Poll: Who should get most blame for Braves’ collapse?
Here's two of your biggest targets: Derek Lowe and Fredi Gonzalez. (Curtis Compton/AJC)
I write this knowing that there’s still a very good chance the Braves (with Tim Hudson on the mound) will win tonight’s game against Philadelphia (which starts Joe Blanton) and at least force a one-game playoff for the wild card spot Thursday in St. Louis.
I write this knowing that if the Braves get into the playoffs, strange things have been known to happen in postseasons. And, seriously, it’s not like either potential divisional opponent, Milwaukee or Arizona, is some indestructible force.
Loading ...But as the Braves drag a four-game losing streak and 10-19 record over the past five weeks into the Phillies game, here’s the question: Who’s to blame for this collapse?
I’ve got my own feelings on this. But to be honest, I think I’m still in shock over the developments and, well, I’m still processing it all. A column will be forthcoming at some point. For now, I wanted to get your thoughts and post a poll on the topic.
I can’t list every player and team official. So I’ll just list a handful of candidates with a quick synopsis on each.
Here we go:
• Frank Wren: It’s his team. He built it. He made a solid move at the trade deadline for Michael Bourn, who has played well, but the Braves are only 26-26 with him in the lineup. So did Wren make the right move. Uggla looked like a good signing but results are mixed. There’s also the hangover over of the Derek Lowe and Kenshin Kawakami contracts, which has limited flexibility in moves.
• Fredi Gonzalez: He is the favorite whipping boy for a lot of folks. I’m not quite there yet. Gonzalez has made a ton of bold moves: taking Chipper Jones out of the No. 3 hole, benching Jason Heyward, changing lineups, shuffling batting orders. There’s only so much he can do. Starting Lowe on Tuesday obviously backfired in a major way. The flip side: You understand the concern of a manager starting his fourth rookie pitcher (Julio Teheran) in a pennant race. Then again, there’s this: It’s the manager’s job to get his team to play better. Obviously, that’s not happening right now.
• Larry Parrish: He is the new hitting coach. The Braves are not hitting. Many of you folks dumped on Terry Pendleton. So how do you feel about the job Parrish is doing?
• Derek Lowe: When Tommy Hanson and Jair Jurrjens went down with injuries, the Braves just needed Lowe to be halfway decent. Two more wins from Lowe and they’re not even in this position. But now he’s a mess.
• Dan Uggla: He’s back to his first-pitch, over-swinging, let-me-save-the-world-in-one-at-bat habits. Not good.
• Jason Heyward: He has been a major disappointment in year two, and the problems appear to go beyond him just having his swing messed up by injuries.
• Martin Prado: Personally, I think his season has hurt more than anything. Prado was Mr. Everything last season but this year has struggled, had some ailments and never got into rhythm.
• Brian McCann: He’s another guy who was counted on to be a major run producer. But clearly he is banged up. I debated even putting him on the list but he is this team’s potential cleanup hitter.
That’s it. You’ll notice I’m not listing Chipper Jones. If you want to discuss him below, that’s fine. But I’m not going to list him on the poll. I find it crazy that anybody would pin the team’s problems on him. He’s hitting .280 (No. 2 on the team) with 18 homers (No. 4) and 69 RBIs (No. 4). The man is 39 years old and being held together with duct tape. In terms of production, exactly what was it you expected?
OK, have at it. Who gets the most blame for what has been going on?
By Jeff Schultz
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699 comments Add your comment
Blog comments are retarded
September 28th, 2011
12:35 pm
TDL: “Left side of infield and right field – 3rd base and RF should be big bats”
Except when they’re not:
D-Backs 3b Roberts: .251/19/65/.771
Brewers 3b McGehee: .224/13/67/.627
Phillies 3b Polanco: .275/5/50/.672
Tigers rf Wells: .257/4/12/.774
Tigers rf Ordonez: .255/5/32/.634
I’ve always found the “hitting by position” number interesting. Does a home run count for more runs if it comes from a 3B than it does if a Pitcher hits it?
Jimmy Crack
September 28th, 2011
12:36 pm
I blame everyone and everything, mostly professional hitters not hitting. This is nothing new to Atlanta fans. The Braves have been magnificent in their failure at the plate, even during that 14 year run with world class pitching day in and day out.
I will bet that the Braves probably have the worst batting average of any playoff team since 1991.
I Blame
September 28th, 2011
12:36 pm
THE SANDMAN
Cause the Braves have been put to sleep
I'm with Braves (Always)
September 28th, 2011
12:36 pm
I blame M Bradley
. Any time he says something positive about this team(Dating back to last year), this team plays opposite.
