NCAA tournament: SEC (Georgia) has passed ACC (Tech)
Georgia has punctuated SEC's rise in basketball by making tournament. (Jason Getz/AJC)
Georgia obviously is ahead of Georgia Tech in basketball right now.
But has the SEC also moved past the ACC?
When the NCAA tournament field was announced Sunday night, the SEC had more teams (five) in the bracket than the ACC (four — and that includes Clemson, which must play a preliminary round game against Alabama-Birmingham Tuesday).
The ACC has two of the top six teams in the country, Duke and North Carolina, according to RPI. But the conference was obviously down this season. The SEC is on the rise, led by the improvement at Georgia under coach Mark Fox.
This isn’t a debate about “tradition” but rather where things are at right now. After Kentucky beat Florida Sunday, and before the tournament field was announced, coach John Calipari said: “I hope, I really hope, that Georgia’s in. I really hope that Alabama’s in. I really do. This league is better than everybody wants to give it credit for. The coaching and the players are outstanding. And there were talking heads today — I usually don’t listen to Digger Phelps because he’s usually wrong — but he said that when those teams get in the tournament, they win games. And I’m telling you, we lost to both of those teams [Georgia and Alabama]. They will win games.”
(Postscript: Alabama didn’t get in, despite being Georgia in the final regular season game and in the conference tournament.)
Here are the two conference’s tournament teams, including RPI.
♦ ACC: Duke (5), North Carolina (6), Florida State (46), Clemson (57)
♦ SEC: Florida (10), Kentucky (12), Vanderbilt (26), Tennessee (36), Georgia (39).
Seems kind of obvious which conference is better right now, doesn’t it?
By Jeff Schultz
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241 comments Add your comment
woebegong
March 14th, 2011
12:57 pm
Kind of hard for me to think the ACC hasn’t been any good since the 80’s, given the national titles they have one since then in BB. Conferences can have down years just like teams do and it can stretch for a couple of years even. Kentucy has won a couple of championships since the 80’s and I think Arkansas won one during that time, but I think the ACC probably has at least doubled that total in that 40 year time span.
I would think the SEC would have to be better over a longer period of time, before the mantel is passed to them, right now. Say like a period of five years or more.
headley lamar
March 14th, 2011
12:58 pm
has anyone ever called you “mutt” before?
Not that I can remember.
But you can if you want. What do I care.
Go Big Blue
March 14th, 2011
1:00 pm
Hate on UK all you want, but they will force this conference to be better. Not to mention the SEC has the TV contract with ESPN. Getting to play on national TV two-three times a week should help recruiting. UGA is on the rise, UT needs to figure out what to do with Pearl, and LSU/Arkansas need to do better. Florida is a great program as well.
woebegong
March 14th, 2011
1:02 pm
12:57 post corrections.
National titles they have “won”
And I don’t even drink. Perhaps I need to start though.
Tifton
March 14th, 2011
1:04 pm
Jeff the point I was trying to make is that you throw out a statement that the SEC has passed the ACC in basketball base on what? The fact that they got 5 teams into the tourney.
The other point is too often when arguing conference strength in football the argument is to look at the NCs and for the past six years the SEC has dominated college football if that is the measuring stick. But yet when it comes to college basketball that measuring stick seems to go away in your piece in what I see as attempt to make the home SEC crowd in the ATL happy.
When the dicussion turns to basketball and the fact that UNC and Duke have won the past two NCs and right now look to be two of the strongest teams in the field none of that matters. These two programs as much as I despise Coach K are the best programs over the long haul in college basketball the last 20 years. Much like Alabama and UF in football. Just use the same criteria when arguing greatness for both sports is all I am saying.
Plus we both know that the ACC will get 2 into the Round of 16 and the SEC will get 1. Too many teams beyond UF, Duke, and UNC with too many holes for good teams to exploit. Teams like George Mason and Butler advanced because they were experienced teams with solid fundamentals. Name for me one team in this list: UGA, UT, Vandy, FSU, Kentucky, and Clemson that fit that criteria.
