Cowardly Bettman ignoring evidence of Thrashers fans

The NHL’s business model: take a franchise from an emerging market with 5.3M people and move it to a city of 725k with a dwindling economic presence who couldn’t hold onto a franchise a few years ago. And you wonder why the NHL is the least profitable of the big 4 sports.

• Link
• Report this comment

Jeff, you are one of the only rays of sunshine us Thrasher faithful have had during the past few months. Great blog. Stick it to the ASG and then to Bettman! Do me a favor and send a copy of this and your ASG blog over the folks at ESPN, NESN, TSN, HNIC etc. and get them off Atlanta’s back. Between Bettman and the ASG this whole thing is a charade. After years of buying into the arguments about the ATL being a fairweather sports town, I’m mellowing a bit. Maybe we are just better sports consumers than some of those other cities that constantly put us down.

• Link
• Report this comment

The ASG is horrible and have mismanaged everything under the banner. TRUE. However, there has to be an ownership group in town that is willing to step up to the plate to purchase the franchise and keep the Thrashers in Atlanta. From everything I have read ASG has been trying to sell the team for 3+ years and there has not been anyone in the Atlanta area willing to purchase the team.

There is a lot of fault to go around- the owner is terrible, Bettman could have stepped in sooner but how much could he really do? No sports league should be able to take over a franchise and force an owner to sell that team if they can pay their bills. The league could have made it hard on the ASG group but what else could the league really do? If you are a sports fan what would you want them to do? You don’t want the league (any league) walking in and taking back the team because the league doesn’t like an ownership style. Donald Sterling has owned the Clippers for years and Stern just smiles at him.

Bottom line is the fans of the Thrashers get hosed.

• Link
• Report this comment

I hate to see the Thrashers go, but the season is too long and the games are just too expensive to attend. When I started following the NY Rangers back in the 1970’s, the season started at Halloween and was over by Mother’s day. That’s enough. Now….6 preseason games, 84 regular games, 4 rounds of playoffs and higher ticket prices. Oh well……

• Link
• Report this comment

Tim Ecclestone is pissed.

• Link
• Report this comment

Great article Jeff – completely and utterly hit the nail on the head. If the Thrashers were winning (man that sure would have been nice) and we were only drawing crowds of 10-12k, then he’d have an argument and wouldn’t blame him or the NHL for moving the team.

Everyone is blaming the fans, and like you have perfectly pointed out – that is just plain wrong.

• Link
• Report this comment

Preach it, Schultzie…go get ‘em!

• Link
• Report this comment

I think Bettman’s comments are less about Atlanta and more of a word of warning to fans in Miami, Columbus and elsewhere. He knows there’s nothing he can really do in Atlanta so it’s all about sending a message to those other markets- support your crummy teams with owners who do at least care a little bit or else as soon as an arena gets built in Quebec you’ll suffer the same fate.

• Link
• Report this comment

Before the Winnipeg trolls come it – let’s point out THAT WE KNOW the last season of the Jets was a lame duck season. You knew the team was leaving. We know, we know, we know….

Ya skewered him Jeff. And its all true. He can spin it any way he wants, but when he looks in the mirror and has to be honest with HIMSELF….he knows. Its all about the all new relocation fee…y’know the one that did not exist QUE to COL, or HFD to CAR or WPG to PHX…even MIN to DAL – NO RELOCATION FEE EVER!!! It’s all about covering the PHX ownership losses – of which Bettman will not back down from or Balsille will have exposed a way to backhandedly get a franchise.

• Link
• Report this comment

I bet Mr. Bettman can give you 60 million reasons why Winnipeg will work this time around.

• Link
• Report this comment

What do you know about hockey jarvis? Shouldn’t you be in another blog, pretending to be an internet toughie?

• Link
• Report this comment

Boomer, where are you when we need you?

• Link
• Report this comment

Well, I guess it’s better late than never to join the party, Schultz. Oh wait, no it’s not better. You’re trying to CYA after being nothing but negative over this TEAM over the years, and now you’re on the fans’ side? Where were these stories over the last few years? On the message boards, that’s where. Definitely not in the AJC. It’s the media that has given everyone else the impression that there are no fans in Atlanta, because that’s the only thing you reported. No one ever cared enough to do their job and figure out why the support wasn’t there. Until now. And it’s probably too late.

So, you, and the mayor, and the owners, and all the bandwagon jumpers who jumped on the idea that there was no support for the Thrashers because there were no fans here…

Thanks for nothing.

• Link
• Report this comment

We used to get a stray NHL exhibition game here now and then during the years between the Flames and Thrashers. Think Bettman would be stupid enough to do that again?

• Link
• Report this comment

By the way the number the the ASG keeps throwing around that they lose $20 mil a year on the Thrashers is complete BS. Open up the books and prove it to us all. If they lost $80 million in the last 4 years all of them would be bankrupt from having to fund operations. I see no one filing for bankruptcy in the ownership group.

This franchise was doomed from the start by a poor location choice for games. Who really wants to drive downtown at night where there is no place to eat. You are hammered by a monopoly on food and beverage prices. Even better lets start the games at 7 so that parents can’t get home and get kids and make it to a game on time. Last time I checked the majority of fans don’t live anywhere near Philips. Who decided to put the arena there? Ted Turner.

• Link
• Report this comment

I’m truly humbled by Gary Bettman’s PROFESSIONALISM.

• Link
• Report this comment

He certainly is quiet, isn’t he?

• Link
• Report this comment

Misconceptions about Thrash and Relocation:

http://www.keepthethrashers.com//videokeepthrashersreally.html

• Link
• Report this comment

The author makes some good points and definitely, a losing team year after year is a recipe for disaster in any market. But the stat about attendance during the Jets’ last season in Winnipeg is misleading. They averaged 11,000 fans per game AFTER it was announced that the team was leaving at the end of the year. So that entire season was as a lame duck and they still drew that many fans to the building 40+ times. I feel badly for the Atlanta faithful here, but in the same situation, I highly doubt the Thrashes would have been drawing anything near that number. Go, Jets, go!

• Link
• Report this comment

“Gary Bettman is blaming Atlanta hockey fans for not supporting a bad product.”

Because he’s a p@#$y and won’t stand up to pressure from the Canadian zealots who want another team anymore. And he does it at our expense…again…because he’s a p@#$y.

• Link
• Report this comment

@Mav

What is the difference between what happen to Winnipeg in 1995, and Atlanta in 2011? It was discovered that ASG had been secretly trying to sell the team. After I heard that I stopped going to games. At least Winnipeg had an ownership group that was trying to win. The ASG put all their money in the Hawks.

• Link
• Report this comment

I just think the NHL is desperate at this point. Thier labor and business costs are too high for thier current situation.

Winnepeg will sell tickets for good sums I have no doubt, but when half or more of the clubs are losing money there’s a problem.

Bettman’s leadership has led them into the toilet.

• Link
• Report this comment

@Howard If everything you have read says that ASG has benn trying to sell the team for 3+ years, you haven’t read enough. They did not have clear ownership until this past December, so to say they were trying to sell is only a CYA tactic. That’s like saying I have been trying to sell my car for 3 years, even though I’m not sure who owns it. It’s impossible to buy something without knowing who the owner is.

@Tab Bamford – You illustrate the point perfectly well, but somehow fail to miss it altogether. Typical ignorance. Attendance and TV ratings come from having a product worth seeing and watching. Owners continually put out a sup-par product, charged more for it, and told us to “deal with it”. We did deal with it the only way we could. We didn’t put up with it.

Atlanta Thrashers fans want a winner, or at least a competitive product, and we have proven over and over again that the fans are here when that happens. We’ll even support rebuilding IF we are rebuilding after a period of success. We’ve never had that period of success, and are constantly in a rebuilding phase. A phase that causes free agents to leave or avoid ATL because they saw no evidence of the owners committed to doing so. So what are we do to? What did Winnepeg do?

Why not blame the players for not supporting the team? When they had a chance, they went to teams with owners that cared, not to teams that drew the biggest crowds because they knew that owners that care will draw bigger crowds.

As recent as December, we got a letter from the owners stating their goal was to bring Stanley Cups to Atlanta. We all knew it was BS. These same owners are sueing their lawyers because the lawsuit against one of their own partners created a situation where they “couldn’t dispose of the Thrashers” for the years the lawsuit dragged on.

“Dispose of the Thrashers”
“Goal of bringing the Stanley Cup to Atlanta”

Anybody else see a problem with those two ideas existing simultaneously?

This stuff needs to be said over and over again until everyone gets it.

• Link
• Report this comment

Great piece, Jeff! Thanks!

Although my love for the Thrashers will follow them to Winnipeg, I am sure the distance will make my want to watch fade, much like when the Flames went to Calgary. This time, though, I won’t continue to watch hockey after it fades because it just isn’t fun anymore.

• Link
• Report this comment

Hindu – Who is bigoted? Not me. I made no judgements based on race. You unfortunately did. Did I mention the racial make up of the the area around Philips? Nope. Who brought up race – YOU DID. My comment is most people don’t want to drive 30-45 minutes downtown where there is nothing to do around the arena. What is racist or bigoted about that?

BIGOT = a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance

Nowhere in my comments did do any of the above – you did you bigot.

• Link
• Report this comment

Bettman never had an original thought, so of course he’s hiding behind the ‘Atlanta has fair weather fans’ tripe. Atlanta fans are not any more fickle than fans anywhere else–we just don’t blindly throw money at inept teams.

Unfortunately, making Atlanta hockey work is now a two-step process. First, someone has to buy the team, and then they have to get them out of Phillips Arena and into a location in North Metro, like Gwinnett Arena. If you plotted the location of Thrashers ticket buyers on a map, I guarantee they live on average 25 miles from the arena, and their geographic center would be around Alpharetta.

This stinks, but everyone take solace in the fact that this is the NHL, and odds are that Atlanta will have a team in whatever association takes the place of this ramshackle, bankrupt ‘league’ in about 10 years.

Heck with it. The Gladiators are better anyway.

• Link
• Report this comment

I wish people would stop referring to hockey as a Big Four sport. Any sport that abandons a market of over 5 million for one of 700,000 cannot be considered Big Four. I like hockey and hate to see Atlanta lose any team, but hockey is a niche sport at best. Not only below the NFL, MLB, NBA, college FB and BB, but probably beneath NASCAR and golf as well. More like big 8 than big 4.

• Link
• Report this comment

@Hindu Elvis Pimp

Wow. You couldn’t be more idiodic in your post. Do you really think that someone is bigoted for that post? I mean really???

What he said is exactly true, and it has nothing to do with color. Holy crap! Nobody I have ever talked to… nobody… has ever mentioned “fear” as a reason, implied or otherwise, even in the most private of conversations, for not going downtown to Philips Arena. Your comparison to the Falcons is laughable. Once a week, 8 games a season Sunday games vs. rush hour mid-week games. Apples to oranges (no color reference there, mind you).

Grow up and realize that you are the one who shows bigotry by trying to find racism where it doesn’t exist.

• Link
• Report this comment

It’s a great post-mortem article, Jeff. That’s for sure. This is a money grab, and the lack of effort on the part of the Commissioner to keep hockey in Atlanta is very evident.

It sickens me how “pleased” so many entities are with this relocation. The NHL is pleased because it’s getting $60-$90 million in the deal. True North is pleased because … they WANT the team. Winnipeg is pleased because they WANT the team. Canada is pleased because, They see Sunbelt franchises as a ‘failed experiment,’ and will point to Atlanta, GA, as “exhibit A.” (Nevermind that’s not true. And I believe the team soldout 38 of 41 home games, after the gate receipts were counted, in 1999, while setting an NHL attendance record for an expansion team.) The Mayor of Atlanta is pleased since … there’s apparently no love of hockey among his voting constituency. The Governor of Georgia is pleased … because … he has some YET TO BE COOKED UP method of reproducing the $30 million in lost State income tax revenue from NHL hockey. And, then there’s Maude. (Sorry.) I meant, then there’s the Atlanta Spirit, LLC, who has wanted to flip the team since they acquired it. So, needless to say, they are “pleased.”

My, my, my. So many “pleased” entities, shouldn’t this by the FEEL GOOD story of the Spring??? How Atlanta ditched hockey, and made everyone but hockey fans happy. It’s kinda crazy. Somewhere, Jim Ballsillie is watching this, in stunned disbelief. He tried and tried and tried to get a team relocated to Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. I believe he targeted the Nashville Predators. Imagine if he’d targeted the Thrashers instead? He’d probably have played a few seasons in Hamilton by now.

To the wonderful hockey fans of Winnipeg I say, “Enjoy the team. You’ve got an ownership group with, to my knowledge, no plans of hiring Don Waddell as GM, nor any designs on Dan Marr, as Head of Scouting. So, you’re starting out BETTER than we did!” To GM Rick Dudley, I wish him the very best of luck as he takes the Thrashers/Jets/Moose and molds them into a Cup winner, hopefully.

Re: Atlanta ever returning to the NHL? Sure, I think it’s possible. But I don’t want that, UNLESS the NHL will actually properly vet an owner or ownership group that will actually CARE for the franchise, and hold accountable the parties that need fixing. Let’s all go support the Gladiators, now. I think their ownership is trying. No reason to withhold our support.

One last thing … and Jeff … I want your feedback on this. “Isn’t it true, that Don Waddell’s name will be forever linked to the most unsuccessfull and detrimental, and inept men in Hockey History? And that THAT will be his legacy, for accepting a “lame duck” paycheck while performing the duties that any accountant in the area, could have done. Namely, adhering to a budget.” Please, posters, weigh in on that.