ET
September 28th, 2011
12:37 pm
Told my son couple months ago that Gonzalez decision to not allow Heyward to work through his slump as he did Uggla was going to cost them down the stretch. Found it strange that the rookie of the year runner-up was being singled out in a major way. Moving everybody around in the batting order doesn’t work in the major league because it changes your approach at the plate drastically. You had Hayward trying to be a more power swinger after great success at the 2 hole. Not to mention slew foot McCann in the 3, really? Think he butchered the lineup, not to mention put some favortism issues in place and its obvious this group is confused about their approach at the plate. Lineup should have been Borne, Heyward, Chipper,Uggla,McCann,Freeman,Prado,Gonzalez,(pitcher) for most of the year when feasible. Would have ten more wins and battled Philly for division.
TomB
September 28th, 2011
12:37 pm
There is a lot of blame to go around, but I think the manager is the one to blame for this kind of disaster. Bobby Cox always found a way to take the pressure off the players in these kind of situations, and you can’t argue with the results of his success. There is one other player you missed. Jurrjens. How does a bruised knee keep this guy from pitching? I mean come on now. Players are not as durable as they once were.
Dawesome
September 28th, 2011
12:37 pm
I don’t think you can blame this on one person. In the end the Braves lack of scoring has killed their chances and been the prime factor in blowing the big lead. The inability to hit when players are in a position to score kills the opportunity to win most games outside of continued great pitching with no run support.
The players may be positive to the news media but internally they are choking and they no it. Sometimes in sports in just happens to a team. Baseball is all about continually overcoming failure and it seems the Braves just can’t do it this time.
Brandon
September 28th, 2011
12:37 pm
I blame Derek Lowe just because when I look at the poll his name makes me more upset then the rest.
Dirk Diggler
September 28th, 2011
12:40 pm
Cold bats and stranded runners at clutch times have a long history with the Braves. All share blame.
TIP to J Hey: Try not to get called out looking tonight (at least not twice like last night).
meh
September 28th, 2011
12:40 pm
you can’t really put the blam on any one person because none of them are playing any good at the moment. Hopefully Huddy will step up tonight and maybe we’ll get a little offense and win this thing. Go Braves!!
Bill Buckner
September 28th, 2011
12:40 pm
I blame Carl Crawford.
bart
September 28th, 2011
12:40 pm
Fredi – a manager has the ability (or lack of) to motivate the team thru tough stretches – this was one of Cox’s best traits. This team has clearly lost confidence and it shows itself in the most depressing ways now. There are a host of other problems but lack of confidence permeats the team and they have obviously not been able to overcome that.
That falls on Fredi.
cowboys67
September 28th, 2011
12:42 pm
Can someone please explain why they stopped playing Costanza. With him and Bourne at the top of lineup it was must see tv for a month. I think he got nicked up but the Braves were the most fun since the Nixon Gant Deion Justice days
richie
September 28th, 2011
12:43 pm
How is Uggla on the list but not Chipper? If it wasnt for dan we wouldnt have built up the 8.5 game lead in the first place. My blame list….
1.Brian McCann: Hasnt hit ANYTHING since the oblique injury. A teams “best” hitter should not have to be hitting 6th
2.Chipper Jones: Lack of leadership, sporadic play during regular season, ego to realize that he cant be effective every day player on a consistent basis anymore.
3.Jason Heywards sophomore slump: Just isnt the same guy he was as a rookie. He will come around.
4.Derek Lowe: Partly for his poor performance but mainly for him not to make the needed adjustments (like he did last season before playoffs) to get better and at least be somewhat effective.
5.Offense: we cant hit
6: Freddie G: solely for sticking with Lowe as long as he has.
Brave Hokie
September 28th, 2011
12:43 pm
I blame William Tecumseh Sherman, or a tribe of dead Indians, or whoever cursed all of Atlanta’s professional sports teams…
But I am just not as surprised about the outcome as I once was.
DetroitBraves
September 28th, 2011
12:44 pm
On-base percentages: Uggla .309, Prado .304, Gonzalez .270 (!), Jack Wilson .237, Diaz .294, Schafer .307, Heyward .319, Bourn .313
In September: Constanza .182, Wilson .237, Hinske .240, Conrad .250, Diaz .258, Prado .262, Bourn .298, Freeman .303, Ross .313.
Plenty of blame to go around.