UF and Duke are veteran teams and you can never question Duke’s fundamentals. And can somebody explain how UNC can go 19-3 to close out the season and yet people question how deep they can go. Teams on runs tend to continue playing well over this tourney and beyond these three none of the other 8 teams from the ACC or SEC are playing consistently good bball.
bob
March 14th, 2011
1:13 pm
They should give Mark Fox a big fat long contract that rolls over every year automatically with a big buy out clause. What could go wrong?
ND Leprechaun
March 14th, 2011
1:16 pm
Big East is far superior to either conferences. Go Irish!
bob
March 14th, 2011
1:17 pm
Why is everyone complaining about seeds? If you are a 2 or 3 or 4 you get a couple of bubble boys, then you have to beat 4 good or hot teams to be the champs. Prove it on the court, not by voters.
JB
March 14th, 2011
1:20 pm
The BIG test for fox will come next year when he loses his two studs. Don’t know if Dawgs have the depth to show up pretty good next year. Better than Felton, yes, get back to the dance, doubtful.
headley lamar
March 14th, 2011
1:20 pm
Jeff the point I was trying to make is that you throw out a statement that the SEC has passed the ACC in basketball base on what? The fact that they got 5 teams into the tourney.
Id say that’s a pretty good indicator.
Your trying to compare Football to Basketball and draw some kind of conclusion.
Apples to Oranges.
Bottom line. SEC is far superior in football and has nudged ahead in basketball.
I know that hurts your ACC feelings but its true.
headley lamar
March 14th, 2011
1:22 pm
The BIG test for fox will come next year when he loses his two studs
Id think Leslie would come back. He is nowhere near polished enough for the NBA.
Thompkins will probably go.
USC Jimi
March 14th, 2011
1:23 pm
Bowl bids and tournament invites do not make for apples and apples. Before the football season starts either conference is committed to X number of bowl bids. There is no such assurance of tournament entrees. You only have one automatic entry to the big dance. The SEC has always been underrated in basketball. The ACC has always been underrated in football. The Big Ten is overrated in everything.
Buckeye
March 14th, 2011
1:25 pm
If Bob Knight signs on with GT I’ve got 4 tickets on the 50 for the Akron game for you.
Harry from da Burn
March 14th, 2011
1:25 pm
HAHA. Hey Jeff, Who did you know in AJC to get this job?? The tournament hasn’t even started yet. And one season doesn’t put a conference ahead of another. SEC isn’t that great, everyone who watches college basketball knows this. Only 1 maybe 2 SEC teams get out of the first round. Believe that like a rat said it son.
Buckeye
March 14th, 2011
1:29 pm
I’ll take the combined W’s of Ohio State Wisconsin and Purdue against the combined W’s of any three from the SEC or the ACC.
I’ll put up 4 tickets on the 50 for the Toledo game.
Buckeye
March 14th, 2011
1:30 pm
USC Jimi,
You in, Mr. Over/Under rated?
woebegong
March 14th, 2011
1:31 pm
Buckeye,
Got to agree with you there. Not a real good chance he will come out of retirement to coach again. He has got to be in his late 60’s at least I think. He looks a lot older than me in his recent advertisement on TV and that is going some, LOL. Shoot, all my hair is white and he still has a some gray in his.
On another subject, they sure as heck gave Ohio State a tough tournament as far as opponents go though. NC and Kentucy both in their conference. That ought to make for some goos BB, if all survive.
Harry from da Burn
March 14th, 2011
1:33 pm
Hey Buckeye, doesn’t the SEC own Ohio State?
Buckeye
March 14th, 2011
1:46 pm
Woe,
Could have some great games…..Kentucky, North Carolina, UCON, Duke in the Final Four. If we stay true to form from 3 point range I’ll take on anybody, anywhere. If we have cold streak, which we did against Northwestern after going 13/14, we’ll take one on the chin.
I’m also pulling for Clemson. Watched Tanner Smith play high school ball with Howard ( before I was Trey). The two of them were something else.
RambleOn84
March 14th, 2011
1:46 pm
Did I really read that the ACC hasn’t been good since the ’80s?
