Poll: Who should get most blame for Braves’ collapse?
Here's two of your biggest targets: Derek Lowe and Fredi Gonzalez. (Curtis Compton/AJC)
I write this knowing that there’s still a very good chance the Braves (with Tim Hudson on the mound) will win tonight’s game against Philadelphia (which starts Joe Blanton) and at least force a one-game playoff for the wild card spot Thursday in St. Louis.
I write this knowing that if the Braves get into the playoffs, strange things have been known to happen in postseasons. And, seriously, it’s not like either potential divisional opponent, Milwaukee or Arizona, is some indestructible force.
Loading ...But as the Braves drag a four-game losing streak and 10-19 record over the past five weeks into the Phillies game, here’s the question: Who’s to blame for this collapse?
I’ve got my own feelings on this. But to be honest, I think I’m still in shock over the developments and, well, I’m still processing it all. A column will be forthcoming at some point. For now, I wanted to get your thoughts and post a poll on the topic.
I can’t list every player and team official. So I’ll just list a handful of candidates with a quick synopsis on each.
Here we go:
• Frank Wren: It’s his team. He built it. He made a solid move at the trade deadline for Michael Bourn, who has played well, but the Braves are only 26-26 with him in the lineup. So did Wren make the right move. Uggla looked like a good signing but results are mixed. There’s also the hangover over of the Derek Lowe and Kenshin Kawakami contracts, which has limited flexibility in moves.
• Fredi Gonzalez: He is the favorite whipping boy for a lot of folks. I’m not quite there yet. Gonzalez has made a ton of bold moves: taking Chipper Jones out of the No. 3 hole, benching Jason Heyward, changing lineups, shuffling batting orders. There’s only so much he can do. Starting Lowe on Tuesday obviously backfired in a major way. The flip side: You understand the concern of a manager starting his fourth rookie pitcher (Julio Teheran) in a pennant race. Then again, there’s this: It’s the manager’s job to get his team to play better. Obviously, that’s not happening right now.
• Larry Parrish: He is the new hitting coach. The Braves are not hitting. Many of you folks dumped on Terry Pendleton. So how do you feel about the job Parrish is doing?
• Derek Lowe: When Tommy Hanson and Jair Jurrjens went down with injuries, the Braves just needed Lowe to be halfway decent. Two more wins from Lowe and they’re not even in this position. But now he’s a mess.
• Dan Uggla: He’s back to his first-pitch, over-swinging, let-me-save-the-world-in-one-at-bat habits. Not good.
• Jason Heyward: He has been a major disappointment in year two, and the problems appear to go beyond him just having his swing messed up by injuries.
• Martin Prado: Personally, I think his season has hurt more than anything. Prado was Mr. Everything last season but this year has struggled, had some ailments and never got into rhythm.
• Brian McCann: He’s another guy who was counted on to be a major run producer. But clearly he is banged up. I debated even putting him on the list but he is this team’s potential cleanup hitter.
That’s it. You’ll notice I’m not listing Chipper Jones. If you want to discuss him below, that’s fine. But I’m not going to list him on the poll. I find it crazy that anybody would pin the team’s problems on him. He’s hitting .280 (No. 2 on the team) with 18 homers (No. 4) and 69 RBIs (No. 4). The man is 39 years old and being held together with duct tape. In terms of production, exactly what was it you expected?
OK, have at it. Who gets the most blame for what has been going on?
By Jeff Schultz
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699 comments Add your comment
bill
September 28th, 2011
8:51 pm
teams r pounding freeman inside and he is helpless to hit that pitch
bill
September 28th, 2011
8:59 pm
uggla did noy go all out from the get go on th wilson hit thats why he was out what the hell was he thinking
dude
September 28th, 2011
9:26 pm
What a gutless article, Must be Obama.
Professor Moriarty
September 28th, 2011
9:28 pm
I blame the Braves’ corporate environment. It’s like IBM — buttoned down, but without the imagination or creativity. And I blame the media for not holding management (including Fredi) responsible.
confusabrave
September 28th, 2011
9:28 pm
Must be George Bush’s fault.
sunny purdue
September 28th, 2011
9:31 pm
Clearly it is Mark Bradley. He predicted a playoff spot a month ago.
IKnow
September 28th, 2011
10:29 pm
Mr. Bug, Mr. I. N. Jury Bug…
bravo bravos
September 28th, 2011
10:45 pm
No one player or person is responsible for this collapse. It is a collective team collapse. The very poor clutch hitting is the primary culprit.
