Poll time: What would you think of Smith-for-Bynum deal?
Andrew Bynum has some baggage but he would give Hawks a legitimate center. (AP photo)
The other day I wrote that it might be time for the Hawks to part ways with Josh Smith– not just because he’s the most likely trade candidate in their core, but because it’s becoming clear that he’s getting tired of being blamed for everything when something goes wrong.
The Smith-bashers in town favored the column. The Smith fans hated it, some taking it as another media assault on Smith. Fact is, as I wrote, I agree with Smith that he takes more blame for the team’s shortcoming than he deserves.
Loading ...But that column sparked immediate trade rumors, including this one: Smith and Kirk Hinrich to Los Angeles Lakers for Andrew Bynum and Ron Artest. Barring other moves, that would leave the Hawks with a starting five of Bynum (center), Ron Artest (small forward), Al Horford (power forward), Joe Johnson (shooting guard) and Jeff Teague (point guard).
That trade is nowhere close to reality right now — it was concocted by media members for the sake of discussion, and because it seems plausible. The Lakers could be looking to move Bynum after his postseason meltdown, and they also may pursue a deal for Orlando’s Dwight Howard, which would make Bynum expendable. (One outlet, Hoopsworld, also is speculating whether the Clippers will pursue Smith.)
Bynum obviously has had his issues. But he would give the Hawks their first legitimate center in years and allow Horford to move to his more natural position of power forward. If the way Teague played against Chicago in the playoffs was not an aberration, suddenly the Hawks could be set at point guard and center, and when is the last time we could say that?
So I’m not saying this trade is going to happen. But since there seems to be so much interest in this topic, I figured I’d turn it over to you. What would you think about a Smith-Hinrich for Bynum-Artest deal? We’ll also put up a poll and see how the voting goes.
By Jeff Schultz
♦
Earlier: Cowardly Bettman ignoring evidence of Thrashers fans
Earlier: Countdown: Bettman, Spirit on Facebook, angry beaver, Monta’s tattoo
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435 comments Add your comment
PaulCrieder
May 27th, 2011
3:03 pm
For all the ignorant thugs out there and in response to the Bynum article, I say, if the Hawks want a group of bandits, punks and thugs, then trade Al Horford, Joe Johnson and Josh Smith for Ron Artest (Berrea horsecollarer and thug); Andrew Bynum (Berrea puncher and thug), and Lamar Odum (Dirk puncher and thug) and bring in those no-good, coward, punks from the Lakers to replace our honorable, noble, great citizen, specular star players of Horford, Johnson and Smith. WHY WOULD ANYBODY WANT TO TRADE GOOD CITIZENS FOR DIRTY CITIZENS? It makes no sense. I like the players that we have. The Hawks finished only TWO GAMES of making the ECF. Dont worry, we’ll get there next year and win the NBA title. It takes time and were almost there. We dont need a bunch of hoodlems on our team.
BristolReynolds
May 27th, 2011
3:18 pm
Andrew “ByteMe” Bynum, Ron Artest and Lamar Odum are HUMAN PIT BULLS
Really trade JJ to a Rival??
May 27th, 2011
6:37 pm
Everyone knows about Atlanta’s fairweather LA/Miami/NY/Chicago Bandwagon
u guys want to trade JJ bcuz u feel sorry for Derrick Rose? too bad
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=3sj5mlk
^even here they increase 3 wins and we lose about 5.
Unless you guys believe Marvin can guard Joe Johnson no thanks. Not handing an EC Finalist our best plus/minus offensive player.
I wonder, can Marvin score and defend JJ in practice? both are 6′8 and 250 and have their best games at the 2 guard.
Even then trade Joe to Minnesota or Dallas. Western Conference teams only! unless NY wants to trade Carmelo for him.
Or maybe Joe Johnson, Marvin Pachulia for Elton Brand, Iguodala. Then Al Horford for Bogut.
