Minus NHL, did Atlanta just drop to Triple A of sports towns?
There's a banner we did not see very often in Philips Arena for Thrashers' games: playoffs.
Good morning. Did Atlanta just drop out of the majors?
This probably would carry a little more weight if Los Angeles still had an NFL team (which remains the funniest thing in sports, only because it drives Roger Goodell nuts). But when Atlanta was officially mugged by Atlanta Spirit, LLC and the NHL on Tuesday and the Thrashers were sold and moved to Winnipeg, the city dropped out of an elite group. There are only 12 remaining metropolitan areas that still have teams in all four pro sports leagues (MLB, NFL, NBA, NHL). Those 12: New York, Chicago, Philadelphia, Dallas, San Francisco (San Jose), Boston, Washington, Detroit, Phoenix (until the Coyotes move), Minneapolis, Denver and Miami.
Atlanta is now the second-biggest market (behind only Los Angeles) that doesn’t have teams in all four leagues. The second tier group of seven cities with teams in three leagues: L.A. (no NFL), Atlanta (no NHL), Houston (no NHL), Tampa (no NBA), Cleveland (no NHL), St. Louis (no NBA) and Pittsburgh (no NBA).
What I’ve done below is list every U.S. city with at least one pro sports team. This was kind of a tedious exercise, so if I missed a team let me know and I’ll recommend you for an editor’s opening.
I’ve ranked the cities by what Nielsen refers to as “designated market area,” which factors in some secret combination of population, media outlets and I think number of Wendy’s. Atlanta is the No. 8 media market in the country. The only others in the top 15 without teams in the four sports are No. 2 L.A., No. 10 Houston, No. 13 Seattle (which has only two teams after the Sonics were highjacked) and No. 14 Tampa-St. Petersburg.
Here’s the list. And here’s my question for you: Did Atlanta just become less of a major sports city without the Thrashers?
Let me know what you think.
(Market rank, metropolitan area (sports): MLB, NFL, NBA, NHL.)
