Hawks’ Sund puts onus on players: ‘Challenge is up to them’
Mike Bibby isn't always this overmatched. It just seems like it.
Let’s dispense of the whines first, because it’s impossible to debate the Hawks’ future without the obvious elephant in the locker room, or in this case the entire herd:
♦ They have a slow and inefficient starting point guard (Mike Bibby) who averages 9.6 points and 3.7 assists, which would be fine if this was a 40-and-over league or a YMCA in Springfield, Mass., in 1891.
♦ They have an occasionally dominating forward (Josh Smith) who sometimes forgets that there’s a whole world of possibilities inside the paint.
♦ They have another forward (Marvin Williams) who was the draft’s second pick but has proven to be little more than a $7 million-a-year rotational player (if that).
♦ They have a roster resilient enough to record the third-best road record in the Eastern Conference (17-12) but schizoid enough to lose home games by 23, 41 and 34 points.
Now let’s discuss reality.
Whether or not general manager Rick Sund makes a move to improve the team’s fortunes – and it’s significant that he’ll be traveling with the club on a five-game trip that opens the post-All Star stretch – the Hawks will win or lose with this bunch. The chances of Sund spinning any earth-shattering deal are directly proportional to Carmelo Anthony suddenly declaring, “I hate New York! I want to be a Hawk!”
This is your team.
Joe Johnson stayed. Smith stayed. Bibby stayed. Williams stayed. The only change of significance the Hawks made after being swept in the second round of the playoffs two straight years was to fire coach Mike Woodson. The message delivered: This is the core — let’s see where it takes us.
Time’s about up. If the Hawks don’t do something this season that makes us stop slapping our forehead, blow the sucker up.
Sund never has been one for public analysis during the season. He certainly doesn’t discuss trade possibilities.
But he did say this Sunday: “The next two months and our performance in the playoffs will indicate as to exactly what this team is. The challenge is up to them.”
And this: “We’ve put ourselves in position to do something, so let’s see where it goes. We have to do it collectively and with chemistry and coaching and all that.”
I think he just said: “Bob Pettit is not walking through that door.”
We can debate whether retaining this core for another season was right or wrong. But it’s significant that Sund is declaring it’s show-me time. The Hawks obviously aren’t as good as Boston or Miami. But they’ve shown at times they can be better than a second-round punchline. They won at Miami a few weeks ago without Al Horford (which is more significant than the Heat missing Chris Bosh). They’ve beaten every East team currently in a playoff position except Boston (0-2) and Chicago (whom they haven’t played). The Hawks are a combined 10-4 against Miami (1-1), Orlando (2-1), New York (2-1), Philadelphia (2-1) and Indiana (3-0).
Sund again: “I think our players feel like they can play with anybody. It’s the first time in the last two years I’ve sensed that.”
Yes, this team is flawed. The most fixable problem is point guard. Cleveland’s Ramon Sessions, the object of trade rumors, isn’t an All-Star or a great scorer. But he’s younger, faster and would be a significant upgrade to Bibby, Jeff Teague and Jamal Crawford (who is better as a scorer coming off the bench). Sessions is playing fewer minutes than Bibby but he’s averaging more points (12.3) and assists (5.3) and is better defensively.
Bibby’s three-year, $18 million extension in 2009 is looking like an albatross. He was far more effective in his contract year (15 points, 5 assists) than now (he ranks 40th overall and 25th among point guards at 3.7 assists per game). As a team, the Hawks have the second-fewest steals (5.9) and are forcing the second-fewest turnovers (12.7) per game. That stems at least in part from a lack of defense up top.
The trade deadline is Thursday. If Sund makes a change, it won’t be the equivalent of major reconstruction. More like a new couch and a couple of throw pillows.
This is your team — maybe for the last time.
By Jeff Schultz
♦
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♦ Hawks’ Rick Sund puts onus on players: ‘Challenge is up to them’
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121 comments Add your comment
Tony Adams
February 20th, 2011
5:05 pm
I refuse to be first.
5150 UOAD
February 20th, 2011
5:09 pm
You going to cover the tech Duke game tonight? I guess you are in ATL it sounds like.
bgdawg
February 20th, 2011
5:10 pm
im not sure sessions is what the team needs right now.
Jamaaliver
February 20th, 2011
5:18 pm
Blow it all up and build around Horford and JJ. We started the whole rebuilding process after the 1999 season because we were an average team and were essentially irrelevant in the NBA landscape. Sound familiar?
San Antonio has shown that stellar drafting and top flight coaching can keep your team competitive even with payroll limitations.
Let’s take that approach and invest in our scouting and coaching staffs.
Najeh Davenpoop
February 20th, 2011
5:34 pm
Convenient approach by a GM who has emphatically proven over 31 years that he is incapable of building a serious contender.
rollo lawson
February 20th, 2011
5:38 pm
This team wouldbe so much improved with Sessions, Will Bynum, Hinrich, Bayless (Toronto), Toney Douglas, or any other second tier pg right now. We have a very stupid front office. I was watching all-star weekend festivities fridy night. We haven’t had a player in the rookie/sophomore challenge since Horford. We could have taken Dejuan Blair 2 years ago, but passed. God knows we needed/still need size down low. Who did we pick? Probably some stiff out of Europe.
Najeh Davenpoop
February 20th, 2011
5:38 pm
Here’s your new couch and throw pillows.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=4ukp8yw
Good luck getting Sund to do anything half this creative.
Other than the Jamal Crawford trade — which was admittedly a very good one — all he has done is overpay to keep players Billy Knight acquired. And so far, he has accomplished absolutely nothing with the draft picks he has made — although this only falls in line with his horrible draft history throughout his career.
rollo lawson
February 20th, 2011
5:40 pm
P.S.
