Is NHL abandoning Thrashers, Atlanta after rescuing others? (UPDATED with Bill Daly Q-and-A)
Gary Bettman was high profile in Atlanta prior to the NHL All-Star Game but not much since.
(UPDATED at 4:50 p.m. after my Q-and-A with NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly. Full transcript follows the column.)
This isn’t to absolve the Atlanta Spirit of responsibility for all this because, as we’ve come to learn, stability and agenda of ownership almost always dictate whether or not a sports franchise succeeds — and the Spirit has long had different agendas for the Hawks and Thrashers.
This certainly isn’t to absolve Don Waddell, the Thrashers’ former long-time general manager and current team president, of responsibility because as the only executive who has been on campus from day one, he had the biggest hand in putting an inferior product on the ice for too many seasons.
But where is the NHL in all this?
Has Gary Bettman, the commissioner, stood at a pulpit on the corner of Marietta and Centennial Olympic Park Drive the way he did in the desert outpost of Glendale, Ariz., and screamed for hockey’s existence in Atlanta (especially given this is a top 10 TV market and Phoenix isn’t)?
Is the league coming to the rescue of a franchise in a desperate situation, the way it did in Buffalo and Nashville and Ottawa and Pittsburgh and even Tampa (Atlanta also is bigger than all of them)?
Atlanta seemingly is in the midst of being dumped on and abandoned by the NHL. Again. The first time was in 1980 when Atlanta Flames owner Tom Cousins needed money for his other business ventures, so he sold the team to a Canadian who moved them to Calgary. The NHL did nothing.
Now Winnipeg is circling the Thrashers. This comes after Bettman pleaded with Phoenix Coyotes fans and local business people to step up, and Glendale – destined to become the most bankrupt city in the United States – committed $25 million a year for up to 10 years to keep the team.
What do we get in Atlanta? Mostly silence — and what has been said is not comforting.
Asked Thursday if he could guarantee the Thrashers would play in Atlanta next season, deputy commissioner Bill Daly responded: “Nope. I can’t guarantee that.”
Daly denies reports that an announcement about the team being sold and moved is imminent: “There is nothing that has been done, nothing has been planned and nothing has been scheduled. Certainly, no transaction has been agreed to, not that I’m aware of.”
But the mere fact that he left the door open says all you need to know.
Daly says the league is doing all it can to keep the NHL in Atlanta. Sorry. I need evidence stronger than noncommittal soundbites. There’s a big difference between the NHL saying it wants a franchise in Atlanta and doing something about it. The league has the hammer to prevent franchise moves but hasn’t swung it, at least not publicly.
The Thrashers intersect with relocation rumors more than they do playoff races. But when this stuff circulated last year, Bettman put the kibosh on it. He told me that the league was “committed” to Atlanta, and considered the market “very important.” He said he believed the Thrashers could overcome their off-ice issues and “ultimately the franchise can be successful.”
He said he expected that one day “the franchise will be in a better place.” Then he laughed, realizing that was a poor choice of words given rumors of a move. “What I mean is, the franchise will be in a better situation,” he added.
Bettman said everything an Atlanta sports fan wanted to hear. He even took the extremely unusual step for a sports commissioner of criticizing an ownership group. (Excerpt: “It’s difficult to operate a franchise when owners aren’t getting along.”) He addressed how the league has come to the aid of struggling franchises in the past, and last week he circled back to those warm-and-fuzzy themes when asked about the potential relocation of the Coyotes, which the league had been operating.
When asked by Yahoo why the NHL is fighting for Phoenix, Bettman responded, “Because we fight hard for every city. … Because we have a covenant with our fans, and our fans need to know that we will stand by them as long as possible and that we don’t just run out.”
Great speech. Not sure how much it carries in terms of substance. I’m getting a visual of water running through a colander.
I’ve stated this before: If the Thrashers are moved, it won’t be because Atlanta failed as an NHL market, it will be because ownership and management failed. Fans can’t be expected to run back and support a product after feeling burned and relatively abused for several years. When fans stay away from a team that misses the playoffs in 10 out of 11 seasons, that doesn’t make them difficult, it makes them smart.