Didn’t the ACC win HALF the titles of the last decade?
Buckeye
March 14th, 2011
1:49 pm
Harry,
Not in March. Noticed your ballers were last in the West and no one from the West is doing the two-step. Funny, you can’t even root against Alabama for the next few weeks.
And to think I supported you and your traditions when the Toomer’ Corner story broke.
Fool me once, Harry.
ACC Fan
March 14th, 2011
1:55 pm
I believe that most any team in the ACC except Wake and Ga. Tech could beat Georgia (Tech lost by 1 pt.) and Tennessee even though it is a relatively down year for the ACC. The ACC teams did beat up on each other which didn’t help their records. Let’s see how long Georgia and Tennessee last in the tournament. They will be lucky to get past the first round.
The Washington Huskies
March 14th, 2011
1:59 pm
ACC Fan,
I can personally guarantee Georgia won’t get past the first game.
Texas Pete
March 14th, 2011
2:01 pm
SEC Football > ACC Basketball
Basketball Champions since 2000
Duke
UNC
Kansas
Florida
Florida
UNC
UCONN
Syracuse
Maryland
Duke
Michigan State
ACC – 5, Big East – 2, SEC – 2, Big Twelve – 1, Big Ten – 1
Football Champions since 2000
Auburn
Alabama
Florida
LSU
Florida
Texas
USC
LSU
OSU
Miami
Oklahoma
SEC – 6, Big Twelve – 2, Pac Ten – 1, Big Ten – 1, Big East – 1
If you go back to 1990 you can add 3 more ACC national basketball championships from Duke and UNC as well as 3 more SEC national championships from Tennessee, Florida, and Alabama. So the trend continues. ACC basketball is simply top heavy and that hasn’t changed in a long time. SEC football has more teams capable of winning a championship. As I said before, the depth of SEC football is greater than ACC basketball.
The more interesting fact is to flip it and start counting ACC football national champions against SEC basketball national champions. Going back to 2000 you’ll see Florida winning basketball titles but I don’t see any ACC teams winning football championships. Go back to 1990 and you have one trick pony FSU and Tech splitting with Colorado in 1990. In basketball you have Kentucky and Arkansas winning it all.
The SEC appears to be deeper over time in both sports while the ACC depends more on their traditional top teams for each sport. But to throw the ACC a bone, the Duke-UNC basketball duo might be the most formidable 1-2 punch in all of college sports going conference-by-conference over the past 20 years. It’s bigger than Texas-OU in football, OSU-Michigan in football, and I can’t think of another basketball combo from a single conference worth mentioning. Kentucky-Arkansas would have probably been in the discussion had Nolan Richardson not lost his mind (oh what could have been). SEC football doesn’t have a duo. Over 20 years it’s Alabama-LSU-Florida.
gdawginkalamazoo
March 14th, 2011
2:03 pm
We were behind Tech? When?
JSS
March 14th, 2011
2:03 pm
Tide Rising
March 14th, 2011
12:11 pm
“How do you explain that?”
I lobbied for Alabama making the field of 68. Instead of Southern California or Colorado. But I’m going to play the Committee for a minute, entertain this for a minute.
I look at Alabama and their schedule. I look at their wins. I look at their conference. I look at their division within that conference. I look at what they did in their losses. I look again at “what the teams they loss to did.” Then I say to them, were the losses to quality opponents? Then I have to re-look at whether their conference was truly strong. 2) Did the conference play enhance them?
The answer to all of those questions were that no, Alabama was a team lost to too many really bad basketball teams early. There case against tournament teams were that they only beat teams inside their conference and those games were home games with the exception of one (UT). Your chance at getting into the tournament died at Vanderbilt and in Gainesville. From that point forward, Alabama needed to win the SEC Tournament outright. The wins over UGA only put them back on the Selection Committee line to be one of the two 11/12 that would be playing in Dayton tomorrow if they had pulled it off…
To me, that is how the scenario played out… Is that fair and clear enough of an explanation?