TechRon
September 28th, 2011
10:53 pm
Jeff, good list. I cannot blame Uggla at all. He has done all he can. He is our only legit power hitter and has busted ass and played great defense. Everyone else on that list is culpable and I think the Braves should clean house. Definitely fire the whole coaching staff and then move as many position players as possible. Even McCann. Keep all the pitchers except for Lowe. I know he has a contract and no one will want him, but only a complete idiot (like Gonzalez) would keep sending him out there when he obviously has got nothing.
For Braves ownership: You have completely lost me. I have been a Braves fan since 1957. I have hung on through the bad times, but this is the all time low. You cannot reward Gonzalez with continued employment. Same for the rest of the “coaching staff.”
Kelvin Frazier
September 28th, 2011
11:08 pm
The bullpen has been overused and too many guys have had terrible years at the plate. In particular, Heyward, Uggla for three months, Prado, and Gonzalez. The Braves lineup doesn’t scare anybody.
the truth...
September 28th, 2011
11:30 pm
Done in 13…..Linebrink losing pitcher…..
fitting….
extremus
September 28th, 2011
11:43 pm
Okay, now that this unpleasant business is over, it’s HEAD-ROLLING TIME!!!!!
Really?
September 28th, 2011
11:44 pm
Frankly, they didn’t deserve to go to the post season. It ends well enough. Maybe the bad taste in the mouth of fans will resonate in the dugout and be a lesson remembered far into the future. What a collapse of epic portions. They will be talking about this season for years to come.
Barry
September 28th, 2011
11:48 pm
BRAVES JUST LOST…GOOD RIDDANCE. One less disappointment to worry about. Now I can focus all may disappointment and anger on the Falcons becasue they will surely be the next to disappoint. I’ve already given up on the Dawgs.
LameLanta
September 28th, 2011
11:50 pm
Pathetic…..brutal….not once this month did these Braves hitters shorten their swings to keep the ball in play instead of hacking at garbage and stranding runners….no hit and runs, nothing….terible lack of coaching and discipline…Maybe these Braves will realize that “urgency” should be taken more seriously earlier in the season….embarrased to be a Braves fan…most frustrating month ever
yearofthedawg
September 28th, 2011
11:51 pm
I blame AJC sportswriters. IF they had written better articles the Braves would have won the division.
Lowcountry Jacket
September 28th, 2011
11:52 pm
One winning team in Atlanta… playing most Saturdays at Grant Field!
Evan
September 28th, 2011
11:54 pm
Derek Lowe should have been gone after last season. However, although I’m not usually one to call out coaches/managers when all goes bad, I think most of the blame should fall on Gonzalez. In fact, I would go so far as to say that he should get his walking papers. This team was too talented to let this happen. The collapse was monumentally bad, but the season as a whole was really not that great despite almost making the playoffs. Nothing ever got fixed and was held together mainly by a good bullpen – and then the bullpen collapsed.
Bravehomey
September 28th, 2011
11:55 pm
I think the Magnolia Tree at the old former ATL Crackers Ball Park property off Ponce de Leon just died.
Klaus
September 28th, 2011
11:57 pm
The Braves will enter 2012 with the same needs they have had for years. A reliable slugger in LF who can hit 110 RBIs and 35 HRs and a SS who can hit. We need power RBI guys not solo shot dudes like Uggla or all glove guys like Gonzo.
Yet another Braves team devoid of a 100+ RBI guy and we wonder why the movie ends the same way year after year.
But saying we need player X and we will be fine is a folly (look how well they did after getting Bourne – “we need speed and a leadoff guy and everything will be fine”, right).
For long time fans we know the root cause of this mess is ownership & the FO.
Until the brain trust of Liberty, McGuirk, JS and Wren/FG gets the keys this org will over promise and under achieve.
The system is broken and devoid of new ideas. Pitching, we are about pitching – says Wren. Why “well because it worked before..” Nice. That all you got?
“Before” is not tomorrow and the NL East no longer the punching bag for the Braves it was for 15 years. You need solid to very good pitching yes but you also need reliable/situational hitting and more than one guy with 100 RBI pop. The Braves have none of the latter items.
Budgets and their misuse coupled with staring longly at the past success of Smotlz, Glavine and Maddux is getting this team further not closer to success.
