Is NHL abandoning Thrashers, Atlanta after rescuing others? (UPDATED with Bill Daly Q-and-A)
Gary Bettman was high profile in Atlanta prior to the NHL All-Star Game but not much since.
(UPDATED at 4:50 p.m. after my Q-and-A with NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly. Full transcript follows the column.)
This isn’t to absolve the Atlanta Spirit of responsibility for all this because, as we’ve come to learn, stability and agenda of ownership almost always dictate whether or not a sports franchise succeeds — and the Spirit has long had different agendas for the Hawks and Thrashers.
This certainly isn’t to absolve Don Waddell, the Thrashers’ former long-time general manager and current team president, of responsibility because as the only executive who has been on campus from day one, he had the biggest hand in putting an inferior product on the ice for too many seasons.
But where is the NHL in all this?
Has Gary Bettman, the commissioner, stood at a pulpit on the corner of Marietta and Centennial Olympic Park Drive the way he did in the desert outpost of Glendale, Ariz., and screamed for hockey’s existence in Atlanta (especially given this is a top 10 TV market and Phoenix isn’t)?
Is the league coming to the rescue of a franchise in a desperate situation, the way it did in Buffalo and Nashville and Ottawa and Pittsburgh and even Tampa (Atlanta also is bigger than all of them)?
Atlanta seemingly is in the midst of being dumped on and abandoned by the NHL. Again. The first time was in 1980 when Atlanta Flames owner Tom Cousins needed money for his other business ventures, so he sold the team to a Canadian who moved them to Calgary. The NHL did nothing.
Now Winnipeg is circling the Thrashers. This comes after Bettman pleaded with Phoenix Coyotes fans and local business people to step up, and Glendale – destined to become the most bankrupt city in the United States – committed $25 million a year for up to 10 years to keep the team.
What do we get in Atlanta? Mostly silence — and what has been said is not comforting.
Asked Thursday if he could guarantee the Thrashers would play in Atlanta next season, deputy commissioner Bill Daly responded: “Nope. I can’t guarantee that.”
Daly denies reports that an announcement about the team being sold and moved is imminent: “There is nothing that has been done, nothing has been planned and nothing has been scheduled. Certainly, no transaction has been agreed to, not that I’m aware of.”
But the mere fact that he left the door open says all you need to know.
Daly says the league is doing all it can to keep the NHL in Atlanta. Sorry. I need evidence stronger than noncommittal soundbites. There’s a big difference between the NHL saying it wants a franchise in Atlanta and doing something about it. The league has the hammer to prevent franchise moves but hasn’t swung it, at least not publicly.
The Thrashers intersect with relocation rumors more than they do playoff races. But when this stuff circulated last year, Bettman put the kibosh on it. He told me that the league was “committed” to Atlanta, and considered the market “very important.” He said he believed the Thrashers could overcome their off-ice issues and “ultimately the franchise can be successful.”
He said he expected that one day “the franchise will be in a better place.” Then he laughed, realizing that was a poor choice of words given rumors of a move. “What I mean is, the franchise will be in a better situation,” he added.
Bettman said everything an Atlanta sports fan wanted to hear. He even took the extremely unusual step for a sports commissioner of criticizing an ownership group. (Excerpt: “It’s difficult to operate a franchise when owners aren’t getting along.”) He addressed how the league has come to the aid of struggling franchises in the past, and last week he circled back to those warm-and-fuzzy themes when asked about the potential relocation of the Coyotes, which the league had been operating.
When asked by Yahoo why the NHL is fighting for Phoenix, Bettman responded, “Because we fight hard for every city. … Because we have a covenant with our fans, and our fans need to know that we will stand by them as long as possible and that we don’t just run out.”
Great speech. Not sure how much it carries in terms of substance. I’m getting a visual of water running through a colander.
I’ve stated this before: If the Thrashers are moved, it won’t be because Atlanta failed as an NHL market, it will be because ownership and management failed. Fans can’t be expected to run back and support a product after feeling burned and relatively abused for several years. When fans stay away from a team that misses the playoffs in 10 out of 11 seasons, that doesn’t make them difficult, it makes them smart.
The NHL appears on the verge of making a huge mistake. If other teams feel bad about the Thrashers possibly moving to Winnipeg, they’re not saying.
