Cowardly Bettman ignoring evidence of Thrashers fans
Gary Bettman is blaming Atlanta hockey fans for not supporting a bad product. (AP photo)
In his most recent spoken example of the Wile E. Coyote/Acme explosives/NHL public relations disaster, NHL commissioner Gary Bettman somewhat admonished Thrashers fans for not buying tickets to what has been a crummy product for most of their 11 seasons.
Quoting here: “Demonstrating your dissatisfaction by not going to games is an interesting strategy. It’s your absolute right. But if it becomes a turnoff for anybody who might want to buy the franchise, the long-term consequences could be severe.”
Imagine if we applied this philosophy to other aspects in our life.
Buy a new car. If the doors fall off two blocks down the street, that’s OK. Just make sure you support that dealership by buying another one next year. Eat at a new restaurant. If dinner makes your stomach feel like there are a thousand screaming piranhas in it, that’s OK. Eat there the following week, because you wouldn’t want that restaurant to go out of business. And this time, bring friends!
Bettman doesn’t want to leave the impression that the NHL is on the verge of abandoning Atlanta again (which it is). So he is trying to lay the ground work for the Thrashers’ exit to Winnipeg. He’ll point to attendance and stupid stuff like only a few hundred fans showing up at a rally. He’ll do everything possible to try to convince you that this mugging wasn’t his fault and he had no choice.
Don’t fall for it.
All aboard for Winnipeg . . .
Let me tell you a story. The Braves averaged about 10,000 fans per game in 1988, which they finished 54-106. In one late-season game, attendance was announced at 3,017. Ex-Brave Gerald Perry mused, “Sometimes, we look up from the dugout and say, ‘This’d be another good day to paint the seats.’”
Let me tell you a story. In 1989, 7,792 fans showed up for an NFL game, or at least one between the Falcons and Detroit Lions at old Atlanta-Fulton Stadium. When one fan was asked why he purchased a ticket, he responded, “It was a Christmas present, and I didn’t want to let my brother down. He could be here, but he said he’d rather go to grandma’s.” The Falcons finished 3-13 that season.
Postscript: The Braves started winning in 1991 and attendance doubled. It tripled by 1992 and quadrupled by 1993. Falcons’ attendance spiked under Jerry Glanville, dropped again when the team lost, then returned after Arthur Blank, Michael Vick and success arrived (38 straight sellouts).
Most of you probably understand where I’m going with this. The cowardly Bettman is in the corner with his eyes closed, ears covered and loudly humming, pretending not to notice.
If a team wins, it draws fans. If a team does the right thing – or sometimes even just leaves the impression it’s trying really hard to do the right things – it draws fans. Atlanta losing an NHL team isn’t about Atlanta not having enough hockey fans to support a franchise. It’s about the fact that people grew fed up with supporting a bad product run by bad ownership.
Let me tell you a story. In their inaugural season, the Thrashers sold out 14 games and averaged 17,205 fans per game in a 61-loss season. A year later, they averaged 15,265 in a 47-loss season. In three year, the team got worse and attendance dropped even more.
The Thrashers made the playoffs in 2006-07 for the first (and only) time in their history. Funny thing happened. They sold out more games (11) and averaged more fans (16,239) than in any season since the first.
Millions of Braves fans didn’t suddenly move here in 1991. Blank didn’t hand out $500 bills across state borders to get people to come to Falcons games. Thrashers fans didn’t move after two seasons, then come for the playoffs, then move again. This isn’t about a market. It’s about a fan base that has seen too many car doors fall off.
In 2003-04, Chicago, an “Original 6” team, had the second-worst record in the league and ranked 27th in attendance at 13,253 (2,000 less than the Thrashers). Six years later, when the Blackhawks won the Stanley Cup, they drew 21,356.
Could it be there’s a connection?
Bettman will try to convince you Atlanta just didn’t want hockey bad enough. He’ll ignore the reasons. He’ll grab millions in a relocation fee from a city that he moved a team from 15 years earlier.
