Tech vs. Georgia: Has balance of power shifted in hoops?
Brian Gregory: Can he wake up Tech?
Mark Fox: Got Dogs to tourney quickly.
Because of obvious allegiances, it’s nearly impossible for fans/readers in these parts to debate the merits of Georgia and Georgia Tech — or to be fair: Georgia Tech and Georgia — and remain objective. But here goes:
Loading ...Has the balance of power in college basketball between Georgia and Tech officially shifted to Athens?
I touched on this subject two weeks ago, though it was more from a conference perspective after the SEC earned more spots in the NCAA tournament than the ACC.
I’ll concede these two points on Georgia and Georgia Tech: 1) Mark Fox has coached only two seasons and next year the Bulldogs almost certainly will have to do without Trey Thompkins (who’s expected to turn pro) and possibly without Travis Leslie (who may follow him); 2) As much as the Georgia Tech fan base appears split on Brian Gregory — much like the Dayton fan base was split on Gregory — we have no idea what kind of job he’ll do on The Flats.
Here’s the situation at the two schools:
♦ Georgia: Fox brought Georgia to the NCAA tournament in only his second season. The Bulldogs’ conference record (9-7) was their best in the SEC since Jim Harrick cheated. Harrick’s best SEC record in a season that the NCAA determined he didn’t cheat: 9-7 in 2000-01. Fox energized the fan base and woke up recruiting. We can debate whether the Dogs, who lost in the first round of the tournament to Washington, underachieved this season or not. My view: They did not underachieve. Thompkins, their best player, was slowed much of the season by injuries. He’s the difference in several of those close losses. This also is a program still learning how to win. Fox inherited a team that went 12-20 the previous season and he went 14-17 and 21-12 in his first two years. The arrow: pointing up.
♦ Georgia Tech: Recruits are still drawn to Georgia Tech. We know this because for all of the criticism Paul Hewitt took the past few years, he was able to get talent on campus. Gregory’s success obviously hinges in part on how quickly he can make inroads in the state (and that starts with holding onto Milton High School’s Julian Royal). The Jackets can get better quickly. The ACC is not the powerhouse it used to be. But Gregory obviously has a lot to prove. Hewitt was fired at least in part because he couldn’t win in the ACC. Gregory leveled off in the Atlantic 10. His first two Dayton teams went 22-10 in conference. His next six went 48-48, and only one over .500: 11-5 in 2008-09, when the Flyers went to the second round of the NCAA tournament. Next season, he’ll have to try to get people excited while the Jackets split games between Philips Arena and Gwinnett Arena. The arrow: Uncertain.
So there are the Cliffs notes. Your thoughts? Has one program pulled ahead of the other? I’ve also put up a poll.
By Jeff Schultz
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169 comments Add your comment
Jim Bob
March 28th, 2011
3:30 pm
Um let’s see the great Fox has won 0 postseason games in two years, the most recent season of which he had two NBA 1st round talents on his roster. Can we please stop anointing him as the next John Wooden. Heck Paul Hewitt won a NCAA tournament game in the last two years lol.
Georgia Tech has 16 NCAA tournament appearances including two Final Fours. Georgia Tech has a dozen players in the NBA. There’s no comparison between the two programs in basketball. Schultz is just trying to stir the pot, keep sucking up to Fox’s jock strap and see where that gets you.
VA DAWG
March 28th, 2011
3:35 pm
I think its a little early to say there is a shift in power…neither have showed any power over the last few years. I would agree that the momentum has shifted to Athens, but CMF’s ability to recruit quality players to Athens will be the determining factor. The 2011 class looks solid, but I believe the 2012 class is very crucial to the future success of this program. If he is able to bring three or more high quality players to the roster, he very may well provide a Dawgnation will a top 25 program. The next 12 months will show which program has obtained the shift in power. GO DAWGS!
Sammy Dawg
March 28th, 2011
3:39 pm
We will be in the final four next year. I would say the balance of power has shifted.
BYRDDAWG
March 28th, 2011
3:43 pm
Coach Grohbo, I’m not into calling names as my Tech friend Supersize will atest but are you an IDIOT?
brad
March 28th, 2011
3:43 pm
I’m a Georgia fan and I have issues with Coach Fox believe me. But about this balance of power argument, first what power? Second look at the record betweeen Tech and UGA the last twenty years. UGA leads. I don’t know of a better measuring stick than head to head competition.