Maybe they all like the fact the league would get a $60 million relocation fee out of the deal. For $60 million, you can buy a new conscience.
♦
Here’s my Q-and-A with NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly on Thursday:
Q: Where do we stand with the Thrashers?
A: “That’s more a question for [part-owner] Bruce [Levenson} than it is for me. He’s the one working on trying to find new ownership for the franchise. We’ve been working with him closely for a number of years in efforts to sell the franchise. Those efforts are ongoing. But there is nothing that has made sense to this point.”
Q: Can you guarantee the team will be in Atlanta next season?
A: “Nope. I can’t guarantee that.”
Q: So what are the chances of the Thrashers being relocated?
A: “I’m not into handicapping. I’m usually wrong.”
Q: Can you address rumors that a franchise sale and a move to Winnipeg is pretty much done and that an announcement is imminent?
A: “There is nothing that has been done, nothing has been planned and nothing has been scheduled. Certainly, no transaction has been agreed to, not that I’m aware of.”
Q: Have the Thrashers had negotiations with True North?
A: “I wouldn’t comment on that. That’s something you would have to ask the Thrashers about.”
Q: That’s not exactly a denial.
A: “But I would say the same thing even if I knew for a fact that they had not spoken to somebody. It’s not my role to publicly talk to the media about who Bruce Levenson might or might not be talking to.” [Note: Levenson told the AJC on Wednesday: “We are continuing to seek solutions for the Thrashers. I will not comment on any speculation.”]
Q: You and commissioner Gary Bettman both made frequent trips to Phoenix to speak publicly about the Coyotes staying there, but there has been no similar efforts in Atlanta. Why not?
A: “The situations are very different from a host of perspectives, not the least of which are the bankruptcy issues we had [in Phoenix], the fight in bankruptcy court and the league having to purchase the club. There were a unique set of circumstances that required the league’s presence in Glendale. The bottom line is, we owned that club.”
Q: I understand that. But does that preclude you or Gary from coming to Atlanta to show support for the franchise and help the process?
A: “No, of course not. If there was some reasonable sense that a public appeal would move the process along, then something would be done. But we’re not at that point.”
Q: Can you understand why Atlanta hockey fans might feel like the NHL is abandoning them, especially given the league’s silence?
A: “Again, what that opinion lacks is any real information as to what we have been doing over a number of years. There have been efforts to sell the club. We feel it is best that franchises not be relocated and we’ve made a commitment to keep franchises in the marketplace. Everything we’ve done with the Thrashers is consistent with that.”
Q: But not to the point of guaranteeing that they will remain in Atlanta?
A: “Correct.”
Q: You don’t find that response in conflict with Gary saying that the NHL is committed to cities and has a covenant with fans?
A: “No, because as I just tried to explain, nobody really knows exactly what we’ve been doing. But over a course of years, what we’ve done for the Thrashers franchise has been very consistent with what we’ve done for other franchises.”
By Jeff Schultz
♦
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407 comments Add your comment
Joe Johnson
May 12th, 2011
2:43 pm
It’s George Bush’s fault……..
SC Ace
May 12th, 2011
2:44 pm
And can you imagine that you’ve signed a contract to ply your trade through the winter months in Atlanta, only to be told you have to relocate to dadgum Winnipeg? Good Lord… how many of us would want to do that?
LAC
May 12th, 2011
2:46 pm
Jeff, again I SALUTE you for telling it like it is at AJC, something that chris whatever, has NEVER done. I too wonder where Bettman is ???? Why would he fight tooth and nail for Phoenix and
assist other cities, but turn his back on Atlanta?????
I just wonder, if in the next few days, we hear this true north crowd has paid Atlanta STUPID Group, $200 million and the NHL $60 and Thrashers are, like the Flames a victim of A$$HOLE Owners, NOT the fans, A Solid owner would end up making it work here, But… Where are they ???
Heath
May 12th, 2011
2:49 pm
Maybe if they leave the Atlanta Knights will come back. They were a GOOD hockey team. Entertaining, cared about the fans. What a concept.