Teague+ Iguodala+Josh Smith+Elton Brand+Bogut
they want to get rid of both Iguodala and Brand especially if they draft another big.
holiday+Johnson+Turner+Thaddeus Young+
TheMaven
May 27th, 2011
9:06 pm
Lol this would kill the hawks josh is the best player on the team he will be a hall of famer he has an amazing chance to be the leader in blocks of all times by the time he is done lol. if anything i say is keep your core smith horford johnson and crawford then make cap for 2012’s free agent class there will hopefully be a lot of good pg that year like rose, williams and cp3. also try to go for hibbert maybe even wallace
falconsjrt
May 28th, 2011
3:55 am
first i would like to say that we should keep kirk but trade marvin williams and josh smith to l.a. for bynum and artest and RESIGN jamall crawford asap. Also start jeff teauge. BUT we NEED to get DWIGHT HOWARD back home where he belongs in atlanta. rick sund wake up and shake things up and give our great hawks fans something to look foward to next season to take us to the next level THE BEST TEAM IN THE EAST IF NOT THE NBA!!!!!!!!
Hosemaze
May 28th, 2011
10:17 am
Take out Hinrich and Artest insert Crawford and Shannon Brown younger more athletic than J.C. is always in play for 6th man award replaces Joshes highlights on ESPN with rim shaking dunks to excite home crowd. And always us to move Marvin and ZaZa for another piece.
Teague/Hinrich
Hinrich /Brown
Johnson/Williams?/Wilkins
Horford/Kirlenko ?/Armstrong
Bynum/ZaZa?/Twin
Marvin and ZaZa could bring us a serviceable player like Kirlenko who also helps offset the loss of Josh’s defense with his weakside blocks and could return to his allstar form in this line up and is a decent 3 point shooter can swing between the 3 and 4 very nice team very balanced as Al could shift to Center when Bynum is on bench i’d do it if Brown is swapped for Artest other wise only Josh for Bynum straight up or no deal.
nice
May 28th, 2011
11:15 am
Teague+ Iguodala+Josh Smith+Elton Brand+Bogut
nice
May 28th, 2011
11:16 am
yes Horford for Bynum head up would be the best move for the team.
nice
May 28th, 2011
11:19 am
you lose nothing by trading Horford for Bynum but you gain an force in the paint that horfords not. Put that be sides Josh in the paint JJ at the 3 and teague and Hinrich in the back court with crawford coming off the bench and you are instantly competitive. Of course you will need a real coach, like say a mike woodson….
nice
May 28th, 2011
11:24 am
hey Schultz, pretend like you are non partial and now take a poll and see how many would favor a Horford Bynum trade
ROFLMAO
You already know this would not be split like the Josh slander you wrote. The Majority of the city,(those who havent given up hope) would trade Hoford for Bynum by a 8 to 2 margin. Not even close.
5 on 5
May 28th, 2011
3:14 pm
Thats true.
Teague
Hinrick
JJ
JSmoove
Bynum
Thats nice but whats better is
Teague
Hinrick
jj
Smoove
Howard
and then get a coach not an assistant coach like Drew and dont hire his mother either!
5 on 5
May 28th, 2011
3:25 pm
And ditto on the weak and slanted position of Schultz trying to move Smoove. I too dare him to offer Horford’s neck and I agree if the slanderous writing is the same, degrading, then those wanting Horford gone would be more decisive like a 9-1 ,8-2 or 7-3 not a near split like you have with after this biased writing.
Playing favorites rather that increasing talent doesnt make teams better
Yes its time for Horford to go.
Really trade JJ to a Rival??
May 28th, 2011
5:08 pm
In addition to scouting them I included measurements that suggest similar comparisons and similar physical toolboxes.
D.M. the post play and 15 foot & 3pt shot is present in D.M. only thing he does is like Blake Griffin he has short arms and gives up a bit defensively. I think Clippers are happy with Blake though. He takes jumpers. 7′0 Motiejunas shoots accurately with his height advantage like Garnett.
a perfect glue guy.
Jeff Teague/Joe Johnson/Josh Smith/Donatas Motiejunas*/Hasheem Thabeet
Kirk Hinrich/Travis Leslie*/(Marvin Williams)/Jordan Hill/Zaza Pachulia
:::::
Houston gets
Al Horford
Pape Sy
Atlanta gets
Hasheem Thabeet
Jordan Hill
14th pick
23rd pick
:::
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=3to95gw
don’t know what the Rockets game plan is but this team basically turned
>>>Jason Collins into Thabeet.
