Poll: Who should get most blame for Braves’ collapse?
Here's two of your biggest targets: Derek Lowe and Fredi Gonzalez. (Curtis Compton/AJC)
I write this knowing that there’s still a very good chance the Braves (with Tim Hudson on the mound) will win tonight’s game against Philadelphia (which starts Joe Blanton) and at least force a one-game playoff for the wild card spot Thursday in St. Louis.
I write this knowing that if the Braves get into the playoffs, strange things have been known to happen in postseasons. And, seriously, it’s not like either potential divisional opponent, Milwaukee or Arizona, is some indestructible force.
Loading ...But as the Braves drag a four-game losing streak and 10-19 record over the past five weeks into the Phillies game, here’s the question: Who’s to blame for this collapse?
I’ve got my own feelings on this. But to be honest, I think I’m still in shock over the developments and, well, I’m still processing it all. A column will be forthcoming at some point. For now, I wanted to get your thoughts and post a poll on the topic.
I can’t list every player and team official. So I’ll just list a handful of candidates with a quick synopsis on each.
Here we go:
• Frank Wren: It’s his team. He built it. He made a solid move at the trade deadline for Michael Bourn, who has played well, but the Braves are only 26-26 with him in the lineup. So did Wren make the right move. Uggla looked like a good signing but results are mixed. There’s also the hangover over of the Derek Lowe and Kenshin Kawakami contracts, which has limited flexibility in moves.
• Fredi Gonzalez: He is the favorite whipping boy for a lot of folks. I’m not quite there yet. Gonzalez has made a ton of bold moves: taking Chipper Jones out of the No. 3 hole, benching Jason Heyward, changing lineups, shuffling batting orders. There’s only so much he can do. Starting Lowe on Tuesday obviously backfired in a major way. The flip side: You understand the concern of a manager starting his fourth rookie pitcher (Julio Teheran) in a pennant race. Then again, there’s this: It’s the manager’s job to get his team to play better. Obviously, that’s not happening right now.
• Larry Parrish: He is the new hitting coach. The Braves are not hitting. Many of you folks dumped on Terry Pendleton. So how do you feel about the job Parrish is doing?
• Derek Lowe: When Tommy Hanson and Jair Jurrjens went down with injuries, the Braves just needed Lowe to be halfway decent. Two more wins from Lowe and they’re not even in this position. But now he’s a mess.
• Dan Uggla: He’s back to his first-pitch, over-swinging, let-me-save-the-world-in-one-at-bat habits. Not good.
• Jason Heyward: He has been a major disappointment in year two, and the problems appear to go beyond him just having his swing messed up by injuries.
• Martin Prado: Personally, I think his season has hurt more than anything. Prado was Mr. Everything last season but this year has struggled, had some ailments and never got into rhythm.
• Brian McCann: He’s another guy who was counted on to be a major run producer. But clearly he is banged up. I debated even putting him on the list but he is this team’s potential cleanup hitter.
That’s it. You’ll notice I’m not listing Chipper Jones. If you want to discuss him below, that’s fine. But I’m not going to list him on the poll. I find it crazy that anybody would pin the team’s problems on him. He’s hitting .280 (No. 2 on the team) with 18 homers (No. 4) and 69 RBIs (No. 4). The man is 39 years old and being held together with duct tape. In terms of production, exactly what was it you expected?
OK, have at it. Who gets the most blame for what has been going on?
By Jeff Schultz
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699 comments Add your comment
TomB
September 28th, 2011
1:08 pm
So does Schultz Nancy.
Delbert D.
September 28th, 2011
1:08 pm
I blame Maddux, Glavine and Smoltz for getting too old.
Doug
September 28th, 2011
1:08 pm
Well, injuries should be on the list. For whatever reason, the rotation totally collapsed after the all star break. We basically have Hudson, Minor and Lowe from the 5 man rotation. Lowe has been just terrible this year. Some of the blame has to go to the Manager for keeping him in the rotation the entire year. I mean 9 – 17 record on a winning team. Never seen that before.