@ TinCup9
May 12th, 2011
2:50 pm
We have been begging leaders, including the Mayor, to step up:
http://www.keepthethrashers.com/videokeepthrashersATL.html
LAC
May 12th, 2011
2:50 pm
blazerdawg, Tom Lysiak, Was traded to Chicago a year and a half before the Flames left town and was a Chicago Blackhawk when the Flames moved, Not an Atlanta Flame.
schmeckdawg
May 12th, 2011
2:51 pm
Thrashers suck…bring back the Atlanta Flames…they rocked!!!!!!
Pasi's Posse
May 12th, 2011
2:53 pm
“More page-view pandering to the passionate,” he said with a slight attempt at alliteration.
docsbro
May 12th, 2011
2:54 pm
Good article Jeff!! Thank you for giving a little perspective to this. It is sad I grew up with the Flames and LOVE hockey, but this would be the last straw for me. There are plenty of people willing to support a franchise with a real chance to make the playoffs(I think everyone knew there where “smoke and mirrors” in last years early run). I really have a hard time supporting the clowns of ASG as well…too much ill will!!
William Satterwhite
May 12th, 2011
2:57 pm
SC Ace, any potential owner willing to pay for an expansion franchise (if future expansion is even a possibility) would be better off just buying the team now. An expansion franchise would cost much more than the $110 million price that has been put out there as the price for the team to stay here. If the Thrashers leave, NHL hockey is pretty much done in Atlanta.
Josh
May 12th, 2011
3:04 pm
There are three factors working against the Thrashers here, and I don’t think they can overcome them.
1) It costs too much to go to a Thrashers game. For the price of nosebleed seats at Phillips, I can get 3rd row centre ice at a Gladiators Game
2) The lockout annoyed a lot of fans, myself included.
3) The Gladiators are putting a good team on the ice.
I really want to be a Thrashers fan. I went to several games up to the lockout. after that, it really lost its lustre. it was obvious to me that the NHL didn’t care about it’s product, and it’s hard to sympathize with players making that kind of money. I know that the Glads are minor league, but it’s fun to watch. it’s cheap enough I can take the family, and I don’t have to fight my way downtown to go watch a game.
I
Matt from MN
May 12th, 2011
3:05 pm
Gary Bettman is a tool. ASG has taken over for Time Warner and driven this franchise right into the ground. The fans are NOT to blame for the years of incompetent ownership and management. The 3rd “Five Year Plan” is currently in force. A pox on all of their houses!
ben
May 12th, 2011
3:05 pm
maybe they don’t know what’s going to happen because ASG has different sets of books, and they’re trying to get to the bottom of what’s real. no way are the hawks rolling in dough and the t-birds are losing money. and if there truly are only 2,000 households watching hockey in an area of 5.3 million, then i’ve got a bridge in brooklyn i want to show you.
maybe the team moves to an area with less people than Fulton County for a short-term payoff for the owners, but the reality is, hardly any serious person actually feels that it’ll be in Winnepegg long if it goes. sure, they’ll pack em into the rafters the first 3 years maybe more, and then it’ll dawn on folks that they’re paying $100 for a family of four to see Ahl level talent. that’s the truth.
if this team goes i’ll be mad for a minute. I’ll be depressed about it for a while. I might even follow them for a while, but i’ll move on. I want the thrashers to stay, i really do, and i’m not convinced that it’s over between us and the nhl if they do move. run propperly, this would be a great hockey town. to say it’s a bad sports town isn’t all the way accurate. Atlantans have a show me attitude about winning. you win, and they’ll come, next year.
Atlanta Spirit Sucks
May 12th, 2011
3:06 pm
Don Waddell has been little more than a paid whore doing and saying anything the Spirit Clowns have told him to do or say.
Waddell has been more interested in keeping his cushy job with a cushy paycheck than show any once of pride in the his field of endeavor.
I would love for a reporter to ask Waddell the following, “Don all those times you told the season ticket holders at Towne Hall Meetings that the team wasn’t for sale, were you lying or did the Spirit Clowns lie to you.”
While the Spirit Clowns have owned the Thrashers and Hawks, the Hawks payroll has risen around 40 million dollars while the Thrashers payroll has only risen about 5 million dollars.
With this in mind, how could anyone with an IQ above 80 really think the Atlanta Spirit gives a crap about hockey?
preacher
May 12th, 2011
3:08 pm
I used to be a damn near preacher before the Thrashers came to town. But while watching their poor, lazy ass efforts, I cussed my way into sin. Maybe I can get back on the righteous path if they leave.