“What is Don Waddell’s legacy?” Would you say, “He’s the man who crushed hockey in Atlanta.” By my account, he didn’t grow the sport in the region. And he had nine (9) Top 10 overall picks with which to build this franchise. (Stefan, Heatley, Kovalchuk, Lehtonen, Bogosian, Kane, Coburn, Burmistrov, and Alex Borret, 2005, via # 8 overall.) Did ownership ever tell Waddell who to Draft? Could ownership pick out Devin Setoguchi, Marc Staal, or Anze Kopitar in a police lineup, in 2005? If you answered, “No,” then this is Waddell’s fault. And the inability to lock up key player is a shared fault, between ownership and the GM, who jointly misran the organization.

True or false, when you think of faltering GM’s, don’t you think not only of Mike Milbury, but also Don Waddell? Beee honest.

• Link
• Report this comment

Blank wants a stadium a few blocks north of the Dome, actually…

• Link
• Report this comment

Jeff,

Thank you for caring.

Mark Bradley,

Move to Winnipeg.

• Link
• Report this comment

Tom Lysiak’s investment team was going to save us.

• Link
• Report this comment

The Winnipeg Jet attendance numbers in the final season posted in this article are correct; what the author fails to include though is that it was a lame duck season as relocation was announced prior to the beginning of the season. No one wanted to go watch a season long funeral, myself included. As such, the comparison is unfair.

• Link
• Report this comment

Jeff Schultz, thank you for CARING, and trying to point out the folly of our hockey team. I hope Don Waddell will own his failure, rather than try to deflect what has happened. We are, all of us, tied with Waddell for the number of playoff victories for the Thrashers, 11 seasons later.

• Link
• Report this comment

To the author of this article: You have just proven our(Winnipeg’s) point. Atlanta is not a hockey town because you won’t support the team even when it loses. Who cares who owns it or how it is run financially. Take a look at the Maple Leafs under Harold Ballard. True, die-hard hockey fans still filled the seats in a metro area much the size of Atlanta. Why? Because they love hockey. Atlanta does not have enough of a fan-base to support the team when they are not doing well. Granted, your ownership appears to never had an interest in the game at all. That being said, hockey ranks below the LPGA in ratings and even below women’s professional bowling in most of the Southern states(no offense ladies). Now, let’s stop ripping other cities that you know nothing about and get back to reality. Bettman sucks. I have never liked the way he does things. All the rule changes. Moving my Jets in the first place. All Winnipeg needed was a fraction of the help that Bettman is giving Phoenix right now. (Another Southern hockey hotbed, by the looks of things – joke). NHL Hockey belongs in Winnipeg. If we can’t support it this time around, then shame on us.

• Link
• Report this comment

If I had the 170 mil (or my group of average middle class, hockey loving fans) it would certainly be a terrific turnoff on the deal to buy the team from the dysfunctional ASG knowing they still controlled “my” arena for home games. Ted Turner (and his relatives and friends still in the ASG) appear to consider hockey a sideshow in the whole sports picture in Atlanta. The show can be sold and they go on with their corporate/legal/wealthy lives. Atlanta has had two ownership situations whereby the “owners” needed money for other ventures, and to hell with the fans attracted to the sport and team. It seems the NHL should have more “character” when fans in a city are getting screwed. I thought we fans supported the team quite well considering an average of 31 wins a year (out of 82 games) for the eleven years…..and in an economic downturn in Atlanta more profound than many places.

• Link
• Report this comment

Don’t forget Pittsburgh their attendance has been terrible in ANY season without Mario or Sid the kid.

• Link
• Report this comment

THANK YOU! Someone FINALLY gets it! This totally made my day.

• Link
• Report this comment

If the ASG is selling the Thrashers b/c they’re losing money, why are they also trying to sell the Hawks separately? Are they losing money with the Hawks too?

• Link
• Report this comment

I am from western Canada. Played junior hockey there and moved to Atlanta in 1988. Winnipeg just will not work long-term. The Winnipeger’s talk about low unemployment, a high Canadian dollars and a great economy in Manitoba that makes thing different than before. They are RIGHT as they write today. The problem is things to not stay the same. Everything is a cycle. Today the conditions in Winnipeg are perfect. It is the perfect storm. What about 2. 3 or 5 years from now? The Canadian dollar has historically been around 80% of the US dollar, not 105% as it is now. The economy cannot sustain itself at its present level in Winnipeg. When the inevitable down turn happens, and it will, what then?

• Link
• Report this comment

The Winnipeg Jets averaged 11,316 fans in their final season — 2,000 less than the Thrashers drew this year.

Mee-ouch! Go getem Shultz!

• Link
• Report this comment

Whoa, wait just a minute…..

…Atlanta has a hockey team? Ice hockey? Really?

• Link
• Report this comment

Great article, the truth shall set you free. We need smarter owners not more fans, there are plenty around if the product is worth watching.

• Link
• Report this comment

Good blog and the only reason we (winnipeg) pull 11,000 fans was because we knew they were going and we still couldnt sell out the season. i for one will not be bying tickets However, itd good for our local economy so i support the move

Take care atlanta!

• Link
• Report this comment

Jeff, its very simple. The thrashers organization is losing money. They have lost $130 million over the past 6 years. More fans buying tickets would help balance that budget. What about that do you not understand

• Link
• Report this comment

The Thrasher wouldn’t have drawn even IF they had won. Atlanta cares not for hockey. (Who does? Tell me what network shows it. VS? ) Good riddance to the NHL. I know the fans, all of 2 of them, will miss it, but, well, tough noogy.

• Link
• Report this comment

Jeff, funny you use the image of Willie Coyote when the whole mess is about salvaging the Coyote’s team and recoup some of their losses with the sale of the Thrashers. Bettman is a POS and a coward and the single reason for the demise of the NHL.

• Link
• Report this comment

Great point “truth serum”.

I also find it hard to believe that nobody wants to buy the Thrashers for $110 million and keep them in Atlanta. TNSE is going to pay $170 mil but only $110 of that goes to the ASG (the rest goes to the NHL).

• Link
• Report this comment

Cowardly Gary Bettman
is only paid over $7.23 million per year by the struggling NHL.

• Link
• Report this comment

Hard to fathom all the bashing of Winnipeg on here…..you actually are proving how little you know about the great game of hockey. While I understand you are frustrated, being classless does not help the cause. It is easy to sit back and take cheap shots now, but where was the passion before this??? You can be mad at Bettman all you want, but he said it well when he told you that it was a strange way of showing your support by not coming to games……face it, NO ONE wants to buy the franchise in Atlanta b/c of the lack of ability to make $$$ b/c fans are not supportive…..that’s it, that’s all…..

• Link
• Report this comment

Anyone know how much the ASG purchased the Thrashers for?

I know they purchased them along with the Hawks and the operating rights of Philips Arena. I’m looking for specifically how much of the purchase price was attributable to the Thrashers.

• Link
• Report this comment

@ jetsfan We are not supportive of crappy ownership lying to us on a daily basis. We are not supportive of losing 10 out of 11 years. We do not support incompetence. Why didn’t the Peg support the Jets the last year? Who cares if they were sold – you are supposed to blindly support the players right?

• Link
• Report this comment

Good luck Whineypeg,

You will need it. Free agents are not going to play there. Corporate sponsorship? Good luck with Zippy Car Sales and Repair.

Enjoy your $100.00 tickets.

(Nice minor league arena though.)

Your new team is destined for a long stay in the basement. Toronto fans say misery loves company.

• Link
• Report this comment

The Thrasher wouldn’t have drawn even IF they had won. Atlanta cares not for hockey. (Who does? Tell me what network shows it. VS? ) Good riddance to the NHL. I know the fans, all of 2 of them, will miss it, but, well, tough noogy.

Thank you, Nostradamus. I was wondering where you were hiding out these days? I can see that you are obviously hanging out with Harold Camping and his Doomsday sect. Since you know what would have happened if, do us a real favor a tell us something else totally worthless like, I don’t know, how about letting us in on when the world is really going to end. Should be a piece of cake for an all-knowing seer such as yourself.

• Link
• Report this comment

Jeff

Keep the Pressure on.
I use to think you were unfair when it came to the ASG.
I apologize for that!
You had these people figured out from day one.
They threw Bernie down the stairs and kicked him in the gut because he had a relationship with the media and he tried to build the brand which cost money. Mike and bruce were upset by this and the end result was his firing.
They say they spent money on the thrashers early on but decided to take a different path and now we know what that path is.
They say they want to keep thrashers in Atlanta but there are no takers and they even got the mayor to buy in.
I also find the timing of the hawks exclusivity deal on then off very dirty.
I’ve heard Gearon has chilled every local possibility. He goes to media to claim he is losing all of this money and someone must come forward to help share the losses. I guarantee you when he is working on a personal deal he doesn’t talk about the downside as much.
They kept Don on board, why?

There are so many questions…..keep digging Jeff and don’t let these guys off the hook.
Finally, Mason has it right….winning is the sole reason

• Link
• Report this comment

Let me tell YOU a story about an NHL franchise that hasn’t made the play-offs in FIVE years (this after going all the way to the Stanley Cup Final in 2006). In fact, they’ve finished DEAD LAST in the NHL the last TWO seasons…and yet they STILL manage to average 16,000 people per game AND they sell out on a regular basis. Who are they?

They’re the Edmonton Oilers. And why do they sell out? Because Edmonton is a hockey city. Sorry, but Atlanta is NOT a hockey market…as has been proven TWICE now.

• Link
• Report this comment

I went to both Thrasher and Hawks games last year. I only go to mid week games because I live intown and don’t like to mess with huge crowds when I don’t have to. There weren’t anymore fans there for the Hawks games I went to than there were for the Thrashers games I went to. Wonder how long it will be until the ASG ‘has’ to sell the Hawks to an investment group from Saskatchewan? They had a state of the art building and two teams and still couldn’t make the deal work. There is only one reason the Thrashers are leaving – inept ownership.

• Link
• Report this comment

Jeff, you’re right-on. I held on with season tickets for the Thrashers for the first 8 years. I love hockey but they just failed to demonstrate any reason why we should return.
I held Hawks season tickets for 26 years. About 5 years ago, after their 13 win season, my ticket price was raised 56%.
The ownership/management lied to us about their intentions regarding the team. For this we should be showing loyalty to them?

• Link
• Report this comment

“They’re the Edmonton Oilers.”

Another Canadian team that can’t attract free agents, of course they are in the basement every year.

• Link
• Report this comment

Speaking of idiot owners and Edmonton…………who traded away Gretzky?

• Link
• Report this comment

What you are missing is that even if the fans do start showing up if the team starts winning, nobody wants to own the team in atlanta. The reason all the dramatics are happening in Phoenix is that somebody (Matthew Hulziser) wants to own the team there.

Since ASG wants to move the team, and no one wants to buy them locally, what other options does the NHL have? The team has been on the market for too long to just simply wait it out.

My condolences to hockey fans in Atlanta, go habs go

• Link
• Report this comment

Jeff Walker

At least Oiliers have a rich legacy. Terrible comparison.
How can you ask a family to spend 300 bucks o watch a terrible product and be lied to by a bunch of rich greedy untrust worthy litigators.
We never know if Atlanta could have become a Tampa , Dallas, Nashville
The only person In Atlanta that would agree would be ASG who can’t even sell hawks tickets.

• Link
• Report this comment

Bettman showed his true motives with that statement. He defends fans in Phoenix and their lower attendance, but blames fans in Atlanta for not supporting an ownership group that he also detests. If anything, Bettman should be apologizing to – or at least sympathizing with – Atlanta fans for the Atlanta Spirit. But the fact that he choose to ignore the obvious and blame fans was proof that the move to Winnipeg was already a done deal. He is a hypocrite and the other owners are pretty stupid too, because the league will soon be less valuable without Atlanta in it.

• Link
• Report this comment

“A2B — Regarding the “$350 million.” Don’t believe everything you read on Twitter or hear in the rumor mill.”

Jeff, if the AJC knows something to the contrary, why not put the real story out there? That $350 million offer isn’t just some rumor floating around Twitter from questionable sources, that came straight from Anson Carter- someone who has been acknowledged by Darren Dreger as a legitimate party. If you or someone at the AJC know something about Carter’s story, isn’t it your responsibility to report on it?

• Link
• Report this comment

@ASG Your rational is very questionable….You honestly think by not showing up to hockey games is going to bring in another owner?? Sorry for your loss man, but the reality is no one wants to buy the team because it has been proven to be a failure over the course of time….it’s not like this ownership group has not tried to sell the team for a long time…

• Link
• Report this comment

someone said — “Hard to fathom all the bashing of Winnipeg on here…..”

Then you’ve obviously never been to Winnipeg.

Either way, with an arena that only holds 15,000, the attendance will be no better than 22-24th in the league. Unless the new owners want to bleed millions each year (and how many billionaires do you know that like doing that) you will have a team that is not consistenly competitive or ticket prices that will price most locals out. And without corporate support (how many global 500 companies are based in Winnie?) the situation is even more dire. Lastly, the current situation with the weakness of the US dollar is not permanent. You have to wonder if the new owners have planned on what the situation looks like with even a small correction in the USD.

I moved to Atlanta from St Paul and was very surprised at how well the fans supported hockey here. But after three seasons here, it was pretty clear that ASG just didn’t care and couldn’t bribe anyone to stay. When we lost Hossa in 2008 and Ilya in 2010, we all knew the owners didn’t care. If you want to compare the Jet’s last year attendance, the 2008 – 2010 years for the Thrashers are good comparisons.

• Link
• Report this comment

jetsfan,

You’re a complete idiot. The ASG only recently became able to sell the team b/c of the years-long litigation with Belkin.

Enjoy getting your 2nd team. You better hope your fellow dumb schmucks stuck in Winnipeg buy more tickets than last time.