1. New York-New Jersey (4): Yankees, Mets, Giants, Jets, Knicks, Nets, Rangers, Islanders, Devils.
2. Los Angeles (3): Dodgers, Angels, Lakers, Clippers, Kings, Ducks.
3. Chicago (4): Cubs, White Sox, Bears, Bulls, Blackhawks.
4. Philadelphia (4): Phillies, Eagles, Sixers, Flyers.
5. Dallas/Ft. Worth (4): Rangers, Cowboys, Mavericks, Stars.
6. SanFran/SJ/Oak (4): Giants, A’s, 49ers, Raiders, Warriors, Sharks.
7. Boston (4): Red Sox, Patriots, Celtics, Bruins.
8. Atlanta (3): Braves, Falcons, Hawks.
9. Washington (4): Nationals, Redskins, Wizards, Capitals.
10. Houston (3): Astros, Texans, Rockets.
11. Detroit (4): Tigers, Lions, Pistons, Red Wings.
12. Phoenix (4): Diamondbacks, Cardinals, Suns, Coyotes.
13. Seattle (2): Mariners, Seahawks.
14. Tampa-St. Pete. (3): Rays, Buccaneers, Lightning.
15. Minneapolis-St. Paul (4): Twins, Vikings, Timberwolves, Wild.
16. Denver (4): Rockies, Broncos, Nuggets, Avalanche.
17. Miami (4): Dolphins, Marlins, Heat, Panthers.
18. Cleveland (3): Indians, Browns, Cavaliers.
19. Orlando (1): Magic.
20. Sacramento (1): Kings.
21. St. Louis (3): Cardinals, Rams, Blues.
22. Portland (1): Trailblazers.
23. Pittsburgh (3): Pirates, Steelers, Penguins.
24. Charlotte (2): Panthers, Bobcats.
25. Indianapolis (2): Pacers, Colts.
26. Raleigh-Durham (1): Hurricanes.
27. Baltimore (2):Orioles, Ravens.
28. San Diego (2): Padres, Chargers.
29. Nashville (2): Predators, Titans.
31. Salt Lake City (1): Jazz.
32. Kansas City (2): Chiefs, Royals.
33. Cincinnati (2): Bengals, Reds.
34. Columbus (1): Blue Jackets.
35. Milwaukee (2): Bucks, Brewers.
37. San Antonio (1): Spurs.
45. Oklahoma City (1): Thunder.
47. Jacksonville (1): Jaguars.
50. Memphis (1): Grizzlies.
51. New Orleans (2): Saints, Hornets.
52. Buffalo (2): Bills, Sabres.
70. Green Bay-Appleton (1): Packers.
(Canadian cities with teams not included: Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver, Ottawa, Calgary, Edmonton, Winnipeg.)
By Jeff Schultz
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279 comments Add your comment
Irish Thunder
June 1st, 2011
10:16 am
For the folks out there who hate hockey, let it go. There was a portion of Atlanta who loved hockey. There are people from Canada and areas up North that took to the team. One playoff in 11+ years will kill attendence even in the Bostons, Chicagos,etc. If the Thrashers were given an owner like Arthur Blank (remember when the GA Dome had empty upper decks in Football crazy South?) the Thrashers would be a playoff team drawing 18k a game. This city should have 4 teams, when a city like Denver supports four teams, Atlanta would as well. Denver has owners who put out a good product. Atlanta fans just want a good product. ASG, you let us down big time. Maybe a Arthur Blank type will appear and buy the Coyotes and move them to Atlanta? I can wish.
Shug
June 1st, 2011
10:17 am
NEWS FLASH!!! 99.9999% of Americans, including 99.98% of American hockey fans had no idea Atlanta ever had a hockey team. The Thrashers departure won’t move the needle on the public’s perception of Atlanta.
5150 UOAD
June 1st, 2011
10:17 am
The NHL got $60 million in relocation fee to move the Thrashers. The NHL needed the money other wise they would have fought HARD to keep the team in Atlanta like the NHL has done with other teams.
This is less about and more about the League.
I remember in “91″ how the whole City was alive with Braves Fever. People were Chopping to each other while driving in Traffic. People were half awake at work after the late games on the left coast. That Spirit lasted for about 5 years them we were so used to going to the Playoffs it became no big deal.
Puck Like A Porn Star
June 1st, 2011
10:18 am
Just read your comment, Schultz. Stopping at the perceived top four leagues seems arbitrary, especially since soccer is very popular in certain U.S. markets and globally, but it’s your blog. *shrug*
mark louis
June 1st, 2011
10:19 am
Considering the NHL is itself a AAA sports league, I don’t think it hurts the city too much. Seriously, what kind of commissioner allows a team to leave a top 10 market, an international city, for a city a fraction of its size? Bettman has got to be the worst commissioner in sports.
Van Dammit
June 1st, 2011
10:19 am
We were “less of a major sports city” even with the Thrashers. The fan base just isn’t there. I really can’t tell you why either. Maybe it’s the lack of championships. Maybe it’s the dominance of college sports in the south. Maybe it’s the overly fickle fans. Or all the above. But whatever it is, I’m not surprised that the ATL can’t keep a hockey team. The next time there’s an expansion, the powers that be in Atlanta should just say, “pass”.
IceColdATLien
June 1st, 2011
10:19 am
Tru dat, Hayseed
5150 UOAD
June 1st, 2011
10:22 am
Remember how the Knights did in Atlanta as a minor league team? People loved to go to those games because the Knights were winners. The Knights became the Tampa Bay Lighting where they are still winning. If we had the Knights and their ownership there would be plenty of people going to the games.
PureEvil
June 1st, 2011
10:23 am
Is MLS still not considered a major sport?
Absolutelty not!!!! Not even close……WNBA and poker rank higher.
Elvis the Peacock
June 1st, 2011
10:23 am
Shug, you speak truth to power.