The Winnipeg Jets averaged 11,316 fans in their final season — 2,000 less than the Thrashers drew this year. Don’t expect to read that in the news release.
By Jeff Schultz
♦
Earlier: Countdown: Bettman, Spirit on Facebook, angry beaver, Monta’s tattoo
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455 comments Add your comment
Kevin
May 24th, 2011
7:26 pm
Man Rainbow your comments are what people are talking about, why disrespect Thrashers fans like that. Being a hockey fan in Winnipeg I am thrilled that we are getting a team unfortunately it’s at other fans expense. I would have never thought that the Thrashers would be coming, thought for the last 2 years the Coyotes would be coming back. Atlanta Thrashers fans have every right to be upset, mostly at Gary Bettman because basically they chose Phoenix over Atlanta and the Coyotes draw less.
Reality
May 24th, 2011
7:27 pm
Florida jacket “Yes Reality, and in 10 years everyone in Winnipeg will be pissed off about losing their second hockey team.”
Thats OK. Its still 10 more years of NHL hockey than they have now. In reality, the fans had nothing to do with the Jets leaving the first time. And you are absolutely correct, if the Jets come back and we lose them again, then its just not meant to be…. Just like Atlanta.
TheAntiMe
May 24th, 2011
7:31 pm
Wow, Kevin, thanks for demonstrating that there is actually intelligent life in Winnipeg.
Rob
May 24th, 2011
7:36 pm
While I agree with much of the article and how Bettman has not helped the city. Couple of points I’d like to make, i’m new to the area and came from an area (S. FLA) that also gets denigrated by the Canadian press. First, after doing some reading on the Thrasher ownership, I’m shocked they were even approved for a team, considering they wanted to get rid of them litterally after 1 year, it tells me Bettman and the NHL did an absolutely horrible job in guarding Atlanta’s interests, this led to the mess the Spirit created but no doubt Bettman and the NHL share the blame for that. In hindsight the Spirit should never have been approved for a team.
In regard to your point about winning leading to more fans showing up, absolutely true especially in these economic times. However, I do have one problem, I find it hard to believe that if the Falcons or the Braves were on the verge of moving, that only 250 would attend a rally to show support for keep them in town. I find it hard to believe that the local medial would not be banging the drum calling for new ownership or calling out the leagues and there leadership. The Thrashers however get barely a mention and while I believe there is a strong core group of Thrasher fans, I was suprised more didn’t show up to suppor them.
In the end Bettman and the NHL just want to walk away from this mistake in there minds they see an area where no local ownership has stepped up, local city and business support has been lacking and lastly while locals no better, they see a fan base that only shows up in the 100’s to fight for there team.
Cromwell
May 24th, 2011
7:40 pm
TheAntiMe posts : Absolutely no one – I repeat – no one on this entire planet, outside of the people of Winnipeg, gives a damn about Winnipeg in any way, shape or form. They never have and they never will. Get over it.
Except one: the nhl….
thats all we care about. good argument though. lol
TheAntiMe
May 24th, 2011
7:48 pm
@Cromwell – lol – Sure they do, buddy. They care deeply about that $60 million relocation fee. But I’m very certain that they care sooooo much more about the city of Winnipeg. If not, then I guess you can just feel lucky that $60 million can buy you a lot of concern these days.
Rutherford Seydel
May 24th, 2011
7:50 pm
I ruin whatever I want – ha ha! I’m a spoiled idiot with no business sense! Suck it Joe Public!
the truth
May 24th, 2011
7:53 pm
On the contrary, Winnipeckers, we’re glad you’ll have the option to show how pathtic you are by paying good loonies (are you serious???) to see a crap team because its the only thing in town.