• Link
• Report this comment

For the Winnipeg trolls here or on their way…Take out 95-96. In the two seasons prior to the lame duck season, the Jets drew 13297 and 13013. Still less than the Thrashers drew this year. Others have pointed out that as soon as the exchange rate returns to historical levels, the NHL won’t work in Winnipeg. The truth is there are a handful of teams in trouble. The league needs contraction, not relocation. But, the owners are always out for the quick buck… like the expansion money in the late 90’s.

So. For all you trolls. I look forward to dancing on your grave in 5-10 years, when the team folds or is moved.

• Link
• Report this comment

I think if ANYBODY wanted to buy the Atlanta Thrashers and keep them in Atlanata, the NHL would be happy with that.
However, nobody wants to buy the team. They don’t want to buy the team because it is a money loser. It is a money loser because not enough people showed up at games or watched them on TV.

Those are the facts. It doesn’t matter WHY nobody showed up, causing the team to lose money, causing no one to want it, causing it to move.

• Link
• Report this comment

“Atlanta losing an NHL team isn’t about Atlanta not having enough hockey fans to support a franchise. It’s about the fact that people grew fed up with supporting a bad product run by bad ownership.”

These two sentences sum up the facts of the situation.

The NHL and Spirit Group have nowhere to hide on this one. If they go through with this, the backlash is going to be long and severe.

• Link
• Report this comment

nobody goes to these games cause nobody cares if hockey stays in atlanta except a 100 or so who are so smart they decided to hold a rally to “show” support down in a hole where nobody could see them. hockey won’t be missed by the overall pop in ATL. so who cares? NOBODY!

• Link
• Report this comment

Bettman is an A$$ Hat

• Link
• Report this comment

Jeff Shultz, let me point something out to you about the 11,500 avg attendance you speak of in wpg in their last season. You ignore the fact that it was a lame duck season for us, meaning we had a year knowledge in advance that the Jets were leaving. Do you think this may have been a good reason for the low attendance figures that year? Pretned for moment that you had one year left in Atlanta and you all knew it, what do you think the avg attendance would be? Huh?

• Link
• Report this comment

Has Bettman noticed the economy and unemployment rates suck?

• Link
• Report this comment

And for the record, John Kincaid is Betteman’s/ASG’s Tokyo Rose.

• Link
• Report this comment

Every business acheivement is directly based on advertising….a year ago, I had no idea we even had hockey. I am southern born and breed. We don’t do hockey. We see ice and are terrified. But thanks to a high school field trip. We saw hockey. Wow. What have we been missing! And by the way, we saw hockey players, wow! What have we been missing! Since that day a little over a year ago, I have travelled to Atanta several times a week with at least 12 to 20 teens in our cars. Each trip added more (girl) fans. The journey has become part of our fall, winter, spring routine. And guess what? These girls even learned the game!

Maybe a little more work on that level would solve a lot. Why has no one in the Thrasher organization figured out the power of teen girl dollars? I know, it’s a cop out, but sometimes all it takes is the right marketing…Justin Beber could have told them that!

Admit it guys, you all perform better with the girls screaming for ya!

• Link
• Report this comment

Oh and then they want me to pay like 50 bucks just to get in? Yeah F that.

• Link
• Report this comment

great column Jeff. And thanks for pointing out the last point, which has gotten swept under the rug for the most part.

Annoying how long the NHL is dragging this out. Another month and the move is going to last longer than the short term revenue pop they are going to get from it!

(kidding…sorta).

• Link
• Report this comment

“Others have pointed out that as soon as the exchange rate returns to historical levels, the NHL won’t work in Winnipeg.”

Another interesting comment. I wonder if these same “others” that have pointed this out were also responsible for the mortgage foreclosures in the U.S.that continue to reach “historic levels” and the terrific Health Care system that is place.

• Link
• Report this comment

You are correct, sir. This is a very good write-up of the situation.
I remember attending many Atlanta Knights games when the Omni was packed, and the fans were stoked!

• Link
• Report this comment

AWESOME JOB JEFF !

Bettman: What the difference between a $10 Ho and a $60,000,000 Ho ?

Answer: Nothing…they are both still Ho’s. Only, one works on the street corner and the other works for the NHL.

• Link
• Report this comment

Superb piece of writing here, Mr. Schultz.

• Link
• Report this comment

Ok, enough of the economic bashing. First, a little facts. US GDP is around $14.1 trillion. Canadian GDP is around $1.34 trillion. Do you really want to taunt an economy 10x the size of yours even when we’re sucking wind right now? I know we’ve had some issues lately with mortgage defaults and all but still with those numbers you gotta see why Bettman was desparate to get the NHL going in the US. They’ll be back at some point because frankly, those numbers above are just too big to walk away from forever.

• Link
• Report this comment

Wow! Some clueless fool actually wants to compare the Oilers “Hockey Dynasty” to the Thrashers miserable situation???

What an idiot. The Oilers have had 4 decades to grow their team, the Thashers 1. The Oilers had Wayne Gretzky and Mark Messier, the Thashers Patrick Stefan and Ilya Kovalchuk. The Oilers won 9 Division titles, the Thrashers 1. The Oilers won 2 President’s Trophies, 7 Conference Championships, and 5 Stanley Cups, the Thrashers have won 0 playoff games. In fact, the Thrashers have played in 4 out of a minimally possible 44 – 77 games or, in other words, 5% of the first round playoff games they – like every other team – had a chance of competing in over the past 11 years.

Post your ignorant troll comments elsewhere. If the Thrashers had the time, committment, and succes that the Oilers have had, then you may have a point. But, what the reality is and greatest fear for trolls like you is the Atlanta Thrashers even having a chance at the same success the Oilers have had. For if they did, you know they would not be in the situation they are in now or ever would be.

The Atlanta Thrashers “Hockey Dynasty” in the Southern US of A, Canadian Trolls’ greatest fear. It always has been and it always will be.

• Link
• Report this comment

Green Bay is able to keep an NFL team because of the huge TV deal. Something the NHL will never have.

• Link
• Report this comment

Gary Bettman’s comments were accurate, and the article (by Jeff Schultz) is just reactionary nonsense. Bettman is correct that low attendance will never attract a potential buyer to keep the team in Atlanta, good team or bad. If Thrasher fans want the team to stay in Atlanta, they have to purchase tickets. That may seem wrong to Schultz, but its not a shocking revelation. The team also needed greater corporate support. If fans are only willing to pay to see a winner, they had better move to New York where there’s big-spending owners.

• Link
• Report this comment

Just like Los Angeles said to the NFL: “Later!” To H with ‘em.

I’m hoping Arthur Blank will start an MLS team in Atlanta and show these idiots how it’s done.

• Link
• Report this comment

“The Winnipeg Jets averaged 11,316 fans in their final season — 2,000 less than the Thrashers drew this year. Don’t expect to read that in the news release.”

The Jets were already sold and it was a lame duck season. I like how Schultz ignores that relevant point to make his grand finale to the article.

Stop being a hack, Jeff, and not use misleading points in your articles… unless that point was made out of your ignorance… A nice trait for a jounalist, hmm?

• Link
• Report this comment

Bettman needs to check out the payroll of the Trashers, lowest in the league.The sorry owners never made a commitment to the team. Just a bunch of w—–.,trying to grab the money and run. Don Waddell has been a joke since the day he arrived in Atlanta. As GM he never had a decent draft, never made a decent trade Maybe Bettman needs to check this out before he blames the fans

• Link
• Report this comment

I find it fascinating that the commissioner feels that the only reason we should attend games that offer a sub-standard is that we will frighten off potential buyers of that sub-standard team. Let’s reward ineptitude with full rafters, sold out merchandise, purchasing $10 beers and a fat profit at the sale to another group of inept owners. Gee Gary, seems a little one sided, don’t you think. Oh, that’s right. You represent the owners, not the players or the fans.
Let’s see what you’ve done to help hockey in Atlanta:
1) You approved a group of owners with no reason to work together and no real affection for Atlanta.
2) You put all of your games on Versus and NBC. Both of which have little or NO ability to promote your game to its viewers (”Hey Bull Riding fans stay tuned to the Sharks vs the Thrashers coming up next!!!”). Ever see a hockey promo on Football Night In America? Maybe I missed it!!
3)2005 All Star Game in Atlanta…oh wait no season that year. Well Atlanta can wait a few more years. By the way, we sold it out in 2008!
4)Danny Heatly…too many bad memories. Move him to The Senators
Kovelchuk….Move him to the Devils
Every other reasonably big name (Hosea)dealt away for NOTHING in return
Mr.Bettman, your people should be asking how in the world you lost the profit potential of the 7th largest market in America and forced that team to make The Moose move to St. John’s.
There are many reasons the Thrashers failed in Atlanta. Don’t you dare point your finger at the fans. Bring on the AHL. The Atlanta Knights won a championship and were fun to watch and be a part of.

• Link
• Report this comment

Guffman….Please address the Jets average attendance from 1989-1990 to the end of the 1994-1995 season. Very poor attendance in all of those seasons.

• Link
• Report this comment

In terms of average attendence, 15 to 20 years ago, Winnipeg was about 1500 under league average in a 40 year old dump of an arena. Atlanta was 4000 fans under the league average in a modern arena.

Again, if you want to draw comparisons, use relevant information.

• Link
• Report this comment

Jeff: This is your best work yet. Next time you should throw in that Bettman’s third cousin once removed was once found guilty of jaywalking in Savannah in 1901. The AJC is horrible. I can’t believe you ran that story yesterday about our wide receiver’s cousin–shame on you all. Here’s a big F . . . .U to you AJC

• Link
• Report this comment

Attendance has nothing to do with it as Winnipeg will have the smallest rink in the NHL but because ticket prices will be more than almost every American team, they will be make a ton of money. Canadians buy a ridiculous amount of merch and Canadian TV revenue is a hell of a lot bigger than American. The Thrashers only lose money. Even if Atlanta increased their attendance, they’d probably still be a money loser.

• Link
• Report this comment

Attendance figures are totally relevant to the discussion, since we are discussing attendance. Philips is modern but in a very poor location, so that cancels out the Winnipeg arena being a dump. The Jets were decent on the ice from 89 to 93, performing better than the Thrashers have in most seasons. Again I ask, why the lack of support from the great people of Winnipeg.

• Link
• Report this comment

35,000 people to “Save the Jets” rally 15 years ago; 200 people at Atlanta Thrashers rally……shows how fans care.

• Link
• Report this comment

Blake,

You’re an idiot. Nobody goes to Islanders games and Boulder doesn’t have a hockey team.

• Link
• Report this comment

Nicely said Jeff, and right on the money. For those of us who feel like a doormat lately, it’s nice to read a piece like this, even if it ultimately only serves to make us feel better (temporarily).

• Link
• Report this comment

gtbeak – “Again I ask, why the lack of support from the great people of Winnipeg.”

Again, concessions/parking, etc. were not controlled by the owners. Thus, even at 12,000 people at $20 xtra per game X 41 games brings in an extra $7.3 M in yearly revenue back in the 90’s. Compare that to today’s inflation and the team would have stayed had the owners had that revenue stream. It’s like losing $20+ M today. Plus, Winnipeg had competitive teams in one of the best Divisions in hockey. If the ASG owns the team and controls the amenities to boot, and they still lose money with one of the lowest (if not the lowest) payrolls, then it says a lot about fan support and willingness to pay to support the product.

• Link
• Report this comment

Anyone coming on here talking about how Winnipeg is a superior hockey city to Atlanta is a total dolt. You just lost a friggin team 15 years ago! Shut up!

• Link
• Report this comment

The ASG is going to have a hard time getting people to support the Hawks after all of this nonsense. I know I won’t be giving them anymore of my money.

• Link
• Report this comment

“Also, as was pointed out, Winnipeg pop. 700,000+; Atlanta region 5,000,000+. Only 2,000 more people???? Should have been sold out consistently and ownership wouldn’t be looking to sell.”

That’s because in Atlanta, people have choices for their sports/entertainment dollar. In the fall, a mismanaged hockey team is competing with several well run college football and a very well run NFL team. In the fall, if the hockey team is terrible, it’s easy to start thinking about the braves. And let’s face it, the last five games for the thrashers were terrible (with the exception of the NYR game).

• Link
• Report this comment

Jets Fan, for accounting purposes the Thrashers have no control over the concessions/parking either. That goes in the books under Philips Arena. Yes, they are owned by the same group. That is why we call foul when ASG says they have lost $20M/year. That is most likely a paper loss only, although the books have never been opened to show this conclusively.

• Link
• Report this comment

Charlie “charie”–Winnipeg sounds like a great place…great about your unemployment rate and great about your housing market…what about your literacy rates…you misspelled your own name…

you can keep winnipeg…you dont deserve our thrashers

• Link
• Report this comment

I understand the vitriol to the situation from Atlanta fans, but don’t put that on Canadians with ignorant posts about our country. Also, don’t paint Winnipeg as a dwindling economy when the exact opposite is true. When the world was hit by the major recession, Manitoba was one of the steadiest financial places on the continent and continues to be financially upward. And Mr. Schultz, I can’t agree with making a point about Winnipeg in 1996 and Winnipeg in 2011 when it comes to the economy of the NHL with respect to attendance. It’s specious reasoning at best.

• Link
• Report this comment

Being a Trashers fan has been like racing a go-cart at a Nascar race, then being trash talked for not trying hard enough or staying involved.

If the owners cared about the product.. then maybe the fans would have dished out their hard earned cash. I just feel sorry to the fans who tried to believe. NHL failed Atlanta.. not the other way around. Atlanta never got a chance to try. Starting with Dan Heatly.