Horsehockey
June 1st, 2011
10:23 am
While it’s never a good thing for a city’s image to lose a pro franchise – and even worse for it to happen twice – this says more about the NHL than it does about Atlanta.
Not enough SubWay franchises either
June 1st, 2011
10:24 am
So there you go…..
Sleeze
June 1st, 2011
10:25 am
Jeff, Since you’re kinda anal for hockey, any chance you’ll move to Winnipeg too? Right now, Atlanta’s in the low Class A league when it comes to sports columnists.
Matt Ryan
June 1st, 2011
10:26 am
Who cares its HOCKEY
Its not the owners fault. Braves have consistently put a top product on the field for almost 20 years and they get half capacity if that during the week.
If we cant sell out a Braves PLAYOFF games, no way we can sell out a REGULAR SEASON Hockey game. Good move for the Thrashers
Mid Town Joe
June 1st, 2011
10:27 am
Jeff, Pittsburgh having the Steelers counts for at least 2-3 teams.
The Listener
June 1st, 2011
10:28 am
If losing a hockey team is all it takes to drop you from the Big League to Triple A, then those classifications are distinctions without a difference.
PureEvil
June 1st, 2011
10:28 am
Send us a minor league hockey team and everyone should be happy.
Gwinnett Gladiators only 30 min north of Atlanta.
Doug
June 1st, 2011
10:30 am
Nordic/Slavic sport in a Southern US town. This is not hard to figure out, and the onus is on the NHL as with any business to demonstrate why people should purchase their product. IceCold is right: if the NHL can’t figure out how to get a cut of people’s entertainment dollars in a metro area of 5M then the problem is the product, not the city. The “Versus” network? Give me a break.
More broadly, Atlanta sports venues are located in-town when the majority of people with lots of discretionary cash are in the northern burbs. It is what it is, and just wait until gas punches thru the $4/gal resistance point for good.
Chris Goltermann
June 1st, 2011
10:31 am
Goodbye Thrashers
Sung to Supertramp’s “Goodbye Stranger”
It was around noon yesterday
The Thrashers said they’re gone
The ASG and Bettman do not care
So now they’re moving on
Like a fan without our Blueland
Like a commish without a brain
Atlanta’s without an NHL team
They’ve left for his own gain
Now don’t believe in what the owners say
As the undisputed truth
I believe things didn’t have to be this way
To keep us happy in Duluth
Like a ship without an anchor
Like a slave with a chain
Just the thought of the ASG’s words
Sends a shiver through my veins
And we will go on wearing
Our jerseys all brand new
We’ll remember what could have been
If only we weren’t owned by you
Goodbye Thrashers it’s been nice
Hope you find your paradise
Tried to see the Spirit’s view
Too bad they failed to come through
Goodbye Pavy, Goodbye Kane
Will we ever see you again
Feel much sorrow, feel much shame
Come next year, no more games
Now some they do and some they don’t
And some you just can’t tell
And some they will and some they won’t
With ASG, it’s sure has been hell
You can laugh at our behavior
That’ll never bother me
Unable to find our savior
At Philips,you won’t find me
And we will go on wearing
Our jerseys like brand new
We’ll remember what could have been
If only we weren’t owned by you
Goodbye Thrashers it’s been nice
Carl Brewer
June 1st, 2011
10:33 am
NHL= Penny wise and pound foolish. In the long run the NHL would better off with teams in all the major markets. The NHL or owners have never had a long term plan for the league. Allowing fighting to remain in the game is the best example. Unfortunately the most visible representative of hockey is run by nitwits. I am sure the entire world will be glued to their TV’s if we ever have an Ottowa/Winnipeg finals.
jon
June 1st, 2011
10:34 am
…. at trhe end of the day it’s sad about the thrashers.. Many jobs are now lost becuase of it… Shame on Bettman for not even trying to assist an keeping them in ATL. BTW… No one mentions how Don Waddell ran the franchise into the ground, iV’e never seen a GM so unsuccessful and keep his job… I stand corrected… Matt MIllen was in Detroit to long!
jcwhitingjr
June 1st, 2011
10:38 am
Yes, Atlanta is just a bad sports town. If a team isn’t winning then people aren’t showing up. Look at the attendance when the Braves were bad, the Falcons were bad an the Hawks were bad. Even when winning 15 division titles there were empty seats at playoff games for the Braves!
