How long should Braves stick with McLouth hitting second?
The Braves' Nate McLouth already has struck out five times in four games batting second. (AP photo)
The first four games of a 162-game season doesn’t represent a scientific sampling. But this is the way things are tilting for the Braves regarding the team’s four biggest question marks heading into the year:
♦ 1. Chipper Jones (his health and swing): Thumbs up. He is hitting .353 (6 for 17) with two doubles and two RBI. His impressive spring was not an aberration.
♦ 2. Craig Kimbrel (replacing Billy Wagner as closer): Thumbs up. The 23-year-old has two saves in two appearances, striking out five of the six batters he has faced.
♦ 3. Defense (poor last year): Thumbs up. Only one error (on pitcher Tommy Hanson), two double plays and a majors-best .993 team fielding percentage in four games. Last season, the Braves’ 126 errors trailed only Pittsburgh and Washington (127 each) for the most in baseball.
♦ 4. Nate McLouth: Thumbs down.
So here’s the problem, if we can call it a problem after four games. McLouth had a solid spring and won the starting center field job over Jordan Schafer, who was optioned to Triple-A Gwinnett. The job is McLouth’s for the foreseeable future.
The question is where to bat McLouth in the order. Manager Fredi Gonzalez has started him in the No. 2 spot, believing his speed would be an asset and his offensive problems were sufficiently straightened out.
But the reviews so far aren’t good. McLouth went 1 for 4 in Monday’s win over Milwaukee, which is fine. But he also struck out twice, which a No. 2 hitter can’t do. Success in that spot of the order is predicated on the batter making contact and advancing the runner. So far this season, McLouth is 3 for 16 (.188) with a team-high five strikeouts and one walk. He’s also 0 for 1 in stolen base attempts. (McLouth did score three times in an 11-2 win at Washington.)
The question is: How long will Gonzalez stick with McLouth? There’s an obvious viable option in Jason Heyward, who is batting sixth and is off to a good start (4 for 12) with a home run, two RBI, four walks and a team-best on-base percentage of .500.
Heyward has a better chance to drive in more runs hitting sixth. But he’ll get to the plate more often hitting second, which theoretically makes the Braves a bigger offensive threat.
Gonzalez isn’t likely to make any change soon. The question is how long does he stick with McLouth batting second?
Do you have any confidence McLouth will find a groove? Or should Gonzalez just go ahead and make the change now?
Plan for Tuesday: Driving to Augusta to cover Tiger Woods’ press conference.
By Jeff Schultz
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259 comments Add your comment
GoBraves!
April 5th, 2011
10:22 am
He scored 4 runs in 4 games. Give him another week or two. If he stops scoring move him down to 7th or 8th. If he doesn’t hit above .240 after a month, they should not start him for a while to get him off the pressure. The way people vilify him, which isn’t unprovoked after last year, it would be better for his psyche. He’s not a problem as long as they win. Once they start losing he’ll be the first to go even if he’s not the worst player at that time. He’s still a Brave and everybody on the team wants him to succeed. Give him a chance as long as they can afford. If he can’t capitalize this opportunity then he can’t blame but himself.
eric the elder
April 5th, 2011
10:27 am
Four games is not a large sample, but the prospects don’t seem good. I wish we would see more bunt attempts for hits, and especially when moving a runner over would be helpful.
I think McLouth disguises a bigger problem – - the lack of a true leadoff hitter. Marteen is wonderful, but I fantasize about him in the 2-hole. His ability to hit to all fields, and with some power, would be ideal.
On strike
April 5th, 2011
10:32 am
Have refused to watch a game with McLouth .100 hitter in this line-up. Any rookie would make the team better.
K.C. Frenchy
April 5th, 2011
10:33 am
He should be batting leadoff to start with, but give him say 2 months & then see where hes at, how long has the AJC given you Schultzie??? As Hogan Heroes would say, Schultz: You Know Nothing!!!!
enz
April 5th, 2011
10:34 am
How about we don’t jump to conclusions after four games out of 162 games. How about that?
