Pitt, Syracuse move ACC ahead in college hypocrisy derby
That's SEC's Mike Slive to left and ACC's John Swofford in middle. Each plot to take over world.
Congratulations ACC: You just killed a conference.
Funny. That never was mentioned in the ACC-Syracuse-Pittsburgh teleconference Sunday morning. It was all about patting each other on the back and — let me quote John Swofford directly: “This is a monumental day in the history of our league.”
The Big East? Collateral damage.
The ACC confirmed this morning what had been speculated for a few days: It walked through the back door of the Big East when nobody was looking and the lights were turned out and heisted Syracuse and Pitt from the Big East. And the buildings in college sports Armageddon continue to crumble.
Wake me when college presidents hold their next press conference on the virtues of amateur athletics and academic reform.
After Pacific 10 expansion (with more to come), and impending SEC expansion with Texas A&M (with more to come) and Big Ten expansion (with more to come), the ACC again proved it’s just as bad as the rest of them.
Tradition and regional rivalries and all the makes college sports so wonderfully unique just took another hit. This all comes with a fatter television contract serving as the primary — make that only — motivating factor. The next college president who waves the flag of amateurism gets a pie in the face.
Just can’t wait for those natural geographic rivalry games between Syracuse and Wake Forest, and Pitt and Clemson. The ACC will now have 14 members spread over nine states: Georgia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Florida, Maryland, Virginia, Pennsylvania, New York and Massachusetts.
When do they move north into the Maritimes or south into Cuba? The conference schedule should come with a GPS. Or a rail pass. Or a space shuttle.
When the Big East folds into oblivion — or at least is rendered meaningless on the college sports landscape — it can point to the ACC as the relative Axis powers, having lost five schools to the conference: Boston College, Miami, Virginia Tech, Pitt, Syracuse.
Yeah, I guess I’m just old. I’ve been banging on this drum for weeks. What others see as progress, I see as a wrecking ball. Four 16-team conferences, which is where we’re headed, accomplishes nothing in the big picture.
All it does is shoot the big picture full of holes.
Some Recent blogs on this topic:
• Texas A&M’s move to SEC evidence of NCAA’s lost mission
• Big 12 schools may sue if Texas A&M leaves for SEC
• Problem in college athletics isn’t kids, its guys in suits
the headache go away. We’ll know more over the next few weeks.
By Jeff Schultz
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360 comments Add your comment
Big Ol Stinger
September 18th, 2011
2:00 pm
Jeff,
What would you have had the ACC do, stand pat and let itself get picked apart?
Better to be the windshield than the bug.
It would be really cool to get Notre Dame and then spring Vandy from the SEC. Then you’d really have something going from an academic and sports point of view. I know it’s not going to happen, but that would be something to see. Let’s face it, Vandy is not an SEC type school, and Notre Dame is going to need a home soon.
DawgFan
September 18th, 2011
2:01 pm
TCU to ACC…hilarious!!! TCU is not even in a major conference and you think the ACC will take them? Only if that gets Texas! The ACC would make exceptions to land that plum but not dig so low as to accept Texas Tech. Texas fits academically more with ACC than SEC by a wide margin. Same with Oklahoma but they are stuck with OSU making the ACC an impossibility. Question is would Texas leave Texas Tech?
Charles Boyer
September 18th, 2011
2:02 pm
The way to stop all of this nonsense — starting with the professionalization issues of “student”-athletes to the never-ending spiraling cost of tickets to pay for Taj Ma-Stadiums is for one simple ruling to come from the IRS: that athletic donations are not tax deductible any longer.
Sure, you don’t get to write off tickets. but you can write off your booster club donations and your donations for facilities. Should the IRS ever rule that they come with direct benefits or more simply, just change the rules…game over, college sports loses a huge chunk of the fuel for the forest fire it is currently burning.
5150 UOAD
September 18th, 2011
2:03 pm
TexGT
I doubt TEXAS really wants in the ACC. It is a Power Play by Texas more than honest willingness to join. I would like West Virginia and maybe Louisville or Vandy (SEC).
observer
September 18th, 2011
2:11 pm
THis is historic……for me.