Let NONE in
June 1st, 2011
10:38 am
GOOOOOOOOOO….GEORGIA…..BULLDOGS………screw the NHL. Getting back to my roots…college football.
Former Hawk Fan
June 1st, 2011
10:40 am
LA lacking an NFL franchise is an anomoly. Nonetheless, I consider New York, LA, San Fransico/Oakland, Chicago, Philidelphia and Boston to be mega-markets. Not only are these markets large, they are also historically valuable to the four major professional leagues.
The next tier, which can be classified as large markets, includes Dallas, Atlanta, Houston, and Washington DC. There’s not nearly as much historical value in these cities, but all of them have established teams with “permanance” (franchises that span 40 or more seasons) in at least two of the leagues. Among these markets, Dallas is the only one that has not lost a franchise (not counting the Texans move to KC). Washington lost MLB in 1971 when the Senators moved; Atlanta lost the NHL in 1980 when the Flames moved; and Houston lost the NFL in the late ’90’s when the Oilers moved. Nontheless, all of the lost teams were eventally replaced. Atlanta is the first of these cities to lose its “replacement” team, so the loss of the Thrashers does suggest that something is amiss in the Atlanta market. Like Houston, we appear destined to be at the top of the heap of 3-team cities. Not exactly minor league, but disappointing because even an average NHL franchise could have taken hold and established “permanance” here.
The loss of the Thrashers to Winnipeg is causing me to mourn the loss of the Flames back in 1980 all over again. How I wish Ted Turner has saved them. Had they stayed, they would have soon be celebrating 40 years in Atlanta (2012-13 season), and an NHL tradition in Atlanta would have been long-established by now.
Atlanta is now a permanent 3-sport town — not bad, but certainly not up to our potential.
athdog
June 1st, 2011
10:40 am
The NHL is broadcasting games on Versus, for crying out loud. It’s the triple A of sports!
Mr. Phil
June 1st, 2011
10:41 am
I have been saying this for 12 years and nobody has heard me yet. But here goes again. There are more of us who do not like hockey and never wanted the Thrashers here to begin with than the rest of you. It is a fact. We still don’t care.
PureEvil
June 1st, 2011
10:41 am
Jeff, Whats going to happen to Chris V Thrashers beat writer?
J-Man
June 1st, 2011
10:41 am
I like hockey I liked the thrashers, but this was an up-hill battle.
Here are the reasons the Thrashers couldnt survive here.
1. Hockey is a cold weathered sport and we as southerners have never played it so we don’t have any emotional connection like we do the “Big 3″ sports.
2. The Atlanta Spirit ownership
3. Not being able to keep Kovalchuck
4. The Dany Heatley accedent
5. NOT WINNING…….how can you not make the playoffs in the NHL, geez
6.Getting sweept in their only playoff appearance
7. Lack of advertisement……..I never knew when a Thrashers game was on unless i checked espn
8.Lack of a connection with the players. The players we had never seemed to make any public appearances or if they did we didnt know about them. We have to have that emotional connection with these guys inorder for people to attend games.
9. The “Curse” of Atlanta sports………I do think mentality played a factor in the move
10. The media…….You guys never had the Thrashers as top priority, hence lack of awareness by the average fan.
John
June 1st, 2011
10:42 am
Losing a large media market may hurt the NHL (doubtful). While I hate to see the Thrashers go, the issue is are the teams really competative. ASG has failed to put together a team that is capable of doing just that. At least ATL three remaining teams have put themselves in position to have a chance in their respective sports.
