Braves collapse, and the shine just came off Fredi Gonzalez

First

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Couldn’t agree more, Jeff. Well said.

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First?

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Sorry

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What idiot makes the decision to pitch to Hunter Pence with a base open to get to Martinez who by the way is hitting less than .200? Fredi—OF COURSE!!! He is the true MASTER OF STUPIDITY!!!

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You are correct Mr. Shultz. Fredi Gonzalez repeated mistakes that have been shown to decrease a team’s likelihood of winning. It is true that even a bad manager, one that constantly fields sub-optimal lineups, can’t effectively deploy his bullpen, and makes win probability in-game strategic errors only costs a team 4 or 5 wins over the course of a season. How many games did the Braves lose by? And is that even the point? By the way, amidst all the understandable negativity just wanted to say that I think Jeff Schultz and Mark Bradley have done a great job following the rise and fall of the Braves over this last month. Good work gentlemen. Haven’t enjoyed the collapse but I have enjoyed the reads.

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Benching Constanza in favor of Heyward doomed this team.

The offense did NOTHING with Heyward.

The offense was a small-ball dynamo with Constanza.

So of course! We’ll bench the guy who makes the offense work, in favor of the guy with the magazine covers!

The biggest mistake of Fredi’s career so far is benching “Georgie” in favor of JHey.

But hey, that’s the exact SAME kind of mistake Bobby Cox would’ve made, and made often, so maybe fans should treat Fredi the same way, and blame the players?

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Agree with you, Jeff. PLUS, I was amazed Fredi started Diaz in final game. (please don’t give the the righty/lefty bidness). He’s at best a AAA player. Don’t know whether to hang his bring-back on Fredi or Wren, but it was a flop. Henski and Conrad were bombs the last 4-5 weeks of season. Prado and McCann lost their way. Was a group failure.

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@UGABugKiller,

Not making excuses for the manager, because everyone doomed this team. The opportunities to win games were there. The most telling stat would be the LOB numbers over the time in September.

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Can we please just admit that if someone is so beat up and can’t contribute like Chipper was, they should sit. How many times does he get to roll out to second before realizing maybe the knee is a problem?

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Does this team look too much to Chipper to be the big stick and leader? Are they all swinging wildly waiting on Chipper’s double or solo homer?

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He failed to reiterate the fundamentals and basics to his team. When your team is struggling to hit, you must manufacture runs. Bunt people over. Make sacrifices. He didn’t really do that until a little last night. Also, when a hitter has 2 strikes, you saw the Phillies do it all last night; they shortened up and put the bat on the ball. They had at most half of the strikeouts that we had. Because we have guys like Uggla, McCann, Heyward, etc. trying to change the game with one swing with 2 strikes. It’s fundamentals that hurt us, not the lack of the big home run. The Phils didn’t hit 1 home run last night, and still scored more than we did. Pitching was fine. We just can’t swing it, period, the end.

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Hey Jeff, what does the schedule say about the Braves keeping up with the Phillies next season?

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Organizational enema. That’s what the Braves need. The Bobby Cox way of thinking hasn’t worked in a decade. It’s time for new, fresh ideas.

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I want to see a manager who is pissed off instead of accepting the total collapse, and isn’t complimenting his players for a good effort . Someone earier said braves have ‘a culture of acceptance’ – that’s well put. We need a manager who will light a fire under some guys. Scott Linebrink coming in reminded me of Charlie Liebrandt coming in to end 2 seasons – we basically threw in the towel.

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I had been a supporter of Fredi Gonzalez but it is now very clear that some of his decisions were, to put it mildly, unwise. To start Lowe in a critical game when it was obvious that he hasn’t pitched well in half of a season was bad. To give Jose Constanza such limited playing time while Jason Heyward was still busy biting the big one is very bad.

But the one decision that tells me that Fredi Gonzalez is totally clueless when it comes to strategic game management is when he allowed Linebrink to pitch to the best Phillies hitter (Hunter Pence) with the game on the line in inning 13 instead of doing the obvious in that situation and walking Pence and facing the Phillies scrub (Martinez) who was on deck at the time. That was the no-brainer decision for any manager but Fredi just didn’t seem to have a clue there. Totally unacceptable.

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This should be a fire a Freddie article. He was clearly way out of his league in managing all year starting the day he decided to walk a pinch hitter to pitch to the defending NL Batting Champ @ Colorado early in the season just because it was a lefty/lefty matchup. Who does that????

And the decisions last night were ridiculous. Why are we not bunting runners over when we can’t score runs???? Why are we not pitching around Pence when Howard is out of the game and you have a guy batting under the Mendoza line in his place??? Why? Why? Why? is what i said all night long.

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Dozer is right. The culture surrounding this organization is one of acceptance of mediocrity. They could be so much more, but they’re not and never will be. They NEVER make the big free agency moves or trades like teams such as he Phillies, who obviously want to win World Series titles. Then when they have one of the worst choke jobs in all of sports history, they shrug their shoulders and say “wait ’til next year,” as if Braves fans should expect anything less than more choke jobs and perplexing losing to lousy teams like the Nationals, Mets, Marlins, etc. To hell with Braves. I quit on them like they’ve quit on us.

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Hum… I haven’t watched a game since Smoltz and crew left….And I think I’m better off for it. When you get older, you just don’t want to give that much of life to something like Baseball. Maybe when I retire and I’m looking to kill 4 hours.

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Well at least we still have the Thrashers. Oops forgot. Back to depression.

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Yet,correct me if I’m wrong, did you see Freddie holding a bat in ANY of those situations?

Going by that logic, no MLB manager should ever be fired.

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This team was always a pitching collapse away from disaster. They simply CANNOT score enough runs. They don’t get timely hits. September has simply been what the rest of the season would have been like if a couple of our pitchers hadn’t healthy and Kimbrel wasn’t playing without the fear he showed last night.

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I would like to offer my congratulations to eeryone who wanted Bobby Cox gone. You got what you wanted.

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Somewhere, Jordan Schafer is smiling today!

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Who are the geniuses that gave 33% of the teams payroll ($30 million) to two players (Lowe and Jones). Lowe is less than average and Jones is at best average. Imagine that $30 million going to say four players in their prime at $7.5 million each. We would have real depth, possibly a .300 hitter or two and more experience all around. Blame the brain trust in the front office, their long term guesses killed this team.

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Good thing Schultz’s opinion counts for NOTHING.

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Starting Diaz over Heyward was just dumb..

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Jeff, how can you say that Heyward “still seemed to be a mess?” Other commenters, how can you STILL believe that Constanza should have been in there instead of Heyward? In the month of September, when the Braves offense collectively died, Heyward’s OBP was .375. Second on the team only to AGon (.385), who WAS HURT and otherwise would certainly have been in the lineup. There is no beef between Gonzalez and Gonzalez. Do you people follow the team? But I digress. The two players who took playing time away from Heyward in September – Diaz and Constanza – had a .265 OBP (34 PA) and .174 (24 PA) during the month, respectively. Uggla and Chipper were the only two other regulars who even approached league average OBP during September. In reality, one month doesn’t make or break a 162-game season, but to sit here the day after and put any sort of blame for the collapse on Heyward’s shoulders is absolutely moronic.

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Mitch, next year is the last year of Lowe’s contract….

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Did Fredi really, let Hunter Pence beat them really? Must win game, 2nd base open….. and he totally and completely blew it letting the best hitter left in the game beat them. I don’t get it.

I don’t want to be all negative today, I had a lot of fun last night at the ball park, but seriously, they CAN’T hit. The starting pitching is SOFT and almost never goes deep into games or survives seasons (Jurrjens; Hanson)

The bullpen has been worn slap out and massively overused for the entire season. The club not being able to hit even after bourn got here….

Don’t tell me they fought hard when they have been horrible for the better part of 2 months. They are professionals, they choked massively. Guys that get paid tons of money to produce, didn’t do anything.

Mac struck out 2 or 3 times last night and didn’t get the ball out of the infield. Chipper cannot be counted on anymore to be an everyday player.

I don’t see how we can feel good about any aspect of the team right now. I’m not confident this Braves team will make the changes they need to make to win.

Injuries are NO EXCUSE. The Cardinals have battled injuries all year. For all the talk of Chemistry all year, these guys DID NOT GET IT DONE AT THE PLATE.

If they go to the post with this same management group and same basic block of players we can expect that they will be an 89 or worse win team next year too.

It wasn’t the youth that let this team down it was the veterans down the stretch. Chipper, McCann and Derrick Lowe especially.

For the life of me, I don’t know why this team has a love affair with older guys who are garbage in the bullpen, Scott Linebrink; Scott Proctor etc etc etc. Every year there is a bum in the bullpen that costs them wins.

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Mark, didn’t Chipper lose a ball in the lights a couple nights ago.. I’m just saying…

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@Luke…..sorry my friend, you are the wrong one here. This team had no heart, no spirit, no guts, and therefore, no glory. Every single bit of that is on the manager.

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Lowe is awful, but it really wouldn’t have mattered unless you think the rookie would shut them out.

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You’ll have to list some specific things that Gonzalez should have done or not done, or I’ll just chalk this up to the manager gets too much credit when things go well and too much blame when they don’t. I think it is more on Wren than Gonzalez, and I’m not blaming him that much either. Nobody saw this coming. Certain key players just didn’t play well. It is how the Braves react to this going forward that will tell the real story. That’s where we will see what kind of management we have.

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Jeff,

You just skyrocketed to the top of all AJC sportswriters with your simple courage to be honest and straight-forward about this epic collapse. Please forward a copy of this to the Braves beat writer!

I’ll leave you with a quote from an internationally well known authority on management and leadership of people:

“The very best managers and leaders of people in all professions simply have the ability to get the most out of those they manage.”

Did Fredi Gonzalez get the most from those he managed?

Touché!

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Sorry, this isn’t twice the team as last year’s playoff team with Hudson, a bunch of rookies in the rotation…..and Lowe. That’s preposterous. Lowe was 0-5 with a 8.75 ERA this September. Does that sound twice as good as last year? I would say you would be correct if Tommy and Jair were healthy the last six weeks or so but they were not.

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The thing that sums up Freddi are 3 decisions he made this week. First going with Lowe was a TERRIBLE decision. That guy has been awful for most of the season. I hate going with a veteran just b/c hes a veteran and hes been there before. If every manager/coach thought like that there would never be any young stars. The other 2 occured last night, in the same play. First of all you have to walk Pence and pitch to Martinez. I thought that was obvious. I live in Syracuse, NY so i had to listen to the Phillies announcers on my MLB package and even they were saying “why are they pitching to Pence.” This makes no sense with Martinez on deck.” And also on that play, why do we have Freeman holding the runner on and not in a better fielding position? We need 1 out to get out of the inning and if the guy steals second who cares because if they score 1 run its going to be hard to overcome. Just so happens he hits a ball that Freeman would have easily caught if he wasn’t holding the runner. Bad decision after bad decision! We need a young fiery coach in this town not a guy who was fired from the Marlins because he lost his team.

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IF anything they should be looking to move soon to be expensive Jurrjens and or Hanson who cannot make it through a season and go after Corner Outfielders (and or a future 3rd baseman going forward) that can rake.

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I agree with the sentiment of the article, but for what it is worth, the Pythagorean on the w/l via Baseball-Reference shows that the ‘10 team was three wins under its projection and the ‘11 team was four wins over its projection.

This isn’t to excuse the collapse or the mistakes that were made during September. Mistakes make throughout the year impacted this team … Scott Proctor, anyone?

But, players and teams typically regress to the mean. (See Jurrjens pre-injury.)

At the end of the day, it’s a heartbreaking way to become the team they were all along. A time not-quite good-enough.

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You get what you deserve,
Freddi has to allow his oictures to pitch deeper into the game.
Don’t burn out the bullpen.
Allow his spped player to steal bases.

Wren has to scout better bench players and those who know
how to win under stress. Not just bring back the same guys who
don’t know how to win.
He has to get PROVEN run producers in the lineup, not
potential run producers.
Look at Tampa, I want what they’ve got, players who will not
give up!
We can have that. But it starts at the top!

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Way to stoke the fire, Jeff.

I hate Fredi Gonzalez. This guy is an absolute clown who in no way deserves this job. You can tell when he’s being interviewed the guy is completely out of his element.

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Someone needed to press Fredi on that decision to pitch to Pence though.

That was absolutely totally indefensible it was nuts. A half inning after Manuel in a game they didn’t even need decided not to pitch to our best current hitter Michael Bourne to get to Prado…. who meekly grounded out to Short.