This is the first time I have ever agreed with Jeff Schitz on anything.
Rodney Dangerfield
September 18th, 2011
2:27 pm
GR82BAG8R
Philadelphia is the 21st largest seaport in the US. They are just up the Delaware River from Delaware Bay which is part of the Atlantic Ocean. You act as if Pennsylvania is a land locked state like Utah, Colorado, or Arizona in the PAC 10.
What should the PAC 10’s conference name be almighty one of Geography and conference names?
Rodney Dangerfield
September 18th, 2011
2:28 pm
And I did not know that Texas is in the Southeast US, or that TCU is in the eastern US.
5150 UOAD
September 18th, 2011
2:34 pm
Texas and Arizona to start the Mexican Conference
juvenal
September 18th, 2011
2:39 pm
so, Jeff, you going to NY if the times calls?
The AJC Stinks
September 18th, 2011
2:46 pm
The four super conferences lead to a National Championship playoff, the champion of each conference automatically gets to play, four teams to two teams to one National Champion. Wanna play? Then join one of the super conferences.
AustinJacket
September 18th, 2011
2:46 pm
first, how fun was it to watch Kansas try to defend against the option? It’s been a while since I’ve seen a defense that was so feckless — we could have scored 150.
next, Jeff, I understand that you lament the shifts taking place, and that’s your prerogative. Conference affiliations and associations have been changing for a long time, and I saw nothing so sacrosanct about the current landscape that seeing it shift again would be so awful. But I can agree with you about the hypocrisy. It’s about the money, and has been for 3 or 4 decades…
Grabbing the Big East schools only make sense geographically. These 2 teams in particular seem to be a play to shore up the ACC’s dominance in b-ball. That makes Uconn an obvious #3, and maybe Louisville #4. WV would be nice in the ACC too. As for rumors about TX, I’ve heard it would be ACC for everything but football in which they would be independent (a la ND and the BEast). I don’t see how this makes sense for the ACC. Hope they reject it.
Next, raising the exit fee to $20 was almost a more important move than expanding to 14 teams. That all 12 universities agreed to this is a strong vote of confidence they are all committed to staying with the ACC. Though I wonder if the SEC would offer a buy-out to pay the fee for FSU or VT if they want them that badly.
Aurelius
September 18th, 2011
2:48 pm
Charles Boyer 11:17 am
I think Charles Boyer got it 100% correct. West Virginia is a natural for the ACC and slot number 15. Long traditional rivals with Pitt and VT. Good football and good basketball. And they are in the geographic region.
And their TV market spills over into Ohio and Ky.
The 16th member is a real mystery. Several teams can make good arguments for being the 16th member. Rutgers for the huge TV market if it is all about money. I personally would prefer UConn for basketball and an up and coming football program and ESPN’s next door neighbor. Louisville is OK but the TV market is small when compared to the others.
Interesting process.
5150 UOAD
September 18th, 2011
2:53 pm
the ACC and DELTA will be best buddies. This might make the Ga DOME the home for the ACC Championship game as well as the SEC and the ACC BBall Tourney too. I know Charlotte, NC but with the ACC being more spread out Delta to ATL to MARTA to DOWNTOWN makes great economic sense.
garcia
September 18th, 2011
3:02 pm
So the Big East fades away. Maybe that is a bad thing, maybe not. I don’t know. I do know that the ACC could have been severely impacted if it had stayed passive.
As it stands, the ACC will continue to be a conference with high academic standards. It will not dominate college football, but it will be “competitive”. It will be the best conference for basketball and hence, have a sellable asset. So, it will stay alive in this era of TV contracts for football and life will go on.
The Big East has its “big time rivalries”, but none of them involved Pitt or Syracuse. Keep in mind that the Big East has not existed for very long. I think the conference was founded in the early eighties. If that is the case, then where does all this angst come from? Will we cry foul in four decades when a similar shake up severs the “great rivalry” between Pitt and Wake Forrest?
