NCAA tournament: SEC (Georgia) has passed ACC (Tech)
Georgia has punctuated SEC's rise in basketball by making tournament. (Jason Getz/AJC)
Georgia obviously is ahead of Georgia Tech in basketball right now.
But has the SEC also moved past the ACC?
When the NCAA tournament field was announced Sunday night, the SEC had more teams (five) in the bracket than the ACC (four — and that includes Clemson, which must play a preliminary round game against Alabama-Birmingham Tuesday).
The ACC has two of the top six teams in the country, Duke and North Carolina, according to RPI. But the conference was obviously down this season. The SEC is on the rise, led by the improvement at Georgia under coach Mark Fox.
This isn’t a debate about “tradition” but rather where things are at right now. After Kentucky beat Florida Sunday, and before the tournament field was announced, coach John Calipari said: “I hope, I really hope, that Georgia’s in. I really hope that Alabama’s in. I really do. This league is better than everybody wants to give it credit for. The coaching and the players are outstanding. And there were talking heads today — I usually don’t listen to Digger Phelps because he’s usually wrong — but he said that when those teams get in the tournament, they win games. And I’m telling you, we lost to both of those teams [Georgia and Alabama]. They will win games.”
(Postscript: Alabama didn’t get in, despite being Georgia in the final regular season game and in the conference tournament.)
Here are the two conference’s tournament teams, including RPI.
♦ ACC: Duke (5), North Carolina (6), Florida State (46), Clemson (57)
♦ SEC: Florida (10), Kentucky (12), Vanderbilt (26), Tennessee (36), Georgia (39).
Seems kind of obvious which conference is better right now, doesn’t it?
By Jeff Schultz
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241 comments Add your comment
DawginLex
March 14th, 2011
2:41 pm
Child wants to be a doctor, not Pharmacist. Too much personality(like Dad) to sit behind a counter and fill pill bottles. Point is, Uk and Florida are very underrated schools academically. Vandy is a tough place to get in. Ole Miss has consistently been solid and even MSU is improving.
The whole stereotype of these schools not being tough is what hacks me off. I know what my kid is going through and I know what my friend’s kids are going through at Georgia and Florida and none of it is easy.
5150 UOAD
March 14th, 2011
2:42 pm
I didn’t say TECH was graduating a huge number of players. It was an ACC vs SEC thing. The ACC schools do very well in graduating athletes with degrees that Businesses & the Job Market actually want.
gdawginkalamazoo
March 14th, 2011
2:43 pm
RambleOn84, I loved the statistics post.
DawginLex, regarding the ESSBS link, thanks, that was a good read. If 5150 would read it, Auburn has an insurmountable lead at this point. However, with the great salaries these kids made while playing they will probably hire a few good lawyers. Maybe Auburn’s “dream team” of lawyers.
That or LegalZoom.com.
DawginLex
March 14th, 2011
2:44 pm
5150,
There are lots of comparisons
Clemson=Auburn with a lake
You really throwing Miami in as an academic giant?
Beast from the East
March 14th, 2011
2:44 pm
5150,
How does Tech contribute to the overall graduation rates for the ACC? Can you say dead last?
Texas Pete
March 14th, 2011
2:45 pm
2:25 PM – 5150 lost all credibility. LOL. He resorted to playing the education card when discussing sports. What does it say about the kid who did so much to get accepted to GT or Duke only to flunk out or change their major to something “easy” and cookie cutter like some General Business degree?
You cannot possibly get a good education at Alabama, Auburn, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, Vanderbilt, or even Mississippi State. Anyone with their future in mind would never attend an SEC school. There has never been a successful person to attend a class on any SEC campus.
Beast from the East
March 14th, 2011
2:47 pm
Texas Pete,
I think you’ve had too much hot sauce, buddy.
DawginLex
March 14th, 2011
2:48 pm
Beast,
I hope he had his tongue firmly in cheek when he typed
Paul in RDU
March 14th, 2011
2:51 pm
In 2011 Auburn has already set a record in the Fulmer Cup that is unlikely to ever be broken.
5150 UOAD
March 14th, 2011
2:52 pm
OK OK OK I know there are good student athletes that actually get good degrees in the ACC and the SEC. It has been proven over the years that the SEC is a win at All Cost Conference with academics for the athletes not on the top of the list of priorities. That is my point and it has been proven over the years. The SEC cares more about a Huge full stadium on Saturday and a full Trophy case more than having the Best and Brightest playing sports. Every school does it, but the SEC makes a Lifestyle of it.