• Link
• Report this comment

The problem is that Winnipeg, a city of 725,000 WILL outdraw Atlanta with 5 million. Winnipeg will care about the team like an American team embraces football or baseball. Winnpieg had a poor, outdated building in 1996 and the exchange rate was -40%. No business could survive that. Now it has a new building which is amonsgt the most busiest in North America ensuring non hockey related profit to flow, private boxes the old building did not have, and the Canadian Dollar is worth more than the US. So yes, a smaller city will make it work because the infrastructure is in place, the finances are in place and an owner who is worth BILLIONS of dollars running one of the largest companies in North America – Atlanta had none of this for hockey.

• Link
• Report this comment

Does he really think anyone buys his crap about it being the fans fault for not showing up at the game.
Bettman we did not just jump on the Thrashers Band Wagon. We are the fans. We stuck by the team before, during and after the Atlanta Spirit started selling off the players to reduce their financial obligations. It is there fault for ending up in court. The fans had nothing to do with that. It is the owners you should be blaming.

Don’t blame the fans for the owners being tied up in a court battle for the past 3 years. Don’t blame the fans because you are looking to make money off Atlanta to fund your poor decision to fund the Coyotes for the next year.

If you and your Owners protected your investment or as you put it your “Financial Vehicle”, you would be able to find a buyer for the team, because of the loyal thousands of fans in Atlanta. In the end it is not the fans who need to take care of the team it is the owners. Did you ask the fans who you should trade?Even when we blogged,sent email and posted on line about the poor choices the A.S was making in the trades you turned a deaf ear. If you did listen we would definitely still have Kovy, Armstrong, Hedberg, Exelby, Lehtonen, to name a few.Atlanta Spirit did it to save money until they could DUMP the team. That is what you are doing to the team and to the fans.

Stop pointing fingers. Show you have at least a little bit of common sense and admit that you are doing this for the financial benefit of the NHL and the Atlanta Spirit and you don’t give a S**T about the fans. Wake you NHL fans in the end you are not a fan you are a source of money for a poorly run organization, you are one sale away from your team leaving too!

• Link
• Report this comment

ATL Observer: never did proclaim myself an expert on Atlanta. Just stating an opinion. I can do that can’t I? No offense intended. I spent a couple of weeks in Atlanta a couple of years ago and enjoyed myself thoroughly. No intent to insult. I just don’t think that a city of 5 million plus should have anything less than a sell-out every night. I hope that Winnipeg sells out every night as well and as we all know, there is only about 750,000 people there. It is the percentaqe of hockey fans that makes the difference. Another thing I have seen mentioned. Location. If the arena is built in a less than desirable location(Phoenix Coyotes is perfect example), then it does make it hard for people to get to on a regular basis. Anyway, no offense intended. I just want hockey back in my hometown, that’s all.

• Link
• Report this comment

Nobody really hates Winnipeg; they hate that the Thrashers are apparently moving to Winnipeg, and the fact that Canadians (and Yankos) are gloating about it. The Thrashers were doomed from Day One, when they passed over Ron Hextall for Damian Rhodes. They could have had a solid goalie who could also mentor the younger guys and get them ready to replace him when he retired. Instead, they got a guy who’d get hurt just waking up in the morning, and four guys named Scott (how’d that happen?) tending goal in the NHL, with only ECHL experience, if that. Their “great white hopes” all bombed big time, and the ownership let it happen, thanks to a GM who either was incompetent, was constrained to a certain budget, or both. They also raised the ire of the fans by allowing the fan favorites to get away as free agents, or trading them for practically nothing. It sucks when any team moves or folds, and I was sorry for Oakland, KC, Denver, Cleveland, Quebec, Winnipeg, Hartford, Minnesota (Minn.-St. Paul), et al, when they lost their teams. Call it an excuse if you want to, but that’s the facts, Jack.

• Link
• Report this comment

Can I ask a question?

Why is all there this Canadian bashing going on? I find it disrepectful and in some sense repulsive.

I don’t live in Winnipeg, but I do live in Calgary, home of your old Flames…remember them your first NHL hockey team.

I wonder why this is happening? Please listen to me…I am not a fan of the Thrashers going to Winnipeg, because I don’t believe that it is the most viable option for them. There is a whole lot of other options…Houston, Seattle (Tacoma), and Kansas City, but why have they not come forward as of yet?

Regretfully Winnipeg in their myopic mind is only thinking of a hockey team that allows them to continue living in the past. I am sure that many of you have not been to Winnipeg, and as far I have been reading here how much you bad mouth it….it actually is a wonderful city and it is just gorgeous in the summer….but STAY out of it in the winter….it’s not pretty at all….just very very cold.

I have become quite upset watching reports and seeing pictures of Winnipeg Jets flags getting burned…and constant rants about Canada this…and Canada that. If that make you feel better …so be it.

If you really wish to berate someone…talk to Mr. Bettman, providing you can find him, or even have any contact information for him. This is a man who had bend overbackwards to save Phoenix….but has NOT said a word about Atlanta. Think about it, he hasn’t said or done a thing to save your franchise….PS…neither has your owners.

Next time you wish to bad mouth Winnipeg, or Canada in general….remember when you hosted the Toronto Blue Jays in a playoff game…you flew our wonderful and proud Canadian flag upside down. Perhaps that was just a premonition about the general population not knowing anything about Canada.

I worked for Home Depot for many years and I have visited Atlanta on many occasions, each time staying in Vinnings. I love your city and respect your way of life, please allow yourself to do that to us.

• Link
• Report this comment

Jeff,
Jeff,
Great work as always. As an Atlanta resident since the mid 70’s I would like to compare the two franchise losses. The Flames had good attendance with management that had a clue. Cliff Fletcher & David Poile were the architects of the franchise. They knew the market. They built a tough, talented team that went toe to toe with the likes of Philly & Boston. No team looked forward to playing at The Omni. Win or lose, they knew they were in for a battle.They made the playoffs 6 of 8
years but never had post season success. Some of that was due to best of three series. Fans
actually went to the airport to welcome the team home after huge wins. There was a
bonding/connection with the team & the city. The owner, Tom Cousins has received a bad rep on these message boards. He is one of the classiest men to ever to live in Atlanta. He actually tried to find a local buyer(Ted Turner turned down an offer as well as Coke, Delta & other local corporations. The team was sold due to a terrible real estate market where Cousins made his living. It broke his heart to sell the team. As for the Thrashers, mistakes were made from day one. First mistake was building Philips downtown instead of at 400 & Abernathy. There was a verbal contract on a parcel of land at that intersection but Turner wanted the arena downtown & Kasten rolled over and agreed to build it downtown. Kasten preferred the 400/Abernathy location. Now on to the esteemef Dr. Harvey Schiller, the man responsible for the hiring of Don Waddell. Plenty of candidates were available including Brian Burke, Cliff Fletcher & Pat Quinn to name a few. All three understood the market. In fact during Burke’s interview he laid out his blueprint. Start off as the toughest team in the league with a roster dominated by North Americans and continually draft talented players with the plan to compete by year 5(sounds like someone else but this plan would actually work) but never lose the team’s toughness. It would remmain the team’s identity. Instead, our GM built the team around Damien Rhodes, Patrick Stefan, Uwe Krupp, etc… with no identity still to date. I do like the work of Dudley & Ramsey but unfortunately Winnepeg will enjoy their work. As for ownership, it’s been poor from day one but the ASG really takes the cake. Levenson deserves most of the blame since he is “the hockey guy” of the ownership. His treatment of the fans, media, loyalty to Waddell has doomed the franchise. If Waddell was fired years ago, this franchise would not be moving due to the fact the team would be a competitive playoff team with more fan support and better attendance which would create more revenue for the owners. It’s a shame because the fat lady just grabbed the microphone.

• Link
• Report this comment

The next owner that invests money to make the franchise competitive will be the first.

Hope it happens for the Winnipeg hockey fans, because it never happened here.

Rock bottom payroll – literally thanks for nothing ASG, and gary Bettman, I hope you lose your shirt in Arizona.

• Link
• Report this comment

WELL SAID!!!!!!!!

• Link
• Report this comment

I say the fine people of Atlanta destroy ASG financially.

I propose that people quit attending Hawks games as well as any other events held at Philips Arena. Since the Hawks are tied to Philips until the bonds are paid off, this will force ASG to either eat the losses of sell the team and arena rights to a local buyer since the Hawks and Philips can’t be relocated.

If ASG wants losses, I say we give them losses!

• Link
• Report this comment

So why is it that in 1995, when Ted Turner was seriously kicking the tires on the Winnipeg Jets and looking at buying the team and bringing it to Atlanta, everybody in Atlanta was O.K. with that. Yet now in 2011, when TNSE was kicking the tires on the Atlanta Thrashers to bring them to Winnipeg, everyone is in an uproar?

The bottom line is that the average hockey fan has no say in any of this. 1995 nobody wants to own a team in Winnipeg. 2011 nobody wants to own a team in Atlanta. Now of course when I say “nobody” thats true, but there are valid reasons why nobody was buying in either cities case, but lets skip the details.

This is a transaction that was started years ago and was given the approval of the NHL Board of Governors. Today we are seeing the end of that transaction. The fans are the last people the NHL cares about.

• Link
• Report this comment

The NHL’s business model: take a franchise from an emerging market with 5.3M people and move it to a city of 725k with a dwindling economic presence who couldn’t hold onto a franchise a few years ago. And you wonder why the NHL is the least profitable of the big 4 sports.

the person who posted this is a moron, Winnipeg only lost the team because of Canadian dollar, Atlanta’s games werent selling out, they lost the team there fault. Winnipeg will be able sell out almost all off the games in comparison and not lose money.

thrasher fans r retards, why would any1 want to buy this team in keep it in Atlanta to lose money, its easy to talk the talk when its not ur millions ur losing.

• Link
• Report this comment

Edmonton is the NHL-market the most similar to Winnipeg: Western Canada, city with no other major sports, smallest city to have an NHL team. Oilers are the last one in the two last year but still have sold out at every game! This is a real hockey market.

• Link
• Report this comment

Typed in “Atlanta Thrashers” into a Google search to find out who they were and it said

Did you mean: Winnipeg Jets

• Link
• Report this comment

I understand the vitriol to the situation from Atlanta fans, but don’t put that on Canadians with ignorant posts about our country. Also, don’t paint Winnipeg as a dwindling economy when the exact opposite is true.

Just FYI, Canadians for Reality. I do believe that you could stand a dose of reality, so here goes. Absolutely no one – I repeat – no one on this entire planet, outside of the people of Winnipeg, gives a damn about Winnipeg in any way, shape or form. They never have and they never will. Get over it.

• Link
• Report this comment

Jeff, excellent blog. I’m not a hockey fan by any stretch. However, being a Hawks fan, I know what the ASG has put fans of both teams through. To the Canadian visitors to this blog, I understand your enthusiasm in terms of getting the team. However, lets be clear; the ASG is the reason the Thrashers are gone. Don Waddell would have been ran out of any other market. However, the cheap ASG didn’t want to spend money on a good GM. They allowed the Joe Johnson fiasco to cripple both teams. The Belkin saga kept both teams from making moves bigger than the Speedy Claxton types.

Economics 101…you don’t invest in a product that shows no return.

Fans would be nutty to patronize this bunch. So to those in the great up north…if you want to lay blame on someone, their names are Gearon, Levenson, Petskowitz, and Belkin (for most of the time. Thank you Jeff for telling the truth on behalf of our great city.

• Link
• Report this comment

Yes Reality, and in 10 years everyone in Winnipeg will be pissed off about losing their second hockey team.

• Link
• Report this comment

Florida jacket “Yes Reality, and in 10 years everyone in Winnipeg will be pissed off about losing their second hockey team.”

Thats OK. Its still 10 more years of NHL hockey than they have now. In reality, the fans had nothing to do with the Jets leaving the first time. And you are absolutely correct, if the Jets come back and we lose them again, then its just not meant to be…. Just like Atlanta.

• Link
• Report this comment

While I agree with much of the article and how Bettman has not helped the city. Couple of points I’d like to make, i’m new to the area and came from an area (S. FLA) that also gets denigrated by the Canadian press. First, after doing some reading on the Thrasher ownership, I’m shocked they were even approved for a team, considering they wanted to get rid of them litterally after 1 year, it tells me Bettman and the NHL did an absolutely horrible job in guarding Atlanta’s interests, this led to the mess the Spirit created but no doubt Bettman and the NHL share the blame for that. In hindsight the Spirit should never have been approved for a team.
In regard to your point about winning leading to more fans showing up, absolutely true especially in these economic times. However, I do have one problem, I find it hard to believe that if the Falcons or the Braves were on the verge of moving, that only 250 would attend a rally to show support for keep them in town. I find it hard to believe that the local medial would not be banging the drum calling for new ownership or calling out the leagues and there leadership. The Thrashers however get barely a mention and while I believe there is a strong core group of Thrasher fans, I was suprised more didn’t show up to suppor them.
In the end Bettman and the NHL just want to walk away from this mistake in there minds they see an area where no local ownership has stepped up, local city and business support has been lacking and lastly while locals no better, they see a fan base that only shows up in the 100’s to fight for there team.

• Link
• Report this comment

@Cromwell – lol – Sure they do, buddy. They care deeply about that $60 million relocation fee. But I’m very certain that they care sooooo much more about the city of Winnipeg. If not, then I guess you can just feel lucky that $60 million can buy you a lot of concern these days.

• Link
• Report this comment

On the contrary, Winnipeckers, we’re glad you’ll have the option to show how pathtic you are by paying good loonies (are you serious???) to see a crap team because its the only thing in town.