The truth is there isn’t really a frog hair’s worth of difference between the two. You could swap jerseys at halftime and nobody would know the difference.
Supersize that order, mutt
March 28th, 2011
3:49 pm
BYRDDAWG, you are without a doubt probably the coolest mutt I know.
Supersize that order, mutt
March 28th, 2011
3:51 pm
That being said, however, BYRDDAWG, I find myself agreeing for the most part with Coach Grohbo. Now don’t you go calling me an idiot too. LOL
GD
March 28th, 2011
3:52 pm
The balance of power has not shifted either way. Neither team has put anything on the scale worth measuring.
GTBob
March 28th, 2011
3:54 pm
How many SEC teams … Are you debating that the SEC was better than the ACC this year?
I think that is easily debatable. You make it sound like a no brainer. The SEC wasn’t very good overall as a conference this year. Neither was the ACC, but you could make an argument for both.
gdawginkalamazoo
March 28th, 2011
3:57 pm
Other than the head to head play I think one of these teams needs to win something else before we can vote one of them off of the island. Of course I like our chances with Coach Fox I think he will keep us moving in the right direction. Tech needs to give there coach a chance. I don’t know why they hired on so quickly though.
gdawginkalamazoo
March 28th, 2011
3:58 pm
their coach……
BYRDDAWG
March 28th, 2011
4:01 pm
Supersize, I was going with his reference to why we haven’t fired Richt or Landers…Richt has a losing season this yr and he’s a goner! Landers just made the ladies sweet 16 only to take a beat down but with his history of making the tourney every yr…he’s almost untouchable! That’s my point in the comparison with phewitt
Supersize that order, mutt
March 28th, 2011
4:02 pm
ok, BYRD. I agree with you on those points. You’re forgiven. LOL
BYRDDAWG
March 28th, 2011
4:10 pm
Supersize, who do you like in the 2 semis?
gdawginkalamazoo
March 28th, 2011
4:12 pm
In those photos, looks like they are doing one of those Budweiser commercials…..Gregory saying “Wasssssuuuppppp!” Fox replies Ssssuuuppppp!
Supersize that order, mutt
March 28th, 2011
4:12 pm
Not sure about VCU and Butler, BYRD. I just wish they were in different regions so they COULD have met in the finals instead of the semis. I HATE UK, and I HATE UCONN, but I guess I’ll pull for UCONN and hope that the winner of the other semi wins it all.
Dawglasville
March 28th, 2011
4:13 pm
Duluth Dawg Keep blogging. The negative bloggers flourish while respectful bloggers do nothing.
gdawginkalamazoo
March 28th, 2011
4:18 pm
Totally off subject but couldn;t they have at least hit Spurrier with a taser when they “fake” arrested him.
BYRDDAWG
March 28th, 2011
4:18 pm
Butler & UK for me…I’m a conference lolalist even to the point of pulling for the Auburn warbuzzards in the NC game against Oregon!! Oh the pain the pain….
Beast from the East
March 28th, 2011
4:18 pm
Can’t really say if the “balance of power” has shifted. UGA obviously took a huge step forward this season while Tech took a step back. One season is too small of a window to gauge something like that. I say let’s give it two more years before we can really judge.
Go for 2
March 28th, 2011
4:19 pm
Jeff:
Mark Fox didn’t underachieve? Boy that’s a ringing endoresement. Fox’s game coaching (note: most strait-shooting people cite coaching as key in close games) was extremely suspect and he’s losing talent (brought in by his predecessor). Can you at least agree to say that if UGa does not get back to March Madness next year, the fox hire is a negative? Also, in assessing Coach Fox, why no mention of all the big leads the team blew this year?
As far as GTech goes, it looks like this was perhaps driven by limited salary budget, maybe Ga Tech is waitin to pay off the Coach Hewitt obligation fully and just take a rider on Coach Gregory.
Most likely both programs will continue to be mediocre as I see no evidence that Fox can recruit or effectively game coach and Gregory’s resume is suspect.
Please stop with the pseudo analysis.
