Poll: Who should get most blame for Braves’ collapse?
Here's two of your biggest targets: Derek Lowe and Fredi Gonzalez. (Curtis Compton/AJC)
I write this knowing that there’s still a very good chance the Braves (with Tim Hudson on the mound) will win tonight’s game against Philadelphia (which starts Joe Blanton) and at least force a one-game playoff for the wild card spot Thursday in St. Louis.
I write this knowing that if the Braves get into the playoffs, strange things have been known to happen in postseasons. And, seriously, it’s not like either potential divisional opponent, Milwaukee or Arizona, is some indestructible force.
Loading ...But as the Braves drag a four-game losing streak and 10-19 record over the past five weeks into the Phillies game, here’s the question: Who’s to blame for this collapse?
I’ve got my own feelings on this. But to be honest, I think I’m still in shock over the developments and, well, I’m still processing it all. A column will be forthcoming at some point. For now, I wanted to get your thoughts and post a poll on the topic.
I can’t list every player and team official. So I’ll just list a handful of candidates with a quick synopsis on each.
Here we go:
• Frank Wren: It’s his team. He built it. He made a solid move at the trade deadline for Michael Bourn, who has played well, but the Braves are only 26-26 with him in the lineup. So did Wren make the right move. Uggla looked like a good signing but results are mixed. There’s also the hangover over of the Derek Lowe and Kenshin Kawakami contracts, which has limited flexibility in moves.
• Fredi Gonzalez: He is the favorite whipping boy for a lot of folks. I’m not quite there yet. Gonzalez has made a ton of bold moves: taking Chipper Jones out of the No. 3 hole, benching Jason Heyward, changing lineups, shuffling batting orders. There’s only so much he can do. Starting Lowe on Tuesday obviously backfired in a major way. The flip side: You understand the concern of a manager starting his fourth rookie pitcher (Julio Teheran) in a pennant race. Then again, there’s this: It’s the manager’s job to get his team to play better. Obviously, that’s not happening right now.
• Larry Parrish: He is the new hitting coach. The Braves are not hitting. Many of you folks dumped on Terry Pendleton. So how do you feel about the job Parrish is doing?
• Derek Lowe: When Tommy Hanson and Jair Jurrjens went down with injuries, the Braves just needed Lowe to be halfway decent. Two more wins from Lowe and they’re not even in this position. But now he’s a mess.
• Dan Uggla: He’s back to his first-pitch, over-swinging, let-me-save-the-world-in-one-at-bat habits. Not good.
• Jason Heyward: He has been a major disappointment in year two, and the problems appear to go beyond him just having his swing messed up by injuries.
• Martin Prado: Personally, I think his season has hurt more than anything. Prado was Mr. Everything last season but this year has struggled, had some ailments and never got into rhythm.
• Brian McCann: He’s another guy who was counted on to be a major run producer. But clearly he is banged up. I debated even putting him on the list but he is this team’s potential cleanup hitter.
That’s it. You’ll notice I’m not listing Chipper Jones. If you want to discuss him below, that’s fine. But I’m not going to list him on the poll. I find it crazy that anybody would pin the team’s problems on him. He’s hitting .280 (No. 2 on the team) with 18 homers (No. 4) and 69 RBIs (No. 4). The man is 39 years old and being held together with duct tape. In terms of production, exactly what was it you expected?
OK, have at it. Who gets the most blame for what has been going on?
By Jeff Schultz
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699 comments Add your comment
swimdawg68
September 28th, 2011
5:09 pm
If Lowe is a part of our roster next year somebody needs to be FIRED!
Scoots
September 28th, 2011
5:12 pm
Would like to see:
1. Bourn (CF) 2. Costanza (OF) 3. Diaz (OF) 4. Ross (C) 5. Freeman (1B) 6. Uggla (2b) 7. Prado (3B) 8. Wilson (SS) 9. Hudson (P)
Just for tonight
Just for tonight
Mikey
September 28th, 2011
5:12 pm
gbal: I think 17 losses by a pitcher on a team in contention all season is a good place to start!
Scoots
September 28th, 2011
5:13 pm
Actually would like to see that Pastornicky guy in SS tonight
benchwarmer
September 28th, 2011
5:16 pm
Ya gotta play Heyward, ya gotta play Lowe. Want to know why? Money.
leelee
September 28th, 2011
5:17 pm
why didn’t you list injuries to the starting pitching as an option,why does it have to be one person
TampaRays/Bravesfan
September 28th, 2011
5:18 pm
Lack of clutch hitting. How many times we had the bases loaded and did not score. Guys refusing to take a key bases on ball and swinging at bad pitches in key situation. In other words, Larry Parrish (and I thought T.P. was bad!!)