The ACC was wise to add Pitt and Syracuse. There is no hypocrisy to speak of . Money moves everything we do in the USA. Everyone knows it, everyones says it, so, there is no hypocrisy. University presidents are supposed to say that they are looking out for their students. The truth is that the money from sports helps universities to face the real costs of keeping their doors open. If the ACC is smart, it will move to add Notre Dame and a sixteenth university. In that manner, they will negotiate with the networks from a position of power.
College sports has been all about money for decades. The SEC has been a very astute example. Any real change will require ALL universities to turn their backs on the networks and go back to the days of real student athletes. No TV money, no sports wear contracts—-just students getting together and competing as a distraction from their studies. I don’t see that happening in my life time. Do you?
gtfan2011
September 18th, 2011
3:05 pm
Schultz
Way to only use half the facts to get your point across. You talk about the great geographic rivalries between clemson and pitt or wake forest and ‘cuse. But you neglect to mention the Big East’s great rivalries of UConn and South Florida or soon to be TCU and Rutgers! How different is that? The Big East was no different, it looked across the landscape and tried to add teams to help it survive (aka TCU). But it wasnt enough and two of their teams CAME TO THE ACC (and some reports say as many as 10 teams contacted them). Dont use half half the facts to prove your point. The Big East is no better than anybody else.
GTJeff
September 18th, 2011
3:09 pm
Beecan quit your b.i.t.chin. We are NOT going to the Big 10 which I am glad we aren’t. I am happy to be in the ACC. Solid academics, great football schools (FSU,VT,GT,Clemson). Pitt is a football school. Cuse I;m not excited about but GEEZ take a pill.
fuzzybee78
September 18th, 2011
3:13 pm
I say welcome to Cuse and Pitt, definately add UConn at 15. Who’s 16? WV is a better fit on the field but not in the classroom. Rutgers is better in the classroom and TV markets bigger, but not much on the field now. School rankings do matter in the ACC, 7 in top 40, all current 12 (plus Cuse and Pitt) in Top 110 or so according to latest US News rankings.
As for Texas, they created the mess with LHN greed, let um be independent or fix the Big 12, plus it blows up geography. I dont like the Pod idea, to gerrymandered—
Maybe Louisville at 16? Good on the field and court. Not sure about school reputation, definately not an East coast school but maybe close enough. Choose between WV, Rutgers, or Louisville at 16 and CLOSE THE DOOR!
PigIron
September 18th, 2011
3:17 pm
1. Regarding some other poster’s allegations that the SEC started this mess by flirting with TAM, you posters are conveniently forgetting that this whole realignment game started last year with the PAC 10 and the BIG 12 conferences. The BIG 10 also got in on the act before it was over — by poaching Nebraska. The SEC made no changes last year. The SEC proposed no changes.
TAM did proposition the SEC during SEC Media Days in Birmingham this year, but the SEC turned a cold shoulder when they advised TAM that they didn’t date married women. Only after TAM got their divorce papers signed with the BIG 12 did the SEC entertain proposals from TAM. There is still no certainty that A&M will join the SEC at this point in time.
2. The Big East was no longer a legitimate football conference even prior to this move. The ACC had already poached much of their football talent in the previous expansion. What’s left of the Big East is just basketball. Truth be told, the Big East is barely a conference at all. Many of it’s members only participate in one sport within their conference and play other sports in other organizations. That’s not really a sustainable model for an athletic conference.
3. This expansion does nothing to strengthen football in the ACC. This leads me to speculate that this could be a preemptive move to lock down East Coast basketball in the event that ACC football schools later bolt for the SEC, BIG 12 (If Oklahoma & Texas can come to an understanding), or BIG 10 conferences.
4. If we end up with the Holy Grail of 4 sixteen team super-conferences, it won’t just change the traditional college football landscape. There’s much more to it than that. It will create an entirely new league of college football with a limited number of participants — one that can facilitate a tournament playoff system. Perhaps the BCS will continue to exist to serve the remaining CFB programs that don’t make the cut into the new, 64 team league? Perhaps we’ll just abandon the idea of bowl games altogether, or remand them to their original status of post-season exhibition games?
5. I don’t like any of this anymore than does the author, but the wheels are already grinding I don’t believe that the Genie can be put back into the bottle.