Why did we re-sign Zaza, Marvin, and Bibby 2 years ago? Dumb moves!!
ATLman
February 20th, 2011
5:40 pm
Ramon Sessions would be a welcome addition and maybe give the Hawks the jolt they need. But I doubt Sund makes any move at all. He is like the polar opposite of Frank Wren. Which is not always a good thing. Make something happen Sund, we know this team won’t get past the 2nd rd as is…or is that good enough for you?
South ga boy in the atl
February 20th, 2011
5:40 pm
Blow it up, thanks to Billy “I never saw a forward I wouldn’t draft” Knight. 2 of the 3 best players on the team play the same position (Al and Josh). Add Marvin to the mix and we have 3 lottery picks to play 2 positions. If just one of those picks had gone to a PG, this team could compete. Add Chills and Sheldon and u have 5 lottery picks for TWO starting positions. What a dumb@$$ Knight was. I say again, just one PG out of 5 lottery picks and this is a totally different conversation
Najeh Davenpoop
February 20th, 2011
5:43 pm
“He is like the polar opposite of Frank Wren. ”
I have thought the same thing too. I’m not the biggest Frank Wren fan, but at least he’s willing to shake things up to try to make something happen. Ankiel and Farnsworth may not have panned out as expected, but at least he took responsibility for a roster that he didn’t feel was good enough and tried to improve it. Sund is the ultimate blame shifter. Always sitting on his hands, always parroting the ownership’s “we like our core” line, and always playing second fiddle to the league’s real contenders. In short, a perfect fit for this ownership group.
We
February 20th, 2011
5:45 pm
GO HAWKS….. AND TAKE THE FALCONS WITH YOU!
Now you see em, now they burnt off!
February 20th, 2011
5:46 pm
Maybe Larry Drew should shave off his eyebrows…
UGASlobberknocker
February 20th, 2011
5:49 pm
Good for him.I hope Sund will blow this team up. IMO Horford is the only one who you can count on for 100% effort every game. I would start by getting rid of Coach Drew who is obviously over matched. I would keep Horford and Josh (who still needs a good coach to make him a complete and consistent player)..the rest of them I can do without. Johnson is nowhere near a max contract type player.Trade him for picks if nothing else. Bibby is over the hill. Marvin is a wasted talent. Zaza seems to have slipped. Overall.. DAMN! I thought this team would be much better than it has turned out to be. I hope I am wrong but I predict an early first round exit . As Barkley sings..I may be wrong..but I doubt it.
J.J.M.
February 20th, 2011
5:53 pm
long as zaza is gone im good
ACE OF HEARTS
February 20th, 2011
5:53 pm
There has to be an unwritten law somewhere that all Atlanta teams must under acheive. This is with the exception of the 1998 Falcons, no one saw a super bowl team there. So while it is unlikely, maybe this group catches fire at the end of the season and wins two rounds in the playoffs.
steve brown
February 20th, 2011
6:12 pm
Does Sund actually watch the hawks play or is he just delusional?
SPORTSGIRL
February 20th, 2011
6:24 pm
Y do people only critisize the hawks give everyother team a pass?? I don’t care how much of a golden boy Matt Ryan is he still hasn’t won a playoff game and that is the truth you can’t sugar coat it point blank. The hawks haven’t made it past the 2nd round but they have won the playoff game. Falcons have not
NCBravesFan
February 20th, 2011
6:27 pm
steve brown @ 6:12 – I think it may be yes on both counts.
If a trade can be made that nabs a starting PG and puts Bibby in a bench role, Sund should do it no question. It’s the best thing he can do to maximize available resources without disrupting the core of the team.
As constructed currently, this team will most likely not be in the playoff dance very long.
All I'm Saying Is...
February 20th, 2011
6:28 pm
First of all, believe it or not but this team could make it to the Eastern Conference finals. They have a big enough body to play Dwight Howard straight-up. And have proven they can beat Miami. We’ll have to wait and see how they match-up with Chicago but someone else could knock them off and then it could be the Hawks vs. Celtics.
Second, Sund is using the “up to the players” line as a cop-out. Sund could have signed (Shaq) or traded for (Tyson Chandler) a real Center and instead has decided Jason Collins is the answer. With either of those guys, this team could contend for the NBA Finals.
Third, seems to me that the G.M. for the Spurs always seems to find new players out of nowhere who come in and contribute to their team and they’ve done it again with that kid who had to leave LaSalle due to false rape charges (he was acquitted of all charges down the road but after the school gave up on him). Why is it that our G.M. can’t do the same?
One thing that is true is that our playoff performance may be used to justify blowing up the major pieces by trading Josh Smith and some other throw-ins. If it comes to that, we can only pray that Sund surprises us all by getting some major talent in return.
LET’S GO HAWKS!
Tremaine
February 20th, 2011
6:45 pm
“GIVE TEAGUE A CHANCE!”
barney strickland
February 20th, 2011
6:48 pm
Don’t you fools know a holding pattern when you see one? This ownership group is hemorrhaging cash…losing lotsa money every day. I BET THEY SELL THE HAWKS BEFORE THE THRASHERS. bank on it… you idiots. Jeff, just remember who told you this on your blog first? Got that? B-A-R-N-E-Y S-T-R-I-C-K-L-A-N-D……
cdog
February 20th, 2011
6:53 pm
HUEY LEWIS DESCRIBE RICK SUND AT BEST IN HIS SONG, KEEP ON DREAMING.IT IS A DREAM FOR ALL YOU HAWK FANS WHO KEEP BELIEVING IN SUND AS A GM. WHETHER I SAY IT IN CAPS OR SMALL LETTERS, I SPEAK THE TRUTH ABOUT SUND, HE’S TERRIBLE AS A GM. WHEN HE’S GONE AND A COMPETENT GM IS HIRED WHO WANTS TO WIN CHAMPIONSHIP, ONLY THEN WILL THE HAWKS BEGIN TO GO IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.
