As Braves talk trade (Pence?), Ross says ‘We need a piece’
Teams like the aggressive Hunter Pence (sliding) but Phillies may have an edge on Braves.
Good morning. No trades yet.
The pursuit of Houston outfielder Hunter Pence by several teams, including the Braves and Philadelphia, is what’s creating a logjam in the trade market, according to ESPN’s Buster Olney. From his latest blog (which requires an Insider subscription).
… It is clear that right now, [Pence] has the greatest market value of any available player. The Astros’ initial instinct seemed to be to play conservative and hang onto him, but they probably will never again get the kind of offers they’re getting for Pence — the Phillies’ package of pitcher Jarred Cosart and first baseman Jonathan Singleton, or Atlanta’s offer, which presumably includes young pitchers they would not consider trading for Carlos Beltran. For the Braves, the stakes are high, because they already are faced with a postseason in which they may have to face Beltran, and now their most prominent division rival appears to be the front-runner to get Pence.
… [Pence] does not fit the profile of an elite offensive player, with his unorthodox swing and playing style. But he’s a good player greatly respected for how hard he plays, and unlike Beltran — a pure rental — the team that acquires Pence could have him for the next two years and beyond. He’s the type of player the Phillies could use now; he’s the type of player the Braves could use now.
… At some point, the rest of the dominoes behind Pence will fall: Ryan Ludwick, perhaps to Cleveland or Atlanta; Coco Crisp, maybe to the Braves; Carlos Quentin, perhaps if somebody will pay to pry him away from the White Sox, although Kenny Williams wakes up today just three games out in a very, very winnable division.
You know where I stand: general manager Frank Wren would be playing a dangerous game if he did nothing of significance.
I spoke to Braves catcher David Ross after Thursday’s 5-2 loss to the Pirates and he did nothing to hide his belief that the Braves need help. The team’s run totals in the last six games are 2-3-1-4-2-2.
From Ross: “I think we all know we need a piece. I don’t think we’re desperate for a piece. But another presence in the lineup would be nice. Especially being as left-handed heavy as we are, a right handed bat [is needed]. [We hear] the rumors. Wren hasn’t actually talked to me. He’s not really blowing up my phone, asking my opinion.”
Chipper Jones acknowledged the team could use another bat but he cautioned against players being distracted by the trade talk.
“I’m confident that we’ll do something,” he said. “What it is? I don’t know. To what magnitude? I don’t know. I’m pretty confident we’ll better our ballclub in the next couple of days. But the guys in here need to worry about the Florida Marlins [the next opponent]. And we’re confident we can win games with what we’ve got. So everybody’s kind of been instructed to stay tunneled in on what our goal is every day and not worry about Frank Wren’s job.”
When asked if he believed the team needs to make a trade, Jones responded, “I’m not going to alienate my current teammates. All teams can probably benefit from an injection of new blood when it’s a quality player. But we don’t have 60-plus wins for nothing. We’re a pretty good ballclub. We do it our way. As long as we pitch, we’re going to win. If we don’t pitch, we’re going to struggle.”
David O’Brien weighed in on the benefits of the Braves dealing for Quentin, but some remain skeptical that Chicago is serious about dealing him.
That’s it for now. We’ll let you know if anything serious develops.
Who would be your first choice for the Braves? Pence, Quentin or somebody else?
By Jeff Schultz
♦
Earlier: Braves would be taking a risk without major move
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414 comments Add your comment
Holoman
July 29th, 2011
12:10 pm
If the Phillies get Pence then Braves will have to worry about Howard,Utley,Rollins,Ibanez,D.Brown,and then Pence for neaxt few years… We need to get Pence.
justafan
July 29th, 2011
12:10 pm
Bluestreak, a 300 hitter leading the league in Sb 38, lead-off hitter would not help this 230 hitting team?..what Planet you from?
Furman Bitcher
July 29th, 2011
12:11 pm
DO NOT OVERPAY FOR PENCE. HE IS NOT WORTH IT
DawgDad
July 29th, 2011
12:11 pm
Considering the Braves theoretically could have put away the Giants last year with just the addition of a veteran utility middle infielder, no great expense required, and considering the competing teams this year will all add significant pieces, and considering how battered and left-handed heavy the Braves are, doing nothing is hardly an option.
