Poll time: Is Georgia Tech’s job really worse than Utah’s?
I know this seems like a long time ago but it's certainly possible again at Georgia Tech. And the answer is: Luke Schenscher and Marvin Lewis, circa 2004, in the Final Four.
After Bruce Pearl finally got smacked by the karma train the other day, I mentioned how Georgia Tech could be hurt by the fact so many high profile jobs were open. The Yellow Jackets may not be able to survive a bidding war for the most attractive basketball coaching candidates for two reasons: 1) Athletic department economics; 2) The $7.2 million contract payoff to former coach Paul Hewitt.
Loading ...But this also is about how good the Tech job is considered. If say, Richmond’s Chris Mooney considers Georgia Tech a better position than Tennessee or Arkansas, money becomes less of a factor. So how good is it? I’ll give you my rankings shortly. But at least one national writer does not rank Tech highly.
Mike DeCourcy of The Sporting News ranked six current openings. They are (listed alphabetically): Arkansas, Georgia Tech, North Carolina State, Oklahoma, Tennessee, Utah. Rank them in your mind and then look at how he stacks them up: 1.) Arkansas; 2.) North Carolina State; 3.) Utah; 4.) Georgia Tech; 5.) Oklahoma; 6.) Tennessee.
Here’s DeCourcy’s comment on Georgia Tech: Upside: Atlanta annually is loaded with superb high school talent. Downside: Higher academic standards, middling interest in program, substandard arena. Tech doesn’t really have a place for at-risk students. If not for the concern about Tech’s academic demands, this job would be near the top of the list because of the great talent the region produces: Dwight Howard, Josh Smith, Jelan Kendrick. Should pursue: VCU coach Shaka Smart. What might invigorate the Jackets is Smart’s dynamic style of play – which keeps lots of players involved and contributing – rather than a constant reliance on short-term players and roster overhauling.
DeCourcy’s actually one of the better college basketball writers in the country but he’s off base on a few things here. If there was “middling interest” in Tech basketball, fans and alumni wouldn’t have been so passionate (and occasionally nasty) in their criticism of Hewitt. This is still one of the higher profile programs in the ACC, which is one of the highest profile basketball conferences (even in down years like this).
The “substandard arena” comment doesn’t take into account the planned renovation. And about Shaka Smart: He might be a great coach but a lot of assumptions are being made about a guy who’s only in his second season.
My biggest issue with the rankings is having Utah so high, which is based primarily on the fact that the school is moving into the Pacific 12. It’s still hard to imagine recruits flocking to Salt Lake City, any more than they’re flocking to Pullman, Wash. (Washington State, another Pac-12 school).
Here are my rankings, with a brief comment. Let me know what you think.
♦ 1. Arkansas: A lot of money and support, a great tradition under Nolan Richardson and a significantly improved basketball conference. (Update: There are several reports that Missouri’s Mike Anderson will take the Arkansas job and get a seven-year contract worth $2.2 million annually.)
♦ 2. Georgia Tech: Great recruiting basis, a fan base thirsting for success again, new practice facility and a renovated arena on the horizon.
♦ 3. N.C. State: Money to spend and in the heart of Tobacco Road, but a program that always will be dwarfed by neighbors Duke and North Carolina.
♦ 4. Oklahoma: Forever a football school but they’ve had great success under a succession of coaches (albeit some who ended up in NCAA handcuffs): Billy Tubbs, Kelvin Sampson and Jeff Capel.
♦ 5. Tennessee: Baggage aside, Pearl did an amazing job building the basketball program and helped raise the SEC’s basketball profile.
♦ 6. Utah: Not saying Utah won’t have an impact but the job isn’t that big yet.
OK, now it’s your turn. How high (or low) should the Tech job be ranked?
By Jeff Schultz
♦
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147 comments Add your comment
JSS
March 23rd, 2011
7:38 pm
You don’t have to sell me on the Utah job, I mentioned most of the reasons that you guys put up… That is top shelf… The hard sells are OU, Arkansas, and UT… Those Arkansas and Oklahoma brands are just tarnished and some sports writers don’t see it… Heath and Pelphrey were run off. If they whiff on Anderson, heaven help them… Oklahoma must think they still Billy Tubbs available? The Griffin boys are gone… Maybe they can get Wade Phillips to come and coach hoops!
