Braves or Falcons: Who’s taking bigger risk minus big move?
"So Chipper: What do you think we should do before the trade deadline?"
Over the next few days, how the Braves and Falcons are viewed could change significantly. Or not at all. Here’s the question: Which team would be taking the bigger risk by doing nothing?
The breakdown:
♦ Baseball’s non-waiver trade deadline is Sunday. The feeling here is that the Braves need to do something.
Loading ...I wasn’t completely convinced of this. But when center fielder Jordan Schafer’s finger injury turned out to be a slight bone chip and not just a sprain, and Chipper Jones tweaked his quadriceps in his first game back from a knee injury, it raised the level of concern. Adding Carlos Beltran to the rotation of outfielders — he can play center or right field, possibly in a platoon with the struggling Jason Heyward — would be huge. I know some are pushing for Houston’s Hunter Pence instead, but given that Pence is a 28-year-old batting .308, logic says he would cost significantly more in a trade — and there’s no certainty general manager Frank Wren even wants to give the New York Mets pitching prospect Mike Minor for Beltran.
♦ The Falcons decided to go the route of offense at the top of their draft, taking Alabama wide receiver Julio Jones. But now that the lockout is over and free agency is here, the defense needs to be addressed.
I know some fans were upset with the drafting of Jones, given that their last view of the Falcons had the defense getting dismembered by the Green Bay Packers. But the offense needed another game-breaker, somebody who can change the tone of a game. Jones does that
But now, the pass rush must be improved. There are increasing indications that the Falcons may be priced out of the market for the likes of Ray Edwards and Carolina’s Charles Johnson. General manager Thomas Dimitroff’s focus right now appears to be on keeping the bulk of the starting offensive line intact, particularly tackle Tyson Clabo and guard Harvey Dahl. That would be a positive. But to assume the defense is going to get better just because Peria Jerry will be another year removed from a major injury and other young players will be further along is risky.
Who would be taking the bigger risk by doing nothing? It’s close. But I’ll say the Falcons. The Braves showed their resiliency last season after a flurry of injuries. Adding Beltran or Pence turns a strong team into a potential World Series team. But if the Falcons don’t add a pass rusher, they’re banking on a lot of things going right, particularly with their front four.
Ideally, both franchises make a move.
What are your thoughts — who’s taking the bigger risk with no move?
By Jeff Schultz
♦
Previously: Blank will repay staff for payroll cuts during lockout
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186 comments Add your comment
Fish Bisch
July 26th, 2011
9:29 am
The Braves are fading fast. No playoffs this year without a big splash.
JYD
July 26th, 2011
9:29 am
GATA
TLanceB
July 26th, 2011
9:30 am
Braves
They have the Phillies ahead of them and they have the most holes of the teams fighting for the playoffs in the National League. Schafer is headed to the DL, Uggla isn’t hitting his weight (i’m guessing Dan is 209 lbs, minimum, he’s hitting .195), The best three relievers are overworked, and Heyward and Chipper are made of paper mache.
The Falcons need defensive help but they added a wide receiver with big play potential. Even if they don;’t add Ray Edwards, they can score 24 to 27 a game and win 12.
The Braves will not advance further without a right handed outfield bat, and another relief pitcher.
PMC
July 26th, 2011
9:30 am
It depends on the goals of the team.
The Falcons seem like they want to win the superbowl. So if that’s the case, if they want to win in the playoffs and at least make the NFC championship game they have to improve the pass rush with a higher quality more proficient defensive end, to bolster their roster and depth. They have to. The Braves goals are different.
The Braves aren’t really trying to win. See the 88M payroll. See the incredibly pathetic outfield (Prado doesn’t count he’s an infielder) See the Aged left side of the infield. See the stock pile of hot minor league prospects. The Braves are trying to be a decent club that’s in the hunt and interesting enough to sell tickets They aren’t trying to win championships. If they were, they’d have better position players. All they do is stockpile pitching.
MatthewH
July 26th, 2011
9:31 am
Falcons need D-Line help. Another bat would be nice fore the Braves, but they need to get the bats they have to start hitting. So, I say Falcons.
AJC Editor
July 26th, 2011
9:32 am
Schultz – Who is your editor? Unacceptable.
“and center fielder Chipper Jones tweaked his quadriceps in his first game back from a knee injury, it raised the level of concern.”
Fish Bisch
July 26th, 2011
9:33 am
I was also hoping the falcons would get rid of Christopher Owens. He was targeted the most by Rodgers and continually got burned.
MatthewH
July 26th, 2011
9:33 am
Sorry,should be “for”. Guess my mind is on the golf course.
peacengrits75
July 26th, 2011
9:33 am
Caught two typos…but who’s counting? They both need to make some kind of move…period.
WE DAT
July 26th, 2011
9:35 am
Falcons have an ultimatum ahead of them, keep your offensive line in tact or go for a HR with C. Johnson or Edwards. No move is a bad one. If i give up one prospect it’s Mike Minor. Beltran’s bat is super hot and could possibly put us over the phils for the play-offs.
SeenThisB4
July 26th, 2011
9:37 am
The Braves, by default. It doesn’t matter what the falcan’ts do, keep their OLinemen or spend money on a DE, it won’t matter, they don’t have the “it” factor this year. And worse for them, their foundation is cracked and seeping and they don’t even know it,….yet.
bibbs
July 26th, 2011
9:37 am
im not sure, but hasnt beltran proven to be a bit fragile over the years? this looks strictly like a rental. is minor too much to give up for that? with our wealth of pitching i think we could make significant trades in the off season and not be forced into a deal now. If gonzo and heyward continue to strike out more often then not and chipper doesnt stay healthy, its not gonna matter this year anyway
oldmike
July 26th, 2011
9:39 am
If the Braves indeed want to be legitimate contenders this year they need to make a major move. The addition of Beltran will improve their everyday lineup immeasurably. Even if it costs Minor so be it. How many well pitched games have we lost because we simply can’t muster enough runs? Lots this year folks. Heyward needs some time in Triple A to work on his mechanics. Gonzalez at short is a total waste. You could carry hsi pathetic average for his defense if the team had pop at other positions. But with the 2 thirds of the outfield hitting under .230 we can’t afford his lack of production and be competitive. Falcons need a pass rusher from the edge. Whatever Mr. Blank has to pony up to make that happen must be done. So the quick answer, Jeff, is they both need to make a splash. Slight edge to the Braves.
Hillbilly D
July 26th, 2011
9:41 am
The Falcons need help on both lines; the Braves are ahead of everybody but the Phillies. Trading for a 2 month Beltran rental would be a panic move, in my opinion. Not as bad as the Len Barker deal, (assuming they don’t give away Butler/Jacoby quality players) but still not good.
OEJ
July 26th, 2011
9:43 am
The Falcons are bieng very stupid by not trying to find a pass rusher. looking at who we have now, we wont get it done. DEFENSE wins games. Yes we have the opportunity to score alot of points, but what happens when we face a good defense and we cant score. If our defense cant stop anyone then we wont win. I hope these guys step up on the field or Dimitroff is going to feel real dumb by not taking advantage of free agency..I gurantee if the defense is not better than last year, ther will be alot of upset Falcons fans because what I saw last year needs a lot of improvement.
Delbert D.
July 26th, 2011
9:47 am
The Braves may not win the wild card, and I doubt that Beltran would be a big enough addition. Need to reassess at the end of the series with the Pirates.
SouthernFriedSkeptic
July 26th, 2011
9:49 am
I think you have to consider the overall repercussions of making a move. The Falcons, operating under a cap will have to make sacrifices to other areas of the team if they make a big move. Letting Snelling or half the O line go to make room for a big defensive FA may turn out brilliant or could come back to bite us if we plug one hole just to see the team spring a leak elsewhere.
The Braves on the other hand might could make a deal without sacrificing talent on the team (though they may have to give up some promising prospects). If they can get a solid bat in the lineup and maybe a bullpen arm to prevent appearance by Proctor, then it would be worth giving up minor or another non-Teheran prospect since we have so much depth at the position. (Don’t forget Medlen and Moylan are coming back soon as well).
BullDogMike
July 26th, 2011
9:57 am
No trade for a big bat for the middle of the line-up equals no play-off this year…that’s a fact.
Joey
July 26th, 2011
9:57 am
The Braves. They only need another piece or two to get them to title contention.
The Falcons need a couple more defensive playmakers, but more than anything else, will need a different offensive philosophy to win in the playoffs. And that ain’t gonna happen anytime soon.
