Minus NHL, did Atlanta just drop to Triple A of sports towns?
There's a banner we did not see very often in Philips Arena for Thrashers' games: playoffs.
Good morning. Did Atlanta just drop out of the majors?
This probably would carry a little more weight if Los Angeles still had an NFL team (which remains the funniest thing in sports, only because it drives Roger Goodell nuts). But when Atlanta was officially mugged by Atlanta Spirit, LLC and the NHL on Tuesday and the Thrashers were sold and moved to Winnipeg, the city dropped out of an elite group. There are only 12 remaining metropolitan areas that still have teams in all four pro sports leagues (MLB, NFL, NBA, NHL). Those 12: New York, Chicago, Philadelphia, Dallas, San Francisco (San Jose), Boston, Washington, Detroit, Phoenix (until the Coyotes move), Minneapolis, Denver and Miami.
Atlanta is now the second-biggest market (behind only Los Angeles) that doesn’t have teams in all four leagues. The second tier group of seven cities with teams in three leagues: L.A. (no NFL), Atlanta (no NHL), Houston (no NHL), Tampa (no NBA), Cleveland (no NHL), St. Louis (no NBA) and Pittsburgh (no NBA).
What I’ve done below is list every U.S. city with at least one pro sports team. This was kind of a tedious exercise, so if I missed a team let me know and I’ll recommend you for an editor’s opening.
I’ve ranked the cities by what Nielsen refers to as “designated market area,” which factors in some secret combination of population, media outlets and I think number of Wendy’s. Atlanta is the No. 8 media market in the country. The only others in the top 15 without teams in the four sports are No. 2 L.A., No. 10 Houston, No. 13 Seattle (which has only two teams after the Sonics were highjacked) and No. 14 Tampa-St. Petersburg.
Here’s the list. And here’s my question for you: Did Atlanta just become less of a major sports city without the Thrashers?
Let me know what you think.
(Market rank, metropolitan area (sports): MLB, NFL, NBA, NHL.)
1. New York-New Jersey (4): Yankees, Mets, Giants, Jets, Knicks, Nets, Rangers, Islanders, Devils.
2. Los Angeles (3): Dodgers, Angels, Lakers, Clippers, Kings, Ducks.
3. Chicago (4): Cubs, White Sox, Bears, Bulls, Blackhawks.
4. Philadelphia (4): Phillies, Eagles, Sixers, Flyers.
5. Dallas/Ft. Worth (4): Rangers, Cowboys, Mavericks, Stars.
6. SanFran/SJ/Oak (4): Giants, A’s, 49ers, Raiders, Warriors, Sharks.
7. Boston (4): Red Sox, Patriots, Celtics, Bruins.
8. Atlanta (3): Braves, Falcons, Hawks.
9. Washington (4): Nationals, Redskins, Wizards, Capitals.
10. Houston (3): Astros, Texans, Rockets.
11. Detroit (4): Tigers, Lions, Pistons, Red Wings.
12. Phoenix (4): Diamondbacks, Cardinals, Suns, Coyotes.
13. Seattle (2): Mariners, Seahawks.
14. Tampa-St. Pete. (3): Rays, Buccaneers, Lightning.
15. Minneapolis-St. Paul (4): Twins, Vikings, Timberwolves, Wild.
16. Denver (4): Rockies, Broncos, Nuggets, Avalanche.
17. Miami (4): Dolphins, Marlins, Heat, Panthers.
18. Cleveland (3): Indians, Browns, Cavaliers.
19. Orlando (1): Magic.
20. Sacramento (1): Kings.
21. St. Louis (3): Cardinals, Rams, Blues.
22. Portland (1): Trailblazers.
23. Pittsburgh (3): Pirates, Steelers, Penguins.
24. Charlotte (2): Panthers, Bobcats.
25. Indianapolis (2): Pacers, Colts.
26. Raleigh-Durham (1): Hurricanes.
27. Baltimore (2):Orioles, Ravens.
28. San Diego (2): Padres, Chargers.
29. Nashville (2): Predators, Titans.
31. Salt Lake City (1): Jazz.
32. Kansas City (2): Chiefs, Royals.
33. Cincinnati (2): Bengals, Reds.
34. Columbus (1): Blue Jackets.
35. Milwaukee (2): Bucks, Brewers.
37. San Antonio (1): Spurs.
45. Oklahoma City (1): Thunder.
47. Jacksonville (1): Jaguars.
50. Memphis (1): Grizzlies.
51. New Orleans (2): Saints, Hornets.
52. Buffalo (2): Bills, Sabres.
70. Green Bay-Appleton (1): Packers.
(Canadian cities with teams not included: Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver, Ottawa, Calgary, Edmonton, Winnipeg.)