Correction: Keith Dambrot’s staff at Akron was Shaka Smart’s mentor…
St. Clarkston
March 23rd, 2011
8:02 pm
I’m a dawg fan but that’s ridiculous. Tech is in the premiere bball conference. I’m sure many coaches will want the challenge. Just stay from mark fox.
JSS
March 23rd, 2011
8:42 pm
Well know who hacked your account now? Gotta love the AJC Blogs!
Tech Fan Since 1950
March 23rd, 2011
9:03 pm
Oh come on Jeff. No contest! Georgia Tech is better because all of the coaches and players and even us fans get to read the Atlanta Journal-Constitution. It is like reading the book of knowledge on how to play and coach and cheer for all sports. That is a perk no other basketball program can ever have.
D A DoubleU G
March 23rd, 2011
9:40 pm
To a poster earlier that wanted to point out that “basketball has not passed Tech yet, so why would football”…..
First off, GSU will NEVER pass Tech in basketball simply because Tech is in the ACC.
Secondly, the scenario I conjured up which would give GSU any chance at all in passing Tech in football started with GSU joining a major conference, which they have yet to do since they have not had a football team.
That scenario in all likelihood is extremely far fetched, but anybody with an open mind must admit it is possible.
UtahPac12 bound
March 23rd, 2011
10:13 pm
Utah is the better job
11th winningest program in NCAA history
NCAA Tournament champions
1944
NCAA Tournament runner up
1998
NCAA Tournament Final Four
1944, 1961, 1966, 1998
NCAA Tournament Elite Eight
1956, 1961, 1966, 1997, 1998
NCAA Tournament Sweet Sixteen
1955, 1956, 1959, 1960, 1961, 1966, 1977, 1978, 1981, 1983, 1991, 1996, 1997, 1998, 2005
NCAA Tournament appearances
1944, 1945, 1955, 1956, 1959, 1960, 1961, 1966, 1977, 1978, 1979, 1981, 1983, 1986, 1991, 1993, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2009
Ted
March 23rd, 2011
10:24 pm
Yes, it is worse. Salt Lake City is a much nicer city. No one cares about a renovated arena “on the horizon”. There’s so much urban sprawl in Atlanta it’s ridiculous.
Stinger
March 23rd, 2011
10:24 pm
One and done at Tech except the coaches! Coaching at tech is like being a security guard at a graveyard!
Ted
March 23rd, 2011
10:25 pm
Enter your comments here
juice sourcer
March 23rd, 2011
10:44 pm
Down year in the ACC Jeff…hummmm. 3 teams in the sweet 16…how many from the Big East or the SEC or the Big 10…or the Pac 10…just because Georgia Tech sucks does not mean down year.
ben
March 23rd, 2011
11:53 pm
Middling fan support is right on. The only time we support the program is if we are in some kind of playoff situation
Butts Wagner
March 24th, 2011
12:06 am
It comes down to whether one thinks being in the ACC outranks being in the Big12 or SEC(or Pac12 if we really are considering Utah). Oklahoma could be in perennial contention for 2nd in the Big12 since Kansas is the only powerhouse and Oklahoma is a giant state school that can accept any kind of student. Arky could always be in contention for the SEC West title, which is probably like contention for 3rd in the SEC every year since Kentucky is a power and UF has Donovan. Tennessee has the Kentucky and Florida problem in their own division. If we are considering Utah, they are moving to a better conference where they will be a small fish in a big pond. I just don’t see how they have greater upside than GT. And then there is GT and NC State. It’s the ACC. After Duke and UNC, the conference is pretty even. With the right coach, any ACC school could make a move and always be in contention for 3rd place behind the big 2. If it just came down to potential first year salary, yeah, GT is probably 4th or 5th on this list. But if you are a coach who wants to somewhere with potential for success and against the best competition(and who knows that long term success will take care of the salary issue), GT and NC State have to top the list.