Patrick
September 18th, 2011
3:20 pm
Wow, what an insightful and well thought our article. So much depth and analysis. I wonder why the paper’s circulation continues to drop?
fuzzybee78
September 18th, 2011
3:22 pm
UConn should be 15, choose between WV, Rutgers, or Louisville for 16 and CLOSE THE DOOR!
Texas made the mess with the LHN now they can live with it as an Independent or share it an fix whats left or the Big 12. Going to the ACC is to much gerrymandering of the geography, plus they want to have their cake and eat it too with LHN.
PigIron
September 18th, 2011
3:24 pm
In a nutshell: I believe that the elimination of athletic conferences based upon regional geographic boundaries is a mistake. While such conference expansions as are being proposed make for lucrative television contracts, I’m afraid that the long-term effect of these changes on the CFB fan-bases could damage the value of the product.
In an even smaller nutshell: I’m afraid that these doofuses are going to kill the Goose that laid the Golden egg.
macrotech
September 18th, 2011
3:33 pm
Jeff, like you, I am frustrated with the big picture of college football. With the 24 hour flow of information regarding sports generating all of these huge contracts with conferences (I’m opposed to this by the way…it’s long been suspected that there have been bias throughout the history of college football, but now it’s blatant!) we’ve lost any hint of the purity that made college football magical! What we have now is a shadow of what was, once a glorious tradition. To me, the landscape has grown into an ugly vision of charred ruins! I DO think that the ACC saw the writing on the wall and has fought back by opening up to these new schools…sad defense, but it’ll save the ACC in that same ugly picture!
James
September 18th, 2011
3:35 pm
Jeff,
If it does go to 4 16-team super conferences, then do you think we will get a play-in game: Winner of the Rose Bowl (B1G vs. Pac-16) vs. Sugar/Orange Bowl (Winner of SEC vs. ACC)? Do you think that is where this is headed?
Delbert D.
September 18th, 2011
3:39 pm
These multiple conference unfolding developments point toward a Division 1 playoff system, which is good. I’m a proponent of that.
Adding Pitt and Syracuse are natural choices; the are ranked #58 and #62, respectively by US News and World Report, and Pitt adds another AAU member to the conference.
West Virginia and Louisville don’t fit the AAC’s profile. UConn at #58 does and Rutgers does with its AAU membership.
Joe Bob Thibodaux
September 18th, 2011
3:40 pm
South East Conference
is
The Best.
No Matter What Happens,
The
SEC will still be the best.
JBT
PigIron
September 18th, 2011
3:41 pm
@James
It’s highly unlikely that the ACC would be involved in those football games, should they ever occur.
PigIron
September 18th, 2011
3:42 pm
Don’t worry though. They’ll have great basketball… and academics.
SC Jacket
September 18th, 2011
3:45 pm
Blame ESPN for this… Dont forget the greed of Texas… It all started there.
Delbert D.
September 18th, 2011
3:46 pm
I believe that initially 12 schools could initially be involved in a playoff, or 20, if the FCS model is used. The initial games would be on-campus. I would rather see conference championship games played, but it doesn’t fit easily into a playoff model. Using bowl games as part of the playoff would be cumbersome, as all of the early rounds would be played in the first 3 weeks of December. In the current BCS non-playoff situation, schools in a 12-team conference have a disadvantage in playing that extra game when the BCS system is based on solely on polls and computers.
Jacket Up
September 18th, 2011
3:48 pm
Jeff- You are blaming the ACC for protecting itself in a war it did not start. The almighty Big Ten began this with their capturing not so academically noted, Nebraska. Now look at the former Big Twelve after losing Nebraska and Colorado.
There was a conference of perfection. They were essentially adjacent geographically, they had lots of natural rivalries, they had big stadiums and rabid fans, and were all state universities with the same problems and advantages. Now they are barely speaking to each other. Is this the ACC`s fault? The ACC is merely making sure it would not be the second (or third,or last)conference to go belly up. Swofford, for all his previous short-sightedness, and though probably a true purist in all these “adventures”, convinced the presidents that the ACC did not crave to be a “splitor”, but being a “splitee” should be avoided at all costs. And being part of the organization you wanted most was preferable to being the last minute add-on to the Pac Twelve (fourteen, sixteen), or maybe the next Conf. USA.