RomeDawg
February 20th, 2011
6:56 pm
Although Sessions is an upgrade over Bibby, I think we should look around a little more and not fall in love with him just because he might be had easily.
welikebaseball2
February 20th, 2011
7:00 pm
Seriously? Wow. So, what he’s saying is we can kill our hopes of being a factor in this year’s playoffs. Go figure. He’s still trying to figure our “what this team is”? Wow. I’ll tell you what this team is, good enough to make it past the 1st round of the playoffs & bad enough to be embarrassed in the 2nd round…yet again. How many more seasons/off-season’s will go by with him waiting to see what we’ve got? The fans know what we’ve got. Shoot, the whole league knows what we’ve got. The verdict is in, Sund’s refusal to open the envelope & read it doesn’t change reality. Maybe he thinks we’re stupid.
Willy
February 20th, 2011
7:04 pm
Another thing the Hawks can’t fix is that they’ve tuned out their coach already. Case in point – the first six games the Hawks shot 171 free throws – the last six 109. I don’t recall Drew talking about turning the Hawks into a bunch of lazy jump-shooters.
Robert
February 20th, 2011
7:08 pm
I second “Give Teague a chance.” When he gets in, he makes things happen with defense and speed. Needs more minutes at times that matter.
JSS
February 20th, 2011
7:10 pm
Driiiiiiiiiiiiiiiive by Hawks Blog!!!
Jeff Schultz
February 20th, 2011
7:10 pm
Rollo Lawson — Indeed, those three decisions aren’t look good today.
Jeff Schultz
February 20th, 2011
7:13 pm
JSS – actually, I pulled over before I blogged. Drive-by’s more like 3 to 4 grafs.
cdog
February 20th, 2011
7:15 pm
WE, THATS NOT THE CASE ANYMORE.LEAVE THE FALCONS BUT TAKE RICK SUND
Gravy Train
February 20th, 2011
7:33 pm
I wish a local real basketball owner would step forward for the Hawks. Being connected to an anemic NHL franchise is bad, as bad as over paying for a punk with no basketball I.Q. Yeah you, J Smoove. Trade Bibby, Marvin, Zaza, and Josh Whiff for a real center and a real point guard. Utah will be looking to move D. Will and Portland will be needing to move some bigs. I think we will have to get new owners and a new GM first.
tony
February 20th, 2011
7:43 pm
The only thing that will make this team better is a coaching change. It was not a smart move to hire Mike Woodson’s assistent coach in the 1st place. This team has become more disfunctional since LD took over. A smart gm could recognize this without allowing himself to be scrutinize by the media and the fans.
Sund need to hire Bill Laimbeer after this season and he doesn’t need to make any unnecessary changes until he hire a better coach. This team isn’t going very far in the playoffs even if they sign Carmelo Anthony. Change has to be made in the coaching department in order for this team to move in a positive direction.
If Sund make a trade before he decide to make a coaching change, he and the ASG need to start packing their bags.
GT Alum
February 20th, 2011
7:44 pm
SPORTSGIRL -
There’s a little bit of a difference. For one, JJ’s in his 6th year in a Hawks’ uni; Ryan just completed his 3rd year as a Falcon. The Falcons are about where the Hawks were 3 seasons ago. If they can’t make some noise in the playoffs next season, they’ll start to feel the pressure too.
Another difference is the Falcons are still tweaking their team to improve it. The Hawks have just been re-upping the same guys hoping for better results.
Oh, and under what rock have you been living that you think Ryan’s gotten a pass? He’s been criticized since the Falcons drafted him just because he’s not Mike Vick.
Also, it’s a little bit easier to win a playoff game in the NBA, considering each round of the playoffs is best of 7 instead of a single elimination.
tc
February 20th, 2011
8:00 pm
Keep Josh and Al, everyone else can go. Those two are the best two players and have reasonable contracts. JJ will be a cancer that can never live up to his contact.I would look into trading any of the other players we have.
Tweets that mention Hawks' Sund puts onus on players: 'Challenge is up to them' | Jeff Schultz -- Topsy.com
February 20th, 2011
8:39 pm
[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Reggie Mickles, Gilley and David McKinney, Jeff Schultz. Jeff Schultz said: Posted: #Hawks Rick Sund puts onus on players to step up in playoff run. http://bit.ly/ecMOQH [...]
Tweets that mention Hawks' Sund puts onus on players: 'Challenge is up to them' | Jeff Schultz -- Topsy.com
February 20th, 2011
8:44 pm
[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by treyjarrard and Kevin Slocum, Jeff Schultz. Jeff Schultz said: Hawks’ Sund puts onus on players: ‘Challenge is up to them’ http://bit.ly/h2dBXw [...]