Sonny Clusters
April 5th, 2011
10:39 am
We was thinking that speed doesn’t make any difference if you’re never on base. McLouth may be the fastest back to the dugout but a slower guy who can make contact might be better. A faster guy who can hit would be best but we are busy right now with 2nd shift.
eric the elder
April 5th, 2011
10:40 am
Like many, I’m prepared to give Nate more time, but where is the much touted new aggressiveness we heard about? If you can’t get good pitches to hit with Chipper batting behind you, when will you?
Ralph
April 5th, 2011
10:44 am
One game in the standings could determine if we make the playoffs even if that one game is in April, ACT NOW!
Ralph
April 5th, 2011
10:52 am
Wren went into this season with the mandate that McOut is our center fielder like it or not, i’m sure Fredi would rather have someone else.
jfreak
April 5th, 2011
10:59 am
Give the guy a break! If after a month McLouth isn’t hitting .250 or better then talk to me but right now I wouldn’t worry about it too much. I like McLouth and loved the way he carried himself during a very difficult year last year. I wishing him a well and hope he has a solid season.
Go Braves!
Pierson Brave
April 5th, 2011
11:15 am
How about this? Only the people who know how to spell Nate McLouth correctly get to bash him. You dolts that rant about the guy having a (another) slow start look ignorant when you misspell the guys name. For Pete’s sake it’s spelled out for you at the top of the blog posting!
DCBrave33
April 5th, 2011
11:15 am
While I agree that McClouth could struggle and force a move at some point, but I also understand the value of extending the lineup deeper down the line. Right now, unless Freeman shows that he can provide serious value down at the bottom, you cant switch Heyward and McClouth. That would give us McClouth, Gonzalez (somewhat powerful, but with obvious, pitchable holes) and an unproven Freeman at the bottom of the order. All of a sudden, the middle of our order is getting pitched around and a majority of our chances to score could be dependent on McClouth and/or Gonzalez being productive.
I think you try as hard as you can to make McClouth stick at #2, and if he doesn’t, hopefully Freeman can show that he is capable of hitting in that spot and we can find room in the middle of the order for Heyward. That is where he belongs. He should be #3 or 4, not #2. Why not switch McCann and Heyward? McCanns lack of foot speed doesnt allow him to move around on some of the hits by Uggla and Heyward, so why not put him after those guys to keep him from potentially clogging the bases? It keeps the left-right-left setup that is neccessary to keep the lineup somewhat balanced as well. Does anyone agree? No offense to Mac, it is just a compliment to the team that we have #4 hole capable hitters that are in the #6 spot. In no way should that offend Mac.
thoughts?
Bob the Blogger
April 5th, 2011
11:15 am
I would give McLouth about 15 games total to show some signs of being over last year’s problems. If he still looks lost, move him to 8th. I think there would be less pressure on him batting 8th than 2nd, although he would not see as many fastballs. If he continued to flounder there, give Matt Young a shot – he has proven himself repeatedly in the minors and in winter ball.
DCBrave33
April 5th, 2011
11:17 am
Dang, after all this talk of misspelling his name, I did the same thing. Sorry!!! McLouth! Duhhhh!!!
He is going to be fine. He will turn it around and at the very least be respectable.
goski99
April 5th, 2011
11:18 am
seems to me they are 3-1…let the manager manage.
DCBrave33
April 5th, 2011
11:20 am
The idea of Matt Young is also something that could have merit. If McLouth can’t get it done, young could be the type of player, based on his minors #’s, that could play center and actually occupy the lead-off spot. That could allow Prado to hit #2. Always a possibility of McLouth does indeed struggle for a longer (much much longer) period of time.
Curt
April 5th, 2011
11:20 am
McLouth’s swing is not right for someone hitting in the 2 hole. He has too long of a swing and tends to want to pull the ball plus his natrual tendency is towards swinging free and not taking pitches. You can see McLouth trying to figure out iof he should bunt, pull or go oposite field. Which means he is thinking too much.