Beast from the East
March 28th, 2011
4:20 pm
BYRDDAWG,
I’m with ya. Either UK (SEC) or Butler (great story and a great young coach).
Supersize that order, mutt
March 28th, 2011
4:30 pm
BYRDDAWG, I know you won’t like me for saying this, although it probably won’t surprise you, but I NEVER pull for an SEC team in any sport. But I’m also not a total conference loyalist either. I would have been happy with either Duke, UNC, or FSU making it to the finals, but if any of them had been up against either VCU or Butler, then I would have ditched any conference loyalty. I wanted Butler to beat Duke last year.
Go for 2
March 28th, 2011
4:35 pm
Jeff:
Reading your comments above. If a hire “…can say something about perceived direction” than you have to say that the Fox hire shows that Georgia is considered a mediocre at best job (especially considering all the in state talent). Coach Fox’s unimpressive recruiting record (2 years of data now) just reinforces this.
Jeff: Please show all the Rivals Top 100 Players from Georgia and let us know where they are going. I think Georgia is getting very few (1 top 20 player I believe).
Bob
March 28th, 2011
4:43 pm
What a joke. GT has had the best program since at least the early 80’s.
Ga basketball is a joke. Look at how thy performed at seasons end.
balance of power?
March 28th, 2011
4:46 pm
uga is a football school. they could care less about hoops.
there is no power in hoops for either school. making a field of 68 teams does not make one a power. making the sweet 16 several times in a decade does. neither school especially uga has done that.
fpice
March 28th, 2011
4:54 pm
Enter your comments here
BYRDDAWG
March 28th, 2011
4:55 pm
WHERE’S HEWITT FAN????? LOL
Dollar Bill
March 28th, 2011
5:01 pm
I see the Aarons logo at the press conference… maybe we are just renting him for a season?
(That was bad.. I apologize)
GT GRAD
March 28th, 2011
5:22 pm
The sheer number of UGA alumni vs. GT alumni who read the AJC will determine the outcome of the poll.
Add in the ridiculous number of UGA fans who did not attend UGA and the results will be way out of whack……….the poll means nothing with regard to which basketball program is “better”; the poll simply reflects how many UGA fans partcipate in the poll vs. GT fans. Come on guys stop drinking the Koolaid!!
ignition
March 28th, 2011
6:06 pm
Dayton fans are jumping for JOY right now..
Player development issues..
Stagnant offences…
How about NO Offences..
2 players transfering..
Mediocre IN CONFERENCE record..
No NBA drafted players..
8 years only 2 NCAA appearances…
I’m Baffled.. What a terrile hire..
swatguy
March 28th, 2011
6:46 pm
I really think the Georgia State hire was better. Tech should have waited for Shaka Smart and Brad Stevens. Unless he hires a “Sharman White” to recruit this most fertile area, he is swimming upstream already.
THE ROCK
March 28th, 2011
6:47 pm
hey gt boob,the DAWGS won the SEC in on yalls home floor . also the DAWGS have a 2 game winning streak against gt .
Buckeye
March 28th, 2011
7:06 pm
First!!!
GTBob
March 28th, 2011
7:06 pm
THE ROCK, most teams win on our home floor and most teams have won two in a row against us. It’s not much of an accomplishment.
dawg4u
March 28th, 2011
7:07 pm
Wow even though we lost in the first game of the NCAA tournament – we “own” the state of Georgia. What do we get for that other than an “attaboy” from all the UGA alumni and fans?
MattMD
March 28th, 2011
7:11 pm
Both teams have been mediocre-to-suck lately so whatever “balance” that has shifted really isn’t much, if anything at all.
Tech has had more recent success but even that is about 7 years ago.
BUZZ 2011
March 28th, 2011
7:38 pm
I would put the Dogs behind Georgia State and Mercer and probably KSU.
Unyil their lucky run this year I recall they were last in the mighty SEC conference
the past few years.. What did they win last year 7 games.. My gosh they were not
even as good as their Dog baseball teams….
GT best by far in state of Georgia
GTBob
March 28th, 2011
7:56 pm
How about this for a stat. The last NCAA tournament game that UGA won that was not vacated by the NCAA was in 1996. 15 years without an NCAA tournament win. GT has won 7 tournament games since then, gone to a final four, and to the national championship. Like I said earlier, UGA is going to have to do a little more then barely make the tournament to turn things around.