James
September 18th, 2011
3:53 pm
PigIron, why don’t you think the ACC would be involved in those games? If there are 4 super conferences, it’s going to be the PAC, B1G, SEC and ACC. And the PAC and B1G are going to want to “preserve the tradition of the Rose Bowl”, so the winner of the Rose Bowl vs the winner of the ACC Champ vs. SEC Champ would play in the Nat’l Championship….
Could you pass Jim Harrick's BB 101 exam?
September 18th, 2011
3:58 pm
The ACC continues to build its academic as well as athletic credentials, while the SEC becomes more and more a repository for the academically-challenged, led, of course, by our state’s own institution of lower learning in Athens.
Mole
September 18th, 2011
3:58 pm
ACC adds two and is probably looking for two more. FSU and Clemson stay pat. SEC hillbillies can only watch and stutter.
PigIron
September 18th, 2011
3:59 pm
Believe that if it brings you comfort. I don’t know what will happen, but if the Big 12 stays put, then there’s no room left in the equation for the ACC.
The Big 10 will have the North-East region.
The SEC will have the South-East region.
The Pac 10,12 or whatever will have the West Coast region.
The Big 12 will have the central region.
That’s 64 teams.
mbs59er
September 18th, 2011
4:06 pm
Jeff, I would think that a liberal like you would support Evolution like this. You know, survival of the fittest. It fits the Darwinian mold. The Big Least has been the weak sister for a long while. Now the ACC needs to take UConn and West Va. Hopefully they won’t take Rutgers or Texas.
TexGT
September 18th, 2011
4:08 pm
Anyone making fun of the Sec better be careful – adding SU and Pitt does not help in football at all, only makes us work. Texas, on the other and, helps with academics, football, basketball, baseball, and other sports. And it would bring in a ton more money to the conference. And it helps open the state of Texas for recruiting. There is no legit reason to take two pitiful big east schools over Texas.
TexGT
September 18th, 2011
4:09 pm
“work” = “worse”
GT
September 18th, 2011
4:13 pm
Everybody has been banging on the ACC being on death row. Being in SEC country I think there was a certain pleasure from some corners, Mark Bradley being one, who was certain the obituary needed to be written. Any ACC school was the pickings of the SEC, according to the bias understanding of pundits in this area. The ACC patiently listened to this foolishness as if it was all about money and the SEC. I think when you do a exist interview with Pitt or Syracuse you will find they ask to get into the ACC, they made the first move and they made it because they thought their school academic and character wise was better suited for the ACC than the SEC or any other conference. The SEC is money in the bank for local press since they are ,many times, the only people covering these backwoods. I know in Georgia there is not better way to sale newpapers than to be pro dawgs. I am glad we have this excitement, about local kids. Just don’t put in print what you don’t know what you are talking about, that can be harmful to the ACC. It was not the AJC that broke the news of the ACC it was the New York Times Friday. The same day Bradley was writing about how FSU was a candidate for the SEC, not negatively I might add, and not worrying about the damage they might have on the ACC. Nope that one help the cause this one prevents the cause from folding up a good and older conference than the Big East. One other thing Bradley doesn’t report is the 20 million exist fee from the ACC. To Bradley this was not an open question it was a fact that may have multipied to Va. Tech and on and on.
I also thing in this time of parity there will be plenty of schools stepping up to take the places of these two teams in the Big East. SMU and UCF are two that come to mind immediately but the way boundaries are expanding it could come out of California. It is a television audience. The ACC has taken care of itself despite being put on death row by the local press and national press getting their infomation from these locals. By the way Jeff how bout those Jackets. You didn’t see that coming either did ya?
Delbert D.
September 18th, 2011
4:16 pm
PigIron – You seem to continue to consider only your preferences, which have been anti-ACC for the posts you’ve made in the past week. On the other hand, what I have been postulating has actually come to pass. The ACC has 14 schools, once the contracts are signed, and they have 8 other schools that they have been considering. The SEC has 13, once the potential lawsuits are settled. The Big Ten has 12 and is looking. The PAC-12 is 12 and is looking. The Big East is disappearing.