Their pitchers cannot go more than 6 innings across the board. Very few complete games, very few shut outs. If Venters or Kimbrel went down for the season back in July the Braves would be 10 games back in the WC b/c there is no hitting and none of the starters can pitch deep into games.
That is conditioning, how you bring up players through the minors and how you select players. This is about having a plan or design center versus cobbling together spare parts and relying on rookies to carry the team.
The Braves will be on a wash, rinse repeat mode of the 2009-2011 seasons until the head of this mess is lopped off for good. Good enough to get your hopes up but unable to seal the deal.
New owner, new FO, new standards and a new approach to baseball. Mediocrity attracts more mediocrity and we have that in spades in ATL. Yes a few bright spots – the FF, Kimbrel, Venters,Delgado but more offensive flops or middling players.
But Wren will blame this collapse on JJ and Hanson getting hurt and pat himself on the back for not trading Minor for a LF slugger.
He will do I told you so on keeping all his pitchers and most fans will fall in line saying yes sir. Tactically he would be right, strategically he would be dead wrong.
Now the most we can hope for is trading for Quentin in the off season which will be another lurch forward but not a put you over the top move. And Braves fans will yet again have to wait for next year.
How many next year’s does this leadership deserve? Honestly can MLB think Liberty is good for the Braves.
eddie
September 28th, 2011
11:57 pm
i blame liberty media for not allowing the braves to spend more money to fill the offense
Anthony
September 28th, 2011
11:57 pm
I think that because of the schedule, the Braves can catch the Phillies…
Anthony
September 28th, 2011
11:58 pm
and as Chipper said, the Phillies don’t scare the Braves
Frumpy
September 29th, 2011
12:02 am
i blame the hurricane, havnt been the same since, lol.
Frumpy
September 29th, 2011
12:02 am
redsox may have just outdone our choke
ATLER (Ramblin Wreck)
September 29th, 2011
12:03 am
This poll is straight BS!!!!! That’s what’s wrong with Atlanta now. Trying to point out one person is wrong. One person can’t play all position at once. The writers at AJC SUCK!!!!!!! Except Ken Sugiura on the GaTech blogs.
superiorblogman
September 29th, 2011
12:07 am
Try to get Chipper to retire
Trade Uggla along with Lowe in a package deal. You have to take Lowe if you want Uggla and we need 3 or 4 players in this trade.
Fire Freddie G
Call up everyone worth a damn from the minors and call it a day. We aren’t going to win anything worth talking about anytime soon so we need to really start developing our young players instead of talking this history mess, give them a real chance to provide some history.
We aren’t selling any tickets anyway so why care about trying to save face, make the playoffs and get ousted in the 1st.
Next years lineup on the cheap
CF Constanza
RF Heyward
1B Freddie Freeman
C McCann
SS call up
2B call up or whoever you get from the Uggla/Lowe trade
LF call up
3B call up or whoever you get from the Uggla/Lowe trade
TheAntiMe
September 29th, 2011
12:10 am
I blame whoever thought that losers like Lose-brink, Proctor, and Sherrill were going to be able to stop the Braves from losing.
Yum Yums
September 29th, 2011
12:13 am
Can we trade Lowe for a bag of baseballs this off season
jharris
September 29th, 2011
12:13 am
This hurts as a Braves fan, but would you rather have a collapse in the regular season or a collapse in the postseason like Braves did in the 1991 World Series or the 1996 World Series? The 1996 World Series was horrible to go through. I believe they hit a wall and had too many injuries. I would not play Chipper everyday, sorry, but I wouldn’t. I would shop for a big bat. I would have rather seen Wren go after Pence or Beltran to boost the line up. This team may fall deep into futility next year because the Phillies will be strong, the Nationals are on the rise, Florida will have a new stadium. The Phillies are a superior team and should win it all.
TexasRose
September 29th, 2011
12:15 am
@AlaskaDawg – are you unable to get the baseball package MLB on your cable or satellite TV or the MLB.com on your computer? I live in Texas and buy the MLB package on my digital cable package every year. I miss FREE TBS games!!!
TheAntiMe
September 29th, 2011
12:15 am
Actually, I blame myself for thinking that this team had even a pico-gram of heart and that they could keep from blowing a 10.5 game lead in just over a month. Ladies and Gentlemen, your Atlanta Braves – please give a hand to sports all-time spineless chokers.
By the way, what time does the parade start?