Smiling Jack
February 20th, 2011
8:46 pm
Very good GT Alum…Sportsgirl is trying to compare apples to oranges..basketball to football just doesn’t match up in any way. As for the Hawks, why doesn’t some one organize these AJC Bloggers to come up with a community owned basketball team. We have gneral managers, managers and probably some players on this blog who can do far better than the present Hawks organization.
nd
February 20th, 2011
8:57 pm
Schultzie – I gotta agree with you. Bibby needs to be coming off the bench. His 3 and spot up jump shots are a great asset to have late in a game, but he can’t be depended upon to keep someone in front of him and keep the pace of the game high. I love Josh, but I fear that he will NEVER mature. I know he’s doing much better as far as 3 point percentage, but he needs to be AGGRESSIVE and ATTACK the basket – not settle for jumpers. I fear his head just isn’t in the game and whines too much. Marvin, oh Marvin. Where’s the passion, man? Attack, rebound, hustle!
Insert Teague into line-up and Bibby to come off the bench for needed firepower and late game situations. Move JC1 while he has value. I seriously hope that we don’t plan on re-signing him next year. Why not move him and get something of value? Sorry to say it, gotta move Smoove too. Getting a center would be preferred.
sportsgirl
February 20th, 2011
9:00 pm
at the end of the day the falcons still haven’t won a playoff game period. I still say the Falcons get a pass it is what it is
merbertmoover
February 20th, 2011
9:08 pm
them hawks goin “hey hey!”
merbertmoover
February 20th, 2011
9:10 pm
and sportsgirl, you be stupid girl! hawks and falcons, they like cousins, both flappin their wings and stuff, goin “swoosh swoosh” you know what im sayin?
doc
February 20th, 2011
9:19 pm
jeff, dont you still chuckle at the we have arrived comment from one of the asg chieftains three years back. imposters all at the top.
Rozeman13
February 20th, 2011
9:26 pm
sportsgirl shouldnt you be changing a diaper or washing the dishes
sportsgirl
February 20th, 2011
9:37 pm
@Rozeman no your I told your mom to after she finished scrubbing the floor
Ted Striker
February 20th, 2011
9:43 pm
Excellent column.
dap01
February 20th, 2011
9:56 pm
The players can not help that they are the most poorly constructed team in the NBA. Sund is a horrible GM. We have 2 very good SG’s, 2 very good pf’s, an average SF and the NBA worst at PG.
Yet we have a GM that says, we like our core. He is full of crap.
James
February 20th, 2011
9:57 pm
The Hawks need to call Denver up and make a offer to get Carmelo.
Atlanta gets: Carmelo Anthony, J.R. Smith & Chauncey Billups
Denver gets: Josh Smith, Jamal Crawford & Jeff Teaque
Rozeman13
February 20th, 2011
9:58 pm
sportsgirl i think you need to go to bed so you can make the bus to school in the morning. You need to make that english class so you can learn to write a proper sentence while under pressure———————————————————————————————————–
Najeh Davenpoop
February 20th, 2011
11:34 pm
“it’s a little bit easier to win a playoff game in the NBA, considering each round of the playoffs is best of 7 instead of a single elimination.”
The equivalent of winning a playoff game in the NFL is winning a playoff series in the NBA, since it gets you to the next round. The Hawks have done that each of the last two seasons.
Ted Striker
February 20th, 2011
11:42 pm
Roseman13 — There is no street cred for insulting a (potentially hot) woman on a sports blog.
Ted Striker
February 20th, 2011
11:51 pm
Naj — Always enjoy reading your comments.
Miles D
February 21st, 2011
12:41 am
A trade, specifically for Nash, would be nice! But lets face it the Hawks ain’t gon do nothin! Now what really needs to happen is for LD to stop handcuffing Teague and let him play! The only way he is going to learn is by getting extensive minutes! I’ve noticed that when Teague is in the game and makes a mistake coach takes him right out! But he lets other guys that are veterans repeatedly make poor decisions without reprecussions. And that says alot about who’s the boss of the team he’s the coach but not all that respected! LD needs to take a stand and start demanding the vets to have accountablility by sitting them when they screw up! At least with Teague or JC2 he can coach them up..but for veterans that are making way to many mistakes something needs to be done to get their attention! With Teague and JC2 they are still young! Noone else on the team can claim that at this stage! So LD needs to take a stand or get ready to go back to being just an assistant cause he is going to lose his job if he continues to allow this to happen. He always says the right things and makes all these threats but never makes good on any of them. So, just as he is learning to be a head coach his young players are learning how to be pros. Til he learns that…same song! LET’S GO HAWKS!!!
JSS
February 21st, 2011
12:43 am
Sign Carmelo Anthony? This team can not even get journeymen players to sign for mid level exemptions… Sund has as much egg on his face as anyone…
Bob Pettit
February 21st, 2011
1:18 am
[...] topped his All-Star high of 31 points set in the 2002 and 2007 games. MVP: Bryant puts on a show atBob Pettit – Bryant won his fourth All-Star MVP award, Tying the record of Hall of Famer Bob Pettit. Also [...]
MELO!
February 21st, 2011
1:25 am
The hawks need to break the bank and get Melo—-his agent wants $65 million for 3 years, which is a bargain. That’s less than they are paying the mediocre joe johnson who got a max contract. Melo will bring the fans back and the hawks can jack up prices of tickets and stuff to pay for all those millions.
FACTS
February 21st, 2011
3:35 am
Gotta get up very early to travel to FLA, Sund is doing what every couch potato is doing absolutely nothing, but getting paid for it!
Winnipeg, Canada
February 21st, 2011
7:35 am
`
. . . . . To blow the sucker up is the best idea.
Lum
February 21st, 2011
8:39 am
Hurry baseball, hurry! There’s not two people in ten who give a rip for the NBA.
JSS
February 21st, 2011
10:02 am
@ Jeff Schultz…
Did you miss you the extra “i’s” in “Driiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiive by Hawks Blog?”