The team has no concept of bunting for a hit, or dedicating themselves to going the opposite field just to get on. There is no game plan on how to attack the opponent.
Erick Karros
September 28th, 2011
1:09 pm
I blame Steve Bartman.
Buckwheat19
September 28th, 2011
1:09 pm
How about the strength and conditioning coach: It is pretty clear over the last few years that this team does not prepare well for the rigors of a full season. Too many injuries and tired players.
Also I don’t get Fredi. I have yet to see him get in anyone’s face and do an adequate job of firing up this team. Wow, if he can’t get them excited when the season is on the line will he ever be able to get results? Quite frankly, I would have trouble respecting a guy who spells his name ending in an “i”.
How about Chipper and Lowe. These guys are pulling down the biggest salaries on the team and are veterans, but have not stepped up like the leaders they should be. If they had any guts they would have gone to Fred with an “i” and said “i am burned out–for the good of the team don’t play me.
ATLien
September 28th, 2011
1:09 pm
Mr. Dawg is alot closer to the truth than 99 percent of the bloggers. Fact is, most cities would be happy to have what we have. You lot of whiners, haters and complainers are looking for someone to blame before there’s even something to blame them for.
Ted M
September 28th, 2011
1:10 pm
Fredi has made all the wrong moves, some of them seemed reasonable but they were still wrong.
Fredi has no “feel” for his team. That is his Job.
Its Fredi’s fault no ifs ands or buts about it.
Big Wally
September 28th, 2011
1:10 pm
Overheard from last night’s close door meeting between Parrish and the hitters., PARRISH: ok guys we’re going to do something different, let’s try hitting outside pitches to the opposite field, UGLA: What’s the opposite field? HEYWARD: What’s an outside pitch? MCCHOKE: So I can hit weak grounders to 3rd instead of 2nd? PARRISH: ok this is going to be a long meeting.
Delbert D.
September 28th, 2011
1:10 pm
Maybe someone at the plant laced the Brave’s sunflower seeds with a sedative compound.
Cobb Dawg
September 28th, 2011
1:11 pm
Why are we talking blame in the first place? I thought it was more or less universally agreed that the loss (to injury) of Hanson and Juirjens put too much of a burden on the bullpen and the other (mostly young) starters. Is it possible the team fell into a whole that no one could reasonably expect them to climb out of?
jazzward10
September 28th, 2011
1:11 pm
Teheran would have been my starter over Lowe down the stretch.Where is Wilkin Ramirez,Brandon Hicks,Mauro Gomez,Stephan Gartrell,Cory Gearrin,Jairo Ascensio.I think i would rather have them up than Antwan Richardson.Maybe one of these guys wouldve gave the team a spark.
Larry
September 28th, 2011
1:11 pm
Lowe pitches every 5th day; Gonzalez tries to manage every night.
Gonzalez, hands down!
Cobb Dawg
September 28th, 2011
1:11 pm
Or maybe they fell into a hole.
ATLien
September 28th, 2011
1:11 pm
I blame the city of Milwaukee. If they had held on to the Braves, the whiners wouldn’t have anyone to blame.
Delbert D.
September 28th, 2011
1:12 pm
Blame predestination.
mike
September 28th, 2011
1:13 pm
i still cant understand why you dont start hinske in right.proven hitter. im also sorry to say i believe its over. love tim hudson,but you still have to hit,and folks we just do not have a clue! gotta believe cardinals beat stros again and we cannot beat phillies( again sorry tim,not your fault ).wait till next year !
Najeh Davenpoop
September 28th, 2011
1:13 pm
It’s the offense as a whole that has let this team down. On paper, the collection of talent assembled by Frank Wren should easily have made the playoffs. It’s unrealistic to expect that Wren should have foreseen the majority of the starting lineup underperforming. That is a coaching and execution issue, not a talent issue.