Willie Boy
May 12th, 2011
3:08 pm
Jeff, looking back to the days of Boom Boom and the Flames road show.The Atl fans cheered when the players passed the puck! Then in the “City too busy to hate ” how could you forget the first Flames maylay bench clearing brawl at Center Ice! Wow -These white boys from up North!! The business plan did not work. So years later they tear down the Omni and build Phillips Arena and here are the Thrashers! The 12u Church league Roller Hockey Teams were more likely to sell out the Phillips especially if they lowered the beer prices! Finally, probably One of the owners among the Keystone cops ASG quit drinking the Kool-Aid and said Enough with the NHL,ATL,ETC. just like the smart and well respected T.G.Cousins. Thanks I enjoy all your sports columns
r breen
May 12th, 2011
3:15 pm
Atlanta fans i feel your pain. Being from Winnipeg and going through the same thing 15 years ago, I truly hope you keep your team as you are more than entitled to than Phoenix. Bettman couldn’t move the Jets out of town fast enough. If Bettman can’t support you Thrasher fans the same as he did for Coyote fans then i personally don’t want anything to do with the NHL or Gary Bettman here in Winnipeg.
The Real Thrash
May 12th, 2011
3:18 pm
The city has had two hockey teams, unlike other cities.
The latest is not very good. May be better with real owners somewhere else.
Do NOT want to see them go but with all the people with money in this town if no one wants to own them who;s fault is that?
Dana Blankenhorn
May 12th, 2011
3:31 pm
I don’t know how the Atlanta Spirit can make a go of things owning just the arena and the Hawks. I don’t think the numbers work at all. Which means those assets will also have to be sold, and I don’t see buyers lining up for them, either.
bettman is a candy ace
May 12th, 2011
3:33 pm
Gary Bettman is a joke. He over-expanded the league and now he’s constantly having to deal with the consequences of doing that.
Madhi19
May 12th, 2011
3:35 pm
Bettman is nobody mastermind he does what the owners tell him to do and I got a feeling the owners really don’t want to own more than one team. Phoenix was a major Charlie Foxtrot for the league and it sobered their willingness to throw good money at bad money. If they can find another sucker to milk they will but if there was any left Gary would have unloaded Phoenix by now.
Fols
May 12th, 2011
3:35 pm
Nobody is paying attention to the Thrashers during the Falcons season, then everyone switches over to the Hawks until the entire state falls in love with the Braves. If the Braves are only getting 16,000 on their home games right now………you have to admit…………the future does not look bright for hockey. The closest fight they have is with the NBA and the Hawks are a winning team. Thrashers are just buried a little deep on the depth chart in Atlanta. Save em all you want, they’ll never get the attention hockey deserves.
Smoothie
May 12th, 2011
3:38 pm
Great job Schultzie! Echos the sentiments I expressed in my blog entry in which I wrote a letter to Mr. Bettman. In it I raised many of the same points and I must give you a firm tip of the cap for the quotes you pulled out of GB last Feb as I used a couple of them to underline one of my salient points. If you get the chance, I’d love it if you took the time to read: http://tiny.cc/0t3zm
Thanks and let’s make this work Atlanta! The Thrashers are worthy of being salvaged and this market CAN work with the right ownership, ahem, The Balkan that is, in charge calling the shots.
contraction and reduce playoffs
May 12th, 2011
3:38 pm
The NHL needs to contract down to 24 teams and have only the top 4 from each conference make the playoffs. Make the season more meaningful and reduce the long, drawn out playoff process.
And the NBA would be well served to do something similar.
Nate
May 12th, 2011
3:40 pm
Thanks Jeff for submitting an article that sums up the majority opinion from the diehard Thraher fans like myself. I’m glad it’s out there for all to read.