They can’t even blame this on “major league pitching talent” The Phils were pulling guys from the stands to get it over. This line up choked all year long.

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Roadsterron is correct. It is hard to count all of the bonehead moves Gonzalez made this year. IMO he has ruined Venters and Kimbrel, our teams 1-2 punch.

Now that we are at the end of the season, one in which my comments were crucified at the beginning, lets look back.

Jeff Francouer. If some of you couldve reached through your monitors and choked me, it wouldve been done after I mentioned we get him instead of Hinske…. Feeling pretty stupid now arent all of you.

I said Chipper Jones and his pathetic contract would do what it did to us last year. We would end the season playing AA and AAA players in crucial situations. Constanza, Delgado, Teheran, Matt Diaz, Jack WIlson, and those poor relievers. Calling Wilson and Diaz, AAA players, is probably being too kind.

Lastly I said hiring Bobby Cox light for a team whose patrons were secretely TIRED of Bobby Cox was completely idiotic. What we ended up with was a guy that looked like a deer in head lights all season long. A guy who couldnt motivate paint to dry. A guy whose managerial skills include getting what you can from players you will only have for 3 years, Marlins… No wonder he rode Venters, Kimbrel, and O’Flarty’ into the ground.

Bottom line.

Gonzalez experiment over. Chipper should retire. And someone please pray that the Home Shopping Network goes under so Liberty Media will be forced to sell us to a group of people that give a sh….

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For the Record, I think Frank is wanting to go with faster guys going forward so there’s some transistion, but there’s no excuse to continue year to year with absolutely no Outfield talent that can hit.

Just awful.

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I don’t blame Heyward. I blame Fredi.

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Worst case of termites in the bats I’ve ever seen.

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Fire Frank Wren, and the hitting coach.

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No Mention of zero production from McCann and Prado. McCann’s hitting woes impacted his defense which was suspect to begin with. Prado appeared to be swinging a bat made of lead.

McCann, Prado, Heyward and Freemann, supposedly “good hitters” could not catch up to the fastballs in the final month of the season. The worst display of undisciplined hitting I’ve seen. Foul off fastballs belt high over the center of the plate, then strike out on off speed 6 inches outside.

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Got to hand it to you, Schultz – it’s rare that you write about the Braves, but when you do you kick ‘em when they’re down. Plenty of blame to go around, though.

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I thought Freddi G was a bozo when he was managing the Marlins. I was disappointed the Braves hired him and wouldn’t shed a single tear if they went ahead and fired the guy (which I hope they do).

I think Larry Parrish is definitely gone: they have to do *something* in the wake of the collapse and the hitting coach is a convenient place to start.

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Constanza would be in the Hall of Fame if not for Fredi Gonzalez! And pitching a rookie who didn’t look ready in his early season call-ups over a playoff-tested veteran makes all the sense in the world. Whatever. The team choked, plain and simple. Up and down the lineup and from the front of the bullpen to the back of the rotation, everyone during the month of September did something to cause this collapse to happen. Even the manager to some extent. This is a total team meltdown and no words or lineup changes would have stopped it. But, not to contradict myself, perhaps there was something to old #6 after all.

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@chuckw/deadjournalist – deviations from the pythagorean projections have been shown to be due somewhat to a strong bullpen, which the Braves had, but mostly just randomness. The key is that the pythagorean is based on the run differential equation, which is realized. If Gonzalez didn’t optimize his lineups, and didn’t deploy his bullpen effectively then the projected record would simply be based on a subpar differential. That the real record deviates little to none, one way or another, is just a matter of regression. A slight positive deviation does not absolve Gonzalez anymore than a negative one would condemn him.

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STUPID on AJC’s part to lead their so-called ’sports’ page with an opinion piece?? Put this frivolous nonsense where it belongs: in the opinion/commentary section.

Nobody hit this season. Was it Fredi at the plate swinging the bat? STFU.

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Karl Hungus:

Now why did you go and ruin the days of all of those people who think that Jose Constanza is the second coming of Rickey Henderson with FACTS?

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Funny how nobody in the press today has mentioned that once again Heyward didn’t hustle in right field. Happened last year in the playoffs, costing us a game. Last night in the 12th, Utley gets a hit into right field. Heyward isn’t on his horse hustling to the ball and Schneider, who was on 1B, almost stops between 1st and 2nd but trots his way into 3B because Heyward took his time getting to the ball. The next Phillies weak ass broken bat infield single scores the eventual winning run from 3rd. If Heyward is hustling on Utley’s hit, Schneider stays on 2B and absolutely does not score on that infield broken bat single. The game probably turns out the same because the Braves could not get hits off the Phillies AA and AAA pitchers but it doesn’t end in the 13th inning. How much is Heyward paid not to hustle in a do or die game?

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The Braves will lose more money from this collapse and missed post season, than they would have lost by simply letting Derek Lowe go at the trade deadline. Good money straight up a wild hogs a**!!!

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Look at their BATTING averages. Good team expected to challenge Philly? And just how are they going to do that with NO .300 HITTERS? The team can’t HIT, period, end of story. When a couple of their pitchers went down with injury, that’s was the end of this NO HIT DISASTER.

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Now for a bit of rest – not having to hear how Fredi screwed up or how LOUSY Heyward is playing or Chipper pontificating about leadership – RETIRE CHIPPER – Glad it is overwith and I hope someone takes a knife to this hapless Braves Roster and gets rid of some SLACKERS!!!!! Lowe first, Heyward second, Fredi and Parrish next in the order of boot out the door!

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Jeff, you are to kind to this team. I spent way too much money going to games this year. If there are not drastic changes, I will not be back next year. Same ol same ol is not working for me.

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The Braves have never asserted themselves as a consistant team that is always in the hunt. The early days give you a look at what we have today. Luman Harris takes a team to the playoffs in ‘69 and gets swept by a Mets team that got lucky. Bobby Cox came in got fired when he couldn’t break the same lack of enthusiasum from the previous years of just fielding a team of players behind Hank Aaron to break a record. After he was gone they just lived off Aaron’s legacy with sub-par talent. Torre came in and showed them how to win but that died a quick death and he was fired. After a fool hardy hiring of the Braves AAA manger went south Chuck Tanner came in. He got us some pitching talent through the draft but he got canned. Cox came in as GM but his manager Norm Nixon was a bust. Then Cox comes back to the dugout with John Shuerholtz taking the GM. But it still doesn’t get them the rings and I use the plural term. Who knows what it’s going to take. I guess it’s one of those things that comes from that special manger that knows how to shake this franchise up.

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Hudson? You cant be serious!

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Kathleen go back in the kitchen.

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Kathleen,

This is a gentleman’s forum.

Please bring me a cup of coffee and a danish.

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Does it matter who manages this team???

The Braves are losers: I call it the curse of Jim Leyritz ’cause since his HR in ‘96 the Braves have played like losers in @ crunch time…

& the curse goes on.

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Fredi wore out his bullpen, just like Bobby did last year. How many times can you go to the well with O’Flaherty, Venters and Kimbrel? That’s my only criticism of him as a manager. Everything else was on the team. Simply couldn’t hit w/ RISP. Either a HR or nada. Sorry, but this was just another typical Braves el foldo when it counted most. It’s part of their fabric. Just ask Chipper.

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Feelings today tied to a classic song……….” I feel like I’m tied to the whippin post “

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I want to thank the Phillies for ending this slow torture. Injuries or not,this team lacks the mental/emotion toughness needed to succeed. I love baseball, but I can’t help but feel that I have wasted my time watching this team all season. Thank God it’s football season, and I may have to take a break from this squad next year.

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Something must be done in response to this but nothing will be done. The attitude is the holdover from the Cox/Scherholz years in which, after playoff collapses due to poor managerial decisions and poor performance, we were repeatedly lectured by JS, and occassionally Chipper, that we ought to just shut up and be thankful for the year. I recall years ago after one of the playoff losses Chipper made a comment like, it was a good year, we put buts in the seats, etc. A culture of acceptance is a great way to put it. Fredi made some bad bad decisions in September and last night that killed us, and clearly did not demand enough of his players because he is a Cox clone, and that’s just what Cox did. People love to play here because not much is asked of them by the organization, which blames the fans just as soon as they dare to express anger over things like pitching to Hunter Pence with a base open and presiding over one of the worst collapses in MLB history.

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@Bibbs….I wonder why that is? (sarcasm). I think you know why.

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I grew up with the Braves via TBS so I consider myself family…traditionally family can and should be more critical of its members. Your column has merit…the collapse was definitely a team effort…but as JFK said, success has many fathers but failure only one.

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The only thing Freddie needs to do is get some of Bobby’s fire in his belly. How long do you think Bobby would have lasted last night with the sorry calls that were made at 3rd on Borne and the strike 3 call on Mac and the non calls and the obvious squeeze the ump put on our closer. It was sickening watching the umpire minipulate the game and Freddie sitting and doing nothing. The players need to know he has their back and I think it might lite a fire if he showed this passion.

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The Phillies may have shot themselves thoough, did they REALLY want the red hot Cards in the playoffs?

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It falls on everyone that had an at bat in September. The team fell apart, the manger didn’t do enough to halt it from happening. Sure, Lowe stunk it up but honestly, rookie or accomplished vet, it’s all monday morning quarterbacking. They failed, it rest on the managers resume. The players didn’t perform. I would say they need to go find a very good hitting coach.

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Yeah, right. Because Fredi is a “light’s out” closer who blew two saves in September; one in a “must win game”. Because have you seen Fredi’s batting avergae with RISP? It’s like the stock market, Schultz; are you a Warren Buffet (buy and hold, look for dividends; or a speculator and short seller). OF COURSE the buck stops with the manager; and starting Lowe the other night was certainly his call, but even the most sound manager in terms of tactics and strategy is beholden to the execution or inability to execute, of the team. You ham and egg armchair analysts amuse me. Not because what you write is not true, but because regurgitating trite baseball axioms is far less challenging than managing a major league baseball team.

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It’s more than personality—Gonzalez made bad decisions all year. The final Lowe start was only the last of them. One in particular, from several weeks ago stands out in my mind. I believe it was another among the seemingly endless 1-run games this year, bottom of the 6th at home, Braves down with runners on base WITH LESS THAN TWO OUTS and Gonzalez didn’t hit for Hudson. He later said something about wanting to rest the bullpen (and the Braves did end up winning that one despite themselves as I recall), but the point is, you play to win TODAY. Figure out tomorrow win it gets here. As the Braves just painfully learned, you don’t take that approach, you find yourself headed home.

And situational hitting by this team is atrocious, and has been for at least 3 years. It’s becoming a revolving door but it’s probably time to try something else.

The whole situation unfortunately reminds me of the one up in Athens—you’ve got someone in over his head, any objective observer can see it, but everyone likes the person in question so much they don’t want to pull the trigger on him. All that does is prolong the inevitable—it’s gone on for 6 years in Athens, who knows how long we’re in for with the Braves?

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Freddi was in over his head. His overuse of Venters and Kimbrell spelled doom back in July. He quite often was unprepared for moves during games involving the bullpen for match-ups; always a step behind.

One example; during this collapse he allowed Minor to bat while trailing by one run with runners on base and two outs; then pulled him after facing 1 batter the next inning. Total moronic move (of which he had several).

As a Cardinal fan, I hope he stays in Atlanta a long time!!

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Bobby Cox can take the team back to the top—bring back bobby with a new contract!

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SCULTZIE:
DON’T BE SO QUICK TO PLACE THE BLAME ON THE MANAGER…HE DOESN’T PITCH, PLAY THE FIELD, OR HIT….HE HAS DONE A RESPECTABLE JOB WITH A TEAM WHO LOST ALL THEIR PITCHERS EXCEPT HUDSON TO INJURIES…YOUR NOT GONNA BEAT THE PHILLIES WITH ROOKIE PITCHERS….YOU HAVE DONE THIS WITH COACH RICHT AT GEORGIA….YOU SHOULD GET IN THE ARENA AND TEST YOUR MEDDLE…IT IS EASY TO SIT ON THE SIDES AND CRITICIZE, BECAUSE AFTER ITS ALL OVER EVERYONE’S HINDSIGHT IS 20/20….WAS IT HIS MOTIVATIONAL PROWESS??? WHO NEEDS TO MOTIVATE GUYS WHO ARE MAJOR LEAGUE PLAYERS AND WHAT DO YOU SAY TO MOTIVATE THEM…THOUGHT EVERYBODY PLAYED HARD, AND WITHOUT THE PITCHERS WHO ARE HURT WE COULDN’T WIN A SERIES ANYWAY….PHILLIES ARE THE BEST TEAM IN BASEBALL, WILL THEY WIN IT,I DON’T KNOW….IF THEY DON’T IT WILL BE THE MANAGER’S FAULT, I AM SURE….THE BIGGEST PROBLEM LAST NIGHT WAS WHEN FREDDIE GONZALEZ CAME IN IN THE 9TH INNING AND WALKED THOSE 3 BATTERS…..THE CLOSER WHO HAS BEEN GREAT BLEW THE GAME AND YOU BLAME FREDDIE LIKE HE WALKED THOSE GUYS….COME ON, SCULTZIE…..