Al Horford >>>
1) potential Dwyane Wade/Tony Allen with offense off the bench (no talent drop off):o ,
2) potential Zach Randolph (measurements fit here as well), some say small arms are detriment for bigs but its all about proportions.
3) Moved Marvin a guy who has the arms of a center and moves like it to the bench in favor of Josh Smith a guy who has Lebron’s, Carmelo’s and Thaddeus Young’s points per possession efficiency in 2009-2010.
“After after a summer with Olajuwon, both Kobe Bryant and Josh Smith saw a significant dip in their eFG% around the rim this past season. 6-8 Josh Smith (PF) scored less often per possession and less efficiently in the post than many other forwards, including 6-8 LeBron James (SF), 6′10 Lamar Odom (PF), 6′10 Rashard Lewis (PF) and 6′8 Luol Deng (SF) to name a few.
“This doesn’t mean that they’re not learning, however, or that their time with Olajuwon had a negative impact on their post games. In fact, perhaps due to their summer workouts, both Bryant and Smith internalized Olajuwon’s advice and looked to be more active in the post last season. Bryant spent 19.4 percent of his time in the post, an unbelievably high number for a guard, which equaled the amount of time spent in the post by guards Dwyane Wade (6 percent), Brandon Roy (6.3 percent) and Vince Carter (7.1 percent) combined.
Smith worked 18.7 percent of his offense in the post, which was significantly more than the aforementioned forwards James (6.3 percent), Odom (9.4 percent), Lewis (12 percent) and Deng (6.9 percent). Carmelo w Ultimately, it’s quite common for a player to experience a drop in efficiency with a large increase in attempts in a certain area, highlighting what tends to be a negative relationship between frequency and efficiency.” Also at work here may be Smith combating actual bigs like Gasol, Bosh and Garnett.
Ideally at 230-236 he has a higher usage and be able to attack more efficiently and stay out of foul trouble.
:::::
Jeff Teague/Joe Johnson/Josh Smith/Donatas Motiejunas*/Hasheem Thabeet
Kirk Hinrich/Travis Leslie*/(Marvin Williams)/Jordan Hill/Zaza Pachulia
Similar height = similar center of gravity. Similar wingspan often means similar ball control/ability to dunk/shoot over defenders in the post.
Oe a catapult’s trajectory.
There are many different combinations of weight, height, and wingspan, standing reach and vertical as well.
For example
Here are similar
Height Wingspan Weight
Donatas Motiejunas 7′0″ 6′11″ 220 lbs.
Zach Randolph 6′10.25 6′11″ 255
Blake Griffin 6′10″ 6′ 11.25″ 248
Kevin Love 6′ 9.5″ 6′ 11.25″ 255
**Prospectus: 7′0 Boris Diaw/Zach Randolph. why he may fall: nonchalance.
#14 Atlanta Hawks Select: Donatas Motiejunas
Chris Paul 6′ 1″ 6′ 4.25″ 190
Jeff Teague 6′ 1.5″ 6′ 7.5″ 175
Derrick Rose 6′2.5″ 6′ 8″ 196
**Prospectus: skies the limit
Jordan Hill 6′10.25 7′1.5″ 232
Amare-lite
Amare Stoudemire 6′10 7′ 1.75″ 233
**Prospectus: bootleg Amare, more fluid Al Horford,
James Harden 6′ 5.25″ 6′ 10.75″ 222
Dwyane Wade 6′ 4.75″ 6′ 10.75″ 222
Travis Leslie 6′ 4.25″ 6′ 10.5″ 205
Tony Allen 6′ 4.25″ 6′ 9″ 214
#23 Atlanta Hawks Select: Travis Leslie
**Prospectus: low center of gravity, explosive slasher, defend
///////////////
Jeff Teague/Joe Johnson/Josh Smith/Donatas Motiejunas*/Hasheem Thabeet
Kirk Hinrich/Travis Leslie*/(Marvin Williams)/Jordan Hill/Zaza Pachulia
model: 07-08 Celtics/’10-’11 Mavericks
Orlando Hawks
May 28th, 2011
6:05 pm
Anybody who thinks the Hawks can win with Kirk Hinrich as a 2 is silly. Bynum is not Shaq.