By Jeff Schultz
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279 comments Add your comment
honest question
June 1st, 2011
12:29 pm
Has anyone ever known a normal person named Stuart?
kreedham
June 1st, 2011
12:34 pm
Seems to me that someone (Arthur Blank, Coke, somebody) could have made a deal to buy the Thrashers without going all in. Say a purchase price of $120 million to be paid over 4 years. 1st installment gets you 26% of the team, 2nd installment 25% and majority ownership with the option of minority owners (Glavine, etc) to buy in on 3rd and 4th installments or majority owner taking part of that!
Maybe we could make that deal with the NHL so save Glendale from ponying up every year and the NHL from owning a team….Let’s bring the Coyotes to Atlanta!…and the NHL would have to waive the relocation fee for the local owner doing them a favor and taking the team off their hands.
PureEvil
June 1st, 2011
12:36 pm
The top team in MLB attendance is Philly for 2011. Back in 2001 when the Phillies were bad they ranked 24th 2002 they ranked 24th 2003 they ranked 14th then they started to compete and attendance went up. When they start losing again you’ll see the attendance drop. Teams win people come. Teams lose people stay home. The Thrashers lost people stayed home.
Jeff Schultz
June 1st, 2011
12:36 pm
GTT — They used to do: The Cleveland Barons.
The ATL...
June 1st, 2011
12:38 pm
definitely dropped with the move of the Thrashers. I’m going to hate not living in an NHL town. I’m planning trips to Nashville already….
Horsehockey
June 1st, 2011
12:39 pm
Edawg makes a good point. Atlanta’s transportion problems cannot be underestimated in hurting attendance in all sports. For folks OTP, going to weeknight games is next to an impossiblity. The lack of a decent transportation system is what ultimately WILL relegate Atlanta to AAA status (if it hasn’t already done so). Adding a gazillion lanes to 85 and 5 or 6 miles to MARTA isn’t going to fix it either. Unfortunately, I doubt if the taxpayers or bass-ackwards politicians of this town have the vision to do anything about it.
Fortunately MLB, NFL, and NBA teams don’t survive on attendance alone as the NHL pretty much does.
Yurtle_the_turtle
June 1st, 2011
12:42 pm
Listen gang, if you did not like hockey, that is fine and you need not respond to this blog. From a business perspective, even if you didn’t like hockey you should be angry that a major sporting team left for a crappy town like Losipeg. There are folks who enjoyed the sport and would have gone to more games and generated income for downtown Atlanta (jerk of a mayor) had the ownership group actually put effort into the club. It was badly managed. ASG is a group of idiots who failed, plain and simple.
Gatorman
June 1st, 2011
12:44 pm
Atlanta is not defined by you or any other sports writers. I remember when the Braves drew well over 3 million fans and the national media called them the worst sports city in America. Atlanta is an icon city in the south and many parts of the country aren’t happy with that; too bad! The Hawks are an example of bad decision making by putting the stadium in south Atlanta, figuring only that part of the city would support the team. You put the stadium where the majority of the paying customers are, and many of those never wanted to go south Atlanta. A stadium should then and now be in the mid-town area, and it doomed the hockey team and may doom the basketball team for the same reason. I know this is not politically correct to say such a thing, but business is never politically correct.
reebok
June 1st, 2011
12:48 pm
i predict atlanta will have a re-lo’d hockey team here within 5 years. i’d like to see us get an MLS team…could really get behind that.
Jeff Schultz
June 1st, 2011
12:48 pm
PureEvil — that comment didn’t slip through the family values filter.
JR
June 1st, 2011
12:51 pm
Could it be our demographic in Atlanta? Atlanta Spirit sold us down the river. They only wanted the Hawks to begin with. Waddell and company poorly managed the team.. The best talent in the NHL passed through Atlanta on the way to gigs at top teams and Stanley cup glory. Heatley, Kovalchuk, Hossa, Tkachuk, need I say more!
PureEvil
June 1st, 2011
12:57 pm
i predict atlanta will have a re-lo’d hockey team here within 5 years
What could they be called?
The Atlanta 3rdtimers
The Atlanta Relocationers
The Atlanta Movers
The Atlanta Rebels
oh the possibilities!!
Sorry Jeff
wiseoldawg
June 1st, 2011
12:58 pm
Go Thrashers!! And take the Hawks with you!!