The NHL appears on the verge of making a huge mistake. If other teams feel bad about the Thrashers possibly moving to Winnipeg, they’re not saying.
Maybe they all like the fact the league would get a $60 million relocation fee out of the deal. For $60 million, you can buy a new conscience.
♦
Here’s my Q-and-A with NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly on Thursday:
Q: Where do we stand with the Thrashers?
A: “That’s more a question for [part-owner] Bruce [Levenson} than it is for me. He’s the one working on trying to find new ownership for the franchise. We’ve been working with him closely for a number of years in efforts to sell the franchise. Those efforts are ongoing. But there is nothing that has made sense to this point.”
Q: Can you guarantee the team will be in Atlanta next season?
A: “Nope. I can’t guarantee that.”
Q: So what are the chances of the Thrashers being relocated?
A: “I’m not into handicapping. I’m usually wrong.”
Q: Can you address rumors that a franchise sale and a move to Winnipeg is pretty much done and that an announcement is imminent?
A: “There is nothing that has been done, nothing has been planned and nothing has been scheduled. Certainly, no transaction has been agreed to, not that I’m aware of.”
Q: Have the Thrashers had negotiations with True North?
A: “I wouldn’t comment on that. That’s something you would have to ask the Thrashers about.”
Q: That’s not exactly a denial.
A: “But I would say the same thing even if I knew for a fact that they had not spoken to somebody. It’s not my role to publicly talk to the media about who Bruce Levenson might or might not be talking to.” [Note: Levenson told the AJC on Wednesday: “We are continuing to seek solutions for the Thrashers. I will not comment on any speculation.”]
Q: You and commissioner Gary Bettman both made frequent trips to Phoenix to speak publicly about the Coyotes staying there, but there has been no similar efforts in Atlanta. Why not?
A: “The situations are very different from a host of perspectives, not the least of which are the bankruptcy issues we had [in Phoenix], the fight in bankruptcy court and the league having to purchase the club. There were a unique set of circumstances that required the league’s presence in Glendale. The bottom line is, we owned that club.”
Q: I understand that. But does that preclude you or Gary from coming to Atlanta to show support for the franchise and help the process?
A: “No, of course not. If there was some reasonable sense that a public appeal would move the process along, then something would be done. But we’re not at that point.”
Q: Can you understand why Atlanta hockey fans might feel like the NHL is abandoning them, especially given the league’s silence?
A: “Again, what that opinion lacks is any real information as to what we have been doing over a number of years. There have been efforts to sell the club. We feel it is best that franchises not be relocated and we’ve made a commitment to keep franchises in the marketplace. Everything we’ve done with the Thrashers is consistent with that.”
Q: But not to the point of guaranteeing that they will remain in Atlanta?
A: “Correct.”
Q: You don’t find that response in conflict with Gary saying that the NHL is committed to cities and has a covenant with fans?
A: “No, because as I just tried to explain, nobody really knows exactly what we’ve been doing. But over a course of years, what we’ve done for the Thrashers franchise has been very consistent with what we’ve done for other franchises.”
By Jeff Schultz
♦
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407 comments Add your comment
Pegger
May 12th, 2011
7:46 pm
I wouldn’t get too worried yet. In Winnipeg, we’ve been told a team is coming back for 3-4 years now. We’ve given up taking it seriously.
It is sad that the league has done little for Atlanta so far after all they did for Phoenix. They did NOTHING for the Jets, moved the team as fast as they could.
But like I said, I wouldn’t worry about the team moving. The schedule has to be made in two weeks so no news by then means the Thrashers will be staying next year at least. A lot of people in Winnipeg are so bitter about the NHL they don’t even want a team back.
Sean
May 12th, 2011
7:47 pm
I really can’t see the NHL giving Atlanta another expansion team after Flames and possibly the Thrashers have failed. Also it took twenty years between the Flames leaving and the Thrashers 1st season and in between we had the Atlanta Knights which also moved to Canada. So even if Atlanta got an expansion team there’s no guarentee it would be anytime soon.
Brian
May 12th, 2011
7:48 pm
Thanks Atlanta Spirit Group! Thrashers will now be NHL powerhouses for the next 15 yrs!
