What’s stopping Braves, Wren from trading a pitcher?
Are Braves overvaluing pitching prospects like Mike Minor? (Hyosub Shin/AJC)
I’m going to refrain from excessive bashing of Braves general manager Frank Wren — maybe just a few jabs — until we see what (if anything) he does between now and the major league trade deadline.
But I do have one question: How much pitching does one franchise need?
The Braves apparently lost out to San Francisco in the Carlos Beltran sweepstakes in part because Wren was not willing to part with a top pitching prospect, like Mike Minor.
Loading ...It’s common in pro sports for teams to overvalue their own prospects. We know the Braves’ success since the 1990s has been built on pitching. The organization has done a wonderful job developing young arms. But dealing a pitcher for a player (like Beltran) who potentially can put a team over the top seems logical.
Let’s look at the depth chart. The Braves have five solid starters: Tommy Hanson, Tim Hudson, Jair Jurrjens, Derek Lowe and Brandon Beachy. Lowe has only one year left on his contract and conceivably may not be here even that long. Hudson is 36 years old. That still leaves three starters potentially for the long term.
The organization also has at least four top pitching prospects. Julio Teheran is the consensus No. 1. The next three, in no particular order: Minor, Randall Delgado and Arodys Vizcaino. While there’s no guarantee all will make it at the major league level, the Braves realistically only would need two of them to fill out a five-man rotation in the future (assuming Hanson, Jurrjens and Beachy are kept and stay healthy).
So why not trade one? It certainly wouldn’t qualify as mortgaging the future.
The Braves need offensive help. Chipper Jones can’t be counted on to get and stay healthy. Brian McCann is out two to three weeks. Others are either banged up, struggling or both. This is not a new problem, the McCann injury just made the situation a little more desperate.
Wren has the assets to trade to make this team better. But the deadline is only four days away, and San Francisco, one of the Braves’ competitors for a National League pennant and a World Series just got better.
By Jeff Schultz
♦
Earlier: Heyward still determined to make impact on Braves’ system
Earlier: A long night, an awful call, a Braves win led by Scott Proctor
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324 comments Add your comment
KB
July 28th, 2011
3:35 pm
Um…anybody remember Adam Wainwright for JD Drew? Or how about Elvis Andrus & Salty for Teixeira? Wren is smart to not panic and give up a hot pitching prospect, (especially Minor! Are you nuts, Schultz??). Beltran is in a contract year and there is NO WAY he would re-sign with Atlanta. This is not a Fred McGriff situation…
the truth..
July 28th, 2011
3:37 pm
I am so glad Wren is the one having to make the decisions on these trades. No one GM has a perfect record trading because it is not scientific and depends on human to either succeed or fail….
If Wren made his trades by reading these Blogs he’d be so confused he’d probably screw it up so bad we’d have no prospects left.
David Ross was on 680 the Fan radio an hour ago or so. He said that “the players”
hoped that a trade that would improve the team happened…but said he understood that to have a trade takes two trading partners and both GMs are going to want all they can get….
and that the GM has constraints like budgets that hold him back…
It just isn’t so simple folks..
I hope that Wren can make a trade and like Ross said earlier I want all the golden players too….but it is a little more difficult than that….
KB
July 28th, 2011
3:43 pm
The Truth: You obviously have not seen Minor pitch very much. He is a very, very good pitcher. Not only that, but he is a quality lefty, which the Braves rotation sorely needs. He was tremendous at Vanderbilt, (which has become a factory for quality pitching). Trade one of the top left-handed prospects in Major League Baseball – to the Mets, who are in our division – for a 34 yr old “superstar” in a contract year, (who also has a history of injuries)? Glad you’re not the GM.
Hillbilly D
July 28th, 2011
3:44 pm
I want all the golden players too….but it is a little more difficult than that….
It’d probably be really interesting to be a fly on the wall during some of the trade talks.
Steve
July 28th, 2011
3:48 pm
The Braves are hitting .240 as a team. Doesn’t that indicate they need help?
JerseyChoppin
July 28th, 2011
3:50 pm
You guys are so full of crap. If Wren traded Minor or any other pitching prospect, you people would be screaming for his head! You would blame him for trading a top young pitcher to a division rival for a 2 month rental. And if Beltran slumps; or gets hurt; you’d want his head on a stake.