El Bravo
July 26th, 2011
10:00 am
The Falcons are in greater need of a move. The window of opportunity in the NFL is very small. The Falcons are primed to make a run to the SB over the next two years provided they make bold moves to bolster their defense. The Braves can make the wildcard with their current team. They also have a very large window of opportunity with their stable of young pitchers. Over the next two years we will have a ton of big contracts coming of the books (McClouth, Chipper, Lowe, Hudson) and an abundance of young pitching talent coming up (Teheran, Viscaino, Delgado, Medlen, Minor). That young pitching talent will give us the flexibility to court top-shelf free agents over the next few years. We could have the best pitching staff for the next decade and contend for multiple World Series…
Rowland Office Worker
July 26th, 2011
10:07 am
I am afraid I must agree with PMC. The Braves are trying to get as much as they can for the least amount of money. While that may make good business sense, it will not bring a championship to Atlanta. I have been trying to find the Braves’ financial reports on line this morning but can not find anything more recent than 2008. (Which shows a net profit of some $73 million,according to Forbes). While we all know that baseball is a business, if the ownership’s goal is to make a profit instead of win championships, then they will reach their goal. Unfortunately for the fans our goals will not be met. All that to say that the Brave’s need to make a move to prove to the fan base they want to win a World Series. If they make some minor move for a right handed hitting platoon player instead of an impact player, we will have our answer.
El Bravo
July 26th, 2011
10:12 am
Also, we will be able to shore up the bullpen with Viscaino, Teheran, Chapman, Lopez, Abreu or Delgado when rosters expand (or even before then if we decide to call any of them up).
NC Dawg
July 26th, 2011
10:14 am
Braves acquire Pence for Minor and 2 other minor leagers. Beltran is too injury prone and wouldn’t be around next year. Effort is made to sign Pence to multi-year extension.
Sonny Clusters
July 26th, 2011
10:15 am
We’d like to tip our cap to everybody this morning. tip, tip, tip. We aren’t usually cap tippers but you have to tip your cap to a team that can’t hit behind a runner, hit the cutoff man, or run the bases with conviction and can still attract fans to the ballpark. We’d also like to tip our cap to Chipper for hitting a homerun even though he’d already asked out of the game with a new tweak. Tweaking is normal for Chipper and we understand his Bobblehead is going to come with a built-in tweak. Booing is something Atlanta fans don’t do much of unless your name is Dan Kolb but some of the current Braves better get ready to hear some boos if they don’t get things going pretty soon. From 2 1/2 games back they have fallen like rocks.
El Bravo
July 26th, 2011
10:16 am
Talented young lefties don’t grow on trees. You do not give up Minor for a 35 year old, three month rental. Were we getting a young, talented outfielder in return it would be a different story…
PMC
July 26th, 2011
10:19 am
I would tip my cap for a blizzard.
TommyP
July 26th, 2011
10:25 am
Beltran in a possible platoon with Heyward?????? WTH?
They’re not giving up all those prospects to bring in Beltran to platoon. LOL
juice sourcer
July 26th, 2011
10:27 am
The braves…no way they can keep winning with 4 regulars hitting at or below the Mendosa line…smoke and mirrors works for only so long and the pitching can’t overcome this for 162 games.
Jeff Schultz
July 26th, 2011
10:29 am
Fish Bisch — Not a fade, but a hiccup. And they’ll make the playoffs.
Brandon
July 26th, 2011
10:29 am
I’m going to have to say the Braves take the bigger risk. To not deal from a position of incredible strength and have a clear, needed piece in the fold for the push would be foolish. The Falcons were the number one team last year and are poised to be able to do that again. They need a move yes but I think we can expect good things. I’m not sure the pitching will hold up this year for the Braves w/out more offense. Plus, we simply cannot count on Chipper making it through the season. I love him but can’t count on it at this point.
Old Blue
July 26th, 2011
10:31 am
I would tip my hat for the Gonzalez move to leadoff hitter. For at least one time, he would come to the plate and not hit into a rally killing double play and his strikeout would not be as great a factor.
Jeff Schultz
July 26th, 2011
10:31 am
NC Dawg — Yes, Beltran would be a rental and Pence would be a more permanent lineup change. But I’d be surprised if Wren made that kind of deal now. Just my opinion.
Jeff Schultz
July 26th, 2011
10:33 am
SouthernFriedSkeptic — You make good points. Braves not dealing with a salary cap (just a self-imposed one) and Falcons are. Braves have prospects to deal, Falcons have only draft picks (and trades are far less common in NFL). But bottom line is both teams in position to do something.
DawgFan
July 26th, 2011
10:39 am
Giving away Minor for Beltran could be seen as a Smoltz-for-Alexander type deal, but you have to look at what we are trying to accomplish. The Lineup needs a bat, and Minor isn’t going to provide that. We have pitching to spare without touching 90% of our farm system. Then again, Minor could go on to be a Roger Clemens-like player and lock down ten Cy Young awards. You never know, but you can’t let fear of the uncertain slow you down.
As for the Falcons, we got torched in one game. Granted, it was an important game, but still only one game. You don’t fall into the mindset of wholesale changes or panic mode because of one game. You assess the situation and figure out what needs to be fixed. The glaring need is a pass-rushing DE. There are two on the market who are still decently early in their careers and might make some noise for the Falcons D. I would say that this Falcons team is close to great things, but I know there are some Saints fans lurking around and just waiting to tell us how the Falcons will go 0-16 next year and how the Saints are the greatest team ever.
longtime bulldog
July 26th, 2011
10:45 am
Relax, there is plenty of baseball to be played.Even if the Braves do not make a move they have the talent to go far in the playoffs.We should get behind this team and help them achieve their goal.Do not give up 5 minutes before the miracle occurs.
extremus
July 26th, 2011
10:46 am
The NFL has a MUCH more unforgiving ceiling for championship aspirations than the crapshoot that is MLB playoff baseball, so the Falcons bear a far larger burden in this area than the Braves. I think the percentage of responses the Braves got here is at least partially based on the fact that the Braves are playing NOW as opposed to the Falcons; I would NOT have a great feeling if the NFL season started today without some moves having been made.
The Braves could clinch the Wild Card (a division title is looking less likely, though not totally impossible) with the pieces they have now…and though the odds are against it given how lousy the offense has been against even AVERAGE pitching, if they are hot at the right time they could bring home a World Series trophy.
Contrast that with the Falcons, who KNOW they likely won’t get past the likes of Green Bay or other current NFL powers without addressing weaknesses that those teams can and WILL exploit as they did last season. A strong defensive pass rush (and anything else that can improve the team) is an absolute MUST HAVE; they won’t go any further than they did last year without it.
mountain_jim
July 26th, 2011
10:53 am
I guess the new cap rules hurt the Falcons? Because they were indicating before lockout that now was the time and they needed to get more explosive on both sides of ball. How is keeping the Oline going to fix the sack-less dline? Those oliners are just average anyway, Ryan helps them out by getting ball out fast. I was thinking all of the young oliners drafted last 2 years would take over, and the FA money would go to the big DE I think they need.
Not happy to hear that is apparently not going to happen. Hope it;s a smiokescreen and they pry the Charlotte DE CJ away.
ryan
July 26th, 2011
10:54 am
I agree Braves are more likely to make a trade the Falcons will get a DE but a cheap one i think its smart move by focusing on the O- line .
the truth...
July 26th, 2011
10:56 am
To get to the Playoffs the Braves MUST get an infusion if not a transfustion of offense AND now pitching as well.
Beltran may provide te offensive boost, but is fragile himself AND is a “PURE RENTAL” meaning no draft pick comes back when this season is over. So his price is Minor….who for lots of other teams would be a starter now….
Either Pence and or Bourn would provide an impact but would cost considerably more; the upside would be that they provide some longer term offense and are established major league players, whose positions we have few or no Minor League prospects.
Then we have the Proctor bleeding….and that HAS to be stopped. Moylan and Medlen were projected to be back in August but now Medlen won’t be back until September if then.
So Pitching is now a major as is Offense….
Chipper is 38 and physically his legs aren’t holding up too well; how much more can we expect of him?
Bottom line is we have holes in our armor….come October we could be watching instead of playing if some major moves are not made….
Don Green
July 26th, 2011
10:59 am
I think the Braves need to make 2 moves. A right handed or switch hitting OF and a decent reliever that can give Venters and Kembrel a break. I think they are going to be worn out by September.
The problem I see with Beltran is that he is only hitting .232 against lefthanded pitching. Upton is only hitting .226 against left handed pitching.
I’d go all in on Pence or Rasmus (even if he is left handed). At least even if you don’t want to pay them next year, they have great market value for another trade next year.
Braves have to do something to jump start the team.
JackDennis
July 26th, 2011
11:01 am
Even with a healthy Schafer, Braves need more production out of center field. Is it me, or does
Schafer have a bit of an attitude?
twar
July 26th, 2011
11:02 am
The facts would suggest that payroll rules. Within that, the Braves have an opportunity to compete for the end goal NOW! For the team, for Chipper, each player wishes to win it all. For the fans, each one wishes to win it all. The next two months can be a most important piece to the legacy of winning. Without taking a major hit to the budget, winning it all is possible with “renting” the right player at the right time at the right price. Whether it be Minor or Major, it is time to drive the stake in the ground for winning now and next year. Welcome Bertran and best of luck to Minor.
Regarding football and the Falcons, that ball never did bounce right due to its odd shape. This is baseball season.
the truth...