JSS
May 12th, 2011
7:49 pm
Jeff Schultz
May 12th, 2011
7:23 pm
“JSS — You’ve never heard from me that there was a legitimate buyer out there.”
Then what happen to the ones camouflaged as a “legitimated ones” then? If there is subterfuge going on, then clue us all in?
Jonathan Holleman
May 12th, 2011
7:52 pm
Tom Glavine has expressed an interest in purchasing the team. His interest in hockey (he had a choice between hockey and baseball), along with his relationship with Ted Turner and some assistance from the league could easily keep the Thrashers in Atlanta. Ownership interest and focus on the team is the key to success. The GM (Rick Dudley) is an extremely valuable asset. He can put together a successful team. A major focus on goaltending and defense is also key. The offensive attack is fine. But it all hinges on keeping the team here. Success will generate TV revenue. Butts in the seats will generate success. Tough economic times will have to lower ticket prices. Creative promotions require the right individual to generate ticket sales. Free parking to weekend games would fill the arena, etc. We need a lot of luck for all this to happen, with the Atlanta Spirit focused on roundball at this critical time.
NHL responds to Thrashers-to-Winnipeg speculation | LiveFlashScore
May 12th, 2011
7:55 pm
[...] Bruce Levenson on several questions about negotiations with potential Winnipeg owner True North.From the AJC, Schultz and Daly:Q: You and commissioner Gary Bettman both made frequent trips to Phoenix to speak publicly about the [...]
Butros
May 12th, 2011
7:58 pm
How many hundreds of millions of dollars will it take for the people of Arizona to say enough is enough? I am sure the NHL is happy to just keep taking the money from all of the unemployed people of Arizona with its close to depression economy.
So, the NHL’s brilliant plan of moving ice hockey from Canada to legendary hockey hotbeds like Arizona and Georgia hasn’t turned out so well. What next? If you follow Bettman’s logic – it goes a bit like this: who cares if the local population even gives a crap about hockey – if you move the game to where there are enough people and a big potential market, all will work out good. What could go wrong with a genius plan like that?
With that logic, let’s move NHL teams to India and China. Do the Chinese like the game – no – never heard of it – but who cares, the potential market is HUGE!
2mins
May 12th, 2011
8:01 pm
People are asking…..So Mr. Bettman and Mr. Daly, where exactly is our help?
I want to know what you expect them to do? The NHL has already said they are not going to buy the Thrashers, because there is no reason to. They only bought the Coyotes to keep it in NHL control because of the bankruptcy, and I don’t see ASG claiming bankruptcy. In fairness, the NHL is doing exactly what they have done for every other city…. They are trying to find and convince someone to buy the team and keep it local, BUT if nobodys buying, its not like Bettman can kidnap someone and force them to buy the team and come up with a lease agreement with ASG.
The only way I see the Thrashers staying and thriving is if someone like the Balkin is in fact a true person, and he/she/them buy all the teams and the building from ASG.
Sean
May 12th, 2011
8:02 pm
The IHL Atlanta Knights proved that you can have successful hockey in Atlanta(Don’t remember why they left) . The problem with the Thrashers is is that they have only made the playoffs once in franchise history.
Puck Headlines: Thrash to Winnipeg update; Damian Goddard firing | | sportsport
May 12th, 2011
8:05 pm
[...] • Jeff Schultz wonders, quite rightfully, where Gary Bettman is to stand with Atlanta Thrashers fans in keeping the team from relocating. "Has Gary Bettman, the commissioner, stood at a pulpit on the corner of Marietta and Centennial Olympic Park Drive the way he did in the desert outpost of Glendale, Ariz., and screamed for hockey’s existence in Atlanta (especially given this is a top 10 TV market and Phoenix isn’t)? Is the league coming to the rescue of a franchise in a desperate situation, the way it did in Buffalo and Nashville and Ottawa and Pittsburgh and even Tampa (Atlanta also is bigger than all of them)?" [AJC] [...]