I gave you a little credit for more lines… I swear I’m going to Jib-Jab a scene from ‘Boys N Da Hood’ one day about the Perils of the ASG…
aizdaman
February 21st, 2011
10:22 am
What would you rather have the hawks win 45-50 games for the next 5 years with Joe, Marvin,Josh Horford, an average pg and a quality bench then rebuild be in the lottery for the next 5 years get lucky and get 2 picks right and have 3 busts and win 25-30 games a year. Which one would you want
DawgBoi
February 21st, 2011
10:45 am
any way Sund can con the Lakers into this trade..
I think it would help both teams..haha
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=6aay85s
JeJe
February 21st, 2011
10:49 am
Worst starting PG in the NBA and there is a handful of team with 2nd and 3rd PGs FAR better than Bibby
Our coach plays Bibby HUGE minutes even against backup PGs
No Center
Josh Smith who tries half the time
Joe who goes to sleep half the time
Jamal who doesn’t show up half the time.
Great team, Sund!
The guy has made 1 move of any significance in 3 years with this team. Wow
JeJe
February 21st, 2011
11:10 am
Note how the players and coaches never mention WINNING A CHAMPIONSHIP as a goal for this team. It’s always “we know what we can do” or “we have goals” even though we never actually hear them. I’ve never heard anyone on this team mention winning a title
JeJe
February 21st, 2011
11:14 am
Our schedule the next 7 days or so is ridiculous.
After tomorrow’s obligatory 25 point thrashing to the Lakers (could be 15 if we come back in garbage minutes), we will go to Phoenix, where Vince will save his 35 point game for us.
smdh
JeJe
February 21st, 2011
11:22 am
WHY IS THERE ONLY TALK ABOUT GETTING SWEPT LAST YEAR? HOW ABOUT 2 YEARS AGO? WE DID NOTHING THESE LAST 2 YEARS. WE GOT SWEPT IN THE 2ND ROUND 2 YEARS IN A ROW
WHY DO WE STILL HAVE THIS SAME CORE?
SUND HAS SPENT 31 YEARS IN THIS LEAGUE STEALING PAYCHECKS AND FRAUDING THESE FRANCHISES OUT OF MONEY. WORST GM IN SPORTS HISTORY
Worse2First
February 21st, 2011
12:18 pm
Jeff Schultz has captured it all at this time. Management has patiently kept this core together to see how far it can take us. It is time for this assembled bunch to produce or Sund will have to engineer the significant changes that Larry Drew has been calling for.
Has anyone noticed how putrid JCrawford’s game has become? How far has our first draft pick progressed since being drafted? Give Teague a chance!
The Dude Abides
February 21st, 2011
12:20 pm
If this is true you can count me out of coming to playoff games. Empty Crowd.
ICECOLD
February 21st, 2011
12:54 pm
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/features/rumors?date=20110219&action=upsell&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba%2ffeatures%2frumors%3fdate%3d20110219
this is the best rumor i read .. it makes me so happy that at least its a rumor!!!! cuz he got to go!!! and get sessions, why not.. any change is a good change.. at least they showing him.. trade zaza and marvin for sessions.. or bibby and zaza.. but who ever u trade for, make sure zaza, or marvin is in those talks… please!!!!!
ICECOLD
February 21st, 2011
12:59 pm
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=62p9z53
this trade works!!!!
why would cleveland do it… I dont know…
why would the hawks do it…!!! It would make me so happy!!!
ICECOLD
February 21st, 2011
1:03 pm
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=6ysl5jk
this is a dream.. it gets rid of all the players who is trully inafective for the hawks.. and in return.. get some players that is decent bench players… and maybe two starters!!!
sessions and j.j hickson
ant banks
February 21st, 2011
1:05 pm
JEFF,
who is on the hawks scouting staff? someone reports back to the coaches and gm don’t they? acie law, sheldon williams, royal ivey, pape sy, cynk ankol, solomon jones, jeff teague, stoudamire…THE SCOUTS COULDN’T FIND ONE GEM? like san antonio found in GARY NEAL? THAT PAPE SY DEAL SHOULD GET SOMEONE FIRED
Jeff Schultz
February 21st, 2011
1:08 pm
Doc — Used to chuckle. Now I mostly find the whole thing sad.
Jeff Schultz
February 21st, 2011
1:08 pm
Ted Striker — Thank you.
Jeff Schultz
February 21st, 2011
1:09 pm
JSS — There’s a wealth of material there.
Jeff Schultz
February 21st, 2011
1:10 pm
Dawgboi — Short answer: No.
Jeff Schultz
February 21st, 2011
1:10 pm
Worse2First — Thanks. And yes, Jamal’s game has dropped off.
Jeff Schultz
February 21st, 2011
1:12 pm
Ant Banks — Scouts aside, in the end the GM makes decision. So any bad draft picks fall on Billy Knight (before) and Rick Sund (now).
The Dude Abides
February 21st, 2011
1:20 pm
Word is that Denver would trade Felton/Harris if the Melo deal gets done. Obviously need to get in on that u fn idiot Sund.
http://twitter.com/STEIN_LINE_HQ/status/39731477889417216#
W.R. Terrell
February 21st, 2011
1:25 pm
Mike Bibby continues to take a beating for the Hawks misfortune, as far as the point position, but there is reality in this particular scenario. Josh Smith really inhibits point guard play by bringing the ball up court. He can really screw up timing by not giving the ball up, folks need to look at that. It’s not all Bibby. Josh get a rebound and instead of giving the ball up he’s dribbling up court like he’s Michael Jordon or somebody and if you’ve paid any attention you know that it breaks down timing and flow of the game. Mike can only do so much because they won’t put a harness on the smoove. He is a major fault in Bibby’s ability to run the floor and so is ISO who bogs down ball movement. Stop blaming Mike, he can only do so much, afterall, he has sacrificed his game for ISO.