Spud
September 28th, 2011
5:18 pm
The Mets were one of the most poorly run teams in all of pro sports until they fired their last GM. Yes, they look better, the Nat’s are coming along, and the Marlins always manage to put a competitive team on the field with a low payroll. Looking at the way the Braves have been run for the last 20 years, I’d still give them the nod as the most likely to succeed the Phil’s. Pitching, (that’s not injured), can carry a team. Let’s hope all the hype about the young guns that Wren is hoarding is correct.
At the end of the day, it’s a game. Baseball is fun entertainment, and in my opinion, better than most other outlets such as movies.
leelee
September 28th, 2011
5:20 pm
last time i looked it is a team sport
Tom G
September 28th, 2011
5:20 pm
BigDaddy Cool – Good post, a lot of valuable info you provided. I personally think we should try to get Frenchy back, he is in the prime of his playing career and has MATURED! But about Chipper, I slightly disagree. He has 14 million on the table for next next, could Chipper, you or me actually walk away from that kind of money, I doubt it. Now if they wanted to pay him 8-10 million to walk away, that might be a possibility? What do you think?
pat
September 28th, 2011
5:21 pm
Is it the curse of the Ted? We haven’t won anything significant since we moved there….Maybe it’s the Jane Fonda Curse. If we put her up as a pin up girl all would be forgiven.
Still I blame liberty media, the team reflects it’s ownership. We got one that could care less.
Chipper needs to retire, he just isn’t good anymore….Hell, he’s barely average.
Mikey
September 28th, 2011
5:21 pm
Scoots: No Chipper or McCann?
Garcia
September 28th, 2011
5:21 pm
Lowe makes more money than Freddy. His contract blocks significant acquisitions. Freddy should have able to count on two more wins from Lowe.
pat
September 28th, 2011
5:23 pm
What ever is responsible for offense is to blame. We employed no strategy. Just go up and try to hit, no taking first pitches, no driving up pitch counts on good hitters, no pressure on the base pads. Go up get out, get your glove back on, hope it turns around.
pat
September 28th, 2011
5:25 pm
Everybody on the team is struggling. To much blame to go around….
Bro
September 28th, 2011
5:25 pm
Freddi G is like any commander-ultimately responsible for his team-no exceptions. Bad decisions are just bad decisions with bad results. Consistency is the key to most leaders and Freddi G has not been consistent. He has been more like Freddi Cox. Left pitchers in when everyone knew it was time to make a change. Over used his bullpen and failed to manage not only his pitchers but his bench as a whole. How many times were the Braves down to their last relief pitcher or their last position player. Freddi was consistent, but consistently wrong. A good experienced manager without the good old Braves ways is needed. A change in attitude is need. Braves need a team manager and not a players manager. Good friends with your players will severely limit your ability to make decisions that may upset your friends. A manager is a leader and not a friend. Manager is probably a poor choice of words–must be why the military has commanders. Managers simply manage and make detailed well documented changes while commanders lead and make decisions. And they never tip their hats to the enemy.
Carolina Gent
September 28th, 2011
5:30 pm
There is clearly enough blame to go around (and around and around). Wren was over-optimistic when building this team in spring training and when getting beat out by the Philllies for Hunter Pence at the trading deadline. Fredi G has kept putting out way under-performing players during the stretch run (see McCann, Heyward, Chipper, Lowe among others). Everyone in the lineup has gotten waaayyy too tight the last month, while jumping at pitches and trying to hit 8-run homers. Bourn has disappointed since coming over. Prado has under-performed all year, compared to last. But which is the real Prado? Chipper’s value is greatly diminished and even he has suffered coming down the stretch. Uggla’s comparison to Glaus with better knees seems apt. TP got a lot of blame for ineffective offense last year as should Parrish this year. Lowe has been a HUGE disappointment. The bullpen has been overworked and the loss of Moylan and Medlen for the season can’t be ignored. Certainly losing Jurjens and Hanson has increased the workload of Minor and Delgado who have performed admirably but not exceptionally. Seems like McDowell gets his share, too. So, in my view, it has been a systemic failure, across-the-board, instead of one particular Brave to get the finger point.
tennisbrave
September 28th, 2011
5:31 pm
I think you have to start at the top with Wren and Fredi. Basically, the manager should be the one to try and motivate his players in difficult times as the Braves have recently gone through. Would a manager such as Ozzie Guillen have fired the Braves up down the stretch? Fans will never know, but it’s ultimately the manager’s responsiblility.