Logan Booker
March 24th, 2011
12:26 am
@ben,
“Middling fan support” perfectly describes you, and luckily it does not describe true Jacket fans. The only way to get rid of Hewitt was to vote with our wallets; it became obvious that regardless of what the buyout was for CPH it would be far cheaper in the long run to let him go.
GDBurdell
March 24th, 2011
12:44 am
Hahaha “true tek fans” have one thing in common, they prob have a nail in their head and just don’t know it yet. Tek blows and tek fan excuses and stupid hair brained stories denying the fact only serve as proof
Logan Booker
March 24th, 2011
1:01 am
@GDBurdell,
… yet another example of why Dawg fans are ridiculed for their stupidity. Do yourself and your fellow mutts a favor and keep your ignorance a secret by keeping your mouth shut.
JSS
March 24th, 2011
1:08 am
“If we are considering Utah, they are moving to a better conference where they will be a small fish in a big pond. I just don’t see how they have greater upside than GT.”
Because there is a 40,000,000 colossus sitting to SW less that a 2 hour plane flight from them. That place is called California… Even when you put all of the Pac-12, the WAC, MWC, PCC, and the highly successful D-II programs in California are still stocked with talent… Add to that the international pipeline that Rick Majerus tapped and is still supplying players to them (1 from Bolivia)… They recruit nationally (CA-4, TX-2, MI-2, UT-2, PA-1, NY-1, TN-1, MO-1, ID-1, and GA-1)
PS… They have a 7-3 center who was the Mountain West defensive player of the year shot blocking machine in David Foster!
Scrappy the Owl
March 24th, 2011
2:18 am
What about us? we have a opening too!!! pearl to Kennesaw State University. hoot hoot
Scrappy the Owl
March 24th, 2011
2:22 am
GSU better stop talking crap about passing tech. at least we beat the jackets!! 80-63 hahahahahaha, i sure will miss hewitt, and we will be the football program everybody is talking about in a couple years anyway.
Scrappy the Owl
March 24th, 2011
2:30 am
programs in the state.
1. Georgia
2.Kennesaw State
3.St. Mary’s school for the blind, deaf, and mute
4. Georgia Tech
5. GSU
Logan Booker
March 24th, 2011
2:53 am
@Crappy the Owl,
No one cares about Kennesaw State except KSU students. KSU… a legacy of mediocrity.
camobmus
March 24th, 2011
6:10 am
Comparing Salt Lake City to Pullman, Washington? There is a reason one of those cities has an NBA team. Salt Lake City is a much nicer place to live than Atlanta, Fayetteville or Raleigh. Utah is the 12th winningest basketball program in NCAA history. It last went to the NCAA tournament in 2009 and it went to the Sweet 16 in 2005 and 1996 before that. When did Georgia Tech last make the Sweet Sixteen? 15 years ago. Arkansas? Also 15 years ago. North Carolina State? 2005 and 1989 before that. Either Oklahoma or Tennessee probably have the best programs to coach at with multiple Sweet 16s and Elite 8s in the last 20 years.
GTFANFROM1951
March 24th, 2011
6:56 am
Uath loves basketball because their football team could not beat most high school team in Georgia. You have to in that “church” to want to go there. Its not BYU its more like Georgia State.
GT
March 24th, 2011
7:02 am
Any basketball coach that is willing to bury himself in the middle of a back road football school for any amount of money is a touch crazy. Check the record, even Nolan Richardson is bitter towards that school. You think Dean Smith hates UNC, or Cremins Tech, both had the places there named after them. There should be a grave yard somewhere with all the bodies of good coaches that had careers upended because they decided to go to a SEC school to coach basketball.
ormewood
March 24th, 2011
7:29 am
With the right coach, Tech can be the third-best job in the ACC. That’s not bad.
JSS
March 24th, 2011
7:41 am
GTFANFROM1951
March 24th, 2011
6:56 am
“Uath loves basketball because their football team could not beat most high school team in Georgia.”
Go ask your neighbors in Alabama about underestimating Utah football… Oh wait, I forgot, didn’t Tech find out first hand about Utah football during this past decade? What was that score in SF?