Mr. Phil
June 1st, 2011
10:42 am
@jcwhitingjr I submit that we would not have supported the Thrashers wins or no wins. Look at the year the made the playoffs and then the attendance the following season. No change. Hockey is unwanted in this town now and was 30 years ago and will be 30 years from now.
Horsehockey
June 1st, 2011
10:42 am
Come to think of it, the WNBA and MLS actually have games broadcast on ESPN and ABC as opposed to Vs. Calling hockey “Big 4″ is out of date. It goes back to the days before big network TV contracts.
Anyway, I’m sorry to see the Thrashers leave. Not a huge fan, but it was nice knowing they were here. Not going to lose a lot of sleep over it though. Wouldn’t be surprised to see the entire league fold eventually they way things are going.
BufordKing
June 1st, 2011
10:42 am
To answer your question – “NO” – Atlanta is not relegated to minor sports league by losing a crappy franchise.
I have attended to about 20 hockey games up to about 2 years ago- and have seen the Trashers win only THREE games. I really rooted for this team – but commitment was not there to give the fans a great product – so I quit going to games and lost interest.
Meanwhile – I still go to Braves and Falcons games. Even took in a few Hawks games this year.
I also need to mention that I go to several UGA football home games. Even go to a couple of GT games if I can – depending on UGA’s schedule. GT – Clemson – GT VT are good games to go to.
So there are plenty of competing teams going after my sports dollar – without the TRASHERS.
This town will not miss Hockey.
Now onto something different – I wish GT was back in the SEC.
Here is why (and for selfish reasons):
– great school with great college football history
– ATL is in the heart of SEC country
– makes UGA/GT game even more important
– Imagine having the opportunity to see GT/Aub, GT/FL, GT/Bama, GT/TENN, GT/LSU in Atlanta every few years as teams rotate in? Much better that GT/NCSt, GT/Miami, GT/NC, GT/BC.
I think GT could compete – and would add to the great college football environement this city enjoys.
The state of Georgia has some great schools that we should be proud of – and I wish GT the best except for when they play UGA – then I can’t stand the Bugs!
retired
June 1st, 2011
10:43 am
Move us back to the top of the heap Atlanta has the National Ultimate frisbee Championship team!
Matt Ryan
June 1st, 2011
10:46 am
Top sports in the World
1. Futbol (Soccer)
2. Football
3. Baseball
4. Basketball
5. Cricket
6. Ping Pong
…
1231223: Hockey
Steve-o
June 1st, 2011
10:47 am
It DOES matter that Atlanta lost the Thrashers. Having 4 teams is a prestige thing for most cities, but of course in Atlanta there are a lot of people who say good riddance just because they don’t follow hockey. Most of the cities that have all 4 major fanchises are elite cities… then again, I guess it’s fitting that we don’t have 4 teams since ATL is a second-tier city that likes to think of itself as “world class” (as the mayor just referred to ATL in a news interview). Atlanta has has more in common with St. Louis and Tampa-St. Pete than Chicago or Boston.
Matt Ryan
June 1st, 2011
10:49 am
Top sports in the World (correction)
1. Futbol (Soccer)
2. Football
3. Baseball
4. Basketball
..
1231221. Cricket
1231222. Pong
1231223. Hockey
and the winner is ...
June 1st, 2011
10:50 am
If a place on the map cannot allow children to “go outside and play on the frozen pond,” it does not need a hockey team.
Steven
June 1st, 2011
10:51 am
For all of you that think Atlanta is still a great sports town – even the Braves couldn’t sell out PLAYOFF games. Atlanta, unfortunately, is now a bastion of metrosexual fair-weather fans. RIP Thrashers.
Horsehockey
June 1st, 2011
10:51 am
Vs two big pro sports contracts: The NHL and Pro Bull Riding. Says all you need to know about hockey’s stature as a major sport.
mervdaman
June 1st, 2011
10:59 am
So people in Atlanta are not into hockey. It’s not the NHL’s fault that they don’t know a good thing when they don’t see it. Typical American attitude! If you’re not the biggest and best in everything than it’s second rate. ATL thinks that a move to Winnipeg doesn’t make sense. Yah right ATL, hockey in Winnipeg doesn’t make sense. Hockey in Phoenix and Miami doesn’t make sense. And all the comments from people that say they don’t care or watch hockey just proves that Atlanta shouldn’t have a hockey team.