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Bring Bobby Cox back!

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no common thread to tie the city into the team, the team into the players, and the fan into the game. Going to a Braves game is as exciting as going to the mall.

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@oldbaldy, awesome song. Very fitting.

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Hate to get personal, but Brian Jordan had it right….Chipper does not have the health/work habits, especially in the off-season, to be able to make it through a full season without a huge drop-off during September. Sitting in a deer stand half the winter while chewing tobacco is not the needed cardio/weight training regimen for a soon-to-be 40-yr old preparing for a 162-game season. And as for Derek Lowe and his propensity for hard drinking….ditto the above for health/work habits!

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Oh, and one more thing. I don’t spend a lot of time listening to “sports talk radio”, but in early September, perhaps even late August, I was listening to Leo M on the Fan and he was somewhat surprised by the comments of a current, well known Brave named Larry “Chipper” Jones, who reportedly confessed that at 9 or 10 games up in the wild card; the Braves could “take it easy” in preparation for the post season. Again, I’ll take Kimbrel as my closer and Chipper as my team leader/respected vet, and I’ll take Uggla through a gut-wrenching Mendoza territory slump, and I’ll take Heyward, etc., AND I’ll take Fredi as my manager. It’s only baseball, folks.

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Fredi Gonzalez and his staff should be fired today. Pitch to Pence with Martinez on deck another of
his major managerial blunders. Start Lowe, bring in Linebrink, it went on and on.
Incidentily, Scott Proctor gave up homer which put Devil Rays in playoffs last night. Should we sign him up for next year?

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The Good:

1. The Braves stole bases! Can you imagine? Even traded to get a guy to do that.
2. Very few pitchers were left in too long. For the most part, if there was no control that day, Fredi pulled him.

The Bad:

1. Streaky hitting. Bubbye, Mr. Parish!
2. No REAL time leader. If Chipper was a true leader, why not make him the team captain?
3. No emotion on the bench. Oh sure, they stood up and high-fived, but in between those moments, the bench resembled an old ladies’ sewing circle.
4. Has anyone seen the REAL Jason Heyward. The guy there now ain’t him!

The Ugly:

1. September.

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I place much of the blame on the inability of Derek Lowe. It seems every game he started, he got behind and could not catch up. Yet, Gonzalez kept starting him. My goodness, can’t he see that if someone who watches from afar on TV see it? Heyward is another situation. Constanza and his speed were so much better.
The most obvious improvement on this team is Bourne. The Braves cannot afford to lose him. Chipper – well here is someone that seems to have great respect from his teammates, yet I see him as half hearted effort at bat and in the field. In my opinion, he is here only for the contract of millions. He should not only be one the bench, but should have left when he was on top. Now he is pathetic. Prado did better at third when he subbed. The rest of the infield is solid IMO. Lots of young arms with promise.
Fredi is a big disappointment, like last night with the call at third when Bourne was clearly safe. I did not have to see the replay to know he was safe, not did the fans in the stands. Yet, here comes Fredi, no fire, no real objection. Cox would have been tossed.
Maybe that is the problem, no fire in Fredi!

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“Hate to get personal, but Brian Jordan had it right….Chipper does not have the health/work habits, especially in the off-season, to be able to make it through a full season without a huge drop-off during September. Sitting in a deer stand half the winter while chewing tobacco is not the needed cardio/weight training regimen for a soon-to-be 40-yr old preparing for a 162-game season. And as for Derek Lowe and his propensity for hard drinking….ditto the above for health/work habits!”

Good Job Brian JORDAN calling out that tobacco chewing CAPTAIN CHOKER..

THIS BUSTER GOT SWEPT IN TWO WORLD SERIES…HAS THE NERVE TO TALK SMACK ABOUT THE ONLY CLUB THAT CAN BEAT PHILLY? WHAT AN IDIOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Sorry for the typos. Should have proof read it!

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I agree that there was just no fire in this team. It was like they could have cared less the last week or two. I blame that on the manager for not lighting a fire. If you watched the cardinals games, players were on the top step cheering and yelling. The braves just sat there defeated.

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Great acticle Jeff. I couldn’t agree with you more.

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This collapse has the feeling of being much worse than simply missing the playoffs for one year. I dare say this could potentially have the same effect on Attendance going forward in Atlanta that the Strike did back in the 90’s to all of Baseball. In Boston, the fans will be back, they know the team will spend oodoodles of money to try and right the ship; plus the fans are diehard. Not so much in Atlanta, the fans here will feel quite jilted, like “fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me”. Is there anyone here that can say a 5 or 10 game lead for a wildcard with a month to play will ever make you feel confident again?

I think the only thing that will be able to save this team is being very proactive in the offseason and make some Yankee-esque or Boston type big moves to show a real seriousness to right the ship. Otherwise the Braves scores will be seen on the news rather than at the stadium by fans next year…

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Basically the mistake is Freddi. Not at all what a good manager needs to be. Seemed to always be behind on whatever trend was develping with his team. Spent to much time waiting for the big inning instead of creating a big inning. Bourn showed in the 1st last night what can be done with speed. Need some more of that. Heyward could provide some of that if he can be taught. I think ther are good players on this team who are not being used correctly. Do you get the feeling when watching the Braves that you are constantly waiting for something to happen. I believe that some of the players feel that way too. Watch the Phillies, Diamondbacks etc.., they are in the game, not waiting for the homerun hero to arrive. While Chipper is a great talent I will be glad when his style era is past. Maybe he will be too. Dump Freddi, get a manager who believes in complete baseball and uses it to pressure the opponent for nine complete innings.

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Dozer

September 29th, 2011
9:30 am
There is a culture of acceptance that reeks thru this franchise. everyone is up in arms now, but after a couple of weeks everything will revert back to the way its always been – media included. there’s never any real pressure to perform with this franchise.

Co-sign!

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I think Chipper looks really old, especially last night! He is selfish to come back for another year! He eats up way too much payroll that prevents us from going out & signing other young & more talented players! Can we find a team dumb enough to take Derek Lowe & his $15M salary off our hands? Just sayin!

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FG needs to go. I quit watching the games when I saw the stupidity. The one thing that got me was replacing our great hitting All Star second baseman with a player who only cared about home runs. It took most of the season for him to break out of his SLUMP.

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I’m so glad that Gonzalez is our manager and not Ozzie Guillen or Joe Maddon. I love sitting back and waiting on the home run.

Everything’s fine. Everything’s fine.

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I co-sign that 9:30 post too. Well said!

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Get FREDI AND CAPTAIN CHOKER OUTTA TOWN THE BUSTERS!!!!!!!!!!!

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It was a bitter pill to swallow, but let’s not get too hasty. There were a number of factors that contributed to this collapse, and they were NOT all the Braves’ fault.

1) They lost BOTH their #1 AND #2 starters in Jurggens and Hanson. Minor showed flashes of brilliance, as did Delgado, but if Jurggens and Hanson pitch in September, the Braves would have clinched two weeks ago.

2) The Cardinals had a MUCH easier schedule than the Braves. They got to play 45 games against the Astros, the Pirates and the Cubs, while the Braves got to play 54 games against the Marlins, the Nationals and the Mets. While the Mets are not that good, BOTH the Nationals and the Marlins are good, young clubs with a solid foundation of position players and good pitching.

This is no great revelation. Jim Powell, the Braves’ radio announcer, pointed this situation out back in late August and PREDICTED that either the Reds or the Cardinals would take advantage of that weak schedule to catch the Braves in September, and THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED!

The Braves as an organization need to work to get MLB to institute a balanced schedule so that the Central (and, to a lesser extent, the West) Divisions do not get a weak schedule that allows them to back their way into the playoffs.

3) McCann got injured (oblique strain). When he returned, he simply was NOT the same hitter as he was before the injury. Also, as in past years, he got worn down catching every day. The solution to that is to do with Hudson and David Ross what Bobby Cox did with Greg Maddux and whoever was the backup catcher during the 14 season run: Ross becomes Hudson’s personal catcher, guaranteeing McCann every fifth start OFF.

Now let’s look at the GOOD things from this season:

1) We should have a perennial All-Star at first base. Freddie Freeman did everything the Braves asked of him, and more. 20+ home runs, almost a .300 batting average, Gold Glove fielding. The Braves should sign him to a long-term contract similar to what they gave McCann and lock him in as the first baseman for the next ten years.

2) Uggla delivered. It would have been nice if he hit better than .240, but 36 home runs is a career high, and he nearly won the game for the Braves last night.

3) Except for Lowe, the pitching is set for a great five-year run. Next year, it will be Hudson, Jurrgens, Hanson, Beachy and Minor, with Medlen standing ready to step in as needed. The bullpen will be Kimbrel, Venters, O’Flarerty, Varvaro, Viscaino, Moylan (assuming he recovers from his surgery), and Teheran, with Martinez and Gearrin waiting in the minors as needed. Wren should try REAL HARD to get someone to take Lowe off the Braves’ hands. While I recognize that Lowe was the reason the Braves made the playoffs in 2010, he clearly is NOT the same pitcher. If Wren cannot trade him, then, in spring training, Lowe will have to EARN their way onto the team, and, if he does not show any improvement, the Braves will need to release him and cut their losses.

There ARE problems. Go to the Braves Team website for ESPN, link below:

http://espn.go.com/mlb/team/_/name/atl/atlanta-braves

22nd in RUNS
26th in BATTING AVERAGE
26th in ON-BASE PERCENTAGE
21st in SLUGGING PERCENTAGE

My God, no wonder the relief pitching got worn down. The pitching was the ONLY THING that was winning the games for the Braves. They need to get another hitter, preferably in left field. While I love Matt Diaz, he is NOT a starter. The ideal would be to sign Jose Reyes and make Gonzalez the backup shortstop, but I doubt the Braves can spend that kind of money.

I believe the Braves have already begun the transition from being a team that relies on the 3-run home run to one that wants to rely on speed and small ball. They will need to sign Michael Bourn to a long-term contract, and get that extra hitter in the lineup, but they should be okay next year IF:
- Chipper comes back and provides the leadership that is needed.
- Freddie learns to use the ENTIRE bullpen and not just the big three in the 7th, 8th and 9th inning.
- Jason Heyward re-learns the plate discipline and swing he had as a rookie.
- Uggla plays the ENTIRE season like he played in July and August.

Just my humble opinion…

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a high school coach wouldn’t have pitched to Pence in that situation, it was beyond the realm that he allowed that to happen. the guy on deck is a .190 hitter.

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for the love of all that is good, just fire him. Give us a sign, upper management, that you’re serious about winning.

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All the experts are saying that this is LaRussa’s finest coaching job. Say what?!?! They were handed the wild card on a silver freaking platter and didn’t even say thank you to the Braves that gave it to them. They played well in September, but they weren’t exactly lights out. The Braves won 9 games the entire month of September. 9! LaRussa is the most overrated manager in baseball. He gets all the credit for something that was giftwrapped for his team.

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What happened to the leader of the team?Listening to Chipper talk from the side of his mouth lastnight he said “maybe I should have gone over and talked to the pitcher to calm him down”.WHY DIDN’T HE? Maybe Sunny Clusters was right he had deer on the brain and just could’nt think of nothing else.If these players can’t mentally stand at the plate and hit the ball they need to move on and give somebody else a chance..You make to July and all of a sudden nobody can hit consistently. PITIFUL!!!!

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Honestly, haven’t watched alot of the braves this year. Last nite, when I saw the line up posted, along with the batting averages….it said it all. then they proceeded to show why their respective averages were so low….like the balls around their ankles they swung at. And the walks….poor base running with no outs (trying to steal third!)….
this team needs some real fire in their bellies.

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Hurt Pitching to blame? Pitchers don’t score runs. Coaching to blame? You said that the previous years and you changed the staff. The players are to blame! They simple do not know how to hit. Everyone of them refuse to choke up and go the other way with 2 strikes, swing to the opposite field to move a guy over. It’s time to get a true line-up. Chipper is done, 14 million is too much for an every other day player. If he comes back, Prado can ride the pine while Chipper is in there. We need an upgrade in RF, LF, and SS. I repeat we have enough sub .200 hitters.