The two universities in our State can’t beat anybody right now. For you fans, I hope that it is sooner than later. But, the leagues have pushed sportsmanship, it is time for fans to enter the agreement…
Coach Cool
March 24th, 2011
9:49 am
SLC is UNDERrated and much better than east bumble Pullman.
Park City is only 30 minutes away.
juvenal
March 24th, 2011
9:51 am
what city is rated #1 for Black professionals? what school is #1 in graduating Black engineers?(yes, D A, very few of our S-A’s will be engineers, but you will soon find out it’s all about networks…)
Jack Birch
March 24th, 2011
9:58 am
“….the ACC, which is one of the highest profile basketball conferences (even in down years like this).”
Agree with the premise of the comment but last I checked, ACC had more teams still playing than any other conference. It would be funny if the ACC had 3 of the Final Four teams in a “down” year.
Techster
March 24th, 2011
10:34 am
All I know is that the Tickle Piles have suffered with all the losing in basketball and FOOTBALL! LET’S GET ON WITH IT SO THAT WE CAN GET FIRED UP AROUND HERE!!!
RambleOn84
March 24th, 2011
10:40 am
Anyone else find it amazing dog fans are STILL harping about Atlanta’s crime rate with what’s going on in their own backyard right now?
How classless to find any joy in violent crimes…
ODBAlpha
March 24th, 2011
10:58 am
Both GT and NC State have unrealistic expectations for their respective programs, both are living on long-past glories, and neither will be able to compete with Duke or UNC in the foreseeable future (regardless of coaching choice).
RambleOn84
March 24th, 2011
11:01 am
The same could have been said about Alabama football a few years ago, but we all see how that turned out, don’t we?
Dawgfan79
March 24th, 2011
11:32 am
FYI
“Substandard area” is not talking about the gym……its talking about all the crime in and around the imminent area of the GT campus. In plain English……….its ghetto.
Plus, to be in the ghetto the cost of living is VERY high compared to traditional college towns sinec your in a city. You get the crime and high cost of living that goes with being in a larger city like Atlanta.
RambleOn84
March 24th, 2011
11:34 am
Yep, no crime in Athens, right?
RambleOn84
March 24th, 2011
11:37 am
Let’s avoid the “low blows” and keep crime out of this, dog fans…you really don’t want to go there with what all has happened in your backyard this past week.
ugaclassof2004
March 24th, 2011
12:07 pm
I don’t know much as much about basketball as I do about football, but I will say that sometimes a program just needs a fresh start, and a lot of times that is a better situation to come into as a coahc than trying to come into an established tradition. I was never a Damon Evans fan, but his firing of Felton was the right move. UGA’s basketball program is never going to be like Kentucky, but we’re at least capable of putting a competitive product on the court, with an outside chance of getting to the Dance. Felton came into a tough situation, but he had more than enough time to turn the product around and he didn’t do it. So we went in a new direction and took a bit of a risk on Mark Fox. Our program still needs work, but Fox is moving us in the right direction, which is good to see.
However, our football program is completely stuck in neutral. And when changes aren’t made, and the process drags on longer than it needs to, its frusterating. So I can totally relate to what Tech is going thru with its basketball program. I actually think the Tech job is a good one. They’re building a new facility, they play in the ATL( which is a lousy recruiting area for football but GREAT for basketball), and most importantly their fanbase is hungry for a winner. Any change in the right direction would be welcomed by the Tech faithful. Tech is never going to be Duke or UNC, but with the right guy, it’s capable of becoming a program that sends teams deep into the tournament every year.
ugaclassof2004
March 24th, 2011
12:10 pm
I don’t know as much about basketball as I do about football, but I will say that sometimes a program just needs a fresh start, and a lot of times that is a better situation to come into as a coach than trying to come into an established tradition. I was never a Damon Evans fan, but his firing of Felton was the right move. UGA’s basketball program is never going to be like Kentucky, but we’re at least capable of putting a competitive product on the court, with an outside chance of getting to the Dance. Felton came into a tough situation, but he had more than enough time to turn the product around and he didn’t do it. So we went in a new direction and took a bit of a risk on Mark Fox. Our program still needs work, but Fox is moving us in the right direction, which is good to see.