July 26th, 2011
11:02 am
@DawgFan
You might want to stick to football after the analogy of the Smoltz-Alexander deal. A Minor-Beltran deal would give the Braves 2-3 months of Beltran and givs the Mets Minor for 5 years plus….
That is nothing like the Smoltz-Alexander deal…..in that one we got Smoltz for his career and Detroit got Alexander for 2-3 months or 1 1/2 years, can’t remember which…
On top of that if Beltran did not resign we would get ZERO compensation as in an additional draft pick.
the truth...
July 26th, 2011
11:04 am
@DawgFan
Oh…forgot, to sign Beltran beyond this year his cost would be projected at $17mil upwards….
Not going to do that for sure….
DawgFan
July 26th, 2011
11:12 am
@the truth…
My analogy of te Smoltz/Alexander deal was meant as the feeling that Braves fans would have in comparison to the feeling Tigers fans had after the deal. If Minor played out as a great pitcher, we’d probably feel pretty bad about it. Also, I’m pretty sure that when we traded for Smoltz we didn’t get him for the remainder of his career, we got him for the remainder of his contract, and then re-signed him.
jeff
July 26th, 2011
11:13 am
why no rumors on Matt Kemp? he would be the big fix the Braves need.
Don Green
July 26th, 2011
11:14 am
I think trading for Pence, Bourn, Upton or Rasmus is the smart move. If you are really concerned about the salary aspect, trade them during the off season. At least you have a chance to get value in return. If we go with Beltran you’ve got nothing to trade at season’s end. Plus I think Chipper is probably going to retire so you could afford another player next season.
This team really needs a spark plug at the top of the line up. Just in the last few days we have seen what players with speed, like Stubbs and McCutchen can do to spark a team. The Braves are sooooooooo slow, they just plod from base to base.
Jerious Norwood
July 26th, 2011
11:15 am
Hopefully the Falcons will take a hint from the Thrashers and move away!!!
Seen (The Aints) This (get obliterated) B4 (by the only sub-.500 playoff team in the history of pro football)
July 26th, 2011
11:22 am
Clearly the Braves. They barely hold on for the Wild Card if they don’t make a move NOW. The Birds can still compete as constructed, but still should make some moves (#1 is cutting Jamal Anderson TODAY).
the truth...
July 26th, 2011
11:25 am
@DawgFan
Smoltz was a kid and had no restrictions on us signing him and in those days there was no arbitration, etc. So we got a super hot prospect who is now a Hall of Famer….cheap at the time, and nothing but upside….Alexander was almost done and we had no playoff aspirations…
Beltran is a fragile super star who has nothing holding him back from going back to the Mets as the Free Agent he becomes after the 2011 World Series…incidentally Beltran has reportedly told the Mets he would consider resigning with them….
If it were a certainty that Beltran would take us to the WS it would be different….that is not for sure in any stretch of the imagination….just not guaranteed….
Reality
July 26th, 2011
11:28 am
Jerry is an absolute bust (injured or ineffective). just yesterday we read that the Falcons were in great shape under the new cap with plenty of room to acquire osme big pieces. Today we read that hours after the CBA is ratified, they are priced out of the market. Nothing new here, sounds like the Braves…
speaking of which: The offense has actually gotten worse and the pitching has become average. Alex G., Heyward, McOut, Schafer, and Uggla are automatic outs. They have the worst offensive outfield in memory-just awful (I’d rather see Hudson bat then Gonzales) As such, I wouldn’t trade anything at this point because one player won’t fix this mess. The Braves should actually be sellers and build for a the long term with a stronger foundation.
If it is a foregone conclusion that Beltran can’t be signed because he is a Boras guy, then the same holds for Hanson and JJ. How many years before their contracts are due? They will never have enough money to keep their stars so they may as well get even younger.
I know it sounds crazy, but no way the Braves beat the Phils in the playoffs anyway. The Braves have played way over their head this year and are 6 games back and falling fast. If you consider 14 postseason failures in the last 15 tries, is this team really going to be the one that breaks through? There is no way. Some years the incumbent is so strong it makes sense to plan a stronger run in future years.
Hillbilly D
July 26th, 2011
11:35 am
Salary arbitration predates the Alexander-Smoltz deal, I believe. I’m thinking it goes back to the late 70’s, early 80’s. Anybody know the year?
Alexander went 9-0 for Detroit that year after the trade and Detroit won the AL East. He pitched two more years after that.
Jeff Schultz
July 26th, 2011
11:36 am
JackDennis — Some were turned off by Schafer when he first came up (thought he was cocky) but that definitely isn’t an issue now. He’s grounded, humbled.
Trojan
July 26th, 2011
11:39 am
If we trade a top pitching, we should atleast get someone to help with the massive hole in the OF next year.
CW
July 26th, 2011
11:41 am
Braves need to add a middle reliver more than another bat.
DawgFan
July 26th, 2011
11:41 am
@ thetruth…
I understand your viewpoint. I’m trying to say that we might, and likely would, regret a deal for Beltran. I would rather us get him than Philly, if only for the fact that the last thing we need is for Philly to get more offense.
Reality -
Really? Last I checked we still have a 3 or 4 game lead in the Wild Card and the division isn’t sown up yet. We’ve been this far out and won it before. It’s not the best move to throw our hands up in the air and say “Well, we’ll wait til next year.”
Reality
July 26th, 2011
11:46 am
How is Heyward really much different than Francoeur was? At this point in their careers JF was actually much better-hitting for higher average and a ton more production. Anybody think Heyward will have over 100 RBIs anytime soon? Heyward has 27 RBIs (11 of those were from his own homers). He has knocked in 16 runs other than nimself. Wow, that’s pretty bad.
the truth...
July 26th, 2011
11:48 am
One site rated the Worst Trades in History….(who knows for sure but….?)
Number 4…..
4. Tigers send John Smoltz to Braves for Doyle Alexander (Aug. 12, 1987)
Alexander was the perfect hired gun for the Tigers — the 36-year-old righty went 9-0 with a 1.53 ERA in 11 starts for Detroit, and the Tigers won the AL East pennant (they lost the ALCS in five games to the Twins, a series in which Doyle was 0-2 with a 10.00 ERA). Alexander went 20-29 over the next two seasons for Detroit, then retired.
Smoltz, of course, was one of the Braves’ trio of great starters (Tom Glavine and Greg Maddux are the other two) through their incredible 1990s. In 1989, his first full season as a starter, he went 12-11 with a 2.94 ERA. He’s been a four-time All-Star, won the 1996 Cy Young Award, and has gone 12-4 with a 2.72 ERA in 20 postseason series. After arm troubles in 2000 and 2001, he moved to the bullpen and has become baseball’s most effective closer, on pace for 60 saves in 2002.
That was only thru 2002….
ted williams head
July 26th, 2011
11:48 am
the braves by far. the falcons won 13 games last year as presently constructed
Don Green
July 26th, 2011
11:49 am
If we are going to rent a player like Beltran, wouldn’t we be better off trying to rent Jose Reyes at SS from them ? He is a free agent at the end of the year and would be a real sprk plug for the rest of the season. Getting Gonzalez out of the day to day line up would be a plus.
riggo
July 26th, 2011
11:49 am
Could someone teach Heyward to stop rocking away from the plate when he’s at bat
Eddie C.
July 26th, 2011
11:50 am
DawgFan:
If the goal is another WC and early playoff exit, then yes, by all means trade for Beltran. And BTW, yes, the division is sown up. Of course, Halliday, Lee and/or Hammels could fall down an elevator shaft-so yeas, the Braves still have a chance. Probably more likley that things go the way they have and the Braves finish 10 or 12 games back.
Hillbilly D
July 26th, 2011
11:53 am
Doyle Alexander went 14-11 in 1988, and made the AL All-Star team. His last year, 1989, he was 6-18.
My view of the Smoltz-Alexander trade has always been that both teams got what they were looking for. Detroit was looking for immediate help to get them over the hump to win the AL East. Remember at that time, there were 2 divisions in each league and no wild card. The Braves were looking for a young pitcher who could be around for a while. They both got what they were after, which is how a good trade works.
the truth...
July 26th, 2011
11:55 am
Reality….
we’ve played the Phillies about even this year….here are the facts for head to head:
12 games 6 wins 6 losses
Don Green
July 26th, 2011
11:59 am
Heyward and Gonzalez look totally lost at the plate. Very disappointing indeed.
When we throw a line up out there that includes Heyward, Gonzalez,McLouth, and Shaefer it is like adding 4 pitchers to your line up. Just pathetic that these guys can’t at least hit .250 to .270 at this level. At least Uggla is starting to come around and is at least a huge threat to hit a HR even if his average is terrible.
mountain_jim
July 26th, 2011
12:01 pm
Concerning the Braves, at this point I don’t see how you don’t fire the hitting coach. Gonzo and Heyward have regressed big-time this year, seem to have no clue and no plan at the plate and Heyward has so many holes in his swing it’s terrible. There does not seem to be anyone in charge of making any changes to these at-the-plate failures.