Bye, bye Thrashers
June 1st, 2011
12:59 pm
Jeff,
Checkout this YouTube viedo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pj1-Fd3oibc&feature=feedu
PMC
June 1st, 2011
1:01 pm
No one was going to swoop in and buy the team when the spirit would own the building and the hawks.
Certainly not Arthur Blank. Why would he want 2 bad stadium deals to contend with?
PapaSid
June 1st, 2011
1:02 pm
1. It’s a dollar issue – my available entertainment dollars. They are not unlimited. Braves (often), college football (often), Falcons (sometime) pretty much wipe me out. Hockey just doesn’t make the cut. 2. I wonder if you would try to check and see what percentage of the people upset about this are transplants from cities with a long hockey history? My suspicion is that this is a factor. Why don’t you try and prove me wrong?
PureEvil
June 1st, 2011
1:02 pm
And take the Hawks with you!!
Sorry you’ll have to wait untill 2028 for that!
BravesFan79
June 1st, 2011
1:07 pm
This column was awful.. what a dumb question.
BamaBob
June 1st, 2011
1:08 pm
The MLS argument is interesting. That league has evolved from a niche one to a player with its slow, yet steady growth. Teams in major areas are drawing extremely well and with the global appeal of the game could challenge the NHL in a decade or so as the “fourth major”. Especially if the NHL doesn’t contract as it needs to.
The WNBA is laughable. It exists only because David Stern says so. The TV ratings are so low sometimes they’re literally not measurable.
Cornbread
June 1st, 2011
1:17 pm
Jeff you could have saved some time with your list by just linking here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._and_Canadian_cities_by_professional_sports_teams
Notice the NHL left a major Top 10 North American market for #73. That says more about the NHL than it does Atlanta. Really, and I’ve been a fan and played hockey nearly all my life. The only American cities on that list not in the Top 50 – which includes MLS and CFL – are Buffalo at #54 and Green Bay at #146. The NHL relocating a team to Winnipeg would be like the NFL relocating Houston to Knoxville, TN (oh wait, how close is #40 Nashville?) or the MLB moving Toronto Blue Jays to Columbia, SC.
The NHL now has 5 teams outside the Top 50 markets in North America. Four of those cities are in Canada and the other at #54 is close enough. They are the only “Major League” to have teams outside the Top 50 with the exception of Green Bay which is the true outlier.
The NHL is not “Major League”. As Joe Friday has said, it’s a “Mickey Mouse League”. So, as much as this truly does suck for both Atlanta and hockey, Atlanta has not dropped to the AAA, the NHL has.
Zing
June 1st, 2011
1:30 pm
Screw the NHL. I’d much rather have an MLS team.
Let NONE in
June 1st, 2011
1:32 pm
the poor and unwashed OTP…
Roberta
June 1st, 2011
1:34 pm
ATL: It doesn’t really matter what Atlanta’s population is. It didn’t support the team and Winnipeg likely will
Brock
June 1st, 2011
1:34 pm
Evil- how bout the Atlanta Nomads or the Atlanta Gypsy’s.
Time
June 1st, 2011
1:36 pm
Yes Schultz, that’s what I got out of this column. That’s all you lot do (you and that other clown Bradley) is tear down sports in this city. Nothing is ever good enough. No player is ever good enough. No coach is ever good enough. All the time wanting to get someone traded or fired or preach about how Atlanta is now a AAA town or isn’t a good sports town.
Atlanta is a great sports city. And all you outdoors challenged people from up north should be thankful there are places like Atlanta. Where we don’t waste our money going to see bad pro sports. We just go out and play them. Your rosters are full of players from “crappy” sports towns.
The NHL is a second rate league. It’s not even 4th on the list of major sports as I’m pretty sure that both NASCAR and the PGA Tour (when Tiger plays) draw alot more viewers across the country.
So Schultz, why don’t you take the time to write a column about just how second rate the NHL instead of looking to downgrade this great city. As far as I’m concerned, it’s a thousand times worse of a black eye on the NHL than it is for Atlanta now that the Thrashers are gone.