W.R. Terrell
February 21st, 2011
1:31 pm
Well I see folks continue to blame Mike Bibby for poor point guard play. Not all his fault, somebody need to tell the “SMOOVE” he is not Michael Jordon or Magic Johnson an his ass need to give the ball to the floor general which is Bibby, also, ISO needs to stop breaking down ball movement with all that damn dribbling. Bibby does his job when he can. Players are suppose to blockout, pic for each other and cut to the basket, if that was done like it is suppose to be then Mike Bibby will be fine.
Ken Strickland
February 21st, 2011
1:38 pm
There are obviosly differing opinions as to the cause of the problems that’s holding the Hawks back. Some feel it’s the result of playing AHorford at C, rather than his so called natural PF position, even though he’s earned 2 All Star selections at C. Some feel it’s JSmith, because of his attitude and willingness to shoot jumpers, even though he’s our most impactful player overall, has proven so far to be one of our better outside shooters, and plays 2 positions effectively, which allows us to change our starting lineup periodically.
Still others say it’s JJohnson, mainly because of his contract. However, his versatility, his DEF, ability to score, create assists, control the ball and the OFF, and in general his all around talent and ability, makes tolerating Bibby’s OFF/DEF limitations and lack of production possible. Then there’s MWilliams, who seems to be everyones whipping boy. While he is inconsistent, and tends to disappear at times, he’s certainly done enough, especially when there have been injuries, to show he can be a factor. All that is needed is a PG that’s able and/or willing to control the ball and the OFF, to keep him involved, or a HC that insists that his PG carries out that responsibility.
Finally, we come to the issue that I strongly support, and that’s the issue of almost no meaningful OFF/DEF production from the most important position on the team, PG. When your starting PG plays 30MPG on a team that’s proven to be good enough to win 50+gms, make the playoffs 3 consecutive yrs and advance to the 2nd rd 2 consecutive yrs, but ranks no better than 40th among NBA PG’s, that tells you 3 things.
1-You definitely have a liability at PG if he ranks no better than 40th, which means there are 10 backup PG’s providing more production.
2-The core of the team must be very talented if it can accomplish so much while compensating for what is a definite liability at such an position of importance.
3-An upgrade at PG would work wonders toward improving the overall production of this team and it’s players.
The problem that still remains is, will LDrew continue Woodson’s habit of:
1-having certain tolerances for certain players over certain others,
2-implimenting separate rules and expectations for certain preferred players over certain others.
3-making excuses to justify sticking with decisions and/or players that are clearly hurting the team, rather than admitting a mistake and committing to at least trying to find a potential solution.
Despite all this team has accomplished over the last 3 seasons, there are fans of teams like the Nets, Knicks, Pacers, 76ers, Bucks and Bulls, who are far more excited about their teams future than we are about ours, even though their teams haven’t come anywhere close to accomplishing what the Hawks have over that period. Those teams do have 2 noticable advantages over the Hawks, and that’s:
1-solid ownership and management,
2-solid and consistent PG production.
GoldenRetriever
February 21st, 2011
1:41 pm
I dont care what ANYONES assessment of the Hawks is. I know how good they can be when they play up to their potential. Whether anyone believes it or not, the Hawks are capable of winning the NBA title this season without making any additions or subtractions to the existing club. How do I know? I know based on what Ive seen from the athletism and the overall talent level. I’m not saying the Hawks are the most talented bunch in the league, what I am saying is that when they are playing their best basketball, they are almost unbeatable. I know thats true and maybe no one else has seen that. I think the hawks can win a championship this season, but only if they play together as a team and lockdown opponents on the defensive side of the basketball.
RayBud
February 21st, 2011
1:56 pm
@Ken Strickland…good job…you hit everything right on the nose. We all know that for the last 5-6yrs, the hawks have drafted a few point guards, yet it seems that none of them can develop. I thought teague would come in this year and provide the energy that the hawks would need, but for some odd reason, he can’t beat out bibby. I’m really believe that the coaches don’t trust the young guys. The only way we will know what he’s capable of is if he’s averaging 25-30 minutes a game, and not 5 minutes. Bibby is averaging numbers of a number 2 pg on a team, yet he’s the starter. I think its been time to give teague the ball and allow him to really run this team. If not, he’ll turn into an eventual bust, not to be seen/heard from again. As for Marvin Williams, we all know that he strived in college as a 6th man. I think he can do it now. They should have him and crawford coming off the bench. If the Hawks are to make a trade, and they want to get rid of Marvin, I would say package him with bibby and go after someone like ramon session/jj hickson….i know cleveland will be reluctant to give up hickson. i think they are a pg/big man away from being a serious threat to the NBA title. Other than that, we only have a team that will make it to the second round.
Air Zaza
February 21st, 2011
1:58 pm
Jeff, why is ASG so incompetent in your opinion?
You gave harsh and truthful reasoning to all teams and ownership groups in Atlanta but ASG might be one of the worst ran ownership groups in the NBA/NHL. I am to the point where I want to call Stern and get these imbeciles removed from ownership of any franchise in any sport.
Gearon is an idiot. The rest of them like Levenson and crew are idiots. They just don’t care. It’s okay, I will never give these idiots another second of my time. I am done with all ASG teams. I will just join the Melo bandwagon to any team he’s on. I wouldn’t be a bandwagon fan. I would just be a refugee seeking asylum.