Whiskey Clear
March 14th, 2011
2:03 pm
5/10. Until the SEC can consistently win the big one with multiple teams, they will not be better than the ACC. And with the teams they have in the tourney this year, I don’t see them winning the big one again. Sorry.
Beast from the East
March 14th, 2011
2:04 pm
Gotta love all these guarantees and “mark it down” comments. If you people knew half as much as you thought you did, then why not bet your life savings and just retire after the tourney? Me, I voice my opinion but offer no guarantees. I’ve seen way too many upsets over the years to place my hard earned cash on any sporting event…..especially the NCAA tournament. About the closest thing to a sure bet is the #1 seeds versus the #16 seeds. Other than that, anything can and has happened.
DawginLex
March 14th, 2011
2:06 pm
Buckeye,
Wisconsin sucks.
Watching them play is equivalent to watching grass grow. I actually would get more excitement out of the lawn.
Bo Ryan’s style of play puts basketball back 100 years.
Can’t wait for Belmont to expose them for the fraud they are.
5150 UOAD
March 14th, 2011
2:10 pm
Dan
March 14th, 2011
12:48 pm
Jeff – agreed SEC has passed the ACC in basketball for now.
Hard to recall when the ACC was the gold standard of college basketball for decades, a distinction now held by the Big East.
DAN since the Big East has won 3 NCAA tourneys by 2 teams since 1990, UConn and Syracuse. In that time the ACC has 8 NCAA National Champions and the SEC has 5, but you think the Big East is the Basketball King? AHHAHAHA OK. 20 teams in the big east makes them great but they don’t play in all the sports like football and baseball. Hell the ACC should offer members to join that just want to play basketball. Just for fun the ACC add close to home schools just in Bball. Florida, UGA, Vandy, UT, USC, and Kentucky join the ACC and then the Big East would never be heard of again. That would 13 NCAA Champions since 1990 to 3 for the Big East that could be fun.
JSS
March 14th, 2011
2:20 pm
But the style of play of Auburn, Ole Miss, and South Carolina are something any sane wants to watch? Wisconsin grinds, they aren’t looking to be beautiful… Do I want my team to play that way? Nope, but it happens to get them there as it did at Washington State…
JSS
March 14th, 2011
2:23 pm
And I picked Belmont not because they are going to expose Wisconsin; but because they are better team in that match-up…
DawginLex
March 14th, 2011
2:23 pm
http://www.everydayshouldbesaturday.com/
********************************************
For WDE
Auburn wraps up 2011 Fulmer Cup
5150 UOAD
March 14th, 2011
2:25 pm
Put the ACC and the SEC head to head in everything. Everything is getting kids to graduate with a Degree that matters in the JOB Market. SEC football is God with ESPN helping to sell it. ACC is Basketball God and beyond the SECs reach when it comes to EDUCATING Student athletes on a diverse campus in VALUABLE degrees.
Dean Wormer said it best, “Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life, son.” That describes the SEC student Athlete and most of their fans,
headley lamar
March 14th, 2011
2:28 pm
Hey Buckeye, doesn’t the SEC own Ohio State?
They do.
But they have a million excuses for it.
Too warm. Long layoff. Playing in the south. Etc etc etc
DawginLex
March 14th, 2011
2:29 pm
5150 you are FOS
My kid goes to UK and is getting tail kicked in Organic Chemistry and Physics. The UK Pharmacy program is one of the top 5 in the country. Vandy is a better school than all of the ACC schools put together.
Go spew your holier than thou BS somewhere else because it doesn’t fly.
Buckeye
March 14th, 2011
2:29 pm
DawginLex,
Wisconsin doesn’t suck. The Gov signed the bill.
Their style of play sucks.
5150 UOAD
March 14th, 2011
2:30 pm
DawginLex the Fulmer Cup for 2011 just started. How has Auburn already won it? Tennessee doesn’t even have all their new players on campus same for UGA. STILL 8 good months for UGA to pull out another winner. UGA wrapped it up late last year. Be confident! UGA is a real gamer in the Fulmer Cup. Don’t write then off so early. Have confidence in Richt and the boys to keep working hard for a BACK to Back year.