(Interestingly, everyone’s favorite whipping boy Jason Heyward is at .372 in September and the truly awful Alex Gonzalez is (was) having an anomalously good month at .385).
Braves One
September 28th, 2011
12:44 pm
Let’s put a couple of things in perspective…
If you were told at the start of game one of the 2011 season that you would be tied fro a playoff spot on the last day of the season, I feel a majority of us would have taken that option and ran with it. We are there folks. I know…we are going into this with an anvil tied around our neck in the form of a wounded starting rotation, a banged up corps of players and some issues with offensive production.
All-in-all, given the issues with the Braves this year, I am grateful we had a large enough lead to hold off the surging Cardinals. It is far better today to be tied for the WC spot than to be one game behind or even making vacation plans.
The Blame Game…next to baseball itself it is America’s favorite past-time. Why do we adore the game of baseball because of its true team concept, yet when things go south, we pick that team concept apart and try to hold someone or something responsible for the results of the whole.
If the Braves win a spot in the playoffs, the BRAVES won a spot in the playoff. If not, then the BRAVES failed to make the playoffs. Derek Lowe didn’t fail to make the playoffs, Dan Uggla didn’t fail to make the playoffs, the BRAVES didn’t make the playoffs.
That’s not to say you cannot make changes within the team structure to better the team as a whole, but if you win together, you must embrace the idea tha losing will also be a team responsibility. We can discuss changes to the team to improve the opprotunites to win, but dissecting a team after not acheiving a goal to lay blame on a single piece of the whole is not what the game of baseball is all about.
richie
September 28th, 2011
12:44 pm
The reason we quit playing Constanza: He quit hitting
meh
September 28th, 2011
12:44 pm
Bourne should slap around on the ground more and use his speed. Uggla needs to relax and take a pitch or two. I think if these two get it going it’ll get the rest of the line up going.
East Cobb BB
September 28th, 2011
12:45 pm
I respectfully disagree that Chipper can’t be one of the options to blame. He is the clubhouse leader and has obviously failed to motivate the rest of this team. If you can lay blame on Fredi (which he deserves a lot) then you can lay just as much at the feet of #10. This whole “we are professionals and know what to do” is obviously a load of crap. With the respect he has on this team if he decided to light a few people up then maybe we’d see some different results right now.
Aside from blame though, I believe this entire meltdown raises/re-raises some valid questions — Did the Braves blow it with the Fredi Gonzales hire last year? I know Fredi is a good manager, but is he just too similar to Bobby? This organization has obviously struggled in the past few years to get back to where it wants to be and might an obvious change in direction have been more appropriate? Other questions to being to ponder — if the Braves don’t make the playoffs/go home early… then will we see wholesale changes in the off-season? Or, will Frank just see this as a fluke/blame it on the injury bug and only make minor tweaks? Maybe the more important question though… will an individual who would actually care about the on field product step up and make a bid to buy this team from Liberty Media so Frank could actually make wholesale changes if he did want to?
Packer Ed
September 28th, 2011
12:47 pm
Management is always to blame. Who is at Fault? Fredi for pitching Lowe or Wren for not making Fredi dump Lowe? I say both are very poor.
No other team picked up Lowe at the trading deadline, what did that tell one?
What a pathetic franchise, only good at signing and developing young pitchers, limited funds which result in second tier free agent signings that are worthless, can not retire worn out players and destroy even good hitters, pathetic. No wonder the fans stay away.
TomB
September 28th, 2011
12:49 pm
You can’t blame the pitching coach without blaming the manager who hired him.
DetroitBraves
September 28th, 2011
12:49 pm
@East Cobb BB, if the Braves have 24 professional baseball players that aren’t collectively motivated enough to play hard without Chipper’s leadership then they were probably doomed to fail from the start.
pb
September 28th, 2011
12:49 pm
Braves One,
I admire your sticking with the Braves, but you are just making excuses. I don’t care what anybody thought pre-season about the Braves’ chances. No team should blow that kind of lead, and look so pathetic in the last month doing it. Just a sad sight wo watch…
pb
September 28th, 2011
12:50 pm
sorry- should be ” a sad sight to watch.”
RK
September 28th, 2011
12:52 pm
I blame Bert Weiss.
LD
September 28th, 2011
12:52 pm
No way you can blame B Mac! He carried the team when Chipper was out and Uggla struggled….
Paul from St. Louis
September 28th, 2011
12:53 pm
I’m a life-long Cardinals fan, but over the past several weeks I’ve pointed out here several times to all of you pessimistic Braves fans that it is your team which is in the driver’s seat, and the Cardinals who are just hanging on desperately trying to close an almost insurrountable lead. So I’ll say it once more…oops. Never mind. Sorry about that.