Its so easy for you monday morning QBs to sit here an bash Wren, but the fact is that he has been a successful GM. With very little resources (a payroll that isn’t great) he has very little room to err. And so far he has made more good moves than bad.
I’m not saying that a Beltran deal would have been a bad move. I’m just saying that you guys on here are full of it, and just like to complain no matter the course of action. The Braves are one of the top teams in the game; and yet if you read these blogs you’d think they were the Astros. Wow.
Steve
July 28th, 2011
3:50 pm
The Giants and Indians have made moves. Fumbling Frank has done nothing but talk. I wish his salary was tied to how the Braves perform in the playoffs, then he would do something significant.
the truth..
July 28th, 2011
3:52 pm
@Smoove Criminal
No you are correct Schafer may have not done any different that McLouth….but he has an arm that is so superior to McLouth’s it is no contest. He is faster and covers more ground in the outfield much quicker thasn Nate.
But the real issue here was not to throw McCutchen out, but to prevent the batter from going to second…hit the cutoff man is the basic fundamental play there.
Nate blew it, and as a former All Star CF there is no excuse for that. I would wager that if Jason had been out there and made the same mistake this blog would have him drawn and quartered….
You McLouth lovers can do what you like….I am so sick of seeing him do his little crow-hop move as if he is going to cut loose with the ball and then fall back and lollypop the ball into the infield….he is not a Major League center fielder….
JerseyChoppin
July 28th, 2011
3:53 pm
Oh and a good point on the first page of this blog: I’d take Wheeler from the Giants over minor from the braves. And I wouldn’t give up Delgado or Teheran. none of you even know who the mets where asking; everyone just assumes it was minor because there were some scouts watching his start. And he sucked that start, so you think that’s all the Mets wanted??
I bet Wren would have given up Minor for Beltran. I just don’t think the Mets wanted just Minor.
the truth..
July 28th, 2011
3:55 pm
@Hillbilly D
Man are you right !!!
I’d love to watch the back and forth…don’t have any illusions that you just tell them what you want and they give it to you because you want it.
JerseyChoppin
July 28th, 2011
3:57 pm
Everyone knows the Braves needs. And now with McCann hurt, the asking price is going to get even higher. The bottom line is that you really don’t want to make it a question of winning now versus winning later. You want to be able to win now; and keep yourself stocked for the future.
And you don’t do that by giving up your top prospects. Which is what it was going to take to land a Beltran. It really annoys me that the assumption was Minor for Beltran; and that the Braves wouldn’t pull the trigger on that.
Steve
July 28th, 2011
3:57 pm
To those who think the Wren is a good GM. The Braves have been to the playoffs ONCE during his tenure.
Bravefan for life
July 28th, 2011
3:58 pm
Im glad Wren did not part with Minor for Beltran. Thats a 3 month rental for a potential #1-2 starter with years till free agency. Im sick of getting the rental players anyway. I mean come on. If your gona give up pitchers then get more then 3 months and the rest of his billion dollar salary.
Hillbilly D
July 28th, 2011
4:01 pm
the truth
Don’t know if you’ve ever read Leo Durocher’s book but he had some interesting thing to say about trading. He said when he would open talks with a team, they would usually give him a list of say 5 players, that they would give. He would probably also have a list of players he’d trade. He said when he got the other team’s list, if the player he wanted was on the list, he would just ignore that name and try to make them think he wanted one of the other players. His goal was to try to make it look like the player he was really after was his fallback position. I’m sure the mind games today are probably pretty similar. Just the contracts, no-trades, etc, probably make them more complicated.
the truth..
July 28th, 2011
4:02 pm
FLASH FLASH FLASH —-BREAKING NEWS
WREN TRADES THE BATBOYS AND TWO BUCKETS OF BALLS FOR PENCE, LUDWIG, BOURN, UPTON AND KEMP.
TRADE WAS FACILITATED BY THE GENIUSES ON THE AJCE BLOGS THAT WERE SO WISE THEY KNEW EVERY DETAIL AND GUIDED WREN ALL THROUGH THE PROCESS.