DawginLex
March 14th, 2011
2:31 pm
5150 Read the article. Auburn has an insurmountable lead.
28 more episodes of riding a moped will never equal all those felonies
Buckeye
March 14th, 2011
2:31 pm
Headly,
You are a genious. Your orginal thoughts on the topic of the day are spellbinding. Thank you for sharing them! Perhaps DawginLex can repost his list for you to make your posting efforts less taxing.
headley lamar
March 14th, 2011
2:32 pm
EDUCATING Student athletes on a diverse campus in VALUABLE degrees.
What are you smoking?
Tech hasn’t graduated a basketball player in years.
Most ACC schools are exactly the same. They dont graduate anybody.
Spare me the academic superiority crap because the stats show it just isnt true.
Jeff Capel fired — should he be a candidate at Georgia Tech? | Jeff Schultz
March 14th, 2011
2:34 pm
[...] – NCAA tournament: SEC (Georgia) has passed ACC (Tech) [...]
RambleOn84
March 14th, 2011
2:35 pm
Statistics are like a bikini…what they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital
sliderule
March 14th, 2011
2:36 pm
FWIW ranking by Ken Pomeroy @ kenpom.com
Ranking of conferences by average rating of the teams
Conference Rating Conference Rating
1 Big Ten Conference .8906 18 Mid American Conference .3586
2 Big East Conference .8719 19 Summit League .3534
3 Big 12 Conference .8481 20 Atlantic Sun Conference .3461
4 Atlantic Coast Conference .8276 21 Southern Conference .3370
5 Pac 10 Conference .7952 22 Ohio Valley Conference .3331
6 Mountain West Conference .7809 23 Big Sky Conference .3328
7 Southeastern Conference .7650 24 Patriot League .3186
8 Conference USA .6575 25 Northeast Conference .2998
9 Atlantic 10 Conference .6078 26 Sun Belt Conference .2958
10 Western Athletic Conference .5946 27 Big South Conference .2952
11 West Coast Conference .5717 28 Southland Conference .2698
12 Horizon League .5649 29 America East Conference .2473
13 Colonial Athletic Association .5509 30 Mid-Eastern Athletic Conference .1350
14 Missouri Valley Conference .5216 31 Independents .1137
15 Metro Atlantic Athletic Conference .4259 32 Great West Conference .0936
16 Ivy League .4176 33 Southwestern Athletic Conference .0763
17 Big West Conference .4099
UGA REALLY STANDS FOR JOE DIRT
March 14th, 2011
2:37 pm
The ACC has won the last 2 national titles and and have plenty in the books! UGA barely beat a horrible GT team and so how much better are they really? Not much! GT has played for a national title in the past decade and been to the big dance 3 times as much as uga in the past decade alone!
UGA better this year, yes…overall as a program, HELL NO! Jeff, put down the weed buddy!
Beast from the East
March 14th, 2011
2:37 pm
5150,
I usually enjoy your wit, but come on man! How can anyone from Tech talk about graduating student athletes? Do you really want to go there? I can do some quick research if you’d like. Just let me know. LOL!
headley lamar
March 14th, 2011
2:37 pm
Here is my stat
Number of SEC teams in the tourney 5
A She She 4
5150 UOAD
March 14th, 2011
2:37 pm
OK DAWGinLex
Vandy is equal with Duke in the medical dept. Vandy is not better than every school in the ACC.
So is your kid studying to be a Trailer Park Pharmacist? Wee-Haw you will be rolling in METH money in no time.
Really congrats on your child on working hard and studying in a usable field after gradation. Not like UGA players in housing, consumerism, magazine advertising, of Jr year students in Pre-Business. Hope you child is making you so very proud.
GTBob
March 14th, 2011
2:39 pm
Tech hasn’t graduated a basketball player in years.
There was a Ga Tech basketball player that graduated just last semester.
RambleOn84
March 14th, 2011
2:41 pm
That’s cute, Headley…
I just thought of a really good one, though…the Ass E She…