Barry C
May 24th, 2011
7:54 pm
Back in the 90’s the CDN $ was worth 60 cents US. The Winnipeg Arena only held around 15000. Things ahve changed. We held a rally here back in 96 and had 35000 people show up. How many hundred showed up in Atlanta on Saturday? Save for a few thousand people, you don’t care about hockey, just like most Canadians don’t give a crap about NASCAR and basketball. How did you loose the Flames in 1980? 2X loosers in Altanta. As much as I think Bettman is an arse, he’s right about Atlanta. Seems as if the mayor want’s them gone too.
Florida jacket
May 24th, 2011
7:57 pm
I don’t think I’m making my point very well so I will try one more time. The NHL has 30 teams, with no teams in Baltimore, Houston, Seattle, Denver, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Kansas City or San Diego. Teams in Phoenix, Tampa, Miami, North Carolina, New York, Tennessee, Ohio and California are in varying degrees of financial trouble. With this as a background the NHL is preparing to move a team from one city to another city that is less than 20% it’s size. The difference is actually larger than this because around Atlanta you have Chattanooga, Birmingham and half a dozen other metropolitan areas that each individually is larger than Winnipeg. What this says about the NHL is larger than one team or two cities. What we are seeing may be the death throes of the National Hockey League.
Artie B's not Walking Through That Door, People
May 24th, 2011
8:08 pm
Jeff, hold ASG to the fire on this. Ask them how they feel about laying off hundreds of employees when breaking even and getting their way. Blood libel for Bruce, Ed and Michael.
Astonished
May 24th, 2011
8:11 pm
Has anybody been writing to David McDavid now that he should have his $281 Million settlement from Time Warner over the breach of contract when Spirit bought all the properties? Who could be better to save the Thrashers now that Spirit wants to sell it all? He might even be able to buy at less than the cost in 2003 when you figure in his lawsuit winnings!
Let McDavid know the fans will support him if he buys the Thrash, Hawks and Philips Arena and gets them away from Spirit! Spread the word and email, write and call David McDavid today!!!! It’s late in the game but he’s from Dallas: The Mavs’ cause looked hopeless in OKC Monday night, but they still pulled out a win in overtime!
http://www.mcdavidcompanies.com/contact.php
Mr David McDavid
Chairman/CEO
McDavid Companies
17120 N. Dallas Parkway Suite 235
Dallas, TX 75248
T. 972.716.0300
F. 972.250.1715
Gary B.
May 24th, 2011
8:23 pm
Well said, Mr. Schultz, but I do still have one question– how is this going to affect the league’s overall decision?
mark33
May 24th, 2011
8:26 pm
displaced ACCOUNTABILITY.
Betteman is wrongly holding the ATL fans accountable when he should be pointing at the Atlanta Spirit.
The reason: He wants 60 Million dollars and knows the fans can’t sue him.
Al
May 24th, 2011
8:27 pm
So, yes, the Jets averaged 11316 fans their final season…that final season being a “lame duck” season where everyone knew the previous year that this would be their final year. Aside from that fact Jeff, what you are telling us all is that the Atlanta fans are “fair weather” fans who only show up to games when their respective teams start to win? Please tell me this isn’t the case!
Guffman
May 24th, 2011
8:31 pm
Look, we get that ASG’s stewardship of the team was poor. As Bettman said, it is your absolute right to not buy tickets because you are unhappy with the team. He is also correct in saying that poor attendence may make the franchise look unattractive to potential buyers.
If I was a buyer, I might think, “Well, if I turn this franchise into a winner, I might win back some fans, but what happens if they start losing for a couple of seasons? Will they be fickle again and not show up?”
You may feel justified for not buying tickets, but the result is that the team becomes less valuable to potential buyers.
Florida is a big place. The fact that no local owmership group has stepped up is quite amazing. You say ASG wanted to cash out within a year of buying this team, so it wasn’t secret knowledge that just turned up 5 months ago. You didn’t need Lil Jon to spread awareness on that.
Bottom line is that you take a big risk when you don’t support your team, whether justified or not.