MARK
July 26th, 2011
12:02 pm
PROCTOR,HEYWARD,MINOR FOR PENCE
Hatfieldgeoff
July 26th, 2011
12:04 pm
I agree with PMC on a previous post. Braves are not intested in adding anything significant to this team. Their ownership is not going to let them spend any more money. And they can’t take on Beltran’s salary without the Mets picking up a huge portion of it. The mets aren’t going to do that unless we give them Minor. Which the Braves seem reluctant to do (from what I have seen he doesn’t look like a Cy Young is in his future). Pence seems to be too expensive. I don’t want to give away all our future talent for a .308 hitter, although it would be great to have him. The other names are too much of a gamble we don’t need another Derek Lee. The Falcons must get at least one defensive free agent to bolster that unit. But they do need to hand onto the Offensive line and Snelling. They should have signed Claybo last year and their would be less pressure now. We are going to find out about Arthur Blank in the next few days. If he is serious about winning this is not the time to get cheap. He needs to spend or the Falcons window of opportunity will close quicker than you think.
Dawg'88
July 26th, 2011
12:05 pm
Hey Schultz….Looks like Spurrier has lost control at SCU. Why no discussion of his lack of discipline with Garcia. Now the kid’s coach is doing the same. Watch the hypocracy of SOS. He will suspend from games or fire the coach period. What message will that send?
Reality
July 26th, 2011
12:08 pm
Truth:
I think that actually goes back farther. Over the last 2 years I believe we are dead even with the Phils. The problem is, they are far more consistent than the Braves. You are correct in that the Braves COULD beat the Phils in a short series. The Phils have classic power pitchers who dominate in the playoffs though (they don’t lose much during the regular season either).
I just wouldn’t sell-out to try to beat them this year. If other teams are desperate for pieces and willing to make stupid trades, my thought is, why not offer something to the desperate? It’s a much better position than entering negotiations in obvious need. trade deadline moves don’t usually do much anyway. Derrick Lee was beyond awful last year. That trade actually cost dearly us because Cox robotically plugged him into the cleanup spot every night. It was like Alex G. hitting cleanup.
Trapper John
July 26th, 2011
12:11 pm
Read all posts. Braves are falling apart. McCann can’t even hit anymore! Doesn’t the rot start from the top? Unless someone, or something — doesn’t light a fire under them — this team won’t even be a wild card. It’s a crying shame. Get somebody before the deadline to at least show you’re trying. I would personally start with the rookie “no clue” manager. I think his ineptitude filters down into the players — especially the veteran guys like Chipper. Everybody wants another bat. How ’bout another manager in mid-stream??????
Don Green
July 26th, 2011
12:13 pm
What do you think it would take to pry Colby Rasmus away from the Cardinals ? Rasmus is in the doghouse and is essentially the 4th outfielder for them these days. I know he is a left handed hitter but he is actually hitting well against lefties (.256). The guy is going to be a stud. He can run, he can play any OF position and he can hit for power.
Cardinals need starting pitching. What about Lowe for Rasmus ?
Hatfieldgeoff
July 26th, 2011
12:13 pm
Mountain Jim, I know what you mean. But we could go through a hitting coach once a month. The Braves hitters do seem to have regressed. Gonzo should try hitting with both feet on the ground that would be a good start. He is reaching for everything. Heyward’s problem has been mentioned by everybody. He is too far from the plate. But nobody seems willing to force the issue. Sounds like it was with Francouer. I like Heyward but for all the hoopla he hasn’t done squat. A decent rookie season marred by injuries and now he is batting .220 Maybe we could package him in a trade for Pence. It would take a huge pair to do it, but it could be a great move. I am not so sure Heyward is going to realize the potential everyone seems to see.
Reality
July 26th, 2011
12:16 pm
If there is a silver lining it’s that the Braves are propping the Pirates up. Phillies can’t beat the Pirates. Maybe they will win their division and beat the Phils in round 1.
Instead of trading for Beltran, Let’s cut Proctor…that’s at least 4 or 5 games in the standings and won’t cost us a thing!!
Tech Tard
July 26th, 2011
12:23 pm
Would someone please tell me where Pence is going to play? I really wish we would trade Chipper!!! At least he would be closer to his ranch and we all know he hates playing into October. Its bow season yall!!! Watch out Hooters girls!
captguitarman
July 26th, 2011
12:26 pm
Got to give the Bravos credit for what they have achieved so far with good pitching. But the idea that they are starting to fade as the second half begins is starting to sink in. The pitching staff has carried the load, and it is not reasonable to think that they can continue at the first half level without some fatique, slumps (pitchers have slumps just like hitters do) a few more mistakes. But pitching for the Braves, starter of reliever, the pitchers know that there are not going to be enough runs to provide padding against any mistakes he might make. Of course, there are blow outs from time to time, winning and losing, but day to day, just getting enough runs to win a mistake free, well-pitched game has been, and continues to be, a huge challenge. Either reach out and pick up another high quality pitcher, starter or reliever, and commit to winning it on pitching, and then learn to draw walks more effectively, run the bases and steal more aggressively, and learn the lost art of bunting and squeeze plays, so you can get at least one run with no one out and someone on second or third . . . or, get a high quality bat and start with extended batting practices every day – and perhaps bring in a good hitting consultant. But do something. The Braves will never catch Philly, and the Wild Card berth is obviously not a sure thing.
DawgFan
July 26th, 2011
12:27 pm
Eddie C – I’m not supporting a trade for Beltran. I’m saying it would probably hurt us if Philly landed him. I’d like to see Pence come to Atlanta, but the ‘Stros say that ain’t happening. If forced to choose between Beltran and Upton, I would take Upton, because I think he’s got more time left in him, and he’s got the potential to turn his career around. The biggest thing going for Beltran is that he is an extra-base-hit machine this year. He may actually have more extra base haits than the entire Braves lineup combined.
Don Green
July 26th, 2011
12:28 pm
How about a deal like this with the Astros:
OF Hunter Pence, OF Micael Bourn, SS Clint Barmes, RP Mark Melancon for OF Jason Heyward and SP Mike Minor.
Kyle
July 26th, 2011
12:31 pm
The Falcons would be taken the bigger risk because Arthur Blank wants and expects to win. Who knows who owns the Braves anymore but as long as they are getting a profit I’m sure they don’t care what they do. After watching the last week if anyone around that team cares you wouldn’t know it.
Tech Tard
July 26th, 2011
12:31 pm
Ha!!!!!!!!!!
Joe Tess Fish House
July 26th, 2011
1:01 pm
Both teams R domed if they keep doin the same things in the passed.
Braves hire a loosing managar with a loosing record. Fix that first.
FLacons keep waisting draft picks in the fist round. Cant wait 2 see how much of a bust this Juliet Jones will be just so I can say I told u so.
LAC
July 26th, 2011
1:01 pm
hawks need to move to Seattle ASAP, worthless team, lying owners and why this league is here is a TOTAL waste of time, Seattle PLEASE come take them AWAY !
Don Green
July 26th, 2011
1:12 pm
I’d like this line up as an improvment:
1. CF- M. Bourn
2. LF- M. Prado
3. 3B- C. Jones
4. C- B. McCann
5. 1B- F. Freeman
6. 2B- D. Uggla
7. RF- J. Heyward
8. SS- A. Gonzalez
Holoman
July 26th, 2011
1:20 pm
Easy decision Jeff. Don’t resign Jerious Norwood or Michael Jenkins and use their money for a top defensive end.
Braves need 7 new hitters unfortunately. How does 7 guys all slump at once ?
Dr. Phil
July 26th, 2011
1:20 pm
Talk of Hunter Pence is based on the assumption that Houston’s front office is as dumb as Wren. That trade won’t happen. It is pretty amazing that the Braves are where they are with the kind of hitting they have had all year. They may stumble into post season in the wild card, but it would likely be a repeat of last year. There is no way the Braves will catch the Phillies–now or later. All that being said, Fredi is due some credit for keeping them in the chase.
TruthSeeker
July 26th, 2011
1:22 pm
I know it’s a pipe dream, and I probably sound like a broken record, but the guy that could put the Falcons over the top is Nnamdi Asomugha. If you remember back to the playoff game against the Packers, Van Gorder dialed up a ton of blitzes and we were getting to Rodgers, but he was able to hit wide open receivers a split second before we could bring him to the ground. We may not be an elite pass rushing team, and another speed rusher would be great, but I think we can pressure the QB enough with the guys we currently have. What Asomugha would do is lock things up in the secondary to give our front seven that extra split second to knock down the passer.
Asomugha on one side, Dunta’ Robinson on the other and Brent Grimes in the nickel…man, the sky would be the limit.
Holoman
July 26th, 2011
1:24 pm
Jason Heyward = Michael Tucker. Not very good.
Don Green
July 26th, 2011
1:30 pm
The Astros might indeed make a deal. Pence makes $6.5 million and Bourn makes $4.4 million. Both are arbitration eligible and stand to potentially double their salary in 2012 and the new owner has said he wants to trim their payroll by almost $20 million, not add to it.