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Easy there….The Braves looked tired, and they had some injury problems…but how about that Jason Heyward, Freddy Freeman, Johnny Venters, and Craig Kimbrel….Sure, they didn’t make the playoffs, but they were a real pleasure to watch this year….Guess I’m pulling for the Diamondbacks and Devil Rays…..It would be the “Animal Planet” World Series……

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Chipper is probably happy right now. He gets his $14 million and gets to go deer huntin’ now at his TX ranch.

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So long Fredi! As you’ve said all year “it is what it is”.

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Chipper 0-5…that says it all!

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All they had to do was play .500 ball and make to the show and they couldnt do that! This off season, management must make some serious personnel moves. The mental toughness is not there and it showed.

And last night, the errors, mental mistakes and leaving runners on base continued with this team. Cant sit here and say, “well, we lost starting pitching” these guys just plain choked!

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Count me as a big Chipper Jones fan, but this team went downhill immediately after Chipper ran his mouth about being the only team that could beat the Phillies in the postseason. He should’ve kept his mouth shut, because that idiotic statement marked the beginning of this monumental collapse.

Schultz- you are spot on with this article. Fredi needs to re-evaluate everything about the team, coaching staff, and most importantly himself.

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very unfortunate, my concern is more toward the people who spend their lives trying to be first commenter. get a life
the braves wouldn’t get past the first playoff anyway

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Clearly, Fredi Gonzalez should be fired. But the fault goes to the team, specially the veterans like Chipper and McCann. They didn’t seem to play at their level and that carry-on to the rest of the team. In the case of Heyward, he should have been demoted to AA or AAA in mid-july, so he can regain his swing in a less pressured enviroment, but they elected to keep him in the big leagues in a part time roll.

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he should be fired, taking snitker and parrish with him. fired for taking constanza out of the lineup. fired for pitching to Carlos Gonzales instead of walking him and pitching to Ty effing Wiggington. He should be fired for not going a little deeper into games and giving his pen a break… this team never won many games by more than 1 or 2 runs. A little more from the startes would have spared the wear on O’Flahery, Venters, Kimbrel. He should be fired for hiring Larry Parrish. All the Braves–ALL of them except Chipper who’s a Hall of Famer and goes to his father for hitting advice, hit worse this year than last.

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Off season to dos – Trade Jurrjjens while his stock is kind of high and dump Lowe. Find another hitting coach and move Pendleton to the minors in case he is interfering with the hitting coach and messing the players up. Bring up Hicks or sign another good 3rd baseman to fill in for the often injured Chipper who will probably retire before spring training is over due to injuries. Brink up Pastornicky to platoon with Gonzo until he figures it out.

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nice choke. glad football is here. this city has one winning football team

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The hitters were the worse on a big league team I have ever seen. The bats have to swing not set on the should. They acted like they were scared to hit it

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With all due respect Abnerish, giftwrapped is also what I would call a 8.5 game lead for the wild-card with only a month to go. Sometimes being a good manager is taking advantage of what opportunities present themselves. We sure didn’t hold on to that gift, they did

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My biggest problems last night was the fact that Craig Kimbrel did not go win the game. MAKE THEM BEAT YOU!!! You have a 99 mph fast ball and a killer sinker, so make them beat you. Don’t walk them and give them the game. Force them to hit your fast ball and take the game from you. I see this as a huge problem, because the Braves should have easily won this game, but they just gave it away.

My second issue was Dan Uggla playing at double play depth and location with two outs, making it very difficult for him to get to Hunter Pence’s squibber. If he was playing a normal second base, then he is on top of that and crisis averted. They must know something I don’t, but to let a run score in a big game like this that holds your entire season in jeopardy is crazy to me.

Obviously I am as mad as the rest of the fan base, because this was a lackluster performance the last month, and we folded like a house of cards. This is exactly why Atlanta will never be as big as a sports town as say New York, LA, or Boston, because we can never win the big one in football, basketball, baseball, or college football (University of Georgia included). Yeah Yeah we would have performed better with our best pitchers not being on the DL, but you know what, that’s baseball and that’s sports in general, things happen, and a team can’t hang on one or two guys. Atlanta franchises need to suck it up, spend the money, or draft the players it needs to win, and not continue to fold in the face of competition.

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Good article, Jeff.

The collapses of Heyward and Prado during the season, and McCann at the end were huge.

Chipper should retire. He is a drain on the team. Constantly injured, constantly blocking the acquisition and/or development of a new 3rd baseman. I doubt Prado is the real answer for 3rd.

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Jeff, this is not a Gonzales thing. They almost blew it last year as well with a losing September record. They went from 3 games up in the division to finishing 6 games back of Philly and hanging on to the wild card on the last day. This team has forgotten how to hit, and it started last year. They also can’t stay healthy. Prado, McCann, and Jones are in and out of the lineup and have had very inconsistent years over the last two. Hanson and Jair havent pitched since August. Their first half production was sorely missed in the second half.

Face it, Jeff. This team isn’t as good as people think. The pitching is there thanks to outstanding young arms from the minors, but the everyday lineup has automatic outs all through it like swiss cheese. Heyward has disappeared, Gonzales/Wilson at SS hasn’t been any better, and the others take turns going ice cold. It was Uggla in the first half, now its been Prado and McCann down the stretch. CF was an auto out before Bourn got here. Bourn and Freeman are the only consistent hitters in the lineup.

1) The Braves need a better hitting coach. This lineup should produce better.

2) They need to get into the Prince Fielder sweepstakes and land him. Pretend Lowe’s contract doesn’t exist for one year. That’s all it would take…just pretend for one year. Chipper probably won’t be high dollar for more than that either. The ownership needs to do something. Counting on rookies for everything isnt getting the job done.

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agree 100% Gonzalez is a big culprit. couple him with Wren, Parrish and a disintersted owner, and you have a bad cocktail. this nix is lethal.
can’t fire 25 players , so mgr has to go. I didn’t like Cox as much as most, but I doubt this implosion would have happened with him around.
Dozer is also right- this is acceptable in this sports town. in a short time, everyone will be fine. no urgency to win. they won their 14 division titles and that is it for the next few decades.

By the way, any Astros fans- you showed why you have the #1 overall pick in next years’ draft. getting outscored 18-1 after 3rd inning of 2nd game is disgraceful. didn’t even compete. I knew they couldn’t win more than 1 , but that is absurd. If I were Shafer I wouln’t be so happy to be with that bunch. I doubt Oberholzer and Clemens will resurrect them by themselves.

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I think it sux that the Braves missed the playoffs. What I think sux more is a hack, writing for the hometown paper, shoveling dirt on the Braves yesterday when they were tied for the wildcard. Bottom line is we were a lot better off than 2/3 of MLB teams – we were playing a meaningful game on the last day of the season.

I am and remain a lifelong Braves fan.

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Hitting. That has been the G.D. problem for the past 20 years. Thank God we have 9 starters, doesn’t matter that we have a f..g AAA lineup, we have nine starters!

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The biggest indictment of Fredi is that, after being part of a team for five months, he could not figure out what pieces to put together during September to play better than .333 ball. Could he not see the consistently slowing bat speed of Prado and McCann? Constanza could never have been a one-man show, but after showcasing Constanza at #9 and Bourn at leadoff and finding that it worked, he inexplicably quit using that combo. Does he not comprehend a double switch? At least twice this year, Cristhian Martinez pitched multiple innings of great relief, so why pull him into the “do or die” game only to pinch hit for him so quickly and call on LineBrinkofdisaster?

True, this team hit so badly that it reminded me of the old joke about the guy who struck out, threw his bat at the ground, and missed, but the 1969 Mets weren’t exactly an offensive powerhouse, either, yet Al Weis, Rod Gaspar, and a bunch of low-production guys managed to pull off the upset. Given the proper leadership, I think our band of .240 hitters could have played .450 ball in September, at least.

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Back during OUR run during the 90s, ol’Smotlzie, Glavin, and Maddog…wait a minute…I forget how irrelevant my analysis and commentary actually are. I’m going back to the land of rose-tinted glasses to pray at the alter of Bobby Cox and re-live the good ol’ days.

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The Braves needed a firey, kick you in the pants manager. Instead they got a Bobby Cox Clone. The team mostly underachieved under Bobby Cox, and it will be more of the same under this guy.

Until these people know there is accountability for epic fails such as this, we have more of the same coming Brave’s fans. It’s going to take new ownership to change this culture.

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It’s not Fredi’s job to “hold a bat”, but it is his job to make the players better…but having said that, d there is something fundamentally wrong with the Braves organization that seems to make players worse. DLowe was an outstanding pitcher before he got here, McLouth was an all-start CF before he got here, Uggla was an all-star 2B before he got here, I believe Gonzo was an all-star SS before he got here….Frenchy started well but dropped to a .240 RF and was run out of town…a couple of years later he’s hitting .285 and had a 20/20 season…and there is no leadership, I mean Chipper calling out someone for not playing hurt ? And what team pays $15 for a partime .270 hitting 3B ?

Sure, Fredi made several understandable mistakes (sticking with DLowe, Chipper, Heyward way too long) but he remember under his watch the Braves have the two leading Rooking of Year candidates (although with Kimbro’s Septermber I’m thinking Freeman will end up with the award), but the problems of the Braves are cultural and institutional in nature and need to be addressed from that perspective. Remember, the Braves aren’t built for winning championships, but rather for the purpose of providing programming content for the Liberty Media congolmerate….and until that corporate objective changes, this is what the Braves will contnue to be.

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How did we miss out on Kirk Gibson?

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Now Jeff Schultz, you pushed for the Gonzalez hire harder than anyone last Summer (even before Bobby was out the door)… This franchise was in need a deep push from a outside voice clear of the Schuerholz and Cox influence… This ship has sunk, now next season, get the survivors out of the water… Please for Heaven sake, get Kimbrel, Heyward, and some of those youngsters some “real veteran” leadership mentors in that clubhouse. No more of Chipper Jones in their ear, no more influencing them with his horrid and non-helpful advice and criticism. Fredi needs to get a real third base coach and really find a hitting coach… Larry Parrish can teach hitters, it is just going to happen in Atlanta. As soon as Arizona’s season is over, I’d call Don Baylor…

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Well said Jeff. I think Freddy looked scared and the rest of the team was infected. I believe, as they say, that they were playing hard, but trying hard doesn’t get it done when you are expecting something bad to happen and hoping a win will fall into your lap. My biggest issue with Freddy’s poor performance from the bench was in not bunting runners into scoring position. I can point to no less than 10 instances of this (including tonight with BMac up, 0 outs, runners on first and seccond) through the last month that would have almost certainly turned this team around. He seemed to have no grasp of the big MO and that cost them what could have been a great season.

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Bobby MUST be still back there in the tunnel managing! Nothing has changed! Waste good starts with a faulty bullpen (only when it matters), crazy lineups that make no sense, and playing players for sentimental reasons (Chipper, Heyward) who hurt the team while keeping hitters (Constanza, Diaz) on the bench! Nothing has changed!

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If not all through the season, it certainly became obvious in Sept. that Lowe didn’t have it and wasn’t going to get the job done. I’m not going to blame Gonzalez for players not hitting or pitching, but he is to blame for not going with the younger arms ( Teheran, Delgado ) in place of Lowe when a change obviously needed to be made.

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Yeah, it really annoyed how bad Gonzalez pitched yesterday and how low his average was down the stretch.

A baseball manager is there to keep his team focused and prevent in-fighting. The rest is up to the players. This ain’t football. Gonzo cannot make Lowe pitch well or wake up Heyward’s bat.

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“it is just “not” going to happen in Atlanta.”

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Don’t forget. We were without our 1 and 2 (All Star caliber at one point) starters for pretty much all of August and September. It’s obvious both guys were pitching hurt after the All Star break. Say what you will, but if the Phils lose Halladay and Lee or the Cards lose Carpenter and Lohse, they are going to struggle mightily. When you lose your 1 and 2 starters, you can’t just make that up with rookies who’ve never pitched at this level or this long into a season. T

That led to the bullpen implosion from being overworked. If there was any mismanagement, look to how Fredi used the bullpen. He could have used Vavaro and Vizcaino more than he did. And dont forget me lost Moylan and never got back Medlen. It was a domino effect that no one could fix.