Looking down the line up to anyone who couold move into the spot: Heyward has the same issues as McLouth (though he makes contact me often), Freeman is a power guy and needs to stay where he is. Gonzalez has a poor eye, is too impatient and has no speed speed.
The conclusion at this point is to keep McLouth hitting second and try to get him to relax and at the same time make some changes. I would give him another two weeks and then start platooning him to try and find someone who can fill the spot.
Who? any and everyone on the bench and in the minors.
Kevin Banks
April 5th, 2011
11:33 am
Uggla also only has 3 hits. Should we move him back too? A little patience seems to be in order all around.
JSS
April 5th, 2011
11:40 am
The two smelly armpits of Calcutta (The Squirrel Molester and BugKiller) blogging in the same blog… Will the horror never end?
Prado’s OBP is .263, McLouth is .278. Martin is hitting the ball hard; but he’s still making outs. Don’t panic. In two weeks it might be a problem, but not now…
mp
April 5th, 2011
11:46 am
for those saying, “it’s only been four games, blah, blah, blah . . .” well, what about all daggum last season? i’ve seen enough of his monster uppercut swing in the 2 hole. five strikeouts when you’re supposed to be a reliable tablesetter? not gonna cut it. for the first time in quite awhile i feel as if this line up is pretty solid from top to bottom except for mcclouth. FG–don’t be bobby cox!!! if something doesn’t give soon shake it up. don’t be afraid to do what MUST be done.
crispy
April 5th, 2011
11:47 am
It is not about how many games, it is about how ridiculous it is to bat McClouth 2nd and Heyward 6th, EVER! They are both lefties, so lineup balance has nothing to do with it, and the speed differential is negligible at best, McClouth might steal 20 bags, and Heyward 12. 8 steals are virtually worthless, but the fact that Heyward will get on base 40% of the time in front of chip, mccann, and uggs, where McClouth might get on 35% of the time in front of the same three is a huge drop in run producing opportunities for the middle of the order…and those guys are in the middle for one reason, to drive in runs. I’ll take a black hole at the 6-7 positions with McClouth and Gonzo for the insane stress that our first five can cause for other team’s starters.
Alex
April 5th, 2011
11:47 am
i know for a fact that one of those k’s yesterday was a ball and he got screwed but i think his swings look sooooooooo much better than they did last year
Joey
April 5th, 2011
11:53 am
Hurry Fredi!!!!!!!!!
There’s only 5 months and 156 games left!!!!!!
What’s wrong with BugKiller?
ijudgenot
April 5th, 2011
11:56 am
As in most things right now, economics is the deciding factor. Not for the Braves but for Nate. He knows that contact hitters don’t get multiple year contracts at $5mil plus. The only way he will ever be able to demand that type of contract again is to be a potential homerun threat, so he will continue to swing for the fences until the Braves say enough is enough. The contrct is a problem for the Braves, but the greater problem is that they don’t have anyone who has shown so far that they could do a lot better right now than Nate. If you have somrone who can do a little beter than Nate but not a lot then you stick with the guy who you are already paying $5mill. They could drop KK because they had 3 guys who could do a lot better than him right now.
leroy
April 5th, 2011
11:57 am
The biggest problem with hitting Nate second is that by definition you are giving one of your worst hitters the second most plate appearances, which statistically is counter-intuitive.
With the addition of Uggla and a healthy Chipper, the Braves have what is sort of an “American League” lineup. Hit your highest OPB guys at the top, set the table, and stress the opponents’ staffs. For that reason Heyward needs to be in the two hole and Mclouth eigth.
TM923
April 5th, 2011
12:17 pm
Agreed with those who understand the 2 position in a lineup.
