Poll: Who should get most blame for Braves’ collapse?

I think you have to separate the discussions around the collapse and the season as a whole. For the collapse, it’s got to be Lowe or maybe Fredi’s management of the bullpen. If you look at it from a season perspective, it’s hard to look past Lowe (again), Prado or Heyward.

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LOL

Let’s go with Mike Bobo

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Why isn’t injuries an option?

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Fredi has countless times made boneheaded decisions this year… If I’m not mistaken twice he let the pitcher hit only to pull him next inning, also walking Ty wiggington to get to Carlos Gonzalez in Colorado earlier this season told me all I needed to know about that Moron of a manager!!!! Schultzie, why do you insist on giving that clown a pass????

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Are.

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Fredi had a clue of what he was going to get when he started Lowe. It’s Fredi’s team. No escaping that.

An epic fail in his first season. There’s a reason Florida fired him.

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I want to add chipper to this list, not for production cause that has been there from him, but as the leader of this team. I know he is not the coach and it’s not his job, but he is the vet whom has to close the door and lay into this team like a veteran leader is supposed to do in time of crisis…with that being said..I still think we got a punchers chance to win the wc and maybe more if this team figures out their offensive woes…..Go Braves!!!

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Jeff, are you going to the game this evening???

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Can we blame Bobby for retirin?. At least his meltdowns were in the postseason.

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It is obviously Fredi’s fault due to his inner Bobby Cox coming out by playing players due to his loyalty. Why isn’t Constanza not playing? This team played its best when he had Bourne at the top of the lineup and Georgie Constanza at the bottom. This isn’t a 3 run home run league any more and speed is the name of the game. Heyward had no business playing every day, and why he made the move to put him back in the lineup is insane. I am typically not a coach killer, because I know players play and coaches coach, but not in this case. Loyalty has no place on teams who want to win.

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I voted for Heyward, but agree that Prado has been really disappointing, especially in the 2nd half. The inability to get on base or at least make productive outs in the two hole has been really frustrating and speaks to the trouble the team has had in manufacturing runs, especially given Bourn’s speed at the top of the lineup. Those intangibles don’t show up in the box score, but are key to winning close games. Really makes you appreciate the Jeff Blausers, Jeff Treadways, Walt Weiss, Marcus Giles, etc. of yesteryear. It’s a shame…no one works harder than Prado. Would be interesting to see how many different players we used in the two hole over the year. You’ve got that info handy, right Jeff?

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I blame the injuries to Hanson and Jair. It’s that simple. As dissapointed and annoyed as I am that we’re in this position, I still have a lot of hope for next year with all the young talent. D-Lowe has one year left on his contract, I believe? Stick him in the bullpenn. As you or Mark wrote recently, he’d probably be decent in the 6th/7th innning role and take some of the pressure off of O’Flaherty and Venters.

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One thing our current president don’t understand is that the buck stops at the top. He’s got a spending problem while Braves ownership is sitting on the money bags. There is too much uncertainty. Therefore, I blame Liberty Media for being cheap skinflints. So thar!

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It has to be Larry Parrish. Wren did all that he could do at the deadline and those prospects he did not trade contributed greatly when the injuries hit. Gonzales can only do so much, as you say, but maybe so much tinkering created an uneasiness in the locker room. Lowe is one pitcher out of five – though he makes 15 mil. Heyward can’t be thrown under the bus this early, Prado was a pleasant suprise last year, and McCann has been this team’s MVP for two seasons at least. Uggla carried this team for a month.

The offense has been horrible most of the year. Our pitching carried us all year. It was obvious that, when we needed our offense, it would not be able to show up. I don’t know how much Parrish influences the production, but it has to be at least somewhat significant to get paid to do it.

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Is it just me, or didn’t Mr. Lowe’s decline pretty much coincide with his DUI arrest on Peachtree Street in Buckhead? He has had a bad season from start to finish, but it seems to me that his won/loss record took a percipitous dive after his driving incident. This begs the proverbial cause & effect question, was he DUI because he was depressed about his poor performance or has his performance declined because of his drinking and partying – the $15 million a year windfall eroding his commitment?

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If the Yankees screw up and make a bad investment they write it off. If the Braves screw up and make a bad investment they just have to live or die with it.

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I personally think the Braves should eliminate the hitting coach position and spend the extra money on actual hitters.

They are incapable of hiring a hitting coach who can help them anyway.

This is on Derrick Lowe though as much as anyone. He’s paid to be Roy Oswalt. He’s paid to do what Oswalt did to the Braves last night. Big Time Post Season pitcher that can throw a lot of innings is what they sold us.

He’s been WORTHLESS. Biggest moment of his tenure last night. He was WORTHLESS.

Jason Heyward has now been here and been terrible long enough to take the full brunt too. The guy is a liability at the plate and sometimes in the field. He’s not good enough to be a major league starting Right Fielder PERIOD. Jason Heyward has been absent in RF.

The Braves Outfield is culpapble and has been probably since Andrew Jones left town… and he wasn’t that great at the end either.

Frank Wren has failed miserably to field an outfield that can actually play.

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Most blame goes to Fredi. It’s his team, and like the others have said, I’ve witnessed some head-scratching moments after some of his moves. But I also remember as a kid when Bobby Cox was an inept manager 30 years ago. So, I have to cut the guy some slack. Still, his fault. He’s the head, the brains behind this freak show we’re witnessing.

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The Washington Nationals are mostly to blame.

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I cannot BELIEVE all the “fire fredi” comments. really? REALLY? they are in contention for the wild card on the last game of the season. Had I told you that would be the case in April, would you not have thought that a successful season? What if I told you that Prado would hit .250, Heyward would plummet, and Jurrjens and Hanson would go down with a month left, and they STILL had a chance at the postseason, would you have said Fredi had a bad first season???

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You lose 2 All-Star caliber starting pitchers off any team, it will be very difficult to win at the major league level. Atlanta’s formula for success is, or has been, pitching-first with timely hitting.

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I just don’t think you can “blame” Prado, McCann, or Chipper, because their troubles all stem from nagging injuries. And although he frustrates the hell out of me, you can’t really crap on D-Lowe – the man is way past his prime. Not his fault that he was over-signed and over-paid.

I put most of the blame on management and leadership – Wren and Fredi and the coaches. Their moves, or lack thereof, either did not work or were insufficient to the cause. I personally would like to see a complete sweep of the clubhouse coaching staff.

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Lots of comments about coaches, management, etc and that’s really understandable and I agree generally. I’d more specifically point to the lack of trying more hit-and-run situations, more bunting runners over, maybe just throwing the rule book out the window—more squeeze plays in bases loaded situations . The team strikes out a lot, but what the hell.

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Enter your comments here

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I think injuries to the pitching staff are really to blame, the front office has put together a pretty good team. They do not hit on a consistent basis.

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I voted for Larry Parrish because the offensive philosophy of consistently swinging at the first pitch has been a problem since day one, but I really lay the blame at the injuries to Jurrjens and Hanson. They combined for 22 games at the all-star break. But in the 2nd half the rookies who were forced to replace them won only 7 games. While Teheran, Delgado and Minor did a very good job and the future looks bright, the chain reaction of putting the onus on the bullpen for all those innings, coupled with Lowe’s bad performances, made the offensive struggles even more evident.

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Lowe took the money. When you take the money, you are stating you are the man and you want it that way. He was the man last year at this time. But that does not excuse this year. Last year he performed up to his salary level. This year he has not. No confidence he will next year either. If you cannot perform to the pay scale you are earning, you are the goat. You gotta earn the paycheck every season – not just for 2 months of a 4 year deal.. Give the money back and retire.

I see Uggla as a different case. He carried the team offensively the second half. He took the money and sucked the first half but has earned it the second half. Only the average is off. His power numbers are where they are for what he is being paid and his defense has been better.

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It is interesting to think way back four years ago, when D-Lowe was one of the hottest pitchers on the market, and we got him. The blogs were lit up with “WE GOT DERRICK LOWE!” comments. Wow, what a difference four years makes!

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Uh, that would be DEREK Lowe. Sorry, spell checker not working today.

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A close second for the blame wold ge Fredi. It is obvious Lowe is done, and Fredi keeps running him out there. IF Braves are lucky enough to make playoffs, better come to their senses and leave Lowe off the roster entirely.

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If you’re mechanics are wrong you better bloodly well fix them.

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frank wren #1,larry parrish#2 ,these players are’nt robots,like many of you think,162 + games,they are humanoids just like you,and get injured,wear down,regular life stuff,etc.,as bad as it seems,we still have a chance on yhe last game of the year,most of you don’t remember before 1991,i’ve been a braves fan since 1966,so boo freaking hoo fairweather,bandwagon,”fans”? also jason heyward needs to workout his problems @ gwinnett next year,not atl.,just some production from him,and we might not be in this predicament. i know the hype and the jersey $$$$ he brings keeps them from sending him down,but really?! word!

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This just in! White House says both Braves and Red Sox collapse is George Bush’s fault

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Hey! You don’t want to include Chipper Jones because he’s 39???? Good, when he gives back the $14M dollars, then he doesn’t get included. Braves management had to be crazy and drunk to give him that money to keep him here. He could have been let go (like A. Jones) to be the disaster for another team. Clean house and get rid of all the old guys and take your lumps for 2-3 years and rebuild with the core younger players.

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My granddaughter asked me last night what “pitiful” meant. I just pointed to the TV screen as the Braves played. The entire team has collapsed. And that’s hard to do in baseball, where every player’s contribution is almost exclusively individual. I didn’t think it possible for everyone to be playing so badly at the same time. Relish this. We might be a witness to baseball history being made.

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It’s the team not any individual, you win as a team and lose as a team!! NO I IN THE WORD TEAM!

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Jeff,

I agree with the many who opt for “the offense as a whole”. Now who is to blame for this? From my perspective low RISP is a mental issue rather than a physical one, so I turn to the manager and hitting coach, along with the team psychologist (they do have one I presume!). I also look to the team leaders such as Chipper and Brian.
For me a telling commentary is that both these team leaders turn to someone outside the organization to help them with their swings. I have read more of your articles sighting Chipper’s help than LP. And least we forget the years of damage TP inflicted!
In sum the entire organization is to “blame”, the question is what to change for next year to prevent yet another repeat performance. I would nail down a PROVEN hitting coach whom the players would trust and respect, and that list does not include TP or LP.