Granted, the offense disappeared when we needed it most. And maybe that is on Gonzalez. But don’t forget about losing our #1 and #2 pitchers. That’s huge and almost insurmountable in and of itself.

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I have been a brave fan for over 40 years and they have always been chokers. Even during the 90s with all that pitching they could never win the big one. Look back to the 96 world series with the Yanks. They were by far the best team and should had won the series but choked. I am surprised that they won in 95. I love the Braves and always will but they need the get rid of most the players and start over or hit the free agency. This is how the Phillies got where they are at. Spend money or get out of the bussiness.

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The reason for the Braves collapse are many:

1. Derek Lowe- just plain awful. A veteran, $15 million a year pitcher who pitches batting practice. When Hanson and Jurrjens go on the DL, he HAS to step up, nope he gets worse. Should volunteer to take a $ 7 million pay cut next year so the team can buy some more talent.

2. Jason Heyward- terrible year from beginning to end. Played with no hustle, no enthusiasm, no hunger. A 20-24 year old play should have fire in the belly. Like most of the Braves, way overswings trying to hit tape measure homers.

3. Martin Prado- this guy has the talent to be a .300 hitter every year but hit only .260. Get the feeling he is trying to hit homers instead of stroking doubles to the gaps.

4. Dan Uggla- the guy is so strong, he does not need to try to hit homers, just get the bat on the ball and it flies out of the yard. Yet spent the first half of the season over swinging.

5. Fredi Gonzalez- just didn’t do any creative things to manufacture runs. Team really went on fire with the double threat of Bourn and Constanza creating havoc on the basepaths. Gave up on Constanza too soon. Let him work his way out of a slump. Overused Venters and Kimbrel. Everyone on the planet knew they would run out of gas.

6. Alex Gonzalez- only got hot at the end of the year before he got hurt. Otherwise, a terrible hitter, who again tries to overswing rather than putting the bat on the ball.

7. Frank Wren- should have made a move for another bullpen arm when he saw the wear and tear on Venters and Kimbrel by the trade deadline.

8. Chipper Jones- admire his grit. But when you are hurt, you need to know when to let your manager know you just can’t go. One of my favorite players of all time but I really wish he’d retire to free up another $ 15 million to buy some depth and talent.

9. Ownership- Braves need an owner willing to spend money. You can’t keep battling the Phillies when they have a payroll of $161 million and you have a payroll of $87 million. That is a huge talent gap. Even a payroll around $100 million would make a huge difference.

10. Jair Jurrjens- please trade him.

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Is it sad that, as a Sox fan, I went on this site just to read about another team collapsing to try and make myself feel better?

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Awesome!

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Fredi is only part of the problem. but mix him with Wren, Parrish and a bad owner and it’s lethal.
nothing much can change though due to limited budget and mismanagement of these funds in the front office.
have to start somewhere and manager is easier to get rid of, so start with him. soon Nats and Mets will pass us also. it won’t be just the Phils we worry about.
but blowing big games is almost a tradition in Atlanta.
when a team stops drafting high school guy mainly to save money, you know it’s trouble.

PS those Astros really competed the last 2 games ! they should get the first 2 picks (not just#1 overall) in the draft for being so bad.

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What most of you all dont realize is that we are, at least, two years away from winning anything. We wont win untill…
1. We get out of Lowe and KKs contracts
2. McCann proves he can be an all star for and entire season, not just the first half. (a ton of blame goes here, he vanished in september)
3. Third and most importantly of all. Chipper Jones retires. We will NOT WIN ANYTHING as long as hes is here,

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Jordan Shafer is not usually a starter on the worst team in all of baseball. Good riddance. Send Conrad to the Astros. The Braves need to start cleaning house. They should just release alot of these players regardless of their contracts

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I thought Joe Sheehan’s comments in SI.com were spot on:
As with the Red Sox, the seeds of the Braves’ last loss were sown a long time ago. The Braves scored seven runs in losing their final five games, and in their last game, Fredi Gonzalez’s errors in player usage — benching Jason Heyward, using Martin Prado in the second spot, failing to use a double-switch to get at least a second inning from the highly effective Cristhian Martinez — all contributed to the loss. Gonzalez struggled all season long to get his best players on the field, while riding the three relievers he trusted into the ground. For the second straight season, the Braves had a championship-caliber pitching staff and an offense not worthy of it. For the second straight season, the Braves had no path to victory when the pitchers let them down.

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/joe_sheehan/09/29/five-cuts/index.html#ixzz1ZM3vSQ3s

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Amen Brother !!!

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all coments are good opinions; BUT not solutions! So here I go with opinion # some where in the thousands;
No Clutch hitters in sight in braves organization! braves could have passed Phillies in April if they could hit! Several times they had bases loaded and no outs to wind up scoring zero;zip;three outs no runs! sad but true to form of spoiled millioniars going through the motion of playing pro baseball; recon how many players would have hit the road had the TED still owned the braves?

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Enter your comments here

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What was he to do? After years under the mismanagement of Bobby Cox, who never knew when to take a pitcher out, all Freddie had was leftovers. Flush the Bobby Cox years away and start new next year.

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He lives and dies by the home run. Know no other way to score.Last night was the first time he used aggressive tactics on the bases and it was working until Bourn was out at third on the double steal and we spent the rest of the game being timid and afraid. If he can’t do ABC baseball, then he needs to find another job.

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No doubt this should fall on the manager, but it is also a poor reflection on the man who hired him. You can’t blame Freddie without placing blame on the GM also. I think Freddie’s problem was less tactical than it was strategic especially to how he used his pitchers. He relied too much on too few relievers and it caught up with him in the end. Freddie didn’t seem to have the touch that Cox seemed to have with his players. Cox was a master at taking the pressure off his players enabling them to relax and play their game. This was definitely missing.

Wren gets the blame to. Why was Linebrink still in the Braves rotation? Freddie couldn’t rely on any reliever beyond the big three. Delgado and the young arms should have been brought up much earlier to help, or Wren should have found some better arms.

Braves have some big decisions to make especially concerning the pitching. They have too many arms and not enough bats. They need to trade Jurrjens now for a third baseman, and a young shortstop prospect. Jurrjens has turned into a flake with the bruised knee and all. We need some reliable starters who can finish a game every now and then. When is the last time a Brave starter has pitched a complete game?

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Dozer has this 100% correct. I’m sick of the “we’ll get ‘em next year” mentality with sports franchises in this city. Either you’re winners, or you’re losers. Winners fight and scratch for the unlikely, seemingly unreachable goal. They play the best players regardless of who the fans want to see. Winners make the tough calls and never give up; they don’t play scared. That’s what the Cardinals did; they’re winners AND they can beat the Phillies.

The Braves were content to coast into the playoffs. They started the wrong pitchers, which actually goes back to Bobby’s days of always sticking with the veteran no matter what. Heyward is a underachiever; send him back to the minors or trade him. Hire a hitting coach that inspires this team to hit; we haven’t had that in probably a decade. We don’t need to make a lot of changes, but the ones we do need to make are the ones this “same ole same ole” franchise is too afraid to make. We have this hodgepodge of batters with no singular strategy, which means we don’t produce enough runs. Anyone who holds to the ideas of the past just keeps this franchise two steps behind the Phillies.

Frank Wren – Grow a pair and make the tough decisions. Pull some strings.
Fredi – I like you, but you need more gusto! Don’t be afraid to kick some butt out there.

UGA Fans – Stop searching out scapegoats for Mark Richt. Our team has consistently underperformed with the talent we have. Talent that goes on to the NFL as has major success! We have discipline issues on and off the field, and rarely do we outcoach the other team. We beat Ole Miss because our PLAYERS are better athletes. Nutt clearly outcoached Mark and kept them in the game. It was Willie Martinez. You got him fired. Now it’s Bobo, or it’s Murray making bad decisions, or it’s the refs, or it’s Grantham. Wake up, else you’ll be losers just like the braves.

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Jeff Schultz, how many MLB games have you managed? Zero!
That’s right, zero so SHUT UP!!!
One person does not doom a team. Fence the word TEAM!!
You’re so arrogant! It’s easy to sit and judge from your position. Maybe you should try it from the dugout. Oh wait; you’re merely a columnist. Quite honestly, I tired of you HATING our Atlanta Braves… Maybe you could try to give a little supporting to the Braves instead of trying to tear them down.

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Heyward is the next Franceour…they really want him to be great, but it isn’t to be. No hustle on the play last night, let runner get to 3rd that may not have made it if he had moved his butt a little.
Also, I agree with new blood needed in manager position. When Marlins dropped to the cellar this year after a great start, changes were made immediately…will never happen in Atlanta though…so we will all just keep plugging along and wishing for more for the foreseeable future….

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Best article of the season.

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Andy,

I think there is a conspiracy here. The Yanks blowing a 7-0 lead? That had to be a mafia job or someone political was involved..LOL!

But seriously, i think that Yanks blew that one out of spite so that the Sox wouldnt have any chance to get in, and a second reason:

Dan Johnson batting .108 down to 2 strikes in the 9th and he hits one out? Hmmmmm…..

Love my Braves and Sox, so it was extra tough watching last night for me. Dont think i will watch any post-season ball. Atleast you got the Patriots, as for me, well and the rest of us Atlanta fans, we have to wait for the Falcons to get plucked and WE all know thats coming!

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I’d like to see the Braves work on improving depth in the off-season and not have to rely on the A-Team to win every time out. It’s a big drop off when the regulars are injured or ineffective – (except for Ross).

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Bobby Cox remained loyal to players, seemingly to a fault. It seemed refreshing at the time when Fredi Gonzalez came in and shook up the lineup – breaking Chipper’s stronghold on the 3 spot, benching Heyward for Constanza, etc. Those were short-term fixes that felt good. But it may have undermined the players’ confidence as to where they stood with their manager. Chipper used to battle through slumps under Bobby knowing the 3 spot would remain his. But under Fredi, players had to fear that if they slumped they might lose their place in the order, making them play tighter rather than looser. Bobby’s patient method may have seemed stubborn at the time, but it usually worked.

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They change the lineup and the batting order.

The constant swapping of the lineup order and benching one guy for slumping while sticking with dan uggla thru the mendoza months (and others who were slumping and had viable replacements). And pulling starters too early or too late and overtaxing certain guys in the pen. Hopefully he will learn from these mistakes and remember them next season because he certainly won’t be fired.

Larry Parrish, however….

Best advice for the braves: watch Phillies tapes, watch tapes of almost ANY OTHER TEAM and learn patience at the plate on your own.

Last year’s far less talented team won several of their 91 games BECAUSE of their manager. The 2011 braves won many of their 89 games in spite of THEIR manager.

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Offseason To-Do List:

-Find a new batting coach/Reinstate TP
-Evaluate Prado/Is he a full time player at this point?
-Add at least one more power arm for the pen
-Trade JJ and/or Lowe (for who I don’t know)
-Find a Short Stop/Is Pastornicky ready?
-Get Heyward in touch with a former hitting coach from his days of having success

(Wishful Thinking)
-Fire Fredi Gonzalez

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I’m just dumbfounded by the team’s season long inability to move runners over. Way too often, a leadoff double leads to a runner still at second three outs later. The execution in the first inning was perfect, …and jaw dropping because it happened so seldom. Even pitchers can bunt. Someone, coach , manager, or whivere, should have their tails kicked for not making the team do fundamenal things that would get a Little leaguer chewed out.

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i WOULD HAVE STARTED ROSS IN LIEU OF MCCANN AS HE WAS PRESSING AND NOT HITTING THE BALL. PRADO WOULD HAVE BEEN AT MCDONALDS GETTING THE TEAM SOME HAPPY MEALS.

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Thank God you typed that in ALL CAPS, DERWOOD.

I almost missed it.

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Well at least we don’t have to suffer though the embarrassment of losing in the post season like we do every time we seem to get there. Thanks Braves for not getting our hopes up just to lose it anyway in post season play.

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I followed these losers all summer for this! Pathetic,,, it all started when chipper started running his mouth about how we didnt need to worry about catching the Philly cause we could beat them in the playoffs,,’PLAYOFFS,,,, BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

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Fire Liberty Media! Until we get new owners we will continue to be a second tier franchise.

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@Bulldog – it actually did happen on Cox’s watch last year. They were 3 games up in first to start September, and flopped their way down the stretch. They ended up 6 games back of the Phillies and winning the wild card on day 162 thanks to a SD loss.