Whoever is most responsible for the offense is the most to blame. If that’s Larry Parrish, that’s him.
jfreak13713
September 28th, 2011
1:13 pm
Players get old and players have bad seasons so its hard for me to blame the players altough certainly had they played better the Braves wouldn’t be where they are today. I blame management! Wren put the team together so he has some blame and Freddie managed the team all year so he gets some blame. Now Freddie can’t make Heyward hit better or Lowe pitch better and he can’t keep guys from getting injured. However, he has got to find away for this team to keeps a 8 1/2 game lead! That is his job and if they miss the playoffs he failed at his job. In my opinion he along with Wren, Heyward, Lowe, Prado, and Gonzo are due blame.
I wouldn’t fire Freddie because the injury to Hanson and JJ along with Uggla and Heyward struggles were not in his direct control but he would be put on a short leash next year! I think he is a good manager but he will get most of the blame.
ATLien
September 28th, 2011
1:13 pm
No, must be Boston’s fault. The team was born there, it must be their fault.
extremus
September 28th, 2011
1:13 pm
I know I’m not alone when I say that even should the Braves manage to sneak into October, my passion for them is dead right now. It’s not that I don’t care at all anymore; it’s simply that this team has given us absolutely no reason to believe it can or will overcome its deficiencies and win the World Series, which if you reach the playoffs is the only goal that matters. You see it in their faces; they’re defeated and downcast, and once the Phillies had the lead last night every Braves batter looked like a guy walking to the gallows. This is not a team that in any way inspires enthusiasm, passion, and certainly not confidence, and yes, they ARE still my team so I can say that objectively.
I don’t blame Frank Wren quite so much (although Kawakami and Lowe HAVE BEEN real sore spots) because after all he has to work within Liberty Media’s limitations (and hey, the sooner the Braves get eliminated the bright side is the sooner the tax write-off ends and we can get a REAL owner in here! Talk about an opportunity for Arthur Blank to buy low when it comes to the Braves’ stock!).
I backed Freddi Gonzalez when he was first hired because there were indeed times when he seemed to get more out of a weak Marlins team than was expected, but in every sense of the word my feelings have changed given his handling of the Braves; things tend to be glossed over and put off that need quick addressing if they ever get dealt with at all (i.e. Jason Heyward should have been in Gwinnett back in May). And Larry Parrish needs to go as well, just as Terry Pendleton wasn’t getting the job done. My hope is that Gonzalez and Parrish will be replaced by a competitive (and competent) staff soon after the season is over. You don’t have an offense this woeful given what this lineup should be able to do on paper without their being accountability and consequences.
As for Lowe, I don’t care if the Braves still owe him $15 million for next season; you seriously want to keep paying him to LOSE games for the Braves? Better to cut your losses and take what you can for him, if anything. Don’t let him back on the mound, ever.
Dan Uggla has indeed confirmed my fears, much as happened with Troy Glaus last May; a long, agonizingly slow start followed by a torrid month…followed by a slow, agonizing finish. He needs to get this fixed over the winter, period. As does Jason Heyward, be it via winter ball and if necessary even starting next year in the minors.
I still believe a healthy Brian McCann and Chipper Jones can be a great asset (and it’s clear that McCann hasn’t been the same since throwing out his back). As for Martin Prado, next season will tell if 2010 was what he’s really capable of or was just an aberration. If the latter is the case, then he’s a platoon or bench guy at best. Alex Gonzalez has his moments but it’s time for him to go; with Pastornicky (meaning another Brave with great speed) waiting in the wings, it only makes sense. Freddie Freeman has been streaky but I can look past that for now since he’s still a rookie; next year more consistency will be expected from him, however.
As for O’Flaherty, Venters, and Kimbrel, you honestly couldn’t ask for much more from three guys as much as they’ve been overused this season. Give them another two or three competent relievers to help shoulder the load next year and the Braves should be bulletproof in the late innings.
It’s kind of bad, but I haven’t looked forward like this to offseason events for the Braves since, oh, probably 1985 (the year the Eddie Haas “era” began AND ended).
sid bream
September 28th, 2011
1:14 pm
I blame chipper’s inane qoutes….