Ken Strickland
February 21st, 2011
2:09 pm
WR TERRELL-Since the PG is the QB of the team and controls the ball and the OFF, wouldn’t you say it’s his responsibility to position his players, and call the appropriate plays that determines who takes the shot and from where? And wouldn’t you also say it’s the HC’s responsibility to make certain his PG carries out those responsibilities?
It’s revealing to see you singled out JSmith for criticism for even daring to think of himself in a positive way, by claiming he thinks he’s in MJordan or EJohnson league. But in the same breath, you, like so many of you BIBBY APOLOGIST, start making LAME, and what should be, embarrassing excuses for MBibby, like, “BIBBY DOES THE JOB WHEN HE CAN.”WOW!! And what does he do when he can’t do the job, FUNNEL, SET PICKS, PUT TREMENDOUS OFF/DEF PRESSURE ON HIS TEAMMATES, HURT THE TEAM?
The team is really starting to struggle, and we’re stuck with a PG that makes the players around him worse rather than better. He can’t even make himself better. However, it’s not Bibby’s fault. It’s the fault of stupid/stubborn HC who insists on ignoring the obvious, and continues to force Bibby into no win situations he can’t handle. The he comes out making one LAME EXCUSE after another trying to justify the unaceptable outcome. With no leadership at PG, or on he bench for that matter, it’s little wonder why JJ, Jamal and Smoove take a I don’t give a damn attitude and do as they please during the course of gms.
Braves' contract extension to Frank Wren well deserved | Jeff Schultz
February 21st, 2011
2:27 pm
[...] – Hawks’ Rick Sund puts onus on players: ‘Challenge is up to them’ [...]
HWJ
February 21st, 2011
2:30 pm
MAKE A TRADE this team will never make conference finals or nba finals with this team. Need a point guard and a center, which has been the case for 15 years. Al Horford is awesome but hes a pf in my opinion… Marvin needs to be traded
ICECOLD
February 21st, 2011
2:30 pm
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yzbhw8v
I just tried a straight up trade, mike bibby for derrick rose.. and they say the
Hawks will win 15 more games with derrick rose ..
But the funny thing is, they just said the bulls will win 3 more games …
That’s weird. I thought it was gon say -15 wins or something.
So you can’t trust the trade machine projected wins !!!!
Air Zaza
February 21st, 2011
2:40 pm
The way the Hawks system is a true PG is not needed but neither is one who is below average on his best nights and bad otherwise.
eric
February 21st, 2011
2:43 pm
Rumors have it that the Hawks have Marvin Williams on the block, and are looking to score a point guard. One name came up that I think the Hawks must do everything possible to make it happen, “Aaron Brooks”.
Mike
February 21st, 2011
2:52 pm
Aaron Brooks average 5.3 assist and 19.6 points per game last year, the guy is a beast!!! The numbers are only down this season because he’s just coming off injury, still close to 12 ppg. Got to take this guy over Ramon Sessions, plus he has playoff experience.
The Game Has Changed
February 21st, 2011
2:57 pm
@Eric- Man we could use Aaron Brooks. We could give them Teague and a couple of draft picks. Also, the Hawks need to start Marvin and shooting guard and put him in the post and start Joe at point. That would give us a more perimeter defense and two guards that could go inside and outside.
eric
February 21st, 2011
3:12 pm
@The Game Has Changed- I repeat Marvin Williams is on the block, meaning the Hawks are trying to shop him once again. It’s been reported that they put out an A P B for Marvin over the summer and no team in the N.B.A. would touch him or that big contract.
Buddy Grizzard
February 21st, 2011
3:26 pm
THAT PAPE SY DEAL SHOULD GET SOMEONE FIRED
And that someone is Rick Sund. Pape Sy was projected as a point guard, and he can’t bring the ball up against D-League defense.
Buddy Grizzard, President and Founder of The Rick Sund Glue Factory Committee
ShempHoward
February 21st, 2011
4:33 pm
THE HAWKS WILL WIN THE NBA TITLE THIS SEASON (GOLD TROPHY). HOPEFULLY IF IM NOT DREAMING, THAT SHOULD SILENCE ALL THE NAYSAYERS AND ALL THE UNBELIEVERS AND FAIR WEATHER FANS. SPUD WEBB WILL RETURN NEXT YEAR TO PLAY FOR THE HAWKS AND WILL ENTER THE SLAM DUNK CONTEST DURING ALL-STAR WEEKEND.
rocknblues81
February 21st, 2011
4:43 pm
I challenge Rick Sund to do his job. Something he hasn’t been doing since he became the GM. He is worse than Pete Babcock.
ag
February 21st, 2011
5:18 pm
Ken hit the nail on the head. I really think prior to making a trade for a pg, we should play Teague to see what we have. If Teague pans out, trade for an athletic big (Thabeet). Let Bibby finish the 4th quarters or come off the bench for those 3 point shots. I also agree with GoldenRetriever, sometimes the Hawks are the BEST team in the league. They are very athletic and look great. I think they faulter on defense and when they are not making their jumpers.
Puzzled
February 21st, 2011
5:45 pm
ag,
Hav you seen Thabeet play? If so, how would he improved the Hawks? He’s not ready yet. SHould have stayed at UCONN another year.
CONservative Johnson
February 21st, 2011
5:56 pm
Don’t blow it up. Sell it off to someone who gives a damn and will keep it here in ATL . . .
ag
February 21st, 2011
5:59 pm
We will not ask Thabeet to do much. Just rebound and block shots. He did that very well at UCONN. Memphis is ready to get rid of him and maybe they will take Marvin’s contract.