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F. Gonzalez. Period.

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Can we hang this on the Atlanta Spirit?

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Carlton:

1.) I blame Lowe’s DUI
There was no DUI charge against him. It was dropped

2.) I blame Chipper’s ego (lose a ground ball in the lights..really??)
Lights were repositioned for football and the ball hit off the plate, if you looked up after the swing, it looked like a pop up, but don’t let facts get in the way of a irrational rant.

3.) I blame Heyward forgetting how to hit
Me too

4.) I blame the Omar Infante trade
Not sure how this works but I guess you’re saying that you blame Uggla? He hit his home runs, that’s what the Braves paid him to do.

5.) I blame Martin Prado not hustling
Haven’t seen that, but honestly his reputation is so good that I haven’t looked for it.

6.) I blame Fredi for not keeping Jorge Constanza on this roster and starting
Um, Constanza is on the roster and hitting worse than Heyward. See Sept stats. Again, don’t let the facts stop your rant.

7.) I blame Frank Wren for thinking Kawakami would be the next Japanese sensation..and paying for it, literally and figuratively
He took a gamble and lost. That had next to no impact on this season. At least he knew he was wrong and moved him off of the active roster in 2011.

8.) I blame Frank Wren for not dumping Derek Lowe earlier, I think we ALL saw this coming.
If you had a $30 million dollar employee working for you on a two year guaranteed contract, I’d like to know what you would do. Seriously. Please though, don’t say anything about a trade. They tried, no one took him. Would you suggest paying someone $30 million to sit at home? Really?

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Nova Scotia hit the nail on the head with the first comment on this string. Yes we lost two first-line pitchers and even Lowe has publically admitted he sucked. But given the abmysal RISP average the team has posted this month, the entire offense is most to blame. As for the Constanza issue, I think that he may be one of the “Players to be named later” from an earlier trade and Freddie has been instructed to go lightly with him. I cannot think of another reason why Constanza has not been -playing when he was so effective when he was in there.

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I like Fredi but the blame lies with him. I think his quick hook and sticking to pitch counts no matter what the circumstance has worn out his bullpen. Perfect example: Delgado is pitching well in game 1 of the phillies and had only thrown 82 pitches. Fredi didn’t give him the opportunity to keep going, turned the game over to the Bullpen and they blew it. I realize there are times especially early in the season when you have to stick to pitch counts. However, when you are in a penant race you have to throw pitch counts out the window and go with the hot hand. Fredi won’t do it and his worn out bullpen is now costing him games.

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Hey Atlanta, there’s roughly 25 or so other cities out there that would kill to be in the position we are, with a young winning team, still in the playoff chase, and with upside to be much better in the coming years. Seriously, just shut up with the who to blame thing and root for your @##$%%%^^^ team.

If you got to blame someone, blame the AJC for it’s years of brainwashing this city with it’s negativity.

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The Braves, including their manager, are probably taking a page out of the President’s book and blaming everyone except themselves right now.

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2 years in a row McCann has bombed down the stretch…I especially know this because 2 years in a row I traded for him at our Fantasy League deadline to help my stretch run. In the words of George W. Bush, “fool me once…..shame on…………….you, fool me, you can’t get fooled again.” http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/bushvideos/youtube/bushfoolme.htm

Time to trade McCann.

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When it comes to DL, Karma has a lot to do with this. His and the team’s failure. Karma can be a positive and can be a negative, but it will usually come back to visit you. Karma can also be revengeful. I can attest to that, as can many. One can get off with just a slight “slap on the wrist” or even nothing at all, but in the end, you will pay a price. Just ask O.J.

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They ALL stink. Management, coaches and players are all culpable in this fiasco. Frankly, I wouldn’t even know where to start to fix this mess. J-Hey has looked lost, D-Lowe is a waste of roster space, Fredi G’s management has been perplexing, and the front office seems to make too many bad moves or not needed moves.

The only good thing has been the relief corps, Freemans’ emergence and hopefully the emergence of some qualify arms on the starting rotation in Minor, Beachy, etc.

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Mickey Mouse injuries!!!

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Steve Bartman

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I blame everyone and everything, mostly professional hitters not hitting. This is nothing new to Atlanta fans. The Braves have been magnificent in their failure at the plate, even during that 14 year run with world class pitching day in and day out.

I will bet that the Braves probably have the worst batting average of any playoff team since 1991.

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I blame M Bradley . Any time he says something positive about this team(Dating back to last year), this team plays opposite.

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There is a lot of blame to go around, but I think the manager is the one to blame for this kind of disaster. Bobby Cox always found a way to take the pressure off the players in these kind of situations, and you can’t argue with the results of his success. There is one other player you missed. Jurrjens. How does a bruised knee keep this guy from pitching? I mean come on now. Players are not as durable as they once were.

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I blame Derek Lowe just because when I look at the poll his name makes me more upset then the rest.

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you can’t really put the blam on any one person because none of them are playing any good at the moment. Hopefully Huddy will step up tonight and maybe we’ll get a little offense and win this thing. Go Braves!!

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Fredi – a manager has the ability (or lack of) to motivate the team thru tough stretches – this was one of Cox’s best traits. This team has clearly lost confidence and it shows itself in the most depressing ways now. There are a host of other problems but lack of confidence permeats the team and they have obviously not been able to overcome that.

That falls on Fredi.

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How is Uggla on the list but not Chipper? If it wasnt for dan we wouldnt have built up the 8.5 game lead in the first place. My blame list….
1.Brian McCann: Hasnt hit ANYTHING since the oblique injury. A teams “best” hitter should not have to be hitting 6th
2.Chipper Jones: Lack of leadership, sporadic play during regular season, ego to realize that he cant be effective every day player on a consistent basis anymore.
3.Jason Heywards sophomore slump: Just isnt the same guy he was as a rookie. He will come around.
4.Derek Lowe: Partly for his poor performance but mainly for him not to make the needed adjustments (like he did last season before playoffs) to get better and at least be somewhat effective.
5.Offense: we cant hit
6: Freddie G: solely for sticking with Lowe as long as he has.

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On-base percentages: Uggla .309, Prado .304, Gonzalez .270 (!), Jack Wilson .237, Diaz .294, Schafer .307, Heyward .319, Bourn .313

In September: Constanza .182, Wilson .237, Hinske .240, Conrad .250, Diaz .258, Prado .262, Bourn .298, Freeman .303, Ross .313.

Plenty of blame to go around.

(Interestingly, everyone’s favorite whipping boy Jason Heyward is at .372 in September and the truly awful Alex Gonzalez is (was) having an anomalously good month at .385).

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The reason we quit playing Constanza: He quit hitting

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I respectfully disagree that Chipper can’t be one of the options to blame. He is the clubhouse leader and has obviously failed to motivate the rest of this team. If you can lay blame on Fredi (which he deserves a lot) then you can lay just as much at the feet of #10. This whole “we are professionals and know what to do” is obviously a load of crap. With the respect he has on this team if he decided to light a few people up then maybe we’d see some different results right now.

Aside from blame though, I believe this entire meltdown raises/re-raises some valid questions — Did the Braves blow it with the Fredi Gonzales hire last year? I know Fredi is a good manager, but is he just too similar to Bobby? This organization has obviously struggled in the past few years to get back to where it wants to be and might an obvious change in direction have been more appropriate? Other questions to being to ponder — if the Braves don’t make the playoffs/go home early… then will we see wholesale changes in the off-season? Or, will Frank just see this as a fluke/blame it on the injury bug and only make minor tweaks? Maybe the more important question though… will an individual who would actually care about the on field product step up and make a bid to buy this team from Liberty Media so Frank could actually make wholesale changes if he did want to?

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You can’t blame the pitching coach without blaming the manager who hired him.

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Braves One,

I admire your sticking with the Braves, but you are just making excuses. I don’t care what anybody thought pre-season about the Braves’ chances. No team should blow that kind of lead, and look so pathetic in the last month doing it. Just a sad sight wo watch…

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I blame Bert Weiss.

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I’m a life-long Cardinals fan, but over the past several weeks I’ve pointed out here several times to all of you pessimistic Braves fans that it is your team which is in the driver’s seat, and the Cardinals who are just hanging on desperately trying to close an almost insurrountable lead. So I’ll say it once more…oops. Never mind. Sorry about that.

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Chipper must retire!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Too much money for a part- time player! Thanks for the good years but it’s time to go!!

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Fredi Gonzalez- overused the bullpen earlier in the year- AND Derek Lowe- did not step up with the others were injured- AND the medical staff- for not diagnosing JJ and Hanson properly early on and prescribing the proper rehab.

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Its the fans fault – they voted with their feet down the stretch. Don’t you all know that we won 14 straight divisional championships?

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I look at two things. First Larry Parrish hasn’t work. I have never seem so many hitters whose head is looking towards the field when the bat is near the ball. Old saying, “can’t hit what you don’t see.”

Second, losing 2 out of your 3 pitchers has been huge. The kids have tried to fill in and you can see their obvious talent but it has worn out the overused bullpen pitching the last 4 innings of these games.

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pb … You make my point exactly. “No TEAM should blow that kind of lead”. Uggla didn’t blow the lead, Heyward didn’t blow the lead, the TEAM blew the lead. Embracing the team concept in baseball is not about making excuses, its the reality of this great game.

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No player, let alone a pitcher, is responsible for 50% of a team’s performance. I believe that even in the games that a pitcher starts it has been shown he is only responsible for about 30% of the win expectancy.

This is not to say Lowe isn’t horrible. He obviously is. This next statement is going to get me nothing but grief but Lowe’s xFIP is 3.65 and his WAR is 2.5 (fansgraph version). I was surprised to see that.

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When Cox was manager the cry was that he went to much “by the book” during one of the most successful runs in bMLB history. Fredi proves that he’s not afraid to shake things up and his moves are criticized when worse case scenario is they miss the playoffs by one game. I vote that it’s the fans fault for having so many idiots among them.

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Fredi-Cat Gonzalez, 50% – wrong moves, wrong time, wrong lineups, Wren, 20% for Lowe’s and Kawakami’s contracts, McChoke 15% – if he just bats .200 for Sept, they would have been in, 10% Chipper, a double play waiting to happen, 5% Ugla, the most undisciplined hitter in the league.