Whether Winnipeg is a poor market or not is irrelevant. Winnipeg has a buyer, Atlanta has a seller (and no buyers). Game over.
Kanata Senators
May 24th, 2011
8:41 pm
I would like to apologize for the trolling on behalf of the non a-hole people of Canada. I am not from Winnipeg, but I can guarantee the trolls posting on this blog are not representative of the majority of people in Winnipeg.
It would seem that in any city in the world, including both Winnipeg and Atlanta, there is an (equal) idiot per capita ratio, and they all seem to enjoy the interwebs.
Phi K
May 24th, 2011
8:50 pm
Please, tell me that Bettman didn’t have this planned out from the get-go. Does anyone else think that it is more than a little suspicious that the Manitoba Moose have been reported that they will be moving to St. John’s? Keep in mind, St. John’s is right near Conception Bay South, the same place that just happened to win the Kraft Hockeyville 2011 – a preseason game between the Atlanta Thrashers and Ottawa Senators!!!!!!
David
May 24th, 2011
8:50 pm
Im a very dissappoint with this league they say they are big time. Yet they can not stay in a major market like Atlanta. This is a small time league , IM DONE… I’M NOT FROM ATLANTA I LIVE IN A CITY THAT IS STILL PLAYING HOCKEY NOW BOSTON…….
David
May 24th, 2011
8:56 pm
THIS SPORT WAS GOING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION IN THE 1990′S IN THE US. THIS MOVE SETS IT BACK MANY YEARS… TRY ME AGAIN NHL WHEN YOU ARE SERIOUS ABOUT THE MAKING THIS GAME A NATIONAL SPORT AGAIN…. DISSAPPOINTED IN BOSTON
Drew
May 24th, 2011
9:00 pm
Bettman doesn’t make your team win or lose. He doesn’t make them profitable, and he isn’t going to buy the team. If the product was bad, and no one went, that’s the fault of the old owner and administration. If no one wants to buy the team and lose money, that’s perfectly reasonable, but would be blamed on potential new owners. I don’t like Bettman, but he has nothing to do with what you’re complaining about. You either are desperately searching for a scapegoat or you have no idea how sports and money work.
Rob
May 24th, 2011
9:02 pm
You left out the part where the Braves couldn’t sell out playoff games. I’m sure it was just an oversight, because you’d never intentionally leave out something so damning about Atlanta’s sports “fans”.
Jay
May 24th, 2011
9:02 pm
In their BEST year, the Thrashers owners claim they lost $20M and we averaged over 16,000 per game. Let’s do the math. If there were 40 (41) home games, and 5,000 MORE fans attended every game and all tickets were $100, that would equal $20M. Enough to make up the lost $20M, enough to BREAK EVEN.
These are the alleged missing 5000 fans who WOULD have shown up, if Atlanta was a “real” hockey town, like Winnipeg. And a real fan from Winnipeg who was willing to spend $100 per ticket. 5000 tickets x $100 a ticket x 40 games = $20M.
Problem is, Atlanta’s stadium holds 19,000 not 21,000 (16,000 + the additional 5,000).
Sounds like ownership has problems with TV and radio rights, advertising rights,etc, not the fan attendance.
The owners lost their ass for other reasons, like their OWN internal ownership legal costs for the Belkin buyout and probably include that in their losses. Allowing their AA minor league team to be located 20 miles away in a more affluent part of town which could have provided add’l fans in a bad traffic city. Losing a great deal of concession dollars to the CNN Center connected to the stadium. NOT because of “fair weather transplanted hockey fans that would rather watch NASCAR and listen to Jeff Foxworthy.”