I know the Braves don’t want to spend money either, but if you didn’t want to pay them you could trade Pence or Bourn over the winter and get something in return. Better than renting Beltran.
Atticus
July 26th, 2011
1:31 pm
When will people figure this out??? McLouth is NOT the problem and Schafer being healthy is NOT the only answer. McLouth’s OBP is much higher than Schafers and is third on the team behind Mac and Freemen. The problem is we only have 3 relievers, we have had some bad injuries, we can’t hit LH pitchers and Gonzalez, Uggla (Until recently) and Heyward are hitting FAR below their average. And now the starting pitching is starting to come back to where it belongs—in the top but not the best. We need a RH hitter but they need to get on base, we don’t need another .240 hitter. Get Beltran.
TruthSeeker
July 26th, 2011
1:35 pm
“Talk of Hunter Pence is based on the assumption that Houston’s front office is as dumb as Wren.”
Given that the Astros’ GM is Ed Wade, that might be a fair assumption.
Don Green
July 26th, 2011
1:43 pm
Beltran is not the answer for this team. He is a switch hitter, but hits much, much worse agaisnt lefthanded pitching. He is hitting a mere .232 against left handed pitchers this year. There are much better and cheaper options for the Braves than Beltran that will help this team with what it needs much better. This team needs speed and needs speed badly. Just my opinion.
Branch Rickey
July 26th, 2011
1:44 pm
If it’s just Minor for Beltran, do it!
BTW, sounds like the Giants are now pursuing BJ Upton (according to ESPN).
Air Zaza
July 26th, 2011
1:49 pm
Falcons need Nnamdi
Braves need B.J. Upton
Bernard
July 26th, 2011
1:51 pm
Pence is the man if signed for several years ONLY!!!!!!!!…please
Jeff Schultz
July 26th, 2011
1:52 pm
Holoman — I like that plan.
Rafael
July 26th, 2011
1:52 pm
Frank “Burns” Wren is furiously working the phones as the trade deadline nears. The only problem is he’s not calling the METS, WHITE SOX, or ASTROS. Frank (firefrankwren.com) is calling Anthony’s Pizza and Pasta, Al’s Pizza House, the Varsity, Oasis Asian Spa (he receives a 10% Kawakami discount), and the Sun Sauna Spa.
Frank will use the $4.67 budget Liberty CHEAPIA gives him at the trading deadline and acquire Reed Johnson. Johnson will hit .360, 24 HRs, and 100 RBIs, PLUS his gold glove work in the outfield. NOT!!!!! Reed Johnson is a journeyman, pig-in-a-poke, bargain basement, garage sale BUM who cannot hit MLB pitching like most of the other Braves.
The Braves success with runners in scoring position is abyssmal!!! Needless to say Derek “Kawakami” Lowe gives up so many runs when he pitches now the boxscore looks like Darren Clarke’s early round scorecard at the British Open. Derek sure earns that 20 million he is still owed. 93TTG;O*$oR@@$#!!!!!!!!
D man
July 26th, 2011
1:57 pm
Falcons – they need to improve the defense to advance farther in the playoffs. They must add a CB and DE would help. The Braves are going to make the playoffs with this current team if they ever start hitting like they are capable of doing.
DawgFan
July 26th, 2011
1:59 pm
Joe Tess @ 1:01 -
Ouch. That hurt to read, bro.
Don Green @ 12:28 -
If Houston would do that deal, I’d probably sign off on it. As much as I think there’s a good upside to Heyward, there is an already-noted positive with Pence and Bourne. You might have to throw Gonzalez in on that, but it would probably even out a bit better.
Don Green
July 26th, 2011
2:00 pm
Yes, he is a journeyman, but actually Reed Johnson would be a smart pick up for the Braves. He wouldn’t cost any major prospects and he pounds left handed pitching. He is batting .356 this year against left handers.
Too tough
July 26th, 2011
2:11 pm
Trade A Gonzalez….he is an automatic out! non sacrificing, swing at the first pitch, hitn into a double play, pop up to the infield with runners in scoring position player..the other teams love to see him come to the plate.. He should bat 9th everygame…why is no one addressing this, and Fredi G…you need to call for a sac bunt sometimes…my goodness,,,we need hitters on this team or the Braves are DOOMED! I would be curious to know how many times this season have ANY of the Braves been able to hit a SAC fly with a runner on 3rd?
the truth...
July 26th, 2011
2:16 pm
Reality
Some HUGE talent problems for the Braves, that ares NOT fixed with our minor league prospects for who knows how long….”
1. 3B….replaciing Chipper….face it is upon us
2. SS…replacing Gonzo with a bat …..UPON US SIX MONTHS AGO
3. RF….Heyward’s NO BAT….
4. Middle Relief….Moylan close, Medlen next Spring
5. CF….maybe Schafer makes it…..IF NOT ?
Someone pointed out last night that if is pretty safe to say that it is unlikely that ALL of our top prospects make the transition and become stars….
So do we roll the dice on some of what we do have (we have NO cash)….top prospects… and use them to purchase pieces for the future?
Lastly, there is considerable chatter that Liberty will sell the Braves next Spring when they can and not lose the tax advantage they got when they took te team in the big Time Warner swap….In that case it is likely there would be several buyers that would change the finances immediately if they bought the team…
In that case everything is on the table…maybe that is a sure thing and Wren, Schuerholz and McGuirk know it; that would make them want to stand pat as much as possible…
Burfod DAWG fan
July 26th, 2011
2:21 pm
CAN N E 1 HELP ME FIND OUT WHEN THE FALCONS CAMPS OPEN? I WANT 2 TAKE MY SON TO GET MATT RYANS AOUTOGRAPH. LAST YEAR HE SNUBED US BUT I PROMISED MY BOY WE WOUD GET AN AUTOGRAPH.
ANY HELP WOULD BE GREATFUL.
Trapper John
July 26th, 2011
2:23 pm
Do something, anything, for the love of God. This team is getting too painful to watch as constructed…
Columbus
July 26th, 2011
2:27 pm
Braves would be worst off by far if they do not make a move.
Colby Rasmus I know he is LH but he makes much LESS than NATE. Get Rasmus, Nate’s contract is up and that immediately gives us a power hitting good outfielder for a few years and maybe 10 years. The timing is not good but I say GET RASMUS and a lower level RH hitter to split time with Schafer. He is from Columbus, GA.
Rasmus has so much potential you have to look at what it would cost to get him since the Cards want to trade him. He would be a HUGE upgrade over all our outfielders including Heyward.
the truth...
July 26th, 2011
2:30 pm
@Jeff
Thanks for a great blog today….guess the evening idiot loons are not trolling with all their drivel and stupid trash mouth jokes…..bringing nothing to the table but dumbness, racism and ignorance gone to seed….
Here in the afternoon it seems that there is a legitimate exchange of thoughts, opinions, ideas and actual respect between posters as to the difference in ideas….
Refreshing!!!!
Steve
July 26th, 2011
2:31 pm
The Braves are fading from playoff contension, and coulod use a new face to jump start their offense.They are injury ridden and have 2 unachievers that were counted on to hit alot more than they have.Unless they get help, I don’t see them making the playoffs.
The Falcons went 13-3 with the players they have now, before running into the hottest team in football in the 1st round of playoffs. The Falcons defense is young and will only get better. Adding Julio will help the offense and keep the defense off the field. The Braves definately need more help than the Falcons, although I don’t think the Falcons will have as much success this year as last.
the truth...
July 26th, 2011
2:34 pm
Despite Lowe’s record of success in the playoffs maybe we should prioritize selling him and his contract for next year…..that would assure us we could take on more salary next year….
I was opposed to moving him until now….I think we can match up with Philly without him….
Hudson, Hanson, Jurgens….Beachy to boot….
Holy Devil
July 26th, 2011
2:34 pm
I must agree about Heyward,Gonzo,and McOut. They are just 3 automatic outs in the line-up. If 500 of us can see it why can’t Wren & Fredi G see it ? I trun the tv to another channel when these 3 guys are at-bat…
Don Green
July 26th, 2011
2:34 pm
Too Toough @ 2:11 pm: Sadly the Braves are dead last in sacrifice flies this season. They have 12. The New York Mets lead the league with 33.
Columbus @2:27 pm: I agree with you 100%. If you can steal Rasmus, you have to do it. The guy is a 24 year old, 5 tool star and is in the doghouse in St. Louis right now. Even though he is left handed he actually is hitting better against LHP (.256) than RHP (.241) this year. I think the Cardinals would take Lowe for Rasmus and I’d make that deal in a heartbeat.
Holy Devil
July 26th, 2011
2:36 pm
Bottomline, Falcons are a playoff team as constructed and Braves aren’t. So Braves need help.
Holy Devil
July 26th, 2011
2:38 pm
Who is on the radar as far as a bat is concerned Jeff ? Pence,Beltran,A.Soriano,A.Jones ???