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I’d go with Larry Parrish and the trainer (Bubba, I think?). It’s been the offense and injuries to JJ, Hanson, McCann, Heyward, Gonzo (while he was hot), Medlen, and Moylan.

Fredi’s managing of the bullpen has no doubt cost them wins along the way, and maybe a couple of games during September due to Venters and Kimbrel overuse, but basically the Braves are unable to score more than 2-3 runs most days. 4 runs is an explosion for us.

I didn’t think we could do worse than TP, but I think we have. I think I’m convincing myself that it’s more Parrish than Bubba.

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How about Jeff Schultz and Mark Bradley?

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I blame George Bush.

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I blame Maddux, Glavine and Smoltz for getting too old.

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I blame Steve Bartman.

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Mr. Dawg is alot closer to the truth than 99 percent of the bloggers. Fact is, most cities would be happy to have what we have. You lot of whiners, haters and complainers are looking for someone to blame before there’s even something to blame them for.

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Overheard from last night’s close door meeting between Parrish and the hitters., PARRISH: ok guys we’re going to do something different, let’s try hitting outside pitches to the opposite field, UGLA: What’s the opposite field? HEYWARD: What’s an outside pitch? MCCHOKE: So I can hit weak grounders to 3rd instead of 2nd? PARRISH: ok this is going to be a long meeting.

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Why are we talking blame in the first place? I thought it was more or less universally agreed that the loss (to injury) of Hanson and Juirjens put too much of a burden on the bullpen and the other (mostly young) starters. Is it possible the team fell into a whole that no one could reasonably expect them to climb out of?

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Lowe pitches every 5th day; Gonzalez tries to manage every night.

Gonzalez, hands down!

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I blame the city of Milwaukee. If they had held on to the Braves, the whiners wouldn’t have anyone to blame.

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i still cant understand why you dont start hinske in right.proven hitter. im also sorry to say i believe its over. love tim hudson,but you still have to hit,and folks we just do not have a clue! gotta believe cardinals beat stros again and we cannot beat phillies( again sorry tim,not your fault ).wait till next year !

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Players get old and players have bad seasons so its hard for me to blame the players altough certainly had they played better the Braves wouldn’t be where they are today. I blame management! Wren put the team together so he has some blame and Freddie managed the team all year so he gets some blame. Now Freddie can’t make Heyward hit better or Lowe pitch better and he can’t keep guys from getting injured. However, he has got to find away for this team to keeps a 8 1/2 game lead! That is his job and if they miss the playoffs he failed at his job. In my opinion he along with Wren, Heyward, Lowe, Prado, and Gonzo are due blame.

I wouldn’t fire Freddie because the injury to Hanson and JJ along with Uggla and Heyward struggles were not in his direct control but he would be put on a short leash next year! I think he is a good manager but he will get most of the blame.

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I know I’m not alone when I say that even should the Braves manage to sneak into October, my passion for them is dead right now. It’s not that I don’t care at all anymore; it’s simply that this team has given us absolutely no reason to believe it can or will overcome its deficiencies and win the World Series, which if you reach the playoffs is the only goal that matters. You see it in their faces; they’re defeated and downcast, and once the Phillies had the lead last night every Braves batter looked like a guy walking to the gallows. This is not a team that in any way inspires enthusiasm, passion, and certainly not confidence, and yes, they ARE still my team so I can say that objectively.

I don’t blame Frank Wren quite so much (although Kawakami and Lowe HAVE BEEN real sore spots) because after all he has to work within Liberty Media’s limitations (and hey, the sooner the Braves get eliminated the bright side is the sooner the tax write-off ends and we can get a REAL owner in here! Talk about an opportunity for Arthur Blank to buy low when it comes to the Braves’ stock!).

I backed Freddi Gonzalez when he was first hired because there were indeed times when he seemed to get more out of a weak Marlins team than was expected, but in every sense of the word my feelings have changed given his handling of the Braves; things tend to be glossed over and put off that need quick addressing if they ever get dealt with at all (i.e. Jason Heyward should have been in Gwinnett back in May). And Larry Parrish needs to go as well, just as Terry Pendleton wasn’t getting the job done. My hope is that Gonzalez and Parrish will be replaced by a competitive (and competent) staff soon after the season is over. You don’t have an offense this woeful given what this lineup should be able to do on paper without their being accountability and consequences.

As for Lowe, I don’t care if the Braves still owe him $15 million for next season; you seriously want to keep paying him to LOSE games for the Braves? Better to cut your losses and take what you can for him, if anything. Don’t let him back on the mound, ever.

Dan Uggla has indeed confirmed my fears, much as happened with Troy Glaus last May; a long, agonizingly slow start followed by a torrid month…followed by a slow, agonizing finish. He needs to get this fixed over the winter, period. As does Jason Heyward, be it via winter ball and if necessary even starting next year in the minors.

I still believe a healthy Brian McCann and Chipper Jones can be a great asset (and it’s clear that McCann hasn’t been the same since throwing out his back). As for Martin Prado, next season will tell if 2010 was what he’s really capable of or was just an aberration. If the latter is the case, then he’s a platoon or bench guy at best. Alex Gonzalez has his moments but it’s time for him to go; with Pastornicky (meaning another Brave with great speed) waiting in the wings, it only makes sense. Freddie Freeman has been streaky but I can look past that for now since he’s still a rookie; next year more consistency will be expected from him, however.

As for O’Flaherty, Venters, and Kimbrel, you honestly couldn’t ask for much more from three guys as much as they’ve been overused this season. Give them another two or three competent relievers to help shoulder the load next year and the Braves should be bulletproof in the late innings.

It’s kind of bad, but I haven’t looked forward like this to offseason events for the Braves since, oh, probably 1985 (the year the Eddie Haas “era” began AND ended).

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Wren has let a certain right fielder’s trade value plummet to zip.

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Maybe the players lost interest once the college football season began. I know I did.

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I blame Chipper for losing a grounder in the lights.

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How do you try to blame one person when the entire team stopped hitting all at once?

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I’m in my sixties and have been a baseball enthusiast most of my life. I feel I know the innards of the game better than most people. I’ve been a Braves fan since 1976 and I love them. It seems to me that when you have almost every player hitting well below their career average, the onus should fall on Larry Parrish. After all, isn’t a hitting coach supposed to be able to spot flaws and defects in a hitters swing and work to correct that swing? With so many of the Braves hitters struggling well below their average, Parrish seems inept and useless and the Braves hitters have lost all their confidence. When batters are struggling, one sure remedy is to try to hit the ball up the middle or the opposite way instead of trying to pull everything out of the yard. Freeman….whatever you do….please don’t listen to Parrish. Sorry for rambling on but this is so frustrating. Go Bravos!!!!

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wren needs firing to many holes need filling on his team and i dont mean the pitching

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George Bush. Heck, he gets blamed for everything else.

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I blame Bush because he handed off the great recession to the next in line… and ran up the debt 6 trillion BEFORE the great recession happened on his watch in late 07!

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LOWE MUST GO!!

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Always looking to blame somebody. Get somebody fired. How about things happen sometimes. Ask the Red Sox. Ask the doctors of the team pitching staff. The ONLY blame I can see going around MAYBE is the hitting coach but even thats weak because every player has hit good at times this year except Heyward….I would be playing Constanza instead of him tonight and would have been the last few weeks. Lowe cant bend his back? He needs to be doing some serious stretching then instead of whatever else hes been doing! Who has been working with him on that?

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Hows that post-season ticket campaign going, Braves???

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at least you don’t have me to blame, I tryed as hard as I could!

@ Parkview…

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No Tom, you away. First, the reasons for this slump are obvious to even the most simple minded unbiased observer. If the if even one of the two injured pitchers doesn’t get hurt, you’re not having this discussion. End of story.

You’re just the typical blogger that’s led around by the media drumming up drama. It’s a young team, with young guys in key roles everywhere, and they got hit with massive debilitating injuries to the rotation at the end of season. End of story.

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The answer to this question is simple. OFFENSE!!! You can’t blame any pitcher (other than Lowe) singlehandedly. You can’t win in the major leagues scoring two or three runs a game. It all boils down to Uggla’s hot and cold hitting, Heyward not hitting at all, McCann being banged up and not producing, and Prado not hitting. You can’t rely on a 22 year old rookie and a 39 year old Larry Wayne. I do agree though, if we get in the playoffs watch out! We all know a team can get hot and ride it all the way through the playoffs!

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I blame it on the lack of a team leader, a good, confident player who remains accountable and who can lead the way by getting clutch hits and showing everybody else how to get it done. Paul O’Neill, a great clutch hitter for the 1990s Yankees, is a good example of such a player. Chipper, with his lame it’s-out-of-our-control type of excuses is not such a player. And as far as playing hurt goes, Mickey Mantle he’s not.

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The guy that hired the Marlin reject and the Marlin reject.

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And while we’re finding fault and passing blame, let’s not forget the flu. Several times flu-like symptoms have evidenced themselves and caused players to miss playing time. Lowe had flu-like symptoms, McDowell, and of course, Chipper. Andruw used to have them in his Gold Club days. A ballplayer should never report to the ballpark after a night of incurring flu-like symptoms.

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I would say this is an entire team implosion. Everyone has failed at one point or another down the stretch. Some are more to blame than others, of course, but everyone has contributed. Except maybe Hudson, but he’s not exactly been perfect either (not that he’s expected to).

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LOL – and the mold in the clubhouse… can’t forget that!!

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Bring back bobby cox! Fredi can’t manage at this leve.

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I’d take Constanza’s production – offense and defense – over what we got with Heyward

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I dont envy Joe Madden of the Rays…. I envy his PLAYERS!

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I agree with what others have said about Costanza… why did he disappear? That is on Freddie. Crnkbt: you are way off. At the trade deadline our pitching was fine… everyone wanted him to trade pitching for a right handed power hitter. He made the best trade he could. Anybody who blames Chipper is an idiot…how about blaming the fans who whine constantly (even during the 14 year run) and do not show support for the team. Real Baseball towns(Boston, St. Louis etc.) support their team no matter what.

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I agree Jo Jo… bronkelliott missed it… it’s about the players… I’d trade ours for theirs ANY DAY OF THE WEEK!