It may be that conferences hold at 14 members for awhile, or they may move quickly to 16. Once the 4 major conferences move to 16 schools, a playoff based on the Division winners and selections of other schools ala the NCAA Basketball Tournament can begin. I say forget the irrelevant bowls, or let them host teams that don’t make the tournament, providing what little historical significance that they currently enjoy. That was the status quo circa the 1960s. The semifinals and championship game can be played at neutral sites for big ratings and money to the schools in the first 2 weeks of January.
GTville
September 18th, 2011
4:20 pm
The last 2 spots need to be filled with football powers. If UConn is admitted and ACC does not plan to go to 18-20 teams, then I believe they know FSU, GT, and Clemson are gone. The FSU president said the ACC is happy to add to its “northern tier”. He did not say “we”. Notre Dame is definitely in the ACC as it will give them national recognition, rather than the limited exposure of the upper midwest.
PigIron
September 18th, 2011
4:20 pm
A Possible SEC Post-Realignment Configuration:
SEC East
1. Clemson
2. Florida
3. Florida State
4. Georgia
5. Kentucky
6. South Carolina
7. Tennessee
8. West Virginia
*Vandy to the ACC.
SEC West
1. Alabama
2. Arkansas
3. Auburn
4. Louisiana State
5. Mississippi
6. Mississippi State
7. Missouri
8. Texas A&M
GTville
September 18th, 2011
4:21 pm
@Delbert: Why do we need a selection process? This gives the SEC 4-5 teams. Why not make the conference games more important and just send the 4 conference winners to a playoff?
PigIron
September 18th, 2011
4:27 pm
Delbert D.
You’ve been around here for a while. Anything that isn’t pro-ACC appears anti-ACC in your eyes. I’m just trying to be realistic. How did this recent expansion improve football in the ACC?
If Texas stands pat with Oklahoma and the Big 12 survives, how will the ACC become relevant to a football super-conference league? Under those circumstances, it’s much more likely that the ACC will be poached of their best football programs and become a basketball ( and academics
) conference. If Texas does join the ACC, then things get much more complicated.
Delbert D.
September 18th, 2011
4:29 pm
GTville – Simply because it limits the field to 8. Independents and schools from non-playoff conferences are not accommodated in the system. It would make sense only if the NCAA restructures, or if the schools of the 4 major conferences form an alliance outside the NCAA, which I think would be unlikely.
5150 UOAD
September 18th, 2011
4:30 pm
Since the Greatest minds are on this blog I implore all of you to run for office. If not go to Washington at the very least and explain to the President, Congress, and everybody on Capital Hill how to fix our countries REAL problems. Don’t waste your Brain Power on fixing some child’s game being played by less than educated, over sized, morons.
I biggest issue in this country isn’t jobs, healthcare, or The WAR it is whether college football needs more money, a playoff, and should the players be paid.
Alphare
September 18th, 2011
4:30 pm
That means GTech, VTech, FSU are all out of reach by SEC. It seems to me Mizzo is the only option only for SEC
Delbert D.
September 18th, 2011
4:32 pm
PigIron – I never said anything about improving football in any conference. If the ACC is poached as you say, the new exit fee is $20 million, more than the vast majority of schools net in profit from athletic revenue over several years.
mbs59er
September 18th, 2011
4:35 pm
Clemson, Va Tech, and FSU all agreed to up the buyout to $20 mil to leave the ACC. That means that they aren’t going anywhere. Face it, SEC homers, the ACC is just as desirable; if not more, in the eyes of other schools. The ACC will easily get to 16, and I doubt if Texas is one of them. The ACC cares about B-Ball and academics more than football. That is why I think that UConn and West Va will be headed to the ACC in less than a week and then the ACC will stop at 16.
PigIron
September 18th, 2011
4:36 pm
Plenty of good lawyers around to work out petty details.
5150 UOAD
September 18th, 2011
4:36 pm
PigIron has to be a SEC fan and a UGA fan too.