Delbert D.
September 28th, 2011
1:14 pm
Wren has let a certain right fielder’s trade value plummet to zip.
AP
September 28th, 2011
1:15 pm
Atlanta is a cursed sports town!
Delbert D.
September 28th, 2011
1:16 pm
Maybe the players lost interest once the college football season began. I know I did.
Newt Fake Moralist Gingrich
September 28th, 2011
1:16 pm
I blame ever-thang on the left… cause they ain’t as moral as I am
Big Wally
September 28th, 2011
1:17 pm
I blame Chipper for losing a grounder in the lights.
Rick Springfield
September 28th, 2011
1:17 pm
I can’t vote for injuries to the starting pitchers, so the closest thing I got is Derek Lowe. Lowe has been terrible and worse he knows it.
The injuries to JJ and Hanson have a cascading effect. I don’t know what the stat is at now, but at one point we had the most starts by rookie pitchers in the NL by 10 (lowly Houston was second). Given the last month, I bet we’re close to the MLB lead now. All that equals too much pressure on the bullpen to pitch 4+ innings a night and on the offense who is gripping to score runs in support.
I don’t blame Wren because at the deadline the rotation looked pretty good. I don’t blame any one individual hitter but they really do seem to strike out a lot.
Still, it’s not over. I feel good about Hudson being out there. All this pressure disappears overnight if we get in.
ArkyTech
September 28th, 2011
1:18 pm
How do you try to blame one person when the entire team stopped hitting all at once?
ATLien
September 28th, 2011
1:18 pm
Or Wren is smarter than Delbert the blogger, and is waiting on the expected sophmore slump, that just about every great hitter has, to pass. Then comes the breakout year shortly after. Alot of supposedly smart internet people thought that Justin Upton and Matt Kemp were busts in the offseason. How’d that work out.
jerrbear
September 28th, 2011
1:18 pm
I’m in my sixties and have been a baseball enthusiast most of my life. I feel I know the innards of the game better than most people. I’ve been a Braves fan since 1976 and I love them. It seems to me that when you have almost every player hitting well below their career average, the onus should fall on Larry Parrish. After all, isn’t a hitting coach supposed to be able to spot flaws and defects in a hitters swing and work to correct that swing? With so many of the Braves hitters struggling well below their average, Parrish seems inept and useless and the Braves hitters have lost all their confidence. When batters are struggling, one sure remedy is to try to hit the ball up the middle or the opposite way instead of trying to pull everything out of the yard. Freeman….whatever you do….please don’t listen to Parrish. Sorry for rambling on but this is so frustrating. Go Bravos!!!!
Delbert D.
September 28th, 2011
1:18 pm
The question is then, “How can the Braves humiliate Lowe into walking away from his contract?”
jimmya
September 28th, 2011
1:19 pm
wren needs firing to many holes need filling on his team and i dont mean the pitching
Buckwheat19
September 28th, 2011
1:19 pm
Blame George Bush. That seems to work for the President and the Senate…..
johnny fontane
September 28th, 2011
1:19 pm
George Bush. Heck, he gets blamed for everything else.
jimmya
September 28th, 2011
1:20 pm
may its the scouts huh no hitting players
Newt Fake Moralist Gingrich
September 28th, 2011
1:21 pm
I blame Bush because he handed off the great recession to the next in line… and ran up the debt 6 trillion BEFORE the great recession happened on his watch in late 07!
TomB
September 28th, 2011
1:21 pm
ATLien, go away please. We are not placing blame because we are a bad ball club. It’s precisely because this is a good team that we are finding fault. When you do the impossible like this team has done in September, then yea,you starting asking why.
Rick Springfield
September 28th, 2011
1:22 pm
LOWE MUST GO!!
Big Wally
September 28th, 2011
1:23 pm
Send Jeff Gillooly to “visit” Lowe in the offseason.