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Enter your comments here

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Blame Liberty Media. They only view the Braves as a tax deduction, and the payroll allows for zero flexibility if things aren’t working out with a player. Players come and go, but the buck ultimately stops with the ownership.

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Keeping it Real… you ain’t doin’ what your name says – Brothah! YOus gots too much bling bro!

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I can’t vote, there’s to much blame to go around. Ultimately I blame ownership. We’re hamstrung with putting together a team. But somethings are just inexplicable. Look at the Red Sox, they have a rockin’ team and they blew it too.

Good news is we are the double cursed Cubs. Adding the Bartman curse to their list will ensure they will never see a World Series as long as I live. Given the behavior I have seen by their fans in Atlanta, that’s fine with me…
The Cubs aren’t lovable, they’re just losers….

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Here is why the Braves have collapsed…

Batting Averages in September…
McCann – .200 (.182 before a few hits last night)
Uggla – .237 (right on his season average…pretty pitiful for the money he is making)
Freeman – .227 (for the span of the minor league season he was great…big boy season has brought him back to reality)
Bourn – .257 (.298 OBP LOL) – can’t steal if you’re not on base
Constanza – o wait…he hit over .300 during his significant playing time but he’s not getting paid or isn’t considered the poster child of the Braves so he can’t play in September apparently…who needs speed, we only went what…14-8 with him in the line up. What have we done since he was taken out and never heard from again???
Prado – .240 (.219 in August) what an awful year…having him in the 2 spot is painful to watch every night…maybe the bomb will get him going
A Gonz – .367 (obviously he isn’t playing tonight…sad when he’s the guy you look forward to coming up to the plate) (calf must be pretty badly strained to miss a game like tonight…)
Chipper – .284 (.359 in August) showing why he is a HOF’er

Don’t get me started on ERA for pitchers…Batting averages and BA’s with runners in scoring position is why we are sliding. Its no one person. Its not one person…its about the team not performing. Stop blaming coaches. Coaches in the big leagues do very little coaching. They all know what to do. Its a matter of going out and performing on a daily basis. St. Louis is performing…We are not. That can all change tonight though! Go BRAVES!!!!

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This was a team effort and, in my opinion, was mostly due to injuries. Nonetheless, here’s how I rank the answer to THE COLLAPSE:

1. Biggest impact: Losing Hanson & Jurrjens.
2. Next: McCann’s injury, struggling at the plate after return.
3. Next: Heyward, possibly sophomore jinx?
4. Finally, if not most importantly: HURRICANE IRENE!!! Seriously.

The 2-game Irene disturbance (games cancelled at Mets Aug. 27th & 28th) plus Monday’s day off (Aug 29th) took the steam out of a major Braves run. The Braves went from hot to cold: In the 19 games before Irene & the 3-day layoff, the Braves were 14 – 5; they were 12 – 3 in the 15 games pre-Irene. Post Irene: 10 – 18. Momentum can play a huge roll in many sports, especially at crunch time ……..

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M’ville Mayhem at 1:02:

Well said.

HT

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TAKE OUT HEYWARD AND INSERT CONSTANZA! I’ts probably too little too late – but give it a try… That Oak Tree of a right fielder can’t hit the ball out of the infield!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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And blaming the hitting coach is ridiculous. Hitting is an individual act and the hitting coach is nothing more than a person that is available for the players to use as a resource to help them with their swings. The player has to 1) agree with the coach’s ideas, and 2) execute those ideas in the game. It’s like a swing coach in golf. Is Sean Foley a terrible swing coach because Tiger can’t win a golf tournament? Of course not. Sean Foley has plenty of very successful “students” on the PGA Tour. The blame here falls almost entirely on the players.

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Jeff,

2 other comments on Frank Wren.

1) Nate McLouth’s contract, which we have been stuck with for multiple years (fortunately, this is his last year) has also limited flexibility.

2) Frank did not get a reliable reliever at the deadline (the team expected Moylan to be able to contribute, but he is coming off a big injury). If we had gotten a reliable reliever, maybe the workload on EOF, Venters and Kimbrel could have been reduced.

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While Uggla was a nice addition the team was about .500 during his hotstreak. OTher than that month he’s been worthless at the plate.

HOw many 30/100 guys do we have? None. How many do every other team that has already qualified for the playoffs have. At least 1. Every team already qualified has a bonified game changing hitter in the middle of their lineup. We don’t.

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The team doctor. No team can win when you lose 2 of your top of the rotation starting pictures. Blame it on injuries…just like last year. If Hanson and Juerjens were OK we would not be having this conversation…how would Phili be if Haladay and Lee were out?

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I blame the following:

Fredi—A.K.A. Bobby Cox Lite—Mishandling of the bullpen consistently. If we had just a couple of the wins that Scott Proctor blew as well as those that Linebrink blew then we would already be in the playoffs. Keeping Constanza out of the lineup when he and the rest of the team were hot and putting that no-hitting Heyward in there daily.

Parrish—The anemic offense is enough to say here. Wouldn’t you think that the hitting coach could keep these goons from consistently swinging a pitches in the dirt and outside. Seabass, Heyward, Uggla, McPopup, and Prado to name a few. Shouldn’t it be the responsibility of the hitting coach to make sure his players were not swinging at the first pitch almost every time up?

These are the coaches so they have responsibility for the result.

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No doubt, Jo Jo…. so what I’m saying is that if we had kept our ‘full’ rotation healthy, I believe we wouldn’t be talking about a collapse. But yeah, watching this offense is truly offensive most nights.

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Detroit… never said they weren’t playing hard… this team is simply in a ‘funk’ (made worse by the injury bug). They are playing hard, but most of them are playing not to lose right now instead of playing to win (excuse the cliche but it’s true). Chipper has done admirably with his bat lately, but IMHO this is where he could have been even more valuable to the team. I understand with the “we are professionals and know what to do” approach he was trying to take pressure off of them, but it hasn’t loosened this team up one bit. You could get diamonds out of some of these guys right now if you could get a piece of coal in the right body cavity. They know what the elephant in the room is. At what point do you change your approach? He obviously felt comfortable “calling out” J-Hey earlier in the year to try and light a fire, and even though Heyward hasn’t responded at the plate I think the rest of the team did respond from that leadership at the time.

Thankfully, Michael Bourn appears to be figuring it out. His entire demeanor and approach at the plate seemed different last night. It’s like he finally got ticked off at himself. There was no more slapping at the ball and hoping to place it for a hit, but actually driving through it and taking his chances. He only got one hit, but if he keeps that approach tonight then it could be HUGE for the Braves with Hudson on the mound…… might actually prolong our misery for one more game. ;-(

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@ATLien makes some good points. Don’t see why he should go away. I will say that the team should always be open to criticism. Even had the team waltzed into the playoffs it would still be reasonable to ask how they may yet still be better…..better manager, eat Lowe’s contract, whatever. Should still be asking the questions.

@Columbus – Heyward has a .372 on-base percentage in September, 2nd on the team behind Alex Gonzalez of all people. Targeting him as the one to sit in favor of Constanza would be benching one of their more effective hitters. But by all means, don’t let facts get in the way of the same old tired Heyward bashing.

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Love Chipper but his comment about liking our chances in the post season against the Phils is probably still hanging in their clubhouse…

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@East Cobb BB, I actually disagree with Chipper calling out Heyward earlier this year. I have no way of knowing that this is true but it is my belief that he came back too soon from injury. If you look at his numbers from April until mid-May, when he succumbed to the shoulder injury, he was very much the player he was last year. After? Not so much. In hindsight, I would have much rather been without Heyward all together for a few more weeks and get the real Heyward back than have what we ended up with. But that’s all circumstantial and I could be wrong.

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You win as a team and you lose as a team. No one person is ever responsible by himself. That is why it is a TEAm sport.

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Here are the responsible persons (in that order).
1. D. Lowe (no need to say more)
2. Prado and McCann for being so awful down the stretch
3. Hudson for three bad starts when it mattered
3. Heyward for the sophomore slump but he is turning it around lately
4. F. Wren for spending so much money on Lowe and Kawakami when at best they could be no. 3 and 4 starters but these signings are roll of a dice anyway.. there is not a GM who has had bad signings.
5. D. Uggla – how often does he strike out with RISP

It doesn’s matter much if you have done well earlier if you can’t step up when your team needs you the most.

I wouldn’t blame F. Gonzalez..he has tried everything he could..The only thing could have been giving Ross few starts in the past few weeks when McCann was so awful or playing Hinske in the OF in place of Prado couple of times. In any case, in the end, it is for the players to perform. At ML level, role of managers is overrated, anyway. How else do you explain so many managers becoming legendary once they get a good team (Francona, Bochy, Manuels).

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I blame our team’s poor eyesight. It’s pretty obvious they can’t see the baseball good enough to hit it.

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@detroitbraves Heyward has a .372 OBP for September? That’s pretty good for someone who looks as bad as he does. What’s your source for that number? Post a link if you can. What’s his September BA? BA with RISP? SOs? RBIs?

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Heyward? Most effective hitter? Um… HUH?

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Should have hired Will Muschamp to manage, he may not know dick about baseball but he would at least have the team motivated to play. Watching the Braves right now is like watching paint dry. Dull and boreing. Play the game like you love it and not like Im just here for a big pay check

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It’s Coach Mark Richt’s fault. Injuries have really taken a toll on this team, but those are part of the game. You could argue that the slumps and hitting coach have been a big factor, but I think the injuries, esp to Hanson and JJ were what sent this team spiraling. They both went down in late Aug and that is when they stopped winning, except when Hudson or Beachy were on…

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Yeah, fire FW first—–McOut is just one more example of another Wren disaster.

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The way i see it. As long as chipper is on the braves, (unless they dump prado) we cant get a young, talented, hitter to play left field. Sometimes you gotta know when its time. Can he still play? heck yea but the consistency is not there. Too injured to play too often.

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Should also mention, so as to not appear to be too much of a Heyward apologist, that his slugging percentage even in September is unacceptable for a corner outfielder. Fortunately, on-base percentage is more important than slugging, if you have to choose, and since the comparison most often made in the comments section is between Heyward and Constanza, the bar for Heyward has been set exceedingly low.