This team has too many holes they are trying to plug with rookies. They need better hitting and some better veteran presences in the lineup. Jones is not his former self, and Gonzales was not any better than Heyward. They need better veterans and producers around these young guys. They need a veteran in the bullpen and a couple in the lineup to shake these young guys up and show them how to win. Not some worn out old 90s, early 2000’s stories from Chipper, Gonzo, and Lowe.

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Fire. Gonzalez. Today.

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What Deb ’sed’ about Heyward is right…hell, it was the catcher running from first to third…he even stopped at second then started again and still made it without a throw because Heyward was lolly-gagging to the ball. They better issue this kid an ultimatum about the off season – get down to Winter ball and change your approach – to everything – or your gonna find yourself the ‘punch line’ of the biggest joke since…hell, I can’t even think of one that big.

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The team needed to win ONE more game. The team was playing at a “best in baseball” level from May through August. The team fell completely apart, completely, in September, and that is cause for great concern and commitment to a new direction.

The reasons for the crash are painfully obvious, and many: key pitchers blew up, key everyday players succumbed to age and nagging injury, the hurricane break and the big lead in the wild card race and disinterest in catching the Phillies threw the team into a mental funk, youngsters in key roles struggled down the stretch, the combined pressures exposed an offense very poorly conceived (too many free swingers), imbalanced (too many lefties), and extremely poor in fundamentals, veterans in the bullpen didn’t step up, the trio of kid starters wasn’t ready to step in and go deep in ballgames, and the manager stayed with guys like Lowe far too long. It all came crashing down so suddenly everyone was in disbelief right up until the last few days.

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In extra innings, some fast guy got on for th
BRAVES and he never tried to steal. Think about
it, to scared to try….when A- he might make it, B he might
cause an error and go to third, C he might be out but be
save by a missed ump call. D) if he makes it he ends up
at third and scores easily and Braves win…This is my
friends A MANAGER PROBLEM AND A MANAGER LOSS.

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My plan for fixing the Braves:

Start over with an entirely new coaching staff. The culture has to be changed. We need a fiery guy who can pull out of this team what Kirk Gibson got of the Diamondbacks. How about seeing if Will Clark wants to manage? Just a random name to throw out there.

As far as fixing the roster goes, Wren is going to have to make a hard decision on Jurrjens and/or Hanson. At this point in their careers, they’re starting to resemble Kerry Wood and Mark Prior – talented young pitchers who show flashes of greatness but are never healthy enough to fully take advantage of it. The Cubs waited around for too long hoping that those guys would be able to stay healthy, and eventually both pitchers’ trade value plummeted. Wren needs to act now and move either Jurrjens or Hanson while they still have high value. The smart money says to keep Hanson, who has better pure stuff.

I think Jurrjens plus one of our top young arms (most likely Delgado or Vizcaino; Teheran is untouchable) could net the big bat that we need. Matt Kemp might be too ambitious, but he’d be worth making a big push for.

If Jurrjens is dealt, then you’re most likely looking at a rotation next year of Hudson, Hanson, Beachy, Minor and Teheran, with Medlen starting out in the bullpen and ready to take a rotation spot when someone goes down. That’s still very solid.

I don’t what we do with Lowe. No one will take him, and he’s not going to retire with $15 million sitting on the table. I think you probably just have to cut your losses and banish him to the end of the bullpen.

Speaking of the bullpen, it should be great again, as long as Kimbrel doesn’t have too many emotional scars from his disastrous finish to the season. The depth will be a lot better.

Freeman, Uggla, Chipper, McCann, Bourne and Heyward are all locked into the everyday lineup going into next year. Prado needs to be eased back into a super-utility role. I would re-sign A-Gonz to a one-year deal. As much as his abysmal OBP might drive me crazy, there aren’t many shortstops with either a great bat or a great glove. A guy who has one or the other is worth keeping.

That leaves left field as the most logical spot to get a big bopper in a hypothetical deal involving Jurrjens and a prospect. There’s no reason Wren should not be able to get it done.

The roster, while not perfect, is mostly fine. A lot of guys underachieved inexplicably this year, but there aren’t any gaping holes. That’s what makes this year’s collapse so shocking, and that’s why the coaching staff needs to hit the road.

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Manager, I served with Bobby Cox, I knew Bobby Cox, Bobby Cox was a friend of mine. Manager, you’re no Bobby Cox.

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This ain’t Little League you morons. Big League hitters either hit or they don’t and we didn’t. Plain and simple. Chipper played on 1 leg, Prado played hurt and Heyward had a bad 2nd year. Our ROOKIE closer had a bad outing. Our ROOKIE 1st baseman hit into a game ending double play. Our pitchers went down with injuries and 3 ROOKIES (arguably Minor, Delgado and Beachy) had to step in and compete at the Major League level. Spring Training is in 106 days….

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When the Braves had RISP none of them shortened their swings instead they would hack at garbage…that falls on Parrish, Fredi and the bad fundamentals on the hitters….just brutal

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Thanks for sticking with Lowe and costing Atlanta a post season Bobby Gonzalez.

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Jeff,

I don’t buy that completely. FG is at a disadvantage that he does not have resume of Francona. Again, role of the manager is overrated! How else do you explain Francona, Bochy, Manuels looking so good when they change the teams. At the ML level, there are very few bad managers. This game starts with the team and ends with the team. Tactically, I don’t think he could have done anything different. Okay, you can wonder why he went back to Heyward but I can understand his logic at the time that if we get Heyward started with 10 game lead then that would be awesome. It certainly appeared that his hand was forced in choosing Heyward (and Heyward had decent September). The only thing he could have really done is start Hinske in OF, Ross at catcher few times when both McCann and Hewyard strugglled. One thing is that is forgotten is that our pinch-hitters were really non-existent in the past couple of months. He could have done some more to get them started. Sticking with Lowe was bad but when we also had overworked bullpen issue, starting another rookie would have been difficult. When is the last time team reached and won a play-off game with 4 rookie starters and 1 rookie closer? I bet never.

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Dirty Dawg, I agree with what Deb said about Heywards lack of hustle, but she wasn’t fair to Francouer. Francouer may have had his issues with the bat, but he was the best defensive outfielder we’ve had since Andrew Jones. And you never had to worry about Francouer hustling on a play. I might add that if we had Francouer numbers in left this year instead of Heyward, we would have had a much stronger team.

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This “epic collapse” should be no suprise for this town/state whether its UGA, Braves or Falcons a collapse when it counts is what they do best. I dont blame the Thrashers for leaving for Winnipeg. I say send the rest of the terams to winnapeg and start over.

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Not making excuses for Fredi but…24 last at bat wins. The baseball gods even that stuff out. Very few winds by large margins, thus having to use the big three at far too often. The lack of consistent offense hurt this team. JHey needs help and not from LP; from someone that understands the science of hitting. Chipper is a HOF player and in the twilight of his career we get what we get but we should not depend on him to carry the team game in and game out. DUMP Lowe no matter what and as I have been saying since early in the year, trade JJ, I don’t believe he has ever ptiched 200 innings and remember who is agent is!

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I think FG had comparable season to BC’s last season with the Braves and the BC had one of the finest seasons in past 10 years that most people thought he should have won manager of the year. If Braves had won 1 more game then this column will sound completely different? How can 1 game out of 162 change it, in a rational thinking way?

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They should win, that is.

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Max: Be very careful because I seem to recall multiple Braves teams in the ’90’s that were the most talented in baseball – but only won one World Series! The playoffs are a whole different animal. Talent is great to have don’t misunderstand – but character is just as important.

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Get em next year…..what else is there to say as a fan? We cant control anything from our keyboards. Everyone is frustrated/sad/depressed/angry/plotting to figure our which Starbucks Fredi goes to to give him a piece of your mind. But in reality, you just have to blow it off and look forward to what this team will be able to do next season. I hate the people who get on here trying to be the voice of reason because this is where we go to vent, but this is baseball. This is how it goes. Gotta roll with it, stand by your team and hope for the best for next year.
Changes need to be made starting from the top. I, personally, am writing a letter to Frank Wren.

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Atlanta, always has been and always will be loserville USA.

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One would think with Hanson and Jurrjens in the lineup the Braves would have won one or two more games but lack of clutch hitting was the main reason. In September they lost all four extra inning games and scored a total of 11 runs in their last 7 games losing 6 of them. Hitting is a mess…

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Lowe will NOT be back next year.. We will eat most or all of that 15 Mil

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Look at the Cards — hungry to win and determined to win in every game in September. The Braves lacked that same passion or desire to actually win these last few weeks.

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Atlanta sports teams are the worst. It’s a toss up between the Braves and Falcons as to which is the absolute worse. The Hawks don’t even come into the discussion. They are a bunch of minor league hoodlums.

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It’s one thing to lose an important game or have a bad week or even a bad month but it’s another to “fall from grace” (maybe a little strong but will use the term anyway) as this team did. Not sure how a team recovers from this kind of fall/collapse. If the Braves team that reassembles in late February of next year is the same as the one that slinked out of Turner Field last night then we will know that it is well within their DNA to collapse in the clutch. It was hard enough to watch. I cannot imagine how badly the players and coaches feel. And the poor announcers…what a tough job to night after night have to describe such a collapse.

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Mitchell – It’s true that all sports are cyclical and that what comes around eventually goes around. The Braves will have their glory days again. I know that doesn’t take the sting away from the current situation – but it is true. Thanks for the kind words about the current Phils – and yes – I do think Victorino would have caught Chipper’s ball.

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@ spoon divy-let the Phils hit rock bottom, and they will, and let’s see how many fans will show up at Citizens Bank Park. Don’t say it won’t happen because I remember the Phillies all too well when they sucked and the attendance was down to almost nothing. The Phils have an awesome pitching rotation, much like that of the Braves 90’s rotatation, but these guys can’t pitch for Phillies forever. I live for the day when every single Phillies fan has their heart stomped on, chewed up and spit out because their Phillies have bit the dust. And it will come. Much sooner than you think and when it does, let’s see how well these pathetic Philly fans take it.

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I feel like my girlfriend just broke up with me.

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A disappointing end to the season for sure. Great article that sums it up nicely. Question – is Lowe signed through 2012 or is next year an option year for him?

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Uggla showed up last night as well,,

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Is anyone surprised? How important was this game to the Phillies? So important that, during the extra innings, the Phillies used pitchers who were NOT even on the roster and who had spent the entire year in the minors until September call-ups. Did the Braves take advantage of this? Of course not. They continued to swing a pitches that were balls and that were so far off the plate that they could not have been hit with a broom.

Why did Fredi not have Michael Bourn running when the rookie pitcher, apparently suffering an attack of nerves, having thrown a ball in the dirt to first, was subject to being rattled. Instead, Bourn was kept at first base while three batters futilely swung at pitches. So much for the distuptive effect of Michael Bourn’s speed. Once Kimbrel — who obviously is not the dominant pitcher he was in July — gave up the lead in the ninth inning, one could count on the Phillies, even without Ryan Howard, who was hit by a pitch and taken out as a precaution, scoring, while the Braves continued their hitting drought.

It was like a slow-motion car wreck, and they worst thing is that you had the feeling the you had seen it all before.

Some questions for the Braves. Is Scott Linebrink a bad relief pitcher or just “snake bit”? Somehow, when Linebrink came in (was Fredi’s pitching cupboard really that bare?), you had to think the end was near. What has happened to Jason Heyward? It almost appears that opposing pitchers have discoverd some whole in his swing. What has happened to Martin Prado, who seemed impossible to get out last year until he was hurt, and has never been the same since then? Is Chipper Jones really held together with bailing wire and duct tape? He is the closest thing the Braves have to a power hitter (at least since the collapse of Brian McCann), but he seems to pull a muscle every time he twitches. Is Brian McCann still having trouble with his eyes? Based on his hitting — or lack thereof — he is.

Finally, is Fredi’s “sang froid” (his Bobby Cox impression) helping? He had a “closed door” locker room meeting to tell the team, after a yesterday’s crucial loss (one of many) that he could not think of a group he would rather be with to face a big game. His attitude may work with a soccer team of 11 year olds, but is this the way you motivate grown professionals?

The Braves collapse is hard to believe, except they did something like this last year (but they still made the playoffs on the last day). Embarassing to all involved.

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Chipper Jones is THE curse. His lack of enthusiam is contagious. The rest of the players see this bum getting paid millions for nothing. Can’t hit in CLUTCH situations, just gets a few RBI’s when it doesn’t matter. Mr. CHOKE come crunch time. Retire,PLEEEEEASE RETIRE.

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Personally I think that Freddi and last night’s joke of a homeplate umpire need to go. That guy didn’t see an outside pitch or one over a guys head he didn’t call a strike. And while on that beat let’s trade Lowe for some new towels or whatever we can get.