Whoever the Braves or Phillies add the other team is likely to pick up the remaining most attractive player, and the Central teams may pick up the scraps (they typically have less resources). Now we are feeling the impact of Chipper’s contract; it is constraining the options and he’s unable to provide full value in return.
I like Pence – a lot. I like Bourn and Crisp, too, though I think Schafer will contribute if he stays healthy (he adds a lot that isn’t apparent on the stat-sheet: defense, speed, small-ball threat, hustle and grit). A right-handed bat would remove a lot of pressure off guys like Schafer, Heyward, and Hinske, who are often asked to battle the toughest of lefty pitchers on left-handed hitters. Keeping Pence off the Philly roster may forestall them steam-rolling all the rest of the competition.
Pence is too good a player to not provide options down the road. You give up a top pitching prospect today to land him, you should be able to get one back two years down the road if he walks. Who cares about his batting stance? Anyone old enough to remember Stan Musial?
Holoman
July 29th, 2011
12:12 pm
I guees the Braves like hitters that hit .210 with 4 hrs and 20 rbi. That’s pretty much all they got minus Freeman,Uggla,and McCann…
justafan
July 29th, 2011
12:12 pm
Bluestreak, yes we need a RH bat agree but Bourn would be a big plus over some fans love affair with Schafer.
Bluestreak
July 29th, 2011
12:14 pm
justafan,
You aren’t getting my point. He would help but he wouldn’t address the bigger issue of our left-handed heavy lineup. We NEED a RH hitting outfielder to balance out the lineup.
Bourn is a big step up for our leadoff situation. But I don’t think that move alone will solve our issues.
That said, if we could only get Bourn and nothing else, I would do that without question. I just think we should do that in conjunction with getting a RH hitter.
FSUFalcon
July 29th, 2011
12:15 pm
I think we all know without a trade, it would take a miracle to do anyting in the post season, and there is no guarantee we woudl get there..the braves have been nothing but a .500 ball club over the last 3 weeks, and our needs are glaring right now. just look at our batting avg vs lefties this year…atrocious
Holoman
July 29th, 2011
12:16 pm
I don’t see all the hoopla over Mike Minor. I mean you’ve got Vizcaino,Teheran,Delgado,Medlen,Beachy. Braves won’t even miss him.
justafan
July 29th, 2011
12:17 pm
Bitcher, if he is not worth it why is 6 teams busting there as@ to get him?
Plus if the Braves– next year are the next wish to trade Pence they can get value back..if you trade for junk you get junk..you smarter than that I hope.
Furman was a good man..why the hate?
justafan
July 29th, 2011
12:19 pm
agree Bluestreak..sorry if I misjudged your opinion..
justafan
July 29th, 2011
12:20 pm
after dead-line you must pass waivers..thats not easy anymore other teams block you from getting your player.
Runners Left on Base....
July 29th, 2011
12:21 pm
Actually, there have been plenty of stories about a possibility of Michael Bourn being traded. While Quentin and Pence would be great additions to the Braves, the only logical result would be to bench Heyward. While he’s not played well most of this year, it’s not likely that the Braves would want to do that. Bourn is a natural fit for what the Braves really need — a leadoff hitter who is hitting around .300 and who would be the best base stealer that we’ve had in years. Then, bat Prado 2nd, and you should have plenty of baserunners for the heart of the order to drive in…. Hmmmm… I didn’t know that the media has to cover any trade possibilities before it is OK for the Braves to pursue it or for fans to hope that they do……. Bourn in center and a decent outfielder to platoon in RF would be great additions and would give the Braves a great shot at winning the World Series…
VinnyD
July 29th, 2011
12:22 pm
I would give up a lot for Kemp, not gonna lie. Here is a name to think about though…Jeff Baker with the cubs. Plays a few positions, KILLS lefties. Price should be CHEAP. I hope Frank is reading this.
Bluestreak
July 29th, 2011
12:24 pm
This from MLBTradeRumors.com:
•Joel Sherman of the New York Post hears that the Astros prefer the Braves’ prospects to the Phillies’ prospects (Twitter link). Atlanta won’t give up the “key guy,” who is believed to be Mike Minor, Sherman writes.