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I blame Speedy Claxton

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@BaseballBuff, looks like we disagree on some stuff but we’re on the same side. Give ‘em a boo from me. I’ll be booing my T.V.

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Fredi has a free pass from me this year. It’s his first year with the team, and we weren’t exactly a juggernaut last year at this time. Everyone forgets Cox finished dead last in ‘90, albeit a much worse team.

Still Wren takes the blame from me. He loves to handcuff the team to risky, long term, high dollar contracts, and but for the strength of the farm, we would be horrible. McCann is also a shrinking violet when it comes to the end of the season and post-season. We need a leader on the field. Chipper would fill this role but I view him more as a coach in terms of leadership. His dominance is behind him, sadly.

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The only way you can blame Frank Wren is if you dissect his method of collecting hitters/players with impatient approaches at the plate and propensities for striking out and not being able to move runners over. But, wait, weren’t they more patient under Pendleton’s watch?
Let’s face it, the Braves have always been somewhat challenged on offense, even when loaded with big boppers, the offense would die in the post-season.
So, it’s gotta be something else, the way hitting is instructed in the organization.
On paper, this team should not suck at the plate.

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I agree – Prado permanent third baseman… and get a semi-decent big bat out in left.

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I would most blame someone not on the list – the owners. While there are certainly worse owners in baseball and Liberty Media isn’t even close to being the cheapest owners in MLB, the fact is that the Braves are a mid-market team with hard financial limits and that makes it difficult for Wren to compensate when he makes mistakes (Lowe and Kawakami). It also forces Wren to do a lot of questionable dumpster diving for players (Glaus, Ankiel, Wilson) in the hopes that he can get some guys on the decline to recapture a bit of their former glory.

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It’s Steve Bartman’s fault. He’s also the reason for the recession.

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Where is an option for injuries. Our top 2 pitchers have missed most of the post-all star break or tried to pitch through injuries during that time. Several of our top hitters have been hurt and never got back in rhythm (i.e. McCann, Prado, Chipper took a while at the beginning of the year (but has been phenomenal lately), Heyward (maybe?)

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@HUH?, I wonder if Prado’s bat can play at third everyday. It played at second but now they have Uggla. I totally agree on left-field but I wonder if Prado isn’t better suited now that Uggla is around to filling the role Infante had last year.

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This makes me feel like watching Hurricane forecast.. for days we know it is coming over our town but we hope it will change direction..until it actually hits us. You feel helpless for things you can evacuate with you.

We have seen for weeks with every projection that eventually Braves will lose out..still kept hoping that they will change their direction and now we are here, right in the eye of the hurricane with the helpless feeling.

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Nut Job: and the highest number of innings pitched of any reliever, not exactly surprising he’s burned out now

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I believe the loss of two of our top three starters coincides with the downfall. If we keep either of the two pitching close to their average production, then that would have set the table to move Lowe and some of his contract for either bullpen relief or a decent right handed power bat rental to platoon with Heyward. That senario easily allows the Braves to cruse into the playoffs, then make the next tweeks needed in the off season with most of the albatros contracts off the books. The goals; 2011 win wild card and get lucky,2012-overtake aging phillies, 2013-kick the Yankees to the curb.

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If we had Franceour instead of Heyward, we might not be in the position we are in. The kid drove in 100 runs 2 straight years for the Braves and in his worst season hit .239 and drove in 71 and he was ran out of town. Heyward isn’t half the player he is. Just so you know, Franceour’s stats with Kansas City this year:
.289 Batting Average (601 ab’s)
20 HR
87 RBI
47 doubles (led the American League)
4 triples
22 sb

And don’t say it’s because he plays for the Royals. He faces the toughest pitching in MLB in that league. Oh and to make you feel worse, he was 16 assits and a .986 fielding percentage this year in right field.

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Robert, Chipper is making 12 million and he is the ONLY one in the lineup you can depend on.

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Milli Vanilli says ” blame it on the rain” hahaha & No I cant play 3rd I bad with glove

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Braves will make the post season, and win!! A fan is only good when he’s cheering.

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“Robert, Chipper is making 12 million ”

As I said, he fell short on leadership expectations by about 17 million

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D. Lowe – For $15M he should be 17-9, not 9-17, that would put the Braves 4 back of the Phillies with the second best record in the NL and put the Wild Card to rest. With Hanson and JJ out, he needed to step up and responded with 0-5 in Sept. Granted he only received 9 runs in support for his last 7 starts, so the bats can share in the blame.

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When the Braves pay Chipper superstar money, they have to get more than a part-time player.

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Wren and Heyward first fand foremost. Wren for not making better player judgement and Heyward for not doing anything to correct his inept swing. Remember when Chipper praised the Phillies GM for his quality trades. Enough said.

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when did heyward hurt his shoulder sometimes before spring training to many players waiting on spring training to get in shape

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I disagree that this wouldn’t happen with Cox at the helm – I think it is very Coxian.

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I selected Parrish in the poll. We’re number three in MLB for the least number of runs allowed, so our pitching is solid overall. However, we rank 21st in runs scored. Of the 16 NL teams, we rank 13th in batting average, and 14th in on-base percentage. Here are the shockers: We’re next to last in doubles and last in triples.

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I’ll be blaming Jeff Schultz, for jinxing us before the season is even over. Is that okay?

In all seriousness: Of the candidates you listed, I’d have to say Lowe. Yes, a starting pitcher only pitches every fifth day, but, the guy has been just awful all year. I dont think Gonzalez will be fired as manager in his first year, but..

Hopefully, we can pull this off, and this article will become hypothetical.

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DetroitBraves:
We were comparing Heyward to Francoeur with production. His batting average, hr and rbi’s far surpass Heyward, and if you want a GLARING comparison check his HR and RBI’s in his first and second and third years. Who cares about the OBP and the OPS if you are driving in runs.

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The pitching carried this team the entire season until injuries took out half the starting rotation. The lack of hitting has been a problem all season long. If it wasn’t for the closers this team would be near the bottom and no where near a playoff contender.

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@Whereisconstanza, homers are nice but RBI are a context stat. Had Francoeur batted 8th he would have been the same player with less RBI. Had he batted 3rd he would have been the same player with more. You should care about OBP more than other statistics by far. It directly measures a players ability to avoid making an out, easily the most important offensive attribute. Homers are nice and a real skill, slugging in general really, but even that takes a back seat to not making outs.

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I blame Jeff Schultz and the fat lady singing tomight.

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11:57 post said Lowe would be good at bartending. Not so sure. He couldn’t slide one down the bar without it being high and outside.

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The Braves of recent memory never have been good hitters…I blame the tomahawk on their uniform. It gives a false sense of the upper limit of the strike zone. I say remove the tomahawk from the jersey. After the Braves teams of the mid-60s did away w/ it, they made the NL playoffs in 1969.

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I blame MLB for allowing teams like the yankees phillies and red sox to spend like a democratically controlled congress and force small market teams to try and compete with has beens and prospects. This system is gross and needs to change- starting with salary caps being established and enforced.

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“I disagree that this wouldn’t happen with Cox at the helm ”

It wouldnt. If Cox were managing, any fan with brains wouldve given up hope the day he showed up at spring training. And right now, we’d be ten games back instead of tied for the wild card.

Ergo – no September heartache if Cox were managing

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I think we are going to see deja vu tonight just like last year, were gonna clinch on the last day of the season and the Cards will lose and we head to the wild card.

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Hey t-plunk – they spend because they are entitled to… what would you AS A RIGHT WING NUT… rather have? A socialist game of baseball with someone telling owners what they can spend?? LOL It takes someone left of you to show what a dummy you are!

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“Wren – It’s the team that he put together.”
“Fredi – It’s the manager’s job to get his team to play better.”
“Parrish – He is the hitting coach.”

What insightful analyses! Of course that’s what blaming game is all about.

I blame September. If the season had ended in August, everybody would have gotten an award.

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What about the lighting? Oh – um…. nevermind

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@Robert, less famously the Braves had similar complaints about Kelly Johnson when he was there and he was a far better hitter before that. Unless you’re Pujols you are going to strikeout some if you run deep counts but you’ll also walk more and presumably get a better pitch to hit in many at-bats. I don’t know why they messed with him and I’ve also worried about them trying to fix something in Heyward that doesn’t need fixing. It’s like they are trying to fix the thing that made him a top prospect in the first place.

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Being a long time Braves fan I am ashamed to be a Braves fan today. To see such an EPIC collapse is an embarrassment as a fan. Who we blame? I voted for Lower because he did not lose 1 not 2 not 3 not 4 but 5 games in September. In all his starts he really didn’t even pitch well enough to give the team a chance to win. Please get rid of Lowe in the off season. I think next season with the rookies maturing Minor, Beachy, Delgado with Hudson, Hanson and JJ we will be better next year. With that said I throw Freddy in a close second for this dumpster fire. He has mis managed on several occasions not inserting pinch hitters when needed not allowing base runners to steal when needed etc. I am done ranting now.. I have lost hope in this team!

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I blame Texas A&M, Gary Bettman and…

Sorry, had to join in the cavalcade of nonsense answers. Have to laugh to keep from crying.

You could blame everyone listed and more for the collapse. Who would have guessed that trading Prado instead of Infante (statistically) would have worked out better for us? Prado is a super-utility player forced to start. The team still needs a power hitting slugger to stick in left. Having one would have covered Uggla during his slump and would be helping now with McCann. Lowe is the million dollar house that now is worth $150,000. We couldn’t get rid of him and get any value out of him, short of an injury (and not wishing that on him). Hanson and JJ have been up and down this year, but them missing time has definitely hurt the team.
As for Gonzalez, he is culpable just as any manager is culpable for a failure by his team in the corporate world. Fair or not, it falls back on him ultimately. But to his credit, he didn’t keep putting people in slots on the lineup card because of their past (though he stuck with Uggla a lot longer than most would have). Bobby wouldn’t have moved Chipper down out of 3 for any reason.

This is payback for that stunt we pulled in 91 when we ran down and past the Dodgers. Thank yous to Boston for not making this the biggest collapse story right now.