• Link
• Report this comment

I don’t think I’m making my point very well so I will try one more time. The NHL has 30 teams, with no teams in Baltimore, Houston, Seattle, Denver, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Kansas City or San Diego. Teams in Phoenix, Tampa, Miami, North Carolina, New York, Tennessee, Ohio and California are in varying degrees of financial trouble. With this as a background the NHL is preparing to move a team from one city to another city that is less than 20% it’s size. The difference is actually larger than this because around Atlanta you have Chattanooga, Birmingham and half a dozen other metropolitan areas that each individually is larger than Winnipeg. What this says about the NHL is larger than one team or two cities. What we are seeing may be the death throes of the National Hockey League.

• Link
• Report this comment

Has anybody been writing to David McDavid now that he should have his $281 Million settlement from Time Warner over the breach of contract when Spirit bought all the properties? Who could be better to save the Thrashers now that Spirit wants to sell it all? He might even be able to buy at less than the cost in 2003 when you figure in his lawsuit winnings!

Let McDavid know the fans will support him if he buys the Thrash, Hawks and Philips Arena and gets them away from Spirit! Spread the word and email, write and call David McDavid today!!!! It’s late in the game but he’s from Dallas: The Mavs’ cause looked hopeless in OKC Monday night, but they still pulled out a win in overtime!

http://www.mcdavidcompanies.com/contact.php

Mr David McDavid
Chairman/CEO
McDavid Companies
17120 N. Dallas Parkway Suite 235
Dallas, TX 75248

T. 972.716.0300
F. 972.250.1715

• Link
• Report this comment

displaced ACCOUNTABILITY.

Betteman is wrongly holding the ATL fans accountable when he should be pointing at the Atlanta Spirit.

The reason: He wants 60 Million dollars and knows the fans can’t sue him.

• Link
• Report this comment

Look, we get that ASG’s stewardship of the team was poor. As Bettman said, it is your absolute right to not buy tickets because you are unhappy with the team. He is also correct in saying that poor attendence may make the franchise look unattractive to potential buyers.

If I was a buyer, I might think, “Well, if I turn this franchise into a winner, I might win back some fans, but what happens if they start losing for a couple of seasons? Will they be fickle again and not show up?”

You may feel justified for not buying tickets, but the result is that the team becomes less valuable to potential buyers.

Florida is a big place. The fact that no local owmership group has stepped up is quite amazing. You say ASG wanted to cash out within a year of buying this team, so it wasn’t secret knowledge that just turned up 5 months ago. You didn’t need Lil Jon to spread awareness on that.

Bottom line is that you take a big risk when you don’t support your team, whether justified or not.

Whether Winnipeg is a poor market or not is irrelevant. Winnipeg has a buyer, Atlanta has a seller (and no buyers). Game over.

• Link
• Report this comment

Please, tell me that Bettman didn’t have this planned out from the get-go. Does anyone else think that it is more than a little suspicious that the Manitoba Moose have been reported that they will be moving to St. John’s? Keep in mind, St. John’s is right near Conception Bay South, the same place that just happened to win the Kraft Hockeyville 2011 – a preseason game between the Atlanta Thrashers and Ottawa Senators!!!!!!

• Link
• Report this comment

THIS SPORT WAS GOING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION IN THE 1990′S IN THE US. THIS MOVE SETS IT BACK MANY YEARS… TRY ME AGAIN NHL WHEN YOU ARE SERIOUS ABOUT THE MAKING THIS GAME A NATIONAL SPORT AGAIN…. DISSAPPOINTED IN BOSTON

• Link
• Report this comment

You left out the part where the Braves couldn’t sell out playoff games. I’m sure it was just an oversight, because you’d never intentionally leave out something so damning about Atlanta’s sports “fans”.

• Link
• Report this comment

Mr Schultz, what would you have Mr Bettman do? He is paid (very well) by his employers to generate value. There are no local buyers, so the local value of the team is very nearly zero. The value of the team in Winnipeg is $170M. I would argue that ASG gets zero and the NHL gets $170M in relocation fees. Mr Bettman is already dealing with one team dropped into bankruptcy, and that would seem the next logical step for ASG if the team didn’t sell. Yes, ASG is probably not suffering as much as they claim, but in bankruptcy they could flip the team for $100M+. They are watching Phoenix and learning. Mr Bettman could not buy another team, so he needed to control the flip. He’s holding his nose on this, but what else could he do? Good for Winnipeg for being at the right place at the right time. Bad for Atlanta for becoming a victim of business. And that’s all it is, business. Oh, one more thing, the NHL is making money. Oodles of it. Record amounts. Check the press releases.

• Link
• Report this comment

Sorry. I didn’t read all the comments. What I failed to see is, who cares? I wish Winnipeg and the thrashers well but please, who in the U.S. considers the NHL a national league? It has failed to win a significant presence on U.S. TV. It is on the verge of most teams going under. And, their central office approved ASG with an unclear ownership agreement to buy the team and keep it in the courts for months. I spend my money on minor league baseball before spending it on minor league hockey.

The Thrashers’ sale and moving is a symptom but the NHL doesn’t have a cure. Certainly NHL leadership is either blind or dumb, or both. I still believe the ASG should sue the NHL over the relocation fee and any other impediment the NHL tries to apply to the sale and move. Winnipeg has an owner that wants to make a go of it, and he has the money. Does the NHL have any other requirements?

• Link
• Report this comment

WOOOO The jets are coming back! And yet again Canadians owe a dept of gratitude to Americans for just not getting the game, you guys still do the lines or whatever to point where the puck is?
Also Canadians love hockey and americans as a vast majority just dont get a physical game with more than 2 players.

• Link
• Report this comment

How about the fact that in Winnipegs last year all the tickets were sold, and yeah Winnipeg had a team that had a poor record as well. How about the fact that Winnipegs save the Jets rally crammed 6000-7000 people into Portage and Main, heck a spontanious crowd of 400-500 showed up on a Thursday night on the rumor the Jets were coming back. Yet Atlanta’s organized rally for the Thrashers can only get 200-300 on a Saturday? Lets face it there are die hard fans in Atlanta who I feel sorry for, and I can’t stand Bettman because he rips teams awy from some places yet pays to keep them in others ($17 million to bail out Pheonix last year). Add the fact that Canada represents 30% of NHL viewership with only 6 teams, that’s 5% for every city in Canada that has a team.

• Link
• Report this comment

Hey , we have aNHL teams in Atlanta?? If I would have known that i would have went to a few games.

• Link
• Report this comment

Let’s face reality, not all but the vast majority of Canadians posting here are complete idiots and total douche bags.

• Link
• Report this comment

Kasim Reed is a joke!

If the facts are correct, the Thrashers bring in somewhere between $30 & $40 million dollars in revenue for the city of Atlanta each year. If the mayor thought like a business man instead of a politician, the city could offer a $20 million dollar bond (covering one year of the shorfall / losses) that would keep the Thrashers here one more year. This would give a reasonable time to find an owner ( not 4 weeks). This gives the fans a chance to show up to the games. The $20 million dollar bond would cost the taxpayer less in taxes than the shortfall of the 30 to 40 million dollars the city is no receiving. Thus the taxpayers are actually better off.

I know many will assume it’s not true but if that is your position, you don’t understand finance. Do the math.

You can’t sale a house in a month but you can sell a 110 million dollar NHL franchise in 10 days.

Bettman is pathetic…he is putting a short term fix…MONEY…. ahead of integrity and what is best for the long term success of the sport. Must be the new NHL.

In closing, I’m not saying Winnipeg shouldn’t get a franchise….Just let them pay the 90 million dollars for the franchise fee and everyone is happy.

I can’t wait till the Falcon’s leave the city. Wish they could take the Braves with them.

• Link
• Report this comment

I do feel your pain about the potential of losing your team. I am Canadian and have worked/spent considerable time in the United States and have a different perspective about sports in the states. The USA has three seasons: Football, Basketball and Baseball. Hockey is cold winter sport and is also very expensive to play and thus is a difficult sell in the sunbelt.

I believe thrasher failed due to their ownership issue and product on the ice. I think Bettman is trying to save face by selling the team and taking $60 million to offset the losses from Phoenix. I am more surprised that Bettman has not done more for the Atlanta franchise, because at least they have people going to games unlike phoenix. However, Bettman does things on his term and that is why NHL is where it is with its development.

• Link
• Report this comment

I understand how all you feel in Atlanta, i dont blame the fans at all, and i don’t really blame GB either. YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT THE BIG PICTURE….you have an NHL team that you love, and support as fans BUT and here it is……YOU have ASG. that dont give a rats A$$ for your team and that it, thats all. if you own a piece of %$#& car you sell it (right) even if your friends like it.(fans) that must suck. was there 15 years ago when the Jets left….it was not the fans is was the owners aswell, losing all there money due to the CND dollar at .65 cents and paying out salaries in US dollars, thats what killed it here…not the Winnipeg fans……THAT IS WHY I FEEL FOR YOU GUYS. so with that said, i’m thankful for TNSE for who they are and the WEALTH they have, they are proven leaders both on and off the (ice) and will do what it take to market the team in Winnipeg for success. (something that most or all current owner should pay attention to) or they will be in the same boat in years to come… Remember its truly not the fans why you lose your team (always the OWNERS and there love for the sport aswell as there MARKETING team)

• Link
• Report this comment

The cowardly ASG had the audacity to name their silly group the ATLANTA spirit and stab the city in the back.

• Link
• Report this comment

Wow, this Bettman fellow sounds a lot like UGA’s Michael Adams.

• Link
• Report this comment

Hawks fans, pay attention.

This is your future.

• Link
• Report this comment

Mexico City has 6 times as many people as Atlanta, by your logic, that would be a better place for a hockey team than Atlanta by virtue of its population. Combine that with everyone else quoting ‘attendance’ as better in Atlanta that the Jets’ last season and you have two great examples of ’statistics’ erroneously being used to justify a position.

With a crap team like the Thrashers in Winnipeg next year they will have more hockey fans than Atlanta would even if Atlanta made the playoffs ten years in a row. Fans willing to PAY is the most relevant factor. Of the 13,500 people willing to go to a Thrashers game, how many of them paid? And of those that paid, how many got a free ticket with a ticket or free parking or free hot dogs or a free frigging massage?

13,500 seats sold in Winnipeg will always bring in substantially more revenue than 13,500 seats sold in Atlanta. Especially with the 5% bonus of the Canadian dollar being worth more than the USD.

Numbers don’t lie. And the numbers are in favour of the team playing in Winnipeg.

• Link
• Report this comment

Let’s clear the air a little on the tail-wake Thrashers fans had last Saturday. The Thrashers fans did not “burn a Jets flag”. They burned a half-hearted shoe polish sign that was cobbled together by a small group of cowards that hung it from the top of the parking deck, yelled insults and curses, and then ran. What do you expect would happen? If the same thing happened in Winnipeg during the 35,000 strong death march there would have been a full on riot.

If you don’t know the facts, don’t speak on the event.

I guess in the end those morons with their shoe polish got what they wanted. Instead of actually looking at the picture the trolls lob in and say we were burning Jets flags. Not the case. No Thrashers fan brought Jets gear the to the tail wake for the sole purpose of destroying it.

Those are cold hard facts, just like these:

The Jets fans enjoyed some of the lowest ticket prices in the NHL. Still they could not sell out the venue every night like the Leafs fans do now. I should note that Leafs fans are paying ~2X the league average, and are cheering constant losers… also unlike Winnipeg.

The average ticket price for the Thrashers has been in line with the rest of the league, and at times *above* the league average. During these times, you guessed it, we out drew the Jets. But we had a bigger building! True, but the Jets didn’t sell out while their fans were paying less for their seats. There was room for improvement on both sides. Those cheap seats and the weak Canadian dollar doomed the Jets franchise in the 90s.

The Canadian dollar is booming (relatively speaking) *right now*. It won’t last. Just look at history. The Canadian dollar has past the US dollar briefly in the past, only to be followed by years and years of being between 20% and 30% lower in value. Also note the only time the Canadian dollar climbs is when the US stumbles. We are getting our feet back.

Be afraid, Winnipeg, be very afraid. Once the markets right themselves, and reality sinks in, you will be paying ~23% more than Tampa Bay for the same caliber players. Couple that with the insane ticket prices that are being thrown out there (are you guys *seriously* going to sustain a ticket price that is second or third highest in the league – and even then gate revenue will only fund up to the cap *floor* considering your limited arena?) and the recipe for failure just gets clearer and clearer.

Don’t get me wrong… I don’t want hockey to fail anywhere. It needs to grow. I can’t think of a sport that has the intensity and the speed that hockey offers. You can’t look away because you are always ½ second away from the next huge goal, miracle save, or punishing hit. Nothing else compares. So… good luck, Winnipeg. You are going to need a lot more than a minority billionaire backer sooner than you think. Let’s hope you don’t fall victim to bad decision making by the NHL the same way we have.

But let’s be honest… unless you all buy a new sweater every 5th home game and drink enough beer to sink a battle ship, the money just isn’t there. And if you do have a walk in closet full of Manitoba (insert name here) sweaters and a dialysis machine next to your commemorative beer cups, the best you can do is hope to break even. The league got a lot bigger and a heck of a lot more expensive in the years that have past since 1996.

• Link
• Report this comment

Billsen,

I am 100% american and even I realized long ago that ASG and their puppet Waddell never could grasp the fact that a hockey rink has two ends to it. When it came to personnel, they focused nearly all of their efforts on the offensive end.

The same is true with UGA and their football coaches. Most of their personnel focus was on the “skill positions” and very little was on the line.

Their time too is nearing the end.