Zing
June 1st, 2011
1:39 pm
Incidentally, I was sorry to see the Thrashers go, including how they went. But if someone tries to get another pro sports team to come here, I’d prefer an MLS team over the NHL. (Not that the NHL is coming back anytime soon–or ever).
jim
June 1st, 2011
1:42 pm
I am sorry the Thrashers are gone. Hockey is an exciting sport and Atlanta is a great city. The problem is not the fan base or generating interest. The fans I saw at games were engaged and knowledgeable and generally courteous (with the occasional dash of bloodlust). This whole issue is about poor ownership and high cost for the fan. Take a family of 4 to a Thrashers game: cost over $200 for the cheap seats, eating, parking, drinking, souviners. People don’t want to spend that kind of money to watch a team that loses. Second, ownership certainly marketed the team, but the best marketing in sports is winning. This team was a perennial loser and still drew over 13k per game in this last year. Did the Hawks ever do that when losing? They’re still here. The owners of this team couldn’t care less and took the team as a business loss for tax reasons. Fans who enjoy the sport and pay to watch it feel it as a loss. Those on this blog getting bent out of shape about being a 3 tier city, it is a nonsensical idea & the author is a dunce for suggesting it.
Cornbread
June 1st, 2011
1:43 pm
i predict atlanta will have a re-lo’d hockey team here within 5 years
And out of the ashes of the Flames and Thrashers arise the immortal firebirds, the…
Atlanta Phoenix!
OK,
Atlanta Firebirds!
Even more fitting if that relocated team should come from AZ. Alas, it’s all just a myth…
Jackets1
June 1st, 2011
1:49 pm
Losing the Thrashers doesnt make Atlanta a AAA sports town anymore than when the Arena football, women’s soccer, or WNBA teams closed up shop. In Canada, the NHL means something, but in most of the southeast and southwest, it is followed only by transplants (carpetbaggers). We could add a MLS team and it would probably be better supported. When Atlanta youth grow up playing hockey on the region’s frozen ponds, the NHL will survie here and i don’t see that happening anytime soon. I’m one of those people that gave it a shot and attended games the first five years and even have the misfortune of working downtown, but it just didnt hold my attention (winning or losing). Plus I still have no idea where the sport is located on tv. Truth be told, i’d rather attend a GaSt football game at the dome than Thrashers next door. Sorry Blue Land, you won’t be missed by many in Atlanta.
Rod Paradise
June 1st, 2011
1:53 pm
I have lived in GA all of my life and up until now, have never even heard of the Atlanta Flames. Granted it was when I was very young, but still. Thus, it goes to show you how much people in this area just do not care about hockey. I believe like sports that they grew up playing as a kid. Not many frozen ponds in this part of the world. Also there have been some people here with great insight into the NHL, and based on that information it sounds like the NHL is not doing well. Thus the franchise moving to Winnipeg sounds like a fairly reasonable transaction. Just my $.02
KE
June 1st, 2011
1:55 pm
Do the math! Atlanta Fan priorities are (or something close)
1.College Football (Georgia, Tech, Auburn, FSU, Clemson-all with major fan bases in Atlanta)
2. Falcons
3. Braves
4.College basketball’
5.Hawks
6. Then maybe the NHL!
Add in the economy and there just isn’t enough money, time and interest for fans to support everything. A sport that is not native to the population and with a limited amount of Northern transplants who happen to be Hockey fans–The sport does not have a chance.! I don’t place as much blame on ownership as the sports writers do. NHL would not draw well here if we were contenders for the Stanley Cup every year! Let’s move on!
BooBoo
June 1st, 2011
1:56 pm
Don’t cry for me Atlanterina.
Where’s Glen Ford when you need him?
Whatever happened to the Atlanta Knights? I bought sweatshirts with their logo on it at the K-Mart, after they won the Triple A championship, and then the aliens took them to Area 51.
Look what Calgary did with the Flames. Winnypig can do the same with the “Thrashers” (bet that name changes) Face it. Atlanta is a puppy mill for the NHL.
dawgfan123
June 1st, 2011
2:09 pm
NYC doesn’t have pro football!! They play in NJ!!
TruthSeeker
June 1st, 2011
2:11 pm
The Braves, Hawks, and Falcons have all gotten great support from Atlanta at various points in their history. Even people outside the city still talk about how electric Atlanta was when the Braves came out of nowhere during the summer of ‘91. The Braves were consistently in the top two in the league in attendance throughout the ’90s. It was only after several disappointing playoff performances that fans seemed to become jaded and attendance dropped off.
I think a similar thing happened with the Hawks. They were hugely popular for a stretch in the ’80s when they had ‘Nique, but it became obvious after a while that they were never going to win a championship. There hasn’t been real buzz around the Hawks in a very long time.
Someone (either Schultz or Bradley) posted that the Falcons had 38 straight sellouts before Vick went to prison. I must have forgotten about that because it blew my mind.