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Detroit Brave – I will try to be civil in my dispute with you. So you think OBP is more significant than BA, HRS, RBI, SB, errors made, OF assists etc. Your corner OF guys have to be your power and productive guys(along with 3rd,1st base) in your line-up. Alot of us liked Constanza’s speed game, found it to be exciting and winning baseball! JasonH is just a likeable 21 yr old giant kid, maybe he finds himself but probably he doesn’t. The fact is he is not 1/2 the talent of Franceour and never will be. Frenchy is close, but not quite as productive as Pence(Phillies) or Stanton(Marlins) for a real example. JasonH should not even be mentioned with those players!

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Anyone remember that game against the Pirates where the Braves won on a VERY bad call at the plate in extra innings? Everyone at the time was saying stuff like “what if the Pirates miss the playoffs by 1 game?” (this was when they were in 1st place). Who knew that call would be the reason the Braves still stand a chance to make it in the playoffs and in a tie going to game 162???

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Bobo.

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The Atlanta Journal Constitution is reporting that Kansas City Royals outfielder Jeff Francoeur might be heading to familiar territory in the NL East, albeit with a different team than the Atlanta Braves — the franchise that introduced Frenchy to the Major Leagues in the first place. With a major hole in their line-up against left-handed pitching, Francoeur could fit in well in the Phillies line-up.

There are other contenders to fill that slot, including San Diego Padres outfielder Ryan Ludwick. However, the Phillies already have a major budget and have been told to spend low, giving Francoeur a possible nod as a trade target. Francoeur is earning $2.5 million this season and has a team option for next season at $4 million. Francoeur has made overtures to stay in Kansas City, but the well-traveled outfielder is also aware of baseball’s business-first mentality, so he knows it’s a possibility.

On the year, Francoeur is hitting .322 against lefties and slugging at an incredible .655 rate. The Phillies have been disappointed by Dom Brown’s development in the outfield and Raul Ibanez has been hot and cold all season. While names like Ben Francisco can fill in from time to time, the reality is that the Phils lack an impact bat to help put them over the top. Frenchy could be that guy.

July 18, 2011

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Freddie keeps saying all the Braves need is one broken bat single to get them going. Why doesn’t someone go up to the plate with a broken bat?

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This is just one of those posts to get us involved in whatever nonsense AJC has lined up. Obviously, you can’t pin the blame on one person. Blame is so second grade. Get over it. I think this team was never that good to begin with. If you really need to point the finger at someone, then it has to be Wren. He’s built this mess.

Remember those odd quotes from Chipper calling Lowe an “ace” when they signed Lowe to that god-awful contract? Yeah, that was real smart.

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Keys to success. Keep Gonzalez and just do the opposite of what he says. If he says start Lowe……..then you start someone else. If he benches a player, then you start that player. If he wants to bat Prado second, you bat him seventh, etc., etc.,

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For the month of Sep.
Avg./OBP./Slug/OPS

McCann- .200/.326/.313/.639
Prado- .240/.262/.337/.598
Freeman- .227/.303/.364/.667
Bourn- .257/.299/.358/.657

I blame these guys. For those who want to blame Chipper- .294/.354/.518/.872. Nice numbers so forget it.

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There are two people to blame for position we are in. Frank Wren and Fredi Gonzalez!!

They both stuck with Parrish when all signs pointed to his offense plan was not working with Braves lineup. Rangers made a move early before it was too late so why did we stick by Parrish? I called it back in June saying our starters could not carry this team in September and we should make a move to fix this offense. They did not and here we are. I actually don’t blame Parrish. He is clueless and this is all new to him. It’s Frank and Freds fault for keeping him around so long.

With that said Parrish better not be brought back next year or this team is not serious about winning.

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You dumb-asses who voted for Fredi Gonzalez should be shot.. This is nowhere near his fault and he is not the one that should be blamed. Larry Parrish is the obvious one that should be blamed. Anytime an offense is struggling as a whole, it’s the hitting coach and also base-running errors. I’m just tired of liberty media holding back on spending.. Do you know what we could have done with an extra 60m in salary. Derek Lowe is a waste of space. I knew that last year even when he had that lucky September.. If this Braves team does make the playoffs, is it even possible to get to the 2nd round? Let’s go Braves.. get off your dumps and lets blow the Phils away.. no excuse.. Joe Blanton.. REALLY??

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Wren has got to be the dude. Technically, he hires Fredi, but that might be a little bit of a stretch. He gets Bourn, who hasn’t been the cure all. Constanza gets hurt then struggles for a couple of games when he comes back, and then he’s back on the bench and Heyward is back in the lineup without getting one ounce better! Fredi had raved about Constanza and then he stumps his toe and the struggling Heyward is back in. Now Heyward has improved a small bit, but the Braves were actually winning games with Georgie in the lineup, not so much with Heyward. I gotta believe Wren pushed that move by Fredi. Like I said, Fredi raved about Georgie.

This is Wren’s team. He put it together. He said he had enough. He made his choices and now he must take the rap. Sure the players haven’t performed but Wren signed, acquired or extended many of the players who haven’t performed!

Some will say he did a great job like trading Renteria to Detroit in a deal that brought JJ to Atlanta. Last time I checked JJ has an injury history and hasn’t been around for the end the last two seasons. Sure he shows flashes of greatness, but he and the other Boros client (Hanson) are unable to perform due to injuries that aren’t threatening structural damage to their arms and/or other members. Good ole’ Boros! I’m sure he’s urging his clients to take it easy so they don’t hurt their market value!

That’s ok Tommy and JJ! Part of the reason we’re having this conversation about who should take the fall is because you guys took a dive! Hope both of these guys are on a plane out of ATL sooner rather than later.

So did Wren have anything to do with hiring a guy who had never been a hitting instructor to help these guys with the bats?

Fredi may be the captain of the ship, but Wren is the admiral of the fleet. His fleet is sinking and he needs to be buried at sea with his fleet.

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Whats the lineup for the Phillies tonight?

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@Tom G, you are definitely baiting. There isn’t a scout, baseball exec, baseball writer, or sabermetrician alive that believes any of that. You have jumped the shark my friend and I will not be taking the bait (I shudder to think that you may be sincere).

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I cant see why people are blaming a 2 year player Heyward for this its absurd.Heyward was just fine until pp on this team complained he needs to swing the bat more and calling him out for not playing through the injury.(Chipper and sm of you idiotic fans).It’s crazy for him to call out anyone when it comes to not playing.Also F.Gonzalez needs to be fired, they need someone like Ozzie to tell it like it is but to late.D.Lowe needs to go way overpaid.And if they don’t sign a prominant big bat I won’t spend a d*** dime on them next year.

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Who’s to blame? Two words Braves fans…The Phillies (a/k/a the best team in baseball)…the Braves should petition MLB to move back to the NL West…the Braves just can’t hang with the big boys…So take your tomahawk chop and…well, you know…And if that punk Hudson hits any of our players tonight…the Braves are going to get beat in more ways than one…

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At least when TP was hitting coach the Braves were getting on-base and hitting w/RISP, I think Larry Parish has screwed up a lot of hitter’s approaches (J-Hey and Prado). And the team OBP this season is awful.

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You can’t blame just one person. It’s a myriad of things. Hanson and JJ going down was a start. The Braves as a team not hitting with RISP doesn’t help when the pitching was holding runs to 4 or less. Heyward having a sophomoric slump. Given all those reasons it also comes down to the manager putting the right combination of players on the field. But the bottom line is the Braves had so many chances to win key games these last 3 weeks and simply choked. That 2-run homer Kimbrel gave up to Florida was the telling blow. He looked in shock as he walked off the field.

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DetroitBrave – He has had almost 400AB’s this season. How can a 21 yr old player have constant nagging pains or injuries. He is at the peak of his healthly life. I can understand a 40 yr old 3rd base breaking down not some 21 yr old guy? Back to Franceour(since you seem to like to talk about him), didn’t he play in 162 games his 2nd and 3rd seasons with the Braves? Oh, 162 is the amount of every game in a season!!

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I am in total agreement with CT Falcons and Braves’ Fan. The injuries to Hanson and Jurrjens were crippling. I am just hoping that young pitchers(AAA) aren’t overused to get thru the postseason–if we get there. They are our future. I feel that D. Lowe still has a lot left. He’s 38, but has never had arm issues. Joe Simpson constantly talks about his lack of run support. This is true. After a while, a pitcher tries to be too fine. Even a veteran. Here’s hoping for the best for ALL the Braves!

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Jeff left out the true reason for the collapse – us. The fans. Even when the team was riding high and doing well, how often was the stadium sold out? Even remotely full? How often was the energy from us palpable – either in the stadium or the city in general? No, instead the majority of you sit in front of your computer, ranting and raving like you have some clue how to manage or run a major league team.

Wren? Within the parameters he has to work with, he’s done the best he can. It’s real easy for you to say “he should’ve traded Kawakami!” or “he should have traded Lowe!” You know what? To make those trades requires a willing partner – and everyone in baseball knew exactly what position he was in and wanted to milk it for everything. Not many GM’s would willingly sit two $8m players in the minors.

F Gonzalez? It’s his first year. He’s taken a team to the brink of the playoffs. He’s having to manage around both poor performance and injuries. Like someone said, look back at the beginning of the season and say “you’ll have these obstacles” – would you still expect a playoff contender?

Chipper? At various times THIS YEAR he carried the team. It’s as simple as that. Yes, he’s slumped here and there – EVERYONE has. “Lost a grounder in the lights!” Really? A grounder? It chopped darn near as high as a shallow pop-up – RIGHT INTO THE LIGHTS!!!

Uggla? Yeah, HUGE slump beginning of the year but his power numbers were still there. And his defense? Darn near unbelievable – FAR more than any of us expected. And slump or not – EVERY SINGLE PLAY he played balls to the wall.

A Gonzalez? Yeah, another who got into a slump. And definitely had a lacksadaisacal attitude at times. His defense, though, saved MANY MANY runs.

McCann? Really? Guy is coming off the DL and, also, carried the team at times.

Prado? Life threatening infection . . . surgery to remove it (and a chunk of muscle . . . if I recall, he was starting to get on track right before that.

Heyward? Season long slump, for sure, that definitely didn’t help the cause at all. Not real sure, though, that I’d call it quits on him quite yet.

Lowe? Definitely hasn’t helped much lately, either.