CJ
September 28th, 2011
5:31 pm
We have to point fingers and place blame. The team is missing 2 quality starters and the offense has not been a whole lot to talk about. But why place blame on an individual? It is a team effort therefore it is a team collapse. Nice try in trying to find a scapegoat, once again I admire your knowledge of baseball but it fails to make sense in pointing the finger at one person. Give me a break Schultz!
dawg4u
September 28th, 2011
5:35 pm
I would say Frank Wren but it doesn’t help that this team basically has absentee ownership.
LakeDawg
September 28th, 2011
5:42 pm
I blame Bobby Cox. He has set the tempo for the Braves organization, which can’t be overcome in one year. A tradition of standing down when the games matter.
atlbraves
September 28th, 2011
5:48 pm
Escobar Furcal Francouer ….we need you
roark
September 28th, 2011
5:48 pm
clearly jack wilson…
Robert
September 28th, 2011
5:49 pm
“I blame Bobby Cox. He has set the tempo for the Braves organization, which can’t be overcome in one year. A tradition of standing down when the games matter.”
Gotta agree with this. Maybe it was too much to expect to recover from a twenty year cancer in one season.
W
September 28th, 2011
5:52 pm
why not blame me?
Rilo
September 28th, 2011
5:54 pm
If it were only one person we would still have a lead. However, this collapse belongs to almost half the team. The list of those who have failed miserably is SO LONG. I’ve never seen anything like this.
JCH
September 28th, 2011
5:54 pm
Fredi G. owns this one. They’re his coaches, his players, he sets line-ups, rotations, bullpen use….etc. It’s his team good or bad.
To paraphrase “W”, “he’s the decider”
Tom G
September 28th, 2011
5:55 pm
CarolinaGent – Speaking of Pense, we should have given up a young pitcher for him, that is what Houston wanted, good young prospects. Then resign him, long term to play RF. If not, try to go get Stanton(Marlins) or Franceour(KC)? Why not that big-booper at 1st base from the Brewers(free agent after this season), can Freeman play LF(he seems athletic enough)? Just a couple thoughts?
coloradofalconsfan
September 28th, 2011
5:55 pm
Robert, are you kidding me? Bobby Cox a 20 year cancer. Dude you have clue about baseball and no sense of Braves’ history with that comment. I blame it on being ‘Loserville”. There is a level of where teams who have won, believe they will win. When bad things happen they don’t tense up but brush it off. Atlanta Sports teams – apart from the glory year of 95 when the coaching genius of Bobby Cox out coached Hargrove and his loaded Cleveland Indians team – have choked under pressure. When it started to get closer and closer, team tensed up and failed.
braves24
September 28th, 2011
5:57 pm
It has to be Gonzalez…no ones stepping up….no leadership during this total collapes…The manager has to do something because, if we could have squeezed out ONE win…..anyway he has to be bolder and should have pitched the young guns and NOT Lowe….
Bob
September 28th, 2011
6:15 pm
It’s the Cox culture, stupid! Three run homer to win the game, no starting pitcher past the 6th inning, wear out the bullpen, play the underachieving/over-the-hill veteran rather than the talented rookie, etc., etc. Time to clean house.
Braves, Red Sox Fans Ready For The End, Ugly Or Not | Evening Voice
September 28th, 2011
6:18 pm
[...] Schultz at the Atlanta Journal-Constitution posted a piece today titled “Poll: Who should get most blame for Braves’ collapse?” in which he runs through the potential scapegoats, including General Manager Frank Wren and [...]
ATlanta ga
September 28th, 2011
6:19 pm
What happened to all the walks we use to get last year if we had more things would be diffrent we needed ozzie he plays the players who plays the best not who gets paid the best.. With that said I blame fredi g
Ben
September 28th, 2011
6:27 pm
how bout the fact that their top 2 pitchers the first half of the season missed the entire second half of the season?
Jesus christ
September 28th, 2011
6:33 pm
There is no one to blame. 89 wins, chance to make playoffs on final day of season minus two of your top 3pitchers is an outstanding season. Fans expectations are way too high.
