sure he belongs but it’s hard to argue against the guy who was probably one of the top 3 pitchers for a decade.
snarf
December 1st, 2011
8:58 pm
:0 :p ;p >:(
Just saying..
December 1st, 2011
9:44 pm
Everything about Cooperstown, NY? A big YES!
The baseball HOF? Major League Baseball should be ashamed.
Jim K
December 1st, 2011
10:26 pm
Dale Murphy had six years of Hall of Fame cailber play, no more. In no other full season did he ever hit .280, drive in more than 85 runs, slug .480, or hit as many as 30 home runs. Look it up.
Murphy could not hit a low outside pitch after 1987, when he was 31 years old. When he was 32 hit hit .226 for the Braves; when he was 33, he hit .228. Halfway through the next year he was hitting .245 when — quick, make the deal — the Phillies offered us Jeff Parrett for him. Players who get traded for Jeff Parrett at age 34 are not HOF material.
Being a great guy and not doing drugs may earn you a place in Heaven, but not Cooperstown.
Charles
December 1st, 2011
10:33 pm
Raines doesn’t belong either. I always thought he was a great player until I saw Ken Burns
“Baseball” documentary showing Raines sliding into second with a vial of cocaine in his back pocket. If steroids don’t belong, neither does coke. No way Raines.
Chip
December 1st, 2011
11:52 pm
I agree with most of your selections, but disagree on Edgar Martinez. If the Hall is reserved for the best players, I can tell you that Edgar Martinez was one of the best players of his era. Pitchers hated seeing him. He was a disciplined, fantastic hitter. The guy was clutch. He did it without ‘roids.
Steroids Rule
December 2nd, 2011
8:17 am
How about a special section in the hall of fame for steroid users!!!
Rich T
December 2nd, 2011
8:49 am
Hey Jim K: Sandy Koufax is in the Hall of Fame, and he only had six strong years himself. Look it up.
Bobby Cox's Belly
December 2nd, 2011
10:00 am
Jeff, I disagree. I would put “users” in but also account for the era of the non-juiced era.
Here are my YES votes:
JEFF BAGWELL: One of the top 5 at his position. Amazing hitter, but also a great defender and basestealer.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/bagweje01.shtml
BARRY LARKIN: Great hitting shortstop with defense and basestealing. He easily meets the SS standard.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/l/larkiba01.shtml
EDGAR MARTINEZ: Talk about one of the great pure hitters; homers, doubles, walks; he could do it all. Yes he was a DH, but other players are negative values by playing in the field.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/martied01.shtml
FRED MCGRIFF: I saw the Crime Dog is borderline but should get the nod. Very, very good for a long time.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/mcgrifr01.shtml
MARK MCGWIRE: One of the best home run hitters ever; first in HR/AB. Look, he is one of the most exciting players ever, and maybe the most feared hitters ever up there with Ruth and Bonds.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/mcgwima01.shtml
DALE MURPHY: Lacking in counting stats makes him borderline, but his prime was sustained and he was highly elite during it. He gets the nod; all around player too.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/murphda05.shtml
RAFAEL PALMEIRO: Actually never the best first basemen in his league, but his counting stats are tremendous. ONe of 4 players to have 3000 hits and 500 homers. A consistent powerhouse.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/palmera01.shtml
TIM RAINES: One of the best leadoff hitters ever, had the stolen bases but also the essential on base percentage and played great defense.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/raineti01.shtml
ALAN TRAMMELL: This shortstop was great all around and one of the best ever. I would rate him over contemporary Ozzie. His 1987 season was amazing.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/t/trammal01.shtml
LARRY WALKER: A supreme defender and supreme hitter. Was helped by Coors but did a lot of it on his own. Very, very exciting player and had all 5 tools.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/walkela01.shtml
That’s it for me. Morris was overrated due to wins. Mattingly had a shorter prime and was a first basement, so can’t be compared to Murph. Williams is close, but no cigar. Juan Gone was so poor on defense and baserunning and OBP even with roids(which I didn’t count).