Barry
July 26th, 2011
2:40 pm
Braves need to make a move and FAST. Wren also needs to get rid of Alex Gonzalez FAST. He kills rallies every single game. Most of the time he’s either taking pitches over the plate for strike 3 or he’s swinging at balls in the dirt around his ankles or in the left handed batters box to strike out and stranding runners in scoring position CONSTANTLY.
Holy Devil
July 26th, 2011
2:40 pm
I’d trade Gonzo,McOut,and Heyward to Royals for Alex Gordon & Mitch Mousakas.
Rob
July 26th, 2011
2:40 pm
why is EVERY FREAKING story about pressuring Wren to make some BIG DEAL? ugh so predictable and nothing more than a ploy for attention. sorry, but it’s true. schafer and chipper played last night. the title reads like they are out for the season. really?!
Stinger2
July 26th, 2011
2:40 pm
The Braves are fading fast and may not make the playoffs unless the make a move to shore up the bullpen. We only have O/V/K as reliable reliefers. These three can usually go only one or two innings at most. Also. the hitting is so spotty that they must get someone who can replace either Heyward, Gonzalez and/or McClouth. I don`t know the answers. That is up to Wren.
Holy Devil
July 26th, 2011
2:41 pm
Gonzo has won 3 games and lost 25 with his bat. He seems to ALWAYS be the guy up with 2 on and 2 out.
Holy Devil
July 26th, 2011
2:43 pm
Heyward is still very young but doesn’t need to be in MLB right now. Send him to AAA to get his stuff together then bring him up next year.
But Gonzo & McOut just plain suck.
El Bravo
July 26th, 2011
2:43 pm
the truth, you make good points but the questions is how to address them. Not all of our prospects will become superstars but I’m sure the brass feels pretty good about at least two out of Teheran, Viscaino, Delgado, Minor and Medlen developing into quality starters and the rest filling up the pen. Lowe will be in the last year of his contract in 2012 and should be easier to trade, opening a spot for one of them. Hudson will be in the last year of his contract in 2012 and I doubt he will be resigned after, opening a spot for another. Gonzo and Nate are in the last year of their contracts and will not return. Ditto for Chipper after 2012. That is over $50 million coming off the books and a very young, talented, inexpensive pitching staff for years to come. Hopefully, new ownership will be willing to spend a bit more, making us contenders for top free agents. Instead of wasting one (or more) of these young arms for a 3-month Beltran rental we should be looking at possibly moving Lowe to free up money. The only way you move one of the kids is for a young bat with a ton of upside.
Seen (The Aints) This (get obliterated) B4 (by the only sub-.500 playoff team in the history of pro football)
July 26th, 2011
2:44 pm
Much respect for mentioning Al’s Pizza House, even though it doesn’t technically exist any more. Fletcher’s Restaurant is continuing the legacy of the best hot wings and absolute worst service in the Great County of DeKalb.
Stinger2
July 26th, 2011
2:44 pm
Some one suggested A. Jones as a possibility and I heard Franceour mentioned on another blog. Reruns don`t usually work out.
Holoman
July 26th, 2011
2:46 pm
The Falcons should be ok on offense with the addition of a deep threat in Julio Jones to go with Roddy,Ryan,Gonzalez,and Turner. Let’s face it, Abraham has lost several steps with age and can’t pressure QBs like he used to. And Witherspoon looks like another injury prone Norwood. You would think that with Blank’s money and desire to win that Falcons will go out and get the DL and DE they need in free agency.
Air Zaza
July 26th, 2011
2:47 pm
Heyward is very talented but he’s not seeing pitches well at all. I think he needs a couple weeks in the minors but we need him in the lineup for now at least till a trade.
Holoman
July 26th, 2011
2:50 pm
I looked at the blogroll topica and I saw Awful Announcing. Chip Caray & Joe Simpson immediately came to mind…
Columbus
July 26th, 2011
2:52 pm
Believe me if we can get rid of Lowe, he will be gone but then we have to rush a young guy up next year if we trade Minor. Minor is still a question mark if you ask me. I do not see him as being nearly as good as Hanson, or Jair and maybe not good as Beachy, nor the other top prospects in the future. I say we trade Minor for Rasmus or another hitter that will be around a few years. Cards want a RH pitcher and we want a RH hitter. I still say gotta look at him hard. We need a long term fix in the outfield and Upton is on the decline big time. Pence or Rasmus I like. Maybe 3 trades in the works?
Larry
July 26th, 2011
2:59 pm
Braves need to stand pat and go back to fundamental baseball.Has this team ever heard of bunting before?How many times did pirates do this.As for other article,anyone really thought that chipper says this team is fine,per lineup is a idiot.
Larry
July 26th, 2011
3:02 pm
Also my sources tell me that wren will make a move this weekend,and not before.
cdog
July 26th, 2011
3:04 pm
the braves are a stupid team.its the attitude of the current players that i have questions about.the players have losing mentalities despite their winning record.slup teams like pittsburgh, colorado,washington, and cincinati have no business being on the same field as the braves. they throw games because of players like beachy, mclouth, hinski, derek lowe, chipper, and conrad are losers.jason heyward was doing good until he started hanging around chipper jones who is lazy and gets away with murder by taking gasmes off and pretending to be hurt.wren has to put his foot down if the braves are to be in the world series this year
Don Green
July 26th, 2011
3:04 pm
How about making two trades:
Trade 1 with the Astros:
OF Pence, OF Bourn, SS Barmes, RP Melancon
for
OF Heyward, SS Gonzalez, SP Minor
Trade 2 with the Cardinals:
OF Rasmus
for
SP Lowe, OF McLouth, RP Proctor
Larry
July 26th, 2011
3:05 pm
the truth,
this blog is better than the blog you are talking about.DOB runs that one and he is so in love with posters there.Isaid something i apologised for yet he banned myself.love to see that idiot in person but whatever he is worthless
Larry
July 26th, 2011
3:07 pm
These are what the braves are thinking….
a rh bat off the bench,that can platoon also with heyward.
a middle reliever
that is it.
Larry
July 26th, 2011
3:08 pm
THE BRAVES ARE NOT INTERESTED IN BOURN OR KEMP.WHY DO YOU PEOPLE KEEP TALKING ABOUT BOURN FOR/?
Larry
July 26th, 2011
3:12 pm
HOLY DEVIL
NATE 2/4 LAST NITE,WHAT DID PRADO OR MCANN DO?
ezra
July 26th, 2011
3:15 pm
I would make a move an give away tickets. Of course if their is enough well-to-do fans in Ga to fill the seats, then we will not have 75% of the games blacked out. How many games do you think will get blacked out due to the jobless in Ga?
Hedley Lamarr
July 26th, 2011
3:21 pm
Braves are toast regardless of what moves they make
ryan
July 26th, 2011
3:23 pm
From reading on ESPN it does appear we are moving away from Beltran maybe Coby Rasmus could be a fit man not a lot buzz with Atlanta sports teams these days .
Jt
July 26th, 2011
3:26 pm
Hey Jeff the Falcons are better prepared to win their division heading into their “spring training” than the Braves were into theirs. They can win the NFC South without outside additions, other than retaining their own free agents. The Braves MUST do something- they are 6 games back and who they are is who they will be. Therfore, they must do something- whether it is middle relief or right handed bat. Only problem with Beltran is that the biggest hole in the lineup (Gonzalez) will not be solved. Ironically the signing of Beltran is more of a Chipper insurance than right handed bat. Chipper is fragile (Prado plays 3rd)- Beltran is needed for that and to allow Philly to get him-fatal error!
braveshoo
July 26th, 2011
3:31 pm
I think the Braves should make a move only if it helps them out not only this year but in following years as well. So Beltran is not an option to me. Next year McClouth will be gone, and Chipper may be as well. At a minimum Chipper will be in the last year of his contract, and so will Lowe and Hudson. You need an outfielder not only for this year, but for next year and beyond. So you add Pence or Upton, and pair that outfielder with Schaffer and Heyward. My preference would be Pence, because I think he is better and you can sign him longterm. Prado moves to 3rd after Chipper retires and is a supersub who plays everyday in the infield or the OF until Chipper retires. You probably have to give up Minor and Delgado to get Pence, but I think it is worth it if you can sign him longterm. You still have JJ, Hanson, Tehran, Beachy and Viscaino/Medlin for your future rotation. I would use Viscaino in the bullpen this year instead of signing another relief pitcher, and I would trade or release Proctor. Maybe you throw him in the deal to Houston. You will still need a SS next year unless you resign Gonzo . I think another minor deal that would help would be to get back Infante. He bats RH, can play SS instead of Gonzo, and can play 2nd, 3rd, of OF if needed. I dont think he would cost much because he is having a down year for Florida, but he likes Atlanta and Prado, and he will hit better for us.
Tami
July 26th, 2011
3:32 pm
I think both teams need to make some moves. The Braves need a hitter and another relief pitcher, although they may get one of their wishes in the next couple of weeks if/when Moylan comes back from the DL. I’m with Wren: I wouldn’t want to trade one of the up & coming pitchers to a division rival. That leaves Pence or Upton as a possible add vs. Beltran.