Qwerty
May 24th, 2011
9:04 pm
Mr Schultz, what would you have Mr Bettman do? He is paid (very well) by his employers to generate value. There are no local buyers, so the local value of the team is very nearly zero. The value of the team in Winnipeg is $170M. I would argue that ASG gets zero and the NHL gets $170M in relocation fees. Mr Bettman is already dealing with one team dropped into bankruptcy, and that would seem the next logical step for ASG if the team didn’t sell. Yes, ASG is probably not suffering as much as they claim, but in bankruptcy they could flip the team for $100M+. They are watching Phoenix and learning. Mr Bettman could not buy another team, so he needed to control the flip. He’s holding his nose on this, but what else could he do? Good for Winnipeg for being at the right place at the right time. Bad for Atlanta for becoming a victim of business. And that’s all it is, business. Oh, one more thing, the NHL is making money. Oodles of it. Record amounts. Check the press releases.
Phi K
May 24th, 2011
9:05 pm
Please, tell me that Bettman didn’t have this planned out from the get-go.
Does anyone else think that it is more than a little suspicious that the Manitoba Moose have been reported that they will be moving to St. John’s? Keep in mind, St. John’s is right near Conception Bay South, the same place that just happened to win the Kraft Hockeyville 2011 – a preseason game between the Atlanta Thrashers and Ottawa Senators!!!!!!
Mark (another one)
May 24th, 2011
9:14 pm
Sorry. I didn’t read all the comments. What I failed to see is, who cares? I wish Winnipeg and the thrashers well but please, who in the U.S. considers the NHL a national league? It has failed to win a significant presence on U.S. TV. It is on the verge of most teams going under. And, their central office approved ASG with an unclear ownership agreement to buy the team and keep it in the courts for months. I spend my money on minor league baseball before spending it on minor league hockey.
The Thrashers’ sale and moving is a symptom but the NHL doesn’t have a cure. Certainly NHL leadership is either blind or dumb, or both. I still believe the ASG should sue the NHL over the relocation fee and any other impediment the NHL tries to apply to the sale and move. Winnipeg has an owner that wants to make a go of it, and he has the money. Does the NHL have any other requirements?
StingerSplash
May 24th, 2011
9:21 pm
Bettman makes Bud Selig look like Pete Rozzelle.
He’s that bad.
Dave
May 24th, 2011
9:22 pm
WOOOO The jets are coming back! And yet again Canadians owe a dept of gratitude to Americans for just not getting the game, you guys still do the lines or whatever to point where the puck is?
Also Canadians love hockey and americans as a vast majority just dont get a physical game with more than 2 players.
J-man
May 24th, 2011
9:27 pm
Funny how no other team in the NHL is held to the standard we are – support your team no matter what or we’ll let it move away.
Wpger
May 24th, 2011
9:30 pm
How about the fact that in Winnipegs last year all the tickets were sold, and yeah Winnipeg had a team that had a poor record as well. How about the fact that Winnipegs save the Jets rally crammed 6000-7000 people into Portage and Main, heck a spontanious crowd of 400-500 showed up on a Thursday night on the rumor the Jets were coming back. Yet Atlanta’s organized rally for the Thrashers can only get 200-300 on a Saturday? Lets face it there are die hard fans in Atlanta who I feel sorry for, and I can’t stand Bettman because he rips teams awy from some places yet pays to keep them in others ($17 million to bail out Pheonix last year). Add the fact that Canada represents 30% of NHL viewership with only 6 teams, that’s 5% for every city in Canada that has a team.
cable guy
May 24th, 2011
9:33 pm
I’ll bet once the deal is done and ASG is out of the hockey business, former players will be very vocal about the supreme level of stupidity that took place here.
Sullys dad
May 24th, 2011
9:33 pm
Hey , we have aNHL teams in Atlanta?? If I would have known that i would have went to a few games.
@sully
May 24th, 2011
9:37 pm
nice line d-bag and so original, go back to boston.
Cornbread
May 24th, 2011
9:42 pm
Let’s face reality, not all but the vast majority of Canadians posting here are complete idiots and total douche bags.