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steve brown — thank s for your contribution— thats what we all needed was some second guessing

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The season is over and we lost. I would like an article on what changes we might see for next season to make this team better. I think we are OK with the pitching but the offense has to be addressed. Alex Gonzales must go, more production from 3B, and somehow we have to get Heyward and Prado out of their funk.

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Aside from the many in-game tactical mistakes made both in this last game and throughout the season, Gonzales made many strategic mistakes as well, leading to this collapse. Among them:
O’Flarety was the Braves’ best and most experienced reliever and should have been named closer, certainly after Kimbrel began to falter down the stretch (I’m sorry what this does to the young kid’s ego, but blowing these games can’t help his ego either); switching Heyward back for Constanza after Constanza had provided a spark; acquiring and then using (!) Diaz; continuing to play Prado mired in the worst slump of his career; failing to turn Bourn loose on the bases; failing to bunt or squeeze-bunt in situations where runners were on third and less than two outs; overusing Venters and Kimbrel; failing to note the injury to JJ early on and starting him with a 85 mph fastball that other team’s players were commenting on; failing to bring up the young starters early and giving them in-season experience with the major league team; sticking with Lowe. Making any of these changes would have bought another win or two and prevented this debacle. I disagree with the sentiment that says give him more time. I say, Let him go. He has lost credibility with me, with the fan base, and with his players; I don’t see him earning it back.

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@ Dennis, and she calls him Albie!

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The Braves still should of done it with any of your AAA references (Lowe, Constanza, Heyward, Diaz, Wilson, McStink). Look at your neighbors to the south- the Rays are a AAA team that are only in the league to give the Yankees and Sox’s a punching bag…yet what did they do? So, blame the manager, blame the offense, blame the players, blame chopper and mccant for hitting a wall in september, blame the coaches, blame the trainers, blame the doctors, blame yourself, blame the city, blame your fellow atlanta sports fans for not even being able to sell out a game in the thick of a playoff race, blame the media, blame the umps, blame the economy.

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Don’t know if it all falls on Fredi’s shoulders, but being the manager, he will get the blame (or the credit.) Also wish Chipper Jones would just not speak at all after games, given his inane and meaningless comments. ( Like: you can only control what you can control, you have to tip your hat to other team, etc.) Maybe it is time for him to retire.

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At what point do the players get blamed for not making adjustments in their hitting. As much as TP bothered me as hitting coach I feel as though the team had better approaches at the plate. It seemed as we had more walks and hits when it mattered than last year. As far as pitching goes they will learn and get better. Injuries happen to everyone deal with it and move on.

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After a collapse of this magnitude, it’s not a question of who earns what percentage of “blame.” The manager is responsible, period, and this one has to go. If they want to reinvigorate the fan base, the Braves should dismiss the entire coaching staff today. Now.

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Please, just bury the bums & let’s not rehash the season. Maybe Chipper will reconsider during the offseason & retire.

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And when they get married they’re going to invite you to the wedding.

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When you refuse to bunt after the first two hitters get on base then it is directly on the manager. I don’t care who the batter is, you have to manufacture runs when you have a bunch of clutchless hitters. If Chipper Jones can’t bunt then that is the manager’s problem. If it would hurt his feelings to bunt that is a joint problem. Based on his average the bunt was the correct play. Umpiring is another problem as the call at third base was ridiculous and cost the braves a run that would have won the game in regulation. It wasn’t even close. However why in the hell is he stealing third with no outs and two men on base?????

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This writer Schultz captured what I thought………..the team looked scared about something, no fire in their belly, they needed leadership…..most of all the needed a good stiff talking to. In Ireland we say it a litle differently……like a good bollikin’
Too late now……….the nice guys are playing golf today.

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You’re an idiot Jeff Schultz. Fredi can’t bat FOR these guys. I think he did a fine job. Pitching injuries and tired bullpen didn’t help either. Do us all a favor and go back to blowing football picks.

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Im just thankful that the Red Sox did the same thing. Misery loves company.

Im starting to think Im the curse to this team, though. The other day was my birthday. All I asked for was a Braves win, Cards loss, and Fantasy Football win. L’s across the board. Not to mention by second favorite team is the Red Sox. I follow them almost as close as I do the Braves. And I know everything about the Braves, sadly.

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I’m glad you said exactly what I said before Lowe even pitched Mark. I said that Julio Teheran should have pitched instead. As a manager you got to go with the hot hand not a veteran that used to pitch well. Teheran had been almost dominant in his few starts. Lowe had been abysmal all year. Common sense says start Teheran.

Chipper went 0-4 last night, only starter without a hit. He came up in some RISP situations too.

McCann IMO called the wrong pitches a lot in the Phillies series and we all know he hit about .125

Heyward was supposed to be the next Hank Aaron or at least the next Andruw Jones. He wasn’t even the next Michael Tucker…

Fredi went far too long at SS with Alex Gonzalez. There were weeks when Alex went 0-35 and left 50 men on base.

Then the Braves got Matt Diaz & Jack Wilson. These guys should just retire. Diaz couldn’t even hold down the pinch hitters position with the lowly Pirates.

Venters and Kimbrel both have control issues. They both walk way too many hitters.

To summarize, yeah the Braves had injuries (Hanson,Jurrjens,Chipper) but so did the Cardinals. Its is beyond unacceptable to lose series to the Mets,Marlins,and Nationals when your playoff life is on the line. This team just isn’t that much better than the Mets,Nats,& Marlins. They aren’t on the same level with Philly,Arizona,and Milwaukee.

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The braves missed out on the playoffs by 1 game. In rough terms, 10 runs added equals 1 win in the standings. Fredi, through bullpen mismanagement, line up decisions, and other dumb in game decisions cost the team run over the course of the year. The managers job is not to win ball games, thats on the players. A managers job is to manage, which mean put the team in the best situation to win. Fredi failed miserably at this. Players slump all the time, its part of the game. But there is no excuse for a manager to consistently go against what the odds say are the correct moves.

Fredi has to go

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I’m sorry to say it….but I don’t think it’s even close. Fredi Gonzalez should be fired. Period. As an avid baseball fan, and high school player….it blew my mind that it took Gonzalez until the last 2 weeks of the season to actually secure a batting order. I’ve never seen a manager switch around the batting order on a daily basis the way he did in my 25 years of following the Braves. How in the world are hitters supposed to get comfortable at the plate when they have no idea where they might be hitting from day to day? McCann’s slumping…well…just move him to the 6 spot…Chipper not really cutting it? Let’s hit him 5. Uggla needs a boost…hit him 2nd. Freeman is on fire…hit him 3….wait Chipper’s hitting ok again…move him to 3…now hit Freeman 5….let’s move Uggla to 4….what about McCann….well….can’t we hit him 3rd? No, Chipper’s there…well…let’s move him back to 6….and Heyward needs to hit, since he hasn’t done anything all year…so let’s bench one of the only consistent hitters we have (Constanza) and play Heyward for the heck of it…or we can occasionally hit Diaz…what a joke.

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You will never see a healthy Chipper again. His knees are shot. No amount of surgeries can get your knees back to 100%.

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Here’s my take:

Kimbrel overrated. Closers are overrated. He had two things: velocity and wildness. Phillies did what so many other teams have not against Craig…. when the pressue was on they just laid off. And let Kimbrel do what he does: throw junk.

Young bullpen overworked by Fredi. The arms just gave up.

No rotation depth: early in the season a “key” to the postseason was a healthy rotation, and that didn’t happen.

Lowe: The guy is horrible. I can’t believe at 35 we signed him to such a deal. And we are stuck with him next year? I say take away his parking spot, give his picture to Turner Field security, and lock him out. Don’t pay him. If he sues leave it up to an Atlanta jury to decide what he gets.

Chipper: Losing ground balls “in the lights”? Chipper, you are done. Time to retire.

Heyward: Lazy fielding cost us a few games. He’s horrible in right and I don’t see him getting better.

Fredi: Bonehead moves all season long. Put a manager in there who understands what wins games, not all this “gut” decision making.

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Last year the Braves worked counts, were patient at the plate and made the most of the little offense they had. This year players come out swinging wildly and show no plate discipline. That comes from a coaching philosophy. All on Fredi.

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HOW TO FIX THE BRAVES:

1. Go with youth, like Tampa Bay (Medlen, Delgado, Minor, Freeman, etc.)

2. Stop spending gazillions for washed-up journeymen (Lowe)

3. Drop the chop!

4. Clean up the neighborhood surrounding the Ted.

5. Stop charging gazillions for beer and terrible food.

6. Drop the 7th-inning hoedown.

7. Drop the cap shuffle and tool race.

8. Lower ticket prices.

9. Stop allowing corporations to buy all the best seats.

10. Beg Jones and Lowe to retire.

11. Give the stadium announcer something to calm him down.

12. Sign more speed players like Bourn. Teams that play in pitchers’ parks win with speed and defense, not the 3-run homer.

13. Play more A-B-C fundamental baseball. Get ‘em on, get ‘em over, get ‘em in (see #12).

14. Sign players and a manager who are willing to show some life on the field and in the dugout so the fans can relate.

15. Ted, Arthur – ANYONE – please buy the team from Liberty Media!

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So, will the Braves give Lowe the Kawakami Treatment and assign him to Mississippi next year?

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I said it last night as Linebrinke unathletically trotted out to the mound in the 13th…”Were about to get Linebrinked”

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You cannot pinpoint a few performances that lead to the demise. There were too many to list. When an entire squad of professional athletes is struggling, one person is responsible for turning things around. In this case the responsbility lies w/ Fredi. Bottom line, Fredi did not get things turned around and he had plenty of time to do it.

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Hey, dig me up and have my son get my head out of cold storage. I’ll be at spring training and show you guys how its supposed to be done.

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One last thing. I am sick and tired of these whining crybabies with the over worked relief pitching BS. Crap people, how is pitching 150 inning’s for an entire season being over worked? Pitchers back in the day would log in 350 to over 400 innings a year for 20 to 25 years and not use that over worked lame excuse for not getting the job done. Maybe the real problem is that they are not getting enough inning’s. Sure the refief pitching faltered a bit down the streach, but the thing that killed this team was the hitting and the air headed coach that kept throwing Dereck Lowe out there. I will never watch another braves game until they actually make the playoffs. Stated to swear to it, but I won’t go there.

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F.Gozalez should be fired.He seems to have no clue how to manage a ball gm,pnching to Pence was a mistake.I remember he did the same thing in Colorado with C.Gonzalez that cost us the gm.Also Diaz should of never started that gm,it should of been Heyward or Constanza.Heyward would be fine if Cox and chipper telling him to be more agressive at the plate,chipper calling him out about playing through the injury when he doesnt play enough himself.Heyward should go back to what made him sucessful and not listen to anyone.You pp have no clue.

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We hit the ball hard, just right at people.

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The kid pitched well. He just made that one mistake.

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Go Braves! … and take the Falcons with you.

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THERE’S A DRIVE…!

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1.Bourn
2.Chipper
3.Freeman
4.Kemp
5.Mac
6.Uggla
7.Heyward
8.Pastornicky

1.Hudson
2.Hanson
3.Beachy
4.Minor
5.Teheran
-Medlen
-Martinez
-Delgado

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Maybe Gonzalez came in and, consciously or subconsciously, didn’t want to disrupt things too much in the first season after Bobby Cox retired. If so, that backfired.

BINGO! – Fredi is much better than this but didn’t wanna rock the boat. You won’t see the ‘real’ Fredi until Chipper Jones is out the door. Also, it wouldn’t hurt to trade McCann and his 104 stolen bases allowed for a Tex type haul. Oh wait. You mean to tell me he’s only the world’s greatest catcher because he plays for THIS team? No team in their right mind would give much for McCann unless he was going to be a DH.

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Yeah Jeff whats up with you and Wren?

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THANK YOU!!! Can you take over for the DOB section because you report how it really is. I would love to have a manager like Kirk Gibson. Demands you play hard and would not give the ho hum excuses Fredi did last night. He also takes care of himself which Fredi does not. Body language says a lot and look at Fredi… fat and lazy. So is Parrish. Just sits on the bench like the old man he is. I want to see attitude and swagger back on the Braves. Hope it comes sooner than later because I really can’t take much more of this watered down Bobby Ball.

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Give me a 250 clutch hitter over a 300 non-clutch hitter.
For the month of Sept, this team was HORRIBLE leaving RISP !!!

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THERE ARE NO GAMES SCHEDULED IN THE NEXT 14 DAYS

Sucks to see this on Braves homepage.