• Link
• Report this comment

@florida jacket where have you been for the last 50 years? Professional sports is about television markets Winnipeg can sell 40,000 tickets a night and it won’t make $.10 worth of difference, why, because the next television contract won’t pay the NHL enough to buy a good handkerchief, why, because by that time they will of lost half of the top 10 markets in the United States. And yes Mexico City has six times as many people as Atlanta, and the people in Atlanta have six times as much money as all of the people in Mexico City. The next time you want to talk about something that you don’t know anything about do it somewhere else.

• Link
• Report this comment

A question about the Waddell bashing… When I look at the Thrashers roster, I see a very young team that has a lot of potential if you add a few more parts to the mix. Looks like a very good core to build off of for the years to come.

• Link
• Report this comment

Correction – We *had* a good young core. Thank you again, ASG…

• Link
• Report this comment

To be honest, the citizens of winnipeg are no fans of Mr. Bettman either going way back to how the situation with the Jets was handled. Mr. Bettman has never been an avid supporter of hockey in Canada. Regardless of market size, I think the NHL has grown too big, too costly for most cities.

• Link
• Report this comment

“And yes Mexico City has six times as many people as Atlanta, and the people in Atlanta have six times as much money as all of the people in Mexico City. The next time you want to talk about something that you don’t know anything about do it somewhere else”

People of Atlanta have six times as much money as the people of Mexico City? And I’m the one who doesn’t know what I’m talking about? Good one. This from a guy who probably can’t find Mexico on a map. Go study some economics and get back to me.

• Link
• Report this comment

If the game had gotten more expensive, there would not be a team moving back to Winnipeg. In current dollars, the league is more affordable now than it was in 96. Salary cap and a Canadian dollar worth 1.05 make the above true.

Your delusion that the Canadian dollar will drift back down to the .77 cent level or lower is naive. ( Even if it did, the Jets would still succeed in Winnipeg ) China has surpassed the US on so many levels and with India and other emerging markets swamping your exports ( do you even have any exports anymore? ), the likelihood is that the Cdn and US governments will manipulate the currency to keep it between .90 and 1.10 – if they can. We would only dip down to the sub .80 level if the US had some kind of power over us, which they don’t anymore ( except for the obvious, if they point a missile at us) .

We may have a small population but we’ve got more natural resources than anybody and at least as much oil as the Middle East -resources in demand by emerging markets which provide us with a very stable economy and thereby a stable dollar; the only economy in the G8 that didn’t tank during the last economic crisis ( caused by the US of course )

It isn’t that our billionaire owner has lots of money he’s willing to lose because he has so much, its that he’s a savvy businessman that has the might and the pedigree to get this deal done – and make a small profit to boot.

Your ignorance precludes me from negating anymore of your ridiculous arguments. Go Jets.

• Link
• Report this comment

Great piece Jeff. There is no doubt that this is an opportunity for Bettman to save face and recoup some of the losses the owners have incurred while propping up the Phoenix franchise. He hasn’t even made a trip to Atlanta to meet with the Mayor or other city officials. He has been criticized for years by the Canadian markets and media for trying to “Americanize” the league and now he is placating those critics.

• Link
• Report this comment

Listen tools, you can cut me down all you want. I get paid 7 million dollars a year to be a bullhorn by 30 owners in the league. ( okay, 29, Mayor Sruggs doesn’t own the Coyotes, the league does – oh, and there’s those Spirit guys – okay, lets call it 28 owners )

Don’t kill the messenger. I am carried everywhere I go by the owners of every franchise in the league who pay me very well to say what they want me to say.

Go Jets Go.

• Link
• Report this comment

Atlanta Mayor Kasim Reed stated
” I think anytime we lose a major sports franchise it is tough. It’s going to hurt the city, but we are going to withstand it just fine. … We have a lot of positive things going on in the sports-franchise space that I think we will be announcing pretty soon to offset it a bit.”

As if we didn’t know the College Football Hall of Fame is slated to move to Atlanta from South Bend, Indiana in the spring of 2013.

This was happening anyway Kasim, wake up, pretend to be intelligent and quit the spin.

• Link
• Report this comment

@ukyo: No doubt Canada has some great hockey fans but outside of that…stop patting yourself on the back. When the US wants a Canadian opinion we’ll give it to you.

• Link
• Report this comment

Has the Globe and Mail hack explained how the deal was done and going to be announced on/by Tuesday. Well, we have an hour to go so I look forward to the official announcement. Sounds to me like the hack just sprayed his shorts.

• Link
• Report this comment

I have a story for you. The Toronto Maple Leafs have missed the playoffs for the past six years but have sold out the ACC since 2002. Maple Leaf Gardens was sold out from 1946 until it closed in 1999. Want season tickets? Sign up on the years long waiting list. Do you think this team will be moving soon?

I have another story. Since the lockout every Canadian NHL team has sold out every game except for Ottawa. Edmonton is rebuilding and a perennial cellar dweller. Calgary has struggled to make the playoffs. Yet the buildings are full.

Arguing that “well, we were just waiting for the team to be good” is pathetic. If you don’t go to games, don’t be surprised when the team can’t pay the bills.

Moving to a city of 600,000 diehard hockey fans simply makes more sense than a city of 5 million with 20,000 fair-weather fans who wouldn’t support the team through hard times. Minnesota hasn’t always had the greatest team since they got the Wild back, yet they have sold out every game since. They learned their lesson. Atlanta did not.

And don’t hate on Canada, Winnipeg is simply the best option available at the moment.

It’s sad for the diehard Thrashers fans that do exist, but the fans that stayed at home share some of the blame in losing this team.

• Link
• Report this comment

Bettman is lucky the AJC doesn’t sue the National Hockey League for fraud.

• Link
• Report this comment

Atlanta has hockey team? Sweet, when does season start?

• Link
• Report this comment

Atlanta has hockey team? Sweet, when does season start?

• Link
• Report this comment

Hey AYF, you are upset with folks insulting winnipeg? Then your very next lline insults folks in the south…..think about it Einstein

• Link
• Report this comment

Florida Jacket……”The NHL has 30 teams, with no teams in Baltimore, Houston, Seattle, Denver, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Kansas City or San Diego.”

Remind us again where the Avalanche play out of????????

• Link
• Report this comment

If Winnipeg is such a wonderful destination, why did the Hurricanes not move there eleven years ago? Why hasn’t Phoenix relocated there? Why hasn’t Nashville?

The truth is that Atlanta fans haven’t been given a good team to support. When it has been good, it’s gotten support. That would be a clue on Scooby Doo, but apparently it is over the heads of the Thrashers ownership group. Bring in a real GM, give him time to build a great farm system in the draft and make smart trades and free agent acquisitions. That’s how you win on a regular basis, that’s how you build a fanbase and that’s how you entrench a new team in a new market. But…again…that’s news to Atlanta’s owners.

Atlanta needs a Lou Lamarillo to come in and take the team over and rebuild it from scratch. It won’t be quick, and it won’t be easy but it can be done. If Tampa and Carolina can win Cups, so can Atlanta. The difference is ownership, management and coaching. It sure as heck ain’t the fans down there.

Then there’s this richness: “its cold up here, sure, but thats why we play hockey. If it was just as cold down there and hot up here then you’d win all the olympic gold medals in hockey and we’d win them all in basketball. so just give it a rest already”

How many times has Lord Stanley’s Cup been lifted in Canada since 1993?

Zero.

And your vaunted Edmonton Oilers were defeated by the Southeast’s Carolina Hurricanes in 2006.

The next year, the legendary hockey market of Anaheim dispatched the Sens in a series over before it began.

Oddly, the Hurricanes play in an area where the national championship for college basketball is often won…they sit about 15 minutes from Duke and UNC. And draw fairly well besides.

And the Ducks? Well, their competition are the Lakers.

But as for Canada, once Boston or Tampa dispatches Vancouver, it can spend another summer telling the world how it is the home of hockey and how it deserves to have all of the NHL’s teams.

• Link
• Report this comment

Steve, you are right, there is not much to do in Canada so it’s a good move I agree
Bye bye thrashers, too many other fun things to do in georgia hockey is not one of them ….I will say ….all the transfers to Atlanta are who attend games, moat are not Ga products:)

• Link
• Report this comment

Hey….
You folks hard on Ga fans and Atlanta, feel free to go back where you came from, delta is always ready!!!

• Link
• Report this comment

AYF from Phoenix via Montreal: Why have I read on more than one post from our Canadian posters how Atlanta is a crime ridden city only known for shootings and crime. One guy suggest we all wore bullet proof vest. My guess he has never been to Atlanta. Or maybe he is not real smart since we have 5 million people in this city, so yes the crime rate is going to be higher than in Winnipeg. If he knew anything about this city he would know how many major companies do business here and how many great universities educate our future leaders. The only thing this city is guilty of is having its government officials not step up and support the hockey team.

• Link
• Report this comment

The Jets never drew well and in Ontario they are already talking about the new Jets moving to Metro Toronto in 7 years, since the deal only requires the Jets to stay in Winnipeg for 7 years. So this is Bettman’s way of getting another team in Toronto, which is what he has wanted the whole time.

• Link
• Report this comment

Glovesave29, such a great post at 9:49.

DW’s 15 yr plan, excellent post at 6:50.

I’ll just say it. It’s not possible to defend the indefensible. Retaining a GM without a playoff win in a decade … screams apathy. It’s not even incompetence at that point; it’s just utter disdain. It’s so, so clear that this ownership never WANTED to own this team, and tried, secretly, to sell it for YEARS. Doesn’t that inspire confidence?

I am very sincere when I say … “Thank God Winnipeg will not have to deal with that.” When you, as a fan, realize … that everything starts with ownership, and that ownership doesn’t care, it leaves you to ponder, “then why should I care?” For the better part of a decade, the Atlanta Thrashers served as schedule fodder for the rest of the league. They didn’t and couldn’t develop talent, but was Dan Marr, Head of Scouting, ever fired? No! He’s STILLLLL here. Without a 3rd through 5th round selection to show for it, in all that time. He has one (1) second rounder (Ondrej Pavelec). That’s pathetic. For more than a decade’s work, even if Don Waddell is the one that pulls the trigger.

It’s beyond incompetence. It’s all quite deliberate. This was a systematic dismantling of an unwanted NHL franchise. But unlike in other markets, the Commissioner’s office made no attempt to step in and bail it out, install new ownership, or run the team. I promise you, had the NHL stepped in, there would have been a rush of season ticket sales.

For that matter, if the Spirit, LLC had just fired Waddell after the 2007 sweep by the NY Rangers, or at any point thereafter, there would have been 200-300 Season Tickets purchased the following morning. With many more to follow during the rest of the week. Having Don Waddell and the Atlanta Spirit, LLC as a tandem … is like trying to fight a war on terrorism with Pakistan as your ally (Copyright 2011, poster R.Stroz, all rights reserved.).

This market never had a chance beyond 2002, when it became crystal clear that ownership (Time/Warner) wanted to ditch the team, and wouldn’t spend to retain any players. Then it sold to the Atlanta Spirit, LLC, who 5 minutes later, began their campaign to try to ditch the NHL franchise they were FORCED to inherit. None of this escaped the hockey-going public, as they watched incomprehensible decisions being made, with regard to the operations of the franchise. We were all left to say, “What in the wide, wide world of sports is a goin’ on here!” This wasn’t about winning and losing. This was about NOT TRYING. And not HIDING that fact.

Let me ask you, “How would this play out in Canada?” The morning paper basically says, “Owners to hockey fans: Up yours! Deal with it! We don’t care what you want or what you think. We’re raising ticket prices. Go buy ‘em.” Hmmn. Interesting marketing strategy. What can you call that other than “antagonistic.” These die-hard hockey fans were thoroughly and systematically driven away. The message received, loud and clear, “Why not set your money on fire?”

It’s moments like that, that George Carlin’s comedy routine surfaces. “Hello consumers. We’re selling a bunch of cheap crap, at extremely high prices, that you don’t want or need. Come on down, and be treated rudely by our poorly-trained staff.” Is there anything more to add, I do wonder. Yes, there is. “Gary Bettman WATCHED it happen. He knew what was going on, including the ire of the hockey fans.” His response? “What can we do, while possession of the team is still in litigation?” A total copout answer. He could have revoked their operating license and assumed control of the team, to save the market. He didn’t. Bygones. The team is gone. But remember this, when Pittsburgh, Buffalo, Tampa Bay, and Phoenix were rescued … they all made the playoffs soon thereafter. Their markets were RESUSITATED. The same would have happened here … if ANYONE in authority ever, ever CARED about making hockey work … in Atlanta, GA.

• Link
• Report this comment

Great column, Jeff. I can’t imagine how a Bozo like Bettman, with so little public relations sense, got into position to be a league commissioner – even if it is just the NHL.

Other pro sports leagues think about their TV contracts before they think about anything else. The last thing any other commissioner would do is insult the entire population of one of the 10 largest television markets in the country while in the process of taking their team away. Even Bud Selig is aware that he needs TV viewers in markets without pro teams. Bettman has no clue that fans in Atlanta could still help increase the NHL’s revenue after the team is gone if they were willing to watch the NHL on TV often enough. The die hard hocky fans who moved here from somewhere else may continue to follow their favorite teams on TV after the Thrashers are gone, but I would rather watch “Dancing With The Stars” reruns than spend a minute of my time supporting the NHL after the way Bettman has handled pending sale of the Thrashers. Maybe incompetent leadership is part of the reason that the NHL trails so far behind all of the other major sports in TV revenue.

The crazy thing is, I don’t have a problem with the ASG selling the team to whoever is willing to give them the most money. I don’t even have a problem with the NHL allowing the team to relocate so they can collect a few million from the sale. The thing I have a problem with is everyone involved lying about the process and blaming the fans in an effort to cover up their own self interest. If the ASG would have said from the beginning that they were planning to sell the Thrashers so they could invest more in the Hawks, I would have understood. If Bettman would have simply said that the tax the league plans to collect for approving the relocation is too good a deal to pass up, I would understand that too. When the league and the owners want to blame me, while they stuff their pockets with cash, I have a problem. Next time the NHL comes looking for fans in Atlanta, I’ll be busy doing something else – even if it means watching “Dancing With The Stars” reruns.