Arx
September 29th, 2011
12:17 am
this has to go to the top… to the ownership that has not really invested in the talent the way it was in the 1990s. Poop rolls down hill but blame climbs to the top. The result is that the fans don’t get a post season and the front office saved money.
dachino860
September 29th, 2011
12:19 am
i vote the “fans” on this blog, always bringin’ the bad vibes about a team that was doing so well, always nit picking… every team has their problems, but guys on here make mountains out of here. I’m tiredof reading day in and day, the constant bitchin’ that goes onhere. you guys make it no fun to be a fan. most of you are a bunch of douche bags actually… but if i had to vote…
I’d have to say d lowe, everysince that guy got caught with a dui, he’s been very inconsistent… and as for dan uggla, he can’t be blamed for this you idiots, he carried the team in the second half as others were struggling. i’m out of this blog, you f@ckers think the games so easy and you know all the answers… get real. there’s my rant for the year. i’m out. peace.
LameLanta
September 29th, 2011
12:19 am
Watching Braves Live! excuse this collossal choke maybe more brutal watching than the Braves in September
Kelly
September 29th, 2011
12:27 am
Fredi and Parrish have got to go. The latter has shown absolutely no sign he is able to help our hitters get out of a horrible funk. And Fredi, while he has some admirable qualities, made too many mistakes over the course of the year AND is ultimately the one responsible for righting the ship. He failed. Exit stage right, please.
As much as I dislike Lowe, the fact is Fredi has some responsibility for that as well. It was clear to just about everyone Lowe was done, but Fredi ran him out there anyway. What is Lowe supposed to do? Say “I’m awful, please remove me from the rotation!”? That’s on the manager.
Blazer
September 29th, 2011
12:28 am
A true leader doesn’t allow a team to collapse like this. The manager must go, sorry Fredi. Take Lowe with you. And call the termite exterminator for the bat rack on the way out.
mullking
September 29th, 2011
12:30 am
Michael Jackson’s doctor is to blame .
GT MAN
September 29th, 2011
12:35 am
Thank you Phillies !!!!!, no more stupid war chant every time braves bat, again, thank you Phillies!!!
Rio
September 29th, 2011
12:43 am
WHITEY CANT F HIT I HOPE THEY ALL DIE
LIEZZ
September 29th, 2011
12:44 am
I WANT MY MONEY BACK
LIEZZ
September 29th, 2011
12:45 am
I BLAME DOB THE MOST IDIOTIC WRITER EVER U HEAR ME DOB WORTHLESS !@#!!!
B H Obama
September 29th, 2011
12:46 am
I blame George Bush
LIEZ
September 29th, 2011
12:47 am
NOW YOU CAN ALL TURN YOUR ATTENTION TO UGA AND THOSE F FALCONS BOTHER LOSERS IN A REDNECK DRUNK CITY
Blueland Warrior
September 29th, 2011
12:47 am
I BLAME OBAMA!
LIZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
September 29th, 2011
12:49 am
TheAntiMe
September 29th, 2011
12:10 am
WHY DONT U GO JUMP OFF A BRIDGE YOU WONT BE MISSED
REDNECK
blackdog
September 29th, 2011
12:50 am
CHOKE!!!
LIZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
September 29th, 2011
12:51 am
dachino860
September 29th, 2011
12:19 am
GO JOIN HIM ON THE BRIDGE………LOSER AND GO WATCH THE FALCONS CHOKE AS ALWAYS
Noholdsbarred
September 29th, 2011
1:02 am
Glad it’s over . . . . too painful to watch! I think the manager has to shoulder the majority of the blame because it’s his job to get the right guys on the field that produce. No player should ever feel he owns a certain position just because he has been there the longest–STOP PLAYING FAVORITES–play whoever is performing at the highest level. When players feel they are getting bad calls, the manager should put up an argument to show HIS SUPPORT–not sit on his fat a—zz like nothing happened. If a player fails to hustle, call him on the carpet–STOP sugar coating comments and above all making STUPID excuses. Yes, it’s mostly on Freddie G for not taking charge and being the MAN the guys look up to for leadership. He gives the impression he doesn’t want to be that MAN . . . also has to re-evaluate his coaching staff. NO BUDDIES–just COACHES that can coach and help players be better players.
ChopChamps95
September 29th, 2011
1:09 am
I won’t lie, I was one of many trashing Pendleton last year. But as they say, hindsight is 20/20. Pendleton was bad last year, but he make Larry Parrish look like Don Baylor.