ThrashersWillPlayInOctober
May 24th, 2011
9:45 pm
anyone have the address of bettman. i will deliver this to him personally.
thrasherdawg
May 24th, 2011
9:49 pm
Kasim Reed is a joke!
If the facts are correct, the Thrashers bring in somewhere between $30 & $40 million dollars in revenue for the city of Atlanta each year. If the mayor thought like a business man instead of a politician, the city could offer a $20 million dollar bond (covering one year of the shorfall / losses) that would keep the Thrashers here one more year. This would give a reasonable time to find an owner ( not 4 weeks). This gives the fans a chance to show up to the games. The $20 million dollar bond would cost the taxpayer less in taxes than the shortfall of the 30 to 40 million dollars the city is no receiving. Thus the taxpayers are actually better off.
I know many will assume it’s not true but if that is your position, you don’t understand finance. Do the math.
You can’t sale a house in a month but you can sell a 110 million dollar NHL franchise in 10 days.
Bettman is pathetic…he is putting a short term fix…MONEY…. ahead of integrity and what is best for the long term success of the sport. Must be the new NHL.
In closing, I’m not saying Winnipeg shouldn’t get a franchise….Just let them pay the 90 million dollars for the franchise fee and everyone is happy.
I can’t wait till the Falcon’s leave the city. Wish they could take the Braves with them.
glovesave29
May 24th, 2011
9:49 pm
Guffman – I see your point, but think you are a bit off base. There is a difference between trying and failing…vs. not trying at all.
The Falcons have been pretty bold this offseason vis-a-vi the draft. Jones could be a bust and the team faulters…but that GM Dimitroff went for it to make us better gives the fans the impression that he cares and wants this team to be a winner.
We got a decade of a failing GM who discounts the importance of goaltending. No one was ever held accountable because no one ever cared!
younger1968
May 24th, 2011
9:50 pm
I do feel your pain about the potential of losing your team. I am Canadian and have worked/spent considerable time in the United States and have a different perspective about sports in the states. The USA has three seasons: Football, Basketball and Baseball. Hockey is cold winter sport and is also very expensive to play and thus is a difficult sell in the sunbelt.
I believe thrasher failed due to their ownership issue and product on the ice. I think Bettman is trying to save face by selling the team and taking $60 million to offset the losses from Phoenix. I am more surprised that Bettman has not done more for the Atlanta franchise, because at least they have people going to games unlike phoenix. However, Bettman does things on his term and that is why NHL is where it is with its development.
Coolio
May 24th, 2011
9:55 pm
Okay Shultz, how many of those in attendance received comp tickets so the Thrashers could meet minimum attendance levels? 13,500 a game is a crock and everybody knows it. Falcons and Braves are a different story – how much money did they lose when they had crap attendance? Not nearly as much as the Thrashers, if any at all, due to TV revenue.
Be honest, what was the real average attendance in Atlanta this year? Wake up. And who really gives a damn, at 16,000 a game the Thrashers still lose money. Blast me all you want, as soon as Bettman stands in front of a microphone in Winnipeg on Thursday to announce the team is moving you’ll never see me here again.
You won’t miss me and you won’t miss hockey.