As for the countless secondary arguments – why isn’t Costanza still playing? ‘Cause he’s been hitting worse than Heyward maybe? Overused bullpen? Yeah, an argument can be made for that. An argument can also be made that when Proctor or Linebrick aren’t cutting it, you HAVE to run out a proven pitcher.

I’m just as disappointed as anyone else at how the season is ending. But it’s not the end of the world. By and large this is a GOOD team, one that can definitely take it all when all cylinders are running. The problem, though, is that for far too long they haven’t been running at the same time. And that’s not a manager issue, it’s not a coach issue, it’s not really even a player issue. It’s simply fate or life or luck. We lose tonight and/or tomorrow and don’t make it, so be it. We look forward to next year and some great potential:

A true leadoff hitter
Some true studs pitching
A full season of Uggla hitting like he did this summer (and fielding like he has all year)
Heyward and Prado finding their swings
OVentrel rested
Several million freed by Kawakami and McLouth

Changes I’d make during the offseason?

Use some of the money saved by Kawakami and McLouth to sign Bourne long term
Use some of the money to bring in a corner outfielder
Dump Parish and have Chipper be a player/manager
Dump AGonzalez and use Wilson until Tyler is ready
Seriously consider moving Lowe to the bullpen
Rotate Medlen and Minor between bullpen and starting until one settles into the role

Not sure what else yet . . .

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You have to blame Derek Lowe. He has been awful and should be released tomorrow. You have to blame Larry Parish as well because of the hitting being non-existent. Plus Dan Uggla and Jason Heyward have not been what you expected them to be. Next you need to blame Roger McDowell or the training staff for the pitchers not going deep into ballgames and wearing out the bullpen. If we lose by one game then everyone gets a finger pointed at them. Chipper for losing a ball in the light, Johnny Venters for blowing a lead, Kimbrel for his June struggles and on and on.

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gfc – The fans? Really? Tampa has the worst attendance in MLB and is that stopping them? Come on dude! Gotta come better than blaming the fans.

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DetroitBraves

I coud’nt agree more.

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Just a quick hello to Atlanta…it looks like it might be a little hot down there today…steamy perhaps. St. Louis is enjoying some really nice cool temps, sun shining brightly and a light wind that seems to be lifting everyone’s spirits. We try not to count on the weather…as we’ve learned that can be fruitless and emotionally draining. We’ve also learned not to blame each other for the weather…heck even the weatherman is just doing his best. Sometimes the right play is to just quiet down a bit, realize that ‘it is what it is’ and play the game.

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At least the torture will be over tonight.

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GFC_Cause he’s hitting less than Heyward.? J-H 223 ba is better than JC-313..lol.. coming of the bench once a week is not like starting.

The Buck starts and stops with Mr.Wren and The Manager Fredi G……Both need to go!

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@Whereisconstanza, yeah don’t take my arguing with you personally. I disagree with you and it may be that neither of us will ever convince the other. Doesn’t matter all that much. I just feel that Heyward has taken on a disproportionate amount of blame. A lot of that is the media’s fault for portraying someone so young as the savior. Acutally, in that way Frenchy was also up against it when he got off to the fast start and was proclaimed The Natural. They kind of set him and Heyward up for a fall.

But really, we probably wouldn’t be arguing at all if the Braves actually won a game every now and then.

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It’s ashame that Freddie Freeman, who is younger than Heyward isn’t feeling all that pressure. Thank God for a kid who can keep his thoughts and hitting straight. What an asset his has been.

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“It’s like they are trying to fix the thing that made him a top prospect in the first place”

Exactly. The thing that set Heyward apart at age 20 was NOT how hard he hit the ball. It was his plate discipline. And then Cox told him that was wrong to be patient at the plate. Since then, he is a .220 hitter – cuz pitchers know he will be overaggressive and they dont have to throw him strikes to get him out

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Fire Fredi! Bobby V is out there. Hell of a manager. Fredi has been fired from one team already, he’s not the right fit for this team.

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I’m sorry , but I will have to blame this on none other than George W. Bush.

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If the Red Sox miss the playoffs, they’ll make major changes. And they’ve won two championships with thier front office and coaching staff, since the Braves last won or participated in one. But the Braves will stay the course, and change very little.

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“He’s on the roster, and expected to perform”

Not really. Family comes first. I wonder if Chipper will play today or if he will decide it’s a nice day to go to the zoo with the kids

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@Whereisconstanza, enjoyed the debate. Seriously, enjoyed it and no hard feelings on this end. But I’m out of here. Hope the Braves win tonight despite themselves.

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Fredi should take the blame. He should have considered a 4 man rotation or started Teheran. He has tried to ruin Venters and Kimbrel’s arms. (one of the Washington Nationals annoucers made an astute observation about the number of games they have pitched, “this isn’t a video game.”)

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“Bobby V is out there”

There’s only three names that I can think of where Bobby Cox could engage in a battle of wits and not be hopelessly outclassed

Bobby Valentine is one of the three

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Freeman has played in 14 more games, hit 3 more HR, 4 more rbi’s, hit 13 more dbls and this is for a #6 or #7 hitter that for one was known for his hitting line drives and singles than HR’s and RBI. Plus he just may win the Gold Glove at first base in his rookie year.

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Republicans.

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WhereisConstanza,

You can’t seriously make comparison between McCann and Fancouer. Besides the overall large gap in OBP and positional differences, Francouer has added little to no value to any of his teams since 2007. I don’t hate him or anything, but….

McCann is one of the best players at his position in the league and Francouer is one of the worst players in the league who still good enough to start.

http://www.fangraphs.com/graphsw.aspx?playerid2=4810&playerid3=4792&playerid4=&playerid5=

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“He should have considered a 4 man rotation or started Teheran”

A 4 man rotation wouldve caused the other guys in the rotation to take that much more wear and tear and be that much more likely to break down

Given a choice of Derek Lowe and Teheran, down the stretch I go with Lowe

Derek Lowe has on occasion been able to win ballgames even when he doesnt have his best stuff

Teheran hasnt shown that he can win at the big league level even when he has his best stuff

Having to bet on Lowe was unfortunate. And it wasnt a good bet. But it was a better bet than Teheran

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Matt r: You are the photo of an idiot! Pure and simple, the main idiot on this page. How does it feel to make the most stupid comment on the page? Like an idiot? I thought so.

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Again this collapse falls squarely on the offense. Has D Lowe been bad? Hell yeah but most of us say this coming except Freddi and his blind loyalty. But back to the offense. It’s entirely their fault 1-8. At first I thought it was just bad luck that guys weren’t hitting with runners on base but I realized after the 2nd game of the Nats series that this offense had a “I want to be the Hero” mentality and not a team mentality. Instead of being patient at the plate and look for one good pitch to drive, everyone is swinging for the fences and trying to be the guy that hits the big HR to lift the pressure off. I give the braves a 10% chance of winning tonight. It would be 0 but as a Braves fan I have the same blind loyalty that Freddi G has.

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Ah, stacking the deck is too much work..

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Wheres the Fredi Gonzalas one for pitching Lowe. They absolutely suck eggs. I may not ever watch them again even if they make the dang playoffs.

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Our hopes are pinned on an 105 loss Astro team. Becasue the Phillies sweep us and then as we back into a play off game we match up and loose to the Cards on Thursday.

DEAD and DONE

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Coaches,Coaches,Coaches………….

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Ryan Roberts for Arizona, what Chipper did for the Braves, for less than 500K. So don’t put the “Future Hall of Famer” on a pedastal for this season.

Career is a different story, but we’re talking about this season.

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Mccann sits at 25.1 WAR since 2005. That’s good for second among catchers and 28 among all players during that time period.

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In order:

Fredi
Wren
Lowe
Heyward
Prado
Parrish
McCann
JJ
Hanson

Uggla despite his struggles this season, put up strong numbers overall in the categories that we brought him over here to produce in. He carried us in August.

I think regardless, things need to be looked at and adjusted and perhaps changed in the offseason. This scenario SHOULD NOT BE HAPPENING!

Fredi’s done a real bad job managing in certain spots this year. He’s impulsive and doesn’t think things through. He also allowed Lowe to continue pitching. I think once it got to 9-14, you kind of have to pull the plug.

It was a foregone conclusion we’d lose that game yesterday solely because of him, even if the offense didn’t produce.

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Jeff- you intimate that there is more than meets the casual eye regarding Heyward. Is he getting along or is there personal issues that are messing him up?

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“I write this knowing that there’s still a very good chance the Braves (with Tim Hudson on the mound) will win tonight’s game against Philadelphia (which starts Joe Blanton) and at least force a one-game playoff for the wild card spot Thursday in St. Louis.”

Unless Hudson is going to drive some runs in, the Braves chances are the same as they were in games 1 and 2 of this series.

You can not win, if you do not score!!!

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Go D-Backs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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I was really hoping to see Liberty Media as an option. I’d have clicked them in a heartbeat.

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Theres enough blame to go around for everybody

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I have to blame the cheap ownership of Liberty Media. I’ve blamed them from Day 1. The Braves have been prone to mediocrity ever since MLB allowed those skin flints to buy the Braves.

My prayer is that Liberty will go ahead and sell the Braves. That corporation has done nothing by cheapen a once proud franchise…

Nuff said!

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This team has no fire. Their emotions for the most part are subdued. They play with the same enthusiam that I have when I get up at 5 am to go to work every Monday morning!

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Its called planing ahead!!

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I think Fredi. Down the stretch he kept the same line up (aside from switching Heyward n Diaz.
David Ross played one game recently and had two hits. I’m not saying bench McCann but he’s not himself. Put Constanza in 2 hole or bat him 9th. Switch it up, change things around.

It’s hard to blame Gonzalez for the bullpen, though. The bullpen was taxed because of decent (not overwhelming) starting pitching and the offense was scoring 2 runs per game and we were in a dog
fight every night.

After Fredi:
1. Heyward
2. Lowe
3. Lance
4. Wren

Go Braves..

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Whoever the manager is…………

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Diaz is a vet, maybe that is why he is playing? Or just maybe, if you played Constanza and he went 3-4 and stole a couple bases, you would be second-guessed for the rest of your life for not playing him more instead of JasonH? Just curious about something else – I have not seen Franceour name in box scores of KC’s last 3 games, think maybe something going on? I think KC had a young minor -league prospect playing RF position? I wonder?