As long as we’re not keeping Minor over one of the other 3 big 4, then I’m cool. And I would tend to agree that any Braves package is better than the Philly packages getting floated out there, because they are closer to the Majors and the new Stros owner doesn’t want to be down long in a rebuilding phase
justafan
July 29th, 2011
12:24 pm
Holoman @ 2:10 well said.Thats important to think about.
Hopeful
July 29th, 2011
12:25 pm
How about Heyward and one of the pitching prospects for both Bourne and Pence
Bluestreak
July 29th, 2011
12:29 pm
justafan: no biggie. I could see how it would read that way…
Runners Left…: Right now, Quentin or Pence would play left as Chip is hurting. In fact, I think it would benefit the Braves in the long run as Prado can hold the fort down at 3rd with a solid bat in LF and Heyward in RF. Larry would have plenty of time to heal fully for the playoffs.
gcs
July 29th, 2011
12:29 pm
That was a pretty pathetic series:
Game 1 – Loss; 0 hits with RISP
Game 2 – 19th inning win; a gift from a tired umpire
Game 3 – 10th inning win off a minor league pitcher
Game 4 – Loss; 10 LOB
That could have easily have been a Pirates sweep.
Gimme Some Offense!
July 29th, 2011
12:30 pm
Bourn is hitting .284 against lefties and .311 against righties. So, the fact that he bats lefty is irrelevant for a leadoff hitter. The fact that Heyward’s batting .167, McLouth is at .181 and Schafer is at .190 vs. lefties — VERY relevant! Put Bourn in center and pick up a RF who can hit lefties and drive in some runs as a platoon with Heyward and that makes our lineup vs. lefties much stronger, and gives us a better RH pinch hitter than we currently have. Otherwise, get a big name like Quentin or Pence, and bench Heyward for this season…..then, Heyward only plays when Chipper’s out, and Prado’s at 3rd. By next year, maybe Heyward gets his swing back….
Just Wanna Say
July 29th, 2011
12:31 pm
SI_JonHeyman Jon Heyman
#astros prefer to do pence deal wi/ #braves, but atl very protective of bigtime pitching prospects. #phillies working on it
justafan
July 29th, 2011
12:31 pm
Blue..I’d give Minor if had to but they may want Beachy?
Could be saving Minor for White Sox and get CQ to go alone with Pence…just dreaming! I don’t know the other prospects involed to say anything ?
Bluestreak
July 29th, 2011
12:31 pm
Hopeful, no..Heyward’s having a bad year. Trading him would be selling low on a future superstar.
Hopeful
July 29th, 2011
12:32 pm
Let Heyward get his swing back in Houston… Heyward/insert pitching prospect(s) for Bourn/Pence
justafan
July 29th, 2011
12:34 pm
@12:29 Buestreak–that would work….
Bluestreak
July 29th, 2011
12:36 pm
justafan, I like your thinking. We would really be going for it all this year and could go toe to toe with the Phils and be favored, instead of the ‘dog. And for all the hype that SF is getting for Oldtran, I think we’d have the upper hand on them too. We are getting our AS catcher back at some point.
justafan
July 29th, 2011
12:37 pm
I’d trade Schafer but not J-Hey..22 years old and runner up last year to ROY..the kid could turn it around and God only knows what he could do…keep J-Hey.
Smoltzie
July 29th, 2011
12:37 pm
Lets be careful here…..I don’t think giving up quality young pitching for one of these guys to come in here and struggle is a good idea…The guys that are here now need to play better…They are stinking up the place….They know who they are….Swinging at too many bad pitches and not playing smart baseball. Fixing those issues will go a long way…Think about how they have played the past couple weeks.
Hopeful
July 29th, 2011
12:38 pm
One more comment…I’m about tired of the “homer” Braves announcers…. Praising every rountine play by the other team’s defense as “spectacular” and here’s the best: trying to justify at bats for us as “good at bat” (like a full count or p/o without advancing a runner)….. Worse collective offense I’ve seen at about any level of ball.
Hopeful
July 29th, 2011
12:42 pm
J-Hey not 22. He’s 38. When’s the last time you saw a 22 year old get injured that often —- it’s not what you say – it’s what you do.