Rob
May 24th, 2011
10:00 pm
I understand how all you feel in Atlanta, i dont blame the fans at all, and i don’t really blame GB either. YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT THE BIG PICTURE….you have an NHL team that you love, and support as fans BUT and here it is……YOU have ASG. that dont give a rats A$$ for your team and that it, thats all. if you own a piece of %$#& car you sell it (right) even if your friends like it.(fans) that must suck. was there 15 years ago when the Jets left….it was not the fans is was the owners aswell, losing all there money due to the CND dollar at .65 cents and paying out salaries in US dollars, thats what killed it here…not the Winnipeg fans……THAT IS WHY I FEEL FOR YOU GUYS. so with that said, i’m thankful for TNSE for who they are and the WEALTH they have, they are proven leaders both on and off the (ice) and will do what it take to market the team in Winnipeg for success. (something that most or all current owner should pay attention to) or they will be in the same boat in years to come… Remember its truly not the fans why you lose your team (always the OWNERS and there love for the sport aswell as there MARKETING team)
PB
May 24th, 2011
10:02 pm
I am so sick of reading these posters blaming the loss of our NHL team on everyone they can. If you have not bought season tickets in the last three years, you are part of the reason this team is leaving town. They are leaving because no rich guy wants to own them here. And that is because they have not been able to prove the NHL can make money in ATL. Yes, this started with ownership, but the boycotts by people who call themselves NHL fans have contributed more directly. Season tickets are purchased BEFORE the season starts, and we Thrashers fans have had plenty of reason for optimism before ech season, even though we know in retrospect that the promise of each season has not been fulfilled. Season tickets have been so cheap the last three years, I cannot understand anyone who did NOT buy them saying they support the NHL in Atlanta.
Bottom line, there is an unbelievable amount of blame being thrown around, but for me, if you live in Atlanta and have not bought season tickets at the ridiculously low prices of the last three years, you should be looking directly in the mirror to assign blame for the situation we are in now.
$pirit _ $tinks
May 24th, 2011
10:02 pm
The cowardly ASG had the audacity to name their silly group the ATLANTA spirit and stab the city in the back.
Delbert D.
May 24th, 2011
10:03 pm
With hockey gone, what are the options for the arena? Roller derby? Professional paintball?
Coach Grohbo
May 24th, 2011
10:04 pm
Wow, this Bettman fellow sounds a lot like UGA’s Michael Adams.
Billsen
May 24th, 2011
10:05 pm
I’m 50% Canadian. My Mom was born and raised in the town of Mt. Royale. I started playing pond hockey in NY when I was four years old. I used to go to 4-5 Whalers games with my Uncle Roy. I was as MSG for the USA/Russia exhibition where team USA had its butts handed to us prior to the 1980 Olympics. I’ve been a Thrashers season ticket holder since year one, and have already paid for next season.
Why do I mention this? Because I’m very sick and tired of being told that Atlanta folk don’t understand the game. That is the biggest load of cr*p of all of the loads of cr*p. You’ve never been here, you’ve never been in Philips, and frankly, you’re clueless when it comes to this town, and its fans,
The one and ONLY reason the team hasn’t drawn as well as they could is because the current owners couldn’t market a prostitute in Las Vegas. They never invested in quality free agents (Ken Klee, anyone), and it got so bad that they didn’t even see a need for a full time goalie coach. Couple that with a continually poor on-ice product, and you see the result.
But, as Jeff pointed out, the same problems happen in “traditional” markets when the teams are poorly run. Look at the attendance of teams like the Blues, Bruins, Blackhawks, Islanders and Penguins sucked wind – you will see a decided correlation between attendance and team performance.
THAT is the simple truth.
Coach Grohbo
May 24th, 2011
10:07 pm
Hawks fans, pay attention.
This is your future.
Guffman
May 24th, 2011
10:07 pm
@glovesave
I guess my point is that the fans are establishing a reputation of only supporting a winner. A rabid fanbase that will support a team regardless of how successful a team is would be viewed as being more valuable to a team than the former.
Sure, at some point, you would be a sucker for throwing money at an inferior product, but on the other hand, you haven’t established an extended period of strong support. That can be troubling for a prospective owner.
I am just speculating, but there has to be a reason why no local groups have been willing to step up.
@Floridajacket
May 24th, 2011
10:08 pm
Mexico City has 6 times as many people as Atlanta, by your logic, that would be a better place for a hockey team than Atlanta by virtue of its population. Combine that with everyone else quoting ‘attendance’ as better in Atlanta that the Jets’ last season and you have two great examples of ’statistics’ erroneously being used to justify a position.