The Falcons have a few needs on both offense & defense. Whether they can fill those needs in a rapid, short deadline and fierce FA market is yet another question.
ryan
July 26th, 2011
3:34 pm
I think if Braves loose this game tonight or if they loose the next game i believe Frank Wren will pull the trigger on a trade we are in a funk right now maybe its all the trade talk who knows .
jmor
July 26th, 2011
3:35 pm
If the Braves hadn’t done the terrible Mark Texciera deal, they would have a good hitting great shortstop(Elvis Andrus) another power arm in the Bullpen(Feliz) and a starting pitcher better than Lowe(Matt Harrison). That team would be very good compared to the one the Braves had. That trade killed the organization, and it’s not time to do it again with Beltran.
Jim Dixon
July 26th, 2011
3:43 pm
Jeff, if the Falcons felt a need to upgrade the DL with a pass-rusher/runstopper, GM Diitroff would have made a serious effort to land Julius Peppers last year!!!!!. Hmmmmm
Najeh Davenpoop
July 26th, 2011
3:47 pm
The Braves are taking a bigger risk. They are the second best team in the NL and are maybe one impact bat away from winning a World Series. The Falcons may be several pieces away, especially if the right side of their offensive line leaves in free agency.
saints suck
July 26th, 2011
3:51 pm
For those of you who are saying trade Heyward, you are stupid. I’m frustrated as well but i know that he is only 21. He will come around. But why trade him for Pence when we would only get a year and half out of Pence. Mean while the Astros will have one of the best up and coming outfielders in the games. It amazes me how stupid people are when it comes to baseball.
Linebrink for Cy
July 26th, 2011
3:53 pm
Ya know I was just thinking, Colby Rasmus may not have as good a numbers as Beltran but over the past 3 seasons he has had over 300 more at-bats than Beltran and his numbers are consistent. He does strikeout a bit but he’ll take plenty of walks (he’s got more than Prado/Schafer combined)
And another positive, you don’t give a top prospect to a division rival.
I’m not sure his contract situation but MLBTR says “He’s under team control through 2014″ which is better than half a year of Beltran. So if given the option of trading top prospects to the Mets or Cardinals … I’d have to pick the Cardinals
Jim Dixon
July 26th, 2011
3:57 pm
C’mon Jeff, what did GM Dimitroff do last year when JULIUS PEPPERS was available? He started hunting for a punter.
Don’t forget that luck was on our side to get a 13-3 regular season record.
The Packers were glad to not see Julius in red and black.
jd
Facons fan and unofficial analyst!
Seen (The Aints) This (get obliterated) B4 (by the only sub-.500 playoff team in the history of pro football)
July 26th, 2011
4:00 pm
Is Dimitroff gunning for Charles Johnson after all?
http://life.atlantafalcons.com/topic/3923706-cj-offered-a-contract/
KenDog
July 26th, 2011
4:02 pm
I’m surprised that the poll percentages aren’t even higher in favor of the Braves needing help! I have great respect for what they have been able to accomplish as a team this year, but there is no way that they have any chance in the post season without a big bat – and one that can hit left-handed pitching! The pitchers are starting to get tired, and the team e.r.a is climbing – some of the hitters are coming around – and Freeman is going to be a monster – but this lineup needs help. I good middle reliever would help, but a big bat is a must!
Seen (The Aints) This (get obliterated) B4 (by the only sub-.500 playoff team in the history of pro football)
July 26th, 2011
4:12 pm
More signs point to Falcons’ interest in Charles Johnson:
http://life.atlantafalcons.com/topic/3923687-yes/
TruthSeeker
July 26th, 2011
4:13 pm
Just heard the Falcons signed Noel Devine. Could be a diamond in the rough. Between he and Jacquizz Rodgers, the Falcons are going to have some serious speed at running back.
A Conservative Voice
July 26th, 2011
4:17 pm
You…….
TIM
July 26th, 2011
4:21 pm
The falcons should bring back Jeff George. The braves should bring back Mike Hampton. While we’re at it, the hawks should bring back jon koncak.
l jones
July 26th, 2011
4:25 pm
I hope the Braves don’t give up a real good prospect for a .230 hitter like Upton. We’ve got those already. What has Beltran done against left-handed pitching this year? I heard it’s not so great, but I haven’t seen any numbers. It would be nice to find a shortstop who can hit a little bit, but I wouldn’t give up one of my best bargaining chips for any rent-a-player. I’d rather give up 2 or 3 of them for a good hitter who can contribute here long term.
JD
July 26th, 2011
4:25 pm
Only the Braves need a big move. And the move is —- sell the team to Mr. BLANK!
deep south brave
July 26th, 2011
4:28 pm
Jeff,
One other name that I have read online connected to us, but haven’t seen on the blog: B.J. Upton. You think we could figure out a trade with the Rays for him. His speed alone, might be worth it.
chipl1960
July 26th, 2011
4:28 pm
Minor is left handed not right handed for your info Columbus. And Ryan when you do not win you LOSE not LOOSE. Please people have at least a little knowledge of what you are talking about before posting. And USE SPELLCHECK if you dont know how to spell. Jeez, what were you doing all day from 8-3:30 for 12 years in school. As an educator it is so easy to understand why our country is in such a mess. Five percent of the people make all the rules and decisions for the other 95 percent. Pathetic.
Buddy Whitley
July 26th, 2011
4:31 pm
The Braves are fading fast.When a pitching staff is overworked as the relievers are,you have a corner outfielder Heyward who is contributing nothing offensively (last count had 27 rbi’s) for the season,another injury to Chipper who is productive when healthy ( can not count on him the rest of the season),Uggla who has made minimal changes to his hitting philosphy, McLouth who should be nothing more than a fill -in,Gonzalez who can offer nothing offensively.
When you play a 160 game schedule the second part of the season begins to wear on players stamina and the Braves need a shot in the arm if they want to be a wild card team. If they stand pat I predict they will not finish as a wild card team. Their apparent needs are some middle relief help,an outfielder who can provide some offense and rbi success,a hitting coach that can influence hitters, and a Manager who can adjust his batting order and move Heyward out of the # 2 hole.This position is for an individual who gets a lot of bats when rbi opportunities exist and is one of your better hitters.
JD
July 26th, 2011
4:33 pm
Actually the reason Braves are 2 : 1 leader of this question is : the Falcons have to sign about 25 players…there are too many moving pieces to be able to truly quantify what they need to do. Obviously they need defensive pressure on the QB and/or one more CB. But if you just resign the OrL and Snelling, Weems and a LB you are still in great shape if you add a couple of mid level DLs.
Meanwhile, our Bravos continue to amaze at the inability to make contact. This K ratio is astonishing. I don’t think any one hitter is capable of stemming the K tide. Too many below average (no pun intended) hitters. We need speed. We have not been able to manufacture runs for years. J- Hey to AA where he belongs and add a Bourn even Pierre to the OF. We need some life in this lineup before it really is too late.
Serbok
July 26th, 2011
4:36 pm
The Tampa Bay Buccaneers~ will DOMINATE this division~!
For MANY Years!
Josh Freeman? LMAO
Is gonna be the next Peyton!
joemoedee
July 26th, 2011
4:43 pm
Why have the Phillies been so good? Starting Pitching. Their offense and the Braves offense have been similar.
Just a random thought that popped into my head while driving this morning and listening to Cowherd’s show. Seattle is terrible. However, Seattle has an incredible SP.
*puts on his mock GM hat*
Trade two of your young stud pitchers (eg, Minor and Beachy) for Felix. Seattle wins as they get two guys that could start today. Atlanta wins as they get one of the best pitchers in baseball and not on a rental. Money bumps a little this year, but next year you drop a lot off of the books. (Lowe, Kawakami, etc)
You essentially turn yourself into a younger version of the Phillies, with a better bullpen. You go into a series with JJ, Hudson, Felix and Hanson, with D Lowe as a 5th starter/reliever? You have to like the odds.
Alas, it will probably never happen. But that’s what I think of when it comes to bold moves.
Don Green
July 26th, 2011
4:53 pm
If I am the Braves, I would not make a deal with one of my better prospects unless I could pick up a relatively young player that would potentially stay for awhile like Rasmus, Pence, Upton, or Bourn.
Absent of that, here are the moves I would make if I am the Braves:
1. I would sign Jorge Cantu to a minor league contract. He had a miserable year in San Diego and got released a couple of weeks ago but he is only 29 years old, and can play 1B and 3B. If you can turn him around in the minors he might add some right handed hitting bench depth if not this year, possibly next.
2. I would go to the Baltimore Orioles and make a deal for shortstop, J.J. Hardy and relief pitcher Mike Gonzalez for a couple of low level minor league prospects. Hardy has hit 14 HRs and is hitting .278 and would be a substantial upgrade over Alex Gonzalez. He is still only 28 yers old and will be a free agent at the end of the season. He does make $5 million right now but you might even be able to sign him for a multi-year deal that wouldn’t be too expensive until your younger minor league shortstops are ready by using the money you save on Alex Gonzalez. Mike Gonzalez is a lefty reliever and also a free agent at the end of the year. He did a good job for us a couple of years ago and you let him take some of the work load off of Johnny Venters to keep him fresh.