Skeezix
July 29th, 2011
12:42 pm
First of all–Freeman is having a special season, has far exceeded my expectations, and I would guess the NL rookie of the year if a vote was held today.
Second-The good news is that being the pathetic RBI generators that they are, the Braves are still a serious playoff contender. This tell us that this team, with some offensive help, has the potential to do something special this year. We can only wait and see if ownership/management will make a serious committment to the rest of this season and the post season. We need a 2011 version of Fred McGriff ….and some bullpen help. Otherwise, we Braves fans will be left at the altar once again.
justafan
July 29th, 2011
12:42 pm
agree we need to win now..I’m getting old and may not be here next year..Got to run ..Pray for Pence and CQ to come to Braves and make many fans happy!
Holoman
July 29th, 2011
12:43 pm
Copied off Yahoo :
It appeared that the Philadelphia Phillies were done haggling for Hunter Pence(notes) of the Houston Astros after the folks in Texas supposedly said no to an offer of Class A right-hander Jarred Cosart and first baseman Jonathan Singleton along with a third piece.
But now FOX Sports reports that the Phils and Astros “are making progress” on a Pence trade. However, a source tells the site that if the trade can’t be agreed up on Friday, the Astros will move on to the other suitors for Pence, including the Atlanta Braves, Cincinnati Reds, and Boston Red Sox.
What’s supposedly holding things up is the ID of that third piece (and possibly a fourth), according to FOX Sports, but one thing Phillies fans don’t have to worry about is that young outfielder Domonic Brown(notes) is not a name being discussed.
However, Yahoo! Sports’ Tim Brown points out that “the sense outside the organization is that Pence will not be traded” and that “the consensus in the clubhouse, according to one player, is that Pence will not be dealt.” However, Brown notes that pitcher Wandy Rodriguez(notes) and infielder Clint Barmes(notes) are believed to be headed elsewhere before Sunday’s deadline.
Jerry Blooger
July 29th, 2011
12:44 pm
Yea Smoltzie Its a fact weve just played poor baseball since the all star break. Poor bunting, not moving over runners or throwing to the wrong base goes along way to hurting our chances to maintain the wild card lead. We have a hard time getting ahead of hitters lately and getting out of the first 2 innings trailing. I know weve won 61 but poor baseball is poor baseball. Why not make things easier on ourselves.
Bluestreak
July 29th, 2011
12:45 pm
I want my home team announcers to be homers, but with a clear view of what is going on. If I want the negative Atlanta slant, I’ll tune into Fox or ESPN (not so much now that Morgana, er Morgan and that other guy have left).
If you want extreme homerism, tune into WGN and listen to the WS broadcast (you can put it on the board, YES!!) Speaking of YES, that is another homerism example. The Yanks can lose the game by 12 and it would be a squeaker to those guys. Just can’t stand to listen to either.
justafan
July 29th, 2011
12:45 pm
Hopeful…don’t sound hopeful..lol
will agree on announcers..joke!.. except Sutton I like.
Wrens Nephew
July 29th, 2011
12:47 pm
Quentin is having a career year, Uncle Frank needs to bring his bat to Atlanta. I like the idea that I heard from another(cant remember their name), sit Heyward or demote him for the rest of the season in an effort to find his swing and you have a perfect place for Quentin. Then if Chip retires move Prado to third, Quentin to left and Heyward back to right. Heyward needs some smelling salt(AAA) in order to wake that bat up.Just an opinion that I share with someone else whose name escapes me at the moment!
Joshua
July 29th, 2011
12:52 pm
Justafan, care to post a link to a national sporting news syndicate who reports that either a) the Braves should trade for Bourn, or b) the Braves are actively trying to negotiate a trade for Bourn?
Braves fanboy blogs don’t count.
Holoman
July 29th, 2011
12:52 pm
Minor,McLouth,and W.Ramirez for Pence ?
Braves20
July 29th, 2011
12:52 pm
I understand the Astros reluctance on the Phils package. Have seen the two key components this summer in Florida. Both decent ballplayers but not on the level of others who have passed through here over the years – i.e. Howard, Hamels etc.
Unless as others have suggested, we are counting on an eight man rotation, pull the trigger Frank.