NHL responds to Thrashers-to-Winnipeg speculation | | sportsport
May 12th, 2011
8:05 pm
[...] From the AJC, Schultz and Daly: Q: You and commissioner Gary Bettman both made frequent trips to Phoenix to speak publicly about the Coyotes staying there, but there has been no similar efforts in Atlanta. Why not? [...]
William
May 12th, 2011
8:08 pm
really????/ who cares…
Dan
May 12th, 2011
8:12 pm
The problem is that no one wants to fight traffic to drive downtown to see a mediocre product in a city that everyone is ashamed and embarrassed about. So many What Ifs. What if public transportation (MARTA) was better. What if the Thrashers put out a better product. What if Atlanta were a city that people were proud of rather then a crime ridden inner city hellhole where there’s virtually nothing to do and the mayor shows no interest in cleaning things up.
Michael S
May 12th, 2011
8:14 pm
Hate to say it folks but the rhetoric coming from the NHL is word for word verbatim of what they said prior to Winnipeg, Quebec City and Hartford relocating.
Andrew
May 12th, 2011
8:17 pm
Did I just read a comment from someone in Atlanta saying one of the reasons they might leave is because Bettman is PRO Canada??? I get that Altanta fans deserve to be upset especially with what has happened in Phoenix, but we all know if the team moves it’s because there were no serious local buyers in the mix and NOT because Bettman is pro Canada.
Dave
May 12th, 2011
8:17 pm
The problem is that no one wants to fight traffic to drive downtown to see a mediocre product in a city that everyone is ashamed and embarrassed about. So many What Ifs. What if public transportation (MARTA) was better. What if the Thrashers put out a better product. What if Atlanta were a city that people were proud of rather then a crime ridden inner city slum where there’s virtually nothing to do and the mayor shows no interest in cleaning things up.
JSS
May 12th, 2011
8:21 pm
And at 8:17 PM the “Northside can solve anything” shows its clueless face….
BobbyG
May 12th, 2011
8:25 pm
update on ESPN within the hour…
Butros
May 12th, 2011
8:26 pm
Yeah Bettman really shows his PRO-Canada stance with his New York accent on the phone from his New York office, moving a Canadian game from Canadian cities to American cities – which accurately characterizes his reign in this league.
News for you folks, Lord Stanley wasn’t an American.
Not a Hockey Fan
May 12th, 2011
8:26 pm
Let’s make this absolutely clear to the NHL. Atlanta does NOT care about the Thrashers. Atlanta does NOT want the Thrashers. Hockey has no business being in the South. The sooner the Thrashers move north (where I’m sure someone wants and will appreciate them) the better, and for goodness sake, haul off with the team all of the jerks who own and manage the team.
To the Thrashers— “YOU’RE FIRED!!!”
Jeff Schultz
May 12th, 2011
8:26 pm
JSS — No idea what you’re talking about.
Jeff Schultz
May 12th, 2011
8:28 pm
Jonathan Holleman — Glavine story overstated. He expressed interest in being a minor part of a group, and he’s a hockey fan, that’s all. He doesn’t have money or desire to be majority owner.
Sean
May 12th, 2011
8:30 pm
“Let’s make this absolutely clear to the NHL. Atlanta does NOT care about the Thrashers. Atlanta does NOT want the Thrashers. Hockey has no business being in the South”
I call bull on that. There are plenty of hockey fans in the city, many have been around since the days of the Flames and Knights and there are also plenty of people who have moved from rust-belt states to Atlanta. Tampa and Carolina have both won Stanley Cups so hockey doesn’t belong in the south?
Butch
May 12th, 2011
8:35 pm
Most of the Thrashers attendance is northerners cheering for their team, not the Thrashers. A lot of this has to do with the poor team not offering much to the cheer for but it also has to do with southerners caring more about college sports more than pro sports. Only recently have the Hawks and Falcons gotten any traction but they have competent management and scouting and are still in the lower half of avg. attendance. The Braves will always be big because there are no other teams within 500 miles but they are in the middle of the MLB in attendance. I guess Atlantans just tend to prefer going to the bar and watching CFB than actually going to games.
Dave
May 12th, 2011
8:39 pm
Jeff – spot on analysis.