However, our football program is completely stuck in neutral. And when needed changes aren’t made, and the process drags on longer than it needs to; its frusterating. So I can totally relate to what Tech is going thru with its basketball program.
I actually think the Tech job is a good one. They’re building a new facility, they play in the ATL( which is a lousy recruiting area for football but GREAT for basketball), and most importantly their fanbase is hungry for a winner. Any change in the right direction would be welcomed by the Tech faithful. Tech is never going to be Duke or UNC, but with the right guy, they’re capable of becoming a program that sends teams deep into the tournament every year.
I HATE FLORIDA
March 24th, 2011
12:36 pm
Of all the openings listed, Tech has the LEAST fan support and alumni support. A coach should look at those things when deciding on a job. UGA has more fan and alumni support than Tech. Every school opening listed also has a better and richer winning history than GT except Tennessee.
James
March 24th, 2011
12:36 pm
You Georgia Tech fans pretending to never heard of Utah basketball, you’re just demonstrating your own ignorance. Utah has one of the greatest traditions in all of college basketball. And it’s moving to the Pac-12. 7 years of mediocrity doesn’t erase that.
It’s like pretending you’ve never heard of Michigan football.
West Coast Bias
March 24th, 2011
12:55 pm
I’m no fan of Utah or SLC but, seriously Jeff, while Salt Like City is lilly white and certainly no urban metropolis, comparing it to Pullman, WA makes you look like a provincial rube who’s never been west of the Mississippi.
Weary of Wasatch
March 24th, 2011
4:20 pm
Having been a resident of Utah for 17 years I can truly say that it is a different world than the rest of the U.S. It’s not just the LDS folks either. If you’re an African American in Utah you will feel very alone; I know I did. Utah is almost 100% white with a few American Indians, Hispanics, and African Americans sprinkled in. The countryside and geography is beautiful but the climate is severe in both summer and winter. Winter sports are fantastic but that was never my thing. I’ve enjoyed moving to Atlanta and experiencing Afrocentric culture. I can only imagine that many basketball recruits recognize and appreciate these same advantages in Atlanta. I’m sure many of the Utahans on this blog feel differently and are rightfully proud of their state. However, this is about basketball and I must say that I have really enjoyed following the ACC and even the SEC in basketball. I would have to vote for GT to be a better job than Utah, but that’s only my opinion. Chill.
Jeff Schultz
March 24th, 2011
6:15 pm
West Coast bias — Are you aware I grew up on the West Coast?
IL Jacket
March 24th, 2011
9:56 pm
Jeff, now all is revealed.
Brunswick Tech
March 25th, 2011
9:08 am
I think we should combine Ga State and Tech….I agree that no baller, (and I’ve known a few) really wants to attempt Calculus … We do need some degrees that athletes could pursue half heartily and still succeed. More kids would come to Tech if we followed the SEC’s lead on academics.
It is what it is .....
March 25th, 2011
11:45 am
Small ball, pure and simple the program is at GT. Ethel St is the big deterrant.
Dogs are laughing loudly.
Bazooka Joe
March 26th, 2011
11:40 am
Tech’s at the bottom of the list….. Id rather coach Valdosta State than Tech.
Carter
March 27th, 2011
5:42 pm
Someone asked “Does Utah even have a program?” Answer:
The school has made the NCAA Tournament 26 times, which ranks 16th in NCAA history and 3rd behind UCLA and the University of Arizona in the Western United States. Utah is currently the 12th winningest program in NCAA history.
NCAA Tournament champions
1944
NCAA Tournament runner up
1998
NCAA Tournament Final Four
1944, 1961, 1966, 1998
NCAA Tournament Elite Eight
1956, 1961, 1966, 1997, 1998
NCAA Tournament Sweet Sixteen
1955, 1956, 1959, 1960, 1961, 1966, 1977, 1978, 1981, 1983, 1991, 1996, 1997, 1998, 2005
NCAA Tournament appearances
1944, 1945, 1955, 1956, 1959, 1960, 1961, 1966, 1977, 1978, 1979, 1981, 1983, 1986, 1991, 1993, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2009