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Fred should have gone to a 4 man rotation and left Lowe out in the bullpen. He’s paid to make tough decisions and couldn’t do it.

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Jason Heyward slacks off and should have been demoted to minor league. Prado star power has been sorely missed.

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I will be interested to look back at this team in 3 years. Not counting the rookies who will naturally mature, who else on this team do you expect to be signifigantly better than they are right now?

I think they are what they are. Good but not great.

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I blame the AJC sportswriters. If they had written more favorable articles about the Braves then the Braves would have clinched the WC a long time ago. Fire the sportswriters!

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I am still angry about Frodo starting that overpaid loser Lowe last night.

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To all of you that want Fredi fired, please remember that Bobby Cox won 90 games only once in his last 5 years as manager of this team and lost in the 1st round of the playoffs the last 5 years the team made the playoffs. If you want to play the blame game, look in the clubhouse, not the coaching staff or the upper management. It’s easy to blame the manager, but he’s not swinging the bat or throwing pitches, the players who are making millions are. Let’s break this down. First and foremost, this game is a business and all about money and greed. Secondly, upper management should be blamed for not making sensible trades and free agent signings. The Franceour trade should have never been made, especially with the production that Nate McLouth has provided the team. Right handed hitting outfielder? How about that 27 year old guy in KC who’s hitting .285, with 47 doubles, 20 homers, 87 RBIs and 22 SBs, who’s about to enter the prime of his career. Matt Diaz should have never been allowed to leave after last season, he would have been the perfect platoon player when Heyward started struggling in May. How dare he only drive in 31 runs in 224 ABs last year! By the way, that projects to around 80 RBIs over a full season, and currently only one player has 80 RBIs. So, I guess that half season in purgatory Pittsburgh showed him. Now we get to get to Mr. Lowe. Upper management signs a 35 year old pitcher who has a 54-48 record over the last 4 years to a 4 year, 60 million dollar contract, all because they lost out on A.J. Burnett. So, the “big time postseason pitcher” comes to town and promptly goes 40-39 over the last 3 years, and has started 1 playoff game. Probably should have talked to Warren Buffet about that investment first. Lastly, Chipper, why are you playing next season? I love you man, but c’mon!!! You are no longer the face of this team, you don’t need the money, and this team isn’t going to win a championship with a part-time 3rd baseman or 3 hole hitter. Please change your mind, walk away, and allow Fredi to put Prado at 3rd next season. In closing, Jason, call Tony Gwynn, who had a .338 career average and could hit the ball to all fields. Pay him whatever he ask because it will come back to you tenfold if you do. You need to learn how to make adjustments at the plate and from at-bat to at-bat or or you will continue to hurt this team. You’re not going to wake up one morning and be able to hit .280. If I were you and had your talent, I’d have to have a new pair of batting gloves each week because I’d be wearing them out in the batting cage. Go Braves!!!

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The fact is the Braves are not going to blame anyone for the collapse! This is a country club. They don’t like to step on anyone’s toes. Fredi will be back. Wren will be back. Players who want to come back will be able to come back. Even though a symbolic gesture might be made to look like they are changing by firing Parrish, I would not be surprised if he comes back!

The Braves will look next year very much the same as they look now. You don’t have a historic meltdown like the Braves had and not roll some heads, but I bet anything the Braves will keep their coaching staff, management team and start the media Hype by making Heyward the face of the franchise and try to start selling 2012 season tickets.

And if the fans eat it up and fall for the same old crap marketing, then they deserve what they get!

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@WhereisConstanza ,

Francoeur played on the Royals, who were out of contention mid June.

Look at Melky Cabrera’s numbers this season with the Royals. He had a career best year. .305 BA, 18 HR, 102 runs, 44 doubles, 20 stolen bases….don’t try to convince me that he’s as good as those stats, because I watched him with the Braves last season, and with the Yankees before that.

A lopt of that is the fact that he played on a team that was playing for fun, and did not have the expectation of competing for a playoff spot.

Ditto on Frenchy!!! Next subject please!

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Is Fredi even calling the shots or is he just the guy filling out the lineup card while Wren and company decide the real direction the Braves go.

Example: Constanza=Fredi praised=Fredi benched=Fredi put Heyward back in.

Constanza= Braves won Heyward = Braves cooled off

I wonder if Fredi made the call to get Heyward back in the lineup or if Wren did?

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If Wren had been willing to give up one or even two of the top pitching prospects who offer no sure thing that they will be top winners maybe he could have gotten Hunter Pense along with Bourne. An everyday player for 4 or 5 years agains a prospect every 5th day. perhaps an even swap for Heyward would have done it. Go figure.

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Hope your right Spud. In any event, I appreciate the positive thinking.

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You dont have to blame anyone Shultz. Baseball is a streaky game. The same players and management that built the 10 game lead has had a bad streak and lost it. Some injuries have contributed but you cant pick a person to blame for gods sake!! Sportswriter of vulture?

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JayDubu – Interesting point, Melky and Jeff played on a team that was having a lot of fun! They both had very good years, and I do not believe National League pitching is far superior to American League, do you? Make the game fun again, Braves.

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It’s clearly Wren. The bad contracts to Lowe, Kawakami, Mclouth, Sherrill, Proctor and Linebrink were all unnecessary and crippled this team. There turned out to be better options already in the system and these players blocked their advance. The wasted money could have resulted in a gold plated lineup/staff if spent correctly. The failure of Lowe and the lower end of the bullpen (and the injury to Moylan) resulted in the almost criminal overuse of O’flaherty/Venters/ Kimbrel which may hurt us worse in the future than anything else that happened this season if they break down. Most of the other player failures were due to injuries.

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Would like to see:
1. Bourn (CF) 2. Costanza (OF) 3. Diaz (OF) 4. Ross (C) 5. Freeman (1B) 6. Uggla (2b) 7. Prado (3B) 8. Wilson (SS) 9. Hudson (P)

Just for tonight

Just for tonight

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Actually would like to see that Pastornicky guy in SS tonight

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why didn’t you list injuries to the starting pitching as an option,why does it have to be one person

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The Mets were one of the most poorly run teams in all of pro sports until they fired their last GM. Yes, they look better, the Nat’s are coming along, and the Marlins always manage to put a competitive team on the field with a low payroll. Looking at the way the Braves have been run for the last 20 years, I’d still give them the nod as the most likely to succeed the Phil’s. Pitching, (that’s not injured), can carry a team. Let’s hope all the hype about the young guns that Wren is hoarding is correct.
At the end of the day, it’s a game. Baseball is fun entertainment, and in my opinion, better than most other outlets such as movies.

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BigDaddy Cool – Good post, a lot of valuable info you provided. I personally think we should try to get Frenchy back, he is in the prime of his playing career and has MATURED! But about Chipper, I slightly disagree. He has 14 million on the table for next next, could Chipper, you or me actually walk away from that kind of money, I doubt it. Now if they wanted to pay him 8-10 million to walk away, that might be a possibility? What do you think?

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Scoots: No Chipper or McCann?

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What ever is responsible for offense is to blame. We employed no strategy. Just go up and try to hit, no taking first pitches, no driving up pitch counts on good hitters, no pressure on the base pads. Go up get out, get your glove back on, hope it turns around.

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Freddi G is like any commander-ultimately responsible for his team-no exceptions. Bad decisions are just bad decisions with bad results. Consistency is the key to most leaders and Freddi G has not been consistent. He has been more like Freddi Cox. Left pitchers in when everyone knew it was time to make a change. Over used his bullpen and failed to manage not only his pitchers but his bench as a whole. How many times were the Braves down to their last relief pitcher or their last position player. Freddi was consistent, but consistently wrong. A good experienced manager without the good old Braves ways is needed. A change in attitude is need. Braves need a team manager and not a players manager. Good friends with your players will severely limit your ability to make decisions that may upset your friends. A manager is a leader and not a friend. Manager is probably a poor choice of words–must be why the military has commanders. Managers simply manage and make detailed well documented changes while commanders lead and make decisions. And they never tip their hats to the enemy.

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I think you have to start at the top with Wren and Fredi. Basically, the manager should be the one to try and motivate his players in difficult times as the Braves have recently gone through. Would a manager such as Ozzie Guillen have fired the Braves up down the stretch? Fans will never know, but it’s ultimately the manager’s responsiblility.

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I would say Frank Wren but it doesn’t help that this team basically has absentee ownership.

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Escobar Furcal Francouer ….we need you

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“I blame Bobby Cox. He has set the tempo for the Braves organization, which can’t be overcome in one year. A tradition of standing down when the games matter.”

Gotta agree with this. Maybe it was too much to expect to recover from a twenty year cancer in one season.

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If it were only one person we would still have a lead. However, this collapse belongs to almost half the team. The list of those who have failed miserably is SO LONG. I’ve never seen anything like this.

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CarolinaGent – Speaking of Pense, we should have given up a young pitcher for him, that is what Houston wanted, good young prospects. Then resign him, long term to play RF. If not, try to go get Stanton(Marlins) or Franceour(KC)? Why not that big-booper at 1st base from the Brewers(free agent after this season), can Freeman play LF(he seems athletic enough)? Just a couple thoughts?

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It has to be Gonzalez…no ones stepping up….no leadership during this total collapes…The manager has to do something because, if we could have squeezed out ONE win…..anyway he has to be bolder and should have pitched the young guns and NOT Lowe….

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[...] Schultz at the Atlanta Journal-Constitution posted a piece today titled “Poll: Who should get most blame for Braves’ collapse?” in which he runs through the potential scapegoats, including General Manager Frank Wren and [...]

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how bout the fact that their top 2 pitchers the first half of the season missed the entire second half of the season?

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Fredi: 75%
McDowell:12.5%
Parrish: 12.5%

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Why is Chipper Jones mouth not an option? Downfall began when he spouted off about Philly series a month or so ago not nattering and that Braves would beat them in playoffs….more than a little presumptuous don’t you think

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blowe is the biggest bust 15 million for this sorry ass clown and parrish will be gone

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Play like you are instructed in little league. Find a way to get on base. Move the runner over. When you get two strikes, try to make contact. When you hit the ball hustle until you are called out or ball is called foul. We have very little hustle from any player on this team. McCann as slow as he is, should have on second last night on the ball hit down the left field line. Are we sure this team wants to win?

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