Paul in RDU
March 14th, 2011
2:55 pm
Texas Pete,
When I was in grad school I attended a couple of seminars at UGA – I guess that means I’ll never be a successful person
5150 UOAD
March 14th, 2011
2:58 pm
Didn’t The Vols have those kids do an Armed Robbery on a convince store and the fight at The Bar Knoxville? How did UGA beat the VOLS then? I guess Auburn will be hard to beat. I just remember all the crap the VOLS had going and some how UGA took the Cup. Sorry if I am wrong there just seems to be a lot of time left to call a winner right now.
It is sad that there is actually a measuring stick for this and a pseudo award as well.
RambleOn84
March 14th, 2011
3:04 pm
Dawginlex,
Point taken about Clemson, but Miami actually IS a very good school…not that you can tell by looking at the football team.
Tide Rising
March 14th, 2011
3:09 pm
JSS,
You have some points but I can counter each of them. As you stated we did poorly at the beginning of the season and had some bad losses- particularly out of conference. My point is that while that is true it is also true that we played very well in conference- going 12-4 regular season, 13-5 overall, and 4-2 against the 4 sec east teams that did make the tournament.
Also the NCAA selection committee has traditionally gone with who has had the hotter hand as of late when looking at 2 similar overall records. Our trend was certainly up having won 17 of our last 22.
In most playoff considerations what you do in conference, in division, carries more weight than what you do non conference and out of division. This is not debateable. It is the first tiebreaker in the formula in determing a division or conference champion in practically any sport- pro or college. The division and conference accomplishments take precedence over what a team does nonconference. You see this in pro or college tiebreakers in football, pro basketball, baseball, etc. Only here the NCAA giving out of conference games played early in the season precedence over not only head to head but also conference and division success. Nowwhere else in pro or college sports do you see this backwards logic. You know it and I know it.
We’ll agree to politely disagree. In any event I’ll pull for the dawgs but to be honest with you I can’t see UGA or Bama advancing very far in the NCAA tourney. Or UT for that matter. UF or UK I can see as potentially going all the way.
5150 UOAD
March 14th, 2011
3:11 pm
Texas Pete
Had to be joking. Even this UGA hater(not really just a Tech fan) knows that the SEC members have graduated many great people in many fields of study.
gdawginkalamazoo
March 14th, 2011
3:16 pm
In that picture Mark Fox’s is yelling, “When you get between here and here Ware, I am going to call a timeout, got it, so don’t shoot, okay.”
5150 UOAD
March 14th, 2011
3:17 pm
Miami is one of the most diverse schools in the country. It is also a Private school. Miami is 52% non-white. There very few schools in the US that can claim an almost 50-50 break in White vs Non-white students. I say that in itself is impressive even if many of the non-whites play sports.
Tide Rising- Criminals by conference
March 14th, 2011
3:18 pm
Sports Illustrated recently did a study on criminality in D-1 football that focused on the top 25 programs last year but also on all college football 1-A programs. Here are some of the results- this was a record of college players with criminal records. Interesting results
According to our data the University of Pittsburgh had the most players with police records (22) which the school said in statement, was “unacceptable.” The school was followed by Iowa (18), Arkansas (18), Boise State (16) and Penn state (16).
Among the major conferences, the Big Ten led our list with 50 players. The ACC was next with 39. Then came the SEC (33), Big East (27), PAC-10 (19) and Big 12 (16).
There was good news: 11 schools had five or fewer run-ins with the law. One school came out completely clean – undefeated Rose Bowl champion Texas Christian University. Alabama also had fewer than 5.
RambleOn84
March 14th, 2011
3:25 pm
“Tide Rising,”
That study only included SI’s preseason top 25 teams.
Hence why TCU, with 0 arrests, showed up at #25.
Tide Rising- Criminals by conference
March 14th, 2011
3:28 pm
The Sports Illustrated focus was only on the teams that finished top 25. So if some of the dawg haters are wondering why Georgia isn’t represented due to their various off field issues last year its just because the dogs didn’t finish to 25.