KevinM
March 28th, 2011
7:59 pm
gofor2, dead on! It is Year 3 in recruiting and CMF is still looking like he has very few connections to get the best state players available. Was his one success a family relation?
Now, going forward for Tech, they will be fortunate to not play on Day 1 of the ACC Tourney. They have a hill and then some to climb. Don’t expect to be better than anyone but Kennesaw State unless you schedule a game in the dreaded ‘Owl’s nest’. We currently know that Gregory will have some flavor of Big10 brute basketball in him being a disciple of Izzo. Gregory’s Dayton team this past year:
Points per game – 66.5 – 239th overall
Field goal percentage – .409 – 207th overall
Rebounds – 38.5 – 20th
Assists – 14.7- 56th
Does that sound like a high flying offense that has just landed in Atlanta?
Georgia, success is based on returnees and the new guys coming in. You have a lot to replace. They look like they should be better than UT at least and could compete with USCjr for 4th behind FL, Vandy, & the Cats.
It just doesn’t look good in the present for state teams in either power conference. I guess that’s what $1M or so will get you. But I sure would like to see more kids stay in state. It’s like neither choice is as good as anywhere else. Sad.
Bounced Big Time!
March 28th, 2011
8:46 pm
Fire Andy Landers!
DaddyRich
March 28th, 2011
8:47 pm
We need Pokie Chatman to take over the women’s program at Georgia
CrackDaddy
March 28th, 2011
8:58 pm
Just what “power” has been transferred. Are you suggesting that either program is “powerful”?
CrackDaddy
March 28th, 2011
9:06 pm
I’m sorry, but with little exception, any highly-rated player would never choose to play at UGa over Ky, Fl, Duke, UNC, and in most cases Tech. It simply would make no sense in most cases. This is not to say that UGa will never have any good teams. It just means that UGa will always struggle, and that it will never be more than a stepping stone, lest they pay an upwardly-mobile coach premium pay for a long time. Even then, they will have nothing more than a good coach, and at best, an erstwhile good program.
AfghanHoundDawg
March 28th, 2011
9:16 pm
I’m an outsider, but I perceive a much brighter aura surrounding the Tech program than the UGa program. Working on a degree from Tech while playing in Atlanta and in the ACC, just seems a little more alluring for most big-time players than playing BB in Athens for UGa. Now if you love UGa, then playing there makes all the sense in the world. But I don’t see it attracting kids. It’s great for Southern frat boys and girls and other lame brains that populate campuses of UGa’s ilk, but I think that breed is dying out. It’s not as if UGa is a destination, or that it equals a public “ivy”. It is a good university that gets “booby-prize” students from southern states.
JSS
March 28th, 2011
9:39 pm
Just what the Association needs, another combination guard (Shumpert) who has no idea what his strengths and weaknesses are! Scary, this is starting to smell like Crittenden…
sports
March 28th, 2011
9:49 pm
Norcross High School is a better place to play basketball than Ga Tech…they also have a better team.
Coach
March 28th, 2011
10:22 pm
I guess we’re giving Fox a bye on his bone-headed clock management in the tournament?
James Adams
March 29th, 2011
12:17 am
Id like to quickly revisit the ACC/SEC debate and the mythology of the dominant ACC:
Since 1994
Sweet 16 app: ACC-39 SEC-35
Elite 8 app: ACC-20 SEC-20
Final Four app: ACC-15 SEC-12
Championship Game App: ACC-8 SEC-8
Champions: ACC-5 SEC-5
Tournament Record head-to-head: SEC 14- ACC 7
End of story
Paul in RDU
March 29th, 2011
1:07 am
We have another SEC homer chosing 1994 as the start year to compare the SEC with the ACC. Why 1994 since 17 years ago seems like a strange number? Could it possibly be because from 1994 to date is the only time period since the NCAA expanded to 64 teams that the SEC has the same number of championships as the ACC?
If you add on 3 more years to get to 20 years the tally becomes ACC 7 championships SEC 5. Go back to 30 years and the score is ACC 9 SEC 5