ChippersLoveChild
June 1st, 2011
11:00 am
To the people that say this city is perceived as the “Braves, Falcons, and college football” outside of the market, you are wrong…. the only thing Atlanta is known for is the Braves. Believe it or not outside of the south most people do not care about college football, so they don’t associate Atlanta with college football because it isn’t on their radar. The Falcons are improving, so with time they too might be part of what Atlanta is known for, but they haven’t done it long enough. Atlanta is only known for the Braves as far as sports go… and yes, this city is AAA for sports, but not because of the Thrashers leaving, but because I can buy a ticket to a playoff game for face value the day of the event and because opposing fans outnumber home fans at certain games.
Too tough
June 1st, 2011
11:02 am
This is the SOUTH…hockey just aint what we like to go and see….FOOTBALL #1 Baseball #2….(if the Braves dont do something ASAP to address such a feeble hitting team…Im done with them till next yr. too!)
Matt Ryan
June 1st, 2011
11:03 am
College Football is big in the South and the MIDWEST
BigMomma
June 1st, 2011
11:05 am
Hockey fans will say yes, non-hockey fans will say no. I wasn’t a hockey fan until 4 years ago when I went to my first game. Ever since then I was an avid fan. Hockey…GOOD hockey….well-marketed hockey will work in Atlanta given all of the Northern transplants and the youth hockey movement underway in the ‘burbs. It just wasn’t given a chance.
As to the “hockey is broadcast on Versus” argument…who just bought Versus and negotiated that hefty, long-term hockey tv contract? Yup, NBC. I think that TV marketing may change a little bit for them to have paid so much for the rights. It would’ve been nice to have the 8th largest market. Interesting how the sale happened AFTER the contract was signed…
ChippersLoveChild
June 1st, 2011
11:05 am
Matt Ryan,
“Football” is not the number two sport in the world. Sorry.
Billsen
June 1st, 2011
11:06 am
So… next year when the NFL and the NBA will likely not be happening, then you’ll miss having the Thrashers.
I LOVED that team. Hockey is simply the most exciting sport there is – especially at the NHL level. Those who never bothered to check it out, but seem to have the time to post comment denigrating it, I hope that you’re happy. Go back to that snooze-fest call golf. Go back to that yawner called NASCAR.
When you’re ready to man up – check out an NHL game.
Matt Ryan
June 1st, 2011
11:06 am
ChippersLoveChild ,
Is it Cricket?
Tommy
June 1st, 2011
11:08 am
Looking back, it’s clear the Thrashers were cursed from the start. The arena was about 30 minutes from the bulk of the fan base, the owners didn’t care, the GM made the guys running the Pittsburgh Pirates look good, and the team’s first signature player killed a teammate in a car wreck. let’s be honest–despite some bright moments this team was really, really epically bad. You have to TRY to miss the NHL playoffs 10 out of 11 years.
With all of that going on, it’s a wonder they lasted 11 seasons. Sure, those who can’t think of anything but college football for more than 5 seconds may not care, but the NHL can work in a southern town–look at Tampa. They succeed because they put a good team on the rink.
I believe Atlanta will get a major-league hockey team again. Not necessarily an NHL team–I honestly believe that league is doomed–but at some point, 10-15 years from now, someone will try again. If they import an established team from another city, have a committed owner, a good GM, and for crying out loud build an arena in the northern suburbs, they’ll be fine.
juice sourcer
June 1st, 2011
11:09 am
Atlanta behind Detroit…that’s about as low as you can go! Loserville USA and yes…triple A. How is that posible for an Olympic City?
Matt Ryan
June 1st, 2011
11:11 am
i know cricket has a BIG following in India, Paskistan, etc