RambleOn84
March 14th, 2011
3:29 pm
Additionally, is that study really surprising? Pittsburgh had a little over 1/4 (22 of 85) of its scholarship players with police records. A police record includes traffic tickets and the like.
The SI article was lazy and really told us nothing at the end of the day, especially since it failed to take those numbers and compare them to the overall student populations.
Tide Rising- Criminals by conference
March 14th, 2011
3:30 pm
Rambleon84,
Ooops. You are correct. It is in fact based on the preseason top 25.
RambleOn84
March 14th, 2011
3:32 pm
It’s cool, Tide…the article is confusing and not very useful.
The subject matter is intriguing, but there is no real in-depth investigation there. I find it to be rather lazy “journalism,” intended more for shock value than any real insight.
Tide Rising- Criminals by conference
March 14th, 2011
3:37 pm
Ramblon84,
That’s true. The numbers are misleading and aren’t really any worse than for the male student population at large. Still kinda interesting overall though and it has some relevance considering that nearly 40% of the incidents were for more serious crimes. Extrapolated across the overall numbers it still tells you something.
Nearly 40 percent of what we found were serious crimes. Fifty-six were arrested for so-called violent crimes – including 25 for assault and battery, robbery, domestic violence and sex crimes. Forty-one were arrested or cited for property crimes. The more than 100 drug and alcohol-related offenses, included 27 DUI’s.
Tide Rising- Criminals by conference
March 14th, 2011
3:42 pm
Rambleon84,
As far as lazy reporting hell I’ve come to expect that in practically all news. Rarely is the full story told. And while this article is misleading and a case of lazy reporting for shock value there is a little bit to glean from it. For instance I kinda have noticed over the years that Ark takes some very questionble personnel like Batman Carroll and that since Shula Saban has largely cleaned up the kind of guys he’s bringing in at Bama. And I’ve noticed sometimes in recruiting that we’ve backed off significantly several times from high profile recruits that went on to get in trouble at other schools.
Joe
March 14th, 2011
3:55 pm
If you had ACC SEC challenge using Sagarin computer for seeds and result the “down” ACC would win 10-2.
Jeff you’re drunk
Rating Team Rating Team Winner
3 Duke 12 UK Duke
15 UNC 18 UF UNC
40 VT 30 VU VU
42 CU 51 UT CU
44 FSU 52 UGA FSU
50 MD 60 AL MD
58 BC 80 Miss BC
65 UM 102 AR UM
92 NCST 118 SC NCST
103 UVA 123 MSU UVA
114 GT 223 LSU GT
249 WF 231 AU AU
Ncaa selection committee
March 14th, 2011
5:21 pm
In the history of the tourney no team from a major conference that went 12-4 or better has ever been denied a slot in the tourney. Until Alabama this year. What BS
Paul in RDU
March 14th, 2011
5:32 pm
BC @SC 85-70 W
CU @SC 60-64 L
FSU vs UF 51-55 L
FSU @AUB 60-65 L
GT vs UGA 72-73 L
UM vs Miss 86-73 W
UNC vs Vandy 65-72 L
UNC vs UK 75-73 W
UVA vs LSU 64-50 W
VT vs MSU 88-57 W
Overall 5-5
Jborodawg
March 14th, 2011
5:43 pm
Jeff’s parting sentence, “…the SEC is on the rise…”
No doubt about it as long as UGA and Ala continue to improve…and given that KY, Vandy, Fla remain top-tier…and then the occasional great season from AR, LSU and Awbun.
However, it’s a stretch to say the SEC is a better BB conference. Not with those perennial top 10 teams in the ACC. Maybe just for the moment and this tournament.
Great conversation starter!
MJC
March 14th, 2011
6:59 pm
Jeff, you went full retard on this one.
You never go full retard.
woebegong
March 14th, 2011
7:32 pm
Jeff, I think you got your readership statistics with this blog for the week.
UGASlobberknocker
March 14th, 2011
7:37 pm
Well who didnt know that? the SEC is better in every sport. Well, the ACC does have the SEC beat in lacrosse..ill give em that
UGASlobberknocker
March 14th, 2011
7:40 pm
Schultzie..youre good ..230 comments but Tim Tuckers blog today is over 350..Im thinking the diff is that just mentioning the ACC scared off a few people due to fear of boredom.