Because Marvin makes so much $ Hawks feel embarassed to sit him.
Its best they admit mistakes. But at the same time Jason Collins?
Hawks are too embarassed to sit Teague and are flattered that someone thinks Al Horford is going to turn into Amare (1 inch less wingspan/dribbling) or Zach Randolph (too lanky)
or Blake Griffin (lol arms too long) or Elton Brand (arms too short) or Dirk Nowitzki (too short)
or Wes Unseld (too tall, arms too short).
Where are u guys basing this comparison? Because he went to college for 3 years? That takes AWAY from potential. Horford is an unfortunate combination of strength and wingspan. He will never be able to be a go shoot over Dirk a pound Dirk into the paint. Only hope is to develop a 3. But then he becomes Bargnani lol
No upside in this league. He did not “develop” a jumper that’s how he’s always scored. Josh has a better center of gravity at the 3 than Horford ever will at the 4. Its the truth check draftexpress. Horford’s reach and length are stuck between David Lee + Stoudemire. He barely beat out Bass and Andersen.
Jeff Teague/Joe Johnson/Josh Smith/Donatas Motiejunas*/Hasheem Thabeet
Kirk Hinrich/Travis Leslie*/(Marvin Williams)/Jordan Hill/Zaza Pachulia
:::::
Houston gets
Al Horford
Pape Sy
Atlanta gets
Hasheem Thabeet
Jordan Hill
14th pick
23rd pick
:::
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=3to95gw
Robotic like Stoudemire This is where the game stops.
:::
Give me Motiejunas. fluid in the post and has the ability to create his shot AND hit pick and pops fluidly AND put the ball on the floor and create opportunities.
Give me Travis Leslie. Hands and wingspan only held by 1 guys his height. Dwyane Wade. The last guy to have a 6′10.75 wingspan? James Harden. Yeah. Notice the similarities between the two? This guy has a higher vert than all of them. This could be due to weight, But just like symmetry and boxing they called measurements for a reason. They help determine potential strengths and weaknesses.
Horford will never be as fluid as Amare or Boozer or Dirk or David Lee or even average scrubs etc. He is more of a center and to his credit has a solid bulky body like a center. If he had one more inch he’d be tied with Amare for wingspan. shame even they shared the same vert.
There is no way Horford puts up 20 shots against a Bosh or Garnett and he’s like Joe at the PF he rarely gets to the line.
Jeff Teague(16 & 6apg)/Joe Johnson (17 & 5apg)/Josh Smith (17 & 9rpg)/Donatas Motiejunas* (16 & 8rpg)/Hasheem Thabeet (8 & 8)*
Bench: Kirk Hinrich/Travis Leslie*/(Marvin Williams)/Jordan Hill/Zaza Pachulia
Rajon Rondo (10 & 6ast)/Ray Allen(16 & 3ast)/Paul Pierce(20 & 5reb)/Kevin Garnett(18 & 8)/Kendrick Perkins (8 &
This is what it takes to win a championship. Ask Rashard Lewis, assuming you have a center, its a power forward’s league.
Motiejunas, Travis Leslie = Zach Randolph and a defense 1st slasher that is the 1st guy 6′4 through 6′5 with a Dwyane Wade toolbox. The last was James Harden. And before that there was an LSU guard by the name of Marcus Thornton. He posted up in college and let it be known he posts up smaller 1s/2s when he can.
If the Hswkd neglect to trade they will regret this forever.
bldvl89
May 29th, 2011
12:00 am
As crazy as Josh has driven me with his immaturity (he is the poster child for someone who would have benefitted from a couple of years of college socialization), brain farts, awful shot selection, inconsistent effort, and penchant for arguing with refs at one end of the floor while all the action is happening at the other, there’s no way him and Hinrich for Bynum and Artest could be good in any way for the Hawks.
Bynum is hurt an awful lot and Artest, besides being a psychotic head case with character issues that the Hawks don’t need, is long in the tooth. Smith is the Hawks’ most athletic player and is an extraordinary defensive stopper – more than Bynum and Artest would ever be. I also think the Hawks will need Hinrich next year, particularly if management decides not to pony up for Crawford (which would probably be better anyway, considering Crawford has got to be the worst on-the-ball defender in NBA). Hinrich is an offensive downgrade from Crawford, but such a dramatic defensive improvement that I think he would be a plus replacement for him.