• Link
• Report this comment

Sedin refused to touch the Clarence S. Campbell Bowl. The fans “cheered” because of it. I don’t know, folks. You work all season long to win your Conference … and then you IGNORE the trophy, due to some superstition … that really doesn’t exist. There isn’t evidence to suggest hoisting or touching either the Campbell Bowl or the Prince of Wales Trophy will cause a team to then lose the Finals.

• Link
• Report this comment

Now that the ASG and Gary Bettman have basically told everyone that they really don’t care about the fans in Atlanta, it seems like a great time for True North Sports to reduce their offer by a few million. Working together, the ASG and Bettman have done such a good job of devaluing the franchise in Atlanta that there is almost no going back at this point. What are they going to do if they don’t complete the deal to move the team to Winnipeg? Keep the team in Atlanta and tell everyone, “We were just kidding. Come give us your money.”?

One last thought: Why do fans from Winnipeg feel it necessary to seek out a blog in Atlanta so that they can come on here and insult the Thrashers fans? How does that add to the pleasure of getting a NHL team? Aside from the fact that so many Canadians suddenly showed up on the AJC blog to throw insults at the city of Atlanta, why do fans from Atlanta feel like they need to insult the city of Winnipeg? This whole thing has very little to do with the fans in either city, and a whole lot to do with a bunch of rich guys trying to make a buck as they buy and sell their toys.

• Link
• Report this comment

The same fans who support the Steelers with such enthusiasm got drowned out in PNC Park by Braves fans giving Jair Jurrjens a standing O tonight.

A good product begets a good fan base.

• Link
• Report this comment

By the time the Jets left Winnipeg they had spent almost 10 years without winning a single playoff series. Sound familiar? The Jets always had the misfortune of being in the Smythe Division which had Edmonton, Calgary, LA, and Vancouver. When Edmonton and Calgary no longer were the heavyweights, LA and Vancouver took over. Winnipeg was always like the bastard step child you never talk about. Now that the Jets are going back, they have to pray to the hockey gods that they don’t get put in the Western Conference. The Thrashers’ lineup as it stands today, doesn’t have a prayer of beating any of the top 12 teams in the West. Let’s see if the so-called fan support is there after the Jets have 10 straight losing seasons.

• Link
• Report this comment

Jeff,

You can’t compare the other ATL pro sports teams’ poor attendance seasons to the NHL. The NHL is a gate driven league and teams can’t survive long term without good fan support while paying full price for tickets every single year. The NHL business model sucks hard for fans.

The NHL just signed a ten year tv agreement with NBC Sports that pays them $2 billion. Although, this doesn’t include Canadian tv contracts. The NFL rakes in $3.085 billion per year with their US tv deals. That is roughly $30 billion to the NHL’s $2 Billion over ten years. MLB and the NBA tv contracts kick the shit out of NHL tv money as well.

IMO, the top reasons the Thrashers are relocating to Winnipeg: (most reasons are related)

1) ASG are fools and the NHL BOG are sick of their infighting and poor management.

2) ASG don’t care for hockey and ran the Thrashers into the ground with help from Waddell’s crappy performing teams.

3) Phillips arena is the only suitable NHL hockey facility in ATL at this time and ASG controls it.

4) The NHL is sacrificing an EASTERN conf. team (ATL) for the Phoenix Coyotes to remain in place due to traveling logistics for WESTERN conf. teams. The teams in the West are too far apart and the NHL doesn’t want to lose any teams there. Also refer to related reason #6.

5) The NHL conned Glendale to pay $180m for a new arena for the Coyotes and they won’t be the ones to pull the plug and abandon them for fear they can’t con other city governments in the future.

6) Glendale is bailing out the Coyotes to the tune of $50m over two seasons. If Glendale let the team leave without funding it, the Coyotes would move to Winnipeg and the NHL would put an effort into saving the Thrashers.

7) The NHL will not place another team near Toronto (Southern Ontario) because the Leafs and Sabres refuse to allow this. Winnipeg is a compromise new Canadian team location to lessen the Canadian hockey fans’ hatred for the NHL’s BOG and Gary Bettman.

David Thomson is the 17th richest man on earth and owns part of True North Sports and Entertainment. The NHL likely promised him a Winnipeg based franchise and ATL are being sacrificed to accomplish this task.

9) The NHL has lost and continues to loose boatloads of money operating and trying to sell the Coyotes. A bogus multi-million dollar relocation fee ($60m?) for selling and moving the Thrashers to Winnipeg will pay the NHL’s losses in Glendale, AZ. This bogus fee also artificially inflates NHL franchise values.

These are likely the main reasons why NHL hockey is not going to exist in Atlanta next season. The planets have aligned.

Notice I didn’t list poor attendance as a reason. Weak attendance exists, but the NHL is basically giving up their long term plan to grow the game in Atlanta. They haven’t given up in Nashville, Florida, Phoenix, Carolina or Tampa.

Know this; I’m a former Winnipeg Jets season ticket holder from ‘93-’96 and I want them to come home and Atlanta to keep their team. Unfortunately, that won’t happen.

• Link
• Report this comment

The tip of the iceberg – the most visible hazard (or target) – may be Bettman, but whether you’re a fan, a business person, or a local politician or pundit, I think most of us are aware of the volumes of evidence that prove this story started to be written 5 or 6 years ago.

• Link
• Report this comment

Please, tell me that Bettman didn’t have this planned out from the get-go. Does anyone else think that it is more than a little suspicious that the Manitoba Moose have been reported that they will be moving to St. John’s?

Keep in mind, St. John’s is right near Conception Bay South, the same place that just happened to win the Kraft Hockeyville 2011 – a preseason game between the Atlanta Thrashers and Ottawa Senators!!!!!!

• Link
• Report this comment

[...] says city “will get through it”Vancouver SunBeausejour Review -National Post (blog) -Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog)all 511 news [...]

• Link
• Report this comment

“We come here and defend ourselves. We’re on defence here. Anything negative you see about Atlanta is a retaliation for something stupid said about Winnipeg.”

Award winner for moronic statement of the year. Last time I checked – this is an ATLANTA blog. We are staying off of yours in Manitoba. If you want to sit around and congratulate yourselves, then use the forum the WFP gives you to do so. To sit here on the AJC site and gloat….really?

• Link
• Report this comment

Probably shouldn’t call anybody a coward. Sometimes I get the idea you are afraid of a lot of things. One of them my be hard work before a holiday. ” Let’s pick the home teams and go home”
It may be a good job security move, but you don’t get respect.

• Link
• Report this comment

Thank you, Jeff. Perhaps it’s unseemly to only want to attend a pro sports event, a very expensive proposition, when a team has the appearance of really trying and management that moves Heaven and Earth to get them the tools to win. But perhaps not. That “Atlanta fans won’t support Hockey” crap was hoisted on us with the Flames (a lie) and they’re trying to do it again. I was here for the Flames and here for the Thrashers, and I’ll tell you, no fan wants to lay out big dinero for a team that is going nowhere fast and year after year, isn’t given the tools to be better. No more ownership by committee!

• Link
• Report this comment

bananahead says: ““Dispose of the Thrashers”
“Goal of bringing the Stanley Cup to Atlanta”

Anybody else see a problem with those two ideas existing simultaneously?

This stuff needs to be said over and over again until everyone gets it.

bananhead clearly has more than just bananas in his head!

• Link
• Report this comment

@ Jetsfan 1) I never blamed Winnipeg for the Thrashers leaving. You need to stop beating that dead horse because it is just not true. Please find anywhere that I blamed Winnipeg. I have blamed the ASG and Bettman for being a douche.
2) You blame Atlanta fans for not showing up even though you don’t have the facts. Why did only 11,000 show up per game the final year in Winnipeg? You can’t blame it on ownership selling. Using your logic that means that Winnipeg will be less supportive than Atlanta.
3) The reason people don’t show up to games are many but here are a few – location of arena (most fans that attend live in the northern suburbs and they put the arena 45 minutes away with limited parking and amenities). They priced out most of the market. It should not cost $200 for a family of four to go to one game. The season ticket holders had zero incentive to buy tickets. You would buy season tickets and then the Thrashers would undercut what you just bought to try and sell more seats. You got nothing extra for being a season ticket holder. They had terrible starting times for games. With the way Atlanta is most people who attend live 45 minutes away from the arena and with traffic you can’t make it home during the week and back to the game with a kid impossible. Quite frankly college football does dominate but that is only 12 saturdays during the year.

The ASG is making money. They are showing a book loss on the Thrashers. The arena rights is where they make all the money and they rake it in.

• Link
• Report this comment

I found your article very interesting. If ownership is so bad, why would you want the Thrashers to stay in Atlanta? Apparently noone in Atlanta is interested in owning this team and leaving them here, so why not just let them go? You actually have to go looking for coverage of the team leaving, it is far from front page news. Even in this article you manage to make the story more about the Braves and the Falcons. Also, Winnipeg had a bad owner when the Jets left. Winnipeg had stopped supporting them, and hopefully they will act differently this time around. Enjoy the Braves!

• Link
• Report this comment

Hey, lay off the Donnie. He did his job perfectly: he kept the team afloat so it could be sold off. At the end of the day, I imagine he’ll be getting one sweeet bonus from the ASG.

But really, there’s no point in finger-pointing at Waddell or the ASG. Sure, they marketed awfully. Sure, they put a sub-par team on the ice. Sure, they didn’t capture fans or capitalize on all of the potential that Atlanta has.

But that wasn’t their goal. Their goal was to eat as little a loss as possible until they could sell the team away to Hamilton, Hartford, Kansas City, or Winnipeg. And in that, they succeeded.

Sucks for those of us who kinda like hockey, but it is what it is. The ASG never really intended to keep this team, and never really intended to make it successful. They intended to sell it – and that’s what they’ve done.

• Link
• Report this comment

It’s starting to unfold that the ASG did not want the Thrashers in Phillips Arena, no matter what local or out of town buyer(willing to keep the team in Atl) was offering. The ASG did HAVE interested parties in buying the team and keeping them here, but has made it near impossible to cut a deal with. Whomever might convince them to sell the team, was then left with having to pay a lease to them at an unfair rate/deal and would get no profit from parking, concessions, or similar.

No one would be crazy enough to still try and buy the team under conditions like those, even if the ASG was willing to. The only hope in this case was someone coming in and purchasing all three entities, the Thrashers, Hawks and the arena. What the story is behind why the ASG didn’t pursue selling everything is still a mystery. I would guess that it is a combo of getting more cash if they sell the teams seperate, some of the Atlanta (Dis)Spirit still wanting to own a piece of the Hawks and arena, and a major disconnect between what the ASG value all three properties at as a package vs what prospective buyers think.

• Link
• Report this comment

Here’s a thought: We are so screwed. NHL in Atlanta is a loser no matter who owns the team. May as well be a men’s field hockey team. Put us out of our misery. Keep the Gwinnett Gladiators.

• Link
• Report this comment

While this is no doubt a tragic loss, one can’t help but wonder if it’s a fair tradeoff, since we probably never have to hear cutesie-wootsie nicknames being used during a broadcast ever again.

Kovy? Slavy? Savvy?………Kari?

C’mon! That $hit doesn’t belong in the game……That was the only benefit to actually going to the game – not having to hear it!

• Link
• Report this comment

The Atlanta Spirit should take the blame……please run them out of town with the Thrashers…….they really are a horrible organization.

• Link
• Report this comment

@TheAntiMe wrote: “You spend your money supporting dog feces and I’ll spend mine to go see Megadeth, Godsmack, >and Disturbed. Or Motley Crue and Poison. And, oh yeah, The Warped Tour is just on the horizon.”

Wow, you sure told them.

• Link
• Report this comment

@Atladave

So what’s your solution? Keep it in Atlanta and lose 20 million a year?

• Link
• Report this comment

@Kanarstead

Jealous huh.

• Link
• Report this comment

>>>Guffman wrote: I am just speculating, but there has to be a
>>>reason why no local groups have been willing to step up. wrote:

I’ll repeat it one more time: that reason is the ATLANTA SPIRIT!

They RIGGED THE GAME. There’s a difference between trying to SELL a team and SHIP OUT a team and they made it clear by their choices of actions that they are only interested in shipping the team out.

Let me give you a simpler way of putting it: Let’s say TNSE suddenly declared tomorrow that they wanted to keep the team in Atlanta and Tom Glavine did a 180 and said he and his investors wanted to move to Winnipeg. I bet you that within a heartbeat, Glavine & co. would suddenly be portrayed in a COMPLETELY different light. Their resources would be considered bountiful. TNSE would suddenly be portrayed as paupers. Why? Because TNSE would be smart enough to tell the Spirit to take their lease and shove it.

There are plenty of Atlantans who want hockey (or any other sport for that matter), but the Spirit doesn’t and they are bound and determined to ensure no one else in the area gets it either.

• Link
• Report this comment

@ Keep Hockey in Atlanta … Yes i think the Toronto Blue Jays shouldn’t have a baseball team… How can you have an NHL team in the southern US and expect it to make it big… most southern teams example- Thrashers, Blue Jackets, Coyotes, Panthers and now the hurricanes are on the list that are not profitable… so explain to me how your Thrashers after being in the NHL for a while have not had one profitable year… why should the other owners & and the NHL cover up the loss for teams that barely make a packed house… correct me if i’m wrong but weren’t the Thrashers 28th out of 30 in attendance ?? One of MR.PUTTTER comments sums it up… keep the team in Atlanta and lose another 20 million ?? he’s right….. another excellent comment MIKE said… 14 sold out games in a year for the Thrashers…. here in Montreal we get 14 sellout games in the first 14 games… what does that tell you ???