Double Zero Eight
September 28th, 2011
6:38 pm
Fredi: 75%
McDowell:12.5%
Parrish: 12.5%
Lil' Barry Bailout
September 28th, 2011
6:42 pm
This is a tough one. Both the pitching and hitting have sucked out loud during the collapse so there are plenty of candidates. Lowe only sucks every fifth day, so tempting as it is, the dishonor has to go to an “every day” player. I’m going with Heyward for his suckiness during the collapse, backed up with a whole season of suck.
J Clay
September 28th, 2011
6:44 pm
Why is Chipper Jones mouth not an option? Downfall began when he spouted off about Philly series a month or so ago not nattering and that Braves would beat them in playoffs….more than a little presumptuous don’t you think
superiorblogman
September 28th, 2011
6:47 pm
Freddi Gonzalez hands down. This is like the highlight of how stupid and incompetent he is. How is benching Heyward tonight a better move than not benching Lowe last night? This whole team has been ruined by Freddi and his playing favorites
rash
September 28th, 2011
6:50 pm
blowe is the biggest bust 15 million for this sorry ass clown and parrish will be gone
superiorblogman
September 28th, 2011
6:51 pm
benchwarmer
September 28th, 2011
5:16 pm
Ya gotta play Heyward, ya gotta play Lowe. Want to know why? Money.
Heyward makes less than 500,000 those dollars this year, take that foolishness somewhere else. Now if you saying he helps sale tickets I understand that but Heyward is not making any money and is the best bargain on this team this year not named Beachy, Freddie Freeman, Venters, or Kimbrel. Look at his pay and production compared to anyone else and its not even a topic.
birdo
September 28th, 2011
6:52 pm
Play like you are instructed in little league. Find a way to get on base. Move the runner over. When you get two strikes, try to make contact. When you hit the ball hustle until you are called out or ball is called foul. We have very little hustle from any player on this team. McCann as slow as he is, should have on second last night on the ball hit down the left field line. Are we sure this team wants to win?
braves24
September 28th, 2011
7:38 pm
Should have benched Lowe a month ago…You cant keep piotching him expecting differant results…Thats just foolish….You have to change things to change results and with the losing streak…This isnt the middle of the year where you have time to come out of it…You get in a funk now and you have change quickly…or guess what….same results.
braves24
September 28th, 2011
7:47 pm
I think Huddy will get a hit….go astros
CRO-MAGNON MAN
September 28th, 2011
8:07 pm
Nova Scotia Steve:
WHAT A DUMB A$$ YOU MUST BE….GLAD YOU ARE IN NOVA SCOTIA….STAY THERE AWAY FROM ATHENS AND THE BULLDOGS….WHAT A CHEAP SHOT!!!
CRO-MAGNON MAN
September 28th, 2011
8:10 pm
nova scotia steve:
what a cheap shot on bobo….stay in nova scotia, dumb a$$….
heartofdarkness
September 28th, 2011
8:16 pm
I’d blame the AJC sportswriters for not convincing management to take the fan’s suggestions to heart. We woulda wrapped up the division in July.
Athens Brave
September 28th, 2011
8:22 pm
Fredi Gonzalez sat there last evening watching Derek Lowe totally blow the game just like he has almost all season. And this was a crucial playoff game! Everyone, including my wife anticipated Lowe giving up at least five runs based on his past performances and on how he was pitching. So, what did Fredi anticipate? Three up and three down each inning pitched? It was absolutely maddening. The same sort of thing happened when Hansen was having all of his arm troubles the last game he “pitched”. Fredi left him on when it was obvious that he was in pain and had nothing. These two incidents qualifies Fredi as the major person to point fingers at. However, the players, including Lowe, have been playing as if they were zombies. They have been a no-hit ball club all through the collapse and well before that. The players could make Fredi look like a genius, but they haven’t. We can’t fire all of the players, so at least the manager and the hitting coach have to go. I would also look hard for a new pitching coach given Lowe’s case as well as Hansen’s and Jurrrjen’s. It would be great if Derek Lowe would be sent packing. The new manager will have a real difficult job putting this team back together, but it can be done.
be100
September 28th, 2011
8:30 pm
The Dream advance to a 2nd WNBA Finals and not a single article!!
Dream. Best Atlanta franchise. Coverage..Nightmare.
Hit A Single
September 28th, 2011
8:42 pm
Stupidest question ever asked? It is a team game and no one or two people have cost the Braves if they don’t make it. Looks good so far tonight, but if the Braves are eliminated I am afraid we peaked at the wrong time and that we are not as good as we thought. Freeman looks tired and he has never been thru this before. Injuries to the starting pitching even though the young guys have done a great job. Our lineup just does not scare me. Hopefully we can add some offense in the off season.