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One bright spot-Medlen is a bulldog.

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Ozzie’s going to Miami. The Braves better put some swagger back in their step or they wont even have a chance to be disappointed in Sept. next yr. I’m serious the Braves have to make moves soon and not putt around.

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You could have had Sandy Koufax, Bob Gibson, Nolan Ryan, Tom Seaver , in their prime, on this roster and you still can’t score a single dam run with bases loaded, no outs.

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what bothers me most is there is no accountability. In the quotes after the game he has more of a well thats the way it goes attitude. It’s one thing to collapse but when he doesn’t hold himself accountable for the way his team performed down the stretch I have a problem with him. This bothered me earlier in the season and I let it go because you need a positive attitude to get your players to have that same positive attitude. But after $hitting the bed you should admit you did it.

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On July 6th, Jurrjens had 12 wins. He won only one more game the rest of the year. Hanson missed two starts in June, never fully recovered from a partial tear of his rotator cuff, (didn’t they say it was tendenitus), and pitched his last game on August 30th. Beachy missed over a month. Are you telling me this bunch could not have scratched out two more wins?

Jun 17, 2011 – Braves right-hander Tommy Hanson will miss Friday’s start against the Rangers with right shoulder tendinitis, the club announced Thursday.

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.227/.319/.389
.260/.302/.385

Those numbers are why we didn’t make it. Look at it how you want but we lost by 1 GAME! ONE GAME! Thats ONE big knock to win one of those 1 run games we had this season. Couldn’t get it.

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Good piece, Jeff.

IMO the lack of hitting is what set the stage for Fredi to, in fact, over work the the bullpen!!

It all comes down to the lack of hitting!!

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The only headline I want to see is “FREDI’s FIRED, CHIPPER RETIRES”

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I can’t understand for the life of me, how so many pitchers, pitched their all time best game against the Braves this season? Truely puzzling. Can you tell me Chipper, Craig, Dan, Alex, Brian. Surely at least one of you guy’s must have a clue.

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I think if you actually analyzed what the problem was … it is a simple statistic … swinging at too many balls outside the strike zone. This is the only difference between this years team an last years team that explains most of the offensive issues BB down from 634 last year to 504 this year. That is a whole lot of runners that never made it to base.

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I think this is going to be the worst year of Heywards career I think he needs some time off to get healthy and work and I think he’ll return back to form I think pp are overreacting on a 2 year player.I wonder what you guys are going to say nxt year when Freeman struggles bc the league will make adjustments to him at the plate,are you gonna want to trade him to.

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Very, very true, Lost Cause. Ive been saying the same thing all season. Thats the “Larry Parrish Affect”

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There’s something wrong with this teams psyche. There seems to be a politeness, an acceptance, a kind of niavite. Even fans are that way. They don’t show up until the third inning and then they get on their cell phone. The guy in front of me one game read the Sunday newspaper. Maybe it’s the South. Maybe we’re really just getting what we want. To say this team lacks a killer instinct is laughable. Thi team is “proper”. It does the “proper” things. Figuratively speaking, to win it all in professional sports today you need a mind set that wants to cut out the heart of the competition. You don’t just want to beat them. You want to pound them into the dirt. “MY God! No, not in Atlanta!”. I remember fans who threw quarters at Reggie Jackson in NY when he didn’t do well. Fights in the locker room that morphed on the field into a fighting psyche against the competition. Columnists that ripped players who didn’t produce while making millions. Players booed wherever they went. I also remember the opposite. The praise, idolization,respect from columnists and fans when players excelled. Most of this, of course, was in the north. New York, Philadelphia, Detroit. Places and teams Atlantans don’t want to look to. Well folks, look to the tv because you’ll see them all in the playoffs. The Braves will “properly” be home.

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This is the only top tier team in the league that can’t put together a batting order.

When your aging veteran demands a 3 spot…and your missing key guys through-out the year…what are you suppose to do?

This team needs a true #3 hitter that rivals the Phils, Yanks, Brew, Tex, St. Louis…….beat goes on. Chipper is not that guy anymore. His in and out of the line-up is disruptive and needs to be shifted down. That way when he’s sitting, it’s less disruptive to the flow of our top guys. He can clearly still hit, but he needs to realize that he can’t play everyday and this team just never got it together.

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Freddi Freeman is no Jason Heyward. Pitchers may adjust but he will have the mental capacity to also make adjustments.

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Jeff, I think you touched the point in your column – Fredi came in and was just like Bobby Cox! Recall Cox also did not have a stellar record of getting his teams to “rise to the occasion”. More than once his “calm clubhouse” fell on their faces – the only difference was it was usually in the first round of the playoffs so all was forgiven.
At the end of the day Fredi is going to have to make changes in his behavior, his coaching staff, and his players. He has a young/old team, with few mid-career guys, so he needs to think more about keeping the young ones motivated, rested and not overmatched while keeping the old ones fresh and in tune. There also appears to be the need for more “hand holding” with the young ones. There is no excuse for Kimbrel to say he was “too amped up” in what, his 70th appearance of the year??
Overall I think the staff was TOO laid back. The ONLY positive: there’s always next year!

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Wait a minute, Jeff…. We lost 2 of our best 3 starters for the entire month which caused the bullpen to blow a gasket as the sub-starters could not go into the 7th, 8th or 9th enough times…. This team was still built on starting pitching and the Bullpen and that became our weakness… Medlen was hurt all year, the Young-ins are not quite ready and he had to ask Lowe to step up and the used up starter couldn’t get it done…. I don’t blame Gonzalez… It is what it is… Chipper and McCann got hurt and that hurt also….

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-Most Braves Fans(including ME) welcomed Freddi G to replace Bobbie
-But Remember-Bobbie was not that productive the past five years – one and out last year
-Braves Players LOST THIS TOO- Brian never recovered but Freddie should have played Ross, same with Jason, most Braves Fans fully support Jason as future Star but he was terriblle this year-Why sit red-hot Georgie ?
- Chipper played too amny games hurt but Wren never got a good 3rd base Replacement-do not put us thru 2012 with Chipper playing hurt
- Prado really tamked when needed but Freddie played him and worse in 2nd spot-
-Wren did not go out and get desperately needed seasoned Bull Pen help-KIDS do not come out of the Pen in late Season and WIN .-Kimbrel was great but too much pressure ln late September -look at the eight Play-off Teams -seasoned Closers and Relievers- Wren should know better

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You have to put the loss on the offense,our pitching gave the offense alot of chances to win the game but they blew it.Also fire FG and his staff and start over.

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Orioles Fan – Chipper for Adam Jones….Done!
Hey, we traded Murph – anybody is fair game.

I have to believe this TEAM (not one particular player) set an all-time record for strikeouts with a runner at third and less than two outs. Brutal to witness – time and time again.

Good days ahead for Braves fans…Freddie Freeman & Craig Kimbrel both deserve to be ROY. Our young pitchers showed they belong with the Big Club. We need J-Hey to pull a Matt Kemp next year and get Mac & Uggla back to being Mac & Uggla – the entire season.

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Bob whare are you on?

With the exception of Lowe the pitching staff did more than it’s fair share of work to keep us in ball games. If our line-up knew how to swing a baseball bat at a baseball we would be hung over from drinking the bubbly last night.

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Bourn and Constanza at the top of the lineup on base all the time will make Chipper, Uggs, and McCann much better hitters than they probably are. Bourn will be the key to the entire team for the next few years. He can hit, run and disrupt pitchers.

P.S. I must be the only person int the world that thinks the Atlanta pitching is far overrated. The young arms are good but ready for a major league season? JJ, Hanson, Beachy, Minor not as good as we hope they are. D-Lowe- well I feel sorry for him. Old guy diminished skills owed a $100 trillion. No way he retires from that payday and no one will take him. He was good in the 90’s when he broke in.

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I have said all year that Wren does not know what he is doing. The best thing that can happen to the Braves this off season is for Wren to retire and take Fredi with him. Wren has made two good moves since he has been the GM. They are Uggala and Borne. Now why hasen’t he tried ti lock up Borne? Fredi is like Cox , He dosen’t know how to handle pitchers. Maybe Chipper should retire and take Fredi’s place
.

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Fredi was the problem. He needs to go now. He was fired midseason by the Marlins..why? His team quit on him. It has happened in Atlanta. He is the problem and we need to kill cancer before it spreads. Out with Fredi NOW!

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There is no doubt that Fruiti has lost the benefit of the doubt. His handling of the bullpen alone puts him on the hot seat. He was handed the best young bullpen in baseball and treated them like he was Dusty Baker. We all know what happened to Kerry Wood and Mark Pryor. If there are long term ramifications for the 26 year old Jonny Venters and Eric O’Flaherty and the 23 year old Craig Kimbrel, I will never forgive him.

This team’s strength is it’s youth. The future is bright as long as Fruiti doesn’t ruin our young arms. I have the utmost faith that McCann and Prado will turn it around next year because they’ve proven they are professional hitters. They’re just entering their prime. I am tempered on my expectations for Heyward (obviously) and Freeman (see Heyward), but I think they’ll have great careers. A full season of Bourn will be big as long as he is given the green light run at will. Prado needs to figure out how to hit behind him.

As painful as last night was this team is going to be a force for years to come. Find a sucker…err team to take Lowe and move Delgado into the rotation. Continue to groom Teheran. Use Minor as a trade chip if we can get an impact bat or keep him as insurance. God knows we needed it this year…

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A collapse like this means that someone HAS to be fired, even if only for symbolic purposes. LP gets my vote; if someone has to go, he seems the most easily replaceable on the staff.

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Kirk Gibson was everything that Fredi Gonzales wasn’t this year. Gibson has the grit that made the Arizona Diamonbacks, who finished last in the West last year, surge to shocking heights. The D-Backs took on the character of their manager, and they fought and scratched and clawed every pitch through the whole season. They bought in, made the effort, made the plays. Joe Maddon obviously has a similar effect on the Rays, who never quit. The Braves looked like deer in the headlights for the past month.

Fredi needs to put the fire and will of the D-Backs and the Rays into the Braves. I actually think Fredi needs to quit making excuses for guys and start calling some of them out. He’s too nice of a guy, and we know what happens to nice guys. They might not finish last, but they do finish out of the playoffs.

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following this team from a distance, could someone tell me how many (or how few) 1-2-3 innings Venters and Kimbrel had since mid-August? Maybe it was the introduction of Minor and Beachy into the rotation and they agreed among themselves it was either strikeout or walk for every batter. I haven’t read through all the comments but I haven’t noticed any questions about the pitching coach and the inability to convey the concept of pitch efficiency to these brilliant young arms.

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There’s nothing wrong with the players on the field. It’s the goals of present management. They seem to be satisfied with divisional titles. Take down those pennants at Turner Field. Leave up the ones that count . .. National League and World Series Championships. Divisional championships mean nothing! Aim higher. Ask yourself this question. Is the organizaton good enough to win it all. If it isn’t make some changes!

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Enter your comments here

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See, it shows now that Braves season is over maybe I can quit drinking every night

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I have been predicting this collapse for the last few weeks and it finally came to fruition. The Braves gave up an 8 1/2 game wild card lead and are now getting ready to hit the links on the golf course. Who is to blame for this monumental choke?

1. Fredi Gonzalez. Looking like a deer in headlights all season long, our fearful leader seems like just that. Bring back Bobby! At least that old dinosaur still had some blood pumping through those veins.

2. Offense. Our offense this season was well….offensive! 29 sac flies this year. Inability to score from third with less than 2 out. The list goes on forever. Fire f&%@ing Parrish.

3. God. Maybe God hates Atlanta. With all that traffic and crime, who’s to say it wasn’t a divine act from above? Just saying.

4. Everything else. This is just a combo of it all. Bad pitching. No hitting. No emotion.

Somebody, and if it has to be me, fine, needs to step in and light a fire under these “professional” assclowns asses!

See you next year

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Winnipeg Braves, Winnipeg Hawks, Winnipeg Falcons – make it happen.

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Ive been trying to get this nickname rolling for a while but it hasn’t caught on for some reason. I, for one, think its great.

Wait for it…..

Fredi Gonzsuckass.

Really? Nobody else likes that?

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Lets review:

The Braves had a decent season, except for lately when the pressure was on and they choked miserably because of highly paid players who refuse to hit, and a manager who was handed the keys to a nice car and eventually turned it into an unreliable clunker.

The attendance was bad this season, and will only get lots worse if Mr Excitement aka Fredi G is retained.

The Braves are a tired looking team.

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