I’m in a unique situation – lived in Atlanta, now reside in Winnipeg.
As someone who saw the Jets leave, and left their piggy bank to try and save them 15 years ago, I’d like to say we would welcome the NHL back. It is unfortunate it might happen at the expense of another city since I know what that is like.
From the beginning I cannot fathom how Bettman can say he has done anything to save your franchise compared to the mind boggling theatrics of Phoenix. You guys truly have been put through the ringer and screwed, completely. It’s not fair after what transpired if your team were to move here, not at all. Given Atlanta is a bigger market than Phoenix and is better positioned for a team logistics wise with the arena, Bettman cannot say with a straight face that he has been anywhere close to as dedicated to saving your team.
At the same time we in Winnipeg are getting sick and tired of being held up as potential threats. He’s using us, and it hurts, as much as it does to potentially have your team moved. The NHL has been less than graceful and forthcoming throughout this whole process, and it screams “bush league” to me. Another reason why it will never be like the NFL, Gooddell would never let this happen.
Butros
May 12th, 2011
8:42 pm
Sean,
I appreciate your comments but I would have to respectfully say that I have been to games in 12 NHL cities, including two in the Southern US (not Atlanta admittedly) and there is NO comparing the atmosphere in a game in Canada/Northern US versus the games I saw in Florida and Phoenix. The games in the South were had a few thousand people each and the atmosphere was like a morgue. It was sad really to see the game I had grown up with in Canada turned into what I saw in the South. Nothing personal – I am betting beach volleyball wouldn’t work in Canada’s Arctic either. The difference is culture. Almost every single Canadian kid grew up playing hockey in a serious way and dreaming they were going to some day win the Stanley Cup. MOST people in the Southern US don’t really seem to care which is understandable because the game is not part of the culture in the South.
Hillbilly Deluxe
May 12th, 2011
8:48 pm
I can remember the days when the Braves were lucky to have 5000 in the stands, (Think the 70’s). For any sports team to succeed at the gate, they have to put a quality product on the field/ice. For the most part, the Thrashers haven’t done that and that falls on the ownership. That can’t be turned around overnight. The fans have lost all faith in ownership but if a quality product is put on the ice, for a reasonable length of time, the fans would come back.
Eternally Grateful
May 12th, 2011
8:54 pm
I am just so grateful for all of the things that I do not know that the NHL is doing for the city of Atlanta.
I guess that is what Bill Daly thinks will get me to go to a game.
Joe Friday
May 12th, 2011
9:11 pm
Bettman says no imminent deal, but doesn’t step up to definitely say we’re staying here, we’re being played here folks:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=6536272
Quicherbichin
May 12th, 2011
9:17 pm
once the team lwaves town we’re done with the NHL. if the Thrashers move to Winnipeg, they can keep everything related to the NHL… i’m done.
Butch
May 12th, 2011
9:20 pm
I have never been to Atlanta
blazerdawg
May 12th, 2011
9:26 pm
LAC- my point about Lysiak was not that he was on the roster when the Flames left, but that in that era he and other Flames were just as well known by average Atlantans as the Hawks were. Lysiak was very popular in Atlanta (Bouchard & Plett moreso), and he led the Flames in scoring for a few years just before they bolted.
dauphine
May 12th, 2011
9:26 pm
You can’t compare Atlanta to Buffalo. Buffalo has a fan base with a waiting list a mile long for season tickets. They actually have a cut off to make sure there are single game tickets available. It may be a small market, but it has southern Ontario and all of Western NY behind it. Atlanta, on the other had doesn’t have a fan base. When one goes to the games, the majority of the team sweaters belong to other NHL franchises. This is not a hockey town, its just a great place to go see your favorite team without paying through the nose. One of my friends commented it was actually cheaper to fly down to Atlanta and watch his team than to even try to get tickets in his home city. We don’t deserve a team, the city never rallied around the Thrashers, but the Thrashers never gave us anything to rally around. Even when they’ve made postseason, it was by default, winning their conference while other teams had better records were shut out of the post season.
blazerdawg
May 12th, 2011
9:29 pm
Q @ 9:17 – agreed 100% – if the NHL does not support Atlanta, then why support them. I’ll never watch any NHL, college, or Olympic hockey again.