• Link
• Report this comment

OK condition is if an ownership group puts a winning team on the ice people will come and see it. That is the flaw right there. Look at Toronto or any of the Canadian Teams; They have a fan base no matter how bad things get on the ice. That is a “FAN BASE” I can certainly see some people here have a stance to their team but you ar eto few to make it work in ATL.

• Link
• Report this comment

@ ATL Oberver

I would think that ASG would prefer to sell to the highest bidder, regardless of whether it was local or to a group that would relocate the team elsewhere. The problem is, the team is not worth that much in Atlanta compared to Winnipeg. If the team is only worth $50M in Atlanta, and the NHL forced them to sell locally, then that forces down the value of franchises if there is a large impediment to moving. If the established value of some of these hard hit franchises plummets, banks that have loans to these franchises will view these as shaky investments, and may start calling in their debts/raise interest rates.

Mayne the fair thing to say is that the potemtial local owners only would pay fair value for keeping the team in Atlanta, but not the outside relocation value.

It’s the same problem in Phoenix. The NHL wants to sell at an inflated value, and that is why no one will buy it unless they get massive subidization from the government.

This game is all about artificially keeping up franchise value, and that kills markets like Atlanta and Phoenix.

• Link
• Report this comment

I swear, having attempted to read that incoherent, illiterate bafflegam on the hockeybuzz.com message board, I will never again complain about the quality of the commenters at the AJC.

Although, that would be really funny if the Coyotes play one more season in Phoenix before relocating here.

• Link
• Report this comment

@ Emi in Montreal

Hey, thanks for backing me up. Like the way you handle yourself.

• Link
• Report this comment

And how do you account for ATL having the largest fan club in the NHL? If memory serves, I believe it wasn’t too long ago the Islanders were horrid. Gee, 2 teams in NYC, plus Buffalo, plus Boston a mere 150 miles away, and the Devils closer than that…why not move one of THEM to Winnipeg if the NHL is so all-fired set on moving a team?

Get ‘em, Jeff. Nothing would bring me more joy than watching Bettman turn tail and run…or have him pull a Newt and find himself backpedaling from here to British Columbia.

• Link
• Report this comment

Jeff, I guess I should have said knowledge OR insight?? Thanks

• Link
• Report this comment

@Billsen

I’m 6/8th’s Canadian. My Mom was born and raised in the town of Montreal, Quebec. I started playing pond hockey in Canada when I was 3 years old. I’ve seen the USA/RUSSIA exhibition on VHS where team USA had its butts handed to them prior to the 1980 Olympics and saw Tyson beat Spinks on cable…I’ve refused Thrashers season tickets since year one, and would never pay in advance for a season that is never going to happen.

Why do I mention this? Because I’m very sick and tired of being told I’ve never been there! I’ve lived in North Atlanta for years, I’ve been in Philips (never below section 200 however because taking a step lower requires a copy of your mortgage)and frankly, I’m quite well versed when it comes to this town, and its fans. Also, I’m not sure if this is relevant, but Thrash bit me once…

As Jeff pointed out (but seems slightly misguided) the same financial (money) problems don’t happen in “traditional” markets when the teams are poorly run because the teams still generate MONEY. Look at the attendance of teams like the Blues, Bruins, Blackhawks, Islanders and Penguins sucked wind (money) – you MIGHT see a decided correlation between attendance and team performance, but they still make money. Money, money, money. TV, money. Television, Nielson Ratings, TV, TV, TV. Money, money, money Viewer discretion is advised. Money.

The teams you mention are *profitable* and don’t lose 20 million + annually. And even when they aren’t setting the world on fire, investors step up because they look at the team’s full HISTORY see the potential to make……………………………….money? That couldn’t be what this is all about.

4 of the 5 you mention are Stanley Cup winners. The one who isn’t is a former President’s trophy winner.

THAT is the simple truth……………*whispering* Money.

• Link
• Report this comment

@ Canada….really? Are you kidding me? You’re comparing 5.3 Million people, most of who can’t even spell “Hockey” to a passionate 3/4 Million people in a city that has proven over and over and over again that they know, love, and support all levels of hockey.

Emerging market? You’ve had way too many years and franchises to have the audacity to even suggest this is an “emerging” market. Call it was it is……..a lost cause.

Do you realize just how un-credible you look??? Dwindling economy? How does 4% unemployment compare to Atlanta? Couldn’t hold on to a franchise? Gee……don’t you think that’s the pot calling the kettle black???? How do you justify calling Winnipeg down for exactly what Atlanta did with the Flames, and is now doing with the Thrashers?????

• Link
• Report this comment

I guess Bettman never learned the lesson the American auto makers learned years ago. People won’t buy a crappy product if they have a good alternative. I guess he also hasn’t noticed that the economy isn’t great right now and people don’t have a lot of money to piss away on junk. If you want to fill the seats provide a product that is worth the cost of the admission. This isn’t Chicago where Cub fans will fill the seats year after year after year…….. for over a century now waiting for the Cubs to produce something or the Black Hawk fans who had to wait 49 yrs for a championship just to see the owners promptly dismantle the team afterward. The Thrashers have been here only 11 years but have never produced much to get fans behind the team. The Cubs and the Black Hawks can get away with a so so product because they have the generation effect on their fan base.11 years doesn’t allow for the fan base to develop like Chicago and NY where it’s something passed down from generation to generation by the parents. That sort of fan base helps those teams weather the ups and downs. There’s plenty of hockey interest in this town. Don’t blame the fans. Blame the ownership for putting minimal effort into producing a product people want to buy.

• Link
• Report this comment

Do you realize how stupid and selfish some of you Canadians sound? You realize what your stating is the great “Major League” game of hockey is really just a niche sport capable of only being enjoyed in certain regions of the world unlike baseball, football, basketball, golf, and soccer. In your small world it is nothing more than cricket, lacrosse, curling, or Aussie rules football. How very sad for you and, much worse, the game.

• Link
• Report this comment

Well said Jeff…you’ve been our champion of accountability through this slow, painful death. Keep hammering them until they’re gone!

• Link
• Report this comment

Bettman “Deal May Not Happen”—What does that mean?

• Link
• Report this comment

That’s be amazing if the deal falls thru and I’m not even a thrashers fan. Actually I’m from a place that has lost an nhl team too.

• Link
• Report this comment

Thank you, Jeff. Your RATIONAL analysis of numbers and facts is refreshing. I was a season ticket holder for 4 years and even traveled to NY for our lone playoff. (Try walking into MSG with your head up wearing a Thrashers jersey among thousands of Rangers fans.) Anyway, I moved to LA in 2009 for a job, and the toughest decision I had to make was giving up my Thrashers season tickets. For anyone who was around during that Southeast Division Champion season, Philips Arena WAS ELECTRIC. Great ownership and a winning attitude drives any franchise. I implore any billionaire out there to step up, purchase this team and give Atlanta the hockey team it deserves. Come to table with passion, energy and a voice, and trust me, the Thrasher fans will line-up and follow you through thick and thin. Keep up the great work, Jeff.

• Link
• Report this comment

Jeff, I think I speak for all Thrashers fans when I say this… it’s good to know that you’ve got our back, at least.

And jarvis… ease up on the Canadian bashing, will you? It’s not helping anything. Most Canadians are just as frustrated with the NHL as we are.

• Link
• Report this comment

Thank you Jeff!

• Link
• Report this comment

Oh, and Montreal Mike….check out how much of Atlanta’s population is made up of educated, diehard hockey fans transplanted by jobs to a this city before you make such insulting blanket statements. It just makes you look as ignorant as you undoubtedly are.

• Link
• Report this comment

[...] – Cowardly Bettman ignoring evidence of Thrashers fans [...]

• Link
• Report this comment

haha… did you even read what Bettman said? your analogy is horrible. look. “Eat at a new restaurant. If dinner makes your stomach feel like there are a thousand screaming piranhas in it, that’s OK. Eat there the following week, because you wouldn’t want that restaurant to go out of business” — implying you don’t care if the restaurant goes out of business. if you ACTUALLY don’t want the restaurant to go out of business, then the only thing you can do within your power IS to eat there again. but you don’t, and when they go out of business, you don’t care. if that’s an accurate comparison to the hockey team, then you’re saying that yeah, the product sucks so you don’t go see it – and then you don’t care if the product is gone, because it sucked. yes, it’s ASG’s fault the team is going to move – everyone knows that. but attacking that particular statement by Bettman is beyond ridiculous. the bottom line is EXACTLY what Bettman said – if you don’t show up, you don’t make the team an attractive purchase. if anyone here wants to deny that, probably aren’t going to ever experience much success in the business world.

• Link
• Report this comment

Jeff Schultz Your article is spot on, Bettman is a worm no doubt about it. The exception being Winnipeg’s last season attendance.

For starters we were told the Jets were leaving at the end of the previous season. They out right told us this. How many Thrashers fans would buy tickets to go see a game that is about to leave town? There were no Balkan’s rumoured to be about in Winnipeg, there was not going to be any government subsidies, no White Knights to save the day so in essence the Jets were done like dinner. The economy sucked back when they left very similar to what the fine folks south of here are enduring now.

The original Wpg arena held 10,000 seats and was expanded to 16,000 albeit very poorly. I would say there were 12,000 NHL calibre seats the rest were a joke. If you were in the upper Ashtray’s you needed a oxygen mask and could not see entire rink even while standing, except if you were in very first row. The exchange at the time was 62 cents American = 1 dollar Cdn and all contracts were and still are paid, in American ducat’s. The city has grown, economy is flying and the new arena while small, is owned by the folks who want to buy your team. The Jets received no concessions money , no money from parking as the building was run by a city enterprise. They got a small percentage of the gate. That’s it!! They also received no money from concerts that took place there.

Today all of these monies go to the owner and the MTS Center is like the 7th most used arena in North America. Things have changed drastically. Then there is the salary cap and revenue sharing and were in a completely different ball park then 16 years ago.

I sincerely feel for the die hard fans of the Thrashers. I know this really sucks. But if you want a bad guy Bettman is it and your phoney owner. Saw him on TV last night, another worm I would say. He is so insincere about caring about the fans Blah Blah Blah. Its unfortunate that Glendale’s meathead mayor ponied up 25 Mill to rent the Yotes another season or you guys may have had the time to find a Real owner to run your team. Yes Winnipeg is buzzing at the thought of getting a team, but we take no joy in the sadness that is present in Atlanta right now.

I was down last year and went to 2 Thrashers games and met some excellent people. Went to some beer house type joint around the corner from the arena and had some Beers with a few lads. They teased me about my Jets jersey and I teased them about the score that night. Good bunch of guys. Sorry folks It just sucks all the way around.

• Link
• Report this comment

If fans stay away from lousy teams with lousy ownership, how do explain the Maple Leafs?

• Link
• Report this comment

gary bettman can GO TO HELL along with asg and LIAR don waddell… I am so done with the nhl now.

• Link
• Report this comment

The last Thrashers game I went to was half empty and a 3rd of the fans there was openly rooting for the other team.

Atlanta is just a terrible city in general, so by default it’s a bad city for sports. Anyone in the east suburbs who enjoys hockey will just go to a Gladiator’s game. Dirt cheap tickets, free parking and you don’t have to use riot gear to get past the never ending stream of homeless panhandlers that infest downtown.

• Link
• Report this comment

just add the NHL to the growing list of pro sports that are fast becoming overpriced and out of reach of the average fan……eventually ( sooner, not later ) we’re all going to have to save our money for FOOD, HOUSING, and GAS. Grabit while you can you overpriced atheletes and greedy owners, it’s all coming to an end very soon.

• Link
• Report this comment

I’m a Canadian (Ottawa) and for the hockey fans in Atlanta you have my sympathies. It is very unfortunate that none of the major companies based in Atlanta were willing to take on this challenge and market the game to the southern audience. For those who bring up Montreal and Toronto, get real! These are two of the most established hockey markets in the world and the comparison is not fair. It’s like comparing the NY Yankee’s marketing strategies to the failed Expos franchise. Hockey could work in Atlanta, you just need an owner with the imagination and drive to make it happen, unfortunately the Thrashers had neither.

Good luck to the new Jets or Moose, you will no doubt find a very warm reception in Winnipeg. Hopefully the players will go there with an open mind, yes it’s cold in the winter but you are now looking at the Green Bay of the NHL.

• Link
• Report this comment

[...] and he’ll deliver the same canned, phony speech about how he always believed in this market. The guy has told so many lies, it’s a wonder he’s not an Atlanta Spirit partner. Now living in [...]

• Link
• Report this comment

Bettman will be remembered as the guy that led the NHL to ruin. Hockey sucks. It sucks everywhere. You know how I know? Cause Canadians love it. – by Jarvis

I’m Canadian Jarvis. It’s great to be a Canadian, our dollar is better, our economy is better, we don’t get attacked by terrorists and we arent hated thoughout the planet. Get a grip and take your head out of your butt.

• Link
• Report this comment

It’s not Winnipeg’s fault the owners in Atlanta were dum…Anyway those of you who think the players won’t want to go to Winnipeg are so full of it….Most of the players are Canadian and know exactly where Winnipeg is and also with the cost of living allot lower, FREE health care and beautiful classy women (no trailer park thrash there) these guys will be in heaven. Anyway Hockey is Canadian and most americans can’t even follow a puck, you didn’t deserve a Franchise and it was just made right today. See ya! Oh yeah! Keep going to basketball games and keep filling the pockets of the owner that just screwed you….

• Link
• Report this comment