Columbus
September 28th, 2011
1:23 pm
Always looking to blame somebody. Get somebody fired. How about things happen sometimes. Ask the Red Sox. Ask the doctors of the team pitching staff. The ONLY blame I can see going around MAYBE is the hitting coach but even thats weak because every player has hit good at times this year except Heyward….I would be playing Constanza instead of him tonight and would have been the last few weeks. Lowe cant bend his back? He needs to be doing some serious stretching then instead of whatever else hes been doing! Who has been working with him on that?
JO JO
September 28th, 2011
1:23 pm
I blame the ownership – Liberty Media. They refuse to give this team the payroll needed to compete with the big boys (Phillies, Yanks, Red Sox, etc)
Brave Hokie
September 28th, 2011
1:23 pm
Hows that post-season ticket campaign going, Braves???
Sonny Clusters
September 28th, 2011
1:24 pm
We was going to blame Chipper but Jeff said not to. So, we still think Chipper is the one who has been here the longest without winning it all. Yes, 1995. Let’s talk ever since and all the silly little division flags and immediate exit in the playoffs. Chipper is all hat and no cattle. Yes, he has individual statistics. He takes the team nowhere. Atlanta media have made him the face of the team. Butt face.
Jeff Francoeur
September 28th, 2011
1:24 pm
at least you don’t have me to blame, I tryed as hard as I could!
@ Parkview…
01HAWK
September 28th, 2011
1:25 pm
Frank WREN……………………..He built this YUGO. Bad trades, bad free agent signings.
DLOWE……………………15 MILLION
CHIPPER…………………14 MILLION
UGGLA…………………….12 MILLION
HUDDY…………………….9 MILLION
That is 50 MILLION………………………………ALL that is left is 37 MILLION to pay the other 21 players. The only one justifiable is HUDDY.
If I were a new owner I would release McOut, DLOWE, KAWACRUMMY and take my losses.
ATLien
September 28th, 2011
1:25 pm
No Tom, you away. First, the reasons for this slump are obvious to even the most simple minded unbiased observer. If the if even one of the two injured pitchers doesn’t get hurt, you’re not having this discussion. End of story.
You’re just the typical blogger that’s led around by the media drumming up drama. It’s a young team, with young guys in key roles everywhere, and they got hit with massive debilitating injuries to the rotation at the end of season. End of story.
Go Vols
September 28th, 2011
1:25 pm
Can’t blame a player for being mediocre. You can’t be disappointed in them, even dislike them. I agree 100% that Lowe, McCann and Heyward have failed to deliver based on their respective pasts. Prado has struggled in the second half and that has hurt. No, it could be Wren – for signing some of the names mentioned, plus Diaz, even Uggla who has never been a good hitter (low OBP, low Avg, high SO), though that ignores his good moves (I don’t follow closely, so I won’t pretend to call them out, but I like Bourn for one). I want to say Gonzalez first and foremost. Say what you will about Bobby, but this type of collapse NEVER happened during the regular season under his watch.
Justin
September 28th, 2011
1:26 pm
The answer to this question is simple. OFFENSE!!! You can’t blame any pitcher (other than Lowe) singlehandedly. You can’t win in the major leagues scoring two or three runs a game. It all boils down to Uggla’s hot and cold hitting, Heyward not hitting at all, McCann being banged up and not producing, and Prado not hitting. You can’t rely on a 22 year old rookie and a 39 year old Larry Wayne. I do agree though, if we get in the playoffs watch out! We all know a team can get hot and ride it all the way through the playoffs!
Delbert D.
September 28th, 2011
1:26 pm
I just thought of something: the Braves have a chance to win the World Series this year.
BaseballBuff
September 28th, 2011
1:28 pm
I blame it on the lack of a team leader, a good, confident player who remains accountable and who can lead the way by getting clutch hits and showing everybody else how to get it done. Paul O’Neill, a great clutch hitter for the 1990s Yankees, is a good example of such a player. Chipper, with his lame it’s-out-of-our-control type of excuses is not such a player. And as far as playing hurt goes, Mickey Mantle he’s not.