Big Ray
February 21st, 2011
6:21 pm
How nice for Rick Sund to find another way to say what he (and ownership) have been saying: “We’re sticking with our core.”
His “it’s on the team to show what they’re made of” statement is worthless. He should have said that last year, when we had the same dang team, basically.
All he changed was the coach. So if this team can’t do better than last year (and they won’t), then guess who really showed what they’re made of? Him. And his bosses.
Actually, scratch that. His bosses are too busy trying to sell teams and sue people, while Ted Turner gets more and more drunk every evening wondering why he pulled a Benedict Arnold on David McDavid (I guess Georgia boys just don’t like Texas boys).
So most of this comes down to Sund. He’s old, and he’s behind in the game. Time to move on, but the ASG won’t. They don’t know how.
JSS
February 21st, 2011
7:30 pm
@ Big Ray…
Sund’s last year of his contract, do you think he’s fishing for his next job elsewhere? Kinda like a back seat general?
hbcuclassics
February 21st, 2011
7:55 pm
For those who couldnt attend, Black College HOF induction ceremony:
http://www.hbcuclassics.com/hbcu_showcase
JUNE
February 21st, 2011
9:10 pm
Are you guys paying attention ???? Larry Drew 2nd Dropped out of school and will be a Hawk next season…..He is the Hawk point Guard of the Future……Sometime Next Year Josh Smith will be traded with Mike Bibby for a Big Man and the Hawks will be Battling the Miami Heat for the Eastern Conference Title
count_schemula
February 21st, 2011
11:10 pm
The coffee guy at the Starbucks at the Phoenix airport asked me where I was travelling to. I said Atlanta. He said, “oh yeah, the Hawks. Joe Johnson!” I was like, “nah.” He was slightly taken aback, and then he offered, oh yeah, Josh Smith! I was like “nah.” Puzzled, I had to step-in, “if this team EVER wins anything, it will be all about Al Horford.” I do believe that and if we have to trade Josh Smith and Marvin to blow this mutha up, let’s do it.
JSS
February 21st, 2011
11:33 pm
That is crazy talk, he (Horford) is the key cog in terms of spirit and consistent force of action. But Horford alone is like Kevin Willis in his prime. You can appreciate the effort and the return but in the long run, you need that something extra… You might not get that from Joe because of his mental make-up. However, the days of piling on Josh Smith should have ended after he came in this season and has done everything asked of him (the jumpers come with the territory). He is not 2007 Josh Smith…
Big Ray
February 22nd, 2011
12:31 am
JSS ,
Hard to say. I think Sund kinda knew what he was getting into when he came here, and liked it just fine. The ASG has no reason to cut him loose, but like BK, he could walk if he’s not liking how things are going. Again, I think he’s just fine with doing things the way the ASG wants them done. They don’t encourage or demand creative thinking. They just want a banker (someone who won’t take risks, and won’t overspend their money). Well, they got one.
Billy Knight left because he had a creative mind (though a bit of a strange one). There is no place for such a thing amongst this organization.
Hawks move past the break | Atlanta Hawks: Fan Nest
February 22nd, 2011
1:15 am
[...] Sund’s challenge to the players certainly isn’t of Mark Cuban-like proportions. In fact, it sounds more like a challenge to [...]
Buddy Grizzard
February 22nd, 2011
1:25 am
Ken hit the nail on the head. I really think prior to making a trade for a pg, we should play Teague to see what we have. – ag
The voice of reason… how stupid will the Hawks look if they trade Teague without playing him starter’s minutes first and then he flourishes elsewhere.
Are you guys paying attention ???? Larry Drew 2nd Dropped out of school and will be a Hawk next season…..He is the Hawk point Guard of the Future – June
LOL maybe this is what Larry Drew, Sr., has in mind, but Jr. quit on his team mid season after losing his starting job.
count_schemula
February 22nd, 2011
2:27 am
Obviously Horford is not Kobe, or the one guy to score 60 on the playoffs, but he is the heart and soul. After the playoffs last year, I can’t believe we gave JJ max money and I would rather trade him, but we are stuck with him now. I’m glad to hear that this J Smoov is not that J Smoov (hotheaded crybaby) but I assume he is the only real thing we have to trade. Nobody would want Marvin. JJ already showed what kind of a leader he was when he shrank like a weenie in cold water in the playoffs and externalized it on the fans. Horford elevates the team. That what I guess I really meant. He has championship experience and a winners heard and head that goes beyond his stats.
Carmelo Anthony goes to New York -- will Hawks respond? | Jeff Schultz
February 22nd, 2011
9:29 am
[...] This gets back to what we discussed the other day. If the Johnson-Horford-Smith core doesn’t made significant progress in the playoffs, it will be time to make a change. [...]
dire straits
February 22nd, 2011
12:25 pm
This team is f-ed up. Should have traded al already for some one who can defend the paint. Al wont and cant. This team has been backsliding since they let woodson go. Fans support is down and we really dont care anymore
ShempHoward
February 22nd, 2011
12:59 pm
For the life of me I cant understand why the fans dont trust the Hawks more than they do. If you didnt know any better you would think that most fans believe the Hawks blew it by not getting Carmello Anthony. Look we dont need mello yello; we dont need starvin marvin either; what we need if for the Hawks fans to rally around what we have because the Hawks are about to deliver the first world championship to Atlanta in so many years since super Lou Hudson brought us the gold back in the day. THE HAWKS ARE THE BEST TEAM IN THE NBA AND I AM EXPECTING NO LESS THAN A GOLD TROPHY FROM THEM THIS YEAR.
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4:59 am
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