Let Crawford walk, dump Marvin, and use the money to find one more long body that likes to rebound (like say a Taj Gibson type).
5 on 5
May 29th, 2011
6:53 am
I have to agree with the guys whose voice is being denied by the press, but not buy the turnstile. Al Horford Suck. How much of an anti team attitude can you tolerate from Al? He was asks to play center. @ 6 10 1/2 (his daddy is 7ft) you expect Al to embrace his role and play. Instead he is one of the weakest starting front line players from a defensive stand point in the NBA. Al Suck. he WILL NOT play defense. When he starts whining about its to much work for him to be a center and whining about being scared of Amare or b!tching about Id rather play Power forward, it just disgusting. NO TEAM SPIRIT FROM AL.
Just because Josh is multi talented and can play the 3 or 4 is no reason for Al to beg out of his responsibilities. Josh is a better power forward than Al and Josh is a better defender than Al. SO WHY WEAKEN at the power forward to accommodate Al’s lack of internal fortitude? I would never go to war with Al. He was given an assignment and a chance to show leadership. He not only failed miserably, but his cancer has everyone else out of position and unhappy. GET RID OF AL HORFORD! He doesnt have what it takes to be a soldier in the war of the NBA COURT.
YOU WILL NEVER,WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP WITH AL ON YOUR FRONT COURT!
frankBanks
May 29th, 2011
6:40 pm
LOL! you really think lakers would get rid of bynum AND ron ron for josh smith and hirich?? maybe josh smith, joe johnson and jamal crawford…maybe. Theres no way they give their emerging star away for peanuts. c’mon guy, use that melon before you write your amature articles.
Samuel
May 29th, 2011
7:41 pm
I heard Sund say the team is close to competing for a championship. But he hasn’t said what he can do to make the team better. He needs guys who are good shooters that can shoot without dribbling…..
5 on 5
May 29th, 2011
9:30 pm
The hawks are worst this year than last. The Hawks were 1 and done again. As usual. Trying to put a positive spend on this sh!t is stupid. The hawks Suck and thats why they cant win, they are obsessed with mediocrity…. (see Al Horford). Sells are down in case you havent notice Sund. Nobody’s buying that sh!t.
I see you guys about this time next year and well have a de ja vu party.
Lottery in 3
hindenburg
May 29th, 2011
9:51 pm
can any one explain why horford never shows up for the big games? Or against real players? Did any one witness that play off Fart ? dude why does horford still have a job?
The Game Has Changed
May 30th, 2011
11:27 am
@5 on 5- What do you mean we were one and done. Orlando was one and done. The Spurs were one and done.
The Game Has Changed
May 30th, 2011
11:29 am
@Frankbanks- Fisher is done. So I think a Hinrich-Bryant-J. Smith combo wouldnt look that bad. But if I was the Hawks I would hold on to Josh and just go after a free agent center. Bynum health is fading fast.
Smith brings Great Disharmony
May 30th, 2011
12:59 pm
Fighting with Refs, Coaches, teammates, sports writers, fans and the league. Almost universally hated by the other starters, the Hawks can’t win with so much ignorance (on Smith’s part) and hatred for him (by his team mates).
You can’t fix stupid, but you can trade it.
Schultz
May 30th, 2011
2:11 pm
If Al could play as well as Josh then we wouldnt have to plant these negative seeds against Josh. We all know its either Josh or Al for the Forward position once we find a center. All the Al fans are spewing hate on Josh, without thinking whats best for the hawks. They blindly hate Josh to support Al. All that hate wont make Al play any better.
Let Jsmoove and Al play 1 ON 1 and the loser gets traded, the best play stays. Just that simple haters….dont you have confidence in Al? Or is your hatred of Josh a concession that Josh is the better player?
Dude !
May 30th, 2011
2:19 pm
Thats an excellent point Schultz, that nasty negative hater aid on Josh is a smear camping to compensate for the weak and heartless defender Al is. No need to get nasty. It is what it is….
Dude !