Ghostrider
July 29th, 2011
12:53 pm
I just heard on the Radio that the Phillies are going after Pence….Keep waiting Wren and their wont be anyone left.
Sutton's Fro
July 29th, 2011
12:59 pm
One thing Schultz didn’t mention from Buster Olney’s blog: Olney opines that it’s quite likely that Pence’s improved offense this year is due to the fact that opposing pitchers aren’t scared to throw strikes to *any* hitter on a team that’s lost 2/3 of its games this season. (he cites Phil Plantier of the ‘93 Padres for comparison).
Pence would be a good addition, along the same lines as Ludwick or Quentin — not necessarily the “perfect” piece FW would be willing to sacrifice a top prospect for. Not counting possible injuries, if the Phils get Pence, and the Braves get Carlos Quentin or Ludwick, the gap between the 2 teams will stay the same. The only way Wren can close the gap is if the Phils get no one.
K Mills
July 29th, 2011
1:00 pm
I have watched Hunter Pence since he first came up from the minors. And, I can unequivocally tell you that whoever gets him will be getting a jewel. The kid is strong, very fast, has a good arm, and is very good offensively. But, beside all of that you will be getting a really good hearted, generous, extremely hard working, dedicated, loyal citizen. Hunter is about as firmly grounded of a human as you will find…he’s the sort of guy you would invite over for Sunday dinner and let your daughter date. Love the guy! I hate for the Lastros to let him go cause he’s my only reason these days for following them, but for Huner’s career it is better served with another team that is contending.
Wayde
July 29th, 2011
1:03 pm
I think we need Michael Bourn as our lead off guy…he will end of with 50 steal this year and we won’t have to give up as much as getting Pence. I still believe in Heyward. I don’t like them starting to platoon him. I am looking down the road. Lowe is gone after this year and Hudson is no spring chicken. I love Jurrjens, Hansen and Beachy. I am not convinced Jurrjens will be around long with his agent. We need to hang on to the Pitching….
Joshua
July 29th, 2011
1:06 pm
blah blah blah Michael Bourn blah blah blah
It’s not going to happen. So just shut up about it.
Can it be true?
July 29th, 2011
1:06 pm
Quentin isn’t going to be traded. The White Sox still have a chance. We need to consider Pense or Ludwick and maybe BOTH?
O'Brien
July 29th, 2011
1:08 pm
My vote is Pence.
The Braves are already 5 games behind the Phills. If the Phillies get Hunter Pence, and the Braves settle for a Ludwick, or Willingham type, the gap between the Phills and Braves will be wider.
By getting Hunter Pence, the Braves would be a better team, and they would keep him away from the Phillies.
the truth...
July 29th, 2011
1:12 pm
Every time I look at clips of Pence I think of long lanky Dale Murphy. Apparently doesnt’ have the power Murph had but he hits for average, plays 1000% all the time and drives in runs. Pluse he is the solid citizen Murph is still loved for being….
Please don’t bring any head cases home….chemistry, performance and character are the three assests we need…..and more than one year of rental like Tex….
Fly On The Wall
July 29th, 2011
1:12 pm
I’d give up the farm for Pence and Bourn…and throw in Fredi too.
O'Brien
July 29th, 2011
1:13 pm
From mlbtraderumors.com;
1) The Astros would prefer to deal Pence to the Braves, but Atlanta continues to be very protective of their big-time pitching prospects, tweets Jon Heyman of SI. The Phillies are still working to get something done.
2) Joel Sherman of the New York Post hears that the Astros prefer the Braves’ prospects to the Phillies’ prospects (Twitter link). Atlanta won’t give up the “key guy,” who is believed to be Mike Minor, Sherman writes.
3) ESPN.com’s Buster Olney reports that the Braves, generally speaking, have zero enthusiasm about giving up Minor, Julio Teheran, Arodys Vizcaino or Randall Delgado (Twitter link).
Those 3 comments give the impression that it is unlikely the Braves will give up the necessary pieces to get Pence.
Ironically, the Giants and Phills have all won WS the last 5 years, but yet they are the ones being very aggressive. When was the last time the Braves even got to the World Series?
The Braves need to make a bold move (regardless of what Chipper says).