Sean
May 12th, 2011
9:30 pm
Butros, Florida hasn’t really been good for a while now but remember when they were in the Cup Finals against Colorado? As I said Tampa and Carolina have both won Stanley Cups and it looks like they have a shot at getting to another Cup Final. I was born after the Flames left but have fond memories of going to Atlanta Knights games back in the 90s and even made it to 1 game of each playoff series the year they won it all. Then they left and i was highly disappointed, there are alot of fans that live in the northern and eastern suburbs of Atlanta. The problem is that other than the year the Thrashers made the playoffs they haven’t really had a quality product on ice and as such attendance has suffered.
Tom Lysiak
May 12th, 2011
9:32 pm
At least the ASG’s little darlings, the Hawks, are losing by 10 at the half. Enjoy the game liars.
Eric
May 12th, 2011
9:40 pm
The Thrashers must stay in Atlanta. We are a hockey city. Rid us of Waddell and the Spirit and we’ll flourish.
GodblessAmerica
May 12th, 2011
9:44 pm
Cletus: Other than being a red-neck with no teeth and the IQ of a one-celled creature, why even post on this board. By the way how many old smelly Dale Earnhardt T-shirts do you own? RED NECK
kovyoverrated
May 12th, 2011
9:50 pm
We knew this was coming, but it is still an awful feeling. I wish all the “Bad JU-JU” on the Atl Spirit. I hope they all wreck on the way home from the Hawks loss tonight.
P. Bull Terrier
May 12th, 2011
9:53 pm
Has anyone heard the rumor that the Atlanta Spirit Group plans to replace Rick Sund as the Hawks GM with Don Waddell, just as soon as they are able to unload the Thrashers on Canada?
Sage of Bluesland
May 12th, 2011
9:58 pm
Will this FINALLY convince some of you sheep to STOP throwing your money away???
(If this doesn’t, nothing will. How pitiful and sad!)
Sam
May 12th, 2011
9:58 pm
WHY THE F*CK DOES WINNIPEG LEVERAGE SO MUCH CLOUT, AS TO STEAL ANOTHER CITY’S FRANCHISE? SERIOUSLY!
Dale Sawchuk
May 12th, 2011
10:03 pm
We have a arena,we have the richest man in Canada and we have fans. Don’t forget we are born and raised palying hockey up here.There are over 300 indoor and outdoor hockey rinks in Winnipeg alone with a population of 750,000 people.
One and Done
May 12th, 2011
10:04 pm
WTF is this cloak and dagger routine. Thrashers are gone on this 20 questions sheot.
thesawch
May 12th, 2011
10:08 pm
At least if they leave they will being going to somewhere where they will be loved and idolized. In Canada if you are aNHL player you can’t walk down the street without people asking for autographs etc. Do not hateWinnipeg, Canada or the thrashers. Blame Gary Bettman for all this KAOS!!
One and Done
May 12th, 2011
10:09 pm
I called Bruce Levinson and he said ‘DEAL WITH IT” and hung up the phone.
Lew39
May 12th, 2011
10:10 pm
Dale with all that hockey is that why the Jet’s left? I can only hope you have to take the current AH owners with you
One and Done
May 12th, 2011
10:11 pm
The only problem with Winnepeg is no one wants to play there. Further, the current roster would wilt under any criticism. The would get their feelings hurt.
Lew39
May 12th, 2011
10:14 pm
I am a season ticket holder and all my rep cares about is the Hawks, mazybe if the hawks threatened to leave the city would help by supplementing the loss. this local government could care less about hockey
Hip Check in Decatur
May 12th, 2011
10:19 pm
In the north, we watched football then move on to hockey. The same can happen down here. I’m tired of “the fans didn’t support it” lines from people who really don’t have any interest. We did support it – fans and corporate sponsors. Many want the game here; unfortunately, the NHL approved an ownership group who had no intention of running a strong franchise. There is plenty of market research to prove a team can be successful in this town – whether its as a fan coming to watch an original hometown or as a fan newly interested in hockey.