Me
May 12th, 2011
3:40 pm
One of the problems facing this team is support from the media for the entire sport. I can’t count how many times I’ve opening the AJC to read about the playoff race and find a small paragraph buried on the 8th page. And it’s the playoffs! Granted, the team is less than stellar, but it takes more than that. It takes an agressive marketing of the players as fan-friendly (something the NFL and NBA can’t claim) and involved in the community. It takes a supportive media who will talk about the team AND the other teams in the league. Even when a home team is doing poorly, fans will buy a ticket to see Alexander Ovechkin or Danny Briere tear up the ice. The ownership is the main problem. But if the media doesn’t support the sport, do stories about the sport, and show what’s actually going on with the league instead of the thousandth article on what the Bulldogs ate for breakfast, then Mr. Bettman might care about Atlanta.
oldmike
May 12th, 2011
3:40 pm
Honestly I’ve wondered why both the NHL and NBA league offices don’t take over the franchises from the ASG. If you can’t spend you can’t compete. And if you can’t spend you can’t hire effectively which has been the bane of both ASG teams. This should be a plus market for both sports with all the transplants – myself included. As weird as Hockey in Atlanta sounds at times Hockey in Phoenix and Tampa and Sunrise is even weirder. Do something guys!
USMC dawg
May 12th, 2011
3:41 pm
“Is NHL abandoning Thrashers, Atlanta after rescuing others?”
See Ya:-)
PMC
May 12th, 2011
3:49 pm
So, say they go to winnepeg and lose horribly for 10 of 11 years…. and in that one out of the decade plus of absolutely horrid hockey…. they get swept in the playoffs….
are people going to whine that Winnepeg is a bad sports city and that’s why they just don’t support the team?
PMC
May 12th, 2011
3:50 pm
The idea that it can’t work here is ridiculous. It’s working in freaking TAMPA and Raleigh.
This team has had incompetent front office leadership from the word go.
It’s a good thing for Don Waddell he’s not Japanese.
iTiSi
May 12th, 2011
3:50 pm
If there’s a city that needs to be abandoned by the NHL it’s Nashville. A town that is doing its best to replace Atlanta as “Losersville”.
Jets sucked thats why they left
May 12th, 2011
3:52 pm
If I see one more of you Winnipeg morons on here trying to remind us that they should rename our team the Jets.
Duhhh we love hockey even bad hockey! duhhhh win we don’t care if they win just want to make sure I get home for my curling! Duhhhhh sorry take off you hoser!
fanofsquash....
May 12th, 2011
3:52 pm
the flames left atlanta????????
JoshuaPrayedFervently
May 12th, 2011
3:55 pm
Another dire situation for the NHL. I think Thrashers are on the move most likely Winnipeg. On the other hand Yotes still not in a safe harbour I see Quebec waiting to knock at Bettmans doors in a years time maybe sooner. And for anyone suggesting K.C. … there is only one team that would ever move there just take the 70 East; the Blues are for sale and the K.C. arena looks mighty nice.
Firesale
May 12th, 2011
3:55 pm
Man am I going to be sad and mad if the thrashers get shipped out of atlanta. If this happens our kids will get to fill the same pain we felt when the flames left, but when they grow up there kids they will never see a nhl team in altanta. Please save the thrashers!!!!!
ozzfest
May 12th, 2011
3:58 pm
Any chance they will take the Carruthers with them when they leave?
Steve-0
May 12th, 2011
3:59 pm
Bettman didn’t support the teams in Winnipeg, Hartford, or Quebec either. They left. They’re all also “hockey markets” where as we are not. I’d love for the team to stay, but quite frankly our paltry attendance and TV ratings don’t indicate that we deserve for that to happen.
canuck2011
May 12th, 2011
3:59 pm
aw..boo hoo. fact remains, no one wants to buy the team and keep it in Atlanta. suck it up big boys.
Cletus
May 12th, 2011
4:06 pm
This is the South and no one cares about lame hockey except for transplanted Northerners. I am glad to see it go…again
Dean
May 12th, 2011
4:07 pm
While I like most of your article I don’t agree at all with you’re statement
“When fans stay away from a team that misses the playoffs in 10 out of 11 seasons, that doesn’t make them difficult, it makes them smart.”
If people are only showing up when their winning then they’re not fans. If the market is good fans will show up no matter what and if they don’t show up to support the team its tough for a team to spend more money to bring in better talent to compete.
Glenn
May 12th, 2011
4:08 pm
Once Winnipeg gets its franchise back I expect Quebec City & Hartford to get theirs back as well . Those places all drew better than most teams in the southeast . They have ice and play the sport . The problem is as more people migrate south the more disenfranchised they become from the things they left . I grew up an Islander fan . So what ?