Maurice
March 14th, 2011
7:41 pm
I don’t really give RPI rankings that much weight, since it was used to get UAB in over Colorado, but using your logic Jeff, I guess the Lady Jackets have surpassed the Lady Bulldogs…
Go for 2
March 14th, 2011
8:16 pm
Jeff:
Really Jeff, this is your insight for a column?
That column had about as much effort, factual support as any make shift office email thrown together in two minutes. I guess the citing of an SEC Coach , John Calipari , pumping up his own conference is as good as any place start to demonstrate how shallow this piece is. Since I am now sure you do no fundamental research, I’ll share a little news flash with you; Coach Calipari used to also go on glowingly about the difficulty of playing in CUSA just a few years back when his Memphis Tigers rolled through it. Seriously, Jeff…this is your offering for March Madness Monday?
Also, if you look at conference RPI you’ll notice SEC (7th) was well behind the ACC (4th) (and Mountain West and Pac 10). I assume you just didn’t make the effort to research this (versus just leaving out an inconvenient fact).
I hope you are better than this.
gcs
March 14th, 2011
9:27 pm
“But still since 2000…”
Oh you just knew that was coming. Did you not read the article? Schultz is not talking about the past. He is talking about today and the future.
Today, the SEC is better and deeper and the future is heading moreso that way.
.
the ajc
March 14th, 2011
9:55 pm
Congrats Schultz, you can count! Now why are we paying you?
C C
March 15th, 2011
8:44 am
Jeff you are insane…and not in a good way this time.
Yes the SEC got one more team in the NCAAs but that’s only one partial, incomplete measure of the relative quality of the conferences. Look past the top 4-5 teams and see who those teams had to play during their conference schedule. Also there were TWO ACC teams which just missed the cut (and we all know VA Tech got hosed). Meanwhile the ONLY other SEC team which had any hope of getting in was Alabama…who had by far the worst RPI of any bubble team.
Although the ACC down this year it’s still ahead of the SEC overall. Look at any measure/rating, and top-to-bottom the ACC is still ahead. And let’s see how many teams are left from each conference after 2, 3, or more games.
IMO this year, the top 2 ACC teams are better than the top 2 in the SEC. Comparing the 3rd and 4th best teams in each conf, the SEC is probably better although it’s close (and UT has al lot of bad losses for example). The middle 4 teams and the lower 4 teams are each better in the ACC. Beating those middle and lower-tier ACC teams on the road is more difficult than the mid/lower tier SEC ones.
For example Sagarin’s conference ratings for this year have the ACC 4th overall, the SEC 7th. The ACC has almost always been in the top 2 or 3 conferences for at least 25 or 30 years, often #1, and never anywhere near as bad as 7th. The current Sagarin order:
1 Big East
2 Big Ten
3 Big 12
4 ACC
5 Mountain West
6 Pac 10
7 SEC
So how is the 7th-rated conference better than the 4th rated one? Pretty huge difference Jeff.
C C
March 15th, 2011
8:45 am
Jeff,
Also it doesn’t look like your RPI’s are current. UGA’s has dropped to well below 39, for example.
Losing twice in one week to a team with an 80-ish RPI will do that to you.
UGA was very lucky to get a 10 seed. Will need their ‘A’ game to get past Washington. Zero chance against UNC: Obvoiusly, they aren’t remotely the same Heels who somehow lost at GT by 20.
C C
March 15th, 2011
8:59 am
@ Maurice “but using your logic Jeff, I guess the Lady Jackets have surpassed the Lady Bulldogs…”
Although the Lady Bulldogs have been a very strong program for a long time, Jeff is talking about *this year*. Unlike his ACC vs SEC numbers which do not hold up for the conferences overall, as several people have demonstrated, an argument can be made that GT has a better women’s team this year:
The Lady Jackets did beat UGA by 16 head-to-head this year, are currently ranked more highly than UGA, and are seeded more highly in the NCAAs. (The rankings are pretty close, yes.) GT women’s basketball has improved GREATLY during the last few years. SEC men’s basketball…not so.
Although it’s not the same as football, there are still only a few major conferences for b’ball, and the SEC is only 7th.
Joshua Barlowe
March 21st, 2011
10:59 am
The ACC is still better (as shown by 3 teams in the sweet 16) and here’s the bad news for Dog fans:
Mark Fox is headed for NC State and Tech got rid of Hewitt. So the ride is over. Hope you enjoyed it.