Obviously, Atlanta has shown it’s capable of getting behind all of these teams. But they need something to be excited about. The Braves in the ’90s were exciting. Michael Vick was exciting. But, honestly, if you look at the Atlanta sports landscape now, there’s not a whole lot to pull the casual fan in. The Braves are decent but about as thrilling as watching paint dry. The Hawks lack a superstar and are wildly inconsistent. The Falcons are on the verge of being elite, but the playoff game against the Packers showed they still have a ways to go.
FalconFan
June 1st, 2011
2:17 pm
The answer to your question is in rewording your question – Atlanta is a major sports town and does not like (or support for long) AAA (ie minor league) teams or sports. Atlanta Force, Flames, Attack, Knights, Chiefs, Glory, Beat, Dream, Thrashers – there is a graveyard of failed sports teams that played minor league sports or leagues and after an initial curiosity were sent on their way to a minor league town where they belong. The NHL is minor league – guys hitting a ball with metal sticks and guys driving cars around in circles ad nauseum draw better than this sport. That’s not sour apples, its the truth.
Remarkable
June 1st, 2011
2:17 pm
Jeff, thanks for reading the blogs. It does make reading them more interesting knowing you read them too and make comments.
Najeh Davenpoop
June 1st, 2011
2:19 pm
Were we in the Triple A of sports towns in 1996 when we had the Olympics and the defending World Series champions but no hockey team?
BarneyBones
June 1st, 2011
2:27 pm
For sale: Two authentic Thrasher sweaters, newly classified as collectibles, seldom worn due to fear of being viewed as a loser (or worse – yankee). Maybe those fools that live in some god forsaken frozen city like Winnipeg might want them……..to keep warm with over their 11.5 months of winter.
Hillbilly D
June 1st, 2011
2:27 pm
I don’t think so. If the Thrashers, or the Flames for that matter, had had competent ownership, they’d still be here.
Remarkable
June 1st, 2011
2:30 pm
Jeff, NEW Question: Should the name stay with the original city or with the team. Examples: Utah Jazz?, Cleveland Browns, etc…
404
June 1st, 2011
2:31 pm
Atlanta is a quality Sports town.
It’s the media coverage from the “Sports” section of the AJC thats the REAL disgrace.
povox
June 1st, 2011
2:32 pm
How ’bout we trade the Hawks to Tampa for the Lightning, St. Louis for the Blues or Pittsburgh for the Penguins?
doc
June 1st, 2011
2:36 pm
jeff, some might say atlanta became a minor league national and certainly southern sports town when it lost one of its two major nascar races. heh heh
Astonished
June 1st, 2011
2:44 pm
One of the most apparently detached owners in sports, Jeremy Jacobs of the Boston Bruins, was quoted today in the Boston Globe. He bought the team in 1975 and only recently has become more demonstrative of his passion for the team at the suggestion of team president and former Bruin Cam Neely.
“When you own a franchise in a city like Boston, these great, classic properties, it’s not another asset,’’ said Jacobs. “It’s a civic asset that you’re holding there. . . . You just don’t treat it the same way you would other property, so to speak. You should go in there with that recognition. I didn’t fully appreciate that until after I’d been there for several years. Then, it became more and more apparent that you were dealing with the emotions of a community and with the pride and the culture, more so than with anything else you would do.’’
It’s sad sad sad that the Atlanta Dispirit Group did not understand that the Thrashers, young as they are at a mere 11, became part of the emotions and fabric of the community. Having been a critic of Jacobs in the past, I hope what he’s saying is true. And that more owners would look at teams as not just another business to suck money from, but as a form of public trust.
James Adams
June 1st, 2011
2:59 pm
The NHL is no longer a national product. Solely regional. No loss here.
JoeEh
June 1st, 2011
3:00 pm
Remarkable : You could have our Manitoba moose minor league farm team. They are farming for Vancouver Canucks and if I remember correctly they are going for the cup tonight.
Let NONE in
June 1st, 2011
3:06 pm
HOCKEY IN Atlanta is officially done. No more of that or the Hawks.
Let NONE in
June 1st, 2011
3:12 pm
What happened to C-Viv? Some of bloggers were blamiing him for this. LOL>
Todd Go
June 1st, 2011
3:16 pm
Even WITH the Thrashers, Atlanta can’t be considered a first-class Sports town. Empty seats dominate most of our stadiums during regular seasons, and failure to produce in the playoffs is our legacy. Yes, College Football has tremendous regional appeal here (if that counts), but I would argue that on the local level (Dawgs and Jackets) it rarely lives up to the hype. Bottom line, the Thrashers are gone because of too much apathy on every level.
Mash
June 1st, 2011
3:16 pm
Without the Thashers, Atlanta may have actually moved up a notch.