Nick N Richmond
September 28th, 2011
12:54 pm
I pick 50% Lowe, and 50% Offense……….this team’s overall best hitter is a rookie….Lowe is not a MLB pitcher, he is a server, and a damn good one at that….each time he heads to the hill, he serves up games on a platter
Howard Dean
September 28th, 2011
12:55 pm
Chipper must retire!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Too much money for a part- time player! Thanks for the good years but it’s time to go!!
DetroitBraves
September 28th, 2011
12:55 pm
@BravesOne – get your point but it’s not the same question. One question is – with 162 games to play and a team with some talent but also some obvious flaws, in a division where they are clearly not the best team, would you be happy with having a chance to qualify for the playoffs on the last day of the season? But the question now is – given that the Braves had a 10.5 game lead on August 25th (and an 8.5 lead in early September) and the second best run differential in the league for much of the season would you be happy with playing a must win game on the last day of the season that may or may not qualify them for the playoffs even if they were to win it? Very different questions with very different answers.
Chad
September 28th, 2011
12:55 pm
Fredi Gonzalez- overused the bullpen earlier in the year- AND Derek Lowe- did not step up with the others were injured- AND the medical staff- for not diagnosing JJ and Hanson properly early on and prescribing the proper rehab.
Jo Jo
September 28th, 2011
12:55 pm
Can blame many on this team… but first and foremost – and the ones who have stunk it up ALL SEASON LONG – are Lowe and Heyward!
McGurk
September 28th, 2011
12:56 pm
Its the fans fault – they voted with their feet down the stretch. Don’t you all know that we won 14 straight divisional championships?
reality check
September 28th, 2011
12:56 pm
Can’t you hear ole Dandy Don singing? “Turn out the lights…. the parties o v e r…..
Kansas Jeff
September 28th, 2011
12:56 pm
I look at two things. First Larry Parrish hasn’t work. I have never seem so many hitters whose head is looking towards the field when the bat is near the ball. Old saying, “can’t hit what you don’t see.”
Second, losing 2 out of your 3 pitchers has been huge. The kids have tried to fill in and you can see their obvious talent but it has worn out the overused bullpen pitching the last 4 innings of these games.
Nick N Richmond
September 28th, 2011
12:57 pm
The only mistake management really made was having Lowe out there every 5th day…..
Jack McKeon’s description of Ozzie Guillen and what a good manager is the other day said it best….
“A good manager is only good because he has good players.”
Perhaps if the Braves offense knew how to hit when runners were on base, this poll would not even be posted…..
Braves One
September 28th, 2011
12:57 pm
pb … You make my point exactly. “No TEAM should blow that kind of lead”. Uggla didn’t blow the lead, Heyward didn’t blow the lead, the TEAM blew the lead. Embracing the team concept in baseball is not about making excuses, its the reality of this great game.
Dumbo
September 28th, 2011
12:58 pm
Blame Wren…as for Chumper….please someone have a pair and tell the man he’s at the end….ask him to retire after this season…take that money, along with Kamakize’s and dump Lowe for his money and go get some people that hit and field. The pitching hopefully will hold up next year, especially if Gonzo Fred learns to let a starter go into the 8th or 9th once in a while and quit using only 3 guys in the bullpin.
DetroitBraves
September 28th, 2011
12:59 pm
No player, let alone a pitcher, is responsible for 50% of a team’s performance. I believe that even in the games that a pitcher starts it has been shown he is only responsible for about 30% of the win expectancy.
This is not to say Lowe isn’t horrible. He obviously is. This next statement is going to get me nothing but grief but Lowe’s xFIP is 3.65 and his WAR is 2.5 (fansgraph version). I was surprised to see that.
Richmond Brave
September 28th, 2011
12:59 pm
I blame Obama..oh wait…sorry..wrong post. I personally don’t feel like there isn’t anyone to actually point the finger and say, “You caused this!” The injuries really hurt us down the stretch and it is obvious too. Earlier in the year when we had a large lead it was fine because, I for one, thought Jurrjens and Hanson would come back. Now we have to rely on guys like Delgado, Teheran and other rookies who are no older than me to come in and play the role of Hanson, of Jurrjens etc. Plus it doesn’t help when your offense is flat pitiful down the stretch because, in my opinion, of exhaustion. I mean how many consecutive games has Freeman, McCann, Prado, and Bourn played in a row without a day off. You know these guys want to win bad and are doing their best, but to point the finger at someone solely and blame them is BUSCH league…..see what I did there? Go Braves, and Astros. Agree 100% (lol!)