The 2nd hitter is supposed to be a tough out who makes contact and can either move the leadoff guy up a base, but also set up your main RBI guys coming behind in 3-4-5. OBP is the most important stat for a #2 hitter. Speed on the base path’s is not. For all saying Chipper can’t run and would not make a good #2… you don’t want your #2 guy creating open bases in front of the 3-4-5’s coming up. You want to create baserunners and stress the opposing pitcher to the highest level for the upcoming batters.
Chipper would be the perfect #2 because of his experience and how he sets up and protects the rest of the lineup and puts fear in the pitcher.
Nate McLouth is a horrible #2 hitter because he doesn’t scare anyone and creates a hole in the top of the lineup, which benefits the pitcher heading into the meat of the lineup.
Get NM out of the #2 hole right away! and let him work out his issues in the 8 hole where he belongs (if at all).
DetroitBraves
April 5th, 2011
12:23 pm
To answer PMC’s question (assuming it was sincere) – yes, there is a good reason to not bat Gonzalez second. He is the most likely hitter on the team other than the pitcher to make an out. Exposing an out machine in the lower third of the order is bad enough. Intentionally giving him another 75-100 plate appearances in which he is more likely to make an out than anyone else in the lineup by moving him up is criminal. Those additional outs, in what appears to be another tightly bunched NL at the top, could directly result in the Braves sitting at home in October.
bravo-n-knoxville
April 5th, 2011
12:29 pm
Not much longer than say 3-4 weeks. bat him 8th, and move Freddie Freeman to the 2 spot because he will go with the pitch much better than our other options. Chipper would be ideal, but Freddie G. would never do it because it would be perceived as “in-your-face” Bobby Cox by the same media that generated this blog too begin with…aye?
ATLfan15
April 5th, 2011
12:29 pm
i believe we’ve already seen the best Nate has to offer, so give him till the end of April. if he hasn’t come around by then, bench him (never mind the 8th spot in the order). give Matt Young a chance in CF…i’d love to see what he can contribute to the lineup.
westside
April 5th, 2011
12:38 pm
i didnt know MVPs and Batting titles were won through 4 games…and before people start to bash mclouth, Joe Mauer is hitting .111 , Pujols has grounded into 3 DPs and is only 2 for 16, and how many people think Ryan Howard of all people will win the NL batting title…he leading now with a .538 avg. so before we pick on Mclouth let the guy get a week into the season b4 u start to bust him…i think he will have a great year for the braves..watch cuz i said it
westside
April 5th, 2011
12:41 pm
as far as Freeman hitting 2nd…thats not a good idea… someone like Heyward doesnt come too often so u cant just say “well heyward did it”. Freeman at best will be a middle of the order hitter because of his power and avg like Heyward. both will be 3-4-5 hitters that where their power, avg, and run producing bats will be a beauty to see
westside
April 5th, 2011
12:43 pm
and Mclouth has scored the most runs so far..so he is getting on…jus gotta start hittin some more balls
Josefio
April 5th, 2011
12:43 pm
#2 spot is supposed to get on base and score runs. McClouth has scored three runs in four games despite his dismal dismal batting average (which is a highly overrated stat imo). Right now, he has a better OBP than Prado who is batting first. That shows you how irrelevant this discussion is right now. Should we be talking about how long to leave Prado in the #1 spot? NO!
Joey
April 5th, 2011
12:47 pm
Thank you, westside.
“…Mclouth has scored the most runs…”
Even if he batted 1.000, Chipper ain’t gonna knock him in every time.
ArkyTech
April 5th, 2011
12:49 pm
Seriously, Jeff. They’ve played 4 games and 2 of those were against left handed starters.
joemoedee
April 5th, 2011
12:51 pm
Uggla’s batting .176 with 0 walks, the Braves should release him now. Freeman is batting .143, he clearly is a bust.
Yes, those are silly statements, in as much as judging what McLouth is doing after 4 games.
McLouth obviously showed the adjustments in spring training for Freddi to make the choice to put him in the 2 hole. He’s never topped 100 strikeouts in a season, whereas Heyward struckout 128 times last year. So the whole argument that he strikes out too much is moot.