With a crap team like the Thrashers in Winnipeg next year they will have more hockey fans than Atlanta would even if Atlanta made the playoffs ten years in a row. Fans willing to PAY is the most relevant factor. Of the 13,500 people willing to go to a Thrashers game, how many of them paid? And of those that paid, how many got a free ticket with a ticket or free parking or free hot dogs or a free frigging massage?
13,500 seats sold in Winnipeg will always bring in substantially more revenue than 13,500 seats sold in Atlanta. Especially with the 5% bonus of the Canadian dollar being worth more than the USD.
Numbers don’t lie. And the numbers are in favour of the team playing in Winnipeg.
Wienerpeg Trolls
May 24th, 2011
10:11 pm
It seems that all these trolls posting here are a symptom of what a small town existence Wienerpeg must really be. Not much to do there obviously. You’ve had to watch NHL hockey on television all these years. Apparently the newspaper blog there is so lame and uninteresting that you have to go troll other cities. It must just become a way of life, living vicariously off big cities. I guess that is what happens when you live in the middle of nowhere.
ukyo(ths)
May 24th, 2011
10:11 pm
Let’s clear the air a little on the tail-wake Thrashers fans had last Saturday. The Thrashers fans did not “burn a Jets flag”. They burned a half-hearted shoe polish sign that was cobbled together by a small group of cowards that hung it from the top of the parking deck, yelled insults and curses, and then ran. What do you expect would happen? If the same thing happened in Winnipeg during the 35,000 strong death march there would have been a full on riot.
If you don’t know the facts, don’t speak on the event.
I guess in the end those morons with their shoe polish got what they wanted. Instead of actually looking at the picture the trolls lob in and say we were burning Jets flags. Not the case. No Thrashers fan brought Jets gear the to the tail wake for the sole purpose of destroying it.
Those are cold hard facts, just like these:
The Jets fans enjoyed some of the lowest ticket prices in the NHL. Still they could not sell out the venue every night like the Leafs fans do now. I should note that Leafs fans are paying ~2X the league average, and are cheering constant losers… also unlike Winnipeg.
The average ticket price for the Thrashers has been in line with the rest of the league, and at times *above* the league average. During these times, you guessed it, we out drew the Jets. But we had a bigger building! True, but the Jets didn’t sell out while their fans were paying less for their seats. There was room for improvement on both sides. Those cheap seats and the weak Canadian dollar doomed the Jets franchise in the 90s.
The Canadian dollar is booming (relatively speaking) *right now*. It won’t last. Just look at history. The Canadian dollar has past the US dollar briefly in the past, only to be followed by years and years of being between 20% and 30% lower in value. Also note the only time the Canadian dollar climbs is when the US stumbles. We are getting our feet back.
Be afraid, Winnipeg, be very afraid. Once the markets right themselves, and reality sinks in, you will be paying ~23% more than Tampa Bay for the same caliber players. Couple that with the insane ticket prices that are being thrown out there (are you guys *seriously* going to sustain a ticket price that is second or third highest in the league – and even then gate revenue will only fund up to the cap *floor* considering your limited arena?) and the recipe for failure just gets clearer and clearer.
Don’t get me wrong… I don’t want hockey to fail anywhere. It needs to grow. I can’t think of a sport that has the intensity and the speed that hockey offers. You can’t look away because you are always ½ second away from the next huge goal, miracle save, or punishing hit. Nothing else compares. So… good luck, Winnipeg. You are going to need a lot more than a minority billionaire backer sooner than you think. Let’s hope you don’t fall victim to bad decision making by the NHL the same way we have.
But let’s be honest… unless you all buy a new sweater every 5th home game and drink enough beer to sink a battle ship, the money just isn’t there. And if you do have a walk in closet full of Manitoba (insert name here) sweaters and a dialysis machine next to your commemorative beer cups, the best you can do is hope to break even. The league got a lot bigger and a heck of a lot more expensive in the years that have past since 1996.