Mr. Dawg
September 28th, 2011
12:59 pm
When Cox was manager the cry was that he went to much “by the book” during one of the most successful runs in bMLB history. Fredi proves that he’s not afraid to shake things up and his moves are criticized when worse case scenario is they miss the playoffs by one game. I vote that it’s the fans fault for having so many idiots among them.
Jo Jo
September 28th, 2011
1:00 pm
Dumbo – you just can’t “dump” Lowe for his money – - there’s something called a CONTRACT. And who in their right mind would take him on with that salary? You’d have to “eat” his salary
Big Wally
September 28th, 2011
1:01 pm
Fredi-Cat Gonzalez, 50% – wrong moves, wrong time, wrong lineups, Wren, 20% for Lowe’s and Kawakami’s contracts, McChoke 15% – if he just bats .200 for Sept, they would have been in, 10% Chipper, a double play waiting to happen, 5% Ugla, the most undisciplined hitter in the league.
M'ville Mayhem
September 28th, 2011
1:02 pm
Hey Jeff……Let’s just Blame the entire team.
First…We have 4 pitchers that are not tradeable…Visciano, Teheran, Delgado, Minor….they can’t get out of the 5th inning most nights and pitch well but like rookies. But when this line-up faces a rookie or some pitcher that they have not seen before it is Cy Young re-incarnated. Either let them pitch or get rid of them and get pitchers who can get the job done!!!!!
Second…The line-up is like a bunch of little league ballplayers. What is the RISP avg over the last 2 weeks? What is the batting avg over the last 2 weeks? After the Mets series with 9 to go I said the Braves had to win 6 games to make the playoffs and they have won 2!!!! These players seem to swing at bad pitches or the other teams have pitchers who are imitating Greg Maddux. Look at the overall stats and walks are down, pitches per at bat are low, strikeouts are up and the players all seem to be swinging for the fence every at bat.
Third…Fredi G had stated that he would only use the Big Three if the game was tied or ahead in the game. How has that worked since he stated that? Kimbrel has given up more homers than in his entire career since. Venters is giving up runs at a pace that he will be the next DLowe. and Eric O is allowing runners on base to score where before they were left stranded. Also runners on 1st and 2nd and Uggla up tied ballgame what do you do? Uggla hits into a DP instead of bunting the runners over to set up a better scoring chance. The next hitter flies out to center, instead of the lead…inning over. Play some small ball and loosen up and let the game be fun. Get the opposing pitchers pitch count up a little and hit with the pitch a little. Also Chipper was jumpstarting the offense behind Bourne and then change it back…WOW!!!! That is the definition of insanity Fredi!
Last…The bullpen has been overworked….The Big Three are in the top 10 in appearences….we have rookies out there that are suppose to be the future and you have had no problem throwing them to the fire before why not let them be the innings eaters that you need at this time. There were games that you let get away earlier that would have made the difference now. Play each game with the same sense of urgency needed until you have suceeded. At this point the only thing that the Braves have accomplished is lose an 8-1/2 game lead with 1 game to play and if they do not play better tonite they can pack their lockers up and the bags for winter.
“We Play To Win The Game”, Herm Edwards
I hope the players and Fredi understand that you play to win not to “Tip Your Cap”
Go Braves!!!!!
nique
September 28th, 2011
1:03 pm
I’d go with Larry Parrish and the trainer (Bubba, I think?). It’s been the offense and injuries to JJ, Hanson, McCann, Heyward, Gonzo (while he was hot), Medlen, and Moylan.
Fredi’s managing of the bullpen has no doubt cost them wins along the way, and maybe a couple of games during September due to Venters and Kimbrel overuse, but basically the Braves are unable to score more than 2-3 runs most days. 4 runs is an explosion for us.
I didn’t think we could do worse than TP, but I think we have. I think I’m convincing myself that it’s more Parrish than Bubba.
TomB
September 28th, 2011
1:03 pm
Yea, Mr. Dawg, you would know, wouldn’t you?
Mitchell
September 28th, 2011
1:05 pm
How about Jeff Schultz and Mark Bradley?
PMC
September 28th, 2011
1:06 pm
They went and got Uggla, Bourne…. they have tried to make this lineup viable. They just can’t hit major league pitching as a group. How is the whole team cold for a month?
Nancy Pelosi
September 28th, 2011
1:06 pm
I blame George Bush.