Neither are the prototypical number 2 hole guy, but I truly think that we’ll see McLouth closer to his 08 form than his 10 form when its all said and done.
DetroitBraves
April 5th, 2011
1:00 pm
Westside, perhaps you have heard about the 2010 season? No. What about 2009? How about the .336 OBP in over 2000 at-bats? This is not about 4 games.
And for people that like to point to spring training at-bats, many of those come against pitchers that aren’t even rosterable. And yes, he had about a league average September last year until you adjust for the fact that rosters expand in September so those league average at-bats actually came against competition that was often below average.
But by all means, please keep running a sub-optimal lineup out there to protect the overpaid player’s feelings. After all, games don’t matter in April anyway.
Bernard
April 5th, 2011
1:03 pm
I’m back…unfortunately so is Mc “OUT”…OUCH!!!…he’s a loser…get rid of him please…he’d be a PERFECT fit in Kansas City with ole Frenchy…a literal one two punch out boys. the rest of the boys of summer get a thumbs up!!!…don’t miss Bobby or Kawakami…or Charlie Liebrandt either!!!… GGGGGoooo BBBBBraves!!! whats up with JJ?
Junk Bond
April 5th, 2011
1:06 pm
McLouth and Kawasucki – in the same league – both have to back up to the pay window to collect their checks.
'boro Braves fan
April 5th, 2011
1:10 pm
Can’t believe nice Nate is our long term option in center. He should lead off – in Gwinnet. As far as batting in the 2 hole, where is Julio Franco when you need him?
George Costanza
April 5th, 2011
1:23 pm
Do what I did…the exact opposite of what you are doing now, McLouth.
shmoe
April 5th, 2011
1:24 pm
its FOUR freaking games!!!
and he faced a tough lefty yesterday. as i recall, none of the other lefties did well either.
Ted M
April 5th, 2011
1:26 pm
Fredi should not keep in the 2 hole after this series. Unless he goes 4 for 9 and we all know thats not gonna happen.
McLouths arm really really bothers me.
phil
April 5th, 2011
1:26 pm
L hysterically at Kawasucki, the mere mention of charlie liebrandt and julio franco!! This is such good stuff….
McOut is the lightning rod in Atlanta right now. Two-thirds want him gone and the other one-third simply ignores last year’s debacle and wonders why so many of us are down on this guy.
Hey, we all want him to hit well and get on base too but he isn’t doing it….if he gets on 3 times tonight, great….i’ll back off a little….when he ks 3 times, i’ll be right here tomorrow screaming for his head….
blue
April 5th, 2011
1:26 pm
Dayman; real intelligent comparison. Because we ALL know that Pujols and McLouth have the same ten year record of success.
phil
April 5th, 2011
1:28 pm
McOut’s arm, inability to catch and his face always totally devoid of any expression or sign of comprehension of anything really really bothers me…
Hillbilly Deluxe
April 5th, 2011
1:28 pm
This is baseball. At least wait ’til the end of April, to start panicking.
phil
April 5th, 2011
1:29 pm
and i forgot to mention the mid-80s hair dye on McOut….is he really THIS stupid?
Dorothy Davis
April 5th, 2011
1:32 pm
Would you rather have Schafer in center. He could break McLouths strike out record for sure. How about we give him the job and he could tell teamates how to do the juice? And still not get a hit. Lets give Nate a break and a few games to get going offense wise. Defensively he is the best we have in center for sure. We gave Prado a few games to get going, so why not Nate?
OldeFan
April 5th, 2011
1:46 pm
Can someone answer this? I have a friend who refuses to follow the Braves anymore because he says Nate McLouth makes $15M. and my friend cannot understand why the Braves would pay him so much money for so little to show for it. I think this figure is wrong: the Braves are not known for paying position players this kind of jack. Does anyone know what Nate’s salary is? Thanks