3. I would go after one of the cheaper righthanded OF bats that are going to be free agents after this season like Jonny Gomes, Reed Johnson, Ryan Ludwick, Josh Willingham, or Michael Cuddyer. Just whichever one would cost me the very least in terms of a mid-level prospect. Platoon him with Heyward in RF agaisnt left handed pitchers. Or play him in LF on the days that you don’t have Prado subbing for Chipper at 3B.
4. I would go after one of the other relievers who are going to be free agents at the end of this season that would also cost me the least in terms of a low to mid-level prospect such as Chad Qualls, Rafael Bentancourt, Matt Belisle, Clay Condray, Jon Rauch, John Grabow, Michael Wurtz, Jason Fraser, Kerry Wood, or Jamey Wright. Let them walk at seasons end.
I would argue tht if you make these moves you have vastly improved this team and it won’t require you to give up what it takes to get the really big name guys available.
joemoedee
July 26th, 2011
5:00 pm
Baltimore just signed Hardy to a 3 year deal, he isn’t going anywhere.
I like the Cantu move for depth.
I like an additional MR.
I don’t see Jonny Gomes, Reed Johnson, Ryan Ludwick, Josh Willingham, or Michael Cuddyer as the difference maker between a Wild Card team, and a championship team, though.
ronnie
July 26th, 2011
5:08 pm
trade Jason Heyward he is hurt all the time and can’t hit for avg. at all
WILLIE G LOVES FOOTBALL
July 26th, 2011
5:16 pm
they both need to get something . braves a starting pitcher and and a bat , the falcons, a lb, cb, and de or they will not make the playoffs you heard this from the gambler.
boots
July 26th, 2011
5:17 pm
I trust Arthur Blank to do the right thing much more than I do Liberty Media, whoever they are.
Don Green
July 26th, 2011
5:22 pm
joemoedee @ 5:00 pm:
Thanks, I did not realize that Hardy had signed an extension with Baltimore. I still like the idea of trying to pick up a shortstop to replace Alex Gonzalez. He is just awful. In fact if there was one stud free agent I would be willing to rent, it would be Jose Reyes, if the Mets would deal him.
Maybe you could do the same scenario with Houston and not give up much to rent free agent shortstop Clint Barmes and a reliever like Wilton Lopez or Mark Melancon.
Only thing that I was thinking was that all of those hitters hit lefthanders well. In fact Johnson at .356 and Cuddyer at .344 and Gomes at .300 all have pounded left handed pitchers. They could be an effective alternative to Nate McLouth or Jason Heyward against left handed pitching.
BigHittas
July 26th, 2011
5:24 pm
What would we have to give up to get Pence AND Bourn?
How bout Minor, McClouth, and Hinske/ or player to be named later?
Don Green
July 26th, 2011
5:34 pm
BigHittas:
I am guessing that to get both Pence and Bourn you’d probably have to give up Heyward and Minor. Can’t see the Astros wanting McLouth or Hinske.
chuck
July 26th, 2011
5:41 pm
How can a reliever be over worked when they pitch one inning every two days?
FalconsBraves1231
July 26th, 2011
5:55 pm
People really don’t wanna trade MIKE MINOR for BELTRON?? Seriously why are yall acting as if Minor is Roy Halladay?? I would make this deal in 0 seconds. Some say we have one of the top farm systems in baseball, it shouldn’t be too hard to call up another arm. Its not like where trading one of our current rotational pitchers, its a minor league player!
braves are pretenders!!
July 26th, 2011
5:57 pm
The only trade the braves could make to make them a contender would be to trade this so called manager they have. This guy is the worst game day manager of any of the teams competing for the wildcard. He got totally out managed last night by the Pirates manager. This guy never does anything to advance runners, and he continues to have the worst contact hitter in the N.L.(Heyward) batting second. So i guess the Falcons have the best chance, but they showed what they are made of last year with the home field in the playoffs. It’s a sad time to be a sports fan in the state of Georgia. UGA and the Braves have the worst managers or coaches in their respective leagues, and the Falcons are a paper weight when it comes to bigtime playoffs. And i didn’t even mention Ga.Tech, OMG!!
Bobby
July 26th, 2011
6:03 pm
It is too late to expect that adding one big bat is going to bring the Braves around. We have three or four big bats on the team already who are not hitting their weight, McCANN excepted, but without them we would be two or three places lower in the division. Add to that the injuries are piling up. I say forget this panic move and see who is available after the season. Then make plans and trades that will benefit the team for the next two or three seasons. There will be no world series play, league title, or division title this year and it’s time we face facts and act accordingly. Hype and hope have carried us as far as they can.
SAL
July 26th, 2011
6:05 pm
Beltran hits .227 right handed. Duh, can you say McClouth and Ankeil. Please don’t get Beltran for 2 months.
Ronald Millsaps
July 26th, 2011
6:06 pm
The Falcons very well might need a move since they DID make a move. Trading five draft picks translates into a considerable sum. Their defense was not good at all against Green Bay, so what did they do? Draft offensively!
Delbert D.
July 26th, 2011
6:13 pm
No one in the photo is paying the least bit of attention to Frank Wren.
Bonzo
July 26th, 2011
6:14 pm
I think the Braves should hold onto the two catchers, Prado, and the only three real pitchers we have in the bull pen, and put everybody else on the trading block. The other players now on the roster have simply not done their job.
Bonzo
July 26th, 2011
6:18 pm
Delbert D….you are right. Nobody in the picture even knows Wren is talking. I don’t think they care that he’s there or trying to talk to them.
richie
July 26th, 2011
6:30 pm
i say we give minor, delgado, and a outfield prospect to houston for Pence, then trade a package of two relief prospects to San Diego for Heath Bell. two needs filled. drop off nate mcclouth for little return and get a willingham or perhaps ryan spilborghs from Colorado to fortify the bench. That way we still keep our two best pitching prospects and fill our needs
Larry
July 26th, 2011
6:36 pm
Falcons need a DE, NB and a Defensive Coordinator to make the next level.
The Braves need a Manager with more than a double digit IQ, a SS, an OF and a whole new approach to offense…speed and contact, situational hitting.
Larry
July 26th, 2011
6:39 pm
SAL
July 26th, 2011
6:05 pm
Beltran hits .227 right handed. Duh, can you say McClouth and Ankeil. Please don’t get Beltran for 2 months.
Perhaps true, SAL, but how does his left handed average look compared to any of our current left handed outfielders?
Anything would be an improvement over Heyward!
The Nature Boy
July 26th, 2011
6:58 pm
@ Ronald Millsaps..Aaron Rogers played “the perfect game” that Saturday night in January….plz realize that..(I finally have) the Falcons needed an additional weapon on offense…and now that have it..albeit “unproven”…the Falcon need to retain O-Line bigs..if not Matty Ice Water will be toes up…with a cracked rib…JMHO
The Nature Boy
July 26th, 2011
7:03 pm
@ Larry..I’m too lazy to google past drafts…but haven’t the Falcons drafted a DE, like EVERY freaking year….just sayin…
Heyward still determined to make impact on Braves' season | Jeff Schultz
July 26th, 2011
7:03 pm
[...] there’s something different about Heyward this year, and it’s the reason the Braves are looking for offensive help in the trade market. Make no mistake: Notwithstanding Chipper Jones’ extended string of ailments, Dan Uggla’s [...]
Don Green
July 26th, 2011
7:05 pm
The Washington Nationals just acquired Jonny Gomes from the Cincinnati Reds for minor league OF Bill Rhinehart and minor league LHP Chris Manno.
Gomes crushes left handed hitting. Good pick up by the Nationals.
Don Green
July 26th, 2011
7:06 pm
I meant to say Gomes crushes left handed pitching above. Sorry.e
Holoman
July 28th, 2011
10:26 am
Delgado is the top Braves pitching prospect according to many.
IrishBlu
July 29th, 2011
4:56 am
@AJC Editor
Are you illiterate or just BLIND. NO WHERE in the article does it say ANYTHING about Mr. Larry Jones playing center field. You might wanna recheck your facts before you go bad mouthing someone’s writing.
Anyways a longtime Bravoes fan I’ve seen us get to where we need to be with PITCHING. Heath Bell would be a GREAT pickup. I know he is a closer, but even said in his own words that he would be a setup man in the right situation. Craig is LIGHTS OUT right now, but by bringing Bell in we could save Craig some wear and tear in his body. He doesn’t look lifeboat, but you gotta remember he’s still a rook, and the rest could do him some good. Plus, God forbid that this would happen, if Kimbrel happens to either get hurt or pull a Mark Wholers (DFA inability to pitch) we’ve got a (non Danny Kolb) all-star close to step right in.
Anyway, that’s my 2 cents plus a nickel.
GO BRAVES!!!