May 30th, 2011
2:20 pm
Ditto 5 on 5
May 29th, 2011
6:53 am
5 on 5
May 30th, 2011
4:34 pm
The Game Has Changed The Hawks won 1 series and they were done. They did not pass the 2nd round, the same as last year and the year before. You say well we won 2 games in the second round. I laugh. You won two games against a team you could have beat, but you did not. Chicago is not much better than the hawks. In fact we may have more talent over all than Chicago and we still lost in six. How is that competing? Gee, You guys will never win because you are always depending on welfare for a hand out. The ball is thrown up in the air…Go Get It! dont wait for it to come down to you. The hawks have a mediocrity attitude. Atlanta won 1 series and then were done, just like they did the last 2 years…. and you want me to put a positive spin on the sh!t? Like I said last year and the year before. Ill see you back here next year and we can play this same Damn De Ja Vu Cee fckin Dee.
You got to get rid of the mediocrity in the front court named AL Horford if you are going to the next level. Thats what cost Woodson his Job.
Al is average at best.
doug1902
May 31st, 2011
7:56 am
trade joe and al for dwight howard. josh,howard and marvin would be formidable as a frontline. teague and hindrich your backcourt.
WaltFrazier
May 31st, 2011
11:01 am
JOSH SMITH WILL BE A HALL-OF-FAME PLAYER SOMEDAY. The question will be will it be for the Atlanta Hawks or for some other franchise. Josh has probably more upside potential than any player in the league including LaBron James, Kobe Bryant and D-Wade. JOSH SMITH IS GUARANTEED TO MAKE THE HALL OF FAME WHEN HIS PLAYING CAREER IS OVER.
WreckingBall
May 31st, 2011
11:31 am
Everybody keeps saying, “DUMP MARVIN”, but before you dump him you have to make sure you get even compensation for him. Marvin can look good at times, but most of the times he looks plain aweful. When Marvin is firing on all cylinders, he can shoot as good as Pistol Pete Maravich. When Marvin is off his game (WHICH IS 99.9% OF THE TIME), Marvin looks clueless out there. Lets trade Marvin for Andrew Bogut or Baron Davis and upgrade our team.
LovelaceGoldminter
May 31st, 2011
11:44 am
Trade Marvin Williams and Kirk Hinrich for Dwight Howard. Dwight wants to play for the Hawks so he can come home and play in Atlanta. The Hawks should not lose sight of the fact that Dwight is an Atlanta native.
blackassassin
May 31st, 2011
12:05 pm
as usual Jeff is wrong…this would be a great deal for the Lakers and a typical deal for Atlanta franchises…you get a good player in bynam who hasn’t played a full season …now with bad knees…and a good but old ron artest…only in atlanta could an allstar be run out of town…every other franchise in the NBA would love to have j smooth….btw does joe johnson know what defense, passing, rebounding, TEAM MEAN? geez….you people in atlanta are funny….marvin williams would be the tenth man on most NBA teams….anyway the joe johnson deal sealed the hawks fate for years to come…YOU GAVE THE WRONG GUY ALL THE MONEY……
michaelanthony neal
May 31st, 2011
12:08 pm
‘Hell’ Know !!!! mavrin williams is the one that should be Trade !!!!!
DownGoesFrazier
May 31st, 2011
12:21 pm
Newsflash: It was just reported that the Atlanta Thrashers are officially sold and will be moving to Winnepeg, Canada. Hopefully the Hawks will be next. The city of atlanta doesnt deserve a hockey or a basketball team. The Hawks stink and have no chance of improving. The management team keeps making bad draft picks and then when there are low-priced free agents to improve the club, other teams beat us to the punch. THE HAWKS WILL NEVER GET ANYWHERE IN ATLANTA. Once the Hawks relocate somewhere else and they acquire great ownership and management teams, the Hawks will win an NBA title.
JesusSilverstein
May 31st, 2011
4:15 pm
The reason why so many folks are so DISAPPOINTED with Smiths progress thus far in his career is that the majority of Hawks fans realize that Smith has the potential to be the greatest player in NBA history. They hate to see the guy wasting his talents and ruining his career. If Smith were to play up to his potential, JOSH SMITH WOULD BE A FIRST-BALLOT HALL OF FAME PLAYER when his playing career is over.