BRAVES NOW WORLD SERIES FAVORITE!!!!!
the truth..
July 28th, 2011
4:10 pm
@Hillbilly D
Yeah that was good … and I’m sure it is accurate for all the add on players assuming there is some interest in the main trade target(s)…there is definitely lots of strategy involved that fans like us have no idea about.
Plus today’s contracts are so complicated that even if the traders agree in principle there can be more information to make things work…
David Ross said today that as a player he was like…..”yeah let’s get Beltran, yeah that guy will put us over the top ….go for it, get them in here”…..but then he said “….we just want to do it and get on the field…but it doesn’t work that way”
Josh
July 29th, 2011
12:00 am
You can never have enough pitching- EVER.
–
Atlanta Insight: Top 5 Moments in ATL Sports History – http://bit.ly/atlblog
ScottBravesFan
July 29th, 2011
1:26 am
Zach Wheeler is a much better prospect than Mike Minor. Not sure where you are getting your information that the Mets would have taken Minor for Beltran straight up but if they took that deal over Wheeler then they would have looked silly.
Mike
July 29th, 2011
8:59 am
No way Wren wins in this trade or no trade situation. If he trades, half of you will say he has mortgaged the future and the other half will say he didn’t get enough in return. I remember the famous trade with TX.
SpiritofNokahoma
July 29th, 2011
9:03 am
I think it’s pathetic that the Braves minor league system hasn’t developed and promoted more outfielders that can hit.
showmekid
July 29th, 2011
9:26 am
I couldn’t disagree with you more. Too many times in the past, we have given away top prospects for the short term rental of an old has been (not that Beltran fits that discription other than being short term). Sure we are riddled with injuries right now, but I like the prospects of McClouth, Schaefer and Hayward in the outfield, if they can come around with their hitting prowess.
Maybe we have a lot of pitching prospects right now, but many things can happen-I don’t think that you can have too many pitching prospects. If we were to trade for someone who has great prospects and would be around for a long time, I would agree with a trade. Otherwise, let’s develop what we have and be a little more patient.
ane
July 29th, 2011
9:37 am
The prospect of mclout playing the OF in the future is frightening. His batting avg, mental mistakes and fileding leave alot to be desiresd. Especially his salary, if he made a million a yr. it would still be too much. He is the weakest of the OF. It’s more fun watching Prado or Hinske, they are both better offensively than mclout, what’s he make 7 m a yr? One of the major problems with the braves is lack of local ownership. Libery media out in CO. couldn’t give a rats ass about the braves. As long as wren keeps the team within the budget, he will keep his job.
braves are pretenders!!
July 29th, 2011
9:59 am
Why would anyone question the genius Wren? I mean this guy is the reason the braves are stuck with 3 over the hill veterens that make up half of the braves payroll. Thus, the braves have no money to make any bigtime moves, and this idiot will have to go out and get another washed up player on the cheap to try and put a bandaid on this huge sore the braves have called hitters.No G.M. in his right mind would have given Lowe a 4 yr. deal at over $15 million at his age. And no manager would have resigned Hudson after major elbow surgery to a 3 year deal. They would have maybe given him 2 years and see how he was going to holdup, and the chipper extention is the worst deal I have ever seen. Everyone knows this guy has been injury prone and that you are lucky to get 100 games out of him, yet this genius G.M. gives him 3 or 4 more years at $15 million or whatever the hell he is making. He should give back the braves half of his salary every year, because he only plays half the games. Dump these 3 clowns and the braves would have about 45 million per year to go get whatever bat or bats they need, and then they don’t even have to worry about the young arms. This is the worst managed team from the G.M. to the manager on the field Fredi the moron, in the N.L. Look what the Phils G.M. did with $45 million. He went out and bought the 2 best free agent pitchers the last decade(Haladay,and Lee), and these guys are legit, they aren’t inconsistent like the young braves arms(Hanson, and J.J.) and hey have won bigtime games in the playoffs. Braves=Pretenders, and always will be as long as they have current Management.
TC
July 29th, 2011
10:15 am
Put Minor in a package for Quinton. First round pick Gilmartin will be ready in a year or so, making Minor expendable. Work on signing Quniton long term and keep the young arms.