Ryan
May 12th, 2011
4:09 pm
You seemed to make a lot of the size of the Atlanta market as opposed to the other franchises that the NHL has worked hard to save. But, it seems that size really doesn’t matter. Atlanta (which you so proudly labeled a top 10 TV market) finished 29TH in local TV ratings. I don’t care how many people live in the city, if you can’t get them to turn on the TV in the middle of winter, which I realize is like 60 degrees down there, then you seem to be suffering from severe lack of interest. So it’s not that the league is hanging you out to dry, it seems to be that you’re dangling in the wind and nobody cares. When Pittsburgh was facing relocation in 2006-07, one of the major reasons the NHL took a stand was the way the local fans stepped up to support the team. Now, Pittsburgh #1 in TV ratings. Numbers don’t lie. People don’t care if there’s an NHL team in Atlanta or not.
Ratings: http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2011/04/18/Media/NHL-RSN-ratings.aspx
KLS1
May 12th, 2011
4:12 pm
Bettman, please say something so we can get back to pounding on the ASG!
These guys are class acts, they think they can dismbowel one franchise and then run another one successfully in the same town? I don’t think so.
Us fans are coming for you ASG, you can’t win. Sell all 3 entities and leave town immediately…or you can just sell the hockey team to canada and wait a few more years for us to drain the pennies you have left from running an empty arena and paying off year 7 of the Joe Johnson contract.
You will lose and I will enjoy it…scumbags.
Toni
May 12th, 2011
4:15 pm
Thank you so much for asking something that desperately needed to be brought up. I saw on twitter that Daly gave you an interview, so it appears as though this was a success. Should be interesting to hear what he has to say.
JSS
May 12th, 2011
4:15 pm
“Upfronts” roll outs are next week, going to the Big City! Look, we were promised that there were legitimate buyers for the Thrashers. Now, I’ve heard nothing from the snake Kincade, the beat writer, or you on what has happened to those possibilities? What happened?
The NHL has staked their ground, the new TV package has no 4 letter savior raining money and shared revenue riches on them… So many so-called Thrashers fans wanted to force this team to be a Northside entity, they got their wish… Now it is going to an even further “Northside entity,” all the way in Manitoba!
the Islanders are a joke of a franchise
May 12th, 2011
4:16 pm
Ah, the Islanders…there’s a franchise that needs to go. Pathetic and I mean PATHETIC fan support.
Hoofty
May 12th, 2011
4:17 pm
Jeff,
While a well written piece, Atlanta is just not a hockey town. In coming from Philadelphia, the Eagles are the kings of the town, with the exception of a Phillies pennant race, from August to February. That being said, the Flyers still sell out games and are still discussed on sports talk radio. I listen 680 and 790 and they may have Thrasher updates, but there is not a lot of audience participation when it comes to Thrasher discussions.
I have been to Thrasher games for the Flyers and the Penguins. The most recent in March when the Thrashers still had an outside shot at making the playoffs. While the game was at Blueland, it was an away game for the Thrashers. As you point to in your column, ownership needs to develop and cultivate the Thrasher brand and the relationship between the Thrashers and their fans. They need to build a tradition with their fans.
If not, all will be lost, but will it be missed?
Brian30101
May 12th, 2011
4:19 pm
The attendence would increase if the Thrashers played in North Fulton. More week night tickets would be sold if the drive home was right there. The amphitheater up there sells out weeknight concerts that Lakewood never could.
JoshuaPrayedFervently
May 12th, 2011
4:20 pm
You could put a NHL team in Beijing China, big TV market but if the interest for hockey is noty there … . There are dedicated fans in the ATL area but not enough, same in Phoenix, Hockey is a way of life in the Great White North, you have population density in the South but if the people don’t wnat to spent money on NHL hockey you can’t force them. Winnipeg and Quebec would have a higher amount of local supporters for a NHL franchise plus higher ticket prices, better CDN Dollar … . Right now NHL in Canada makes sense if the Dollar stays close to par or above NHL finances make sense in Canada.
Glackie Jeason
May 12th, 2011
4:21 pm
Did they move yet?